Johnson swaps out House Intel chair for Trump loyalist, raising national security concerns

Summary

Episode Summary: "Johnson swaps out House Intel chair for Trump loyalist, raising national security concerns"

Release Date: January 17, 2025
Podcast: Trumpland with Alex Wagner
Host: Alex Wagner, MSNBC

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Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of "Trumpland with Alex Wagner," host Alex Wagner delves deep into the recent political upheavals surrounding the House Intelligence Committee. The episode explores the implications of Speaker Mike Johnson's decision to remove Chairman Mike Turner and appoint Rick Crawford, a Trump loyalist, raising significant national security and democratic concerns. Additionally, the episode covers the settlement reached by Rudy Giuliani with Georgia election workers and the ongoing struggles of migrant shelters in New York City amidst the incoming Trump administration.

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1. Purge of House Intelligence Committee Chair

Overview: The episode begins with the shocking removal of Mike Turner, the Chair of the House Intelligence Committee, by Speaker Mike Johnson. This move is perceived as a direct response to concerns over Turner’s handling of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago and his vocal support for Ukraine—a stance that clashes with President Trump's interests.

Key Points:

• Speaker Johnson's Justification: Officially, Johnson claims the removal is unrelated to President Trump. However, Turner indicates otherwise, citing concerns about his actions at Mar-a-Lago as the primary reason (Timestamp: [20:02]).

• Appointment of Rick Crawford: Rick Crawford, known for his staunch support of Trump, replaces Turner, signaling a potential shift in the committee's direction towards aligning more closely with the President's agenda (Timestamp: [25:25]).

• Democratic and Republican Reactions: Democrats on the committee are outraged, viewing the move as a purge aimed at silencing dissent and ensuring compliance with Trump’s directives. Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthy emphasizes the danger of allowing a few wealthy individuals to influence legislative decisions (Timestamp: [21:11]).

Notable Quotes:

• Stephanie Ruhl: "Rich people have always gone to inaugurations... but this is different. Elon Musk might have an office in the Eisenhower." (Timestamp: [07:00])

• Raja Krishnamoorthy: "This was meant to purge him for not only what you talked about in your setup piece, but also his vocal advocacy for Ukraine." (Timestamp: [21:11])

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2. Settlement of Rudy Giuliani with Georgia Election Workers

Overview: The episode shifts focus to Rudy Giuliani's recent settlement with Georgia election workers Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss. After years of legal battles and delaying tactics, Giuliani agrees to a settlement without admitting liability, allowing him to retain his properties and personal assets.

Key Points:

• Settlement Details: Giuliani settles for an undisclosed sum, retaining his Upper East Side apartment, Florida condo, World Series rings, and other personal belongings (Timestamp: [28:09]).

• Implications of the Settlement: Analysts question the source of the funds, suggesting that support from affluent allies within Trump’s circle may have facilitated the settlement. There are concerns about the ethical implications and potential influence from billionaire donors (Timestamp: [31:22]).

• Donald Trump's Involvement: President Trump publicly supports Giuliani, tweeting "SAVE RUDY," raising questions about possible financial backing from oligarchs seeking favor with the incoming administration (Timestamp: [31:35]).

Notable Quotes:

• Paola Ramos: "It's likely that the women agreed to accept a whole lot less than $145.9 million, but in exchange for the certainty that Giuliani would stop appealing the verdict." (Timestamp: [30:25])

• Tim Miller: "When the collective net worth of three people on the inauguration dais is close to a trillion dollars, $145 million for defamation payments seems like a drop in the bucket." (Timestamp: [33:03])

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3. National Security Concerns and Influence of Tech Billionaires

Overview: A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing the influence of tech billionaires—Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, and Mark Zuckerberg—who are poised to attend Donald Trump's inauguration. Their vast wealth and control over major information platforms raise alarms about the concentration of power and potential impacts on national security.

Key Points:

• Washington Post's Shift: Under Jeff Bezos, the Washington Post is reorienting its mission towards "riveting storytelling for all of America," aiming to expand its audience among blue-collar Americans and conservatives. This change has sparked internal dissent among journalists (Timestamp: [01:43]).

• Concentration of Wealth and Power: The collective wealth of the attending billionaires exceeds $900 billion, giving them unprecedented influence over political and social narratives. Their alignment with Trump could shape policies on AI, communications, and space exploration (Timestamp: [05:53]).

• Democratic Concerns: Democrats fear that this alliance represents a move towards an oligarchic system where a few ultra-wealthy individuals can dictate national policies, undermining democratic institutions and accountability (Timestamp: [05:30]).

Notable Quotes:

• Stephanie Ruhl: "Artificial intelligence is going to change every element of the way that we live in the next decade... Rich people have always gone to inaugurations, but this is different." (Timestamp: [07:00], [08:48])

• Tim Miller: "This literally threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms." (Timestamp: [05:53])

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4. Migrant Shelters and Trump's Deportation Policies

Overview: The episode highlights the challenges faced by migrant shelters in New York City, particularly focusing on Floyd Bennett Field—a decommissioned airfield turned migrant shelter. As Trump prepares to return to the White House, concerns about mass deportations and the safety of migrants in sanctuary cities are escalating.

Key Points:

• Closure of Floyd Bennett Field: The shelter, housing over 2,000 migrant families, was shut down due to its location on federal land, making it susceptible to Trump’s promised mass deportations (Timestamp: [34:43]).

• Emotional Toll on Migrants: Migrant families, like that of Jason Gonzalez from Venezuela, face uncertainty and fear of family separation under the new administration. Children are particularly vulnerable, carrying asylum papers to school for protection (Timestamp: [41:07]).

• Community Response: Local volunteers and organizations are striving to protect migrant families, pushing for safer shelters and highlighting the moral and ethical dilemmas faced by sanctuary cities in the face of shifting federal policies (Timestamp: [38:27]).

Notable Quotes:

• Chris Hayes: "We are about to see a Trump administration that's not just empowered, but will be completely emboldened." (Timestamp: [43:09])

• Paola Ramos: "There is no shortage of American oligarchs who are trying to curry favor with Donald Trump even as we speak." (Timestamp: [33:23])

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5. Conclusion and Future Implications

As the episode wraps up, Alex Wagner emphasizes the critical juncture at which the United States stands. The consolidation of power among a select group of billionaires aligned with President Trump poses profound questions about the future of democracy, national security, and civil liberties. The episode calls for vigilant public discourse and democratic engagement to counterbalance these developments.

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Key Takeaways

• Political Maneuvering: The removal of House Intelligence Committee Chair Mike Turner by Speaker Mike Johnson underlines the increasing influence of President Trump over congressional decisions.

• Oligarchy Concerns: The alignment of top tech billionaires with Trump highlights fears of an oligarchic shift, potentially undermining democratic institutions and transparency.

• Legal and Ethical Issues: Rudy Giuliani’s settlement without admitting wrongdoing raises questions about the influence and resources backing Trump allies.

• Human Impact: Migrant families in sanctuary cities are facing heightened fears of deportation and family separation, spotlighting the human cost of political strategies.

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Notable Quotes with Attribution

• Stephanie Ruhl:

  • "[...] the pendulum is set to swing back somewhat." (Timestamp: [14:23])
  • "The level they're taking this to is simply too far." (Timestamp: [13:52])

• Raja Krishnamoorthy:

  • "I think that this was meant to purge Mike Turner, but it was meant to send a signal to other Republicans throughout the House." (Timestamp: [24:17])

• Paola Ramos:

  • "It's likely that the women agreed to accept a whole lot less than $145.9 million, but in exchange for the certainty that Giuliani would stop appealing the verdict." (Timestamp: [30:25])

• Tim Miller:

  • "This literally threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms." (Timestamp: [05:53])
  • "When the collective net worth of three people on the inauguration dais is close to a trillion dollars, $145 million for defamation payments seems like a drop in the bucket." (Timestamp: [33:03])

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the critical discussions and insights from the episode, providing listeners with a clear understanding of the intricate political dynamics and their broader implications on national security and democratic integrity.

Transcript

[Rachel Maddow]

Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts New episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows now ad free plus ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News and all MSNBC original podcasts are available ad free and with bonus content including why Is this Happening? Felshey Band Book Club and more. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple podcasts. The first 100 days bills are passed, executive orders are signed and presidencies are defined. And for Donald Trump's first 100 days, Rachel Maddow is on MSNBC five nights a week.

[Chris Hayes]

Now is the time, so we're gonna do it.

[Rachel Maddow]

Providing her unique insight and analysis during this critical time.

[Tim Miller]

How do we strategically align ourselves to this moment of information, this moment of.

[Stephanie Ruhl]

Transition in our country?

[Rachel Maddow]

The Rachel Maddow show, weeknights at 9pm Eastern on MSNBC.

[Tim Miller]

It was 2016, and Donald Trump had just become the presumptive Republican nominee for president, and the owner of one of America's biggest newspapers was explaining to the world why he bought that newspaper in the first place.

[Lisa Rubin]

I've always believed, and I think a lot of I know it's a rare, it's not a rare belief. I think a lot of us believe this, that democracy dies in darkness, that certain institutions have a very important role in making sure that there is light. And I think the Washington Post has a seat, an important seat to do that because we happen to be located here in the capital city of the United States of America.

[Tim Miller]

Democracy dies in darkness. Those words officially became the Washington Post's slogan in 2017. There was little ambiguity about its meeting. The Post saw itself as a force that would hold truth to power and shine a light on corruption in Washington, where a notoriously corrupt billionaire had just entered office. By 2019, the post was running an ad during the super bowl claiming that the nation was threatened and that journalism would help keep us free. That is what democracy dies in darkness was supposed to mean. Now, today, that is still technically the paper slogan, but there is a whole lot more ambiguity. This week, executives at the Washington Post, again owned by Jeff Bezos, announced that the paper was releasing a new mission statement to guide its journalism. And that mission statement riveting storytelling for all of America. Riveting storytelling for all of America. Here's how the New York Times describes the Post's new mission. Mr. Bezos has expressed hopes that the Post would be read by more Bloomberg blue collar Americans who live outside coastal cities. He has also said that he is interested in expanding the Post's audience among conservatives. Now, to be clear, an effort to reach a bigger audience is not necessarily nefarious. But this all seems to be part of a broader reorientation of the Washington Post. As proof of that, also this week, a group of more than 400 journalists at the post sent Mr. Bezos an open letter citing their concerns about the emerging editorial direction of the paper. All of that Post turmoil is happening amid really an unprecedented effort by Bezos and other billionaires to flatter the same man. Many of these journalists, many of these same journalists and businessmen once thought needed to be held accountable. This week we learned that Donald Trump's inauguration will be attended by a posse of some of the world's richest men. Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Mark Zuckerberg will all be in attendance, along with OpenAI CEO Sam Altman and TikTok CEO Sho Chiu. Many of those same billionaires have lavished Trump with seven figure donations. Just for context, here was the scene at Trump's first inauguration, hopefully annotated by the New York Times. A handful of America's elites were certainly in attendance then as well. People like Republican megadonors Sheldon and Miriam Adelson, industry titan Carl Icahn, oil and gas magnate Harold Ham, and financier Louis Eisenberg. But for the most part, those were all people who had either spent decades in Republican politics or were longtime friends of the Trumps or were said to be members of the incoming Trump administration. And none of them came close to matching the net worth of the tech billionaires who were set to attend Trump's second inauguration. A group whose collective wealth is nearly $900 billion, that is billion with a B, and also happens to be greater than the GDP of most nations on this planet. But concentrated wealth isn't the only thing that gives Trump's new billionaire boys club unprecedented power. That same handful of billionaires also maintains an oligopoly over America's information ecosystem, controlling nearly every major social media platform in this country. Monday's inauguration will be a striking symbol not just of the concentration of power in America, but how that concentrated power has so quickly rushed to align itself with an autocratically inclined President Elect. Last night, in his final address to the nation, President Biden issued a dire warning. I want to warn the country of.

[Stephanie Ruhl]

Some things that give me great concern. This is a dangerous and that's the dangerous concentration of power in the hands of a very few ultra wealthy people. The dangerous consequences if their abuse of power is left unchecked. Today, an oligarchy is taking shape in America of extreme wealth, power and influence.

[Tim Miller]

That literally threatens our entire democracy, our basic rights and freedoms.

[Stephanie Ruhl]

And a fair shot for everyone to get ahead.

[Tim Miller]

President Biden went on to warn about what he called a new tech industrial complex, citing the rise of misinformation, an institutional disregard for facts and the crumbling of a free press. And all of it at the hands of a few wealthy billionaires. It could not be more clear that the people Biden was warning the country about are the very people who will be standing behind Donald Trump on that inaugural stage in just four days time. Joining me now are Tim Miller, host of the Bulwark Podcast, and the great, just inimitable Stephanie Ruhl, host of the eleventh Hour. It's great to have you both here. Steph, thank you for coming in early, I guess. Well, to set not work. First off, the relationship here between Donald Trump and the business world, specifically these tech CEOs, I mean, this is just. I love looking at that inaugural photo from 2016 because it's a new day. Can you talk about how the relationship between the tech world and Trump world has changed in the intervening nine years?

[Stephanie Ruhl]

Well, we have to be clear. There's huge money in all politics. Right?

[Tim Miller]

Right.

[Stephanie Ruhl]

Kamala Harris raised just under a gazillion dollars for her campaign. So that's. But we have to take all of this back to the Citizens United decision. So we wonder what's going on now. What we're looking at is unlimited corporate dollars in politics and we're seeing it come to fruition. So think about these specific people, the three richest men in the world. You've got Jeff Bezos, you've got Elon Musk, you've got Mark Zuckerberg. Right. They are not just, yeah, you know, we gotta play ball. We wanna do business with the president. That makes sense for their businesses. But think about what they care about. Artificial intelligence, communications, government contracts, obviously space exploration. The businesses that they are in require so much regulation. And the influence they can have in the next four years is so enormous that these guys could end up with more zeros next to their names than you or I can count. So right now it's the American people that have to say, are my lawmakers making decisions for me or these people? Think about the fact that Facebook in just a few months has a huge FTC trial coming up. Is that going to happen? Is it going to disappear? They have issues with foreign governments. Could Donald Trump help them with that? We all need to collectively pay attention to that. Rich people have always gone to inaugurations. They have always spent their time trying to get direct lines into White Houses. That's true of every president and every rich person out there forever. But this, this having not just a bat phone that you can call directly to the President, that Elon Musk might have an office in the Eisenhower. Pay attention, boys and girls.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, and they wield enormous influence. Right. This isn't just rich people who have, you know, lucrative companies. These are people who control the spread of information and misinformation in America.

[Stephanie Ruhl]

Alex, artificial intelligence is going to change every element of the way that we live in the next decade. How it is regulated will mean everything. And do you actually think that Donald Trump has a huge position on AI? He absolutely does not. But imagine that these three people. They sure do, Tim.

[Tim Miller]

It's, you know, I think taking into account everything that Steph outlines, there's also this strange sort of cultural handshake between what is this new kind of anti woke tech bro culture, most recently iterated by Mark Zuckerberg, his strange curly hair, gold chain and like newly masculine identity. I guess I find it a weirdly uneasy relationship. Right. Like Mark Zuckerberg says, masculine culture has been eradicated from C suites. We need to bring it back. The cancel culture, the wokeness, the PC, blah blah, blah. The diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives. Let us remind the country that this is a bunch of wealthy coastal tech elites who have somehow now found a home in the party of Donald Trump's blue collar, you know, the party of Steve Bannon. I wonder how awkward you feel this alliance is or whether it's built to last.

[Lisa Rubin]

Well, a lot there. I want to start by just saying I'm so happy to be on with Steph because I needed a laugh this week thinking about the darkness of these guys taking over the government and Steph talking about how she finds her herself, more masculine than the madeover Mark Zuckerberg, more masculine energy to set than he is. I didn't see a lie in there. So anyway, I just, I appreciate that. I'm glad we're on together. Do a little cultural analysis as well. But as far as the politics of this, honestly, in seriousness, the fact that these guys seem red pilled.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Lisa Rubin]

Is makes this all even more alarming. Right. To Steph's point, it's not a new story, right. That rich people try to cozy up to government officials because they want to get a good deal. Right. There's, you know, certain levels of this that are acceptable or normal. There's some, some that are corrupt or over the Top right. And we can, we can hash all that out. There's some of that happening here, and there's certainly going to be some corruption. But the fact that these three in particular, but, but a handful of other powerful men around them have not only cozied up to Trump, have not only got their claws in him, have. Are not only gonna have influence over as definitely out AI and all these other extremely, you know, elements our society, the monetary system, crypto. Like, on top of that, it seems like. I almost wish it was fake. I. It seems like many of them are genuine about it, and they, they are happy to have this moment that they can take out all of their grievances against the media and against the, the, you know, HR people and against the people that have complained that are their underlings at their, their companies. And now they just get to be their worst selves and, and they can let their worst selves run free across our biggest communic. To me, that makes this even more alarming than just the corruption element of it.

[Tim Miller]

Can you talk to that, Steph? Because Marc Andreessen has been out there basically talking about his vocalizing, his disgust at the left, how they demand you donate all your money at the end of your life, your money that you've worked so hard to amass, that you're being publicly shamed for wanting to be a capitalist, essentially. Have you sensed in the last, let's call it, 10 years that. That there was this bubbling insurrection coming from the tech world, from the business world, that the Democrats didn't have their ear to the ground enough, I guess, to understand the resentment that was building that seems to have found a house in Donald Trump's MAGA world.

[Stephanie Ruhl]

I think it's more than just Donald Trump's MAGA world. I think you could talk to a lot of people in Fortune 500 companies, people in C Suites, and definitely labor in the last four years got a lot more power, right?

[Chris Hayes]

Most.

[Stephanie Ruhl]

Not most. Most CEOs that I speak to in the last four years sure as hell their employees to come back five days a week. Right? That's not a surprise. We work at a company that would certainly like its employees to come back five days a week. But. But we also know that, I mean, to the office, they're done with work from home. And while lots of companies say yes, diversity, equity, inclusion, they're really happy about it. However many CEOs not, these guys would say it became something we were talking about every possible minute. That's exhausting. But the level that they are taking us to is nonsense. Yesterday the FT had this article. This one was really about Wall Street. Wall street is excited for this new business environment under Donald Trump. And there's business reasons why they feel good about it, right? The Fortune 500 world did not like Lina Khan. They didn't feel good about Gary Gensler. They didn't feel like America was open for business. However, there was a quote in the FT article from a very brave anonymous senior banker who said, finally we get to we can start using the R word and the P word in the office. It's a new dawn.

[Tim Miller]

Right?

[Stephanie Ruhl]

Well, my message to that very brave and very bold banker who is anonymous.

[Tim Miller]

Give me a break, right?

[Stephanie Ruhl]

No, none of that. That is not coming back to any company in America. No company that respects itself. And it's not that there's a dying need that we want to get back to misogyny. That's just stupidity. So the level they're taking this to is simply too far. But yes, the pendulum is set to swing back somewhat. Lots of people feel like, you know what, we got too worked up about things. I'm not going to say the word woke because I think that's silly, but there is an element of it. But where they are, it makes no sense.

[Tim Miller]

It's somewhere else.

[Stephanie Ruhl]

Yes.

[Tim Miller]

You know, I wonder, Tim, when we talk about like Trump wrote it back into office on this populist message, right? And it's like glaringly obvious. It's been announced that the people on the dais with him on January 20th are going to be the three richest people and among the richest people in the country, in the world, right? Like it is not a secret that days or maybe a few weeks after he is inaugurated, Trump is going to enact tax cuts that benefit the ultra wealthy. How have Democrats not figured out that this should be an integral part of the messaging in 2020?

[Stephanie Ruhl]

Candice, can I just remind you, across the street is Radio City Music Hall. Joe Biden threw a fundraiser there that was 50 grand a ticket. And the Trump campaign lit itself on fire over the elitism. And now look who is going to the inauguration. The CEO of TikTok, a Chinese owned company. This guy is going to be sitting right behind Trump. And two weeks ago, both Joe Biden and Donald Trump said a Japanese company can't buy U.S. steel. We're living in a topsy turvy world.

[Tim Miller]

Tim, do you feel like there is an opportunity here to unveil the real focus of the Trump administration, at least in terms of what we understand to be Trump's personal priorities, which is the amassing and retention of wealth at the very top of American society.

[Lisa Rubin]

Yeah. Is the forgotten man not gonna be there on the dais? They don't have any random people from Harlan, Kentucky, you know, on the dais there? I guess not. Obviously. Like, like this is the rubber's gonna meet the road on this. We're already seeing this in the Musk and Bannon feud. The question is where and how. And I think the Democrats are learning the political potential salience here. And the fact that the president's farewell speech last night was talking about the oligarch class, like that was not part of the message during the campaign. So it's not to relitigate the campaign, but you can see the change already happening, you know, during this brief transition, transition period. So I think that is going to be a wedge that the Democrats have to, you know, try to drive here. I think that gonna have a halo effect for a little while, for about 100 days or so. And I think it'll be important for the opposition to make sure everybody knows in big flashing lights that it's the richest people in the world that are getting what they want out of this administration, not the people in the hollowed out community of Springfield.

[Tim Miller]

Do you think Elon Musk holds the Bible for Trump? I'm saying that facetiously, but really, really.

[Stephanie Ruhl]

We'Ll soon find out.

[Tim Miller]

We sure will. Tim Miller, Stephanie Ruhl, my friends, my colleague, thank you guys both for joining me this Thursday night. Appreciate you. Coming up, Rudy Giuliani agrees to a settlement in his defamation lawsuit with Georgia election workers without giving up any of his real estate or fancy jewels. Where exactly did the cash strapped former mayor get the funds? We're going to discuss that. But first, the purge is on. The Republican chairman of the House Intelligence Committee is stripped of his position because he was not MAGA enough. We will talk to a member of the committee who spoke with the ousted chair coming right up next. Stay with us.

[Rachel Maddow]

Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. New episodes of all your favorite MSNBC shows Now, ad free + ad free listening to all of Rachel Maddow's original series, Ultra Bagman and Deja News and all MSNBC original podcasts are available ad free and with bonus content including why is this Happening? Felshi Band Book Club and more. Subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts. Get all of Rachel Maddow's original chart topping podcast series in one place with Rachel Maddow Presents Binge the entire Bagman series seasons one and two of Ultra and every episode of Deja News, along with all of Rachel Maddow's new podcasts to come. These are untold stories of our country's past that could help us understand the state of our country today. Search for Rachel Maddow Presents and follow to listen now. For ad free listening, subscribe to MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

[Tim Miller]

Hey everyone, it's Chris Hayes. This week on my podcast, why Is this Happening? We're sharing the first chapter of my new book, the Sirens, how Attention Became the World's Most Endangered Resource.

[Rachel Maddow]

To live at this moment in the.

[Lisa Rubin]

World, both online and off, is to find oneself endlessly wriggling on the mast.

[Tim Miller]

Fighting for control of her very being.

[Lisa Rubin]

Against the ceaseless siren calls of the.

[Raja Krishnamoorthy]

People and devices and corporations and malevolent.

[Tim Miller]

Actors trying to trap it. That's this week on why Is this Happening?

[Raja Krishnamoorthy]

Search for why is this Happening? Wherever you're listening right now and follow.

[Lisa Rubin]

You care about national security.

[Tim Miller]

When you saw the insecure way those.

[Lisa Rubin]

Documents were stored at Mar A Lago.

[Tim Miller]

Did it make your stomach churn?

[Chris Hayes]

Well, it's certainly of grave concerns.

[Tim Miller]

Back in 2023, Mike Turner, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, criticized Donald Trump's decision to store hundreds of classified documents down at Mar A Lago. Turner had also previously criticized Trump's 2019 call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the one where Trump pressured Zelenskyy to announce an investigation into Joe Biden.

[Lisa Rubin]

I've read the transcript of the conversation with the president and the president of Ukraine concerning that conversation.

[Chris Hayes]

I want to say to the president, this is not okay. That conversation is not okay, and I think it's disappointing to the American public when they read the transcript.

[Tim Miller]

Apparently, criticism like that comes at a cost. Yesterday, House Speaker Mike Johnson invited Representative Turner to his office and informed Mr. Turner that he was removing him from a very powerful post as chair of the House Intelligence Committee. The speaker told reporters last night that his decision had absolutely nothing to do with President Elect Trump. But Turner himself told CBS News the opposite that in their meeting, Speaker Johnson had specifically cited concerns from Mar A Lago as the reason for Turner's removal. If that is true, and Trump did play a direct role in ousting the chair of the Intelligence Committee, then we are in uncharted territory. House Speakers have never taken direction from the White House on important congressional decisions like these. Late this afternoon, Johnson announced a new chairman of the panel, Arkansas Republican Rick Crawford. Joining me now is Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthy, Democrat from Illinois and a member of the House Intelligence Committee. Congressman, thank you for being here tonight. First, let me just what has been the reaction among Democrats on the committee about what looks a lot like a purge?

[Raja Krishnamoorthy]

It sure does. It was outrageous. Committee Democrats and Republicans are shocked by what happened. It was clearly a move from Mar A Lago. This was meant to purge him for not only what you talked about in your setup piece, but also his vocal advocacy for Ukraine. This was something that he was passionate about. I know Mike well. We are friends, we disagree on a lot of things. But. But one thing that he is very, very strong on is making sure that we have a bipartisan Intelligence Committee approach to holding the intelligence community accountable. And one of those subjects that we are constantly talking about is Ukraine. And that's something that Donald Trump obviously was very, very upset about.

[Tim Miller]

NBC News is reporting a Republican lawmaker who spoke to Representative Turner spelled out how the former chairman could make life difficult for Speaker Johnson, who is under pressure to deliber for Donald Trump. Mike Turner did not vote on Wednesday or Thursday. I think Turner will burn the House down. This lawmaker said he will be a no vote on everything. I mean, he just got totally effed. You've spoken, I believe, with Representative Turner. Can you give us a sense of his mood right now, his reaction to this, whether this reporting is on point, whether it's going to be a problem for Speaker Johnson, who again commands that, or controls the House with a very, very narrow majority.

[Raja Krishnamoorthy]

Suffice it to say that Mike is not a happy camper. And I think that he wasthe way in which he was handled was completely inappropriate. And the fact that, you know, Mike Johnson basically relied on his vote to become speaker and then to do this to him after the fact is even more galling. So now I think that there's potential payback. And I think that given that they're going to have to rely on pretty much every single Republican to vote lockstep, for instance, for this tax cuts and jobs package extension and this big tax scam that's about to come down the pike in the form of a reconciliation package means that it's possible that someone like Mr. Turner may not be with them when they need him.

[Tim Miller]

Independent of the fortunes of Speaker Johnson and Donald Trump's agenda in the Republican conference. I mean, I think it should alarm everybody that Donald Trump is so singularly focused on the House Intelligence Committee. There is a lot of talk about Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin and the relationship they have, especially over the issue of Ukraine. I mean, can you Talk a little bit more about the reasons why Trump may be so laser focused on this. He already has two of his picks, Scott Perry and Ronny Jackson, sitting on the House Intelligence. That was done, I believe, last year or the year before at his direction. And they were not the typical, the members you would typically see on a committee like that. Can you talk a little bit about the work of the Intelligence Committee as it dovetails with Trump's interests or concerns?

[Raja Krishnamoorthy]

Well, you're absolutely right. I think that, look, the intelligence community is charged with being truth tellers and they need to come and tell the truth in service of our country, not in service of a party, not in service of Donald Trump. Now that you have people like, you know, potentially Tulsi Gabbard or Kash Patel or others who are going to come before this Intelligence Committee, it's even more important that the chair and members of the committee hold their feet to the fire. Now, if he has people like, you know, the folks that you mentioned, and he Trumpifies the Intelligence Committee, it's less likely that they're going to actually hold these folks accountable. And, and ultimately it makes our country less safe. So this is a dangerous move. One last thing I want to say about this, which is that I think that this was not only meant to purge Mike Turner, but it was meant to send a signal to other Republicans throughout the House, which is that your committee assignments are also in danger if you cross Trump. That's a very, very dangerous precedent that he set.

[Tim Miller]

Can you talk about Rick Crawford, who is the new Republican chair of the committee? He, I know just based on his voting record, he voted to overturn the 20 results. He has voted against Ukraine aid, and he has served on the committee since 2017. What's your assessment of him running the committee?

[Raja Krishnamoorthy]

I don't have personal quarrels with him, but the question is whether he's going to be willing to stand up to Trump, whether he's going to be willing to hold people accountable, whether he's going to, for instance, make sure that, you know, when Kash Patel comes before the committee, that he's asked the tough questions that he's inevitably going to get with regard to the FBI. So we're going to see how Mr. Crawford performs. But the fact that Mike Turner is not there is deeply, deeply disconcerting.

[Tim Miller]

Congressman Rajakrishnamoorthy, it is really great to get your perspective on all of this. Thanks for joining us tonight.

[Raja Krishnamoorthy]

Thank you so much.

[Tim Miller]

Still to come this evening, a surprise in court. As America's former mayor, Rudy Giuliani settles the mountain of debt he owes the two Georgia election workers he defamed. Only the settlement is raising a lot of new questions. We're going to dig into them coming up next.

[Rachel Maddow]

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[Raja Krishnamoorthy]

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[Rachel Maddow]

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Career advocating for those unjustly killed.

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[Paola Ramos]

I do think it's worth being very.

[Tim Miller]

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[Tim Miller]

For more than a year now, former mayor of New York Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani has owed the Georgia election workers he was found liable of defaming Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss. He has owed them more than $145 million. But Giuliani has dragged his feet, refusing to pay Freeman and Moss what he owes them and crying poor until today. Giuliani, Freeman and Moss have now reached a settlement for an undisclosed sum of money. But the settlement raises more questions than it answers. According to Giuliani's lawyer, this new settlement means that Giuliani gets to keep his 10 room apartment on the Upper east side of Manhattan, as well as his condo in Florida, his World Series rings, his vintage Mercedes Benz and all of his other personal belongings. Giuliani himself released a statement today saying this resolution does not involve an admission of liability or wrongdoing. So what happened here? Joining me now is MSNBC legal correspondent the great Lisa Rubin. Lisa, I mean, the law was on their side here, right? And it was clear that Giuliani was like delaying as long as possible. I just wonder. I'll read the statement from Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss. We have agreed to allow Mr. Giuliani to retain his property in exchange for compensation and his promise not to ever defame us. Do you have a sentence? Do you have a theory about what they might have gotten out of this deal? Rudy's keeping all of his properties and his precious World Series rings.

[Paola Ramos]

I think the most important thing, most important word in that statement is compensation. The question is, where is it coming from? Because this is the same Rudy Giuliani who post verdict famously filed for bankruptcy only to play so many games with the bankruptcy court that he was effectively tossed out of of that court. And that's when the women began this New York lawsuit that led to the settlement today. It was because they were trying to enforce that 145 plus million dollar verdict that you talked about earlier. Now there's some risk to them. Giuliani was appealing that verdict and it's still on appeal. The New York judge said no, even though you're appealing it, you still have to turn over your property to them. So it's likely that the woman agreed to accept a whole lot less than $145.9 million, but in exchange for the certainty that Giuliani would stop appealing the verdict and that they could get on with their lives.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, so this was make it all like, let's end this prolonged nightmare, give us the money and don't defame us again. The don't defame us again part seems like, I don't know, a risky element for someone like Giuliani who's not exhibited what we would call self control here.

[Paola Ramos]

It's definitely a risky element and it's also something he's already agreed to. This case was originally tried in federal court in Washington D.C. where Giuliani, Giuliani already agreed to an injunction against further defaming them. You might have read recently or our viewers might have heard about contempt proceedings against Giuliani. One of those contempt proceedings was about the fact that in November on his radio show, he again defamed them, the two women, on two successive nights in November. And that's why they went to seek civil contempt against him. So they already had that agreement, he already violated it. Obviously, if they have an agreement through the settlement that he's not going to do it, there probably is something baked into the settlement to give them further compensation or further relief if he violates the.

[Tim Miller]

So if he defames him, then he probably has to pay up. But this then gets back to that central question of where did he get.

[Paola Ramos]

The funds that's a really good question because Donald Trump earlier in the week tweeted in all caps, a single sentence, save Rudy.

[Tim Miller]

There it is.

[Paola Ramos]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

And apropos of nothing else. Right. I mean, this hasn't been like he's.

[Paola Ramos]

This has been in the news, right?

[Tim Miller]

Yes.

[Paola Ramos]

And I think many people interpreted this as Trump's basically saying what's happening to Rudy Giuliani, in his view, is unfair. Of course, if Donald Trump had ever paid Rudy Giuliani for the legal services he rendered in the first place, we might not be in this position. The reason that that verdict came against Giuliani was in part because he didn't even get to contest liability in that case. Why? Because the judge found that he was so obstreperous in his pre litigation, pretrial conduct that it was fair to just decide that he was liable because you couldn't get any discovery from him. He wouldn't come to court. He wouldn't answer questions. The trial that was had was solely on the question of, of, okay, let's assume that he did it. How much money does he owe them for it? He wasn't even able to contest liability because Trump was so stingy. This is one of those circumstances where. And Trump learns this lesson again and again. He learned it with Michael Cohen, too. If you just paid the people who did the work for you in the.

[Tim Miller]

First place, it'd be a lot easier.

[Paola Ramos]

You might have spared yourself a lot of pain.

[Tim Miller]

Well, but it does raise a question if it's, you know, because he's the incoming president. Sure. Just from an ethics standpoint, it opens up a whole can of worms about, like, who is trying to do Trump a favor by saying saving Rudy. Right. Setting even Rudy and his utility for an outside actor. There's, you know, this is something the incoming president wants. I could curry favor with the incoming president by bailing out his former lawyer. We're unlikely to ever know where the money came from, though.

[Paola Ramos]

We are probably unlikely to know. But as you and staff and Tim were talking about earlier in your show, there is no shortage of American oligarchs who are trying to curry favor with Donald Trump even as we speak. And many of them might be interested and helping to pay for a settlement with Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss to make this long standing problem just go away.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. When the collective net worth of three people on the inauguration dais is close to a trillion dollars, $148 million or $145 million for defamation payments seems like. But a drop in the bucket. Lisa Rubin thank you for helping me unpack yet another mystery from the house of Giuliani. I appreciate your time, my friend.

[Paola Ramos]

Thanks for having me.

[Tim Miller]

Coming up, a special report on what one city on the front lines is doing ahead of Trump's return to the White House. Stay with us. 25 miles from times Square is Floyd Bennett Field, a decommissioned airfield which was turned into a migrant shelter at the end of 2023. This 2000 bed facility housed migrant families with children for over a year before it was officially shut down by city officials this week. But from day one, it was also a battleground. Migrant activists criticized the facility for lacking privacy and adequate bathroom access and sufficient warmth. That was not the biggest issue, though. Because of who controls the land on which the facility sits, Floyd Bennett Field became a prime target for Trump's promised mass deportations. Here's a special report from MSNBC contributor Paula Ramos.

[Chris Hayes]

So we're right outside the Floyd Benefield migrant shelter. We're in South Brooklyn right now. This is also the only shelter in all of New York City that sits on federal land. So what that means is that the Trump administration could carry out raids here and can turn this into a detention center.

[Tim Miller]

Hola, tos listos.

[Chris Hayes]

These are volunteers from Floyd Benefield Neighbors, a group of 300 local residents who have taken it upon themselves to fight for these migrant families, pushing New York City to shut down the tent complex and have all migrants relocated to safer shelters before Trump returns to power. We have to fix our broken immigration system. The shelter officially closed this week. Mayor Eric Adams cited declining migrant arrivals. But for families like Jason Gonzalez's, asylum seekers from Venezuela, leaving these tents was crucial to dodging Trump's deportation threats. They arrived in the US Only two weeks before Trump was re elected. They left the shelter with the help of the Floyd Benefield neighbors just weeks before Trump's inauguration. The relocation process starts here at the Roosevelt Hotel in Manhattan, the city's central migrant arrival hub. So with Trump coming into office in just a couple of days, we decided to go check on Jason and his family at this new shelter that they were assigned to. We're not disclosing where they are, but because of security purposes back in Brooklyn, the now dismantled airfield stands as a grim reminder of what's to come. Under Trump, even sanctuary cities may not be as safe as they once were.

[Tim Miller]

MSNBC contributor Paolo Ramos joins me next to discuss all that. Stay with us tonight. The mayor of New York City, Eric Adams, is reportedly on his way to Palm Beach, Florida to meet with President Elect Trump At Mar a Lago. Likely to be high on the agenda is the influx of migrants in New York City, something Adams previously signaled he would work with the Trump administration to address. Now, of course, Trump's solution to that problem is mass deportations. So what exactly is in store for the thousands of migrants, immigrants currently residing in sanctuary cities like New York? Joining me now is someone who is recently and, like, always spending time reporting on the ground to such great success, talking to asylum seekers right here in the city, MSNBC contributor Paolo Ramos. It's just always a good moment to have you here because there's always tumult, and you do such an incredible job reporting on it, Paola. But first, you know, it feels like when you talk about these mass deportations, blue states, sanctuary cities are going to be the target. Can you tell me a little bit about the level of fear that you saw on the part of both migrants and the people who have been helping shelter those migrants inside New York City?

[Chris Hayes]

Right. You mentioned. And we end the piece on this idea of what are sanctuary cities. And the first thing that comes to mind is Eric Adams on his way to go see Trump. And then I think about Floyd Benefield. And I think if we zoom into that map now, you see this migrant tent city in Brooklyn, a Brooklyn where Donald Trump received 16,000 more votes in 2024 than in 2020. And then if you keep zooming in, you see that this migrant shelter is surrounded by pro Trump districts. And just to give people some context, now, these districts are literally just 20 minutes away from the Statue of Liberty, a statue that then is overshadowing and shadowing over the sanctuary city with a mayor, again, that hasn't just signaled this willingness to cooperate and collaborate with the Trump administration, but one that is literally on his way to go meet him just four days before inauguration. And so I think that's the question that these migrants had. How will this sanctuary city that has always been this embodiment of immigrants, protect them from Trump? I think one of the things that is uncomfortable, but I think you and I have talked about this many times, is the way in which the migrant crisis fundamentally changed all these cities, really testing what it means to be a sanctuary city, not just sort of this physical capacity to take on migrants, but the moral capacity to sort of like, hold on to these principles when this country's shifting to the right. Absolutely. I think that's the fear that you can't even rely on this idea anymore.

[Tim Miller]

They closed down. So I have been to the Roosevelt Hotel and done, like, the Beginning stage of some of this reporting where it's like there was a huge influx of migrants to the city. They didn't have places to shelter them. They create this kind of tent city out at Floyd Bennett, and now they have to close it because it's on federal land and they're worried it's going to become a target for deportation raids. When you talk to the migrants who are kind of being shuttled throughout all of this, there's a family that you profile and their kids are taking their asylum papers with them in their backpacks to school. What is the emotional tenor of this moment like for them? And how are the children grappling with this?

[Chris Hayes]

I mean, the number one question everyone had, and Jason, who we're seeing on the screen, the one thing that's on his mind and he told me is, will they separate my family? Like, that is what everyone is thinking about. Will our families be separated? After crossing the Darien jungle, which they did after navigating the Mexican cartels crossing the southern border, they are seeking asylum in a country that is threatening to separate their families. And I think. I think that's sort of what we have to understand. That's what's coming up in four days. We're about to see a Trump administration that's not just empowered, but will be completely emboldened. I don't know if you remember in 2017, literally within Trump being in office a couple of months, ICE arrest completely increased by 30%, because I think that's the fear that people like Jason have right now. What does it mean to have this administration emboldened? No, what it means is that literally, you're going to have local law enforcement pretending to be ICE agents. You're going to have ICE and feeling emboldened to go into churches, hospitals, as we talked about schools, you're going to have a new DHS that will also feel emboldened to pretend like we're literally being invaded at the southern border. You will have vigilantes emboldened to take matters into their own hands. And so all of this will definitely be contested. There will be legal fights. But I think the point is that what they're trying to do now is inflict fear, inflict so much fear so that people like Jason either self deported.

[Tim Miller]

Right.

[Chris Hayes]

Or hide in the shadows. That's the strategy.

[Tim Miller]

Do they have, I mean, does Jason have conversations with his kids? Are they aware of what is. I mean, when they say to you, we carry our papers in our backpacks, like, is there a conversation happening? Like, if they come to your school, you should do X, Y and Z. Have they acknowledged, like, do you, do you know if the kids who are gonna be. Who are obviously the most innocent in all of this understand the threats on this?

[Chris Hayes]

I had that same question. I don't think they do. They don't. And that's something that I keep thinking about. Now. I think this country, you either understand or you don't understand the significance of what's happening now. But I think one of the things I keep thinking about is what Joe Biden said yesterday in his speech. It's not just this idea of who we are as Americans now, but who we should be. The question is, if you're watching this now, if you're just an American, what is being tested is not Jason. It is not Republicans. It's not maga, it's not Democrats. It is Americans backbone. How will we react when we start seeing these mass deportations and these family separations? Like, how will there be this collective moral outrage or not? That's what will save people like Jason?

[Tim Miller]

Well, and I would say in the same way that the influx tested the sort of the moral fibers that connect us to one another here in New York City, I would imagine deportation rates could also bring the New York City community closer together. I mean, how much tension is there between the mayor who's down there kissing the ring at Mar a Lago and the people that are running shelters and trying to help migrants who are city employees?

[Chris Hayes]

I think there's an unspoken tension. I mean, we have to say even getting access into the shelter that we saw right now was extremely hard. And the reason it was extremely hard is because the agencies truly understand that no matter who's in power, no matter what this mayor does, no matter if there's ice around these neighborhoods, people need to be protected. And that is a tension that was really palpable. But I think it speaks to the moment we're in. What does it mean to be a sanctuary city? We're about to find out.

[Tim Miller]

We are about to find out a whole lot. Palo Ramos, thank you, my friend, for the important and essential reporting you always do. You are a treasure. That is our show for tonight.

[Rachel Maddow]

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