Nicole Malachowski (3:15)

Right.

Amy McGrath (3:15)

And I know this is worth a much longer conversation, but I think it's important to just take a step back and talk about this a little bit.

Nicole Malachowski (3:25)

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, just a horrific tragedy. You know, I have my husband, I have 15 year old twins and I just, my heart is just aching for those parents, you know, the parents whose kids didn't come home, the parents who are sitting by hospital beds right now hoping for the best outcome. You know, just a completely unnecessary, unadulterated, just tragedy. And you know, the question of course, to the American people, to all of us, is how long are we going to accept this as the norm? I think the data tells a story and statistically speaking, this is a uniquely American problem. And we have just gotten so entrenched on this second amendment right thing as opposed to stepping back and looking at the larger picture. Here's what I know what we've been doing isn't working. So at this point we need to do something, something, anything. Even if it's the smallest step in the right direction. The status quo is not working. We have to say enough is enough.

Amy McGrath (4:24)

And most Americans want this. Most Americans want things like better background checks. The debate is real. And I get that, you know, I'm somebody that, and maybe you and I might disagree on this. I was a United States Marine. I believe in, you know, the second Amendment, the ability for people to own firearms. I have them, I use them, I'm trained in them. I'm also a big proponent of weapons safety, gun safety. But this is like, we gotta figure this out as a society.

Nicole Malachowski (5:02)

Absolutely. So I agree with you as a veteran myself, support the second Amendment. Support the right for people to, you know, have the ability to defend themselves in their own homes. I have no issue with that. But there is reasonable gun control, you know, things like background check, things like red flag laws, you know, things like mandatory training, you know, licensing. I think also just, you know, maybe even some of the things as far as like storage, you know, maybe ways that we can invest in safegun type technologies. There are a lot of different options out there. And I don't even, I don't even need for us to bite off the whole apple. Right. I think all. A lot of people are waiting for the perfect plan and package to be put together as a part to we need to start now. And the journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step. And I have to say, interestingly to me, over this last 24 hours, I tried to go to multiple news sources, even some of the more conservative news sources to include Fox News, had people saying enough is enough. I actually noticed a slight difference from some of the folks that are, you know, you would consider far right saying, okay, this is ridiculous. And so this is the kind of conversation we need. This is the kind of, I won't call it momentum because that's not what it is yet, but move in the right direction. Let's start with something. The status quo isn't working.

Amy McGrath (6:17)

We need to start with something. And I'm glad to hear you say that about Fox News. I would not have thought that, but I'm glad to hear it. I feel like the concern I have among many is when things like that, this happen, there's this sometimes a rush to label the perpetrator as, you know, being left wing or right wing. And it's somehow a political thing. I mean, there's, we, we also have a problem with, you know, mental illness in our country. And it's also the massive amounts of guns in our country. And so it's, it's like, I don't know. I, I just don't want to, I'm, I'm tired of hearing, you know, all this is, this is because the, the, the kids were praying or they were Catholic or it's anti, you know, and that it could be lots of factors. Clearly this person was, was, had some serious mental illness.

Nicole Malachowski (7:22)

You know, anybody who's taking a gun to a fellow citizen in hate, especially young children, are cruel. They're depraved. It's something that is absolutely horrific to use the word evil. That's exactly what this is. And it is not a partisan issue. It doesn't matter if the person is left or right or anything in between. All of these people are evil. They are wrong. And we need to take a real look at, like you said, the mental health issues, which should be a nonpartisan issue, you know, in this country. And, you know, some of the counter arguments could be, look, you know, there are countries around the world who also have mental health issues. There are countries around the world where the teenagers are also playing video games. So we have to really take a look at the data and step back and go, what is it? About America. Right. That is so unique. That makes it, I think I was looking at the stats this morning and please, you know, I'm averaging here something like more than 250, like mass shootings defined as I think four or more people shot at a time this year alone. When you look at like the next closest country, I think is Canada with two, I mean, doesn't that make anyone, regardless of where you are on the political spectrum, step back and go, what is it about us and our unique American experience that's making this happen?

Amy McGrath (8:38)

Yeah, we got to have serious leaders in positions of power that are actually going to tackle some of these things.

Nicole Malachowski (8:43)

And we gotta stop with this it's all or nothing attitude. It's all, you know, all of the gun control measures or none of the gun control measures. Can we not get reasonable people from both sides of the aisle to say, say, let's take one step, let's pick one thing, universal background checks, let's do it. Let's take a policy where we give maybe incentives for people to have trigger technology or gun safe technology. Just something that moves us in common.

Amy McGrath (9:09)

Sense stuff is what we're asking for.

Nicole Malachowski (9:13)

Yesterday I was actually in Dallas at a business meeting. It got done early. Long story short, I was sitting in the lobby waiting for my car to pick me up, and there was a security guard who actually had a duffel bag that said, he brought it in with his little backpack. It said, make America great again. So it was clear, you know, where he stood as far as political spectrum. And he brought this up. He's like, did you see the news? Because it happened while I was in the meeting. I said, oh, no. And he says, you know, I am a security forces veteran from the military. This guy was probably 60 years old, a Trump supporter. And he said, you know, enough's enough. We need to start with common sense gun control. And it piqued my interest because I said, really? Then I'd love to hear what you think, you know, as a reasonable gun control looks like. And guess what? He said. Everything you and I just listed off. Reasonable Americans on both sides of the aisle understand that there are steps that can be taken. And again, you know, people will go, well, you can't prove that that's going to change anything. You know what, Again, the status quo is not working. Let's try to switch one, just one lever and see what happens.

Amy McGrath (10:14)

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's common sense at this point. So. But a tragic. We didn't want to start the program or at least go through all these other things without talking about such, such an important piece and tragic incident that happened this week. But there's also a lot of other things going on.

Nicole Malachowski (10:32)

Yeah.

Amy McGrath (10:33)

Donald Trump, our commander in chief, is potentially ordering the military and the national guard to 19 states to, quote, fight crime. And when he was asked about this this past week, he said he could do it because he has unlimited power. So let's start with that. I mean, my, my belief, and I've said this many times, is there's no emergency that warrants these deployments in our cities, and this is a misuse of our military. What, what do you think?

Nicole Malachowski (11:07)

I agree with you 100%. I don't believe there's any emergencies, you know, going on. I don't see mayors and governors, this kind of help, you know, from the federal government. And in fact, if the federal government wants to be a part of helping crime in any of these cities, the right way to do it. Right. Is through reaching out and through collaboration and going, what can we offer you? What can we offer your police services or your first responders to make things, you know, better in your specific area? In that context, I mean, boots on the ground type mayor or governor is going to have a much better feel, you know, for what's going on in their community where the gaps and the resources are. Just to come in and say, you know, I've got it, when you actually don't have a feel for what's going on makes no sense. And it's also just a ridiculously performative thing that's going on and a ridiculous, I think, waste of resources.

Amy McGrath (11:57)

And here's the thing, and this is the common sense piece, and I talk to people on the right, people on the left that, you know, live near me and know me here in Kentucky. The common theme is we should not have our military patrolling our streets like we are some third world country police state that's just not Venezuela American. And if you look at the data, because the show is all about data, you know, is that the crime rates, the number one, number two cities with the highest violent crime rates in the country right now are St. Louis and New Orleans, at least in the past year or last year. And we're not sending, they're not sending forces in there. The states with the highest crime rates are like Louisiana and Arkansas and South Carolina. He's not sending forces. There's. And the thing is, we all want to tackle crime, but you don't do that by sending the United States military that is trained and equipped for war. I Mean, they're walking around in D.C. right now with, like, weapons of war on the Metro.

Nicole Malachowski (12:55)

And I'll be honest, what I worry about is these National Guard troops, right, who are trying to serve their country, trying to wear their nation's uniform, doing, you know, their best to walk a pretty fine line. You know, a lot of these people, they're not trained in law enforcement. Right. They're not trained in riot control, yet we're giving them weapons and told to go in. And isn't that, you know, accepting a certain level of risk or giving them a certain level of risk that I think is completely unnecessary. But, you know, other than like, maybe the waste and resources or maybe the performative nature, you know, by the president and this administration, I often worry about the civil military divide. Right. We talk about this all the time. We've been talking about it for decades.

Amy McGrath (13:36)

Right.

Nicole Malachowski (13:36)

The civil military divide. A lot of it is a lack of understanding, which can build to a lack of trust. Are we not in a way, increasing this lack of trust or at least catalyzing a lack of trust between the American people and our military? That's the last thing we need, the absolute last thing we need in a democracy.

Amy McGrath (13:55)

Well, because the military has a perception among Americans of being an institution that people trust. Whenever you use it in this manner, which is purely performative, purely political, it erodes that trust heavily. And I often think, and it's a question I, I, I keep getting asked, so I'll ask you. Is because we're both retired military officers, but we still have friends who are in, and we still have a pulse of what's going on. How do soldiers and officers feel right now about what the military is being asked to do? How do, how do they, I mean, obviously. Well, let me ask you that first.

Nicole Malachowski (14:40)

Sure. So, like you, I have a lot of friends that are still serving in the military, whether that's active duty, Guard or Reserve, you know, they are a cross section of society. People forget that our military is actually right, right down the middle. I mean, we're representatives on both the left and the right side, which is as it should be. Right. The military should be representative of the country that they are serving. And so I find that people have both views on it, but the one thing that's connecting all of them is they're kind of like, why are we doing this? To what end? And I would rather be training, I would rather be ready, getting ready to deploy against, you know, our nation's true enemies. They almost are feeling at least what I'm Hearing from people from both sides of the aisle is, this is such a waste of my time. And that's a horrible place to be in when you're trying to wear your nation's uniform and you're there to defend the United States. Right. Against, you know, our enemies.

Amy McGrath (15:36)

So, yeah, yeah, Nicole, we have pictures of, there's video of National Guardsmen picking up trash.

Nicole Malachowski (15:42)

Yeah.

Amy McGrath (15:43)

In Washington D.C. so I take a little lighter.

Nicole Malachowski (15:46)

I hear what you're saying on that and I've heard other people complain about it. I might take a little bit lighter view on this one, Amy, because they're standing there and they're not doing much. I don't know about you, but I've done a lot of FOD walks in my day across the deck. I've come in for training days where I too, even as a full bird colonel, was handed a sack to go clean up trash or at least do something while I'm standing there. So I don't think it's unheard of that we've had people doing flood walks or litter checks. You know, we used to do them across the base all the time. But to your point, is this really what the federal government should design?

Amy McGrath (16:19)

It's a, it's a very expensive deployment to pick up trash.

Nicole Malachowski (16:23)

I agree.

Amy McGrath (16:24)

And here's, here's a bigger, the bigger take from my perspective is that the men and women who serve in uniform, they know, they want to know that when they're asked to go deploy, when they're asked to make sacrifices, when they're asked to go away from their family, their loved ones maybe endure some hardship, maybe some physical hardship, you know, especially if they're deployed to like a combat zone, I mean, physical or psychological wounds or perhaps death or something like that, they want to know that their sacrifice is worth it. So these folks are away from their families, they're away from training. They're also away from their job jobs because many of them are part time warriors. And I, I keep thinking, is this charade worth it? Is it worthy of that? And that, that also I feel like is going to erode a lot of the trust that the military has in its leadership as well.

Nicole Malachowski (17:21)

This is like Clous 101, right? Like, you have to know what the end state of getting into this, you know, a war, into a deployment is. I have yet to hear this administration articulate what the final end state looks like.

Amy McGrath (17:34)

What does it, what does it mean.

Nicole Malachowski (17:35)

To come in and control and help crime? What does it mean to clean up homeless encampments? What are the objective kind of measurements and tools we're using to analyze this strategically. Because is this something that's going to go on and on and on forever or is it just going to fade with the next news cycle? Right. They're at Union Station now, they're not at Union Station. And nobody knows what's going on. If it's confusing to the American public, I guarantee it's confusing to those National Guards members who, you know, are out there trying to do the right thing.

Amy McGrath (18:04)

And I'm worried about this happening in other cities. Him sending the, the Guard into Baltimore, into Chicago. Here's the thing. You want to tackle crime. I would love to tackle crime, but you need better policing. Police departments need to be funded. You know, I'm not somebody that, that, that doesn't believe in law enforcement. I certainly do agree police departments across the country are chronically underfunded and law enforcement does matter. I mean, we're always going to need a way to hold criminals accountable. But other things matter in, in, in reducing crime, like mental health care, like, you know, better technology, like license plate readers and that sort of thing. And so my feeling on this is we know it's performative because it's only in blue cities. We, we've already looked at the data that they're not sending anything into, you know, the, the red area that have higher crime rates. We also know that the president pardoned 1500 convicted criminals. So this idea that these guys as Republicans and the President are so tough on crime is complete BS in my opinion.

Nicole Malachowski (19:12)

And they release criminals that actually assaulted police officers.

Amy McGrath (19:15)

Totally.

Nicole Malachowski (19:16)

I mean, to me, the highest order of. You don't do that. Right? I mean, any reasonable person knows that. And they were convicted by a jury of their peers or pleaded guilty. And so I'm with you.

Amy McGrath (19:27)

And he's pardoned fraudsters and tax cheats and corrupt politicians. He's pardoned white collar criminals who have given money to his political campaigns and bought his bitcoins. I mean, let's be real. They're not serious about. This is, this is performative and everybody knows it. And I just feel like, you know, and we also have veterans in D.C. who are staging a sit in and, you know, protesting this right now.

Nicole Malachowski (19:55)

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think that they're trying to stand up for their brothers and sisters who are there with the trash bags and uniform walking around going, what is it exactly I'm supposed to be doing here when I could be home with my family? I could be home training, I could be home improving my readiness I could be home, you know, with my day job and, you know, I'm watching, you know, Governor Westmore, you know, he's flat out inviting him, come, come talk to me. I'll tell you exactly what Maryland needs. I'll tell you exactly what Baltimore needs. I mean, there is a for the federal government to collaborate in a productive way, even in a tailored way to each state and to these larger cities. Yet we're choosing not to do that as an administration. And I don't get that.

Amy McGrath (20:32)

Yeah, it's wrong. Well, look, Donald Trump is showing us in real time what misusing the military really looks like. But his secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth, is no slouch in that department, in my opinion. And that's as evidenced by another baseless high level firings. There's a lot of going on just in the past couple weeks. We know that Pete Hegseth and Donald Trump have fired before just the last couple weeks, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the chief of Naval Operations, the commandant of the Coast Guard, Air Force chief of staff, vice chief of staff, and now, oh, and also the head of the National Security Administration. Now they fired the acting head of the National Security Administration and the top lawyer at the National Security Administration and the head of the Defense Intelligence Agency. And there's a backstory for both of those. But I want to get your take just off the bat more broadly on all of these firings. It's unprecedented. And why is it like in. Well, I'll get your take, but I think it's bad.

Nicole Malachowski (21:45)

So the word you use is unprecedented. And that is, of course, spot on. I will tell you, as these firings have increased over time, I believe my thinking on this has, because initially, and having been someone I've worked in the White House three times under both political parties under multiple administrations. And so, you know, I feel like I come at this with a, at least an experienced perspective. You do, at the end of the day, serve at the pleasure of the president. Right. And I do believe that when a new secretary of defense, you know, comes in that, you know, that they have a right to maybe make, you know, a few changes. There is precedent for that in the past. Right. Bringing in maybe their own personal exec, their own chief of staff, you know, maybe nudging along a chief of staff or something like that. But to see the high levels and the quantity unprecedented by tenfold, I mean, there's nothing even close. And so there's this balance between you serve at the pleasure of the President, but also where's the transparency. I have yet to see any explanation, even a top level, just bullet point explanation of why I chose to relieve the superintendent of the Naval Academy or why after only two years, the chief of staff of the Air Force is leaving out of nowhere. That was just announced. So I think more people need to kind of demand answers. I think that when you're looking at this quantity of high level officers, these are people who've served 30 plus years. I mean, we're literally just removing 30 years of experience and credibility with no explanation. I am disappointed to see our representatives on both sides of the aisles in Congress not challenging the administration on this.

Amy McGrath (23:25)

Well, so we have, we can pull the string on a couple of the more recent ones. You're right to say, you know, we don't know specifically because they haven't come out and say why, but we sort of know why. So with the Defense Intelligence Agency, that is the, the head intelligence agency of the Department of the military, of the Department of Defense. Okay. And recently after the, the Air Force bombed Iran, the president came out and said that we obliterated that mission, obliterated the Iranian IR nuclear program. Okay. Well then the Defense Intelligence Agency came out with a report that said, you know, we can't really be sure. We think we got a lot of it, but we can't be sure because of, you know, X, Y and Z. And therefore that head of the Defense Intelligence Agency was fired. Okay. And then the acting National Security Agency director was trying to protect the top, his top scientists from losing his security clearance, which is basically like being fired. It would be being fired at that level. And this scientist was the government's leading expert on AI. But the problem was so super qualified guy, I mean like the top scientist in the entire Department of Defense. But the problem was that he was a part of an intelligence report back in 2016 that said that Russia meddled in the 2016 election, which it did.

Nicole Malachowski (24:59)

Right.

Amy McGrath (25:00)

And so when his report didn't fit, years later, doesn't fit the narrative of Tulsi Gabbard and Donald Trump. They are fired, they're out. And so the NSA director, the National Security Agency director, the general was fired because he was trying to protect that guy from losing his security clearance. And to me, I say all this to say this. The reason this is dangerous is that in the military and in the intelligence community, you have to be able to speak the truth to the leaders.

Nicole Malachowski (25:38)

Absolutely.

Amy McGrath (25:38)

The truth to power. And if you can't speak the truth to power, if you're afraid, you're Going to get fired by giving them your best military advice, your best intelligence analysis.

Nicole Malachowski (25:50)

Right. You, where are we? Well, and, and that's exactly the danger is spot on. Right. There's part of me as I'm watching all these firings, you know, with the, the CDC director. Right. I think just yesterday to look at a different department. You know, part of me is hopeful that some of these people are just like, you know what? I'm not going to do what you're telling me to do. I'm not going to lie to the American people. I'm not going to do something that goes against science. I'm not going to do something that, you know is unethical, you know, fire me. I'm out. Maybe they're, maybe they are speaking truth with power and, you know, they're getting pummeled. So part of me is like, you know, is that good that people are finally like, look, I'm gonna fall on my sword over this. I'm gonna, I'm gonna get fired because I'm, I'm not gonna do what you want to do. The danger is they then get replaced by people who are hand selected for very probably particular reasons, or now it's even maybe, maybe they're being replaced with qualified people. But now that lack of trust. Right. Exists. And now we're going to question everything that's being put in, you know, to replace in these firings. Yeah.

Amy McGrath (26:50)

I mean, you just mentioned the cdc, and that just happened this week. The four of the, of the top CDC leaders are quitting. Trump fired the CDC director. She refused to go, and then he made sure that she was fired. Her name was Susan Maner and she's only been on the job for a month.

Nicole Malachowski (27:10)

And she, she appointee. Yeah.

Amy McGrath (27:14)

And she and these CDC leaders basically refused to, quote, rubber stamp unscientific reckless directives. I mean, that's, that's what they said. And then one of them was the national center for Immunization Diseases or something like that. His name was Dimitri Desalius or something. And he wrote an email that was really interesting. And he basically said, you know, I'm not able to serve in this role any longer because of the ongoing weaponization of public health.

Nicole Malachowski (27:47)

I recommend everyone watching and listening to this podcast go read that email. Because I read the exact same thing. And if it doesn't kind of hit you or shock you or make you feel uneasy, I don't know how to help you. I mean, this is somebody with decades of experience as you know, and maybe some of your listeners. I am very big as a patient advocate in the Lyme disease and infectious diseases spaces. And even Dr. Jernigan, who's at the head of that, who, you know, we've been looking to and following for decades, was one of the guys who resigned. And remember, Secretary Kennedy has been very vocal about the fact that in September I'm going to, I'm going to solve the mystery of autism. And I can't help but wonder if whatever he's preparing to announce is directly related to these resignations.

Amy McGrath (28:32)

Well, on a side note, and because we just got into the CDC that the federal government would only approve the new Covid vaccines if they limited who could receive them. So you have to be senior citizen or young adults or children with, like, underlying health conditions. I mean, these people are not, they're not experts. They're not doctors. The experts and the doctors that are there are quitting because they see the danger to this. Places like the cdc, the military, you know, they're being completely politicized right now. And it's, it's, it's going to cause, I think, some deaths in our country.

Nicole Malachowski (29:14)

I think it is definitely dangerous. I think it's risky. I think it is this lack of accountability. Right. Where did the checks and balances go? I keep watching all of this and just screaming, where are our elected representatives, Republicans and Democrats alike? I don't see anybody pushing back in any kind of effective way on any of these things. And that concerns me deeply. Right. Because our elected representatives are really our voice. That is we the people. That's our, you know, our way to talk to the federal government in a meaningful way. And they're not sticking up for us.

Amy McGrath (29:50)

Well, I have this idea that there are some agencies where the age of Trump has made us. It has so polarized these agencies and essentially made them ineffective. CDC is one of them. FEMA is another one where the American people don't trust the agency itself based on who is in the White House. And so my feeling is that we need to take those agencies and make them independent, like the Fed, like the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the Nuclear Regulatory Board. I mean, that is like the gold standard of nuclear regulation in world. And it's that way for a reason, because it's independent. You know, you don't mess around with nuclear power. Right. And, and, and so, and safety. And I feel like we, we, we need to do the same thing for some of these other organizations.

Nicole Malachowski (30:50)

Yeah, I haven't considered that something certainly to think about. And even if that is like, the right way to go or the right thing to look into. Where are the courageous people in Congress who are willing to say, hey, maybe we should stand up a committee to look into something like this? There's just, I don't know, is it, is it fear? Is it a lack of courage? Is it just protecting, you know, my position? Is it a combination of the above? I don't.

Amy McGrath (31:13)

Well, the first thing it needs to do is we need an impeach RFK Jr. But, you know, I'll just say that right now. All right, Much like there is no need for the military to police our cities, we likely do not need an executive order making flag burning something that we should prosecute. But mostly, there's not a whole heck of a lot of flag burning going on. But this week, Trump put out an executive order on flag burning. Your thoughts?

Nicole Malachowski (31:45)

So, you know, here's the thing. The flag burning thing's already been adjudicated by the Supreme Court. I believe this is another. It's a very big visual when it put it across the news, any news station, right? You've got people stomping on a burning flag, people usually yelling and protesting. So it makes for this very big clickbait kind of thing. And now we're going to turn this into a national issue. I don't know. It's already been adjudicated by the Supreme Court. Don't we have bigger problems to be dealing with? Don't we? Does my president not have bigger things going on in the world than to deal with this? And if you actually read the executive order, right, the words were actually parsed to pretty, pretty, pretty nicely. It said something along the lines, should the flag burning run afoul of. So what they're going to try to do is go, oh, you're disrupting traffic, or, oh, you're breaking a noise ordinance. So I, I read it. As you know, it's not necessarily the flag burning itself because legally, I don't think they have a leg to stand on. It's going to be the context within which that flag is being burned that we're going to prosecute. That's the way I read it. But of course, when Trump announces it, makes his big television thing and does his social media, it's, we're going to send you to prison for a year for flag burning. Well, either way, this has already been adjudicated. Either way, this is a waste of time and resources, and I want my president working on bigger, more.

Amy McGrath (33:04)

That's a great point. You know, my feeling on this issue has always been, look, I'm Somebody that stands for the national anthem. I'm somebody that's never. Is always going to revere the flag. It is, like, ingrained in me. I mean, you went to an academy. I went to academy. This is like, this is, this is our blood. It's in our blood, okay? That said, the United States of America, you know, veterans like you and me and those who gave their lives for this country in wars and previous generations, you know, they. They fought for freedom. They fought for the. The freedom to. To have government not tell you what you can and can't do and tell you what you can and can't say. I've been in countries where the government tells you, you can't say anything bad about me. You can't put that picture up. You can't put that. You can't do that. And that's not America. And so veterans get that. Like, we get it. We reserve. We revere the flag. And here's the other thing that's very interesting to me about this whole thing, especially with Donald Trump, the guy who, like, hugs the flag, right? A lot of people, when I drive by the, like, mega tents, you know, when you're out and about during election season and you see all these flags that like Donald Trump's face on them and all kinds of other stuff, writing and stuff like that. Sharpie pens and things that's defacing the flag.

Nicole Malachowski (34:41)

It is, and it's against the.

Amy McGrath (34:43)

Yeah, and, and so, but, but that seems to be perfectly okay. And for these guys, you know, I, I can't stand it. I don't like. I, I'll just be honest with you. I don't like flags to be defaced at all. I don't like them with a red stripe. I don't like them with any color, other stripe. If you want to celebrate who you are, a state or, you know something, you. You create your own flag and do it separately. Don't take the American flag and put something else on it. That's just me.

Nicole Malachowski (35:15)

Yeah. No, the American flag, I agree with you as a veteran, is absolutely, you know, sacred. And I try to teach, you know, my kids that. But to your point, you know, it's about defending freedom. And again, this is, I think just a zo is completely symbolic. It's a waste of, you know, everybody's time. And I think it's super interesting, though, you know, the Republicans, I used to know them as the party of small government, right? Keep. Keep the government out of your business. Keep. Keep the government small. Keep them out of this. And all we're doing is growing federal government, you know, interventions everywhere.

Amy McGrath (35:49)

Don't tread on me.

Nicole Malachowski (35:51)

Yeah. From flag burning to sending the National Guard in. It's like what happened to the old Republican Party. Or at least they're talking out of both sides of their mouth. So even sometimes I'm confused. I'm like, do they even know what they're talking about? Some of these people who voted for him, like step back and analyze critically the actions versus what the party's platform has always been.

Amy McGrath (36:14)

Yeah, I know. I mean they've changed a lot now. I'm afraid it's a cult. That is a big kiss ass for one person.

Nicole Malachowski (36:21)

But I have to hold out hope that, and maybe this is a defense mechanism. Maybe. But you know that there are, there are good. The old school Republicans. Right. The people you could disagree with policy wise. But we're still dignified and civil gentlemen and gentlewomen. Where are they? You know, we need them because I.

Amy McGrath (36:43)

Think many of them are silent right now.

Nicole Malachowski (36:45)

Yeah, I don't believe MAGA represents the Republican Party and I feel like it's kind of just been a little bit hijacked. But, you know, where are our moderate Republicans and what can we do to collaborate?

Amy McGrath (36:56)

Yeah, well, I mean that's, that's going to be the, the, the goal here, at least from my perspective. Going into the midterms, we need to gather everybody who has common sense. So. Well, now it's time for our show in the middle where we take a step back and drink a little bit of bourbon and whiskey. So normally I bring, you know, a bottle from here in Kentucky and talk about that, but my husband is a corporate pilot and he flies all over the country and so whenever he goes to a place, he brings me back something. And his latest trip took him to northern Michigan where he bought or went to this distillery called the Grand Traverse Distillery and he brought back this bourbon, Michigan straight bourbon whiskey. And I don't know, sadly, I'm usually prepared for these, for these shows, but I don't really know the background on this distillery very much except to say that it's quite good. I really like it, it's smooth and so that's what I'm drinking.

Nicole Malachowski (38:03)

Well, that's fantastic. That sounds delicious. And I'll be honest, you just educated me. I never put whiskey in Michigan together, but clearly I need to get myself up there. Well, okay, so I was stationed twice at RAF Lake and Heath, which is just outside of Cambridge, England. The two greatest, you know, just assignments of my life because there is nothing Cooler than flying an F15 Strike Eagle at 500ft, 500 miles an hour up Loch Ness, right over Scotland. Over Scotland, through the Highlands. I mean, like, literally, you know, that was my job, and I got paid to do it. Thank you, taxpayers of America. Right. What a wonderful thing. But obviously, Scotch whiskey up in Scotland's a big deal. So we used to always go on the Scotch whiskey trail and go tasting. And my favorite distillery, hands down, is always going to be the Balveny. So Balvenie is this is a single barrel sherry cask. It's 15 years, so it's actually not the most expensive, totally affordable. But I think what makes it tasty is the sherry cask. It's kind of got a little bit of that sweetness without being, like, overly sweet on it.

Amy McGrath (39:02)

So I'll have to check that out.

Nicole Malachowski (39:04)

Cheers to you. Yeah, cheers to America and reasonable common sense Americans.

Amy McGrath (39:10)

Totally. I mean, that's what. When we started this show, I wanted to be fun because there's so much going on in our world that's not fun right now. And so when Denver and I started, we're like, we gotta do something fun. We gotta just relax. And this has been a great way to kind of go into the next segment, which is called Quick Shots, where we sort of throw each other some things and just get a quick take on what. On some of these issues. So I wanted to do that with you. The first one is that this past week, I think the President and Pete Hegseth want to rename the Department of Defense the Department of War. Thoughts on that?

Nicole Malachowski (39:59)

Ridiculous. A waste of time, a waste of resources, the millions of dollars that will be spent changing signs and regulations. And all of that is just from a pragmatic. Just makes no sense. But here's the thing. Words matter. Symbols matter. When we say Department of War, that is a very offensive way to look at things. You know, the United States of America absolutely needs offensive capabilities. It needs defensive capabilities. But come on. I mean, that. That to me is just. It's ridiculous. The Department of Defense is just fine. It's been working for us for, I think, what, since 19, well, over 50 years, I think. And I don't see any good. Again, this is something that I. I get frustrated a little bit with Secretary Hegseth because a lot of what he's doing seems to have nothing to do with readiness, nothing to do with lethality. And so again, I hear one thing, but then the actions aren't matching the words. So again, I ask why.

Amy McGrath (40:52)

Yeah, well, so I have a little Bit. It's not different take, but that's similar. I think it's. I think it's dumb, but I think it's also dumb for the reason of. It's not what America should stand for. It's not what our military should stand for. And here's why. I had a. I had an instructor back at the Naval Academy. I graduated in 1997, and one of my favorite instructors there was a Marine Corps major who had been everywhere. I mean, he was one of these, like, Special Forces, Marine Corps type of guys who had, like, done and seen lots of things. And he told me once, he said, take out a dollar bill. And he said, so I did. I took out a dollar bill. He said, turn it around. He said, see, See that picture? I don't have one here to show you, but see that picture of the eagle on the back? He said, what's the eagle holding in its claws? And I said, well, it's one claws and olive branch and the other claw are the arrows.

Nicole Malachowski (41:56)

Yeah.

Amy McGrath (41:56)

And he said, that's America. Where.

Nicole Malachowski (41:59)

Where.

Amy McGrath (42:00)

Where is that eagle looking? And it's looking to the olive branch, and it's got the. It's got the arrows in the. In the back if we need them, but we're not looking that way.

Nicole Malachowski (42:13)

You articulate much better what I was trying to say. This idea that words matter and how we are projecting ourselves to the rest of the world. Department of War is very unnecessarily aggressive. Right. It's not who we want to be. We've been living decades at war. We've lost thousands of Americans. We've been entrenched, you know, in places. And I. That doesn't. And that also goes against what they campaigned on. Right. This administration.

Amy McGrath (42:40)

Right.

Nicole Malachowski (42:41)

Right. We're. I'm the president of peace. Right. No more wars under us. And yet Department of War. It makes no sense.

Amy McGrath (42:48)

Yeah. Well, it's part of Pete Hegseth being got to be, rah, rah, Pete. So. All right, so, J.D. vance this past week said that Russia has made significant concessions to Ukraine. Really?

Nicole Malachowski (43:02)

Yeah. I haven't seen any examples or factual examples or data that supports that of you. No. Okay. No. Yeah. And he's just lying.

Amy McGrath (43:14)

He's lying to the American people when he says that. I just think. I just think they're flat out lying.

Nicole Malachowski (43:20)

I think that because there are an unfortunate number of our American citizens alongside of us that don't want to look at the data or do the research for themselves. And, you know, I don't know why this just came into my head. So I'm going to say it, you know, like, over these last few months, watching what's going on, interacting with people I love, people I respect, people who, you know, voted for Trump and are still supporting this administration. I get in these conversations with them, you know, like, why? And it has hit me for the first time in my life, and I'm sure you're way smarter than me, and I've already had this revelation, but education is a national security issue. Education is a national security imperative. I am coming across too many people who literally don't have the capability to critically think, who literally haven't been taught how to do proper research or where to go, you know, for credible sources or how to look at data and read statistics the right way. And I didn't realize until recently how big of a problem that really was. And I hope that that comes off well. Like, you're not smart. I don't mean it like that. I just mean we have somehow lost. We've lost the edge, Mav. You know what I mean?

Amy McGrath (44:37)

That's a good one. No, I feel like you're exactly right. And that actually leads me into my next one, because this is a story that not too many people are talking about, but I think it's really important. And it goes to show the point of these leaders say one thing, and we have a population that just, like, believes them. And if you really pull a string on it, it's total bullshit. So let me tell you the backstory of this. There was a CNN story that, that broke just, just this week that talked about the fact that the administration is stopping all of these green energy projects, okay? Especially the wind power projects. So Donald Trump really hates wind power. Okay? There's a couple of states up in the Northeast, Connecticut and Rhode island that have these. First of all, they have very high prices for electricity. And during the last administration, there was a lot of investment in wind power for those states. One of the projects is 80% complete. It's in Rhode Island. And the CNN story talks about the fact that they are getting rid of this project and they're laying off hundreds of these tradesmen, all of these jobs, and the project is like 80% done in order to bring down the cost of energy there. And so CNN broke the story when the White House was out. Asked about the story, they referred CNN to the Department of Interior. For some reason, they said, you're going to have to listen to go, go talk to the Department of Interior because they know the reason why this is being right. And so when they went to the Secretary of the Interior, he was interviewed because they said it was a national security concern and the Department of Interior knows why. And I'm going to have Doug play the clip for you and for everybody listening to of when Caitlin Collins of the CNN of CNN asked the Secretary of Interior, his name is Doug Borgum, about this project and listen to his answer. And I want to get your, take your national security experience, take on his answer. Doug, can you play that?

Doug Borgum (46:48)

I mean, Sean just today publicly shared, you know, during the cabinet meeting that there had been a report that had been buried about the fact that a wind, wind farm, if it's too close to a, a railroad or a highway, could affect the electronics.

Nicole Malachowski (46:59)

But the Pentagon reviewed this project in 2023 and they found that there were negligible national security impacts. So what are the specific ones that this administration is so concerned about that you would stop it if it's 80% of the way done?

Doug Borgum (47:11)

Well, I think the, in particular there's concerns about radar relative to under undersea and that doesn't have to be a large Russian sub, but undersea drones, the new technology, I mean the war in Ukraine is shown that swarm attacks by drones, if you're going to launch one into our most populous part of our country, the Pacific Northwest, the way a bad, you know, people with, you know, bad ulterior motives to the United States would, would launch a swarm drone attack through a wind farm. The radar gets very distorted around detecting if you're trying to have, you know, detect and avoid if you've got drones coming.

Nicole Malachowski (47:45)

So you're concerned. So there's news about potential tax on it and that's why you're stopping.

Doug Borgum (47:50)

Well, I think it's a whole range of things that need to be reviewed that I don't think were, I mean, sustainability during high speed storms, the national defense issues relative to radar. Pete Higseth has got concerns. Bobby Kennedy expressed, you know, 10 minutes of concern today during our cabinet meeting.

Amy McGrath (48:05)

So you heard that whole clip. Wow. He had a lot of interesting things about that. But I want to ask you, Nicole, about the national security piece of that. Like what is he talking about?

Nicole Malachowski (48:17)

I have no idea. I consider energy independence to be a national security issue. And I think finding ways that we can become independent by investing in these alternative sources is probably a darn good idea, right? I mean we know the Northeast I think uses like a larger proportion of electricity and this is a great way for them, you know, to have more accessible, more electricity at lower prices. The fact that there's going to be probably hundreds of billions and I'm sorry, that's the first time I've seen the clip. So I haven't fully researched it, but I reckon there's hundreds of millions of dollars already invested. There's going to be job losses. But let's get to the, you know, swarm technology stuff. When I was stationed at Lake and Heath, I would fly my F15E strikey with my radar all over the UK which has wind farms all around it. In fact, I may have flown by the one that Trump hates so much, that's over by his golf course in Scotland. I don't know. Remember, the President has only stated that he doesn't like the way they look and it lowers real estate property values. So I don't know how that plays into national security. But I know that when I use a radar, wind farms can indeed create some kind of ground clutter, which can make it difficult to find low altitude targets that might be, you know, flying through it. But the fact of the matter is, is that we know they're there. Wind farms aren't moving. We can create, I think, mitigative measures around them. But moreover, I also served at Seymour Johnson Air Force Base several times in North Carolina, and I was on a planning committee to look at the negative impacts of a solar farm that was going in and how that might impact the base and stuff. All this to say this was fully reviewed and vetted, I guarantee you, by the Department of Defense, probably in coordination with the FAA in order to get this approval. And so to Caitlin Collins, great question. This was already improved. So what beyond this hasn't the Department of Defense already looked at? Not to mention, you know, we are advancing technologies in our radars every single day, you know, so I, well, you.

Amy McGrath (50:13)

You are a lot nicer than I am. I think Doug Borgam just pulled something out of his rear end right there and he knows nothing. I mean, he's talking about undersea drones in wind farm. Is having, having a, a problem with defending against. I mean, he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. And it's just, it is, is crazy. It is lunacy. And, but to the bigger point, and you touched on this, Nicole, China is way outpacing us in renewable energy. And I don't care what shit this is. Renewable energy is part of the future. I mean, it is, is a big part of future. Nuclear power may be a big part of the future too, but our government is pushing right now fossil fuels. You hear this drill everywhere, okay? Great. Less we. But they're tanking all these renewable projects. And the problem is China is the big winner here because they are surging ahead of us in R and D thanks to Donald Trump. They're surging ahead of us. Right. Why is, why is renewable part a.

Nicole Malachowski (51:20)

Big part of the future?

Amy McGrath (51:22)

It's cheaper. And once we figure out the technology, the high tech part of wind and solar power, it will be more affordable in the long run. And that's if we're not on top of that. Guess who's gonna run that entire industry? China.

Nicole Malachowski (51:38)

Absolutely. And that developing countries, the national security issue.

Amy McGrath (51:42)

The developing countries already get it. They're already being won over by China. And so to me, I feel like I don't want China to be the world leader in energy.

Nicole Malachowski (51:51)

I want us to be the world.

Amy McGrath (51:52)

Leader in us to be.

Nicole Malachowski (51:53)

Yeah.

Amy McGrath (51:54)

So when Trump talks about energy dominance, okay, he's talking about energy dominance here in 2025. What's it going to be in 2035? Because he's making us go in the wrong direction.

Nicole Malachowski (52:03)

I'm not worried about a storm attack coming from underwater off the coast of Rhode island when the Department of Defense and the FAA already looked at, mitigated all of that prior to the project being reviewed. I'm concerned about energy independence. Right. Being the actual national security issue here. Not to mention just the loss of all that money invested, the loss of the jobs, you know, that we're going to be to maintain those. I don't even know. There's probably hundreds, if not thousands of people that were going to be dependent on this. I'd be, I'd be very disappointed at this point, for sure.

Amy McGrath (52:35)

Furious. And the lot and the loss of like we invested, taxpayers invested in these projects and now you're just, it's just total fraud, waste and abuse to, to cancel him at this point. Here's the thing about Doug Borgum that the Interior Secretary, he was super for renewable energy when he was the governor of North Dakota. And now all of a sudden he's a Trump sycophant.

Nicole Malachowski (52:57)

Yeah.

Amy McGrath (52:57)

So Trump doesn't like the what. What they look like, so he's against it. I mean, again, we have people in power that just have no backbone.

Nicole Malachowski (53:05)

It is interesting to see, you know, the Department of Interior weighing in on, you know, a Department of Defense issues. I'm like just, you might just want to stay in your lane. But, you know, I wasn't familiar with his positions, you know, on this ahead of time, but I was delighted to hear you say and mention nuclear Energy. Because I actually think there is almost unlimited potential there as far as cheap, effective, easily deployable, even globally, to raise up communities around the world that. That need it. And I think it's been a real missed opportunity for the United States. Maybe we can talk about that sometime in the future.

Amy McGrath (53:41)

We do need to talk about. It is a very important. The issue with regards to power. You also have some challenges with regards to the ability to. To weaponize at a certain level. So we have to keep. That's why we need diplomats. That's why we need understanding of this technology and all that. But yeah, nuclear is. Is a big piece of the future, so. Well, good. So now we're gonna. We're gonna close out our show, which has been awesome, by the way, with a cheers. This is what we do every time. We never want to leave on kind of a serious note. We always want to talk about good things that have happened. And I have two that I want to bring up. The first one is that in Iowa, there was a special election. It was a super Republican held seat. The Republicans have the super majority there. You know, I'm a Democrat and I am really pleased to see that the seat was won by a Democrat breaking the super majority there. It was won by 11 points in a super red district. And I just think that that's awesome. The. The Democrats name is Caitlin Dre. She pulled off the victory and so cheers to her.

Nicole Malachowski (54:54)

Cheers to Caitlin.

Amy McGrath (54:56)

Yeah, well, and the second one is Taylor Swift's getting married.

Nicole Malachowski (55:04)

Dang it. You took one of mine. I was like, you know, if Taylor Swift can get a ring this year, so can the Buffalo Bills. Go Josh Allen. That's right.

Amy McGrath (55:14)

You're a Bills fan, huh?

Nicole Malachowski (55:16)

I married a man from Buffalo. We were married 24 years, so I married into the Bills fandom.

Amy McGrath (55:22)

You're not a Broncos fan being in Colorado?

Nicole Malachowski (55:24)

No. No.

Amy McGrath (55:25)

Okay.

Nicole Malachowski (55:26)

Yeah, actually, I think next season the Bills are coming to Broncos stadium and I'll be walking in red, white and blue.

Amy McGrath (55:33)

Okay, very good. That, that's. That's bold right there. I. I'm actually a Bengals fan. Cincinnati Bengals. Cincinnati is just north of where I live in Kentucky. And I'm sort of a lifelong Bengals fan, which somewhat makes me kind of lifelong disappointment to some degree. But. But I, I always have hope every year. And I. And I'm really, I'm happy for Taylor Swift. You know, I mean, marriage is, it's. It's. It's fun, it's challenging. And, you know, the most important decision.

Nicole Malachowski (56:03)

You'Ll make is the person you to share your life with.

Amy McGrath (56:06)

Yeah, but she's a certainly a powerful woman and she's, you know, chosen Jason, Jason Kelsey from the Chiefs. But that's really cool. So cheers to her.

Nicole Malachowski (56:16)

Absolutely. Cheers.

Amy McGrath (56:18)

And to marriage, happiness.

Nicole Malachowski (56:19)

There you go. All right, well, I got two. And maybe I wasn't thinking as worldly as you. I was thinking a little bit more like things that kind of have happened to me this week very recently. Actually, last Thursday, I was asked to drive an hour and a half south of my home to go into a very small community in the mountains of Colorado to talk to the local civil Air patrol cadets. And you know, I walked in and they're in this old tiny airfield that only Cessnas can land at this old kind of Quonset hut, you know, looking thing. And I walk in and their uniforms are, you know, they're putting them on and they're marching around like a 12 year old and a 13 year old could do. But I ended up, was only supposed to be there like, you know, 30 minutes. I ended up there for two hours just answering the questions of these great young Americans, Some of them that want to serve in the military, some, you know, that don't. But they're all just there trying to support each other. You know, they're building teamwork, they're building leadership. And I was asked some extraordinarily thoughtful questions, even questions that you and I addressed tonight. And I just want to say, like, it gave me a lot of hope and I was very heartened, you know, to talk to these young people in America. As much as we as adults have got going on and need to get it figured out, I think some of these kids are heading in the right direction. And so I want to say cheers to those young.

Amy McGrath (57:37)

Cheers to them. Yes, yes. And you know, that story, it makes me want to work harder to be the leaders that they deserve.

Nicole Malachowski (57:48)

Yeah, absolutely. Right. And don't we want to model the behaviors that we want to see, you know, in our kids? And sometimes we as adults need to absolutely remember that. And you know, the second thing is, and this might sound kind of cheesy, and you know, people always ask, what can I do? Right? What can I do to make this better? What can I do to help people get into these hard conversations and stuff? And so I've been doing my own little midi. Not a protest, my own, I don't know, a little mini advocacy work. I, I ordered a, a whole bunch hundreds of these 99 cent pocket constitutions and decorated nice. And I carry them with me And I. I travel a lot for business, and I always offer it to, like, my driver or the poor person sitting next to me on the plane at the very end, like, I don't get into the conversation. I'm like, hey, you know, I happen to have one of these. Have you read the Constitution lately? And they're like, no, I haven't noticed. I mean, I've handed out probably 100 now, and not a single person has not taken it. So cheers to the people.

Amy McGrath (58:43)

Cheers to that.

Nicole Malachowski (58:44)

To reread the Constitution.

Amy McGrath (58:46)

Amen. We the people.

Nicole Malachowski (58:47)

There we go.

Amy McGrath (58:50)

It's so important because there's so much going on right now where if you just stop and say, well, can't do that Constitution. Yeah, why even talking about that Constitution?

Nicole Malachowski (59:01)

You know, when I asked, when was the last time you read the Constitution of the Declaration of Independence? They're like, usually the answer is, I don't think I ever have. And then the second answer is, you know, usually middle, Middle school or high school civics.

Amy McGrath (59:14)

Yeah, it's true. I mean, look, the Declaration is shorter.

Nicole Malachowski (59:17)

Yeah.

Amy McGrath (59:19)

And so it's easier to get through. The Constitution is rather boring, but it's actually quite short in comparison to many other constitutions around the world. So I encourage everybody to read it, break it out. And also, I mean, the Constitution is the law of the land. The Declaration of Independence is more of a values declaration, but it's not law. Constitution is our law, and that's what you and I swore to defend for over 20 years. So, Nicole, it's been awesome having you on the show as a co host. This has been a great show. We went through a lot of stuff and, you know, I hope that you get a chance to come back on in the, in the coming months when you have the chance, because your voice is incredible. And I just, I'm really thankful you could. You could be a part of this. And for all everybody listening out there, please do follow us on Truth in the Barrel. We're on all the platforms, YouTube, all the social media platforms. Tell your friends and family about this. This is a really important conversations. Thanks, Nicole, for being with us.

Nicole Malachowski (60:21)

Thanks for having me.

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