Truth in the Barrel

Episode: "Devil's Cut | Our Military Under Trump w/ Lt. General Ben Hodges"
Hosts: Amy McGrath & Denver Riggleman
Guest: Lt. General Ben Hodges (Ret.)
Release Date: November 11, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the state of the U.S. military and its alliances under the Trump administration, featuring an in-depth conversation with Lieutenant General Ben Hodges, former commander of U.S. Army Europe. Hosts Amy McGrath and Denver Riggleman, both military veterans, discuss pressing issues in American national security, including the future of NATO, the use of military force abroad, civil-military relations, and the critical importance of alliances. The conversation explores current threats from Russia and China, legal and ethical concerns with executive military action, the evolving landscape for women in the military, and even touches on Army football (and bourbon).

Key Discussion Points and Insights

The Value of U.S. Alliances and NATO Under Pressure

(00:30 – 06:49)

• Hodges emphasizes U.S. reliance on alliances, underscoring that America cannot project global power alone.
• Quote:
  "The United States does not have enough capabilities, air, land or sea or special forces or intelligence to do anything by ourselves. We depend on allies..." – Hodges (02:42)
• Article 5 of NATO—invoked only after 9/11—shows the mutual trust underpinning NATO's security arrangement.
• While past administrations have criticized European defense under-spending, the rhetoric and doubt cast by the Trump administration marks a radical shift, risking cracks in alliance cohesion.
• Memorable Moment: Hodges cautions that open U.S. doubts about defending NATO countries could embolden Russian aggression.

Intelligence Sharing, Economic Ties, and Why Alliances Matter

(06:49 – 09:36)

• U.S. security is enhanced by allies’ intelligence and local knowledge, especially from Eastern Europe.
• Hodges describes the interconnectedness of security, intelligence sharing, and economic prosperity.
• Quote:
  "Europe is America's biggest trading partner... We benefit from a Europe that is prosperous because of the economic relationship." – Hodges (09:00)
• Recent concerns have emerged about allies like Dutch intelligence hesitating to share information due to fear of politicization.

Military Exercises, Readiness, and Interoperability

(09:36 – 14:04)

• McGrath and Hodges agree that canceling joint exercises severely undermines military readiness.
• Exercises expose communication and technological gaps that can only be solved through practice.
• Quote:
  "You cannot just sit in the barracks or hang out and expect to be able to perform, just like no professional or competitive sports team could do that. You have to practice." – Hodges (11:54)
• Memories of failed interoperability with French allies in Afghanistan highlight the importance of real-world preparation.

Global Hotspots: Russia, Ukraine, and China’s Calculus

(14:04 – 17:23)

• Hodges lists defeating Russia in Ukraine as top priority, linking it directly to broader international stability and deterrence of China.
• Quote:
  "The administration should say, because it's in our interest, that Ukraine actually defeats Russia..." – Hodges (14:35)
• Weak U.S./allied resolve in Ukraine sends dangerous signals to China regarding Taiwan and the Philippines.

U.S. National Security Strategy and the Shifting Focus

(17:23 – 19:35)

• Hodges critiques current U.S. focus, suggesting Europe is now a lower priority after the Western Hemisphere, Indo-Pacific, and Middle East.
• The decision not to replace a U.S. brigade in Europe, amid an ongoing war, is seen as a damaging signal.
• Quote:
  "It almost feels like Western hemisphere is ours, G, you can have Indo Pacific… and Europe, you're kind of on your own." – Hodges (18:33)

Use of Military Force and War Powers

(19:35 – 25:17)

• The discussion turns to drone strikes on alleged narco-terrorist boats—actions Hodges questions both legally and tactically.
• Quote:
  "Law enforcement can't just kill... So I don't, I don't understand how we got to where it's okay to launch a hellfire missile... instead of letting the Coast Guard intercept it." – Hodges (20:45)
• Both hosts express concern over the administration sidestepping Congressional authorization by arguing that unmanned drone strikes do not constitute ‘hostilities.’
• Quote:
  "I can't imagine any law school would pass somebody on an exam if they use that as a legal justification..." – Hodges (23:56)

Military Ethics, Legal Gray Areas, and Civil-Military Relations

(25:17 – 31:50)

• McGrath and Hodges discuss the challenge for officers in following orders in legal gray areas, especially when the Supreme Court has given wide latitude to the president.
• Quote:
  "No officer I know, I'm sure, didn't join the military and hope that you would get pardoned one day." – Hodges (27:51)
• Senior military leaders bear special responsibility for safeguarding their subordinates from unlawful orders and for speaking out when necessary.
• Hesitancy among retired generals/admirals to comment publicly is discussed. Some see it as political, while others fear repercussions or hold traditionalist views.
• Memorable Moment:
  "If it's a bad policy or a stupid order, but it's legal, you know, you have a duty to make it work... but if it's unlawful, you have a duty not to do it." – Hodges (27:51)

Women in the Military: Progress, Challenges, and Institutional Change

(31:50 – 46:35)

• Hodges reflects on being part of the first West Point class to admit women in 1980 and commends their perseverance.
• Both hosts discuss the ongoing need to improve retention and advancement for talented women.
• Quote:
  "You can change the law, but you can't change culture overnight. And, you know, it was awful for them. But these were incredibly brave, tough women who were determined to do it." – Hodges (36:18)
• Opening roles like Ranger School to women required not just opportunity but a commitment to standards and fairness.
• Both bristle at unfounded claims that standards were lowered for women.

Camaraderie, Football, and Bourbon

(46:35 – 50:33)

• Lighthearted discussion on Army-Navy football rivalry, with Hodges describing class watch parties and the game's unique esprit de corps.
• Hodges reveals a fondness for Bulleit bourbon.
• Memorable Moment:
  "There’s that famous thing that this is the only game where players on both sides would die for everybody that was watching it. And it's, it's cool… it is a, it's a great spectacle." – Hodges (48:20)

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "We depend on allies, whether it's their actual forces, intelligence sharing, or the access we get through bases... This is to our benefit."
  — Lt. Gen. Ben Hodges (02:42)
• "Anything that creates a crack in the cohesion of NATO... If the Russians perceive that the United States might not actually defend a particular NATO country... the risk of Russia making a terrible miscalculation possibly goes up."
  — Hodges (04:38)
• "You have to practice. And so the complicated nature of modern warfare in a multinational construct requires that you practice to sort out the communications challenges..."
  — Hodges (11:54)
• "If the Chinese see that we can't or are not willing to... help Ukraine defeat a weakened Russia... our deterrence against Chinese aggression is undermined."
  — Hodges (14:35)
• "I don't understand how we got to where it's okay to launch a hellfire missile... instead of letting the Coast Guard intercept it... it strikes me as being unlawful."
  — Hodges (20:45)
• "No officer I know... joined the military and hoped that you would get pardoned one day. I mean that's, that's not why you joined."
  — Hodges (27:51)
• "You can change the law, but you can't change culture overnight."
  — Hodges (36:18)
• "There's that famous thing that this is the only game where players on both sides would die for everybody that was watching it... it is a, it's a great spectacle."
  — Hodges (48:20)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• NATO and U.S. Alliances — 02:42–06:49
• Intelligence Sharing & Economic Ties — 06:49–09:36
• Readiness and Military Exercises — 09:36–14:04
• Current Threats: Russia, China, Ukraine — 14:35–17:23
• U.S. Security Strategy and Prioritization — 17:23–19:35
• Drone Strikes & Executive War Powers — 19:35–25:17
• Civil-Military Relations & Lawful Orders — 25:17–31:50
• Women’s Advancement in the Military — 31:50–46:35
• Army-Navy Football & Bourbon — 46:35–50:33

Tone and Style

The episode is a dynamic, candid exchange marked by respect, military camaraderie, and frank discussion. Hodges brings technical expertise and honest concern; McGrath is knowledgeable, direct, and engaged.

Conclusion

This episode is a comprehensive, eye-opening look at the evolving challenges facing the U.S. military and its role in global security—underpinned by a nuanced defense of alliances, rule of law, and the need for ethical, prepared leadership. From the geopolitics of the Ukraine conflict to cultural change within the armed forces, listeners are given access to unfiltered, expert perspectives framed by a deep patriotism and commitment to the Constitution.

Listeners new and old, especially those concerned about national security, the military, and civil society, will find this conversation timely, relevant, and thought-provoking.