Combating the Loneliness Epidemic: How Social Connection Can Save Lives | S5E5

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Turning Points: Navigating Mental Health
Episode: Combating the Loneliness Epidemic: How Social Connection Can Save Lives | S5E5
Date: November 5, 2025
Host: Frances Leese
Guests: Dr. Jim Lubbon, Roxy B. Rocker

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Episode Overview

This episode of Turning Points tackles the “loneliness epidemic”—the widespread, often invisible crisis of social isolation impacting mental and physical well-being. Through the intertwined stories of Dr. Jim Lubbon, a gerontology researcher and cancer survivor, and Roxy B. Rocker, a disabled entrepreneur and advocate, host Frances Leese explores how forging and nurturing social connections can literally save lives, with insight, warmth, and actionable advice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power of Social Connection (00:03 – 01:51)

• Dr. Jim Lubbon opens the episode sharing how a walking partner kept him active through cancer treatment at age 80, emphasizing:

  "We are social animals, and we need to live in a social community." (01:51 - Dr. Jim Lubbon)

• Frances Leese frames loneliness as a health crisis, not only emotional but physical, introducing the theme: the transformative power of connection in adversity.

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2. Roxy B. Rocker's Journey: From Isolation to “Heart Friends” (02:08 – 10:28)

Background & Barriers:

• Roxy moves to Boston amid cumulative grief (loss of both parents), chronic pain, and disabilities.
• Despite joining a disability-focused workplace, she feels alienated:

  "I would hide sometimes in cars. I would jump into taxis so I wouldn't cry on the subway. Every day I would talk about isolation and depression." (03:15 - Roxy B. Rocker)

• Chronic pain—especially undiagnosed endometriosis—makes even basic communication and socializing a challenge (04:18 – 05:28).

Turning Point:

• A near-fatal car accident becomes a catalyst:

  "I don't know what happened when I hit my head, but when I hit my head, my brain changed...I wanted my life to be different." (06:11, 08:08 - Roxy B. Rocker)

• Roxy feels a renewed drive for connection and creativity:

  "I wasn't afraid as much, and I was been afraid my whole life. But something happened that I wanted my life to be different." (08:08 - Roxy B. Rocker)

Rebuilding Community:

• She joins professional and business groups, builds a wellness brand, launches advocacy projects, and finds “heart friends”:

  "You build community by attracting people who are beautiful, and if they have good hearts, that's who I want in my world." (09:09 - Roxy B. Rocker)

• Celebrating her 52nd birthday, Roxy revels in the joy of “memories, fun, dressing up, getting cute” with her new support network (09:58).

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3. The Science of Loneliness & Aging (10:28 – 14:44)

• Frances introduces Dr. Jim Lubbon’s research on social isolation:
  • Social networks protect physical health, encourage healthy behaviors, and provide vital support.
  • Referencing major studies, Dr. Lubbon notes:

    “Social isolation is the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day. So it's on par with smoking in terms of a health risk.” (11:05 - Dr. Jim Lubbon)

• Jim recounts his own transition into retirement, relocation to Brooklyn to be closer to family, and his effort to rebuild friendship circles:

  "...to really age well, you need both family and friends." (12:36 - Dr. Jim Lubbon)

  • His “gentleman’s lunch bunch” is a concrete example of proactive network-building (13:36).

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4. Social Support Through Adversity (14:44 – 16:20)

• Dr. Lubbon credits his recovery from cancer and grief after losing his wife to the steady presence of family and friends:

  “I could have easily been wiped out, but it was my family, my friends, that got me going again...So I think we're all in this together, but we have to realize that we're all in this together and try to weave that social fabric...” (15:02 - Dr. Jim Lubbon)

• Social ties buffer stress, aid healing, and even prompt better medical outcomes (16:42).

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5. Why Connections Get Overlooked (17:46 – 19:05)

• Cultural Myths:
  • American ideal of the “rugged individualist” hides our social dependencies.

  • “The Beatles were right. We get by with a little help from our friends in our family and so forth. We really are very dependent upon the social milieu in which we live and how we can help out one another.” (17:56 - Dr. Jim Lubbon)

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6. Rebuilding & Assessing Social Networks (19:05 – 23:04)

• Practical advice on reconnecting:
  • Join groups (clubs, religious institutions, professional organizations).
  • Recognize need for both “primary” (family/friends) and “secondary” (community/orgs) social groups in later life.
• Warning Signs:
  • Subtle signals of isolation in elders.
  • Introduces the Lubbon Social Network Scale, measuring both structural (frequency of contacts) and functional (emotional/instrumental support) aspects of relationships (20:46).

  • "Friendships are different than familial relationships, and you need both." (22:22 - Dr. Jim Lubbon)

• Advocates treating social wellness as seriously as exercise and nutrition.

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7. The Critical Role of Social Connection in Aging Well (23:04 – 25:17)

• Dr. Lubbon’s closing takeaway:

  "Social connections may turn out to be one of the most important, if not the most important, facet of successful aging...Any delusion that we ever may have had of the rugged individualists was pure delusion." (23:11 - Dr. Jim Lubbon)

• The importance of nurturing a supportive, hate-free community in which growth and joy can occur.

• “You really have to weave that social fabric or else life isn't going to be as good as it could be.” (25:17 - Dr. Jim Lubbon)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Roxy B. Rocker:

  "Isolation is, you don't really know anyone. You don't really have any community, you don't have anything. So you feel pretty, not very great about yourself because why am I not being engaged? Why am I not being included?" (03:37)

• Frances Leese:

  “Social isolation isn't just about being alone. It's a silent epidemic that affects millions, especially as we age.” (10:28)

• Dr. Jim Lubbon:

  "We are social animals and we need to live in a social community." (01:51)
  "Just as we need Social Security and the retirement accounts...we ought to think about building the social capital that we're going to need in retirement." (13:57)

• Call to Action (Frances Leese):

  “Connection isn't just nice. It's vital, as essential to our health as the food we eat, the sleep we get, the air we breathe...Build your heart friends, you don't need the perfect words, just your presence. We grow in each other's company. That's the real medicine. And someone out there is hoping you'll go first.” (25:31)

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Suggested Timestamps for Listening

• Dr. Jim Lubbon on neighbor support during illness: 00:03, 15:02
• Roxy B. Rocker on disability and loneliness: 02:19, 03:37
• Major turning point after car accident: 05:45 – 07:47
• Building community and “heart friends”: 08:08 – 09:49
• Dr. Jim Lubbon on the science of isolation: 11:05, 13:36
• Practical ways to assess and build networks: 20:46 – 23:04
• Episode summary and call to action: 25:31

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Structure Recommendations

For Listeners Seeking Key Insights:

• Start at 02:08 for Roxy’s emotional journey
• Sample 11:05 – 14:44 for Dr. Lubbon’s social science
• 20:46 ff. for practical advice and actionable steps
• 25:31 for the heartfelt closing call to stay connected

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Conclusion

This episode demonstrates, through candid storytelling and scientific expertise, that intentional social connection is not just a remedy but a necessity—for healing, resilience, and the joy of being alive. The stories of Roxy and Dr. Lubbon prove it’s never too late for a turning point.
“Stay connected. That’s the real medicine.”

Transcript

[Dr. Jim Lubbon]

I have a neighbor in the building. We're walking partners, so we go out on a regular basis. And she keeps me active. And that was especially helpful last year because I'm now 80 years of age and got cancer. I had to go through chemotherapy and surgery and everything. And having a friend who didn't allow me to, even though I was dead tired from the chemo, to stay in my apartment. But to get out, go for a walk, even if it meant struggling up to a park bench and sitting down, resting up so I could come back home, was good for me. And so I'm very thankful.

[Frances Leese]

I'm Frances Leese, and this is Turning Points. They say friendship is the spice of life. But what happens when life changes and friendships start slipping through the cracks? Maybe you moved to a new city. Maybe you lost someone. Maybe your body just doesn't work the way it used to. Slowly, the connections get quieter and the silence gets louder. This week on Turning Points, we're talking about something millions of people experience, but very few talk. Loneliness. We're in the middle of what a former US Surgeon General calls a public health crisis, social isolation. And it doesn't just hurt emotionally. It affects our health, our healing, and how we see ourselves. But isolation doesn't have to be the end of the story. Through the lives of two remarkable people, we'll explore how even the most painful disconnection can lead to the most unexpected healing.

[Dr. Jim Lubbon]

We are social animals, and we need to live in a social community.

[Roxy B. Rocker]

I found all these communities, and it kind of turned around.

[Frances Leese]

Sometimes pain itself becomes the barrier to connection. That's the story of Roxy Rocker, entrepreneur, massage therapist, and disability advocate.

[Roxy B. Rocker]

My name is Roxy B. Rocker, and I'm a multi entrepreneur. I have a few businesses. One is on embracing disability, where we do education and awareness. And then the other one is a wellness practice, and I'm a therapeutic practitioner.

[Frances Leese]

When Roxy moved from Arizona to Boston for work, she was already carrying a lot. Multiple disabilities, chronic pain, and an undiagnosed case of endometriosis. And on top of all that, she had just lost both of her parents.

[Roxy B. Rocker]

I've been a person with disability my whole life. Just finding people out here and building those friendships out here hasn't been easy.

[Frances Leese]

She thought she was stepping into a supportive space in her new job, a disability organization built around inclusion. But what she walked into was something entirely different.

[Roxy B. Rocker]

I worked there for a couple of years, and it was a very difficult time. I would hide sometimes in cars. I would jump into taxis so I wouldn't cry on the subway. Every day I would talk about isolation and depression. You go to work and you feel isolated at your job, so you move.

[Frances Leese]

There for economic opportunities and it just kind of further deepened isolation.

[Roxy B. Rocker]

Yeah, And I couldn't leave the house. I couldn't really go and do in half the things that I wanted to do. Isolation is, you don't really know anyone. You don't really have any community, you don't have anything. So you feel pretty, not very great about yourself because why am I not being engaged? Why am I not being included? Loneliness, Your heartaches. Your heart just aches because you want someone just to hold your hand or know that they're thinking about you.

[Frances Leese]

Chronic pain and disability didn't just affect Roxy's body, they made it harder to build new connections, too.

[Roxy B. Rocker]

For example, I was going to help a new business that I really appreciated one day, and I really wanted to help her. But the endometriosis was getting so bad that I could barely lift my head off the pillow and I was getting a headache. And the only way you can describe it is it's not a belly ache, it's a pelvic ache. So like somebody punches your pelvis in the gut and then you can feel it in your womb. So now you have a headache that's so debilitating you can't even open your eyes. You're in bed in pain with a something heated on you because the pain is so excruciating and you don't know when it's going to leave. So you're in bed with probably four or five different pains that you can't describe. And you're just trying to sit there, lay there and breathe. Maybe music is on or a television is on because it's so debilitating that you're sleeping, you're resting, you're trying to function, but you just can't. I mean, you can barely even lift up your head if you've got the migraines with it.

[Frances Leese]

So you can barely have a conversation.

[Roxy B. Rocker]

Yeah, you can barely even talk.

[Frances Leese]

Then came the wake up call. In December 2021, while driving, Roxy hit a patch of ice. The accident that followed changed and everything.

[Roxy B. Rocker]

I broke my orbital bone, my nose, I think I broke my jaw, my neck had a C tube fracture. I was in a neck collar. And they were concerned I was going to be paralyzed and I had a brain injury.

[Frances Leese]

Roxy woke up in the trauma ward with no memory of the accident. As her body began to heal, something inside her had shifted. She could feel it.

[Roxy B. Rocker]

So I really wonder if wherever I hit on the head. It woke something up because I cried a lot. My pain. And there's anger also in this because you're just so frustrated and you don't know what to do. But as I started healing, something inside of me felt different from that car accident. And I can't explain any of it except that I know I'm lucky to be alive. But as I was healing, I smiled more, I had more joy, and I wanted more things than I ever wanted in my entire life. I don't know what happened when I hit my head, but when I hit my head, my brain changed. I still get anxious. I feel like my life got awoken in a way.

[Frances Leese]

Do you feel like you came close to your own mortality at that time? Do you think that's what kind of shifted as the accident was so major?

[Roxy B. Rocker]

There might have been something inside of me that knew that it was my mortality because I don't know if I was even alive after that spin on the car. I just remembered there was ice under my car. I knew I wanted to get out of the ice. And the next thing I know was, be careful. It's your neck. And I was bloody in an ambulance.

[Frances Leese]

It's all, I'm glad you're here, Roxy.

[Roxy B. Rocker]

I'm so glad I'm here. I'm doing much more fun stuff now instead of crying in bed and wondering if I want to have a friend or not.

[Frances Leese]

Yeah, turning point.

[Roxy B. Rocker]

Yeah, I did. I had a turning point after that accident. I have friends now. I can text them all day long.

[Frances Leese]

Roxy started joining communities Boston business women professional development groups. Each step felt like a stretch. She kept leaping.

[Roxy B. Rocker]

I was getting happier. I wasn't afraid as much, and I was been afraid my whole life. But something happened that I wanted my life to be different. I didn't want to be hiding. I didn't want to be afraid. And I didn't want the pain and this emotional anxiety to take everything away from me. I have had a lot of dreams my whole life, and when you're disabled, you're told you can't do that. I wanted to be a social worker. I wanted to be a therapist. And many neuropsych therapists said, that's not for you. You could never do that. Never.

[Frances Leese]

But Roxy didn't listen to the never. She launched a TV show called Embracing what's Possible with Roxy. She's designing clothing line for people with structural body differences. She's building a magazine. But more than anything, she's building what she calls Heart Friends.

[Roxy B. Rocker]

I found all these Communities, and it kind of turned around. You build community by attracting people who are beautiful, and if they have good hearts, that's who I want in my world. And my people are so good to me, and I am so good to them because we love one another and we care about each other. And if I didn't join Boston Businesswoman and this other group Unleashed, I wouldn't have the heart. Friends that I have that are part of my life that support me and help me, and I'm a disabled entrepreneur who's a multi entrepreneur.

[Frances Leese]

Just after her 52nd birthday, Roxy went to a soiree in New Hampshire with her business community.

[Roxy B. Rocker]

I got to celebrate my birthday with my friends in that room, meeting new friends, and we're all decked out. I was in all sequins, pearls and pearls. I was decked out. So, you know, you light up a room because you're in there with your buddies. I mean, these are the moments that you love. So talk about a birthday, right? Memories, fun, dressing up, getting cute.

[Frances Leese]

Big adventure. Yeah, big adventure. Social isolation isn't just about being alone. It's a silent epidemic that affects millions, especially as we age. What exactly happens in our bodies and minds that make isolation so dangerous? That question led me to Dr. Jim Lubbon, professor emeritus from UCLA and Boston College, who spent decades researching the impact of social isolation. He even developed one of the most widely used tools in the field to assess isolation.

[Dr. Jim Lubbon]

There are a number of different theories as to why social isolation has this deleterious effect on health status. One is that people who have good social contacts are more apt to have support when they need it or get to the doctor when they need it, and so forth. There's another theory is that it encourages us to engage in better health practices and avoid bad ones. So for the most part, if you choose your friends and your family well, they will encourage you to identify good health practices and pursue them. There is even one quote that Julianne Holt has done from a MEGA study where she suggests that social isolation is the equivalent of smoking 15 cigarettes a day. So it's on par with smoking in terms of a health risk.

[Frances Leese]

But Jim doesn't just study isolation from an academic distance. At 80 years old, he's lived through the very transitions that put so many older adults at risk. Retirement loss, changing identity. He knows what it feels like from the inside.

[Dr. Jim Lubbon]

I retired from Boston College in 2018.

[Frances Leese]

Both of Jim's children live in New York City now. So after years in Boston, it felt like time to start a new chapter closer to family.

[Dr. Jim Lubbon]

So it just didn't make sense for me to stay up in Boston with my family down here in the New York City area. So neither my wife nor I probably would have chosen New York City. We still root for the Red Sox.

[Frances Leese]

But it's a conflict of interest there, huh?

[Dr. Jim Lubbon]

And my grandson is a Yankee, and I don't know how that happened, but as you get older, you have to weigh all those kind of trade offs. So moving to Brooklyn, New York, in order to be closer to my family strengthened my family networks. But I had to then put my energies into starting to rebuild my friendship networks, because I think to really age well, you need both family and friends.

[Frances Leese]

So Jim did something simple but brave. He set out to find new friendships.

[Dr. Jim Lubbon]

One of the things that I've done since I moved here to Brooklyn, there are three other gentlemen in my age group, and I'll let you take a guess at what that age group is. But my daughter calls us the gentleman's lunch bunch, because we get together maybe every three weeks.

[Frances Leese]

I like that name.

[Dr. Jim Lubbon]

And have lunch together and schmooze and talk about different issues. Just as we kind of need to be cognizant of having the Social Security and the retirement accounts and so forth, we ought to think about building the social capital that we're going to need in retirement. And that's sort of what we've been talking about, is how does one do an assessment of what their social needs are and their social capacities, and then go ahead and do something about it to where they've identifying some weakness to maybe try to build some strengths there.

[Frances Leese]

But beyond the emotional support, our social ties do something even more remarkable. They help us live healthier lives. They buffer stress, nudge us toward better habits. And maybe most surprising, they might actually boost our immune system.

[Dr. Jim Lubbon]

Other kind of causes why social isolation and loneliness are especially acute in old age has to do with other life changes. I'm a widower. My wife passed away in 2022. But more than a year ago, I got diagnosed with a fairly severe form of cancer and had to undergo robotic Whipple surgery. But fortunately, because of my family and my friends, I'm able to bounce back. And now I'm feeling strong again. I could have easily been wiped out, but it was my family, my friends, that got me going again and got me out for a walk. And like I jokingly said, if all I had the strength was to go up two blocks to sit on a park bench so I'd have enough strength to walk back home, that was worth it. So I think we're all in this together, but we have to realize that we're all in this together and try to weave that social fabric that allows for all of us to provide a safety net and support for one another, because we all will encounter the slings and arrows of life. It's just a matter of when and how much.

[Frances Leese]

Yeah. And it's better to, you know, have community and networks and support system to help you get through that, because just like you said, you're able to bounce back during such a difficult time, which could have been different for someone else who did not have that social network. Right. That connection, which I believe helps us to just thrive regardless of what age we're in.

[Dr. Jim Lubbon]

I could definitely see that by having these social ties, having this neighbor who would regularly check in on me and talk to me about things, this retired physician who, by the way, was also going through cancer treatment. And then we could kind of give mutual support to one another of how we were both handling the chemo and the like. And every time I went in for an infusion or every time, even now, when I meet with my medical oncologist or my surgical oncologist, either my son or daughter is there with me because, in part, I don't trust my hearing, you know, to hear everything. I'm actually a disabled veteran. I lost part of my hearing when I was drafted. But to have my daughter along and my son along who take notes, or equally importantly, say, now, what did you say? Or can you clarify that? Or whatever helps us all better understand what the ramifications are and probably get it right.

[Frances Leese]

Why do you think it sometimes gets overlooked? Because, you know, just like you said, we often focus on our physical or financial health, but we tend to overlook some of these social connections.

[Dr. Jim Lubbon]

Yeah, we've often taken that aspect for granted in our society. We've oftentimes have suggested that isn't society's responsibility, but individual responsibility. We have the myth here in America of the rugged individualist who supposedly takes care of themselves, but quite honestly, the Beatles were right. We get by with a little help from our friends in our family and so forth. We really are very dependent upon the social milieu in which we live and how we can help out one another. So I think the more we realize that we humans are social animals and that we really do need to nurture our social ties as well as to be a nurturer of other people's social ties, I think the better the world's going to be and the better we're going to be accordingly.

[Frances Leese]

I'M wondering, how do you think we can start to shift that narrative? Because we do deeply need each other.

[Dr. Jim Lubbon]

I think part of it is to recognize in our own lives certain deficiencies and also to maybe join clubs, organizations, and that includes church or synagogue or temple or mosque, you know, where you find some camaraderie and you can support one another. So now the sociologists would. And I mentioned in one of my articles the difference between primary social groups and secondary social groups. Primary social groups are family, friends and neighbors. But as we get older, we sometimes disengage from the secondary social groups, whether that be religious groups or maybe while we were working, we belonged to a union or we belong to a professional organization. We sort of disengage from those, and we don't think about the need to maybe replace those and so forth. I still go to the Gerontological Society of America because not only am I interested in some of the research, but some of my professional friends are there. So we get together once a year to at least, say, get an update of how things are doing and so forth and so on.

[Frances Leese]

With that being said, if someone's really concerned about maybe an older adult in their life, what are some signs that person might be feeling isolated or disconnected? Because sometimes it's not very obvious. A person might not say that they're lonely, but it may show up in really subtle ways.

[Dr. Jim Lubbon]

Yeah, and I think that's one of the reasons I developed this scale that I developed. And maybe I could read some of the questions from that scale, because it's one that's commonly used now in the field.

[Frances Leese]

It's called the Lubbon Social Network Scale, a tool researchers and healthcare providers use to measure social isolation. You'll find it in places like hospitals, senior living communities, even your doctor's office.

[Dr. Jim Lubbon]

Considering all the people to whom you are related, either by birth, marriage, or legal arrangement, how many relatives do you see or hear from at least once a month? So then they can give a number. How many relatives do you feel close to that you can call on them for help? And then the third question is, how many relatives do you feel at ease with that you can talk about private matters. So those are like three dimensions where we go through and ask about relatives. Now, I have a similar set of three questions where considering all your friends, including those who live in your neighborhood, where then I repeat those three items. So that gets at the functionality, if you will, of what social networks are for. You have to see someone at least once a month for them to be considered active and Then you have to feel like there's people out there that you can call on for help. And that sort of instrumental help, as opposed to the other question, was sort of getting at the emotional help. In other words, you can talk to about private matters and discuss things. And I feel my research seems to have shown that friendships are different than familial relationships, and you need both. I design these questions so that the nurse or the social worker doing an assessment of their clients could start to better understand where there might be some deficiencies in the social network. And I think what we as older people need to do is to say, okay, just like we need to exercise and we need to be conscious of our diet and everything, we need to also be conscious of maintaining strong social ties and nurturing those.

[Frances Leese]

If you could leave people with just one takeaway about the role of connections as we age, what would it be?

[Dr. Jim Lubbon]

As you consider all the different facets of aging, well, like your physical health, your gene pool, having good doctors and so forth, social connections may turn out to be one of the most important, if not the most important, facet of successful aging because it opens the doors to times when you need extra help, and it also opens the doors to joyful experiences and allow for you to grow and continue to develop yourself. It's been wonderful to spend time with my grandchildren now and to watch them grow and develop and to meet the grandchildren of my friends. So I think any delusion that we ever may have had of the rugged individualists was pure delusion. And that the real joy in life has to be with recognizing and accepting, accepting the fact that we are social animals and we need to live in a social community. And that community has to be supportive. And quite honestly, there's no room for hate in that community. We have to support one another and open the doors to facilitate other people's growth and development. One of the greatest joys I've had as a professor are not necessarily some of my publications that have gotten knowledge, but seeing some of my students succeed and go on and develop, because I know that then the things that were important to me are now being propagated even well beyond my time period on this earth. You really have to weave that social fabric or else life isn't going to be as good as it could be.

[Frances Leese]

Yeah, it's that ripple effect, right? Well, thank you for your time, Jim.

[Dr. Jim Lubbon]

Well, thank you very much. It's been an enjoyable conversation. So you take care and stay healthy now.

[Frances Leese]

Likewise.

[Dr. Jim Lubbon]

And as I usually say, stay connected.

[Frances Leese]

Stay connected. I love that. Yeah. Stay connected. Stay connected. What does that really mean to you? Maybe it's reaching out to a friend you haven't spoken to in months, the one whose name you keep scrolling past, thinking I should call them. Maybe it's sitting with an older relative just a little longer, not because you have to, but because their stories carry pieces of your own history you didn't even know were missing. Maybe it's showing up for a coffee with someone who's lonely, even when your calendar says you're too busy. Or sending a message that simply says, you crossed my mind today. Because connection isn't just nice. It's vital, as essential to our health as the food we eat, the sleep we get, the air we breathe. So call that person. Join that group. Start the lunch bunch. Find your walking partner. Build your heart. Friends, you don't need the perfect words, just your presence. We grow in each other's company. That's the real medicine. And someone out there is hoping you'll go first. I'm Frances Lees, and this has been Turning Points. Thank you for listening. Visit globe.com turningpoints one word for more information on mental health care and resources. Turningpoints is produced by Tufts Health Plan, a 32 health company, and the Studio B team at Boston Globe Media in partnership with POD People. With a commitment to personal service, Tufts Health Plan provides quality coverage and dedicated support to help guide and empower healthier lives. Stay healthy in mind and spirit.