Amy (2:52)

Yeah. So you're somebody that is sort of been there, done that on the ground in an industry, in the agriculture business business. But you've also been in the policy world, you know, Washington, you know what it takes from. From the federal government to help those people on the ground, namely our farmers. Right. And that's what makes your expertise, in my mind, so important and unique. And, you know, you and I actually have a little bit in common. Not I. I don't. Did not grow up on a farm, but I married into a family. My husband's family own a agriculture equipment business. So they're not farmers themselves, but they are in that area. So I have listened to them and learned from them over the years that I've been married to Eric about all of these things. But you are. You have unique experience in both the policy and the agriculture world on the ground. And you sent a bipartisan letter along with other experts to Congress talking about what was happening right now and really warning of widespread collapse in the industry. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Don Riley (4:09)

Sure. Over the last year now, several of us in the ag industry that known each other for years and years and years, either through our roles at USDA or working with commodity groups, all the different connections that you make in this lovely world of ours, and we just kept scratching our heads. We were just like, there's got to be something that we can do to slow down the damage that's being done here with these just random, chaotic tariff policies in particular, because these are markets that had been built up over 30 to 40 years that were just gone in a matter of a pinstroke. And that has left particularly everyone seen the damage to soybean farmers. But that trickles on down into our rural communities with those extra dollars being gone. They're not spent at the store. New trucks aren't bought. Your equipment dealers, I'm sure we're seeing that on their equipment that was coming in. And obviously our bourbon industry saw it very dramatically, which, again, it is a farm product, which a lot of folks forget about. So I think. I think the distance that we found our. From that on farm knowledge to what comes across our consumer shelves is part of the missing piece of this conversation, that people just don't realize how affected they are by the things that are being done at the department.

Amy (5:48)

How did you get this group together? I mean, how did it come together? These are people, you know, around the industry, as you said. But what was it that. Was there a leader that said, this is crazy, we got to do something?

Don Riley (6:02)

Well, we were all kind of born leaders, so there were lots of chiefs and not so many Indians. But, you know, it was word of mouth. You'd have one conversation one day, and they say, oh, wow, you know, you should talk to so and so. And then it just snowballed to the point where it was like, let's all get together and talk about what it is that we can do. We thought that our voices together, we're much stronger than individuals.

Amy (6:32)

Do farmers have a voice in the sense that. Do they have a group that could actually stand up and say, enough is enough here? I mean, I feel like many of the farmers that I talked to, some are still really giving the benefit of the doubt to this president. Many of them voted for this president. I'm not sure that they voted for these policies that we're seeing, but I don't know enough about. And probably the listeners out there don't know enough about the groups that make up, you know, who speaks for the farmers.

Don Riley (7:13)

Obviously, there's a commodity association for everything out there. Corn, soybean, pigs, cattle, all across the board. And those are the groups you naturally go to to try to push change and encourage conversations. All of these organizations bring their farmers in to talk to legislators, to talk to the department, to talk to the other administration officials on a regular basis. I think now it's to the point where it's just who will actually hear them and who will actually take action on their behalf. And our group decided that we were going to start with Congress because we felt that's where the rubber really meets the road. And Congress has walked away from its responsibility, utilizing its authority, and it needs to come back to the Congress for those programs, appropriations, authorizations, everything.

Amy (8:20)

Yeah, Congress has really seeded its power in so many areas right now, not just tariffs. We're living through another time, sadly, right now, where the. The use of military force and war powers is completely given over to, in my mind, a sort of unhinged executive without any checks. But that, you know, obviously a lot of people may. May disagree with that, but there's no doubt that Congress has ceded its responsibilities in so many areas in the time since your letter was sent. The Supreme Court determined that the way that President Trump was going about enacting these tariffs was unconstitutional. Do you think this alleviates your concerns right now?

Don Riley (9:14)

Absolutely not. Because the. I mean, right out of the gate, within hours, the administration decided that it was going to use all the other tools at hand, whether it be the section 301 and I can't even name all of the statutes, but they were bound and determined to go back and utilize all these other measures against foreign countries, which will have a direct impact on ag, because ag is Honestly, the low hanging fruit when it comes to trade negotiations and it is the place where they can hurt us the most traditionally. So we do not, we do not feel like the, the damage has been alleviated. We feel like everyone still needs to be looking for other opportunities. And the bottom line is even with the tariffs alleviated, we've broken that trust with those countries. The markets that it took 30 or 40 years to build are not just going to come back at the snap of a finger. We've already seen that with what supposedly the new deal was with China. Have they actually lived up to those buys? No, they haven't. Do we expect that after everything else that has unfolded in the world on the national security front is going to make that any easier? It's not. So yeah, the damage in relationships is huge. Huge. Yeah.

Amy (10:37)

And just like you said, and I've heard this from farmers as well, they might get something back this year, but the market's gone and you know, with, with no real hope for, for return or little hope for return for many of these farmers. And when I talk to farmers, I hear, you know, we don't want bailouts from the government, we don't want a check. We don't, we don't want, you know, oh, the tariffs hurt you. So we're going to come around and we're going to hand you, you know, some check to alleviate your concerns for this year because that might help a little bit for this year, but it doesn't help over the long term. And they don't want government checks. They want their markets back. They want government to not tinker with their markets, with their business. And I feel like that is something we're sort of living in. This world of Republicans used to be the party that, that was, you know, conservative in the sense that you didn't have big government come in and tinker with your business this way and now all of a sudden, you know, it's changed. But I wanted to ask you what is the biggest concern or area of concern for you that maybe doesn't get a lot of attention or publicity?

Don Riley (12:04)

I think one of the biggest things, and it starts to get a little wonky, but it's that middle supply chain, the infrastructure that's actually needed to get farm products into a place for consumers to use? You know, we're all familiar with farmers markets and those things, but the day and age has come where consumers want convenience, they want pre prepped meals, you know, but would there needs to be a consistent, affordable middle supply chain infrastructure for folks to use Just to, you know, make that tomato sauce on a scale that really gets out to the folks who want to buy product and also to those folks who need it most. We could go down a long list and show how everything's tied together on the food security side, on the food waste and loss side, and then how that just rolls economically into our rural communities or not.

Amy (13:07)

And this stuff doesn't just hit the farmers. And this is what I've lear, just as I said, being married into a family that deals with the agriculture equipment business because when, you know, when, when it hits farms and farmers, they don't buy the, the equipment that they might, they might not want to invest because they don't know what's going to happen next year or the, or the year after that. And farmers already deal with a lot of uncertainty. Right. There's the weather, you know, there's, there's lots of things they have to deal with and this is just an added major chaotic event for them. And so. And it has ripple down effects on other businesses like, you know, like the agriculture equipment business as well.

Don Riley (13:50)

Absolutely, absolutely. The banking business, you know, the pressure that it puts on absolutely everything for no apparent good reason in these circumstances is what's so frustrating.

Amy (14:06)

What have you seen in your time? I know there's a real concern with the loss of the family farm in Kentucky. We've seen some suicide rates among farmers rise. Can you talk a little bit about that and what's happening?

Don Riley (14:22)

Wow. It's just the daily pressure, the not knowing. I know there are several organizations that are trying to put together mental health groups and have hotlines available, you know, all of those things. But the bottom line again gets back to farmers want to farm and they want to have a market for their product. So don't mess with it. Let them do what it is that they want to do.

Amy (14:51)

I'm very much worried, Don, that Congress isn't going to do much. Now I know there's a farm bill that is still out there. Do you are and I know you sent your letter and certainly we certainly hope that, that, you know, makes the difference. But what do you want to see happen right now from Congress?

Don Riley (15:19)

Our group just had a conversation about this and we're desperately, you know, racking our brains as to what type of legislative vehicle may be available. The farm bill OR Farm Bill 2.0 that was basically the original farm bill was usurped obviously by the big beautiful bill. And we hope. But we honestly, in the climate that we have in Congress, don't expect things to really move any further than these markups and these press releases. It's very performative at this point in time. And also, you just look at the coalition that was built to even have farm bills. In this day and age with the nutrition sector and the large urban areas, that trust has completely been broken. So I am not optimistic about a farm bill happening. And in light of last night's election results, I'm even less optimistic that we see much of anything happen in Congress based on the fact that a couple of folks in Texas won't be returning, and that makes the margin slim. You've got another congressman who's going to be in a runoff and a senator as well. But it makes it very highly unlikely that we're going to see legislation of any real sort come out of the House of Representatives between now and November.

Amy (16:48)

Yeah, it's very worrisome. I wanted to ask you a little bit about this food insecurity report. I don't know if you know anything about this. The USDA terminated their sort of annual food insecurity report. And, you know, I, I know that for a lot of people, some reports seem like the, they're, they're meaningless or it's just another part of our bureaucracy. But I actually think some of this stuff is really important. And I want to get your take on this report in general, what you think about these. These types of things. What do they. Why do they matter or do they not matter?

Don Riley (17:38)

Great point. And it works very well with my background. I came into USDA as the acting undersecretary for Food and Nutrition, as well as research, education and economics, which, or is the economic research service that puts out this report and the food insecurity report that you mentioned specifically helps highlight and pinpoint exactly where that need is so that programs can be developed around that, not only at the federal level, but the state level, the local level, those influence philanthropy, impact investments. It's absolutely critical. You know, in this time, we don't have the opportunity to waste money reinventing, reinventing the wheel or placing investments where their investment's not needed. So this type of report is absolutely critical to get the dollars where they're most needed.

Amy (18:39)

Don, if this report is critical, why did we get rid of it?

Don Riley (18:48)

We got rid of it because, honestly, in my opinion, it was a service to those who need it most and not a service to those who were probably donors to this administration or people that could be influenced in any other way, shape or form.

Amy (19:13)

Yeah, I have had some really good conversations with some farmers just in the Last four or five months here. One of our friend of this podcast and a friend of mine is a farmer by the name of Jim, and he is in Fayette county. And he talked so eloquently about the fact that so much of the product of what he does, and he's very proud of what he does and the workers that work for him and farm on his farm. A lot of that product goes to for SNAP benefits for our kids in school lunches around the country. I just came from Boyd County, Kentucky, just yesterday, touring some Head Start programs there. And I got to see the kids getting eating lunch. And what struck me is how much Jim, you know, my friend who's a farmer, really had that pride in, hey, we're farming to help America to sell our products on the farmer's market. But also a lot of our product goes to kids in need around our country through SNAP benefits. And also he was very proud of the fact that a lot of his product went overseas through grants to usaid, which have now been, of course, eliminated thanks to Elon Musk. And that was really hurtful for him. He felt like, man, we were doing a service to our country and to the world and now we're losing our own income. And, you know, people, kids here in America and around the world aren't getting food. I mean, it's just. It's crazy. I just want to know some of your thoughts on that.

Don Riley (21:12)

Oh, I. I preach this sermon on a regular basis that food is so essentially at our core and at the core of what we can be because it provides that benefit to those school children to be able to learn. It provides that nutrition and dignity to that guy who wants to go get a job so that he has the ability to actually work. It just becomes so glossed over because everybody thinks everybody can have a meal or that's not that important. But thinking rest, nourishing your body and not having to worry about that piece of the puzzle is critical for our entire civilization to move forward.

Amy (22:04)

Yeah, and some of these policies that are coming down from this administration have just really hurt so many people, not only here in Kentucky, here in our country, but in the world. In my mind. Obviously, I'm in the political world, and I'm in the political world because politics is about people.

Don Riley (22:25)

Absolutely.

Amy (22:26)

It's not a dirty thing. It is about people. And I think we need to have adults who have discussions about politics in a way that is mature and kind of cuts through some of the bs. And so that's what I try to do on this Podcast. But I also realize that a lot of people don't want to wade into politics. So, Don, you have worked in Mitch McConnell's Senate office a long time ago, but you were appointed under the George W. Bush administration, but you're an independent now. And, you know, I was in the military. I worked for members of Democratic Party and members of the, you know, leaders who were. Who were members of the Republican Party. To me, that never mattered. But you're an independent now, and in 2024, you endorsed Vice President Harris for president. Why the change? I mean, you worked. You worked in a Republican administration. You work for Mitch McConnell. What has evolved for you?

Don Riley (23:47)

So many things, I guess I'll say. First that going into the George W. Bush administration, we really built ourselves around this compassionate conservative notion, and that was the path that we were on pre 9 11. And of course, 911 threw all the cards in the air, and it was shuffle, and national security was obviously a big piece of it, and that trickled down to the Department of Agriculture. But this is 100% a people business, and I think the people business has gotten lost here, other than for those who are actually sitting in those offices now where it appears to be only about themselves. So I became an independent the day after Charlottesville. Enough was enough from the campaign. And quite frankly, it's mostly about the person sitting in the Oval Office just being a horrible human. That's what it gets down to with that. I actually also endorsed President Biden in 2020. I was the only person from USDA as a political appointee from the previous administration that was willing to speak out and did other bipartisan letters and interviews with my friend Larry Ellworth, who had been at EPA under President Obama and others felt very strongly about just the lack of empathy, not to mention the lack of experience or knowledge of what the federal government is there to do.

Amy (25:53)

Yeah.

Don Riley (25:56)

In 2016, I was clearly a swamp monster, you know, and one of those people that had to be evicted and removed and all that knowledge and experience taken away. So it was a direct attack in so many ways.

Amy (26:12)

Yeah. We have really undermined the experts, and we're reinventing the wheel in so many things that just. We don't need to be doing. And we're. We're harming ourselves. I mean, decades of experience, we. We've thrown away.

Don Riley (26:27)

Absolutely.

Amy (26:28)

And. And it's. It's just a really sad thing to say. And the. And the trust, and you talked a little bit about it earlier. I think the trust which we've built up over decades is Just thrown under the bus right now. I very much worry about this.

Don Riley (26:48)

And the other thing, talking about the experience and the expertise. If you just go to USDA's website alone, all they have done is stripped out, taken away all these programs for a matter of time to bring them back and put another label on them or another set of requirements on them, but at the same time decrease the amount of money. Yet I get text messages and emails, oh great, we've got a new program back. Or oh great. And I'm just like, it's not a new program and they cut a billion dollars out of it. You know, this was going speak directly to infrastructure grants that were put in place to do exactly what I was talking about, that mid supply chain processing to get more products to make it more available for a local economy. I talk a lot about a local circular economy where things can stay in that community and be completely used up and dollars stay in that community, jobs stay in that community. It's the things that we need to be looking at that we were really on a great trajectory to achieve that were just thrown out the window with Elon Musk and the secretaries who wanted to follow that path.

Amy (28:10)

Don, you have been so courageous about stepping up and speaking out. Do you think that more like you, more farmers will speak up here right now?

Don Riley (28:26)

That is one of the goals of our letter as well. Not only to get Congress to move, but to show others that they can speak up, to start these conversations in communities all across the country, across all these different commodities, to just let people know they're not alone. Because that's again, how this letter came about, how this movement came about of sorts is because you talk to one friend who says, oh, I've been talking to another friend. And then, you know, it just kind of builds. And I think that's exactly what it's going to take for people to get comfortable. Even if it's two or three people around a kitchen table. Those are the conversations that have to be happening to know that they can take their power back. But they have to understand that that power ultimately lies in the voting booth,

Amy (29:21)

lies in the voting booth. And with the midterms that lies with your members of Congress and the Senate. That's the only way, I think, to push back at this point.

Don Riley (29:34)

That is the last lever we have to pull.

Amy (29:37)

Dawn, where. Where can people find your letter? I know it was published. I think it was published by New York Times, is that right?

Don Riley (29:45)

Yes, the New York Times published it. I believe DTN that a lot of the farmer Networks published it, and actually Representative Chantel Brown entered it into the farm bill discussion record last evening. I was notified earlier this morning. So it will be in the Congressional Record. Good. If all else fails. But I can also find some other places as well.

Amy (30:14)

Okay, Don, so this is the Devil's Cut edition of Truth in the Barrel. And Devil's Cut, we talk about lots of things, but we also talk a little bit about bourbon. And I have some favorites, but you are a Kentuckian, and I want to ask you what is your favorite bourbon?

Don Riley (30:35)

So I can't narrow it down to just one. I'll show you a couple or three that are really on my list right now.

Amy (30:45)

Okay.

Don Riley (30:46)

I'll try to put them up and recognize Russell's Reserve.

Amy (30:52)

Okay. What's the other one?

Don Riley (30:55)

This one is Neely's. Neely Family Distillery up 71. Yeah. In Sparta.

Amy (31:02)

Okay. In Sparta.

Don Riley (31:03)

Yes. Had the good fortune to have a dear friend bring some of that over, and it made for a very nice New Year's Eve.

Amy (31:13)

Very good. I will have to try that one. I love Russell's Reserve. That's one of my faves as well. And today with you, I've been drinking the Barrel House select brandy finish. This is from Lexington. This is a Lexington distillery here. And the brandy finish is a little bit stronger, I think, than their normal, you know, their normal bourbon. But it's really good.

Don Riley (31:43)

Good to know. Good to know. I will keep that in mind.

Amy (31:47)

Awesome.

Don Riley (31:48)

Do you want another one? Yeah. And I do have. Even though this one is not open, there have been others that have been open, and it's the. Will it rye?

Amy (32:00)

Ooh, will it rye. Nice.

Don Riley (32:02)

Yeah, I'm. I'm a sucker for the rye.

Amy (32:07)

Well, that's great. We love bourbon here, and we love to highlight what people like, so this is really great. Thanks, Dawn.

Don Riley (32:17)

Awesome. Thank you.

Amy (32:24)

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