Podcast Summary: "Trump's Lies, Ukraine's Truth" on Trumpland with Alex Wagner

Release Date: February 27, 2025
Host: Alex Wagner, MSNBC
Podcast Title: Trumpland with Alex Wagner
Episode Title: Trump's Lies, Ukraine's Truth

Introduction

In the episode titled "Trump's Lies, Ukraine's Truth", Alex Wagner delves deep into the intricate web of misinformation surrounding the ongoing conflict in Ukraine and former President Donald Trump's controversial remarks. This episode, released on February 27, 2025, marks three years since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, offering listeners a comprehensive analysis of the war's impact, the resilience of the Ukrainian people, and the political maneuvers in the U.S. that influence international relations.

Personal Accounts from Ukraine

The episode opens with poignant voice memos from ordinary Ukrainians, capturing their harrowing experiences since the onset of the war on February 24, 2022. These firsthand accounts provide a human face to the conflict, illustrating the daily struggles and emotional toll on the Ukrainian populace.

• Marina from Kyiv (01:19): "I remember that day almost second by second. The first day of the war. I remember it so clearly like it was yesterday. I'm lost for words to explain the feeling."

• Daria Kolomyits (13:05): "This is a very special, important, and painful day for all Ukrainians."

These narratives highlight the fear, loss, and enduring spirit of Ukrainians amidst relentless aggression. For instance, Marina recounts waking up to sirens and explosions, fearing for her family's safety:

• Marina (03:19): "I couldn't breathe normally... What will happen to them. We pray all day."

Additionally, the episode features stories of personal sacrifice and resilience:

• Olena Nikulina (14:03): "Olena gave birth to a child. The boy is now two years and four months. Maxim has been in captivity for two years and nine months. Olena hasn't heard from him yet..."

• Irina Chekatzibuk (18:12): "Combat medic, public activist, and my very close friend. Irina was killed by Russia on May 29 in Kharkiv Region while saving lives during her mission in battalion hospital."

Analyzing Trump's Misinformation

A significant portion of the episode scrutinizes former President Donald Trump's statements regarding the Ukraine conflict. Trump has repeatedly shifted blame, attributing the initiation of the war to Ukraine rather than Russia, and labeling Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky as a dictator.

• Trump's Claims (06:15): "Promising to end the biggest war in Europe since World War II, President Trump is now blaming Ukraine for being invaded by Russia. He said Ukrainian President Zelensky should have made unspecified concessions to placate Russia and avoid the war."

• Marina's Reaction (07:45): "The suggestion of President Donald Trump that it was President Zelensky and Ukrainians, but not Russia, who started the war is totally bullshit... It hurts a lot because it's not true... It feels like a betrayal to the whole people."

Trump's unfounded assertions aim to delegitimize Ukraine's sovereignty and shift global perception, thereby weakening international support against Russian aggression.

The "Diary of War" Performance

To counteract misinformation, the episode highlights a culturally significant event—a sold-out performance of "Diary of War" in Manhattan's Upper West Side.

• Alex Wagner (11:43): "On Manhattan's Upper West Side, people filed into a small 80-seat theater for a sold-out performance of 'Diary of War.'"

Directed by Musa Gurness, a Ukrainian American, the performance features American actors reciting original Ukrainian voice memos, translating personal war experiences into a compelling theatrical narrative. This event serves as a testament to Ukrainian resilience and a medium to preserve and disseminate their truths.

Quotes from the performance include:

• Combat Medic (13:37): "I work as a combat medic for the Marines with the Hospitaliers, a volunteer organization of paramedics."

• Olena Nikulina (14:03): "Olena hasn't heard from [Maxim] yet until..."

These stories underscore the profound personal losses and the enduring hope within the Ukrainian community.

Interview with Chris Hayes: The Weaponization of Disinformation

A pivotal segment of the episode features an in-depth conversation between Alex Wagner and Chris Hayes, focusing on the role of disinformation in exacerbating the Ukraine conflict and its broader implications for global democracies.

• Alex Wagner (20:18): "Our next guest... is Ben Rhodes, co-host of 'Pod Save the World' and a former senior advisor to President Barack Obama."

Key Discussion Points:

1. Disinformation as a Strategic Tool:

   • Chris Hayes (21:25): "Ultimately, the purpose of disinformation is to get somebody to do what you want them to do... Trump is repeating Russian talking points... The fact that Donald Trump is repeating Russian talking points and half the country... We are pretty far on our way, not necessarily to being Russia, but we're certainly in hungry territory already."

2. Impact on U.S. Foreign Policy:

   • Chris Hayes (23:11): "Russia wants an election to destabilize Ukraine. It's not just a narrative problem. It's actually bleeding into substantive negotiating positions of the United States."

3. Erosion of Trust in Information:

   • Alex Wagner (23:11): "This is a very Orwellian tactic of destabilizing the information ecosystem so that people no longer know what's right, what's wrong."

4. Potential Global Consequences:

   • Chris Hayes (26:26): "Putin wins on his terms in Ukraine and tries to destabilize Ukrainian politics... What’s the message to China about it's okay to go take Taiwan?"

5. Authoritarianism and Polarization:

   • Chris Hayes (25:56): "We're not at the beginning of the spectrum of a transition to authoritarianism. We're pretty deep into it."

6. Examples of Disinformation:

   • Ben Rhodes (24:23): "Understanding things is empowering. So, you know, if people think it's hard to hear certain things, just remind yourself that they want you to not hear them."

The discussion emphasizes how Trump's alignment with Russian disinformation not only undermines Ukraine but also sows seeds of authoritarianism within the United States by eroding public trust and fostering polarization.

Conclusion

The episode of Trumpland with Alex Wagner meticulously unpacks the complex interplay between misinformation, international conflict, and domestic politics. Through heartfelt Ukrainian testimonies and expert analyses, it highlights the dire consequences of disinformation campaigns spearheaded by influential political figures like Donald Trump. The narrative underscores the importance of truth, resilience, and informed discourse in the face of authoritarian tendencies and global instability.

As Ukraine continues to navigate the challenges posed by relentless aggression and misinformation, the episode serves as a crucial reminder of the enduring human spirit and the imperative to uphold democratic values worldwide.

Notable Quotes:

• Marina, Kyiv: "I remember that day almost second by second... I fell asleep next to my mom because we had been watching a movie together." [01:48]

• Rachel Maddow on Trump's Claims: "You should have never started it." [06:32]

• Chris Hayes on Disinformation: "We're pretty far on our way, not necessarily to being Russia, but we're certainly in hungry territory already." [25:56]

• Ben Rhodes: "Understanding things is empowering... they want you to not hear them." [29:19]

Production Credits:

Produced by Max Jacobs, Julia D'Angelo, and Kay Guerrero, with associate producer Jamaris Perez. Audio engineers include Bob Mallory, Katie Lau, Mark Yoshizumi, and Bryson Barnes as head of audio production. Executive producers are Matthew Alexander and Aisha Turner. The episode was expertly crafted to deliver a compelling and informative narrative on one of the most pressing geopolitical issues of our time.