Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

Episode Overview

Episode Title: Mike & Abbi Prussack - Part 1: A Church with No Name, Isolated Childhoods, and Doomsday Fear
Date: November 12, 2025
Hosts: Lola Blanc & Meagan Elizabeth
Guests: Mike and Abby Prusack

This episode of Trust Me explores the secretive and insular Christian sect known as "the Two by Twos" (also referred to as "the Truth" or "the Church with No Name"), through the personal experiences of ex-members Mike and Abby Prussack. Now moderators of a prominent support/exit group, Mike and Abby discuss their upbringings, the unique structure and practices of the church, how they met and married within its confines, and the subtle, often unspoken pressures that kept them—and generations before and after—in the fold. The episode highlights the powerful role of groupthink, mutual rejection, fear-based control, and the blurred line between devotion and delusion.

Note: Part 2 will focus on the FBI investigation and abuse allegations within the church.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Origins & Entrance to the Two by Twos

Abby Prussack's Family Conversion

• Abby is "second generation;" her parents converted after seeking stability following previous marriages. (12:22)
• Upon conversion, her mother adopted the sect's strictures immediately—throwing away televisions and adhering to rigid dress codes.
• People who convert in, as opposed to being born in, often adhere even more strictly to prove belonging. Abby describes her childhood as very rule-focused. (13:28–14:41)

Mike Prussack's Ancestry in the Group

• Mike’s family are multi-generational members, connected since the early 20th century (Alaska, about 1905–1910). (24:44)
• He identifies as “fifth generation on my mom's side and fourth on my dad’s,” framing his entire upbringing within the church’s worldview.

2. Daily Life, Rules, and Isolation

Childhood Practices

• Abby grew up in Northern Idaho/Washington, always wearing dresses, no TV, limited sports (some girls weren't allowed; exceptions made if modesty rules kept). (14:47–16:33)
• Strict attendance at “meetings” (services)—even during vacations or sports tournaments, meetings were never missed. (16:10–17:16)
• Services are held in congregants' homes, not churches, with addresses home-shared secretly. Ministers, called "workers," have no personal homes and live with congregants, moving frequently (19:01–20:52).

Isolation from the Outside World

• Both Mike and Abby describe having few or no friends outside the church. (34:36–35:41)
• “It wasn’t like explicitly said like, oh, you can't have friends in school. But it was definitely an implicit kind of rule.” – Mike (34:36)
• Abby: “I was always a little bit better. Right. Like, in my mind, which is embarrassing, but, like, I don't blame myself either. ... I wasn't allowed to hug my friends or call them my best friends because my best friend was God.” (37:48–38:07)

Mutual Rejection as Control

• “One of the ways that they keep high control groups so insular without having compound walls is by everyone experiencing rejection mutually ... then they all come together and they share this mutual rejection that bonds them.” – Abby (38:40)
• Mike compares it to the bonding effect of rejection among Jehovah’s Witnesses going door-to-door.

3. Structures, Hierarchy & Gender Roles

Services and Structure

• Meetings in homes, not churches. The sect is anti-institutional by design—no official churches or public-facing websites (17:56–18:54).
• Ministers (“workers”) travel in pairs (senior/junior), assigned to geographic regions, often staying days at a time in members’ homes. Sometimes must share bedrooms or even beds for lack of space (19:37–22:45).

Authority Hierarchy

• Aging male workers ("overseers") at the top, followed by senior men, then younger men, senior women, then younger women, regardless of actual experience or time served. Male authority always trumps female, even if the woman has vastly more experience. (21:56–22:43)

Gendered Expectations

• Women expected to wear long dresses, have long hair, raise children, and avoid “worldly” activities.
• College attendance for women is technically permitted, but only within strict roles (e.g., early childhood education, nursing—caregiving jobs). Anything more ambitious is discouraged. (32:24–33:59)

4. Freedom & “Breaking Free”

Courtship and Marriage Within the Church

• Mike and Abby met at a church get-together for teens and young adults, initially hitting it off casually (“he put his arm around me the day we were leaving, but then he put his arm around some other girl at a get-together that night.” – Abby, 28:46)
• Relationship developed through events, texts, and supervised visits; they married young (21 and 19)—very common due to pressures (no sex or cohabitation before marriage).

Doubts & Leaving the Fold

• Their exit began with a simple, honest question just months after marriage: “Hey, when you pray, do you actually hear something back?” The other replied no. (42:11–43:20)
• “Instead of losing our faith, it seemed like one night we realized we never had it. … We both were in agreement there.” – Abby (43:20)
• “If you would have asked me a week before we had that conversation if I was going to be in it for the rest of my life, I would have said 100%.” – Mike (44:16)

The Nature of Faith in the Group

• Most members’ faith is in the institution/community, not in the spiritual beliefs themselves: “Our faith in the church kind of maintained for a bit after our faith in the religion in general snapped.” – Abby (31:25)
• “Everything is vague ... sermons are like tarot cards: people just hear what they want.” – Abby (46:26)
• Church leadership keeps doctrine unspecific so everyone can interpret and avoid existential crises, as long as traditions are kept up (no pants, same rituals, etc.). (47:32–48:38)

5. Fear & Doomsday as Motivation

• The group keeps members motivated by fear of the outside world and constant anxiety about “salvation”—never letting anyone feel fully secure, even inside the group.
• “Once you feel safe, you might start questioning like why you have to do all of this. So make sure that you feel extra unsafe outside of the group, but inside of the group you still can never really breathe.” – Abby (49:34)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “People who convert in aren't really insiders ... you do everything you can to play the role of the insider so that you're fully accepted into the middle, the center of the flock.” – Abby (13:59)
• “I was explicitly kept at a distance from having, like, loving friend relationships.” – Abby (38:07)
• “It’s easy to frame it as: this is the persecution that the Bible was talking about.” – Meagan (39:55)
• “Our faith in the group kind of maintained for a bit after our faith in the religion in general snapped.” – Abby (31:25)
• “If you would have asked me a week before we had that conversation if I was going to be in it for the rest of my life, I would have said 100%.” – Mike (44:16)
• “Sermons are like tarot cards. … It’s just because they took a story about a cat and they turned it into a spiritual story that didn’t actually say anything.” – Abby (46:26)
• “They don’t care what else they disagree with. Not really. As long as it doesn’t affect their traditions ... As soon as it affects their traditions, then they have a different religion than each other.” – Abby (48:38)
• “Once you feel safe, you might start questioning like why you have to do all of this. So make sure that you feel extra unsafe outside of the group, but inside of the group you still can never really breathe.” – Abby (49:34)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Origins and Conversion Stories: 12:06–14:41
• Daily Life & Rules, Meeting Practices: 14:41–18:54
• Overview of ‘Workers’ Role: 19:01–22:45
• Mike’s Family Background; Multi-generational Membership: 24:40–25:46
• Church Events, Conventions, Youth Get-togethers: 25:46–29:08
• Courtship & Marriage Inside the Church: 29:08–41:44
• Questioning & Leaving the Faith: 42:11–44:53
• Belief, Doctrine, and Unspoken Differences: 45:16–48:38
• Role of Fear & Lack of Assurance in Salvation: 48:57–49:56

Tone & Style

• Compassionate, thoughtful reflection from two ex-members
• Dark humor from the hosts, but never at the expense of the guests’ lived experience
• Honest about both the “wholesome” facade and the undercurrents of fear, control, and arbitrariness

Coming Up Next

Next week’s episode will focus on the ongoing FBI investigation and allegations of sexual abuse within the Two by Twos, and the resulting turmoil within the group (“the staggering number of perpetrators that have been named and how rarely the sexual abuse was reported to authorities…”).

This episode is a sensitive, vivid exploration of how high-control religious groups embed themselves in daily life, create “safe” communities through mutual rejection, and stifle questioning with traditions and fear—all told by those who have found their way out.