← Truth in the Barrel
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- [00:01]
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- [00:34]
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- [01:21]
Amy
All right, we've got a great American with us today. To talk through it all, former US Navy commander, head of Veterans for Responsible Leadership, by Bobby Jones. Bobby, welcome to Truth in the Barrel again.
- [01:34]
Bobby Jones
Hey, thank you, Amy. Thank you for having me.
- [01:37]
Amy
Let's get right to it, Bobby, because there's so much to talk about. I want to start out with the Ukraine war. This has been going on for four years. We just had the four year, sadly, anniversary of the Russia invading Ukraine, resulting in the largest armed conflict in Europe since World War II. Huge human and economic costs on both sides. Ukraine has been able to maintain its defense with some Western support. Russia has mobilized its economy, its society, and is still pounding Ukraine every single single day with lethal drone strikes, with bombing, they're targeting infrastructure. And just Last week on February 24, the United States abstained from a UN General assembly resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire in Ukraine on the fourth anniversary. What. What the actual F, Bobby, are we doing here?
- [02:50]
Bobby Jones
Yeah, it is. Well, there's so much to unpack here. Let's start. Let's start with that and work our way backwards. So the United States abstaining from a vote in the United Nations. Right. That is a tactic that is typically used by Russia and China to remove themselves from something that the world not, not, not a continent, not an area the world sees as overwhelmingly popular, but against their interests for whatever reason. For the first time that I can remember in my lifetime, the United States is abstaining on a vote that the world sees as necessary. How could you logically have anything against a ceasefire? Right. Unless. Unless your policy is to proactively carry water for the Russians. Now, Amy, we're old enough to remember we came up in the 80s and stuff like that. This. I don't care what political party you were. The Cold War was won by both Democrats and Republicans having a very hardcore, consistent way of doing business against the Soviet Union and now Russia. Right. And for the first time Since World War II ended, we have a free radical. And let me tell you something, it is caused a lot more death, destruction. And to be completely honest, it's given Putin a platform to remain in power. I don't know if people remember there were times during this war that the Russian people were very upset with him. There was rumblings that his grip on the country was being loosened. And in steps, Donald John Trump, to reassert the fact that the United States will not be an unconditional backer of Ukraine. This is a problem because our foreign policy under this administration has no strategic end game. None. None.
- [04:56]
Amy
Yeah.
- [04:57]
Bobby Jones
It's purely transactional. And so you're watching Zelensky, who people need to remember was basically their country's John Stewart. History has a way. No, seriously, he was a comedian.
- [05:10]
Amy
Yeah.
- [05:11]
Bobby Jones
His history has a way of putting the most unexpected people into hero positions and they stand up. When the invasion happened, I remember like it was yesterday, and Zelensky had one major decision to make, and that was, do I take my family and run or do we stay? And everybody was like, we understand if you run. But the comedian stood on business, as the kids would say, and did the one thing that a comedian does better than anybody else in the world. And people fail to understand this about skill sets. Comedians do very well in communication, and they do very well in highlighting tragedy and turning it into something inspirational. That's what comedians do. And he took those two skill sets in a moment where the entire world was watching and gave that address and said, we ain't going nowhere.
- [06:00]
Libsyn Ads Representative
Yeah.
- [06:01]
Bobby Jones
And to this day, when I feel like I'm, you know, having a bad day or something like that, I go on that. I go on YouTube and I look at that speech, right? And the reason that we're dealing with this now in 2026, despite everything that's happened, despite the impeachment that happened, dealing with Ukraine, and I just got through talking to Alex Vindman who's running for Senate out of Florida. He recently announced. I can tell you it's fundamentally not about foreign policy, but about the personality of leadership. Our leader currently does not have the integrity to understand why Ukraine not leaving Ukraine standing on business is vital not only to the United States, not only to Europe, but to the rest of the world against aggressive, tyrannical, overthrowing. That's what they're trying to do. And I don't understand this. I don't understand how we could. Absent.
- [06:56]
Amy
I think you bring up a really good point initially in that we won the Cold War, and we won it by, you know, sort of in a nonpartisan way. We had both sides of the aisle agreed. We had to contain Russia, we had to contain the Soviet Union. And we did it through multiple Democrat and Republican administrations. And now we have a president that, you know, just goes against everything that was successful in defending Western democracy from the authoritarian threat of Russia and the Soviet Union. He is doing the opposite. And let's not forget, Bobby, that this is a president who said he would end the war in Ukraine on day one when he got into office. Not only are we not helping the Ukrainians right now, we don't even want a ceasefire. That is how much of a hug that we are giving to Vladimir Putin in Russia. And let's be clear. The Russians are losing 40,000, apparently 40,000 casualties a month. They're recruiting, cannot keep up. They have had 1.25 million deaths, Russian deaths in this war, Bobby. That is more than the United States had in all of World War II. You know, the Russians are. This is. This is costing them a lot. Most of Europe right now is trying to help Ukraine. But there are some outliers, right? Hungary is out there kind of gumming things up. When the German leadership and the country of German. Germany want to put together a package for sanctions against Moscow, and they want to put together a package for a loan to keep Ukraine's public finances from collapsing. Hungary's coming in and saying, oh, we're going to veto that. So there are real problems. Boy, I wish we had some real United States leadership here, proactive leadership.
- [09:08]
Bobby Jones
You hit on something that I think is getting completely underreported. The Ukrainians are kicking Russia's ass. They are not only having recruiting problems, they are outsourcing the fight. The North Koreans have been brought in. They have recruiters in Nigeria, of all places, pulling in troops and using them as cannon fodder because there is no overall strategic objective to Putin except not being seen as a loser. The Same thing that Donald Trump thinks about. And so what's happening is you're watching millions of people die. Like you said, greater casualties in the United States in World War II. Right. You're seeing the rest of the world starting to be pulled in that are that Russia has supported in the past. They're calling in those debts and they're paying them with people. And here's the thing. If you ask Russia what does the end state, the desired end state look like for you, they're going to say the complete reabsorption of Ukraine. Right. But they're going to settle on the Donbas and this, that and the other to, to just say to their people internally that this was worth it. Right. And when the United States went to Ukraine and told them that's what it's going to take, and they said, kick rocks, that's when Trump famously was like, you know, I'm done with it. I have nothing to do with it. Da, da, da, da, da. He backed away. They were supposed to have that meeting and then all of a sudden it was canceled. That's why. So we're watching a depleted State Department, by the way, because they fired a lot of the subject matter experts. This is the piece that people are not talking about. We internally do not have the capability or subject matter expertise that we had less than two years ago to address this issue. So now the sheer power of Trump's will is supposed to make everything right. Says the six time bankrupt sit there, you know, can't finish his own businesses, let alone stop a war which is the most deadly we've seen basically since World War II. This is unbelievable.
- [11:07]
Amy
Yeah. And you know, four years of this. And what, you know, what irks me as well, what's not being talked about is Donald Trump and his administration warned Ukraine that they should not be striking targets within Russia that could hurt U.S. economic interests.
- [11:23]
Bobby Jones
Yes.
- [11:24]
Amy
Well, meanwhile, they didn't tell Russia not to strike inside Ukraine because striking inside Ukraine, that's also impacting US Businesses there. I mean, Ukraine is at war for their very survival. And we have a president saying, oh, you know, don't strike inside their country.
- [11:45]
Bobby Jones
Right.
- [11:46]
Amy
You're at war for your very survival. But, you know, I guess he wants all they can do is just shoot down, you know, drones and not go on the offensive. I mean, how stupid is that?
- [11:57]
Bobby Jones
Well, a couple of things. Number one, from a missile defense standpoint, it is much harder to shoot down incoming missiles than to actually shoot missiles at something else. Okay. The amount of capability, the amount of coordination to Knock down incoming salvos is much harder. It's the ultimate physics problem. The fact that we have a president that is basically telling Ukraine to fight with one hand tied behind its back is, is befuddling because long term economic ish, you know, economic issues for the United States, we get more from Ukraine than we do Russia. Especially when you look at how we struck the rare earth mineral deal, which was a huge thing that Trump and people pushed for, where we basically are, are scamming Ukraine because they needed more armament. And Europe saw that and looked at us like, what are y' all doing? Yeah, because of the transactional nature of what's happening. Here's the bottom line. Here's the bottom line. Ukraine will fight to the last person they will. Russia will fight until Putin no longer has power. The question that the United States has to ask themselves on its 250th anniversary, which he, which Trump loves to talk about, is very simple. What do we stand for? We are the preeminent world power. We talk about freedom, we talk about this, that and the other. We have a very clear cut case. Congress recognizes it. You know, we as the people recognize it. But even Marco Rubio recognizes it. I don't know if you saw him when they focused in on him during the State of the Union, he acted like he did not want to be seen by anybody. He was, yeah, yeah, he looked, he looked like he was sucking on a barrel full of lemons when they looked at him. But here's the thing. What does America stand for? Because historians are gonna write about this moment, they're gonna look solely at Donald Trump. And Trump has said in the past he doesn't care, cuz he'll be dead. Fine, whatever, but his kids will be and everybody associated with his name will be. And he's gonna have to answer for this some way or the other.
- [14:04]
Amy
Yeah, 100%. It's. What does America stand for? And also competence in government. I mean, you talked about it as being sort of something that we aren't talking about enough is the schwacking of the State Department and the fact that we don't have competence anymore, certainly at the highest levels. I mean, you know, Marco Rubio aside, whether, you know, he has, has, definitely has some background and experience, but what have they done to the career professionals? You know, right now Russia's funding this war and has been funding this war through oil. They're still exporting tons of oil.
- [14:44]
Bobby Jones
Yes.
- [14:45]
Amy
Now they're exporting more oil than they were before the war. So the sanctions haven't helped much. I don't think that this current administration has the expertise to pull off sanctions globally. And you're seeing that the shift of oil from Russia used to be selling to the eu. Now Europe is not buying that. Who's buying it? China, India, Turkey. They've got this shadow fleet and they're funding the war this way. So we're just. We're not leading anymore. We don't have competent people in office.
- [15:21]
Bobby Jones
But, Amy, this is what happens when you replace professionals with lackeys. What you're seeing is a centralization of executive power, and the spine of it is loyalty, not competency. See, I'm old enough to also remember when we had. In the past, you had people with different political ideas and ideals, but they had the credentials to be in the room. You may have hated Henry Kissinger, but you could not argue his credentials to be in the room. You know, and I can go down list after list. The reality is, when you have Marco Rubio, who has four jobs, got this job, he's a National Archives guy. He's the same. He's head of usaid. What are we doing? It's because they don't trust the career professionals, because they know the career professionals will push back. I interviewed Liz Oyer a couple of days ago, the former United States pardon attorney, and they fired her because she would not give pardons at the beginning of this year to the people that they wanted to. To include Mel Gibson, of all people. I guess that was the straw that brought the camel's back. Who do they have running it now? Who knows? But pardons are for sale, right? So when you bring it back to Russia and this, you have to have a coordination between the Department of State Department, the Department of Defense, the Trade Commission, all of these things to enforce these sanctions. And there are no professionals that understand those apparatuses. And that's why you have a shadow fleet. That's why they're still able to fund these missions. That is why we have no unified joint statement on what our strategy is to deal with Russia. Because when you hire clowns, you have a circus.
- [17:07]
Amy
Yeah, 100%.
- [17:08]
Bobby Jones
And we are making Ringland and Baltimore and Bailey look like freaking amateur hour. It's unbelievable that this is happening at the international level and we are responsible for it.
- [17:18]
Amy
We have elected people who are not inserting people with competence in high positions and have fired or disregarded the career experts that frankly did their jobs behind the scenes for so many years. And let's be real, their jobs were to keep America safe. They are national security jobs. And right now, we don't have the right people in there. I want to shift a little bit, Bobby, because this week we listened to, many of us listened to the State of the Union annual speech by the President of the United States to Congress and to the American people. And this week, President Trump gave this State of the Union address. It took one hour and 47 minutes, the longest State of the Union address. It was really more of a entertainment show than a policy address at all. But we did a whole livestream here on Truth in the Barrel with a panel of everyday Kentuckians talking about our reactions. So everybody, you know, right after the State of the Union address, so everyone listening should go check that out because that was really cool. But there are a few things that really jumped out at me, Bobby, that I'll share, and I want to get your take. So I'll start out with what? When did you watch the State of the Union?
- [18:48]
Bobby Jones
The entire thing.
- [18:49]
Amy
One thing. What's one thing that stood out to you? Before I go into a few things that stood out to me, I would
- [18:56]
Bobby Jones
say the number one thing that jumped out to me is when reality sucks, create your own. Everything that happened in that speech was an attempt to create an alternate universe where, hey, inflation, kitchen table issues, they don't exist. America's hot, hot, hot, hot, hot, hot. And because I, as a personal leader, as a person, have nothing glamorous to let me go ahead and sponge off of everybody else that's done well, the men's hockey team, the two Medal of Honor winners that were awarded all of this. And, and here's the thing. When you applaud for them, I feel like you're applauding for me because my narcissism needs that fuel. But I can't talk about how many people have lost health care in the last year. I can't talk about how it cost damn near $20 to eat at McDonald's. Now I can't talk about how literally the Veterans Administration is about to put millions of veterans out when it comes to services. I can't talk about these things that I know affect you. So we're going to be in this bubble. And by the way, Democrats, the fact that you didn't stand up for the stuff that I wanted you to, you're bad people, you know, and not going protocol. He literally tried to create a TV show with the most dime store screenwriters you can find, Stephen Miller and those clowns. He tried to go on the old tropes of, hey, I got nothing good Let me go find some racist boogeyman to talk about, right? He talked about how, you know, culture wars where we're watching, you know, parents have their kids taken from them to be changed to be a reassigned genders, but you sure as hell ain't talking about the families. You're breaking up with these illegal immigration raids. You see what I'm saying?
- [20:49]
Amy
So he basically an alternate universe.
- [20:51]
Bobby Jones
Yes, an alternate universe. That's all I can tell you. I'm like, well, that's interesting, but not compelling because I know facts. Most people do because they see it when they go to the damn store.
- [21:01]
Amy
Yeah, no, that's a great point. And a lot of things stood out to me. I'm just going to go over a few. One, he is tripling down, quadrupling down on this crazy tariff policy that no economist said we should do, hasn't been done since 1930, is jacking up the prices of everything, is pissing off our allies and partners. And he just fundamentally thinks, thinks it's an ideological thing for him. He just fundamentally thinks this is the greatest idea ever. And it's dumb, it's stupid, it's hurting Kentuckians, it's hurting Americans. But you know, he's tripling down on it. And he, you know, he said countries were once ripping us off and now we're paying hundreds of billions of dollars. They are paying that, you know, and he really must think the American people are stupid. Either that or he himself believes this crap. I mean, I, I've gone back and forth in my mind like, does, does. Is he like, does. He's like, in his mind, is he like, ah, the American people, they're going to believe this. It's, it's a bunch of. But they're gonna be. Or does he really, is he really that dumb? And he really thinks that, you know, and then he goes on to say, hey, our tariff income is gonna replace our income tax, right? I mean, you gotta be the dumbest. 90% of. Over 90% of tariffs are paid for by the United States. There was a report last week by this group called. The, it's an international group called the Global Trade Alert. And they found that our tariff rates on countries like Brazil and China were lower than the rates that we continue to impose, Bobby, on our long standing allies like the EU and Britain and Japan. I mean, it's unbelievable. And it's hurting people.
- [22:56]
Bobby Jones
It's. It's hurting people, it's hurting international relationships it took generations to build. To answer your question, the answer is yes to both. He Believes that we are that stupid. And he believes in these things. And every time he mentions tariffs, I'm like, I see how you were bankrupt six times in the casino industry, which is designed for the House to win. I see it. You go out of your way to plant this. Here's the thing with the terror. You're Kentucky, my gosh, agricultural state that exports a lot of things, starting, you know, bourbon, liquor, adult beverages. You cannot tell me that your state is not feeling the economic pinch. Between that and then, of course, the one big, beautiful bill when it comes to healthcare and rural hospitals, Kentucky, damn near when you really think about it, is ground zero for impact of average, everyday Americans. And I cannot believe that y' all are believing that in that state. Can't.
- [23:56]
Amy
I think. I think a lot of people are feeling it. And, you know, the key is, do you connect the dots between. This is a policy that was unilaterally instituted by the President of the United States with the consent, in cheering on of Republicans in Congress, including the Republicans in Congress from Kentucky, who know. Who have to know that this is just killing our farmers and our bourbon industry and really hurting people at the checkout line. There's two other things that really stuck out for me during the State of the Union, and, you know, this is beyond, of course, the sideshow stuff of the U.S. men's hockey team and all of that. You know, I'm super proud of the hockey team, both men's and women's and all of that. But let's just talk politics and policy. I guess one is when the President of the United States made this claim, very sort of arrogant, lambasting claim, which basically said, We've lifted 2.4 million Americans a record off of food stamps. And then, yeah, Bobby, all of the Republicans stand up, start clapping and cheering as if they're in North Korea. And I'm thinking to myself, they're clapping for us. Ripping people off of food stamps. 2.4 million Americans who are in poverty. You know, kids, yes, you can't. Parents and families who can't afford food, or maybe they're in between jobs, and we're, like, cheering this on, right?
- [25:44]
Bobby Jones
You know, it was depraved because here, when you think about it logically, again, I graduated dead last. I'm class anchor of Class 2001 of Annapolis. But I can do basic math. If you have job reports over the last year that show a net job loss in the economy, right? And then you go at the State of the Union and talk about 2 million people are now off of food stamps. The logical conclusion to me is if I have no job and I need government assistance, and now we have 2 million off, that means people who need help have been booted unceremoniously off of that program, who, by the way, if they had jobs, had paid into it possibly for years. And now, in a down moment needed, they've been kicked off to include starving kids, making kids go hungry. And then you're gonna be the first one to talk about they underachieve in school. Get out of here with that. That's bullshit.
- [26:44]
Amy
It's crazy. I just interviewed, did an interview about the connection between SNAP and school lunches. And so, you know, to me, when I saw all the Republicans standing up and clapping, I thought, oh, you're clapping for, for, you know, more kids going to school hungry.
- [27:04]
Bobby Jones
Exactly.
- [27:05]
Amy
You know, that's, that's what we're doing. The other piece that really stood out at me was also when Republicans, you know, jumped up and clapped like they were in North Korea. And it was after the President said a long rant about how Democrats can only win elections if they cheat. You know, sowing this irresponsible lie that our elections are fraudulent. He said, you know, cheating is rampant in our elections. No, it's not. And then he went on to say, Democrats want to cheat and their policy is so bad that the only way they can get elected is to cheat, and we're gonna stop it. And so think about that. How bad is our democracy right now? When the President of the United States stands up there and says to the world that the opposition party in America can't win an election unless they cheat or buy fraud? And all while Republicans stand up and clap for
- [28:12]
Bobby Jones
is. It is something out of like a dystopian future, like movie, right? And you've nailed it when you said North Korea. Because the reality is this. Trump does not see the United States government and its systems, right, the whole Constitution thing, as something for the people. He sees it as a tool for his own self aggrandizement. He, he does not and cannot accept the fact that he could lose anything. He hates Biden to his core because he actually gave him the most biggest public humiliation of his life. He lost. He couldn't spin it. He couldn't do. He tried. And in trying, he, he unraveled the trust and full confidence we have in our system that he knows that the midterms is going to be not some blue wave. It's going to be a blue tsunami. It's going to, I mean, like, I Said, my way of thinking about this, you get it in them again, you can get the Senate, too. And now impeachment is on the table. It's on the table. And the thing that people need to understand about impeachment is not just him being removed from office, he is now subject to prosecution, which is why he's terrified of it. Okay, so he's trying to plant those seeds. Now, me personally, I, I believe he's raising these issues, having ICE do what they do. So he can use ICE as a Gestapo force during the actual election season, meaning they'll post people right outside of precincts saying, we don't want illegals to vote. I can see it because they, because they kind of try to test this. And what's going to happen is he's going to be sorely mistaken. Because one thing about Americans, we hate being told what to do. This is a universal theme. You can be black, white, Asian, Hispanic, I don't care. The second you tell me I can't do something, all of a sudden, I want to do it. We're wired weird that way, right?
- [30:05]
Amy
That's human nature, right?
- [30:07]
Bobby Jones
Yeah. And so when you amplify this, he wants to make sure that the elections are in question as long as possible so he can maintain power. That's it. It's funny how 2020, that election was rigged. 2024, it wasn't rigged. 2016 wasn't rigged. And I'm trying to figure out, well, what was the difference? What was the difference? He said 2024, things were, you know, the election turnout was too big to fail. I'm comparing election turnout numbers, and I'm
- [30:36]
Amy
like, well, it doesn't make sense, Bobby. I mean, he was in power in 2020. So somehow. Tell me how, how the 2020 election was rigged when Republicans are in power, but then when Democrats are in power in 2024, when he, when he, Donald Trump, won, somehow that's not right. I mean, the logic there is bonkers. It's just completely bonkers.
- [31:01]
Bobby Jones
He's the type that he just, he can't accept losing, and he cannot accept the publicity of losing. He's taking a lot of Ls behind closed doors, but this, that was huge. It was huge.
- [31:13]
Amy
Well, Bobby, there's a really important story that also is being underreported. And I want to get your take on it, especially with your background working with the Missile Defense Agency. You were a very decorated Navy officer, surface warfare officer, but you've done a lot of tours, doing lots of different, really cool stuff. Okay. And the future, not only for all of us, and the future of tech and, you know, the future of warfare is AI. And this week there's this issue between the Department of Defense, namely the Secretary of Defense, or Secretary of War, whatever he wants to call himself, and an AI company called Anthropic. Okay, and so what's this all about? Pete Heath, who is unfortunately our Secretary of Defense, he wants this private AI company to drop its own safety guardrails. Okay. Or he'll say if they don't do what he wants, the Pentagon will then cancel this private company's $200 million contract to work with the Pentagon and force that company to. He wants to force the company to tailor its model of artificial intelligence to the military's needs. So there's a lot going on there, right? And people need to know that tech companies that develop AI and the people that develop AI do have some serious ethical concerns with that technology. In this case, that company and its developers do not want their work, their technology to be used in what they consider potentially unethical ways, like massive government spying on its own citizens, which could happen. Or autonomous, lethal weapons. Now, they are a private company. So now you have a Secretary of Defense ordering a private company develop a weapon. And if they don't, then we will. We, meaning the Department of Defense, will cut off your other Department of Defense contracts. That's how I read this, yes. What are your thoughts on this?
- [33:35]
Bobby Jones
It's. It's basically ethical blackmail. Okay. So they're like, do this. Create this weapon. Which, by the way, by the way, we have already seen the lack of ethics and morals with the current Secretary of Defense, personally and professionally, where they can use this to do this. Now, let me be very clear about something. When we talk about the missile strikes, the autonomous. When I worked at the Missile Defense Agency, I had to travel all over the world to different conferences to get the world to agree on what was considered a valued, protected target, what's not. And because in. In this sphere, people need to understand, you have to have sensors all over the world. You have to have all. Because this happens like that, right? And if you don't have everybody aligned on the same page, if you don't have everybody aligned on what's. What's worth defending, what's not, it fails. It fails miserably. And so now when you inject AI into it, AI is not going to necessarily be able to tell you what's of value when. That's why we have to have this human interaction piece. You want this company to Develop this, this, this system and turn it over to you. The guardrails gone, the ethical guardrails gone, all of that. And just trust you with it. Understand something. When these missiles leave the rails, there's no going back. There's no going back, right? And for Hegseth to basically say, do this or else, basically, your company will fail is, Is akin to, hey, you have figured out how the atomic bomb can work. You not gonna. You. If you don't give it to us, your company will fail. This, that, and the other. But the flip side is, hey, give us this technology and trust us to use it. If I was this company, I'd be like, hell no too. The other piece that people need to understand is we live in an age where missiles, ballistic missiles, the warfare that we did, it's all policy made real in real time. What do I mean by that? If the President of the United States says, hey, we value protecting this and striking this within an hour, the entire defense structure can change. And you can do it. Now, if I have systems that are spying on other people, right, And I make this decision, I could literally change the world, the outcome of it. And the people on ground, both where the shooting is coming from and where it's going, would have no idea. That is almost godlike power.
- [36:15]
Amy
We have ethical concerns about unchecked government use of AI. I mean, that's what this is about. And we need to have a serious debate about this stuff before we just hand it over. I think that's, you know, these tech companies who, who know these people know the powerfulness of what they are developing. And I, I mean, I think it, it should give them pause. It has. It should give all of us pause. Some in the Trump administration right now have criticized Anthropic's response here. And they've said, I'm going to quote them here. Their hard line on domestic surveillance and AI weapons is woke. It's woke AI. And so, and then I take. And I laugh at that. But I guess the new word for ethics is woke. But it always has place replace that. Yeah. And it got me thinking the same thing. I think it could replace that word with ethics almost every single time. It's now woke to not want AI assisted mass surveillance that can track dissent in the United States.
- [37:31]
Bobby Jones
I mean, a couple of things. Number one, your, your observation on the term woke is brilliant. It's for something that basically it was black slang vernacular. Now, being like you said, take woke, use word ethic or ethical. There you have it. It's very simple with this the reason that this company has to push back all the different debates we're having about ethics when it comes to AI. The one major difference here is this company knows this AI will eventually go from ideal and policy to kinetic. There is your difference. Actual warfare, actual missiles raining down based on whatever algorithm, whatever AI they come up with, that's a game changer. This goes beyond surveillance. This goes beyond data collection. This can end lives. So, yes, they should sit there and be pausing on what we. Hey, what are we doing here? What are we trying. And the fact that the current administration is trying to make it seem like they're traitorous because they do not want to be proactively involved in the kill chain says everything you need to know. Because they're the ones that would create the kill chain and execute it with their proprietary software to do it. And they're mad that they can't use it and they don't want to have restrictions on it. This is mind boggling.
- [38:51]
Amy
Yeah, it is. And there's one other important point that I want to bring up here is we do have to have an adult debate on this. On the one hand, you know, you want to develop technology that can give you an advantage in war. Bobby, you want that. I want that. We both served for decades in the United States military, went to combat. You always want to have an advantage. War is not fair. Right? You. You want that advantage. You don't want the other side to have that advantage. But AI is very powerful, and it's. It's almost like nuclear technology to some degree. We are going to have to develop ethical guardrails for ourselves, and we're going to have to use diplomacy. Going back to the beginning of our discussion, we're going to have to use diplomacy for the rest of the world because this stuff is so powerful that if we don't have guardrails, I mean, you can imagine so much death and destruction in the world. Almost like we won't even be able to think of the world the same way if we don't. Global security will be at risk. And one thing is for sure, I do not want Pete Hegseth calling the shots on this.
- [40:16]
Bobby Jones
No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. And Amy, you. You. You hit on something when you talk about diplomacy. Here's the other piece of this. Internally, just in the United States, this has been one of the hardest things for Congress to wrap their minds around, which is why we need people like you there. Because to be quite honest and be blunt and frank, a lot of these cats that are making supposed to make. These are too old to even understand what this is. They do not understand AI. They don't understand computer language. They don't understand. Heck, they had a hard time with the. When it came out because a lot of those members are still in. Okay, and so how do you have a debate with people that don't understand? This is like trying to talk in the ultimate foreign language to these people and have consist. Because the. The details are where that devil lies. Right? You will understand it because you existed before and now after and understand how AI has changed the landscape. But there are certain people, especially in the Senate, that do not understand it. They're getting campaign contributions to look the other way. And so they don't think it's a big deal. But you and I know it's a big deal. And the debate needs to be happening behind closed doors and in public so the people understand that there is a balance on using this tool. It's the same as if you got fire yesterday. Fire can burn you or it can help energize you. Which is it? AI is the same thing. We've seen this before.
- [41:43]
Amy
Yeah, 100%. Well, let's get into some quick takes here. So I think, let's see. Does anyone, Bobby, take their job in the Trump administration less seriously than the FBI director, Cash Patel? Like Cash Patel flies out to Italy on taxpayer dime in his own private jet to party at the Olympics. Not a whole lot of FBI activity going on in Italy, Bobby. But then he appears in a video in the US Men's hockey team locker room chugging a beer, spraying the bottle's contents all over the place, pumping his fists. And you know, meanwhile, there was a threat at Mar a Lago on the president. Americans in Mexico are facing threats by cartel members. You have Nancy Guthrie still missing, and our FBI director is. Is out there partying. You know what?
- [42:41]
Bobby Jones
Yeah, I mean, well, I mean that. And then he's used the. The private plane to fly his girlfriend around in her, I guess, singing career or something like that. I don't even know what the hell it is. Here's what I know. If James Comey would do that, people would have had him filleted. If Chris Ray would have done that, they would have had him filet. But here's the thing. The current Trump administration is very good in bitching and complaining and having snowflake syndrome, which they love to accuse others of, but in reality, they're a walking blizzard. They're a bunch of snowflakes. And what happens when you have Cash Patel again? Let's go back what we said earlier. Unqualified to have the job, has no idea what the heck he's doing. He believes FBI is like. Think the being the FBI director is like being the number one cheerleader. You know, he got ahead on things on the Kirk assassination. He's gotten ahead on all these things in the past, trying to seem tough, only to afford to be walked back. So of course he's going to go. I mean, I know he's a hockey fan and that's fine, but hey, it's not like he's actually directing the FBI anyway. So maybe while he's overseas, real stuff with the, the few career professionals left can actually be accomplished. Is it a bad look? Sure.
- [43:56]
Amy
It's waste and abuse. If any O5 or general officer took a jet halfway around the world for a party, what do you think would happen to them? I'll tell you what I think would happen to them. They would be fired. They would be relieved for loss of trust and confidence. And, you know, former acting director Andrew McCabe, he called out Patel and he said, you know, this sends a horrible message to the FBI rank and file and it's a horrible message to the country because, you know, but you got to be, if you're rank and file in the FBI, you see your FBI director, oh, he's just partying it up over there. I mean, it's the same way if you're in the military. You know, this is ridiculous.
- [44:33]
Bobby Jones
Accountability is not a foundational bedrock with anybody in this administration. When I look at that Cabinet, just that, you know, that Cabinet, doj, FBI, that's under it, all this kind of stuff, the cabinet is filled with non serious people. So how, why would we expect him to be, I don't know, at his FBI desk 24 7? You know, when I was a commanding officer, I had a cot in my office, you know what I'm saying? Because they're nice. Hey, I might as well just sleep here because I gotta be back up in two hours. What's the point? And everybody that's been in leadership positions in government have probably had those moments, right, where you ain't going home, this, that and the other, let alone halfway around the world to watch a damn hockey game, drink and have fun and come back. There's real things that need to be done here. If you didn't want leadership, then damn it, don't say you wanted it, don't sign up for it. But the thing that blew my mind about him being there more so than anything else was, you're right. All those different things popping off and we hadn't gotten one update, one news update. No, no, no. No news press conference about these issues because they're many. He doesn't do it unless it's glamorous, unless it's a showmanship type of thing. But he has no problem being broadcast all over the world partying with the US Men's hockey team. I don't, you know, between him and Hegseth, I don't know who's the biggest screw up. Well, no, wait. Don't want to be sexist. Pam Bondi, come on down. You're there, too. So, I mean, between them and their public Persona. And then, of course, we have all heard the behind the scenes rumbling of this cabinet and how the career professionals feel about them. Look, we may be at the tail end of this experiment called America if we do not shift this thing back in 26.
- [46:22]
Amy
Yeah. Well, this past week, President Trump held his first Board of Peace meeting. And I want to get your take on this. This is a meeting without many of our key allies. And President Trump has said, hey, the Board of Peace has already pledged $7 billion in aid to Gaza, which, by the way, is a fraction of actually what would be needed to rebuild it. But, and, and we also have an organization already designed to promote peace and conflict resolution. It's called the United Nations. It was built by the greatest generation, by the way, and it's actually headquartered in New York City, but our president doesn't want to use that. But all of our closest allies, Bobby, are not on this Board of Peace. But I want to review some of the countries that are on it. Okay? Azerbaijan, Belarus, El Salvador, Hungary, Kazakhstan, Pakistan, Qatar, uae, Uzbekistan. Bobby, these are some of the countries where, when you and I were in the military, you had to get special permission to go to go to those countries with an active secret or top secret clearance because those countries couldn't be trusted.
- [47:41]
Bobby Jones
Bingo. And it's funny you say this because when I saw the, you know, the actual meeting and stuff, I was like, this is Mar A Lago 2.0. It's a country club. And they've all paid their entry fee to get in. But then I, I became more petty and I said, is this what it's like to watch the Legion of Doom form? Because that's what it seems like. You have the super friends over here at the United nations. You got the Legion of Doom over here with this side pocket thing that they're creating. And here's the question, what the hell does peace look like to them? That's my question. What is peace looking like to you when you have the United nations over here where the world is like, hey, this is what we have seen peace to be over the existence of humankind. And then you've got this offshoot over here in the swamp looking like the Legion of Doom. And Trump is sitting there saying, pay me, pay me. And these pledges, where's this money going? Who's collecting this? Who's responsible for it? And $7 billion is a drop in the absolute bucket dealing with was happening in Gaza. Gaza has been eradicated. It is the grayest, dustiest place on earth right now. And you think $7 billion, which, heck, you got football stadiums in America being built for that money, you know, that's not going to rebuild Gaza. So why are we doing this?
- [48:57]
Amy
Does anybody trust that that money that's probably going to go to Jared Kushner is going to be spent? Anything to help Gaza. I mean, come on, man.
- [49:07]
Bobby Jones
And the thing that bothers me the most about that in particular is Congress is supposed to be the ones that say, hey, these bodies, these treaties, this, that and the other, specifically, the US Senate is supposed to sanction all of this type of stuff. They are continuously mia. So I don't know, I don't know what to tell you there.
- [49:26]
Amy
Yeah, well, you know, Trump's in office and we are turning our backs on our best friends like Germany and Britain. They can't be trusted. They can't be on the board. They don't want to be on the board because they don't trust us. And, and we're buddy, buddy with the likes of Hungary and Pakistan. You know, I mean, places that when you and I were, were in the, in the military. I mean, any commander would be like, where, where do you think you're going? You're not going there.
- [49:59]
Bobby Jones
I mean, it was like, big deal, big deal to get a chit if you even had a family member to go see them there.
- [50:05]
Amy
Right? Everybody is a, is a permission. When you're in the military, you have to get permission to go to certain foreign countries. If you want to go to, like, France or something on your honeymoon, you, you actually have to get permission to go there. And, and those, those countries that I just mentioned, that any commander, if you said, hey, I want to go to Uzbekistan or whatever, they would, they would be like, that's gonna go higher than me.
- [50:33]
Bobby Jones
Yep.
- [50:35]
Amy
All right, so this week's Shout Out. The skater with the huge smile. I love the Winter Olympics. I'm so sad that the Winter Olympics are over. But, Alyssa Lu, I hope you're familiar with our story. She. She quit her sport due to burnout at age 16. She delivered a career performance and seven triple jumps. She earned this massive score in women's figure skating and the first woman to win the Olympic singles Gold since 2002. So shout out to her, was there any part of the Winter Olympics that you love the most?
- [51:13]
Bobby Jones
A couple of things. Number one, let's anchor on her for a second. Her story is phenomenal. Not just because of her, because of her family in the background. They're going back to Tim and Square. And this. She is like the ultimate American story, right? The resiliency to get back on the horse, do this. And it's so funny. Like, when you watched her skate that, that, that. That gold medal performance, he looked happy, like she did not have any worry, no stress, because her family and her have been forged before this. You know what I'm saying? And when you put the coals in the fire, you ain't worried about if it's gonna light. When it needs to, it's gonna light. And she knew it. It. I was like, go ahead, girl. Do I mean, like, it was phenomenal to watch, right? And then, you know, the women's hockey team. I tell you something. I gotta tell you something. This rivalry with Canada, the only time I really pay attention to hockey is during the Stanley cup playoffs, which I think is the most gruesome thing in sports and the Winter Olympics because of how this thing with Canada and United States has gone for a couple of decades now. The women's hockey team. Team, man, I tell you what, they were like, we are the most dominant team in these Olympics, and we're going to prove it. And I give Canada credit for stepping up this, then the other. But to watch the sheer joy on their faces, their coach crying and this, that and the other, before the boys gotten do to do their thing, should not be understated, because as someone who's got two daughters, right, the physical toughness to play that sport, the. The desire, you know, you know, they had various ethnicities on that team, too, which. A tribute to the development program that the women's team has. You know, I thought it was phenomenal. I was just like. Now, granted, the Winter Olympics are usually too cold for me to ever want to go in person, you know, and I'm from Atlanta. We had the 96 Olympics. Here was the coolest thing I think I've ever seen. And as far as sports goes. But make no mistake, the stories are what make the Olympics great. You know, especially American stories, because almost all of those stories start in another country.
- [53:19]
Amy
Yeah, I loved watching it all. I still don't understand curling. I loved watching the men's and women's hockey. I watched both games and it was amazing for the gold medal games. I mean, it was awesome. So shout out to all the Olympians. And this was an amazing truth in the barrel. I loved having you on, Bobby. What a great discussion. Please come back and for everyone out there, you know, continue listening. Don't put your head in the sand at this time in American history. So, Bobby, thanks for being with us today.
- [53:53]
Bobby Jones
No, thank you. Thank you for having me, Amy. And if you guys need me for anything, you guys know where to find me. It was really an honor and a privilege to be here with you.
- [54:05]
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