← Truth in the Barrel
Truth in the Barrel
Devil's Cut | On The Ground In Ukraine
00:42:50
Ukraine just pulled off one of the most devasting attacks in the history of modern warfare. Our own Denver Riggleman just happens to be on the front line. Learn what Ukraine thinks of America since Trump’s embarrassing meeting with Zelinsky, what is...
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- [00:01]
Amy McGrath
Today we've got a Devil's Cut episode from Ukraine where the Ukrainians have just pulled off a remarkable drone attack deep inside Russian territory. I'm Amy McGrath with my co host, Denver Riggleman. This is Truth in the Barrel, a different kind of whiskey rebellion. Welcome to Truth in the barrel. I'm Amy McGrath. This is the Devil's Cut edition along with Denver Riggeman who broadcasting from somewhere in Ukraine right now. Denver, please tell us where you're at and how are you?
- [00:41]
Denver Riggleman
I'm in Odessa. So if everybody wants to look on the map on Odessa today. Amy, I have had an incredible day. I've been in the Carson oblast. In Carson, I've been. I don't know if I've ever had a day like I've had today. I'm so tired and so, so sleep deprived. The town I've been. Oh my Goliav. I went from Mikolaev to Carson, talked to so many people today in the resistance, the partisans had had a day where I had to learn even though I know how to drive stick very well and I've driven on the left side of the road in Scotland, Ireland, England. I had to drive a left hand stick in a high threat FPV drone area and the car kept breaking down. So we actually had to push start a 2007 CRV with 200,000 miles in a drone zone. So it's been a day, a week of the ages, but today has been incredible. As you can see, I look like I was dragged out of a sauna after running four miles while somebody was hitting me with a whip. So that's pretty much great though.
- [01:57]
Amy McGrath
And we're so glad that you're okay. I mean, gosh. So a lot of news, right? In the last 48 hours, Ukraine has just pulled off this incredible attack deep into Russian territory, destroying what has been reported to be over 40 strategic bombers, a very large aircraft that are important to Russia by using drones in this attack. So what are you hearing from folks over there?
- [02:26]
Denver Riggleman
You know, it's been incredible actually, the morale boost that this has given. And you know what's so ironic, Amy, is that I have been with a drone company, right, with 50 cows and machine guns to shoot down drones that try to skirt along the river in Kyiv. I have been with the most advanced drone warfare professionals here in Ukraine over the last few days and I've seen and listened to the evolution of drone warfare. And I want to tell people what happened. What you saw in Russia is so unprecedented, but it shouldn't be Much of a surprise based on the Ukrainian methodologies in drone warfare, which I think right now they're the best in the world and the US should be side by side with them. But I'll tell you what happened in Russia. Destroying and Amy, you can check me, I'm so sorry, I've literally been in the woods and in the craziest places for four days. You can check me on this. But I think 34% of the strategic bomber fleet was destroyed. Amy's like, dear God, was he reading as he was coming here? Yes, I was. And then, you know, I also saw that billions of dollars were destroyed. The videos are all over Ukraine, and it really happened. And I think that's what people need to know, that this happened. I know how it happened. I know the ttps, and it's just incredible.
- [03:48]
Amy McGrath
Amy, so there's a couple things you threw out there that I want you to define for everybody. So what's a ttp?
- [03:56]
Denver Riggleman
Oh, tactics, techniques and procedure or the methodology or process of how they actually execute a drone engagement.
- [04:02]
Amy McGrath
Yeah, because we were seeing reports, Denver, of these semi trucks that have sort of opened up and then the drones come out of there and attack. That's just incredible. It's like James Bond type of stuff, right?
- [04:16]
Denver Riggleman
Yeah. I mean, when you're looking at GPS enabled drones or Jones drones that they have their own custom grid coordinates actually programmed in, it's frankly, I know we don't like to curse too much, but it's effing amazing. But it is almost James Bond like. But it took a long time to execute this mission. This isn't something that you do in three days. Right. You're talking about smuggling individuals or smuggling drones into Russia through a very organized and clandestine operation for trucks and. And you know, you know that you don't need a 4,000 kilometer rage drone. Amy, if you could park the trucks next to the airfield. You know, I know it wasn't exactly next to the airfield, but you don't need to really do that. And I think what. Amy, listen, this has been some, some of the most emotional things that I've ever seen. And I've been around, as you know, you've been around. And the evolution of drone warfare, I think is the future. I know we want to get into that a little bit, but I'll tell you this, what happened. There's a great article, I believe, by Max Boot in the Washington Post that talks about the changes in doctrine that we're going to see based on this attack. I don't agree with everything he says, because he has no fricking clue really what he's talking about when it comes to drone warfare. But as far as saying that this is, could be sort of Russia's Pearl harbor, that I agree with.
- [05:39]
Amy McGrath
Well, I have, I have deep respect for max boots, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna take that out and, and read that article. The other thing that you said earlier though, that I want you to define is you talked about an FPV drone area. So what, what is that?
- [05:54]
Denver Riggleman
It's first person view drones that kill people when they see them.
- [05:58]
Amy McGrath
So tell, tell me a little bit more, what does that mean?
- [06:01]
Denver Riggleman
Yeah, so, so FPV drones are really the killer drones that really most of the people worry about in these areas where Russia controls that sector. Obviously Ukraine is also very good with FPV drones, but really they're killer drones. You can call them that based on the payloads. Some even have different payloads. And again, Amy, me and you probably have to talk offline before our next show because I have to ask some of these people what I can talk about and what I can't because me and you need to talk thermal drones, we need to talk surveillance drones. Right. We need to talk bomb drones. We have so much to talk about. But the FPV drones are what scares people. I'll give you an example. Today I was in Kherson. Kherson is one of the hottest non occupied places in the country for drones. They call it human safari. They actually use these first person view drones, these FPV drones, to indiscriminately kill civilians or go after vehicles that are in these areas. That's what I was in today and yesterday. If people look at Kherson, there's a river that goes through it. The closer you get to the river, you're more to what they call the left bank. The left bank still has a bunch of Russian occupied on that other side. Or it's very, very hot. The right bank is a part of Kherson that's been liberated. I think it was November 11th of 2022. So what happens is, is that about 70% of the population have left Kherson. But today at 4pm, I sent a picture to Doug, our producer. And that picture was me in Kherson Square at around 4pm, which is the time they say to get the hell out of there. I have a video of me getting out of there as fast as I can in that blue CRV I told you about, Amy. That kept breaking down. Yeah, but about an hour After I left, there was a drone strike right where I was. And I think that's why when I told you it's one of the most emotional days I've ever had when it comes to being a non combatant and with the people I talked to today. And for our handler, I call him Magic because he gets us through every checkpoint for Magic in the front seat to look at video three hours after we left and go. And that heavy Ukrainian accent. Yeah. About an hour after we were there, there was a strike. And as you know, Amy, and I think Doug might have told you yesterday, there was a strike about 2km from my position in Kherson. So it's been quite a hairy couple days, ma' am. Quite a hairy couple days.
- [08:21]
Amy McGrath
And we're going to get into this, but people need to know because we talk a lot about Ukrainian drones, but the Russians have drones too. I mean, this is both sides going at each other using drones, using AI and all this technology. But I want to take a step back just a little bit.
- [08:38]
Denver Riggleman
Sure. Why, Amy? And a lot of it's exhaustion. I apologize. I'm.
- [08:43]
Amy McGrath
Hey, you know, I'm, I'm the one back here in lovely Kentucky drinking, by the way, Devil's Cut, okay. The Devil's Cut, Jim Beam. And I'll tell you very quickly before we get into this, the reason I chose this Jim Beam, Devil's Cut is because the Jim Beam brand and the brands that are associated with it, like Jack Daniels, they were one of the first to, as a corporation to say they were not going to ship anymore or sell anymore to Russia after Russia invaded Ukraine. Now, I know there's a lot on the black market and I'm sure if you're in Russia, you can still get Jim Beam. But kudos to the company for brown forming, I think, for, for saying, hey, you know, so that, that's, that's my. Cheers. But I want to ask you, why did you decide to go to Ukraine in the first place? Like, why are you there?
- [09:35]
Denver Riggleman
September of last year, Amy, I did a humanitarian mission into Ukraine with medical equipment, you know, ambulances, multiple types of vehicles for front, frontline medical evacuations. And, you know, I've been wanting to do it a long time because as you know, Amy, sometimes in order to get the stink of the place, you got to have your feet on the ground. You got to know what's actually happening and have context. And I went about as far as Kyiv and I went a little bit east of Kiev, so I really wasn't in too much danger. You know, I, I, I definitely got to see some things other people didn't. But once I started looking at their advances in drones, especially their homegrown organic drones, that was outside the Chinese assembly line. And I, and I'll be honest with you, Amy, still probably 70 to 80% of the Ukrainian components Chinese based on cost, but Ukraine can make their own drones. But when I came back after September, I'd fallen in love with Ukraine, and, you know, people started asking me for help and, and looking at the ttps, the tactics, techniques, and procedures, or how they were advancing in drone warfare. I really thought that the Ukrainians could teach the Americans something. So here I am doing the same type of humanitarian mission here. In May, however, I signed up to do a few other things, and I am also writing a book and doing a movie on girls that helped girls that, that really helped the resistance out here. And so in order to know what they're doing, I'm not, I had to go see them. And they're still living in Kherson. They're still living in Kherson and still there with their dad. And, you know, and also I got to see other individuals in the resistance, young teenagers, mostly girls that we've talked to, but also some of the most incredible people that were held in captivity by the Russians. I met Sean Pinner out here who wrote Live, Fight, Survive. Talked to Sean, now a good friend of mine. You know how it goes. Amy. So what I wanted to do is not only do humanitarian stuff, but I wanted to make sure that the girls that I'm writing about and the people I'm writing about know I'm not afraid to go where they live. And, yeah, so I, I just read.
- [11:59]
Amy McGrath
In the last couple days, Denver, about the number of women who are on the front lines in Ukraine, 60,000 in the Ukrainian Armed Forces, 20,000 women on the front lines. And, you know, you're talking about girls, but what, what, what ages are we, are we talking about here?
- [12:21]
Denver Riggleman
They start as young as nine and up to about 18 when they were in Kherson. And I don't know why, you know, I was happy and smiling and go, lucky right when I was there, Amy. But it, you know, how it affects you after the fact usually, right. And the stories you hear are pretty all, you know, awful, right? The, the girls, I can't say their names right now, Amy. We'll talk about that later. But they've been attacked three times. You want to hear the, the, the round robin of being attacked, a mine thrown at their van. They've been hit by artillery and by an FPV drone three times. Pretty amazing. And that's all between, I think September of 22nd through November of 24. And that's just one group. So when you're looking at the women here, I also talked to resistance, older ladies, even up to Babushkas and Kherson. And what they pulled off is nothing sort of extraordinary. It's this massive asymmetric intelligence, this human mesh network that combines, right, their love of Ukraine, their hatred of the Russians and their unique use of encrypted chat channels. They have created a whole new type of intelligence networking to actually use low tech in a very high tech environment and then to execute high tech weapons back against the Russians using low tech intelligence. I've never seen quite anything like it. And I think we can learn so much from them. Amy. Yeah, you got, you know, you know, I got three daughters, I got three granddaughters. You know how I am. Amy. And, and I think these, the, the, the, all of the, the girls and women that I have interviewed and, and the men with them and the things that they have done, especially those who are POWs, have, has created this almost this vortex of a story where we can actually go in and see exactly what happened to those who were dragged to the basement, which is the Russian interrogation rooms and things like that. And it's three or four days. It's taken my breath away, honestly.
- [14:27]
Amy McGrath
Yeah. And I think it's a really good reminder, Denver, that, you know, in all this talk of technology and AI and all of the things that we're going to talk about with drones, for example, you know, combat and war is human. There's such a human element to this that that technology can't replace. It's not going to replace it. And it's actually getting more personal in Ukraine. Would you agree with that?
- [14:57]
Denver Riggleman
Absolutely. You know, today, Amy, down in Kherson there's a road. We went to a cafe and it's hard to explain. I have the, I can't wait to show you. I could not upload all the videos to Doug based on connectivity, as you can, as you can imagine. But we went down in Kherson and there was nobody on the road. One car. Every car is parked under trees because of the FPV drones. So you camouflage your parking. I don't know if you know this. There's no lights in Kherson. They took them all down because you never want to stop once you hit the town. So if you think about the flow of traffic, it's pretty Insane. Even if there's only seven or eight cars, they're whipping around, especially as it gets closer to 4pm which seems to be the witching hour in Kherson. So we park under the trees next to a theater. There's nobody, it's quiet. There's two people walking, one person down the street, maybe two cars parked in a three block area. Think about the desertion of a town and an obloc that had 300,000 people and has lost 70% of their population. So we go around the corner and Amy, there's a whole group of people under concealment, netting camo, drinking coffee, smoking cigs, right. And I go down the theater and do just an incredible interview on this beautiful lady who the occupation came in just days after she had her child and what she had to do to survive. And there's still life there. The human cost is extraordinary. And I think it's radicalized me to the ordinary, it's radicalized me to facts and faith and the ability to look at things where they really are. And really the only way to do that for me was to look them in the eye on the ground and say, if I'm going to write about you, if I'm going to support you, I got to be with you. And that's my responsibility. And yeah, I did not know how far I was going, Amy. Some of these places, like, I was a little surprised myself, I got a little sideways. When you get lost, don't go east.
- [17:01]
Amy McGrath
Yeah, I mean people who are listening should really pull up a map and see and we'll send one in the show link from the Institute of Study of War as to where things stand at as of June 1st in Ukraine and you can see where Denver is and you can see where the front lines are. And just, you know, we talk about this being a drone war at the moment and that small drones are the most important weapon going on. And I'm going to have you, you know, assess that whether you agree or disagree. But one of the things that I've tried to, when I, when I teach down at University of Kentucky and I teach defense policy and we talk about what's going on in the war that I try to explain to my students from the reporting there at least, and I want to get your take, is with this new technology and with drones being the way they are, there is no place to hide. Okay, the, the ISR drones, which are their surveillance drones, the intelligence drones can, they may not have, they may not be armed folks, but they can see everything and the armed drones, they're the ones that are. You have to really worry about which, which you're talking about the FPV ones, they're everywhere. And so it. Gone are the days where you can just sort of hide. Now you're talking about nettings and things like that. So maybe there is a way for them to hide, I don't know, but it sounds like you knew they were coming, these attacks were coming, so that's good.
- [18:41]
Denver Riggleman
Amy, your questions are so spot on, I have to say. Why? Listen, there's a whole new kit that you need to take into these places, starting in Mykolaiev, going all the way to Kherson. I gotta tell you, you have to have drone finders, right? And if you go to the Ukrainian version of Amazon, you can actually just buy them. But when I talked to another lady whose son just died in action, which was absolutely brutal, the drone finder she had, that saved her and her husband's life. And I looked at the wreckage of the vehicle and she said, you know, my husband drives very good, you know. So that the drone finder she had was given to her. Yeah. Right before her son died. Yeah, her son gave it to her. So, yeah. So, you know, Denver, what's.
- [19:35]
Amy McGrath
What is a drone finder? What is that?
- [19:37]
Denver Riggleman
Drone finder looks at the. Actually has the ability to actually cast out and look at the frequencies of the drones to see the drones when they get close. Now, so everybody has that kit. So when I say, for instance, I was at a cafe in Kherson and we're talking. Right. Well, first of all, all the cafes have camouflage netting. FPV drones are mostly, even though they fly on a frequency, they're mostly optical drones. Okay, so that's why you have so many people. That's why cars don't stop, that's why they speed. If you saw how fast I drive through a town, you'd be like the holy shit. Right? I mean, we're rolling. No lights. You know, there's no lights in Kherson. So the ISR drones are very frightening. But the ones that you're talking about, where I'm talking about the netting, where sometimes it might not help, are the thermal drones. The thermals are what scared them, scare the troops on the ground the most. Twigs on your head aren't going to work. And so I was in Odessa talking to a Ford Legion guy, was prior army, and now leads some of the advanced groups into the most areast places right on the front. And he's like, you know what, brother? He goes, man, in 2022, we couldn't have actually probably taken Kherson the way we did, right? Coming up the rivers, right in full battle kit, right in full camo because the thermal drones are so good now that the Russians are using the thermal drones are target the FPVs and the bomb drops the big drones right to come in and just, just, you know, he said the word, you know, foxtrot you up, right? He said, every time we go, Amy goes, every time we go to a Ukrainian frontline regular unit, they're like, oh shit, things are about to get really dumb because they know it's going to get really bad because those guys are the real forward guys coming in to help them out. So these thermal drones are so effective that they're having to do a whole new type of, I hate to say TTP again, but that's what they're doing for concealment. And he goes, it's so difficult for movement on both sides because the thermals are so good on these drones. So we are looking at drone warfare being not only executed, but perfected by two sides. And you talk about that big, that big hit into Russia, it was like, oh yeah, my God, 34%. But the Russians are learning very quickly from the Ukrainians. I would say for every two Russian drones, you get one Ukrainian drone, right? Ukrainian, Ukraine is that good. But Russia's catching up and their ability to scale swarms is I think what we really need to watch out for. And by the way, you know, here's what I really think. If we're not here learning. My good friend from the Foreign Legion said he was watching a US army training video, a very recent one. He goes, you're dead, you're dead. Your whole frickin unit, you're dead, you're dead, you're dead because of thermal drone and ISR drone movement. And that's the thing we need to be looking at, Amy. We got to be looking forward. And right now the US isn't because Russia is, is catching up to Ukraine. And guess what, everybody's using Chinese drones. They're the ones who are really ahead of the game.
- [22:34]
Amy McGrath
Well, so I know, look, when I was in Afghanistan, it was a long time ago, but I know that during the day the enemy seemed to have.
- [22:44]
Denver Riggleman
More.
- [22:47]
Amy McGrath
Cover, shall we say? And we sort of ruled the night. What is it? What is it like there? Where is the most dangerous time? Is it during the day or is it during the night?
- [22:58]
Denver Riggleman
The night's very dangerous, Amy. You know, there's a little bit more Cover at night, as you know. But right now, a couple of my bubbas are just getting back from the field with an FPV ford unit. And I have the videos. And as he was with the FPV ford unit, they can only take one. That's why I was in Kherson today. Got a little too close to the river. And, you know, I'm sure my. My wife watches this. She's not going to be real happy with me today. And, you know, but I wanted a coffee, Amy. I wanted a fricking coffee. So anyhow. And by the way, Amy, this cafe, one person in it working, one person there, and the person there was the daughter of the theater owner I had actually interviewed earlier in my. Which was the biggest coincidence. His name was Alexander, her name was Alexandra. And we sat down and she goes, why weren't you at the theater? I'm like, well, I interviewed this incredible. This incredible director who was taken by the Russians. She goes, oh, that's my dad. Anyway, so. But yeah, I think what it comes down to right now, and I don't know if I'm already going over the same ground, but I do think that if at some point we're not aware of how effective they are at night, especially with thermal drones, we are in such trouble right now, the US if we went into battle with as advanced tactics as the Ukrainians and the Russians have in drone warfare. I actually had my friend from the Foreign Legion say this. He goes, you know, bubba, he goes, we ain't going to beat China. He goes, if we're going conventional, conventional, with their advanced tactics and drone warfare and their ability to scale at a way that we cannot, we're not going to win.
- [24:43]
Amy McGrath
I'm reading reports that AI is being used in a significant way at the end, at the terminal phase of these drones. In other words, you know, an operator can get the drone in the ballpark, but it's AI that's figuring out what part of the truck, what part of the tank, whatever, to target, and doing that completely autonomously. So can you talk a little bit about this AI technology and what you're seeing?
- [25:11]
Denver Riggleman
First of all, yes, Amy, you have great information, number one. Number two, it's actually from start to finish, it's almost to the point and where I believe. I'm not going to say exactly right now, but I believe that AI can be used as a mission planning tool where they can swarm more and more drones in a way where it's not just the terminal phase, but it's also the situational awareness phase of the entire battle space, which is actually helping targeting not only for specific drones, but also to ballistic missiles and also to specific troop movements. Think about what I just said. So then the question I asked, I said, where are we going? I said, so what's your, what's your limit? Right? So you know, are you talking 100 drones or you're talking 200 drones? He goes, well, Denver, you, you're in it, you're in AI. Well, yeah, I am. He goes, it's, it's resources, isn't it? Ah, you're right, it's resources. And what he was saying is resources can actually push it not to unlimited, but to a point where it looks like there's unlimited drones in the sky. And imagine this, and we had this discussion. Imagine 3,000 drones linked in a mesh, an AI mesh network. And that's where Ukraine wants to go. That's where Russia is trying to go and the people enabling that. I know we have great drone technology and I know we have swarm technology and works. I even know some of the companies. But I'm telling people right now, Terminator, it's not the robots that you needed to be afraid of in Terminator, it was the airborne assets in Terminator, the.
- [26:54]
Amy McGrath
Ones that can see everything.
- [26:57]
Denver Riggleman
That's why I think in the next 10 years, I think you're going to see more and more standoff drone warfare where it's drone on drone until they can actually get to the soft pudgies.
- [27:07]
Amy McGrath
And it sounds like both sides are getting their drones, at least the parts from China, right?
- [27:13]
Denver Riggleman
Many, many. What we're seeing though is that repairs are happening now. They're getting so good that they can repair with components from France, from China, from any country, they can get the specific wiring. If you look at how good Russia and China is in the field now, they can do those repairs in real time, probably by scrounging at times some of the wiring and other the components that they need. And that's what, you know, I've seen, you know, with some of this. So yes, most of the stuff is coming from China, but now that Ukraine is going organic, think about the rise in, in AI chips from Nvidia or amd. Think about Chinese chips, right? And Chinese stuff like Deep Seek and other things that they're using for AI. And people are like, well, Denver, you know, you're getting a little far fetched, right? No, I'm not. Because as an automation layer, AI is incredibly effective. And if you're talking about a specific load of weaponry and the actual Drones communicating based on that AI load or what they're looking at, it's. And if you look at the resourcing needed, not that hard. I mean, it's hard, but I think in the next 10 years you're going to see some of the most robust swarm, whether it's isr, whether it's fpv, whether it's thermal, whether it's the larger drones with the larger payloads. Think about a drone, it's not just like a Predator, right? You know, with a Hellfire and you know, there's 500 pounders, but you're talking about 400 drones that are swarmed with 15 kilogram payloads.
- [28:44]
Amy McGrath
Right? I mean, it's just, it's a different way of attacking that we haven't seen before. And so we started out this conversation talking a little bit about the attack deep into Russia and what that did to, what that has done to the morale of the people in Ukraine. But what. And we know where the United States is kind of right now because we have this president who hasn't really been supportive of Ukraine or Ukrainians. And I want to ask you, what do the Ukrainians need from the United States at the moment?
- [29:20]
Denver Riggleman
Material Money. Yeah, I mean, you know, I talked to Ukrainians at length and as you know, Amy, you know, I, it's, there's different opinions right, on this, even with Ukrainians, but many are saying, listen, we just need an America that we know that has our back, right? It's almost like they need material. They want to make sure that America can, can finance a lot of this war with them. If, you know, the EU has done some great things, Poland has been, you know, spectacular. But I'm a little worried about the election in Poland, but I know that's another Devil's cut or, you know, another, another day, because I was tracking that yesterday also or day before. But they need money, right? If some. So a drone operator told me today, very, very effective drone operator. If we had a one to one drone equivalency with Russia, we'd have already won.
- [30:16]
Amy McGrath
Right?
- [30:17]
Denver Riggleman
It's numbers, they're that much better tactically. However, Russia scales more. So it seems like, you know, if there's 5000 drones and an AOR for Russia, Ukraine's going to have 2500. You know, Ukraine just can't keep up. They're very, very adaptable. They're very, very fast at what they do. But Russia has a better wartime supply chain or a way to actually scale their weaponry a bit better than Ukraine right now.
- [30:48]
Amy McGrath
Right. Do The Ukrainians see Americans differently now because we elected this president and he's not super supportive a little bit.
- [31:01]
Denver Riggleman
Now, the Americans that are here, especially humanitarian, like we're doing, and people need to remember that we're, you know, I'm not a congressman anymore, a military member. Right. I'm here under my own volition, helping with humanitarian supplies. And the discussions we've had is we love the Americans. We know you all aren't Trump, but you know, they're like, but we really can't rely on you right now, can we, boy? You know, I know that's a simple statement, but we know it. We know it, right? We know it. And they said if we just, if America would just come in, just come in and give us what we need, right? Stand with us, stand beside us. Because right now the Ukrainians can teach us more than we can teach them about the type of warfare they are creating. They are creating this new dynamic way of drone warfare in this environment. Things that, Amy, I wish you would come next time. I know it's difficult, but I think when you see some of the dynamic processes they're using, what I got to see with their kit, their drone kit, the different payloads, the different sizes of drones, the fact that they can organically make their own, even though it's more expensive using their parts than China, because they have to build them. If America would come in right now, my guess is if we had a real president and a real national command authority that understood the situation of what America can learn and right now, what we could do to Russia's, Putin's, Russia, I think a real president, a real American would already be here making sure that they had the proper equipment and proper resourcing.
- [32:42]
Amy McGrath
Yeah. And you know, Trump has said recently, Putin's gone crazy in his remarks, and I, of course, I don't believe really anything Trump says, but the reality is Putin hasn't gone crazy. He's always been a cold blooded killer. He's always been somebody who tortured POWs and, you know, stealing children, killing civilians. And from my view here back in the United States, I, I don't see an end to this war anytime soon because the Ukrainians care so much about their country and they know that Vladimir Putin cannot be trusted. And so my question to you is, do the Ukrainians that you talk to out there, do they feel like, hey, there's a ceasefire coming right around the corner or we're gonna, we're gonna get to a sustainable peace soon? I mean, what they saying? What are they thinking?
- [33:44]
Denver Riggleman
So I had four Ukrainians last night till about one in the morning. I thought I could sleep in a little bit, but an air raid siren went off in my Goliath at around 3:30 in the morning. And, and I'll tell you, Amy, I think I'm a pretty badass person sometime. But actually after being in Kherson and then an air raid siren going off and it's 4 o' clock in the morning, I thought I was okay. I didn't sleep as well. It was weird. Even though I knew we were cool, it was so. But we had talked to 1130 in the morning. I went and bought all of them some Ukrainian cognac and vodka. So we sat around and we talked. And over cognac and vodka, what I found out was that all of them said, no matter any treaty or any agreement we make with Putin, he will break it. We have to fight to the end. Right. Number two, which was a beautiful statement. One of the translators said this, we don't hate the Russians. We just want them to leave us alone. But to stop them and to get them to leave us alone, we have to murder them. And that is the exact quote, by the way, Amy. So they don't hate the Russians.
- [34:52]
Amy McGrath
Yeah.
- [34:53]
Denver Riggleman
Many that I talk to don't. And by the way, I don't know if people know this. Do you know that so many that I talked to has family in Russia that now they don't talk? The families in Russia, the cousins are like, you picked the wrong side. You need to be with Mother Russia. And I've talked to so many people like that, and they are devastated. The families are separated. And I think that's something in the war that's been underreported is a separation of Ukrainian and Russian families.
- [35:20]
Amy McGrath
Yeah. And, you know, we don't have here in the United States any memory of being invaded by a neighbor the way, I mean, Pearl harbor doesn't, that doesn't count. Okay. That we don't have that memory in the same way we don't have a memory of mass persecution or oppression or extermination the way that the Ukrainians have. And so it's, it's fascinating to me to think about how they're living their lives every day and in the midst of this literal existential threat to their families, to their homes, to their way of life, I just don't know how are they doing it?
- [36:11]
Denver Riggleman
I asked that question, Amy. You know, I, I, I asked that question you just asked to every person. I talked to 30 people, like, not when I say, 30 people. That's 30 interviews with people all around us, right? I mean, it was unbelievable. And they said, well, what else do we do? I talked to a guy who was actually smuggling minds from the Russian through the Russian to Ukrainian lines, right? Incredible individual. And I said, why do you do it? He goes, why wouldn't. I am Ukrainian. This is what we do. We have to do it. I said, but aren't you worried about life and limb? Aren't you worried that you could be killed, that you could leave your family behind? Do you have fear as you're smuggling minds? Components on a backpack back and forth between occupied Ukraine and unoccupied Ukraine across Russian lines? Do you know what his answer was, Amy? You can only be killed once. So this is. I. I'm telling you, I've. They're more dug in. I. And maybe it's who I'm talking to, Amy, but it even feels more like we're going out all. Even more than September. And here, the US Since September has abandoned our responsibilities to those who fight for freedom. And when you talk to the Ukrainians and they say, we just want to be left alone, we don't want anything special, Just leave us alone. Boy, it sure does sound like another country that started to do stuff right around the Declaration of Independence to me.
- [37:52]
Amy McGrath
Yeah. Amen to that. So I want to ask you about this Drop Kick Murphy's. Tell us about what happened there.
- [38:02]
Denver Riggleman
Well, me and Ken are close now, you know, me and Kenny Casey, lead singer, the Drop Kick Murphy's. Yeah. So the Dropkick Murphy's were in a studio. I was. I was with them, and I wanted to be there for the Dropkick Murphy's for a video to help Ukraine with a. With a. With another band from Ukraine that's a cover band called O Hamster that literally. Oh, Hamster, like a. Like a. Like an Irish name. Oh, hamster, like a little hamster. So Ken Casey was there, and I was actually interviewing with a couple people. Constantine, who was a Ukrainian troop during the Kherson battle, who was left in a ditch for four days and had to. Was bleeding out and trying to tourniquet himself for four days, right? Well, by himself. So. Constantine, incredible human being. So Ken Casey was there to recording his song, and of course we were supposed to be there. So, you know, I said, hey, Ken. And he goes, I've heard about you, brother. Denver Riggleman. Man, you're hero to me. And so awesome. Which was right. And I said, ken, you haven't heard of me. He goes, brother, you're the one who went against Trump. You're the Republican. I like, man, right? So I'm like, ken, I've been a fan a long time. He goes, I bet you have. I said, actually, I have. He goes, come on. He goes, you want to sing backup for me? So doing this. Yeah. So Ken's doing the song. And I said. And we got all the. There was four veterans there. We were. We were all there talking about these new, you know, what's happening in Ukraine with new war fighting techniques and what's happened to these poor people taking prisoner and injured. And so Ken's like, come on. And he's singing it with me, right? He goes, watch my lips, Denver. Come on. And. And so he goes, oh, we. And you know, the producer. So, yeah, so they shot a video, and the veterans, we sang some backup for the Dropkick Murphy. So Ken Casey's a huge fan of Ukraine. Yeah. So what a man, really a hero and did so many things for the Ukrainians while he was here.
- [39:57]
Amy McGrath
Well, I'm glad that you can have a little bit of fun while you're out there. And we have a lot more to cover, so we're gonna. We're gonna be talking to you throughout your trip as. As much as we can, given the connectivity issues that you have, because this is such an important issue. You know, it's just great to see you. I'm glad you're out there, Amy.
- [40:18]
Denver Riggleman
I've missed you, to be honest, Missed you. Missed the whole team, obviously. Missed my family. But this is a very important show. You know, I've said it from the beginning, and I promise you, Amy, I promise you, when I was. I was in a basement today, eating borscht with chicken hearts with 40 theatrical individuals, performers, and they're in a cinder block basement to protect themselves from the drones flying up the river in Kherson. And I'm sitting there eating borscht with them, and they didn't really know who I was. And one of the directors came over and she started to take videos with me. And I said, no. I said. And so my translator and our fixer. Magic, right? I have magic and Mad Max, our fixers, right? They're like, hey, he's a former congressman. And, yeah, everybody was. Couldn't believe it. I think I might be the only current or former government official that's ever been in that basement in Kherson, close to the river, eating borscht with chicken hearts, talking about how they wanted truth to come out through their poetry and their plays to combat Russian disinformation and propaganda. I don't think anybody's ever had a discussion like I had in that basement. And I got to tell you, I'm honored to be here. And I. Well, I just wish other people could experience it.
- [41:40]
Amy McGrath
Your. Your experience out there and sharing it with us and sharing it with the world is so important. And if there's one thing that I could say to people listening, is that we Americans cannot forget about what is happening in Ukraine. We cannot forget about our partners, the people who are fighting against oppression and fighting for their lives right now. So thank you for sharing and thanks for. For being with us.
- [42:07]
Denver Riggleman
You know, Amy, thank you for being patient with me today. And Amy, I think everybody should know that I'm doing this on a burner phone. So. So I just find it amazing that you are so patient to wait for me and nothing but love from Ukraine and can't wait to see you guys back in the States.
- [42:26]
Amy McGrath
Well, be safe out there, Denver, and we'll see you on the next episode.
- [42:30]
Denver Riggleman
And remember, if everybody wants to freaking learn about Ukraine, you better subscribe to Truth in a Barrel, you better download on all your favorite podcasts, and you better follow us on our socials or you're a loser.
- [42:42]
Amy McGrath
We got a lot more to come.
- [42:49]
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