Podcast Summary: "Devil's Cut | Former Green Beret Weighs In"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Truth in the Barrel
• Hosts: Amy McGrath | Denver Riggleman
• Episode: Devil's Cut | Former Green Beret Weighs In
• Release Date: June 17, 2025
• Website: www.TruthintheBarrel.com

1. Introduction and Guest Background

The episode kicks off with Amy McGrath welcoming her guest, Dan Pace, a seasoned author and former U.S. Army Special Forces veteran. Dan, who also co-hosts the "Surf and Turf Show" on the Valor Media Network, shares his journey from joining the military to becoming a Green Beret.

Key Points:

• Joining the Army: Dan Pace joined the Army at 21 in January 2001, initially signing up for the infantry due to a lack of clarity about military roles and a desire for excitement. (00:20 - 01:45)
• Becoming a Green Beret: After experiencing infantry life and observing the specialized work of Special Forces, Dan transitioned to the Green Berets, a process that took about two years but proved highly rewarding. (03:06 - 03:39)

Notable Quotes:

• "I just walked over to the army recruiter... And it kind of just worked out, I guess." – Dan Pace (01:49)
• "It was very much worth it." – Dan Pace (03:39)

2. Understanding the Green Berets

Amy delves into the specifics of what it means to be a Green Beret, highlighting the elite nature and challenging selection process of the unit.

Key Points:

• Role of Green Berets: They are described as the nation's unconventional warriors, specializing in unconventional warfare, partnering with foreign forces, and operating in diverse global environments such as Afghanistan, Iraq, Uzbekistan, Latin America, Europe, and Africa. (02:11 - 04:50)
• Training Differences: Unlike Rangers, Green Berets do not automatically go through Ranger School. Ranger School is a separate, highly challenging 62-day program accessible to all Army members, not just Special Forces. (03:39 - 04:13)

Notable Quotes:

• "The Green Berets are the nation's unconventional warriors." – Dan Pace (02:18)
• "It's a long pipe. It takes about a year and a half to two years to finish. But by the time you get done with it, it was very much worth it." – Dan Pace (03:39)

3. Military Ethics and Moral Drift

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the ethical challenges faced by Special Forces operatives, particularly the phenomenon of "moral drift."

Key Points:

• Moral Drift: Extended deployments in remote areas can lead soldiers to become too close to local populations, potentially compromising their core American values and contributing to issues like PTSD and difficulty reintegrating. (05:12 - 08:08)
• Training Solutions: Dan emphasizes the need for unit-based collective training to address these ethical challenges, ensuring open communication about questionable activities without jeopardizing missions. (07:39 - 08:08)

Notable Quotes:

• "We end up guys having kind of trouble with... moral drift, where you just start to lose kind of focus on... the core value of, you know, growing up in America." – Dan Pace (05:12)
• "You have to be able to honestly communicate that to the decision maker in the rear..." – Dan Pace (07:39)

4. Military Deployment in Domestic Affairs: The LA Case

The conversation shifts to the controversial deployment of the National Guard in Los Angeles by President Donald Trump, marking the first such instance in 60 years against a state's governor's wishes.

Key Points:

• Deployment Concerns: Dan expresses deep concerns about using elite military units in domestic policing roles, highlighting the mismatch in training and the potential for severe consequences. (13:24 - 16:38)
• Historical Context: References to past incidents like Kent State and Vietnam illustrate the long-term damage such actions can inflict on the military's relationship with civilians. (18:54 - 19:33)
• Rules of Engagement: The difficulty in shifting soldiers' mindsets from combat operations to policing behaviors poses significant risks. (15:03 - 16:38)

Notable Quotes:

• "I hate the idea of the active duty military conducting operations inside the continental United States. I hate it." – Dan Pace (17:37)
• "It's going to be a massive risk and difficult to stomach." – Dan Pace (16:14)

5. Special Operations and Drug Cartel Engagements

Amy and Dan discuss the use of Special Operations Forces against Mexican drug cartels, exploring the complexities and potential fallout of such initiatives.

Key Points:

• Direct Action Defined: Dan explains direct action as surgical strikes aimed at eliminating key cartel figures, but warns of collateral damage and the deep embedding of cartels within local communities. (21:32 - 24:29)
• Historical Lessons: Drawing parallels with counter-drug efforts in Afghanistan, Dan notes that while certain operations can yield temporary successes, dismantling cartels is challenging due to their decentralized nature and the persistent demand for drugs. (24:29 - 32:25)
• Economic and Social Implications: Efforts like crop replacement in Colombia highlighted the economic dependencies that reinforce cartel power, making eradication efforts fraught with risks of increased violence and instability. (27:18 - 29:54)

Notable Quotes:

• "There's going to be tremendous amount of resentment built up really quickly if American missiles start killing Mexicans." – Dan Pace (24:29)
• "As long as people want to buy drugs, I think they're going to continue to produce and sell drugs." – Dan Pace (31:16)

6. US Military Strategy Since WWII

The discussion broadens to evaluate the overall success and strategic approach of the U.S. military since World War II, particularly in the context of limited wars.

Key Points:

• Strategic Deterrence: Amy argues that despite setbacks in limited wars, the U.S. military has been instrumental in maintaining global stability and fostering economic growth through a strong, forward-deployed military presence. (34:00 - 42:52)
• Challenges in Leadership: Dan critiques senior military leadership for adopting a "manage wars" mentality, focusing on short-term objectives without achieving long-term strategic goals, leading to inefficiencies and morale issues. (34:00 - 41:09)
• Institutional Constraints: Both hosts highlight the overreliance on the Department of Defense to handle multifaceted tasks traditionally managed by other government branches, resulting in fragmented and ineffective efforts in conflict zones. (34:00 - 41:09)

Notable Quotes:

• "We have kept great power peace since 1945... a United States military that was forward deployed, that created stability around the world." – Amy McGrath (36:00 - 42:52)
• "The military can do what you handed the task to do... there's no way I was going to achieve that." – Dan Pace (37:18 - 41:09)

7. Importance of Multidisciplinary Efforts in Military Operations

Amy and Dan emphasize the necessity of integrating diplomatic and developmental efforts with military operations to achieve sustainable success in conflict zones.

Key Points:

• Integration with USAID: The lack of effective collaboration between military units and organizations like USAID hampers the ability to implement comprehensive strategies in foreign nations. (39:29 - 41:09)
• Long-Term Relationships: Frequent rotations of military personnel disrupt the continuity needed for meaningful partnerships and effective implementation of multifaceted missions. (39:29 - 41:09)

Notable Quotes:

• "We have this learning curve... they rotated once and then by the end of your rotation, you rotate." – Dan Pace (40:00)

8. Guest's Other Projects

Towards the end of the episode, Dan shares insights into his personal projects, including his podcast and a children's book co-authored with his daughter.

Key Points:

• Surf and Turf Show: Co-hosted with retired Navy SEAL Adam, the podcast aims to provide a balanced perspective for young men navigating turbulent times, focusing on self-improvement and responsible citizenship. (46:10 - 47:38)
• Children's Book: Dan collaborated with his daughter to write and publish a children's book during the COVID-19 pandemic, fostering creativity and bonding despite restrictions. (47:48 - 48:36)

Notable Quotes:

• "We have this sense that our kids are growing up in a pretty turbulent time... a more moderate voice that says, hey, no, you're part of the team." – Dan Pace (46:17)
• "We turned it into a book, and it was... I think it turned out pretty well." – Dan Pace (48:23)

Conclusion

The episode provides a comprehensive exploration of the complexities faced by former Special Forces operatives like Dan Pace, delving into military ethics, the challenges of deploying military forces in non-traditional roles, and the broader strategic implications of U.S. military actions since World War II. Dan's insights underscore the importance of integrated approaches that encompass diplomatic, economic, and developmental strategies alongside military efforts to achieve lasting peace and stability.

Website: For more information and to explore guest Dan Pace’s projects, visit www.TruthintheBarrel.com and danielvpace.com.