Truth in the Barrel – Small Batch: The "Nuclear Testing" Announcement

Hosts: Amy McGrath, Denver Riggleman
Guest: Joel Rubin (National Security Expert, former U.S. State Department official)
Date: October 30, 2025

Episode Overview

In this urgent “Small Batch” episode, hosts Amy McGrath and (absent for this episode) Denver Riggleman respond to breaking news: Donald Trump has announced the resumption of U.S. nuclear weapons testing after a 30-year moratorium. National security expert Joel Rubin joins Amy to discuss the dangers, global implications, legal issues, and confusion surrounding this move—particularly the inadequacy of Trump’s stated reasoning and the bypassing of Congressional oversight.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shock and Context of the Nuclear Testing Announcement

• Announcement Details: The United States, per a directive from Trump, will resume nuclear weapons testing for the first time since 1992, ending a long-standing voluntary test ban.
• Initial Reactions:
  • Amy McGrath: “My first thought was, wtf? … Oh, boy, this is terribly dangerous and unnecessary.” (01:46)
  • Joel Rubin: “It was a political move, not a strategic one. And that's very dangerous when we're talking about the world's worst weapons.” (02:34)

2. History and Impact of the Test Ban

• Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT):

  • The U.S. led efforts for global nuclear test bans post-Cold War; has signed, but not ratified, the CTBT.
  • Other nuclear states adhered to the norm, with only rogue states (e.g., North Korea) conducting tests in recent decades.
  • Amy: “We led the fight to get that treaty in place … We don’t want any nuclear weapons detonated on Earth.” (04:15)

• Risks of Resuming Testing:

  • Could reignite a nuclear arms race with Russia, China, and possibly new nuclear states.
  • Undermines decades of non-proliferation leadership and strategic stability.
  • “If we lift that off and we start testing … this is where it gets really dangerous and uncontrolled.” (Joel Rubin, 07:17)

3. Clarifying Misconceptions: Testing, Delivery Systems, and “Keeping Pace”

• Misunderstanding in Administration Justifications:

  • Trump administration claims the need to “keep pace” with Russia and China, suggesting those states are actively testing nuclear weapons.
  • Joel and Amy clarify: these countries, like the U.S., test delivery systems (missiles, etc.), not actual warheads.
  • Amy: “No, they're not. They're not testing nuclear weapons. They might be testing delivery systems … It's not the same thing as testing a nuclear weapon itself.” (07:44)
  • Joel unpacks the confusion between nuclear-powered systems and nuclear-armed missiles, noting even U.S. submarines use nuclear power but aren't inherently nuclear-armed.

• Superiority and Safety of U.S. Arsenal:

  • U.S. has invested hundreds of billions in maintaining, modernizing, and monitoring arsenal reliability—no need for detonations.
  • Computer modeling and the work of the National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) ensure arsenal safety.
  • Joel: “This idea that we don’t know is just garbage to be put in straight talk. It’s a complete falsehood.” (05:51)

4. Strategic Balance and Global Security

• Numbers and Treaties:
  • U.S. and Russia together hold 90% of global nuclear weapons; China's arsenal is a fraction in comparison.
  • The New START Treaty between the U.S. and Russia maintains arsenal caps, expiring soon; no similar agreement with China.
  • Reopening testing would dramatically destabilize arms control efforts worldwide.
  • Joel: “We have enough to blow up the world 50 times over. … This idea that we have to keep up when China has a tenth what we have is also a complete misstatement of what the reality is.” (11:52)

5. Congressional Oversight and Executive Overreach

• Alarm at Lack of Checks:

  • House is absent, Senate is not being briefed on either Caribbean military operations or nuclear policy shifts.
  • Echoes of constitutional crisis: the President is acting unilaterally, violating norms and possibly laws requiring Congressional buy-in for military actions.
  • Amy: “We don’t have a king here. You don't unilaterally just start a war; that's not in our Constitution, that's not in our history, shouldn't happen.” (15:25)

• Dangers of Partisanship in National Security:

  • Recent precedent-breaking briefings limited to just one party in the Senate—a practice sharply criticized as "unacceptable, unconscionable, unamerican and deeply offensive to Congress." (Joel, 14:44)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Joel Rubin [02:34]: “It was a political move, not a strategic one. And that's very dangerous when we're talking about the world's worst weapons.”
• Amy McGrath [04:15]: “What's striking to me is we led the fight to get that treaty in place. The rest of the world agreed with us … we don't want any nuclear weapons detonated on Earth.”
• Joel Rubin [05:51]: “This idea that we don't know is just garbage to be put in straight talk. It's a complete falsehood.”
• Joel Rubin [07:17]: “What this test ban treaty has done is essentially capped the potential for new countries to become nuclear states … If we lift that off and we start testing … this is where it gets really dangerous and uncontrolled.”
• Amy McGrath [12:28]: “If we detonate nuclear weapons, any in any sort of test, that would be a problem for the world, it would be a major provocation to Russia and China. It is damaging … to global security right now.”
• Joel Rubin [14:44]: “We would never do a partisan brief. It’s unacceptable, unconscionable, unamerican and deeply offensive to Congress. … It’s deeply dangerous to our national security to play partisan games.”
• Amy McGrath [15:25]: “We don’t have a king here. You don't unilaterally just start a war, that's not in our Constitution, that's not in our history, shouldn't happen.”

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:07] – Amy opens on breaking news and introduces guest Joel Rubin
• [01:46] – Amy and Joel’s initial shock and discussion of political vs. strategic motivations
• [02:34] – The risk of politics in nuclear policy; consequences for global security
• [04:15] – U.S. leadership in nuclear test bans and the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT)
• [05:11] – Technical explanation: U.S. arsenal safety, NNSA, and why testing is unnecessary
• [07:44] – Clarifying the difference between missile testing and nuclear warhead testing
• [08:40] – Confusion over “nuclear-powered” vs. “nuclear-armed” systems
• [10:15] – The limits of “keeping pace” and the strategic realities of global arsenals
• [12:28] – Testing as provocation; the case for restraint
• [13:16] – Congressional absence, lack of oversight on nuclear and Caribbean operations
• [14:44] – Dangers of partisan briefings and bypassing congressional norms
• [15:25] – The constitutional necessity of Congressional approval for acts of war
• [16:31] – Parallels with the Iraq War; need for public and congressional buy-in
• [17:18] – Amy wraps up, thanks Joel Rubin

Conclusion

This episode delivers an urgent call for public awareness and Congressional vigilance in response to the dramatic policy shift on nuclear weapons testing. Joel Rubin’s insights clarify the complex technical, legal, and strategic fallacies underpinning the Trump administration’s move while underscoring the fundamental dangers—both immediate and long-term—of returning to nuclear testing. The discussion closes with a bipartisan appeal to restore checks and balances in U.S. national security decision-making.