Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

Episode: Jonathan Hirsch, Part 1 - A Guru, a Compound, and the Cult of Adi Da
Air Date: January 21, 2026
Hosts: Lola Blanc & Meagan Elizabeth
Guest: Jonathan Hirsch (podcaster, author, and survivor of the Adi Da cult)

Episode Overview

This episode launches a two-part conversation with Jonathan Hirsch, journalist and creator of the "Dear Franklin Jones" podcast, who grew up as a child in the cult of New Age guru Franklin Jones, later known as Adi Da. Through anecdotes and observations, Jonathan describes the eclectic, shifting doctrine of the group, his parents’ journey into and within Adi Da’s world, and the psychological impact of growing up in a high-control environment. The conversation delves into the group’s constantly mutating beliefs, the power of recorded teachings, the insidious word salad of cult doctrine, taboo sexual practices, and the isolating experience of being a “cult kid.”

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Many Names and Faces of Adi Da's Cult

Timestamps: 13:33–16:32

• The cult was known by multiple names: eventually “Adi Dham,” with the leader adopting dozens of aliases, including Franklin Jones, Da Free John, Bubba Free John, and Ruchira Avatar Adi Da Samraj.
  • Quote (Jonathan): “He was born Franklin Jones...then became Da Free John and then Bubba Free John…I’m going to butcher the order…he basically created variations on D quite a bit.” (14:05)
• His ever-more Byzantine names paralleled the increasingly convoluted group doctrine, shifting from accessible talk to impenetrable jargon.
  • Quote (Jonathan): “The words he wrote, they went from conversational English to some kind of cuneiform symbology…Even the people within the group would have to refer to scholars.” (15:19)

2. Who Was Franklin Jones / Adi Da?

Timestamps: 16:17–18:10

• An ordinary man from Queens, NY, Jones radiated a mysterious, hypnotic energy—often cited by followers as a key part of his allure.
  • Quote (Lola): “He does have a very interesting face...there’s just something interesting about his face.” (16:17)
  • Quote (Jonathan): “There was a sort of hypnotic effect to the way that he would engage…Like, even the way...your followers would sit in front of the teacher…[believed] that Franklin Jones…was actually physically an incarnation of God.” (16:32)
• His followers accepted his claim to be a living incarnation of God, and after his death rationalized that, while his physical form would die, his consciousness persisted as the cosmic Self.
  • Quote (Jonathan): “His followers believed…that he was actually physically an incarnation of God.” (17:14)
  • Quote (Jonathan): “The belief was that his physical body would die, but that he was what immortality is, if that makes sense...when you die and you're reabsorbed into this...it's actually Franklin Jones that you're reabsorbing into.” (17:36)

3. Jonathan’s Parents: Why They Joined

Timestamps: 18:19–24:35

• Both were classic post-60s seekers. His Hungarian father was a refugee, early adopter of psychedelics, and a spiritual searcher. His mother, after a conventional Midwestern upbringing, lived a decade in Nepal, studied acupuncture, and sought meaning beyond suburbia.
  • Quote (Jonathan): “They are both a window into the kind of people that would have joined...also, I just think a good window into the kinds of people who were exploring different ways of being in the 1960s into the 70s.” (18:24)
• They met during a “New Age meet-cute” at a gathering for another guru, Rama (Frederick Lenz), then migrated to the Adi Da group, drawn by the promise of deeper spiritual fulfillment.

4. Entrance via Tapes, Not Direct Contact

Timestamps: 33:07–36:29

• Contrary to stereotypes, most followers—including Jonathan’s parents—interfaced only through tapes of Adi Da’s teachings rather than direct contact.
  • Quote (Jonathan): “He appeared and disappeared...for long stretches of time, in part because he had so much property.” (33:07)
  • Quote (Jonathan): “Most of his followers, even the ones that did encounter him physically, many people went their entire lives being in this group and never physically seeing this man.” (36:01)
• The group’s sense of specialness and truth was amplified by this distance; Adi Da's voice became an object of near-mystical fixation.
  • Quote (Jonathan): “Talk about what a, like, entrancing world to be in—you hear this guy's voice and his laughter and his words, and he's promising all of these things.” (35:18)

5. The Doctrine: Ever-Changing, Ever-Confusing

Timestamps: 37:52–41:40

• The central tenet was essentially a Westernized version of non-dualism (“Advaita”), camouflaged with shifting vocabulary and claims of unique revelation through Adi Da himself.
  • Quote (Jonathan): “The fundamental message was rooted in this idea of non-dualism...you see in Buddhism and in Hinduism...that we are basically all little molecules...one organism, one consciousness.” (37:54)
• However, Jonathan’s producer named these shifting explanations “word salad.” Deliberate ambiguity and jargon fostered confusion, dependency, and control.
  • Quote (Jonathan): “Trying to define the group was always very difficult...The words...would always use to describe it were word salad.” (40:33)
  • Quote (Lola): “Word salad is a key function of a cult leader’s doctrine...the more ambiguous, the more the goalposts can move...” (41:05)

6. Manipulation, Indoctrination & Abuse

Timestamps: 41:41–51:12

• As with many cults, the ambiguous doctrine and manipulative “considerations” often led to deeply abusive scenarios—chiefly sexual exploitation orchestrated by Adi Da.
  • Quote (Jonathan): “There were...drug-fueled parties...referred to as considerations...the idea was that a select group of followers were privately partying with Jones...Sexual experimentation happened during that time.” (47:07)
  • Quote (Jonathan): “He was manipulating those scenarios...pairing people up, people who were married having to have sex with other people...” (47:32)
  • The justification: dismantling the ego through “breaking attachments,” all for claimed spiritual benefit.
• Group living often involved compounds in rural California, Hawaii, and even on an island in Fiji, with families split and strong social pressure for loyalty and self-suppression.

7. Growing Up “Cult Kid”: Isolation and Identity

Timestamps: 51:12–58:21, 59:35–62:08

• Jonathan’s life was shaped by being on the periphery—not wholly “in” the group at first, but always marked by difference from peers, secrecy, and a strong sense of otherness.
  • Quote (Jonathan): “It took me a very long time to feel at home in the world...making Dear Franklin Jones was a step...of asserting for myself...that my story...existed within our cultural narratives.” (56:16)
• The boundary between the “safe” group and the “outside world” created lasting difficulties in trust and social belonging—a common thread among “cult kids.”
  • Quote (Jonathan): “There was a lot of masking...I wouldn't talk about what happened inside my home...Making Dear Franklin Jones was a step in the direction of asserting, for myself, what I wanted for the remainder of my life.” (56:16)

8. Word Salad, Language, and Critical Realizations

Timestamps: 42:11–44:41

• A particularly poignant anecdote involves a former follower who, tasked with translating Jones’s doctrine into French, realized that the words were ultimately meaningless—an epiphany that helped her leave.
  • Quote (Lola): “She talks about...translating his books into French...and she was like, ‘this doesn't mean anything.’” (42:24)
• Similarly, other survivors found that exposure to the doctrine in another language or after significant life changes enabled critical evaluation and, ultimately, exit from the group.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Jonathan Hirsch, regarding Adi Da's shifting names and method:
  “He basically created variations on D quite a bit. And then later, it started to have quite complicated names, like Ruchira, Avatar, Adi Da Samraj.” (14:15)
• On the group's confusion and language:
  “The words...went from conversational English to some kind of cuneiform symbology...Even the people within the group would have to refer to scholars.” (15:19)
• On doctrine and leadership:
  “Jones was under a pretty significant amount of public pressure...there was controversy...He was on the front page...coercing his followers, manipulating them, in some cases, allegedly assaulting them.” (33:40)
• On the use of tapes as indoctrination:
  “You hear this guy's voice and his laughter and his words, and he’s promising all of these things...It’s quite a fantasy you can build up in your head about who this person is.” (35:18)
• Lola Blanc, examining cults and language:
  “Word salad is a key function of a cult leader’s doctrine...the more ambiguous, the more the goalposts can move.” (41:05)
• Meagan Elizabeth, on translation as an awakening:
  “This woman translating it to French...actually had critical thinking built in and was like, ‘What the fuck is this shit?’” (44:05)
• Jonathan, on being “cult kids” and outsider identity:
  “There's this quiet community of us...where your life is so distinctly different than the experience of other people as to be unbridgeable. That's a very difficult feeling.” (59:35)

Memorable & Emotional Moments

• Discussion of living with a life-size cardboard cutout of Adi Da in the family home, meditating on it as if he were present. (54:57)
• Jonathan’s reflections on always being “on the outskirts,” both within the cult and outside it, and his yearning for a sense of normalcy and relatable identity. (56:16)
• The story of parents being told to become computer programmers—and failing, leading them from one guru to the next. (28:05)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [13:33] – Introduction of Adi Da, his aliases, and the cult’s names
• [16:32] – Discussion of Jones's physical appearance and persona
• [18:19] – Jonathan’s parents’ backgrounds and “New Age meet-cute”
• [33:07] – Paradox of the remote guru: tapes as indoctrination
• [37:52] – Nonduality, word salad, and moving doctrinal goalposts
• [41:41] – Manipulation, sexual abuse, and the “considerations”
• [51:12]/[59:35] – Growing up in the group, isolation, and aftermath
• [42:11] – A follower’s realization via translation, and broader language issues

Tone and Style

The conversation is characterized by directness, dark humor, and empathy. Lola and Meagan draw on their own experiences in cults, trading jokes (“Skullet Man,” “the gall of this man!”) while probing serious themes: isolation, manipulation, trauma, and awakening.

Conclusion & Next Episode

This Part 1 episode ends with a promise to delve deeper into Jonathan’s personal journey of leaving the group and its aftermath in Part 2.

For listeners, this episode offers a compassionate, firsthand glimpse into the psychological experience and machinations of a New Age cult—and the ongoing process of reclaiming one’s narrative afterward.