Theo Pratt - Blue Dresses, Smacking Ladies, and an Isolated Compound: Surviving Gloriavale

Summary

Podcast Summary: Trust Me: Cults, Extreme Belief, and Manipulation

Episode: Theo Pratt – Blue Dresses, Smacking Ladies, and an Isolated Compound: Surviving Gloriavale

Release Date: December 17, 2025
Hosts: Lola Blanc & Megan Elizabeth
Guest: Theo Pratt, survivor of Gloriavale and author of Unveiled: A Story of Surviving Gloriavale

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the harrowing and unique story of Theo Pratt, who spent her first 18 years inside Gloriavale—a notorious, highly controlled Christian cult compound in rural New Zealand. Hosts Lola and Megan, themselves survivors of high-control groups, interview Theo about Gloriavale’s extreme doctrines, daily life, and her courageous escape, providing a compassionate and often darkly humorous lens to an intense firsthand account.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Theo’s Family Background & Joining Gloriavale

• Theo’s parents joined Gloriavale separately—her mother visited with a friend’s family and stayed; her father was recruited by witnessing Neville Cooper (aka Hopeful Christian) preaching (13:32).
• Quote:
  “He has the ability to capture people's attention...make his story and his plans sound really good...” – Theo (13:38)

2. Life on the Gloriavale Compound

• Located in an isolated New Zealand valley: no cell or wifi coverage, nearest town 40 minutes away (15:33).

• All aspects of life—including schooling, meals, clothing, and work—were communal and strictly controlled (16:23; 29:14).

• Uniform Dress Code:
  Women and girls wore identical blue “pilgrim” dresses and head coverings; men wore light blue shirts, navy trousers—never jeans (17:56–19:14).

• Extreme Gender Roles:
  Patriarchal system; girls wore head coverings from age 5; women returned to work immediately after childbirth, with 12-13 year olds left to care for infants (16:23; 33:23).

• Quote:
  “As much as life was really fun and stuff, there was also these underlying things that you're sort of always afraid or scared of what was going to happen.” – Theo (17:39)

• No birthdays, no individual identities—children were forbidden to have “best friends” (16:12).

3. Social Conditioning & Isolation

• Systematic fear-mongering about the outside world; outsiders depicted as “evil, going to hell, sad” (19:52; 20:07).
• Outsiders with fewer children targeted as “baby murderers”; contraceptives demonized (20:13).
• Quote:
  “We perceived [the outside world] as like everyone was evil and everyone was going to hell...” – Theo (19:55)

4. Media, Education, & Censorship

• Media Consumed: Only highly censored, often violent or tragic (911 footage, war movies)—but all sexuality, “worldly” facts, and even anthropomorphic animal content edited out (29:21; 31:06).
• Days of the week and months replaced with numbers (“first day”, “second month”); all books physically altered to fit cult doctrine (30:12).
• Girls denied science education; were trained for domestic work only (65:04).

5. Recruitment, Propaganda, and Public Image

• Biannual “shows” allowed outsiders to visit—used to recruit and project normalcy, but tightly staged (23:13).
• Documentary film crews were tightly controlled; members felt on display “like animals in a zoo” (38:15).

6. Doctrine & Absolute Control

• Belief in Gloriavale as the “one true church”; baptism sealed salvation—leaving meant soul (and children’s souls) were condemned (25:56).
• Members required to sign a “commitment document” pledging all income/assets to the community (27:15).
• Women expected to suffer; going to hospital for birth considered a faith failure and source of shame (34:43; 35:07).
• Rigorous leadership oversight—including “smacking ladies” assigned to physically discipline children in the absence of parents (52:58).

7. Community Policing and Enforcement

• Members spied on each other, encouraged to snitch; no private communication or self-expression—writing and even private thoughts strictly monitored (40:08; 41:40).
• Escape routes tightly guarded; women/girls needed male supervision to reach property boundaries (55:22).
• Quote:
  “As a girl and woman in Gloriavale, there’s not really a chance for you to get out.” – Theo (55:22)

8. Charismatic Leadership & Cult Dynamics

• Founder Neville Cooper (Hopeful Christian) depicted as godlike—feared, erratic, manipulative, and central to worship (41:56; 42:26).
• Quote:
  “We referred to him and the leaders as SS officers...he gave that vibe.” – Theo (43:18)
• Absolute belief in his authority—but as children matured, some saw through his angry, controlling persona (43:26).

9. Theo’s Journey: Rebellion, Doubt & Escape

• Early rebellious spirit—plans to escape via tandem bike at age 11 (!); skepticism began when friends disappeared (45:20).

• Endured inner turmoil: rebelled against the cult while fearing “damning her soul” due to indoctrination (46:31).

• Quote:
  “You live to die in Gloriavale. The only way you're going to get out...is to wish you could die.” – Theo (47:54)

• At 18, after defying the leadership and refusing to sign the commitment document, she was ostracized and pressured to leave. Secretly contacted her mother’s friend Keitha from a business card she’d hidden; left on a bus/plane to Auckland, having never traveled, with $200 and little sense of geography (54:12–59:03).

• Quote:
  “I didn’t even know where [Auckland] was in New Zealand...I just knew that my mum grew up there…” – Theo (55:16)

10. Out in the World: Rediscovering Self & Healing

• Overwhelming adjustment: first supermarkets, Easter decorations, strangers showing kindness—challenged everything she was taught (62:09; 60:29).
• Community with other survivors, therapy, education, and self-advocacy critical to her healing (69:47).
• Quote:
  “The only way to break that cycle was to do something about it...being listened to and heard and validated was that first point…” – Theo (69:47)

11. Exposing Abuse and Seeking Justice

• Learned the true extent of Cooper’s sexual abuse (66:14)—Gloriavale had covered the founder’s conviction as “persecution for faith”.
• Spoke out, gave statements to the police, advocated for other women and children, knowing “my voice matters” (67:50).
• Even after founder’s death, group continues under new, also abusive leadership (72:47).

12. Final Reflections

• Theo’s message: Cults and controlling environments exist in many forms. “Trust your gut...your experience is valid...you’re not alone.” (74:16)
• Quote:
  “So many people have so many different stories...once they’re out, they realize. But when you’re in it, you can’t see it the same.” – Theo (74:16)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (with timestamps)

• On Uniformity:
  “If you look at images...they're all in the same blue...they look like pilgrims.” – Lola (17:56)

• On Indoctrination:
  “We thought outsiders were evil...if we saw a family with only two kids, we thought women murdered their babies.” – Theo (20:13)

• On Rebellion:
  “I want to get my friends out of here...we just have to make it to the main road on the tandem bike...” – Theo (45:20)

• On Escape:
  “I'd never crossed the bridge by myself before...now I’m on a bus heading towards a city I don't even know where it is. I have full body goosebumps.” – Megan (59:03)

• On First Experience with Kindness:
  “That was when I realized...the outside world isn’t that bad. If a man can help me, then it mustn’t be that bad.” – Theo (60:29)

• On Individual Identity:
  “My birth name was Honey Faithful...supposed to be sweet and submissive.” – Theo (52:02)

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Notable Segment Timestamps

• Intro to Theo & Gloriavale: 12:02 – 19:52
• Uniformity & Education: 16:12 – 31:46
• Doctrine, Control, and Recruitment: 25:18 – 39:51
• Community Enforcement & Loneliness: 40:08 – 47:49
• Theo’s Rebellion & Escape Story: 45:20 – 59:03
• First Days After Leaving: 62:09 – 64:59
• Therapy, Healing, and Advocacy: 69:47 – 71:21
• Death of Neville Cooper & Cult Continuation: 71:28 – 73:49
• Final Insights: 74:16 – end

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Episode Takeaways

• Firsthand account of life inside a highly isolated, high-control group—Gloriavale’s practices mix elements of many notorious cults.
• Sharp analysis of indoctrination, enforced uniformity, and enforced mistrust among members.
• Theo’s resilience and resourcefulness in escaping, rebuilding her life, and becoming an outspoken advocate and author.
• Ongoing cycles of abuse and the difficulty of external intervention—emphasizing the urgent need for public awareness and survivor support.

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Further Information

• Theo Pratt’s book: Unveiled: A Story of Surviving Gloriavale
• Instagram: @lifeischoicenz
• Recommended docuseries: Gloriavale (available on Amazon; referenced by hosts)

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For listeners seeking understanding, support, or out of curiosity about high-control groups, this episode offers a rare, emotional, and insightful window into survival—and the power of reclaiming one’s story.

Transcript

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[Lola Blanc]

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[Theo Pratt]

So that means half day.

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[Lola Blanc]

Would I ever lead you astray?

[Theo Pratt]

Trust me, this is the truth.

[Matt Rogers]

The only truth.

[Lola Blanc]

If anybody ever tells you to just trust them, don't. Welcome to Trust Me, the podcast about cults. Extreme belief and manipulation from two rebels who've actually experienced it. And I am Lola Blanc.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I am Megan Elizabeth.

[Lola Blanc]

And today our guest is Theo Pratt, survivor of New Zealand religious cult Gloria Vale and writer of the book unveiled a story of surviving Gloria Vale. She is Going to tell us so much crazy stuff about growing up on the strictly controlled commune where girls and women all wore the same identical dress and head coverings, where people were assigned new names, where no one was taught the real days of the week, and where smacking ladies, as they were called, kept the children obedient.

[Megan Elizabeth]

The story is so wild and fascinating. She'll tell us about Neville Cooper's self proclaimed divine authority, her rebellious streak that led her to imagine escaping on a tandem bicycle. And how she felt when a documentary film crew came to record the community. Also the dramatic story of how she got out without even knowing where she was in the world. We have never had a conversation quite like this.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, it's. It's a really unique and harrowing and fascinating story. And we have both gotten so many DMs from people telling us to do an episode on Gloria Vale. So I'm really happy we have finally been able to do it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Me too. I had no idea.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, same, same. Well, we won't give too much away.

[Megan Elizabeth]

No, let's not.

[Theo Pratt]

So.

[Lola Blanc]

So before we talk to Theo, what's your cultiest thing? Megan.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay, so I've been following this story about the group, the University of Cosmic Intelligence, I do believe. We brought it up a couple of months ago because there were people missing and we haven't done too much of a deep dive on it. But essentially the leader has been arrested, but he's still running the group from jail.

[Lola Blanc]

Can. Can you give me a refresher on what happened to this group?

[Megan Elizabeth]

So there's this convicted child molester who claims to be a God sent to Earth. Perhaps you recognize the trope.

[Lola Blanc]

Sure.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Cult leader. Yeah, he started a new religious movement. It's called the University of Cosmic Intelligence. It's a pretty good name.

[Lola Blanc]

Pretty good name.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But. But he is in jail and what's been fascinating to me is how much he's been able to control his followers still from jail. And we see this with many different people. Keith or Neri Warren Jeffs. And I was kind of looking more into how does that actually work in their favor. And there are several ways that it does. The absence kind of makes their myth rise, you know, and then you kind of transference esque put more stuff onto them that maybe you wouldn't even.

[Lola Blanc]

What do you mean?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Like, I remember at the end of the Keith Renary Next Sam documentary, there was a woman who was kind of on the edge of getting out, but she seemed to be getting more caught up in his teachings when he wasn't around her. Because it was like she was filling in the blanks with what she needed and wanted to hear.

[Lola Blanc]

Like, people can just be the fantasy.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. So I'm interested to see how this continues to go. We would love to talk to a.

[Lola Blanc]

Survivor of this, certainly. But was there a news story, like, someone. It's come out that he's controlling them still?

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[Megan Elizabeth]

And just, you know, there's still six missing people.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my God.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's a deep dive.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

We need to talk to a survivor because there's lots of different elements at play in that group in particular. But I am just. I'm curious about that missing charismatic leader and them getting more powerful when they're gone.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, no, that's super interesting. The only thing I can liken it to is when you have a breakup and you're able to fantasize, oh, my God. And idealize the person because they're not there, like, nagging you or like, doing that annoying thing they do, so they become this, like, oh, what a beautiful relationship that was. And you're like, yeah. If you actually look at your whole journal entries, which I have had to do, you're like, no, no, that was not perfect. Yes. I imagine it's all much, much more heightened when it's your culture.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, it's a great. That's a great parallel. Thank you for bringing it back to real life, because I do the same shit. What about you? What's your cultiest thing of the week?

[Lola Blanc]

I was just looking at this article a few friends sent me, two of our previous guests. Actually, it's about them. It's a Guardian article about Patrick Ryan and Joseph Kelly, who are two ethical cult interventionists that we have previously had honest guests highly recommend their episode. It's been years at this point, but I just remember loving them. They're so amazing. It just kind of gets into what cult intervention looks like now because a lot of people still have this misconception of it as being this, like, 1970s deprogramming thing, which is not a thing anymore. It was very unethical, often very culty in itself. But, yeah, it just kind of like, goes through some stories of people they've done interventions with and how they try to do it ethically and, you know, it not always successfully. It's very difficult when you are trying to just reconnect people to their family versus, like, you know, beats new ideas into their head.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So what are some of the methods that they suggest?

[Lola Blanc]

Okay, so this part of that was interesting because I don't know if we talked about this when we did our episode. It says, for instance, one of the tricky parts they explained is communicating with the person who has been given tools to block out other people's perspectives. This set of tools or ideas is what they call a group's gatekeeper. In one case, they determined that the gatekeeper for one woman was that she perceived her spouse as dogmatic and fundamentalist, but not super spiritual. So what they did was they began to, like, try to help her husband be more spiritual, to reconnect with her so that he could be someone that she trusted more again.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's cool.

[Lola Blanc]

And, you know, I think this number might be a little excessive, but one of their ideas is a process called 50 things. You have to find 50 things that you can agree with the person on, because once you agree on what's good about X, Y and Z and so forth, then you're in more of a position to maybe offer some questions about that thing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Lola Blanc]

So it's just. It's just different versions of kind of the same stuff we talk about all the time, which is the human connection and not being too aggressive and fighting their ideas. They have had many experiences with clients who did push back too hard, and then they lost that family member to the cult for many, many years.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Heartbreaking.

[Lola Blanc]

But of course, it's not a one size fits all process. I'm sure they have myriad stories and I kind of think we should have them back on.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I do, too. I do, too. Let's do it.

[Lola Blanc]

Let's do it. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

What's the name of the article?

[Lola Blanc]

The name of the article is how do the pros get someone to leave a cult? Manipulate them into thinking it was their idea. It's on the Guardian, and Nick M. Nevis wrote it.

[Theo Pratt]

Ooh.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay. There's so much interesting stuff in there, and hopefully we'll talk to them again soon.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, let's do it. As for now, should we get into it with Theo?

[Lola Blanc]

Yes, we should.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Let's go.

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[Lola Blanc]

Welcome Theoprat to Trust me. Thank you so much for joining us from all the way across the world.

[Theo Pratt]

Kia ora. Yeah, thanks for having me.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. We were both fascinated by your story and by this group. I really didn't know anything about it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

We've been getting emails for years to.

[Lola Blanc]

Cover it and we just, like, didn't do it. We didn't.

[Megan Elizabeth]

We. And, and I think. And we'll get to this later. I think they did a really good job like kind of covering it as like a normal thing.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, we'll get to it. Okay.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

So you spent the first 18 years of your life in this cult in New Zealand. You call it a cult? Yes. Do you use that language?

[Theo Pratt]

Yes. Yeah. Okay.

[Lola Blanc]

It's a cult that is our first cult from that country.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

So can you first just start us off by telling us how your parents ended up in this group called Gloria Vale?

[Theo Pratt]

So they both joined separately. My mum was born in Auckland and the cult is in the south island, which is the lower part of New Zealand. And her best friends, family, the dad, they were joining and so she went with him to visit and just stayed. And then my dad was traveling around the south island and was, I think studying to be a medic at the time in the navy. And then the people who were already in the cult in Goreval were preaching at the square in the local city and he was there and sort of got roped in that way. And then he had packed up all the stuff and joined that week.

[Lola Blanc]

That week, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow. What do you think they were doing in the square that was compelling to your dad?

[Theo Pratt]

Well, I think Neville Cooper, the leader or his name, is often referred to as Hopeful Christian. I guess his personality is very like, enthusiastic and he has the ability to I guess capture people's attention and I guess make his story and his plans sound really good and that we're all there to look after each other and the world doesn't look after each other and we're going to be one big family and that sort of thing. And I guess when you don't have that connection with your own family and someone's offering you a new family, it sounds like a great idea.

[Lola Blanc]

Did your dad ever tell you what it was that he liked about it? What drew him to it? Was it that. Was it the family thing?

[Theo Pratt]

I think so. I mean, he was brought up religious as well and like his dad passed away when he was quite young and I guess it was a connection in that sense of family. But I think throughout my life, I mean, it's tricky to capture my father's what he experienced back then because right throughout my childhood and even right up until when I left Warravel, he was too like mentally unwell to fully express why he joined. So I guess it's a bit tricky to sort of explain.

[Lola Blanc]

Right, makes sense. So by the time that you were born, this group that this man, Neville Cooper, who goes by that other name or went by that other name, he had started the actual Gloria Vale location. Right. Like the farm when you were born.

[Theo Pratt]

Yes. So they originally started on a less rural property and they had their own individual places, but by the time I was born, they were in the more rural location where it is now. And we're all living more together.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And how rural are we talking? What's the landscape?

[Theo Pratt]

The landscape? So they sit in a valley, so it's surrounded by mountains, so there's no wifi coverage or cell phone coverage. And in the closest town is about a 40 minute drive. So it's all gravel roads and. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Wow.

[Theo Pratt]

It's quite rural. Being rural, that's.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I didn't comprehend how that's a true cult.

[Lola Blanc]

Like a cult compound. That's like the movie version of living in a cult.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, I mean, so much of the story is just cult times two, you know what I mean? It's Just this man made the most extreme cult.

[Lola Blanc]

Totally.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's crazy.

[Lola Blanc]

Can you tell us a little bit about just, like, growing up in this group? Like, what was life like for a child in general?

[Theo Pratt]

Life was, like, quite exciting and, like, you were in nature and, like, you spent your days with your friends in the outdoors and stuff. But very quickly, I think by the age of around 5, 6, and when you start going to school in Glorivale, so the school's part of Glorivale, you have to wear, like, a head covering as a girl. And I think that's when it sort of sinks in that the very. The difference between men and women and girls and boys, how women are under men and under God and under their father in that real different sort of kicks in even from a very young age. And then also the thing of that we all the same. No one could be different. No one has their own, I guess, strengths or whatever. We're all the same. I remember 5 years old being told that I was never allowed to have a best friend or never allowed to have someone that I was closer to than anyone else. Wow. So as much as, like, life was really fun and stuff, there was also these underlying things that you're sort of always afraid or scared of what was going to happen.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

The dress code is super fascinating to me because I think often when we picture, like, the long dresses in a cult, we picture the flds, and at least the flds can choose the color of their dress.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

And in this group, if you look at images or videos of the women and girls, they're all in the same. Same color, dark blue, like, pilgrim dress, with this, like, head covering. They look like pilgrims, would you say? Right, Megan?

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

It's like just another level, I guess, of cohesion and everybody looking the same.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And he unlocked a new level in so many areas.

[Theo Pratt]

Like, wow.

[Lola Blanc]

Like, a lot of groups will be like, you have to wear this, but, like, express yourself within that, you know?

[Megan Elizabeth]

And we see a lot of, like. But not in red, but this man was like, I like blue.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, it'll all be blue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think it's also a way to, like, separate you even more. And, like, if you're ever out in the. In the outside world, it's really segregated you from everyone else in a way. So it's also being the same within community, but also really making that point that you're not of the world.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Right.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

What did the boys and men wear? Did they all have to wear the same thing or did they have some freedom in their clothing.

[Theo Pratt]

No, they all sort of wore the same thing, so it tended to be like dark navy blue trousers and like a light blue shirt.

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Theo Pratt]

But it couldn't be jeans. He hated jeans for some reason.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Why do you think he hated jeans? Do you have any theories?

[Theo Pratt]

I don't know. I think he said it was like the worldly people had genes.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. So the goal was for people to see you as different or for you guys to be separated from everyone. Like, what do you think he wanted from that?

[Theo Pratt]

I think part of it was that he wanted us to be seen as different, but also us to know that we were different as well. So I think it was like a.

[Lola Blanc]

Two way thing to be isolated.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And how did you guys perceive the outside world?

[Theo Pratt]

We perceived it as like everyone was evil and everyone was going to hell and everyone was sad and. Yeah, just that everyone was just evil.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, man, was that scary. Like, when you would see people on the outside, were you afraid of them?

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, definitely. And I think even, like thinking about it in terms of how we view people, they used to preach that birth control was evil and contraception and that women literally murdered their babies. And so, like, if people ever visited, like, thinking about how we viewed people on the outside, if we saw a family and they only like had two kids or they didn't have kids, we literally used to think that these women were murdered, like, flushing whole babies down the toilet because that's what we were told. And like, showed videos of like, I think even that part. You used to look at people on the outside and think, like, that's how evil they are. They literally murder their kids.

[Lola Blanc]

That's so crazy.

[Theo Pratt]

And so like, that sort of brainwashing and that fear of the outside was really ingrained in us from like, really young.

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[Lola Blanc]

Can I ask you, because I was watching the series on Amazon that's just called Gloria Vale and were there shows that were put on by the group for the outside world? Can you talk about those? Because that seems like such a contradiction of sorts.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, so they used to have these shows that they put on every second year and it was in wintertime in New Zealand and so they would open up for anyone on the outside to come and it was almost like a way to recruit people. Not that they ever did, but it was their way to recruit people and I guess show people that it's a great place to live and a way to like preach the gospel to the world sort of thing.

[Lola Blanc]

So all these outsiders would be coming into your community. That seems scary given the framework that you were given.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, so it was almost like a time for young people and people in Goraval to like prove to the leader that they were supportive of the church and like, for them to like preach to all these people. Like afterwards there would be like hours where like lots of people from Gauravar would go among everyone and preach to them to like try and convert them. Wow.

[Megan Elizabeth]

What was the, like, main message that y' all were preaching? That he was trying to get out to people?

[Theo Pratt]

Pretty much. Like, I think a lot of it was like that the Lord was going to return and if they didn't get saved, then they're all going to hell. So that real fear based message of like joining the church is the only.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Way and this is. This Gloria Villa is the only way.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah. We were pretty much taught that within New Zealand, we were the only true Christians. And then the other true Christians in the world were, like, the Jews that. Or like, churches in Middle Eastern countries or whatever that were being persecuted for their faith. Other than that, we were, like, the only true church of God.

[Lola Blanc]

That's an interesting combination.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. The team ideas are kind of similar.

[Lola Blanc]

Really? Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about, like, on paper, these beliefs sound pretty run of the mill for a lot of, like, evangelical Christian groups. But obviously, like, the way they're put into practice is a lot more extreme. But what are some of the basic beliefs of the group that we should.

[Theo Pratt]

Be like in the world, but not of it? But also that whole thing around baptism, like choosing when you get baptized, being separate from the world, and just like the whole arranged marriage thing, but it's all sort of based off the New Testament, apparently. And then they made their own, like, what We Believe, which was, like, this big book that they made, which had some New Testament and then some of their own versions of what they thought how you should live. And then they had a commitment document that you signed around the age 16 to 18 that you have to sign if you want to, like, get married or be part of the church or whatever. Yeah. So that. And. And then in general, they believed that once you signed that document, if you left the community, you were damning your own soul to hell. And then also your children, if you had children, also your children, what your.

[Lola Blanc]

Children have to do with it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's not fair.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I mean, none of it's fair.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah. They used to preach that. It's because as parents, if your children, I guess, at the time, weren't baptized. So they believe once you baptize yourself, then you cover your own soul in terms of salvation and getting to heaven. But if you have young children, then you're their way to heaven. So that's why it's based off how you, as parents, behave.

[Lola Blanc]

Interesting. What were you gonna say, Megan?

[Megan Elizabeth]

I was going to say the commitment document was so interesting because it seems like when the community moved to Gloriaville, it became something where, like, all of the income streams went to the same place with the cult. And this commitment is kind of also saying, financially, here is all of my life and all of my money. Yeah.

[Theo Pratt]

And that's sort of where it came from. I mean, once the more generations were born into, it sort of didn't make sense in terms of giving all your money. Cause you didn't really have any to begin with, but it was more just that control as well.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, I mean there's a lot of overlap. I mean I'm hearing certain things that overlap with the two by twos, with Megan's group, Wild, but. And there's also a lot of overlap with, with fundamentalist Mormons and in particular the flds, because at least the way that used to be, because it was a very contained community where all the money went back into the community and nobody really had their own money. It all would go into this like, trust that the church owned. So were people working? And like, what if you needed clothes? Like how, how would it work economically? I guess.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah. So the. They had their main, like businesses which was farming. And then the other way they earned their money was that in, in New Zealand when you have kids, you get a subsidy per child depending on what your husband earns. They would always put all the men on really low incomes. And then they, they don't believe in contraception, so they get all the money from that as well. And then it all comes into one bank account or however they work it. But. So there's one person that buys everything for everyone and then all the clothes are made in Lorivale.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, that makes sense I guess, given the uniform.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, yeah. So it's all made and then everything else is communal. So like all the meals, all the washing's done communally.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, because it's a farm. There's cows, there's dairy cows, there's meat.

[Theo Pratt]

Like it's a self sustaining. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they had their own electricity and own water supply and then all of that was sort of the same. But obviously they don't watch tv. We had movies, but they were all edited. No, in, they. They edited all the movies and they tended to be like war movies or movies about people dying or bad things happening in the world. Like 9 11. They played 911 or. But it was edited as well. And then like they couldn't. We couldn't watch movies. We like, you know, kids movies where animals talk. Yeah, you couldn't watch things like that. Oh, why, Eva?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Why?

[Lola Blanc]

Because that was not God.

[Theo Pratt]

Animals don't talk. Humans can't talk to animals. How can humans have a connection with animals? Even like the kids books were all edited because they don't believe in birthdays or women wearing jeans or the days of the weeks are changed. So in Goraval, the days of the week is first day, second day, third day. And then the months of the year are like first month, second month, third month. So yeah, all the kids books and all our books were edited. So for example, if it had it's so and so's birthday, happy birthday, then they would twink over that. Or if a woman was wearing jeans and a book, it was to. We had to draw and we drew skirts over top. Wow. Everything was edited. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

How did they edit the 911 footage? Just out of curiosity, what was the purpose there?

[Theo Pratt]

I don't know. Like, they just would go into like, things where. I don't know what part of that they might have edited.

[Lola Blanc]

Got you.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Got you.

[Theo Pratt]

They would edit out things like sexual scenes or scenes where it talks about the world being millions of years old or. Or any facts that they didn't really believe in. And that's how it went. Like, things like that.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. So it's not just like sex and violence. It's like any belief system we don't like.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And animals talking.

[Lola Blanc]

And animals talking.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Very evil.

[Lola Blanc]

Shitty.

[Theo Pratt]

It's so fun to see animals talking.

[Lola Blanc]

I know, they're so cute.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I loved how in the book you guys would like hold up the, you know, skirts that you'd drawn on over the thing to the light to like see where the jeans were. Because kids are curious and they're like, oh my gosh, like, it's jeans. And also I. I think it's a really important point to make that you're being schooled through the system. You're being taught first day, second day, third day. So if you go try to join the world, you already are like, what's a Wednesday?

[Lola Blanc]

Like, yeah, had you heard Wednesday? Like, did you know the names of. Of the week?

[Theo Pratt]

No, I knew that, like, you hear sort of like from holding up the books, you can see other days of the week, you don't really know what is what or. Right. What day is for what or anything. So you had to learn it all.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That is unbelievable.

[Lola Blanc]

The disorientation.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's unbelievable.

[Lola Blanc]

Upon leaving a group like that. Sounds. Well, we'll get into that. But that's crazy.

[Megan Elizabeth]

You are one of my favorite characters of all time. Like, you're. You are like punk rock. I don't know. There is something so incredible about this.

[Theo Pratt]

Story that I've not.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I've never seen anybody do anything like this. So, yeah, we'll get into it. What else should we set up?

[Lola Blanc]

Well, I want to hear a little bit about. I mean, so many groups have this. But again, this is like a more extreme version, like the way that women are expected to have children and have children and have children and go back to Work, like kind of immediately after having children. Can you talk about women's role in the community and what was expected?

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, like women are expected to go to work right away and that we all can look after each other and we're one big family. Because they didn't really want families to be their own, I guess, family. So if you put all kids together and put the woman back to work, like even. It didn't even make sense. Married woman. Like married women that have had kids, obviously they'll call. Married women were sent back to work and then young, like 12 year old, 13 year old girls would have to look after their kids so that the mums could work. Which doesn't even really make sense in a way, but anything to sort of stop a connection between like a mother and child or a family. I think that's sort of like the game behind it.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's very Children of God esque where they are like, you know, it was just like the family unit doesn't matter. That's the kids table. You guys just like so sick.

[Lola Blanc]

The sea organ, Scientology. I feel there's just echoes of every other cult. In this cult. It's got all the things packed together.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And then the work that y' all were required to do and that the women were required to do directly after giving birth. And of course you're not supposed to give birth at a hospital, you're supposed to do it at home and you were born in a hospital because you're a rebel.

[Lola Blanc]

What would it mean if a woman had. About the woman, if she had the baby in the hospital, it would mean.

[Theo Pratt]

That she obviously didn't have faith in God or that she didn't believe in the church or like. Yeah, it was like shame on the woman. And not necessarily even the husband or the father. It was all the woman's fault for not having faith.

[Lola Blanc]

So if something goes wrong with your pregnancy and you have to go to the hospital, that means you're a sinner and you've done something wrong.

[Theo Pratt]

That's. Yeah. And all that. You weren't willing to push through the pain or like push through to. To have your baby naturally or at home. And so you wanted to rely on. Rather instead of relying on God to give you strength, you had to rely on the hospital system.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh my gosh. Did you see anyone be put in danger because they didn't want to end up in the hospital because they didn't want that stigma?

[Theo Pratt]

You often saw that during pregnancies. So for example, I remember seeing women who were having babies that had been told that they should not have any more babies, that their pregnancies infected them, like made their lives so bad that like their legs would burst and like there would just be blood everywhere, like from their veins or like women that couldn't walk their whole pregnancies and women that just were bleeding, like just I think just that care of women and that they just had to carry on. And these women would literally just carry on doing the washing or doing the cooking or cleaning with their legs bleeding out. Whoa. They were just like, God's going to save me. I'm putting my faith in God.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Even if God didn't save you, if you die, that's like God's will.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, exactly.

[Lola Blanc]

And what if you get sick just like as a non mother, like if you have to go to the ER and you're a dude, I guess, like what happens? What does that mean anything?

[Theo Pratt]

They typically didn't go, like often wouldn't go to the hospital, the district, like the nurses from the outside would come in or they would do regular visits. Sometimes I think once a month a doctor used to come in. But even in those appointments you had to get approval to go to that appointment. And then your might, like as a child, your mum might go with you to the appointment, but you still had to have another woman or another person assigned by the leaders to sit in. So you, even in those appointments, you never were alone to actually express what was happening. There was always someone else that gave you approval to what you could talk about or. Or what you could access.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow.

[Theo Pratt]

And then things like needing to go, the dentist or anything like that had to all be approved. So it really depended on who you were related to. If you were like the leader's children or family, you had better access to health care. So like the hierarchy system was definitely real. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow. The level of control is so tight in terms of ability to communicate with the outside, but also just with each other. I mean, that sounds so suffocating to experience. I was gonna say to grow up in. But no, definitely also for the adults. It just sounds suffocating.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Were you in the group when the docuseries that I watched was filmed?

[Theo Pratt]

Was that the three part one?

[Lola Blanc]

Yes. I watched episode one. It was 2012.

[Theo Pratt]

I think I would have been there.

[Lola Blanc]

Do you remember any of that filming or like what the leader thought of that?

[Theo Pratt]

They controlled everything that got put in and everywhere the film crew went, they went. And all the interviews were obviously people that did them were all chosen. I think in the later episodes, some of them were done. Just not long before I left, I remember thinking, I do not want to be in these documentaries because I would just come into the kitchen and film, and I. I knew that I was going to leave soon, so I didn't want to be in them. I remember I was making cheese at the time, and they wanted to come and film me making cheese. And I just keep, like, making up excuses. Oh, no, I'm not doing anything excite. Like, the cheese is still sitting or whatever it was up to, Because I just did not want to represent Glory Bell at all. But at the same time, you felt like when the cameras are going around like you're an animal in a zoo. Like, you just felt like people just wanted to watch you or look at you, and you were just like this weird animal in the zoo sort of vibe.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. I mean, it's fascinating to watch because you. I mean, there's a young man talking about his arranged marriage and how excited he is for his marriage to be arranged, and he's got, like, three options of girls. And, you know, like the whole thing just feels so, so, so, so staged propaganda. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every word out of somebody's mouth is like, I love being here. It's wonderful, you know?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, and he might. A man might like being there if.

[Lola Blanc]

He'S, you know, but even, you know, he obviously even didn't have the freedom, you know, to make the choices.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, and that was an interesting point you made that people aren't really allowed to talk to each other because you're supposed to snitch on each other. Correct?

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

You don't really know how anybody feels about anything.

[Theo Pratt]

Not really.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's scary.

[Theo Pratt]

Not deep down. You never know.

[Lola Blanc]

So was that incredibly lonely growing up? Like, how do you function when you are kept from having meaningful connection with your family and people in your community?

[Theo Pratt]

I think, well, I functioned by going into the bush, and I also functioned by, like, writing things down. But then even with writing things, like, my mom used to find what I had written and, like, get rid of it, because she was like, what if someone comes to our room and looks through things? You'll be in trouble. And so even in that case, you just didn't. There was no way to fully be yourself. I mean, I was lucky. I had a few really close friends, but they always want you to, like, tell on your friend, or they'll manipulate at you and be like, you can tell us anything. We won't tell any other leaders. We're on your side. So then you tell them how you really feel. And then it blows up. Like, I remember supporting one of my friends and saying, like, it's not fair how she's being treated and. Or something like that. Like, family should be able to talk to everyone and stuff. And then the next day, my friend was kicked out because I had sort of, like, supported her and, like, tried to help her, but because I did that, she had to go, oh, no. So it's like you never knew. Like, you think you're helping someone, but it could backfire at any time.

[Lola Blanc]

I wanna know about Neville. Neville Cooper, who, while he was in the group, he changed his name to Hopeful Christian. How did you see him growing up? What was he to everybody?

[Theo Pratt]

He was supposed to be, like, the grandfather figure to everyone. We sort of saw him, like, as just a very scary person in that you just didn't know what he was gonna do. But he also was, like, fun and, like, just very erratic. Like, he would be like, let's play. The brass band's gonna come out and play everyone a song in the middle of breakfast. Or, let's march around the buildings and sing a song. Which, as a child, you sort of, like, think that's exciting. But as you get older, it's sort of like you just didn't know what he was gonna be like. And then growing up, you always feel like he's, like, the person that's never gonna die. The Lord's gonna come back before he ever dies. And he's like the ultimate person. But, yeah, as we got older, we definitely referred to, like, him and the leaders as SS officers, like, Secret Service, because. And I remember he often, in meetings would be like, everyone say, praise God. And I remember always being, like, under my breath because obviously they showed us all the footage of the Holocaust, and we. Under my breath, me and my friends used to be like, hi, Hitler. Like, because that's sort of like the vibe he gave. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, he's definitely serving something similar.

[Lola Blanc]

Did you find him? Like, did you believe that he had any special power?

[Theo Pratt]

I mean, when I was younger, you sort of did, like, you think. Thought that he knew what he was talking about and God definitely gave him visions. But as you get older, you realize he's just, like, a very angry person. And if it doesn't go his way, then it's over.

[Lola Blanc]

I would love to know more about your rebellious spirit.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

And when that began and how that evolved as you got older.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, I think it sort of began from a very young age, like, without me realizing. Like, even I look back, they used to make these things Called portfolios for, like, when you're in preschool about your development and, like, I don't know, your pictures in them and stuff. And they used to put, like, little quotes or little things that you did. And some were like. I was like, three or four, and some of them were like, doesn't like to show any affection, can be cautious to accept love from anyone or. And other things were, like. Likes to do ugly little things to people sometimes.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Who doesn't like to do things to people sometimes? It's called being a person.

[Theo Pratt]

A person.

[Megan Elizabeth]

In preschool.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah. And then, I mean, when I was about five or six, I remember watching these boys in my class make fun of, like, one of the other girls, and I remember telling the boy, I'm gonna get a machete and cut your head off.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yes. I'm so obsessed with you.

[Theo Pratt]

And I've been taken into, like, the. The cupboard and being, like, given a hiding. But I literally like my brother because I had older brothers and they had machetes.

[Lola Blanc]

Literally.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah.

[Theo Pratt]

So I think those things from young. But then as I got older, like, I think it was around 11:12, one of my best friend's family disappeared overnight. And after that, I remember we used to have tangent bikes where, like, a few of you ride the bike. And I remember thinking, I want to get my friends out of here. We just have to make it to the main road, and then we can get help. And I remember trying to bike me and my friends down, like, out of the community, which was, like, a good ages away.

[Megan Elizabeth]

On a tandem bike.

[Theo Pratt]

Then my friends. Yeah, on the bike. Wow. But then my friends, like, just stopped biking. Like, they wouldn't help me. And they were like, where are you taking us? And I was like, I'm trying to get us out of there. But then they all refused. So then that didn't happen.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That sucks.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

You made a valiant effort, damn it. It was admirable.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And you need everybody to participate on a tandem bike.

[Lola Blanc]

Just the image of the three of you.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's a movie. Like, you have to.

[Lola Blanc]

It's such a movie in the cost, in the outfits. I mean, wow, what an image. So you kind of stopped believing in it then, right? You were, like, out on that.

[Theo Pratt]

But at the same time, I was so terrified that, like, Neville Cooper used to preach about. I mean, I got baptized, I think, at 9. And so obviously after that, you're in charge of your soul and whether you get to heaven. And I. I did in some ways believe Neville Cooper was right in the way that he used to preach that if you took communion unworthily, you would die in your sleep that night. So, like every night on Sunday night, I'd be worried that I was gonna die. So, like, there was that rebellious thing of, like, wanting to get out, but also that experience of, like, being so scared.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I completely worried.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, that's exactly this mixed thing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yep.

[Theo Pratt]

I had a cousin who had really fierce skin. And I always used to think that it was because she had no sin, because to be pure and white. And so I think. And just punishing yourself so working really long hours or, like, doing things to, like, prove to people, I thought that that was the way that I would get God's help or God's attention and get to heaven. So you sort of do things to almost not talk to yourself, but you think that's the way you're gonna get to heaven?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

[Lola Blanc]

Is it the more that you suffer, the more virtuous you are?

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, yeah, almost. When I write about in my book, like, you live to die in Goravale, like, the only way you're going to get out of Goravel, life's. When life was so shit in Goraval and you feel like you just can't go on. You just wish you could die because that's the only way out of this life. So, yeah, it's a weird thing, sort of to experience at such a young age.

[Lola Blanc]

Is the Gloriavale heaven a cool place at least? Like, what are they marketing the afterlife as?

[Theo Pratt]

Just like, that we're gonna be with the angels and God and we're all gonna be pure and there's gonna be no more tears and no more sorrow. That sort of vibe.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That was the two by two line. No more tears, no more sorrow.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow. I feel like there have been a couple of the same. I feel very.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. I mean, yeah. Were there, like, times of levity? Because I realized in the two by twos, by making it so starkly dark and sad, when something slightly funny did happen, it was like, so funny. So, for example, in the two by twos, you have to choose to get baptized. And once you choose, you are responsible for your own soul. It's a very big deal. You don't do it in childhood. You, like, do it as an adult that has chosen. And so my sister made her choice to get baptized and she was walking out to do it and she fell and so she baptized herself. And like, everyone, like, no one could pro. Like, it was very funny. Was there levity to anything in that way?

[Lola Blanc]

Were people laughing, though? I have to know.

[Megan Elizabeth]

People Were swallowing it. People like. It was like people were dying.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Was there a sense of any levity or was like that not even an option? Because this seems like a much higher control group.

[Theo Pratt]

They didn't seem to be like a good sense of humor. But we used to have celebration days, so like days where they'd blow up bouncy castles and like, you'd get lollies and like, I don't know, it's just like a day of no work. And it was like supposed to be fun. And that was sort of the way that if something like as you said, like there had been like this bad time or someone had died or people had left, that was sort of Neville Cooper's way of like making everyone feel happy again and like bringing everyone back together that it's all okay and we're all happy. And then the other time they really celebrated things was when people got married. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, and what a great encouragement to get married then too.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Like, that's the one time we have a party. No, let's have fun. I'll get married. My arranged partner.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. It sounds like he was chaotic, so, like there'd be like little bursts of fun. And then you didn't know when you were gonna be. Have to be afraid again.

[Megan Elizabeth]

He's a weaver of trauma bonds.

[Lola Blanc]

I was gonna. Yeah, that's how you keep people controlled.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Is mastermind.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, yeah. Can you tell us your. Your parents had normal names before they joined the group? What were their names after they joined the group?

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, so after they joined the group, my mum's name was Humility. They got married and their married name was Faithful. So they were Humility Faithful. So that was our family name. And then my dad's name was Semi Normal Peter.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, your dad got to be Peter. Okay.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah. And then last name Faithful.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And the reason that he changed people's name was from the Bible. Where was it Simon became Peter. Jesus made Simon become Peter. So I guess Peter would be a sensical name and that, right?

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

But we have Hopeful Christian Humility Faithful. I mean, were there a lot of other names like that?

[Theo Pratt]

Very bizarre names like Beloved, Righteous, Kindness, Submissive. Submissive Submitted, which is terrible. Wow. Shows how naive they are.

[Lola Blanc]

So crazy.

[Theo Pratt]

Submitted. All Truthful, all those that like attribute names almost. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Were you meant to live up to the specific thing that your name was?

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah. So like my birth name was Honey Faithful.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Honey Honey.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah. So I was supposed to be sweet and submissive. I've forgotten the Bible verse, but it's Something about sweet to your taste, like honeycomb or something. Like how your words are supposed to be kind and. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Which is like keep sweet. I mean, all of it is just a way to strip individual identity and make people just be like a. What's the word that I want?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Copy. Carbon copy.

[Lola Blanc]

Sure, let's go with that. Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Robot carbon copy.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, yeah. Robots.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, totally. Can you tell us what smacking ladies were?

[Theo Pratt]

What? Oh, oh, the woman that replace your parents, if they were away, then they would be the smacking ladies. Is that what you're meaning?

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Theo Pratt]

So in priest, like when you're in preschool and you did something bad, the teachers wouldn't smack you, but they'd try and get either your mum to come or they would have an assigned lady that would be the one to come if your parents are away or weren't around or whatever that. That they would be the smacking lady. So it was normally like older women in the community or women that hadn't gotten married for some reason, then they would be the smacking lady.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So we have spiritual, mental, then physical abuse at a very insane level.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And of course we get into. There is sexual abuse. I mean, every abuse imaginable is just running rampant in this community.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Did you have an inkling that the leader had gone to prison before while you were still in the group?

[Theo Pratt]

I sort of knew about it, but not the extent of it, because growing up we were always taught that we knew that he went to prison, but we didn't know why. We were taught that he went to prison because he was being persecuted for his faith. That's what we were told.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Can you tell us a bit about how you decided to leave and how you left?

[Lola Blanc]

Left.

[Theo Pratt]

So it was a bit of a long journey in terms of. I knew that I wanted to leave eventually from about the age of 14, but I didn't know how that would look like. I think knowing that once I left I was going to be cut off from my family was quite a lot to get your head around. Yeah, for me. So trying to push it out as long as I could was like the hardest thing. So it was definitely the longest four years of my life and there was a couple of times where I almost leave, like getting secret leaders out to start my. Because I had a brother that left before me and he came to pick me up once and then the leaders found out and they all went down to the gate and like parked cars along and like stopped it from happening. And so then I was like, no, I'm not going to go, not right now. I was like, I don't want to go like this.

[Lola Blanc]

He was trying to get you out officially, like, not just hang out with you.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, he was going to come pick me up. Oh, wow. But, yeah, the leaders weren't going to have that.

[Megan Elizabeth]

An important aside is that there were watchmen too. So I'll just throw that out there. That there was people guarding this.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Theo Pratt]

Yes. As a girl and as a woman in Glorival, there's not really a chance for you to get out. Like, there's always mean on the bridge at night. And then as a girl and woman in Glorivale, you couldn't really walk past a certain part on the property without having a married lady or your father with you. So if you were seen trying to get out, like, to get out, you have to go past that point. So you really had to do it in a secret way, which made it really tricky. But how it sort of came out that how I eventually left was at 18, something happened. I think a friend had come in who had left and they came back into the community and the leaders were trying to find him and they knew that I was friends with him and they asked me, oh, do you know where he is? Where is he hiding? And I was like, oh, no, I don't know where he is. But if I did, I wouldn't tell you anyway. And then that comment just blew up. And I was on dishes at the time, so I was like, doing all the breakfast dishes. And next thing I just had, like, Neville Cooper coming up to me, like, screaming and, like, yelling and like, saying, like, I hated the church, I hated my family and all this stuff. And, like, I had about four leaders do that and their wives. And then they told me I had to go home. They don't want anyone around me because I was evil. And then they arranged for like, a leaders meeting that night. So it was a Friday night and those meetings went for, like, about three to four hours. And they were trying to get out of me or convince me. It was all just bizarre. And by the end of the meeting, they said, we want you to sign the commitment or you've got to go. So pretty much that was a Friday, and they wanted me to sign it in front of the community on a Sunday. And by set, I mean I knew I wasn't going to sign it. By the Saturday, I was like, told them I'm not going to. And so on Sunday, I had to pack what I had. Not that I Had much. I couldn't say goodbye to any of my friends. I got to see a couple of them and then they realized and sent men to stand outside my family's bedroom door to stop me. And I just had to pack my stuff. And then the next day I was dropped off at a bus stop at the local town and they tried to send me to another place in New Zealand. Thankfully they booked me tickets to Auckland, which I didn't even really know, which is a plane ride away from where Gorabao is. It's the biggest city in New Zealand and I didn't even know where that was in New Zealand. I didn't even know if it was in New Zealand. I just knew that that was where my mum grew up and that my grandparents were potentially there and I'd never meet them. So they sent me there, thankfully. You know how they had those concerts. One of my mum's school friends came to the concert and she was a real estate agent and she had her business card. At 14 she came. I keep one of her business cards. I taped it to the bottom of my drawer. You know when you pull out a drawer and there's that space, So I put it there. Wow. So then when I left, I had that card and she came to pick me up from the airport.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And this is Keitha.

[Theo Pratt]

Yes, Keitha.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So you've never been on a bus before? You've never been on a plane and there's a bridge separating the cult from the rest of the world? Correct. I'm just.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Theo Pratt]

So yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

You've never really like crossed the bridge by yourself before my foot. And now you're on a bus heading towards a plane heading towards a city that you don't even know where it is. I have full body goosebumps.

[Lola Blanc]

That's crazy. I keep saying crazy.

[Theo Pratt]

Low key. Terrifying.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. What is?

[Theo Pratt]

You're also in this, like, adrenaline. Like I was like, it's actually happening. It's finally happening and you're just living off this adrenaline. When I got to, Christ, the airport that I was going to via the bus, I got there and I had this really old suitcase that they gave me and I was trying to carry it and this man came up behind me and helped me. And that was sort of when I realized, oh, shit, I'm on my own and a man of all things is helping me. And that was sort of the first sort of seed of like, the outside world isn't that bad. If a man can help me, then it mustn't be that bad. Like just Someone helping me put my bag on the trolley. Wow. Was like the first thing to be like, okay, I'm gonna be okay. Wow. If a man can help me because.

[Lola Blanc]

You were told that they would all be evil or attacking.

[Theo Pratt]

You just had never experienced a positive, I guess, experience with a man actually genuinely helping a woman without it giving him some benefit.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Theo Pratt]

So for a man just to help me because he saw I needed help was like, so foreign.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, my gosh, Megan's crying. I'm just like, the logistics of it all are, like, overwhelming me imagining being in your position. One time I had a breakup in New York. I weirdly was talking about this today, and I had no money and my ex left me in a hotel with no money. And I didn't know like, how to get to my friends houses and I know people in New York and I had a cell phone.

[Megan Elizabeth]

And I like, you still were like.

[Lola Blanc]

And I was like, ah, I ended up on a wrong bus somewhere in New Jersey. But like, I still could call my friend and I knew where I was in the world. You know, like what you were experiencing, knowing no one, knowing nothing. I mean, it's just like the disorientation sounds so. So next level.

[Megan Elizabeth]

But you knew Keitha and she comes and gets you.

[Lola Blanc]

But did you call her once you landed or before you left?

[Theo Pratt]

So thankfully my mum rung her off a Glorival landline phone or whatever to say, like, I'm coming, can you pick my daughter up?

[Lola Blanc]

Okay.

[Theo Pratt]

That was sort of all they knew at that time.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Her and her husband.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, her and her husband. So they just came to pick me up.

[Narrator/Advertiser]

Okay.

[Theo Pratt]

But I didn't have a cell phone. Like, I didn't have that because they don't have cell phones in Glorivale. They gave me about $200 and that was it. I didn't even have my birth certificate at that point. My God. So I had nothing.

[Lola Blanc]

So what happened? Like, tell us about those first days of being out. What was that? Like?

[Theo Pratt]

It was exciting, but also like, crazy. The first thing we did that night when they picked me up was take me to like, one of the biggest supermarkets in New Zealand. I had never really been into a supermarket. And they were just like, choose whatever food you want. And I was just like, I do not know what to choose.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Theo Pratt]

And I think there was Easter decorations up and I didn't know what Easter was. And I was like, why are all these bunnies? Why are there bunnies in the supermarket?

[Lola Blanc]

These outsiders are weird.

[Theo Pratt]

So I think I just spent those first few days just like looking at everything and like just taking it all in. I think I feel like the first sort of year was like a blur in terms of all the new experiences I had. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Were you living. Did you stay with Keitha for a while?

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, I think I stayed with him just. Just under a year and then I went flatter. But yeah, those first few weeks they thought that I was. They were going to drop me back at the airport. They were like, oh, when are you going to go? When are you going home? When do we need to drop you back?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Surprise. Never.

[Lola Blanc]

I'm your daughter now.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, but they seem to have loved it. Like, it seems like they, they really enjoyed.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

You being there.

[Theo Pratt]

Lucky I had them. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I. I don't know if this is the right metaphor. I'm not gonna say it.

[Theo Pratt]

Well, I don't know.

[Lola Blanc]

I know I need to know.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Do you ever like, have you included. Do you ever have like a fantasy of somebody from back in time coming and you get to show them everything?

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

That's how I would feel if you showed up at my house. You know what I mean?

[Lola Blanc]

Like, I'd be like, this is this.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Like, I'd be so excited.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Did you, did you get a job? Like, how did you get situated in your life? This, like just that, that period of just like, what am I? Who am I? Where am I? Just is so interesting to me.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah. I think I didn't get a job for a while. I started studying pretty much straight away. So I studied like early childcare education, like a diploma or whatever it was. And then I started just doing nannying work because that was sort of. I was like, I know what I can do. Well, I can look after kids.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Theo Pratt]

Cousin Guerrill, Women aren't really allowed to study or have a degree or anything, only if they're chosen. And the degree they only could do was early childcare. But I really wanted to study, so I just started there and then from there I sort of. I guess I just. My world opened up and that was. I got. I met people, I got a job and got experience on the outside, which then enabled me to get another job. And it sort of just grew from there.

[Lola Blanc]

Like, what kind of foundation of education did you have from being in Gloriavale?

[Theo Pratt]

So in Gloriavale you sort of have like a very strict education early on in terms of writing and maths and English, that like that sort of stuff. Okay. But once you get to like high school, college age, education isn't important because you only need skills to Be a mother to cook and to clean and to sew. So. And Neville Cooper didn't really want people that were smarter than him.

[Lola Blanc]

Right.

[Theo Pratt]

Girls just did, like, English and maths and cooking, cleaning. We got those sort of things. And then girls who weren't allowed to do science or anything like that. I think the only science y sort of thing we did was learn how to make soap. Soap, yeah. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay.

[Theo Pratt]

The boys got science, but girls didn't. And then you leave school at about 15 and start working.

[Lola Blanc]

I think it's important to touch on when you learned the truth about Mr. Cooper and what his actual, quote, persecution was.

[Megan Elizabeth]

His jail time. Yeah, yeah.

[Theo Pratt]

In Glorival, I sort of figured out that he must have done something more than just be persecuted. Cause I had a couple of my other people I know approach him about what actually really happened, and they were kicked out. Oh, so you knew that something more was going on. Cause when people questioned him, it wasn't Right. So then word went around that it was something to do with sexual abuse. It wasn't till after I left that I read a book that his son wrote or was involved in writing called the Sins of My Father, that I read the full extent of what really went on in the beginning of Gorraval and, like, throughout Gorraval, which sort of all made sense in a way, which then sort of unfolded until, like, what else has he lied about? Or what else has all just not been true?

[Lola Blanc]

So he went to prison for sexual abuse.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

And then came back from prison when he got out early, right?

[Theo Pratt]

Yes.

[Lola Blanc]

He was supposed to serve years, and he served, like, less than a year, I wanna say. Yeah. And then was like, all right, we're doing the church thing and you're all gonna come on my compound even though I was just in prison for sexual abuse.

[Theo Pratt]

Yep.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's beyond comprehension. There's a few things about your story that really inspire me. You spoke out about your own story with sexual abuse very, like, unapologetically. And we're just like, if I don't want this to happen to anybody else. Because they encouraged you not to speak about it. And you were like, sorry, I am.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah. I think when I came out, I mean, I knew in Gloriville that what I experienced wasn't right. But I also downplayed it a lot. And then when I started telling people that I was with, like, Keitha, she was like, that's not normal. And it. And you can normalize it so much when you're in that environment. And so then going to the police was really important, not only just for me to be heard, but to prevent. I mean, I had like nearly 30 nieces and nephews then, and I was like, I don't want them to experience what I did and any other woman and girls in Guerravel. So putting that in a police statement was really important to me. And then from there, it sort of unraveled other things that I experienced that I. I guess I didn't realize how much it impacted me. Like, just, yeah. The leader's abuse and how they treated you as. As a woman in Glorivale and as a girl. That belief system that your body is not your own and you belong to a man or you belong to your father. It took a while to realize actually this is my body and I'm in control of it and it's not anyone else's. And getting my head around that was actually really weird because, yeah, it sort of was like, yeah, of course it is. But for so long you just thought it's not.

[Lola Blanc]

I mean, that's drilled into you from the day you're born. Literally. Like, the fact that you were able to unlearn it at all is a miracle.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's unbelievable. And you were going to therapy, which is so impressive, you know, like, you were really putting in a lot of work to get these realizations. How did you even know to go to therapy or any of these steps that you were taking?

[Theo Pratt]

I mean, it was when I originally went to the police, they offered me therapy. And then I realized that in New Zealand, I have access to free therapy. And I knew the only way to break that cycle of, like, the abuse that my mother experienced, my father, the abuse that all my sisters had experienced within Glorivale. The only way to break that cycle was to do something about it. And going to therapy was that first sort of point of view. And being listened to and heard and validated was sort of that first point of knowing. Yeah, that I can access help.

[Lola Blanc]

Since leaving, have you been able to form community with other former members?

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, so most of them live quite far from me, but I've stayed in contact with, like, quite a few. Like, a few of my friends after I left. Of course, a lot of my friends left eventually, too. And some you stay in contact with, like, yeah, I have a friend Rosanna and a few other friends that we stay in contact. I mean, some of them. Some of these stories are in the back of my book as well. So, yeah, we've stayed together. I think you realize the power of women speaking together and How, I guess how powerful our voices are and that ability to know and stand together and know that our truth deserves to be heard is really powerful. Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Can you tell us a bit about when Neville passed away? When Neville died. I'm not gonna say passed away when he died.

[Lola Blanc]

Not fucker died.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, died. You guys seemed to be like on a group chat or something and it was almost like inconceivable that he would die to you. It seemed like.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah, like we were joking. Like what if he died tonight? And then we realized that he did die that day. He died that very day.

[Lola Blanc]

The power of the woman.

[Theo Pratt]

Sort of had no idea that he was like sick or even dying. But it just was such a weird feeling. I definitely wasn't like sad. I was like, thank God. But then it was like, what's going to happen next? Yeah, so that was sort of that feeling. But yeah, of course he was like the martyr and everyone loved him and like, like worshiped him. He even made a video before he died of like what he wanted to happen. And they had one of the concerts that year and he died before the concert. So he made a video to be played for the concert.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh, wow.

[Theo Pratt]

Like that's how self absorbed and like, hey, he was in terms of that. He was like the beginning and end. Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Well, in the animal talking version of the story, the fairy tale, the cult would have ended then and it would be gone. But instead somebody replaced him. Is that.

[Theo Pratt]

Yes. Yeah. An American. An American.

[Lola Blanc]

God, fucking American.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Even worse. So now another man has stepped up and the beat goes on. Is that correct?

[Theo Pratt]

Yep. Just has continued. And currently that man is in the court system and hopefully to be sentenced. But sadly our justice system doesn't take these things seriously. So we won't get much for, for, for the case.

[Megan Elizabeth]

What's the case?

[Theo Pratt]

Sexual abuse.

[Lola Blanc]

Oh.

[Megan Elizabeth]

So again, no big deal.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Okay. To New Zealand then. American.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Wow.

[Theo Pratt]

So they've appointed another man, like to take over, but that older man's still going to be there. I mean the American guy is older and he was born in America and all of that. Now the next leader was born into it, so that's all he knows now. So it's a whole different, I guess, layer of how it's going to be.

[Lola Blanc]

Right. We have to wrap up, but. Oh, I know, I know. But is there, you know. Oh God. Do you. There's so many different possibilities. Do you have any final thoughts that you'd like to share or conclusions that you want people to know about this experience or this group I think not.

[Theo Pratt]

Necessarily about Glorivale, but I think something that I've realized since leaving is that cults can be linked, like controlled environments, cults and relationships or whatever you're in. I think knowing that anyone around the world that's in an environment or relationship, knowing that you can get out and knowing that your voice matters and that your experience is valid and that, like, trust your gut, that sort of thing. I think it's not just Glory Vale or whatever. I think I've realized that so many people have so many different stories, and once they're out, they realize. But when you're in it, you can't see it the same. But, yeah, I think just knowing that you're not alone in those situations.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Really not. I mean, there are so many. So many groups like this. It's wild.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

When we started this podcast, we thought we would run out of people to talk to, and that is not the case, unfortunately. Unfortunately, but also wonderful that there are people like you sharing their stories and helping other people in other groups. So can you remind us the name of your book and where people can find it?

[Theo Pratt]

Sure. The name of my book is called A Story of Surviving Glory Vale, and it is on Kindle, Amazon in New Zealand. It's in bookstores, but, yeah, it's online. You can find it online, I think, in the Amazon link.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah. Amazing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

It's incredible. And do you have a place that you want people to follow you? Are you on. On any.

[Theo Pratt]

Yes, you can follow me on Instagram on my page called Life is Choice, New Zealand.

[Lola Blanc]

Amazing.

[Megan Elizabeth]

If you wake up with 400 new messages, they're probably from us.

[Theo Pratt]

Feel free to message me.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Thank you so much for joining us today.

[Lola Blanc]

Seriously. Thank you.

[Megan Elizabeth]

We really appreciate it.

[Theo Pratt]

Thank you for having me.

[Lola Blanc]

And that's where we'll leave it with Theo. What an incredible story. I wish we could have talked to her for longer.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I cannot wait to see this as a movie because it's one of the most exciting stories I've ever heard in my life. I can't stop telling people about it.

[Lola Blanc]

Well, which brings me to my question.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

Which is, do you think you would join Gloria Vale?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Absolutely.

[Lola Blanc]

No, go on.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Just none of the stuff that usually intrigues me, such as aliens, wigs. Wigs, yeah. Is that.

[Lola Blanc]

Is that a good thing?

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah, the wig cults, you know, like, dare I say glamour or some sort.

[Lola Blanc]

Of, like, spiritual hippie stuff, kind of.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. So I think that I would not love it, but I totally see how people get sucked into it, you know? It's offering, like, a different, simpler life. And. Yeah, yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

When I was a kid, and I'm sure we've talked about this, but I like. Well, I was really obsessed with the Boxcar Children.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Duh. Henry, Violet, of course you remember every.

[Lola Blanc]

Detail from the book. You're insane. I don't remember. I literally. I think I read, like, all of them.

[Megan Elizabeth]

You don't remember?

[Lola Blanc]

I don't remember any of the characters, no. But I loved the books. I loved them, I swear. I just have a bad memory. And the idea of living simpler and doing things from scratch and no electricity and going, you know, was so appealing to me. And we had a lot of Amish people in our. I guess I don't actually remember if they were our neighborhood, but in rural Michigan, we would see them. And I was so intrigued by it and, like, really wanted to hang out with them. So I see the appeal on that level.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Totally. Totally. Same. I loved. And just for people who didn't read the Boxcar Children, number one, what are you doing with your life? Get in there. Number two, it's these kids who escape from kind of an abusive foster situation and move into a boxcar in the woods, and there's a dump nearby that they go and collect all of these, like, treasures that people have thrown away. And I was addicted to reading how they built. Like, they found the stream where they could get the water and clean off all their things. And yes, there was also that movie, Swiss Family Robinson. It was like a Disney movie. And there was a part in it. I remember my friend had the movie because I didn't have any movies, and I would just watch it over and over and over. Where they moved to a weird island and like, and built a self containing, like, family city. And I just loved that for some reason. I don't.

[Lola Blanc]

I never saw this.

[Megan Elizabeth]

I really like. I really like that kind of trope. But I, you know, as myself now, I just can't. I can't live more simply than you.

[Lola Blanc]

Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Elizabeth]

At all, basically.

[Theo Pratt]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lola Blanc]

No, growing up, I was on a farm and so that stuff seemed fun. Right now I'm like, I really like my air conditioning unit.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Yeah. All that to say, please read Theo's book because I couldn't put it down.

[Lola Blanc]

Absolutely.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Oh, and if you want to get some Trust Me merch, go to the exactly right [e-mail] and grab a T shirt or a hat. And as always, remember to follow your gut. Watch out for red flags and never ever trust me. Bye.

[Lola Blanc]

Bye. This has been an exactly right production.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Hosted by me, Lola Blanc and me, Megan Elizabeth. Our senior producer is Ji Ha Lee.

[Lola Blanc]

This episode was mixed by John Bradley.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain and our guest booker is Patrick Cotner.

[Lola Blanc]

Our theme song was composed by Holly Amber Church.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Trust Me is executive produced by Karen Kilgarith, Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.

[Lola Blanc]

You can find us on Instagram ustmepodcast or on TikTok usmecoltpod podcast got your.

[Megan Elizabeth]

Own story about cults, extreme belief or manipulation? Shoot us an [e-mail] Listen to Trust.

[Lola Blanc]

Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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What is it?

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