Amy McGrath (4:06)

And you're talking about RFK Jr. The Secretary of Health and Human Services. You know, and I should note that we do not have a CDC director at the moment. The NIH director, the National Institute of Health has said this is, quote, you know, saying that kids and pregnant women should not get this vaccine is, quote, common sense and good science. And it sounds like, mom, this is not good science and it's not based on any medical data. Do you agree with that?

Dr. Maryanne McGrath (4:38)

It's absolutely, that's absolutely true. And, you know, common sense, no common sense, if it's enlightened with past experience. And a bit of science says that where vaccines are present, disease is down, and that's still the case. And so where can we look for verification for this? Just within the past week, we've had statements from, for example, the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology, from the American Academy of Pediatrics, all issuing their concerns that, hey, wait a minute, this isn't so. There's no good reason to do this. And you're talking about vulnerable populations. You know, it's interesting because we have some idea, unfortunately, of what it's like when misinformation goes out about what to do about a pandemic or a particular illness, a virus, whatever, because when Covid appeared, it appeared in a place where it had never been or never recognized, and it was devastating. And the misinformation that came from the top in this country was the bane of many people's existence. And yet there were reality tests like, you know, cold freezers, trucks outside of hospitals, because the death rate was increasing at such an alarming concern. Well, you know, we, we were able to vaccinate many people. And over the years since that appearance of the pandemic, some people have developed immunity, some because of the vaccinations, some good immunity because of vaccinations and boosters, and some immunity because they themselves had contracted the illness and. And survived. And, you know, we need to look at that because we're talking about an illness that has the potential to kill people, and it's still doing that.

Amy McGrath (6:56)

What was interesting to me, mom, about this new advice from HHS is the fact that they said, hey, if your children are healthy, they don't need to get the shot. And I was thinking to myself, well, okay, so unhealthy kids should get the vaccine, but healthy kids shouldn't. And then pregnant women, pregnant women shouldn't get the shot. Really? Like, to me, I'm like, is there something that pregnancy changes you, that you can't get Covid? Like, still understand the logic there?

Dr. Maryanne McGrath (7:33)

Well, you know, that's interesting that you say that, because I think, you know, the current thinking and understanding is that actually pregnancy is a time of greater risk for illness, not only for the pregnant mother, but also for the fetus, of course. And so any significant illness, flu. Let's look at another viral illness common in our society, is much more likely to cause problems for the woman and the fetus if contracted during the pregnancy. That's why we recommend flu shots for pregnant mothers. Not only that, but when a baby is born in the first six months of life, it retains some of the antibodies that were passed to it from the mother. So the mother becomes, in effect, a way of inoculating the baby, that little one in the first six months against these illnesses. We don't recommend Covid shots for infants in the first six months of life because we're hopeful that mother has protected both herself and. And her baby during her pregnancy. And children up until age 2 are really at greater risk for complications from a COVID infection, which include not only the immediate complications of the way the illness is expressing itself, for example, respiratory difficulties and so on, but also for the. For the really serious complication of long Covid. Yeah, and, you know, vaccinations help protect against long Covid. We don't have tons of data because after all, we've been collecting data until it was stopped only for the past few years because of the occurrence of the pandemic. But there's definite evidence that that tells us that vaccination will help to prevent the existence of long Covid in someone who becomes infected if they have had a vaccination.

Amy McGrath (10:01)

Yeah. And the reason that I wanted to do this small batch episode, and people need to know that when the headline came out and it deals with a lot of medical stuff, the first person that I call is my mom. Okay? Because look, we're all sort of experts in different things, right? I mean, I know a lot about the military, I know a lot about national security, but when it comes to, like, vaccines and what's going on in public health, you know, mom, I call you. So the first thing I did on the drive home yesterday was call you. And you, you gave the answers to my very basic questions. And I felt like, wow, everybody needs to hear this. And one of the things that you brought up yesterday was that the consequences of this new official advice from the Department of Health and Human Services is that insurance companies can now change what they cover. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Dr. Maryanne McGrath (11:09)

Yes, I guess, you know, that's another issue. Okay? And we're not talking about a scientific basis for this decision. This is purely greed. But insurance companies generally allow at no cost those vaccinations which are recommended. Okay? And that has been the case with the COVID vaccination. But it's a perfect economic out for the insurance companies to not cover those things which are not recommended. A very common example that has occurred within the last five years, you know, the shingles vaccination, which is actually highly effective for people who take it. The new shingles vaccination was not covered by insurance because it was not recommended for any group prior to a couple of years ago. Once it was recommended, then it's covered. But, you know, we're talking about two possibilities. We worry, for instance, that will there be enough Covid vaccination available if people want to get it? Will the company stop making as much when they know it's not going to be covered by insurance? Of course, we don't know the answer to that. But assuming that the supply would remain the same, we still have the possibility that insurance will not cover it if it is not recommended for that specific group. And of course, that specific group, as I said before, is a group that should be covered. Certainly oldies like me are going to still be covered. Okay, 60, if you're 65 and above, you've got it made because, hey, hey, your insurance will pay for your vaccination booster, which we should get. What about people who are normally concerned and normally want to provide the best protection possible for, for example, their children, their healthy children? They want them to remain healthy, which is why they get them flu vaccinated every Year. If this continues as it is, they would not be able to be reimbursed. How serious is it? Well, there have been some estimates over the past couple days that suggest that the COVID vaccination, a single booster dose, would be as much as $200.

Amy McGrath (14:03)

Yeah.

Dr. Maryanne McGrath (14:04)

A dose. Well, hello. We're automatically counting out the most vulnerable group of people.

Amy McGrath (14:12)

Well, I got three kids, so that's 600 bucks right there. I mean, finally. I just want to ask you, mom, the very basic. What's going to happen if less kids get this vaccine and fewer kids get this vaccine and fewer pregnant women get this vaccine? Like, what's going to happen?

Dr. Maryanne McGrath (14:35)

Well, we know what's going to happen because we have a model. In many other illnesses, less vaccine means more disease. Okay, now, how serious will that be? Well, look at what we know so far about COVID We know that most cases of COVID do not kill people. That, of course, depends on no underlying difficulties. All right. But for healthy people, most infections with COVID do not kill people. That doesn't mean that they're innocuous, because Covid can cause some serious difficulties over a long period of time. And more importantly, we know now that there is such a thing as the lingering effects of the vax, of the illness, the virus, over many years, and we call that long Covid. It's no small thing. And if you have the incidence of that, by the way, in children under two who have not been vaccinated but have contracted, Covid is considerably higher than in a population, any population of children that's compared. It's outrageous. Do we want to take that chance with our children? I would not. I mean, I really wouldn't. You know how I feel about vaccinations. So. And.

Amy McGrath (16:10)

And that is the bottom line here. This is not based on data. It's not common sense. It's political, and it's going to hurt people.

Dr. Maryanne McGrath (16:21)

Yeah.

Amy McGrath (16:22)

And that's. That's why I wanted to do this small batch with somebody who has credibility in this area. So thank you, mom, for coming on the show, and we really appreciate it.

Dr. Maryanne McGrath (16:36)

Thanks, Amy. Thanks for asking me.

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