B (3:38)

And this is a lot why these ICE agents are running around with cell phones and taking video. They're trying to get shots of people rioting and that kind of stuff. But here's the thing. I was worried that the American people wouldn't or would believe the administration's claim that the ICE agent, you know, was hospitalized and that he was justified in shooting this 37 year old woman who is a mom, who is basically just caught up in these, in the protests there, what's going on. And I thought the American people, you know, enough. I was worried that we would have. 50% of the American people believe the President's claim and Kristi Noem's claim that this poor woman was a domestic terrorist. Well, you know what, Miles? The answer to that is no. The American people don't believe the bullshit. They don't believe that they've seen the video. How do we know this? Because the news of the murder of Renee Goode by ICE in Minnesota has broken through. 76% of voters say they've seen the footage. And it's not 50, 50. It's not like all Democrats believe that this is a bad thing and Republicans believe this is a good thing. It actually, you know, the vast majority of people, well, 50% say the ICE agent used excessive force and shouldn't have done it. 35% say that he acted appropriately. That's a, that's a pretty big jump. And most people think the Trump administration is hand this wrong. So that at least is, I guess, a positive here.

A (5:19)

There are silver linings, actually, all over the place. I mean, it's very easy to get in the muck on this one and say, we are screwed. The President of the United States is a wannabe dictator and he is living out those repressive fantasies on the national stage every single day. That is true. But what is also true is that the American people are starting to act very defiantly. They are being defiant in the face of this. And one of the things that I think really stood out about what happened with Renee Nicole Goode and the aftermath is people woke up to the fact that using one of these things to document your encounters with Immigration and Customs Enforcement can mean the difference between the public accepting a lie about a domestic terrorist attack and them seeing the truth with their own eyes. You know, last night, Amy, we held a briefing for defiance.org, where we brought in a bunch of those organizations that are training people how to lawfully and peacefully document encounters with ice. One of those groups is called Witness. Witness.org, they're a big global human rights organization. And we announced a grant to them last night to help them expand their efforts around the country to make sure people know how to document their encounters with ICE and how to engage in those situations. There was another group that, that we talked to on the ground in Minnesota, and you've seen them in the news. It's a group called menarca. These are the people that are doing the know your rights trainings all over Minneapolis. I never would have imagined in the United States of America we would have to train thousands and tens of thousands and millions of people on their constitutional rights. But Donald Trump's ICE agents are doing everything they can to jump over the guardrails of the law, that people need to be reminded, here's what they can do, here's what they can't do. Here's how you de escalate in a circumstance stance when a federal officer is barreling past the Fourth Amendment, is barreling past the First Amendment and trying to get you to do things that as an American citizen, you don't have to do. But that's a silver lining because people are responding to that call. They are showing up by the thousands at churches and gymnasiums for these know your rights trainings to learn how to document those encounters. And that's one of the ways out of this is going to be transparency. When they say domestic terror, we say, I'll show you the tape.

B (7:40)

Right, right. I mean, and that is a huge difference. Like, can we imagine, you can imagine if this happened and there was no video. I mean, we, a lot of people, we grow up, we sort of believe. I mean, we sort of believe what the FBI says. We believe what, what. But now that what the government said immediately after this was just a flat out lie and they're doubling down on this. Oh, well, the ICE agent had internal injuries and bleeding and I mean, come on, you can see the guy walking away. Lots of people, including myself, have called for massive immediate reform of ice of this. What I. It's this renegade agency now filled with lots of people who, they're just recruiting. They have less training than, you know, almost everybody in the military. I mean, how do you see things? I mean, I think they need to require warrants for arrest. I think they need to make sure that we don't. They wear visible identification. They should be taking the masks off all of these things. But gosh, we need even more than that. I mean, it just needs to be reined in.

A (8:55)

Yeah. I mean, look, anyone who's ever hosted a Halloween party where, you know, people are drunk and wearing masks knows that the thing can get out of control because people feel like they're not identified and they can do things they wouldn't otherwise do. These guys are wearing masks and they're drunk on power. And that's something that is absolutely unacceptable. That is something that is leading to these abuses we are seeing every, every day. That is something that has led to what has now gone from little incidents to a completely systemic nationwide problem and a threat from one of our own law enforcement agencies. Reminder to everyone, you're paying for this. You are paying to be repressed by this administration. So put aside any outrage about the most important things like the Constitution. I would be pretty pissed off and am pretty pissed off that I'm giving money to these guys to go kill my fellow Americans, to burst into their homes without warrants, to yank them out of their cars. Not cool, guys. I don't wanna pay you to do this. And so the reform starts with something very straightforward, which is the law. They need to start complying with the law. And then on top of that, Amy, I think you're absolutely right. We are now seeing in this moment that there is a need for new laws in the books in this country, that we will not accept a literal shadow police force that walks around like this. And you cannot know who they are. And you know why? Because just in the past week, if you only pick one reason besides all the obvious reasons, it is that criminals in this country are increasingly dressing up as, guess what, ICE agents with masks on. Because they know that people are so fearful and now becoming deferential, that, well, that must be law enforcement, that they're using it to hoodwink and to violently assault and to steal from people. That alone is a reason why we need these new laws on the books. Agents, no masks. Identify yourselves. Wear your badges.

B (10:46)

Yeah, I mean, right now, it's almost like the streets of America look like the streets of Russia, you know, with this force running around really unchecked at this point. And you make a really good point. These folks work for us. You know, this taxpayer dollars, they're supposed to be working for Americans, not shooting in the face and dragging people, you know, to the ground. It's just. This is crazy. I don't know.

A (11:13)

Dude, you're my employee. You are my employee. Respect the rule of law that we put in place for how you operate. And if not, I'm gonna revoke my consent for you to be that employee. And I think that's what's coming, Amy. I mean, of course it's not gonna happen during the Trump administration, but mark my words, there is going to be sweeping overhauls of these agencies and of the whole of the Department of Homeland Security.

B (11:38)

Yeah, well, I can't wait for that day, unfortunately. I feel like there's going to be a lot of pain getting there. I want to spend the rest of the time with you today, Miles, talking about foreign policy. And I know, because there's a lot going on. We're focused, of course, here at home with rising prices and what's going on with ice, but there's a lot going on around the world that we need to pay attention to. I want to start out with talking to you and getting your take on something that really jumped out at me. Okay. Last week, there was an interview by the New York Times, you probably saw this, where they interviewed a bunch of New York Times reporters, sat down with President Trump, and they asked the President if there were any limits on his global powers. And he basically, he said, yeah, there is one thing. My own morality, my own mind. It's the only thing that can stop me. And first of all, take aside the fact that having Trump's morality be the guardrail isn't always helpful or an assuring. Okay. But it struck me that this is exactly what the founders of our country designed. Our country and our Constitution to prevent. Right?

A (12:54)

Yeah. I mean, there's opposite. There's a reason. Amy, When I decided to write my opinion piece from inside the administration in 2018, calling out the president's inclination toward illegality and corruption, the very first thing I cited was not episodes of law breaking or specific anecdotes. The very first thing I cited as the core of all of the problems that Donald Trump's own cabinet was seen with their boss, the Commander in Chief, was that he was unmoored to any first principles, that he had no morality. That was the core of all of it, whether it's what Jim Mattis saw as Secretary of Defense, John Kelly as Chief of Staff and Secretary of Homeland Security, Mike Pompeo over at CIA and then the State Department, they all saw the same thing. And they all saw that at its very core was the President's lack of a moral center. That's why I led with that. And it is just as true almost nine years, eight, nine years later, as it was then and now we are seeing what Donald Trump's unchecked conscience results in. Everything you've seen in the past year was foreseeable, was openly predicted, and was something that Donald Trump in the first term wanted to do, but was convinced not to do. Whether by the so called access of adults or lawyers or friends or allies, he was talked back from the brink. And now Donald Trump's conscience, such as it is, is running wild. And you are seeing the consequences of that. So, yeah, I mean, look, he admitted to it. He's admitting to it in the pages of the New York Times, the same pages where I published that warning that his conscience was could be the downfall of America. And we've got to take him at his word, we've got to take him at his word that he doesn't see the Constitution as a guardrail, that he no longer sees his team as a guardrail. He doesn't see Congress or Republicans as a guardrail. He doesn't see the courts as a guardrail. What do you do in the face of that? Well, first you acknowledge this means I'm in something different than a competitive multi party democracy. This means I am living in a moment where our country is becoming an autocracy and I need to respond accordingly. That is the first step.

B (15:18)

Yeah, I mean, it's real. If you don't have a Congress that checks, you have a Supreme Court that's basically given him full immunity for anything that he does. His version of American supremacy has objectively put us in more danger. Right Our allies don't trust us anymore. I'm worried that he's going to blow up the greatest alliance in world history in NATO. And I'm, I'm, I'm worried here. I mean, it's just, it's just shocking to hear those words and, and also shocking to see that, like, well, America just kind of goes on. Well, it's just Trump. But, no, this is a problem.

A (16:00)

Sleepwalking into it now. He already has blown up the alliance. I would say, Amy, is, you know, the hot take among a lot of analysts is that Donald Trump is getting very close to pushing the first domino that could destroy the NATO alliance. I think he's already pushed it. He doesn't need to land a hostile jackboot on Greenland territory in an effort to take over the country in order to push that first domino to detonate the alliance. He's done it by threatening that. And look at what happened yesterday. Of course, we had officials from Denmark and Greenland in Washington, D.C. for negotiations with the White House on America's efforts to take over Greenland. Those officials left and said, nope, the administration still wants to, quote, conquer Greenland. And in response, our allies, France, Sweden, Germany, have deployed troops to Greenland. We have got NATO allies not preparing for an external invasion. They are literally preparing for an internal invasion. That itself has breached the trust that is the foundation of an alliance like NATO. It's only built on trust. There is no global police force to force people to live up their treaty, to their treaty obligations. There's no global court that can actually say to a country like France, you must comply with your NATO obligations. They only do out of trust. So after 9, 11, when we were attacked and NATO invoked Article 5, an attack on one is an attack on all. That's basically what it does. The only, only reason other countries responded is because they trusted that the United States would then go after the bad guys and that they were defending the good guys. It's all based on trust. But you don't need to know anything about global politics to understand this. You only need to have ever been in a relationship where there was infidelity, because the moment that breach of trust happens, even if your daily routines stay the same, the relationship changes forever. Now, that doesn't automatically mean the relationship's over. That's why I say a push of the domino. We haven't gotten to the end of the line of dominoes. NATO is not broken forever, but NATO is deeply, deeply damaged because of this breach of trust, because of the threat to take over its territory by the United States. And like a broken marriage is going to require years and years of repair if we are to fix it. That is a grievous, grievous bit of damage that Donald Trump has done to the security of the United States.

B (18:30)

When I was in Afghanistan, I flew alongside members of the French Air Force. The Danes were there, you know, the Dutch were there. So many nations were there with us, alongside us doing logistics. Some were our medical, they did the medical tents. Some were had C130s. You know, they all did their part and we fought alongside each other. And those same guys that I fought alongside in Afghanistan are now doing exercises and getting together to try to defend Greenland against us. It is just unbelievable how low we've gone. And I feel like, you know, with Donald Trump saying, well, we're going to take it one way or the other. I mean, I just look at this and I'm like, why? This is crazy. We already have the basis that we need there. I mean, I just, again, it's one of these things that's just this harebrained, stupid thing that he has got in his brain when he sits on the toilet and tweets out, and now it's destroying global security. I mean, this is where we're at.

A (19:49)

Yeah, we are all less safe because of his verbal flatulence. And I will say that the, the thing that is so striking about Greenland is that it defies all logic unless your North Star is power and money. Because Donald Trump knows that Greenland is a resource rich nation. Why do you think he selected Venezuela? Of all the countries in Latin America that have a drug problem coming into this country, and he said fentanyl was the motivation, why did he pick Venezuela? Guys, I will tell you, it is obvious. Oil, oil, oil. And that would have sounded like a conspiracy theory back in 2003 when people said, why is George W. Bush talking about going into Iraq? Ah, it's oil. Well, George W. Bush never tried to actually go seize oil and make money for himself personally. Donald Trump is attempting to do that. Donald Trump has said it's about oil. Well, when Marco Rubio said it's about human rights, when his Defense secretary Pete Hegseth said, no, no, it's about drugs. Donald Trump, the Sunday after they went into the country to get Nicolas Maduro said, basically, nah, it's about oil. He went on Fox News, he said it. That's why he's doing it. Do you really think that Donald Trump would invade Greenland not because of those self interested motivations, but this time this one's righteous. This One's got some sort of unseen moral reason behind it. No, it's about self enrichment and it's about power. His own White House chief of staff said a month ago, almost today, that Donald Trump has a, quote, alcoholics personality. He's not a drinker. What's he drunk on? Exactly what I told you the ICE agents are drunk on because of their inspiration from the President. He is drunk on power. I saw it 10 years ago. I see it with this man today. It is literally the greatest threat to this nation is that our president is so drunk on power, so imperialistic, he's putting all of our alliances and national and international stability at risk.

B (21:46)

Talking about invading Greenland. Invading Greenland. It is not in the United States interests, okay? We already have the bases that we need there. It is just crazy. It would destroy NATO. It would throw the globe into upheaval. I mean, it is just crazy. And the opinion just, by the way, nobody really talks about this, but I think it's important. What do the Greenlanders think?

A (22:13)

Like?

B (22:14)

The Greenlanders we know, vast majority of them, 85, 90% oppose leaving Denmark and joining the United States. I mean, so if the people that are there don't want us now, we're going to just take it over like we're some, you know, imperial country just invading a country that just like Vladimir Putin. I mean, it is crazy. And now the White House is talking about weighing, giving $100,000 payments to Greenlanders in order to try to sway them, to try to say, hey, come to the United States and we'll give you money. I mean, I gotta tell you, at a time when Americans can't afford health insurance, when Americans are, you know, the price of everything is going up from energy, heating, groceries. Now we've got the President wanting to hand over US taxpayer money and $100,000 apiece to Greenlanders to make it the 51st state. Seriously, this is crazy.

A (23:18)

Indiscriminately crazy. And I think it's so fantastic that you point to the money portion of this. Just before the holidays, Donald Trump raided one DOD account for affordable housing to then cut checks to members of the military that they could have gotten anyway for affordable housing and said, I'm giving every member of the United states military a 1400$. I would love to go back to those folks and say, wow, look, the commander in Chief gave you a $1,400 check. Now he wants to deploy you to take over a country where he's going to pay every person there, a foreign national, $100,000 to team up with us. That is incredibly insulting. Now, look, I'll say this. I like Greenland. I like the people of Greenland. I like our NATO allies. I like the idea of Greenland from a strategic standpoint and from the standpoint of a close friend being closer to the United States, ain't nothing wrong with that. And if there are peaceful ways to talk about how to deepen our relationship with and our presence on the island consistent with the wishes of the people of Greenland. Rock and roll. Let's do it. There's ways to do that, and there's ways to do that that are vastly more effective than what Donald Trump is doing. But this ain't the way. And the people of Greenland don't want it. And the people of the United States don't want it. The majority of the people of Greenland have no interest in becoming part of the United States. And a CNN this week's shows, guess what? 75% of Americans don't agree with Donald Trump's approach. No one is in favor of this except one man in the Oval Office and his flunkies who are turning that Oval Office into an echo chamber.

B (24:59)

And the American people don't want us to take over Venezuela. You know, this week, the president put out a photo of himself identifying himself as the acting president of Venezuela. I mean, and you just talked about what is really behind this. It's not going after drugs. It's not even regime change. It's about oil. Right. It's about royal. But I want to get your take on this, because you hear this from people who are on the right or maybe people who aren't, you know, digging deep into this issue. They will take this claim from the administration or really from the president. We're simply taking back what is ours. They stole our oil. That the oil is rightfully America's oil, because, you know, it was our oil industry that went in there and they stole our assets. And now we're gonna do something about it. What do you say to people? Because, I mean, when you, when you hear that, what do you say?

A (26:03)

Well, first I say Donald Trump lied to you and you clearly bought it because he told you that this was a law enforcement operation. We were going in to arrest Nicolas Maduro on gun charges. That's what we were doing. We went in and killed dozens of his security forces and sent the military in to arrest him to be arraigned in federal court in New York on, like, gun charges and some trafficking charges. That's why we did this. It wasn't any other reason. Wait, break Break. Donald Trump posts picture of himself as President of Venezuela. Just kidding. We are taking over the country. Just kidding. It is about oil and it was our oil. This is all stupid. The history doesn't back any of that up. And even if it did, Amy, none of this is worth us signing up for another quagmire. The man got elected to end the forever wars. And that wasn't just a far right MAGA talking point. People on the left, people in the center, they were exhausted by the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. They didn't want to see us doing this kind of thing again. And certainly not to enrich the President of the United States. Doubt me about enriching the President of the United States. Why on earth are we putting the money that is being seized in foreign bank accounts instead of the United States? Treasury reports this past week that the money that's being seized is being sent to bank accounts in Qatar. What does Qatar have anything to do with this? I don't know, but that's what the President's doing so he can have control over this so that there is not oversight. This is really, really scary stuff. And look, the core of it goes back to the President's inherent amorality and desire to advance his own personal self interest.

B (27:53)

I read that the plan, I guess the plan now is, at least according to the President, for US Oil companies to fix all the problems there, get the infrastructure back up. And you know what, Miles, US Oil companies are like, we don't want to do that. It's super expensive and the political situation there is unstable. It's super violent there. I mean, you know, in international business there's this thing called risk. And companies don't want to necessarily go into places where they might lose their investment. And it's, you know, investing in Venezuela right now, when the political situation is super unstable, it's not really smart. And the other thing that people need to understand, you can't even if a country has resources, right? You can't snap your finger and just say there's going to be a healthy economy tomorrow without stability. We learned this in Afghanistan. There was all this talk. I did two tours in Afghanistan, and especially the second tour, there was all this talk about minerals and precious minerals in Afghanistan, things that could be mined that we could then, that the country could then use it as a source for revenue and Afghanistan could start to move forward. The problem was it was never stable enough to mine this. So when we left, the Chinese came in and they tried to do it and they couldn't even do it because you got to have stability in order to have an economy, even in a place that has rich resources.

A (29:36)

Yeah, that shit never works out in foreign policy. And there's a very rich history over the past several hundred years of Western powers imagining that they can go colonize places and use extractive industries to enrich themselves. And they tend to find that the security costs and the management costs of trying to govern a country far outweigh any advantage. Ask the United States, ask the British, ask the French. I mean, literally just crack open a history book. It's pretty obvious. Now that's not to say I don't have an interest in being savvy as a world power and finding opportunities to enhance prosperity for the American people. I'm just into the ways that aren't incandescently stupid for doing that. And this is one of those very stupid ways. And I'll tell you, Amy, there's another reason that those executives, those oil executives, were lukewarm in their conversations at the White House. It's not just that they don't want to go into Venezuela, they don't want to go here. They don't want to go to prison. And I will tell you exactly what their public policy people and their general counsel's offices are saying to them, because I used to work in one of those types of offices for Google, and they are saying to their chief executives, do not commit to this. There is huge risk on the back end of this administration. You will be investigated and you could potentially go to prison for engaging with this administration's efforts to go hijack the Venezuelan oil industry. There are corruption, red flags all over the place and kickbacks and misuse of military force and law breaking and hell, they're blowing up innocent people in boats just off the coast. You don't want to touch this with a 10 foot pole because the next administration going to come in and investigate the pants off of these people. So you can see those oil executives, look, they're resting on arguments like, well, it takes years to get the oil flowing and this will require a lot of infrastructure. And I'm telling you, behind closed doors they're talking to their people and saying, I don't really want to wear an orange jumpsuit. I don't want to go to prison.

B (31:46)

Yeah, that's a really good point. And I didn't even think about that. I was just thinking about the massive risk that a big corporation would be taking on going into a place like Venezuela that is literally a failed state right now. And I know it's a, it's, it's a conversation for another time. But this obsession of oil and the future. Oil is obviously very important. It's very important for geopolitics. But I will say China is moving toward electric cars and cleaner energy, and we should be talking and raising questions about the future of oil demand and how important or less important it's going to be. And I feel like we're not, you know, we have an administration right now that is just looking backwards and not looking forwards, especially when it comes to electric vehicles and the stuff that he's done here in this country to stop programs that were already in place, to kind of move us forward in that arena. But that's a, that's for another day. I want to get to Iran. Okay. Lots going on in Iran. A lot of protests, of course, and the current administration has said, I'm laughing, but it's not really funny because the president is saying, we're with you, the Iranians who are protesting. The problem, of course, is that, what does that mean when the president says, help is on the way from the United States to those who are protesting to take a step back. The state of the economy in Iran is really bad. People are upset. There have been two weeks of protests, and the Iranian regime has really cracked down on those protesters. They've stopped the Internet there. Text messaging is down. They've killed protesters, imprisoned many others. But I don't really know what, what the United States should do about this. I'm wondering what your thoughts are, and I'm very concerned when the president says to the Iranian people, don't worry, you know, we're going to do something. Okay, what's that?

A (34:07)

Well, first of all, it sounds awfully familiar what's happening over there. I think the people of Minnesota would say things are starting to look a little bit like Tehran. But putting that aside for the moment, I will say I am not just reflexively against anything that Donald Trump does. I remain a conservative. I remain, you know, a foreign policy internationalist. And I believe that the Ayatollah and the Iranian regime are a danger to, of course, the Iranian people, to the Western world, and to the United States of America. These are real bad dudes who want to do real bad things to good people, and we cannot let them. However, the contrast here could not be more extraordinary. That Donald Trump three months ago posts AI generated images of him dropping feces by fighter jet on American protesters, and yet he is running to the defense of Iranian protesters. I'm not telling him not to do the Latter. But I am saying it's disgusting. We have a president that does the former now. It is, I think, in America's interests to support the Iranian people retaking their country. I don't think that Americans want us to get into yet another quagmire. And the hypocrisy here about freedom of speech, I think, is really what's at the core of this. Americans want a president who is consistent domestically, internationally, a president who says, we stand for free speech everywhere in our own country and overseas. And the president's doing a piece of that right now in Iran by signaling moral support for the Iranian people and their right to free speech. But he is designating people who speak freely in the United States as domestic terrorists. That is reprehensible. That is what we really need to be focused on is how do we take his foreign policy, reconcile it with his domestic policy policy. And if we can't point out that glaring hypocrisy, because it's one of the most glaring hypocrisies of this Trump administration.

B (36:18)

Yeah, that's a great point. I mean, I feel like I am behind the Iranian people. I think the regime there is terrible. They've been oppressive for years. I've watched Iran over the years. As you know, this isn't the first time. There have been massive protests before and uprisings. Every time the regime seems to kind of squash them in Iran, Lots of folks are saying, this time is different. I don't know. We're sort of watching this. But I'm very concerned because I don't feel like we as a country have some really great heavy hitters in diplomacy right now. I worry when the president says, help is on the way, what does that mean? Does that mean another round of it strikes? Okay, we have groups in Iran that we know are not. They were not the extremists. They were sort of more moderate. And those groups are now trying to crack down on the protests. Right. And that, I think, is a concern because they don't see an exit ramp. And so I don't know. I don't know what to do here, but I wish we had some diplomats that could. Could step forward and help.

A (37:42)

Well, here's the thing. I'll demystify this for folks, you know, they wonder, gosh, why is it that Donald Trump wants to be friends with some dictators and not friends with others? Why does he want to be friends with some democratic countries, but he shuns most of our allies? I will tell you, it's very, very simple. Personal grievance. All of it. Once you use that as the decoder ring, you understand all of Donald Trump's foreign policy because he has personal grievance against the Iranian regime and the regime in Venezuela because both of them have tried to undermine him or make fun of him. Look at press reports. This is not Miles making it up. Press reports say that what tipped Donald Trump over the edge in going to arrest Nicolas Maduro was that Nicolas Maduro went to rallies mocking Donald Trump's dancing style. And three sources say that's when Donald Trump decided, I'm gonna go invade a foreign country. Massive foreign policy decision made with your tax dollars puts you at risk because Donald Trump, he didn't like the dancing. All right, what about the Iranians? Why does he go after the Iranians? But he's best buddies with Putin. Well, Vladimir Putin on at least two occasions has tried to help Donald Trump get elected. Donald Trump likes that we will be friends with that autocracy. The Iranians. The Iranians tried to keep Donald Trump from being reelected. They meddled in our elections against Donald Trump. They made threats against Donald Trump. He doesn't like that. Now, they haven't mocked his dancing yet, but surely if they did, he would go seize the ayatollah. This is insane. Amy and I can sit here as Americans on two different sides of the political spectrum. I'm a conservative. Amy's left of center. And we can agree these bad regimes, these despots, they are not our friends. And it's in America's interest to work to undermine them in a responsible way. Donald Trump says, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. I'm gonna pick and choose which ones I engage with, depending on if they make fun of me or if they support me for reelection. What the hell is happening here? That's the President of the United States. That's it, folks. That's the Dakota ring. And the reason he doesn't like our Western allies is because. Because these tend to be unlike those autocracies, countries with leaders with a conscience. I will never Forget, Amy, in 2018, when we had the G7 meeting that was held by the Canadians, and Donald Trump was dragging his feet like a petulant kindergartner that doesn't wanna go to school. And he said, I don't wanna go to the G7. They're mean to me. Those countries aren't nice to me. They don't do what I wanna do. Do you know what he wanted to do? He wanted to skip the G7 and go straight to, guess what? North Korea. Because he was planning on a visit to North Korea to visit one of the most brutal dictators on the planet. He begrudgingly went to Canada for the G7 meeting. But you know what he did? He bugged out of there early. When they didn't laud him and clap for him and kiss him, he left early so he could fly and get there in advance to go meet his buddy, Kim Jong Un. He picks and chooses foreign policy relationships based on personal grievance. And guess what Kim Jong Un did that Western leaders did not do. He wrote, in Donald Trump's words, love letters to Donald Trump. And you know what? Donald Trump liked that. So maybe if the Ayatollah wants advice, here's a piece of foreign policy advice. I guess write him love letters and maybe he won't invade your country.

B (41:03)

I mean, having a leader like we have is really making us super vulnerable from a national security perspective. I mean, that is very clear. I want to take you now, Miles, back home to talk about the Fed, because this also is a story that, you know, kind of makes the headlines, but with everything else going on, it sometimes gets pushed back to page two or three and it's huge. Okay, so the Fed, the Federal Reserve folks, isn't just about America. Right. It's about world economic stability. Right. The world looks at us. Our banking, the world banking, a lot of it's dependent on trust in the United States and our monetary policy, which is led by the United States. And so what is happening right now with these attacks on the independence of the Fed is very, very dangerous. So Donald Trump just in the past week, his Department of Justice subpoenaed the agency last Friday and is now investigating the Fed chairman, Jerome Powell, and is saying that, you know, I guess there is a federal building that had renovations and the cost of renovations went over budget. And so now Donald Trump's Department of Justice is trying to investigate and I guess prosecute the head of the Fed. But this isn't about the building. It's about the head of the Fed not caving to Donald Trump, not changing the interest rates, and Donald Trump going after him. And to me, it looks a little desperate, but I think this is really concerning.

A (42:51)

Yeah, it looks desperate. It's backfiring. And I'll hit the good news up front before hitting the bad news. The good news is that the most vanilla, you know, Wheaties eating public figure in America, boring. Jerome Powell had the stones on a Sunday night to go to the office, put on a suit and record a video to say, no, this is wrong. The Trump administration is trying to criminally investigate me. This is insane. We are going to push back. That level of defiance didn't exist a year ago. People were capitulating. They were getting on the bended knee for Donald Trump because they were so scared. And now people are standing up, including the least likely characters to potentially join the resistance. The Fed chair is not someone you associate with revolution and associate with defiance. But Jerome Powell showed that that's the good news. The bad news is, if anyone had doubt, especially folks on Wall Street, Donald Trump desires to take over the Federal Reserve. Why is this bad again? If you have ever opened a history book, you know that one of the first things happens that happens in autocracies is that leaders try to take over the central bank. Why do they try to take over the central bank? Because they want to make money flow easier. And here's what I'll compare it to. Imagine you're in a house and the house is kind of cold, but you take over the thermostat. Well, if you crank up the thermostat, in the short run, you make everyone in the house feel better. Ooh, the house is nice and warm. But if you crank it up to maximum in the long term, what's going to happen is the bill's going to go way up and the pipes might burst and chaos gets unleashed. But all leaders care about, especially would be autocrats, is they care about in the short term, the people liking them because they're populous. They want to make people happy. They want to make money flow easy. They want to make you feel warm. But it is inevitable that if you keep doing that, you will break the economy on the back end. In fact, Amy, I'm going to give you a different example because just bear with me. I think a lot of people do not understand the Federal Reserve, why this is important and what it means. Okay? So I'm just going to do a quick example here. This is a house. This is your house. If you're watching this, you live in this little house, okay? A helicopter flies over your house. This is the Federal Reserve. Right? Now, that helicopter that controls the money says, hey, we're not gonna rain money down on you because it will screw up the economy. But the people in that house say, no, no, I want money. I want money. And so Donald Trump says, yeah, give them money. Let's print more money. So he's gonna take money, he's gonna take over the Federal Reserve, and he's gonna go into that helicopter and say, rain money down on the people. Rain Money down on the people. If you're in this house, you're gonna say, that's great. Look, I got a Hyundai that I didn't have the other day. But what happens next? In the short term, you're feeling rich, but you're gonna go take this out. You're gonna spend it at a local store. But guess what? Your house was not the only house that had money. Rained down on it. Everyone did. So everyone shows up with $100bill to go buy the same stereo. And the people selling the stereo say, well, wait a second. I don't have to charge 100 bucks anymore. I should charge 200 bucks because the demand is so high and everyone can afford it. That's called inflation. Prices start to go up. This is literally what will happen if Donald Trump takes over the Fed. He'll lower interest rates. It makes money cheaper. It makes it easier for more people to get money. And guess what? Every goddamn thing you buy in the United States will eventually start to get more expensive. The bread, the houses, the cars, the stereos. You name it. And then all of a sudden, your bank account that felt so flush with cash is now worth less. I care about this personally, Amy, because if Donald Trump takes over the Fed, my savings account, the years my w. My wife and I have spent as government servants like you, trying to cobble together a little tiny savings account will be worth dramatically less in the long term than it is now. But people are idiots, and people will think, wow, in the short term, I feel so rich because he's made the economy flush with cash. Do not buy into the lie. This is the magic trick of dictators. It will ruin this economy. The people on Wall street know it. The American people need to know it.

B (46:55)

And that's why Wall street and the stocks and everything when this happened, they shoot up or down. I mean, they're all over the place because there's uncertainty here. But this is also exactly why the Fed is independent. It was designed that way so that presidents could not do what you just said they would do, because they want it to be separate from, hey, there's an election coming up, up, and I'm going to make people really happy and get reelected, thereby screwing over our economy. They set it up that way, and now Donald Trump is trying to ruin it. And. And I'm. I'm worried about that. I'm hopeful that. That, you know, he's not successful here. But one thing I wanted to ask you, Miles. The. The Fed chair's term ends in May, so Trump's going to be able to appoint somebody else.

A (47:54)

And he will. But here's why I think they're doing this now is twofold. One, they realize that there is a shot clock on the presidency. And so those five months matter to Donald Trump. And so he wants to create the predicate to get Jerome Powell out. He wants to be able to fire him with cause so he can speed up that shot clock. That's reason number one, this is happening. Reason number two that this is happening is Donald Trump does not want another Fed chair to come in and act like Jerome Powell. Act like someone who is independent and who is unwilling to follow the President's orders. He wants that person to come in even if he thinks they are a loyalist. He wants them to come in and know that they have to comply or they will end up like Jerome Powell. They will end up federally investigated. Again, not a miles conspiracy theory. This is exactly how Donald Trump's team has been talking about their revenge campaign. Weeks after Donald Trump issued an executive order to have me investigated by the federal government, his henchmen went and spoke to Rolling Stone and said, we did this to make a point. We did this to tell other people who might speak out and cross the president that this could happen to them. They're blatant about it. These revenge investigations are meant to send a warning and to intimidate other people. That's what they're doing with Jerome Powell is they're trying to get more time back on the shot clock and they're trying to scare the next person who takes that job into following whatever Donald Trump tells them to do. Of all the policies, all the bad, crazy policies of the Trump administration, this one has the potential, the potential to send the United States spiraling towards a second or third world country if he really does go and dramatically change the interest rates at the Fed like he wants to.

B (49:42)

God, it's terrible. I mean, and what they're doing, it sounds a lot like what they're doing. To Markelli and to those of us who are retirees and those who are members of Congress. It's all just using government and power from intimidation. But you made this really important point. This is different. It's different because you're screwing with the American dollar, a monetary policy, and that affects our entire economy and the world economy. And that's why this is different. You don't want to mess around with this stuff.

A (50:19)

Stuff? Yeah. And you know what, Amy? There is something people can do about this. I mean, folks feel helpless here. They're like, you know, he's going to take my dollar and he's going to make it worth less. What can I possibly do? The best potential check on this man right now, especially on monetary policy, is members of Congress. And if you don't believe me, if you think that Donald Trump doesn't care, look what just happened on Venezuela. The Senate was on the brink of constraining Donald Trump's ability to do anything else militarily in Venezuela. And Donald Trump said, it doesn't matter. The War Powers act doesn't matter. And then you know what he did? He spent days on a concerted blitz trying to flip Republican votes because he was terrified that the Senate was going to say, you cannot do this. He knows that Congress, which represents the American people, has the ability to box him in. Now, unfortunately, he succeeded in flipping some of those wussy members of Congress into changing their votes. But this is the message that the American people can send to Congress. Don't be wusses when it comes to our pocketbooks. Do not let the President of the United States do this. Be ready to pass laws to keep him from upending our economy. Do not be wusses. Do not be Josh Hawley. Do not cave. Do not run from the fight. That message will land. And that's, by the way, why I think people like Amy McGrath who have a little bit of courage, are considering running for those elected offices.

B (51:50)

Well, it's great. I'm so glad to hear that you still think reaching out to members of Congress matters. You know, I sometimes feel like, especially on the Republican side, that because I have friends who, for various things, whether it's immigration or other things, are like, should I reach out to my congressman? And I'm always like, yeah, of course you can do that. But I, in the back of my mind is like, you know, I know who your, who your member of Congress is. I know who your Senate is. And I don't think he give. I don't think he cares. So it's good to hear that you still think that, you know, this is really important to, to put pressure.

A (52:31)

Oh, I was just gonna say there, there, there are three things where this has made a difference. And I don't know why I'm writing these all on a poster board, but Venezuela, Epstein health care. Those are three examples in the past six weeks of places where regular people pressuring Congress has made a difference. These elected representatives, for whatever reason, are so obsessed with their jobs. They're so in love with their jobs, they're so scared of losing them. And the American people flooding the hotlines about health care in Venezuela and Epstein got Republicans to defect from the White House. Not the majority of Republicans. They don't need a majority. You just need enough Republicans to tip the balance of power. And on each of those issues, we have seen very important voting where Republicans flipped. Why not? Because me and Amy were calling them. You all were calling them. The pressure works. Not always, but it sure as hell works.

B (53:18)

Sometimes it works. Sometimes. We are not out of the woods when it comes to the health care stuff. You know, the premium, the subsidies have gone away. 1.4 million fewer people have enrolled in the Affordable Care act coverage this year. And that's that number is going to actually grow. And that means that, that less people will have health insurance. The people that are still in the system, they have seen their premiums skyrocket. And I'm not just talking doubling. You know, you read reports of premiums doubling. I gotta tell you, Myles, I've talked to a lot of people in what I'm doing right now and people are telling me, you know, 55, 60 year old women who work full time, they had healthcare premiums at $450 a month. Now guess what, it's up to 14, $1500 a month. That is what I'm hearing all over the place. So it's not doubling, it's tripling. And that's going to mean that people can't afford health insurance. And yes, you're right to say that Congress is trying to work on this. They had by the way year to do something and didn't do anything. But, but they supposedly working on some sort of ACA subsidy extension, but asked about the bills that they are working on when President Trump when he was asked about it, said well, he might veto the legislation. Yeah, I mean we're definitely not out of the woods. Even if Congress comes to some kind of agreement here, we still have a President that just doesn't seem to care.

A (54:56)

Doesn't seem to care. We're not out of the woods. But your pressure does work. Because Republicans had desired to have no debate over this whatsoever. They just wanted to capitulate to the White House. The speaker didn't want to bring anything to a vote. And enough Republican defectors have forced a vote on this just like they forced a vote on Epstein. It's not majorities, but that's why it makes a difference. For people to reach out, for people to protest, for people to go out there and say this is a voting issue for me is we got to scare those people into not acting like wusses anymore. So not out of the woods yet. But it matters for folks to stand up.

B (55:35)

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, we always end truth in the barrel with something positive. Okay. We always do these shout outs at the end because there's so much going on in our country. And. And I've. I've kind of always thought, well, I don't want to do a show that's just gloom and doom all the time. So today I wanted to do a shout out to nurses. Why? Because. Because nurses continue to be the most trusted profession in America. They do these polls about trust and about ethics. You know, what do Americans think of different people in different professions? And as you can imagine, where Congress is on that scale, Miles, but nurses are actually at the top. 75% of Americans think that nurses have very high ethics, and I think that's great. So I just want to do a shout out to them. Medical doctors are also very high, when in the low range, of course, is Congress. Car salesmen, that's down pretty low. And telemarketers are at the bottom. But good job to all of those who take care of us.

A (56:43)

Amen. My mother's a nurse. And I'll tell you, you've got a deep and abiding affinity for anyone who works every day to keep you from ending up like this and to keep you instead like this, healthy, alive. You're gonna trust that profession. And I think there's even something more to say about that, Amy, that ties into our politics. Not that I want nurses across the country to suddenly feel the pressure to go get political, but when people in that profession speak out on those chosen occasions, when it really matters, it makes a difference. People listen. Just last night I saw a social media post, maybe you've one, going viral, of a nurse in Minneapolis in a hospital, who has talked about how exhausted and tired she is amidst this chaos and, you know, excoriating the Trump administration for making their community more dangerous and for flooding it with officers who are intimidating and even executing American protesters. That was really impactful. I mean, that's. Of all the posts we've seen flooding our news feeds in, like the past week, that was one of the ones I remember the most is just this exhausted nurse in the er. So thank you to our medical professionals for all they do and for the nurses around the country.

B (58:02)

Yeah. And if you can speak out, speak out, because I really do think I agree with you, Myles. When people who are trusted in the community speak out and say the truth, it really matters. I mean, one of the things that I do when I go across Kentucky is I try to get the voices of Kentuckians. Because it's one thing when somebody who's running for office, whatever you want to call politician, whatever, says something, a lot of people don't believe it. But when members of the community who are firefighters, nurses, people who they know, speak out, I think that really matters. So if you're out there and you're thinking about speaking out, now's the time for your country.

A (58:47)

Amen.

C (58:54)

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