Truth in the Barrel: “Devil’s Cut” | In Conversation with Heather Cox Richardson

Hosts: Amy McGrath, Denver Riggleman
Guest: Heather Cox Richardson
Release Date: August 26, 2025

Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, Amy McGrath and Denver Riggleman sit down with acclaimed historian Heather Cox Richardson to explore the legitimacy and historical roots of Donald Trump’s presidency and what his era reveals about the fragility and resilience of American democracy. The conversation delves into the evolution of party politics, the implications of recent Supreme Court decisions, historical parallels to present threats, and what it means for citizens to reclaim agency in turbulent times.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Rise: Anomaly or Outcome of Deep-Rooted Trends?

[00:29–01:35]

• Opening Theme: The episode frames Trump’s presidency not as an outlier, but as “the inevitable outcome of decades of grievance politics” (B: 00:29).
• Richardson highlights how groundwork for today’s partisanship was laid over decades—a recurring theme she unpacks throughout.
• Quote:

  “They thought … that, all right, thinking men at the time would be on the same side … [not] divide into political parties … But our system of checks and balances… missed the crucial influence of partisanship.”
  —Heather Cox Richardson (C: 02:26)

2. Erosion of Checks and Balances & Party Loyalty

[01:38–05:00]

• Founders’ vision lacked preparation for intense partisan loyalty that eclipses constitutional duty.
• Richardson asserts that the “degree to which today’s Republicans have thrown over everything in favor of their continuing hold on power is unprecedented.”
• She links this to Republicans' refusal to hold Trump accountable during his impeachments.
• Memorable Moment:

  “The shift from ‘we will do what is right for the country’ to ‘we will do what is right for the party’ is not unprecedented in emphasis, but the degree… is unprecedented.”
  —Heather Cox Richardson (C: 03:50)

3. Historical Parallels: Nixon, Watergate, and the Party’s Moral Center

[05:00–06:25]

• Comparison to Watergate: Even fervent Republicans confronted Nixon, but today’s party enables Trump’s breaches.
• Quote:

  “Now Nixon looks like a piker compared to what the Republican Party is swallowing.”
  —Heather Cox Richardson (C: 06:13)

4. Supreme Court’s Presidential Immunity Decision

[06:25–10:04]

• The Supreme Court’s 2024 decision granting broad presidential immunity is framed as a seismic event.
• Richardson calls it “the most important event in American history,” lamenting the public’s muted reaction.
• She emphasizes that this isn’t just a shift toward executive power, but a deeper transfer of authority to the now ideologically stacked Supreme Court.
• Quote:

  “They said … a president is above the law so long as he ... is operating within his Article 2 powers … And that, I think, is a really important shift.”
  —Heather Cox Richardson (C: 07:20)
  “It’s a shift of power to the judicial branch, to the Supreme Court that has been packed with right-wing extremists by Donald Trump.”
  —C (C: 08:24)

5. Politicization of the Military & Historical Context

[10:04–17:01]

• Amy expresses alarm over the unprecedented deployment of National Guard to U.S. cities.
• Richardson explains “sideways” parallels, summarizing how the Posse Comitatus Act was created to prevent domestic military misuse for political aims, rooted in the 1876 contested election and subsequent railroad strikes.
• Quote:

  “…The army may never work for a political end domestically. So when you asked if this had ever happened before, we get the Posse Comitatus Act because of that…”
  —Heather Cox Richardson (C: 15:26)

• The episode draws a direct line from 19th-century abuses to present loopholes exploited by the Trump administration.

6. Calls for Modern Reform and Closing Loopholes

[17:01–18:26]

• The hosts agree that loopholes—exploited due to Trump’s disregard for political norms—must be closed for future administrations.
• Richardson adds that law enforcement under Homeland Security should also be bound by the same military restrictions, and highlights how recruitment and institutional mission drift are under threat due to politicization.

7. Attacks on Institutions—Universities, Media, Law

[19:22–23:57]

• Richardson identifies assaults on educational, business, journalistic, and legal institutions as part of a coordinated extortion effort to dominate society’s pillars.
• She connects this to both the 1971 Powell Memo and the current Project 2025 agenda.
• Quote:

  “It’s an extortion program to give MAGA Republicans control over all the pillars of American society.”
  —Heather Cox Richardson (C: 20:47)

• Notes the overwhelming unpopularity of Project 2025:

  “Only about 4% of Americans wanted to see it instituted in the United States.”
  —C (C: 22:34)

8. De-Citizenship: A New and Dangerous Precedent

[23:57–24:58]

• Discussion of policies that could strip Americans of citizenship—the hosts and Richardson agree this is unprecedented in U.S. history, though not uncommon worldwide.
• Richardson expresses worry over “detention camps” and warns of the slippery slope toward targeting and erasing groups of people.

9. Campaigning, Service, and the Power of Storytelling

[25:52–32:07]

• Richardson shifts to ask Amy about the messaging in her campaign ads, noting their focus on community and collective service—a contrast to hyper-individualist and exclusionary MAGA rhetoric.
• McGrath highlights the deliberate inclusion of service stories, both hers and her mother’s, as central to American identity.
• Quote:

  “We’re just servants of the community. And just like you, teachers, workers, people who are connected to unions, we’re all serving each other.”
  —Amy McGrath (B: 28:56)

10. Hope, Agency, and What Comes Next

[32:13–38:32]

• Amy asks the pressing question: "Are we doing enough to protect democracy?”
• Richardson expresses optimism, explaining that U.S. history cycles through moments of crisis, each time spurring citizens to reclaim our government and build something better.
• She encourages continued resistance and engagement, reminding listeners that “We the People” have always been the ultimate authority.
• Notable Quote:

  “The American people are waking up to recognize that they do have agency over our country. People tend to forget that our Constitution begins with the words We the People … If that government does not have our blessing for what it’s doing, it does not, under our Constitution, exercise power legitimately.”
  —Heather Cox Richardson (C: 33:13)

• Richardson argues, “We are never doing enough, because this is the water I swim in. But Americans are stepping up to the plate … We can always do more. And I have confidence that we are and will.” (C: 36:48)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On party over country:

  “The degree to which today’s Republicans have thrown over everything in favor of their continuing hold on power is unprecedented.”
  —Heather Cox Richardson (C: 03:48)

• On Supreme Court immunity ruling:

  “It overturned the fundamental principle ... that no person is above or below, but certainly above the law.”
  —C (C: 07:11)

• On citizen agency and hope:

  “We the People ... that document says that the power in the government is inherent in the people and that we the people give that power temporarily to people we have elected ... If that government does not have our blessing for what it’s doing, it does not ... exercise power legitimately.”
  —C (C: 33:16)

• On collective action and future cycles:

  “In each of those moments, the American people ... stepped up and said, listen, I may not agree with my neighbors ... but by God, I can agree that I have a right to be treated equally before the law, ... a say in my government ...”
  —C (C: 35:10)

Important Segment Timestamps (MM:SS)

• 00:29: Framing Trump’s presidency—Anomaly or outcome?
• 02:26: Richardson on partisan evolution and precedent.
• 06:13: Watergate versus today’s Republican party.
• 07:02: Supreme Court presidential immunity decision.
• 10:04: Politicization of the military—historical context & Posse Comitatus.
• 20:47: Attacks on American institutions—MAGAs’ “extortion program.”
• 23:57: The deluge effect, de-citizenship, and detention camps.
• 28:56: Amy’s campaign ad—service and community focus.
• 33:11: Are Americans doing enough to protect democracy?
• 36:48: Citizens’ agency, hope, and the historical cycle of progress.

Final Takeaways

This episode offers a sobering but ultimately hopeful look at the crossroads facing American democracy. Richardson’s historical perspective demonstrates that periods of crisis—though alarming—have historically given rise to exceptional American resolve and reform. The call to action is clear: Turn overwhelming times into motivation, recognize the tradition of civic agency, and refuse to cede the nation’s soul to extremism or apathy.