B (3:35)

So first we look at parenting as a course. You have a bunch of parents that are doing a great job in the classroom, but you also have those parents that are skipping class because the subject may be difficult, the subject may be confusing. There may be some stuff at home that we are not aware of. The goal of a father's uplift is to find out where those students are who are skipping class. Right. So as such, when we think about the context of therapy and coaching and advocacy from the framework in which we provide it, the goal is to find out where those students are, make sure that they have the resources and support necessary to come back into the parenting classroom. And that consists of therapy, one on one guidance where we're teaching men how to parent their inner child within. Because I look at parenting as this concept. Well, if I could teach a man how to parent himself, he would naturally be a parent to another child. So it's all about getting to know your trauma, getting to know how to love and nurture yourself so you can stay in the parenting class. The other piece is coaching more of those tangible needs such as housing, reduction of child support payments because you may be poor substance use related issues. How do we make sure that we have coaches to guide them through those, I would say, troubling circumstances. But also coach has experienced some of those situations themselves so they can serve as a role model and a navigation support. So I believe with those things combined, in addition to group supports, where the men have an opportunity to be in the same classroom with other men that may have skipped the course for various reasons. We believe we're creating that holistic village that they need. So that's what our therapy, our approach to really servicing the men that we're privileged to work with consists of those dynamics.

A (5:07)

I really like the metaphor of the classroom because it really is like you can't embody something that you haven't learned and you can't skip ahead. Right. You can't. Yeah, you have to come back and get those lessons. And I think the way that you described it really is kind of like a shame free kind of way. Like, what did we miss? How can we get these skills? And how can we get your life moving forward as soon as possible once you learn skills? So when we talk about family based therapy so that our listeners can have a better understanding, is one person the patient and the others are to support, or is it more like couples therapy where the therapist is looking at the whole unit?

B (5:44)

Yeah. So for us, the father is the initial person that we want to make sure that we could get him engaged, support him with being the best version of himself that he can be. Now, that also consists of other members of the family. For instance, if we're working with our dads behind bars, there's other members in the family, in the community that are in need of support while we're working with the dad behind bars. So it's different circumstances, different situations, but everything for us starts with the dad. We believe we can get the dad to show up in various settings with supporting the family in some way in his absence and making sure that they have what they need. So everything starts with the father, but essentially it ends up touching various other members of the family, given the father's location or circumstances.

A (6:29)

Yeah. So essentially wrapping your arms around the fathers and then seeing what comes up in the process and triaging multiple avenues at the same time.

B (6:40)

Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's the goal.

A (6:42)

Yeah. So your journey to founding Father's Uplift is deeply personal. Can you share more about your own experiences growing up without a father and how that shaped the organization?

B (6:52)

Yeah. You know, Father's Uplift for me was a personal therapeutic journey. But I tell people all the time, you know, my goal wasn't to be a social worker. The LSAT several times and I couldn't get into law school. And the same day that I was laid off from my job was the same day I received my acceptance letter to Simmons University School of Social Work. It was the only school of social work that accepted me out of all the law schools that I applied to. So once I received that acceptance letter, I am a man of faith. I believe that was God's answer to me to make that move to Boston. And the rest is history. It started off as a Albert Schweizer fellowship project at the Dimmick Community Health center when I was meeting with dads weekly who were in a sober home. And I learned from that process that none of those dads imagined being absent from their kids lives. Addiction and mental health got the best of them. And I also realized that every day that we met, they would talk about their children, how Much. They love them so much, they just couldn't muster up enough courage after all the shame they experienced to pick up the phone again. So in that process, it really made me think about my own personal life, which was my father. I grew up in a household headed by a single woman, Frankie, my mother, who I love dearly, and my aunt, her sister, who came and eventually lived with us. So two women. And what I learned in that process while my father was outside the household was that it takes a village to raise a child. But the second thing that I learned when I found out why my dad was absent from my life was that no man dreams of being the deadbeat. So I think those series of meetings with the dads at the Dimmond Community Health center taught me a lot. It really confirmed that those dads always dreamed of being best parents, showing up for that parenting subject the best they could. Life happened, and it got the best of them.

A (8:35)

I can definitely relate out. I, too, wasn't raised by my biological father, and I was surrounded by a village of women. I call the people that, you know, who just sort of stepped up the chosen family, the hidden gems that kind of come in when needed. But let's face it, you know, a father figure does leave a unique imprint, and I don't think it's something that can be duplicated in a way. Right. And for men who already struggle with seeking therapy and expressing their emotions, that absence of a father for themselves can create a really deep hole impacting their overall well being. How can group therapy specifically benefit men as it relates to that absence?

B (9:14)

Yeah. You know, it's interesting when I'm talking to men behind bars and we're having this conversation, I asked the question, how many of you grew up in a household without your dad? And the majority of them always raised their hand. That's one consistent thing that happens across the board, is that a lot of our constituents, mainly men of color, black and brown, who are behind bars, grew up in households without their fathers. Right. It's a harsh reality, but it's true. Indeed. And for us, we believe that when they see that, hey, I, too, was in the same situation as you, it creates community. It creates a sense of belonging to. And for us to have that reinforcement, that peer support in a group setting is transformative. You know, many of the men that entered our program together are still family members today. When you have a village man, generations change and lives are transformed. So the best we can, we try to facilitate those opportunities for them to create those experiences at various levels while talking about your emotions, but also talking about that inner child that you've experienced from not having a father around, but also other things that may have impacted your life significantly. So, you know, what I real about men is that when we get deep in person with a group of men that really care and trust us, great things will happen. For me, when I think about the group of people that raised me, it was. It was at a church called the Midway Missionary Baptist Church. And I remember being baptized with a group of other young men and women that were with me. And typically, during baptism ceremonies, the churches are filled to capacity. And I remember the pastor stood in the middle of the hour with his black robe. He said, hey, you know, children, come to the front. We all came to the front. And he went one by one, and I was the last person to be called. And I remember, you know, there was a bunch of people that stood for each of the children that were before me. But I was like, hey, Charles, it's kind of embarrassing. Hey, your mom's the artist, but she's going to be the only one that stands for you today. And the pastor got to me, and then it was my time for him to ask this question with the family's young man, please stand. My mother stood by herself, as I knew she would. And then he looked at me again with this tear in his eye, this strong look, and he said, you know, again, I'm going to ask this question again to this congregation with the family, this young man, please stand. And the entire church stood for me. So when you talk about the power of a group, the power of community, people that stand for you, like we're creating these many communities of men that are standing for one another. But the whole church stood for me, and they made me the man, the husband, and the father I am today. And I feel that if it wasn't for that group of people, I wouldn't be where I am today. And I want other men in our community to say the same thing. If it wasn't for these group of men that I've had lifelong relationships with, I wouldn't be here today. It ain't about father's uplift. It ain't about the clinicians, it ain't about the coaches, about these group of men that I met in this intimate setting that have similar experiences with me, that I was able to find my value because they're doing things the same way that I'm doing. They're overcoming their most deepest, darkest struggles. And that's the impact that we want to leave. We Want to create those natural communities in Boston and beyond.

A (12:02)

Yeah. I love that story because it just created a powerful visual. It almost felt like that was the seed that was planted for you.

B (12:09)

Yeah, yeah.

A (12:10)

Healing happens in community. And to have other people witness your pain and to hold it in ways that nobody else has ever done, it leaves an imprint. Right. And it gives you the kind of hope that you need to sort of take just the next step and then the next step and the next step. And knowing that each step that you move, you take moving forward, whether you slip or fall, there's going to be that community right there. And having that kind of security really empowers, really you to just keep trying. And for those who don't have that, it's just so much harder.

B (12:43)

You get me fired up right now. Wow. I just had a moment, so.

A (12:49)

Yeah, no, because it's. It's something I can relate to, being very transformative in my life. And so I know the power of having somebody on speed dial where you can just call and. And that making all of the difference.

B (13:02)

Yeah.

A (13:03)

So I'd like to pivot to substance use disorder, something that can really fracture a family. How does family therapy help in recovery process for individuals struggling with use?

B (13:13)

So I feel like for us, when I think about substance use and we think about recovery, it's important that there's various tools in the toolbox. So I think family members, friends, are integral to individuals in recovery, specifically those that we work with or anyone that's experiencing recovery. The same way that, you know, individuals with care teams who play sports are. You know, I feel like there's a variety of people that we need to have on our care team. And I feel like there's various ways in which those care items should be delivered to the extent in which the father or the person that we're serving has various opportunities to connect and address what's going on as it relates to substance use, whatever they're currently experiencing. I believe that, you know, traditional therapy works. Right. But also exercise works, also other remedies work. If you're religious and you really believe in spiritual based practices that works. I believe a combination of those things work together. And I think that's the role of family and other members outside of the traditional therapy models is to really bring together this consortium of resources and care supports for those individuals to be able to experience at various aspects of their life. So we're all about putting various tools in people's boxes. And I believe if you're going to really encourage recovery in a very Sustainable and positive way. You have to be eclectic in your approach. And that consists of communal approaches and traditional therapeutic approaches.

A (14:40)

I think that was well said. It's an ecosystem at the end of the day. Right. It can't be done in isolation. Do you have any specific approaches that fathers uplift use to support fathers dealing with substance use?

B (14:53)

So for us, it's important to really have like spirituality and mindfulness groups for them to tap into, to really create community around their spiritual practice, whatever their spiritual practices are. You can believe in a doorknob, but that's a spiritual practice for you. Feel free to share with your community. Let's talk about that doorknob and how that doorknob benefits you, you know, so that's one way which we dig into it, really understanding what they like and what helps them. Spirituality and religion helps them. So we want to connect them to that various ways. Right. And not isolate one faith or one belief over another. I think another thing that we do which is very important, we have mindfulness opportunities and mindfulness groups. You know, one of our core leaders is really big in mindfulness and he typically interweaves mindfulness into his group approaches, but also his coaching approaches as well as his training leaders, training our ambassadors and our advocates. I think another thing that we like to do is taking therapeutic walks and connecting to nature. Sometimes you got to have those conversations out and about, and the office isn't the only good place to have those conversations. So how you take those walks, how you connect to the larger things outside of the office space. So that's some of the things that we do really listen to our population connect us to deeper aspects of who they are as human beings. Outside of that, we're exercising various approaches.

A (16:06)

I mean, I love everything that you said because I feel like one of the things that is missing in the mental health field is nurturing the spirit, so spirit self. And that could mean very different things for all types of people. But that connection, that's kind of like beyond you. How do you make sense of all of the things? Because sometimes you can't make sense of all the things and often you have to just trust the unknown in different ways. And for a lot of us, that can be very helpful in helping us to move forward. And so how do peer based therapies compare to family based therapies?

B (16:39)

I think peer based has more flexibility. Well, when we think about traditional therapy in a setting, there's a lot of red tape, right? There's a lot of things that you can and can't do. It's really big on the boundary setting. Right. It's also, how do you set that professional foundation without overstepping? I think peer based, you have more flexibility, but you also have more opportunities for you to really connect to the person in ways that your therapist may not be able to connect. But also, we like to look at peer based services as an opportunity to connect with real life experience. So when we think about our peers at Father's Uplift, many of them have graduated from the program and have experienced a similar obstacle as many of the men that we are currently serving. So the goal is to connect them to individuals that are currently in the program, to really engage in community outside of the office, to create those, like we said before, those lifelong lasting relationships. I think there's things that you can do in peer based work that you really can't do as the traditional therapist. Nonetheless, I think a combination of both can be extremely beneficial. But the peer based piece for us is that asset.

A (17:43)

Charles, you embody the idea of turning struggle into strength, right? You know how tough it can be to also find a therapist you can truly connect with. Someone who really feels like they understand your world. And I feel like your journey is an inspiration because you've taken your own experiences and turned them into a powerful purpose. And that I believe is a huge draw, maybe for the men that you help, they see someone who sort of walked a similar path, someone who's open about their struggles, who's living proof that healing is possible, and it gives them hope that they can overcome their own challenges. And I love how you have the ambassadors of men who go through the program come back and help other fathers as well. Can you share any success stories from your work that highlight the transformative power of family and peer based therapies?

B (18:25)

Wow. I think I'm speechless by your comments and I thank you for thinking of me in that way and seeing me in that light. It means the world to me and I'll be forever grateful for this opportunity to be with you, but also to hear those comments and reflect on them when I get down a little bit. I think when I think about the work that we're doing and some of those positive stories, I think about a young man named George. He had a major illness and that was one of the reasons why he was absent from his kid's life. But he overcame that and now he's a father he's always dreamed of being. He was able to fight for his daughter and get her shared custody, and now he's a leader right in the community, but also a leader in the organization. And I tell him every time. And I think this is one important. This is important for me to really tell the men that we're privileged to serve how much of a testimony they are to me, because I have the privilege of seeing hundreds of testimonies walk through our doors every year. So when I think about success stories, I think about the opportunity of being around men like George who are not only an inspiration to me, but also an inspiration to their children when they get to know them. When you can see a man get what he always dreamed of, being a father, and really do it with ease and also do it despite his struggles, that's a life changer.

A (19:36)

Yeah, I think there's George everywhere. If we could just tap into that person and give them all the access to the resources that they need, the support, and that George will come out for them.

B (19:48)

That's it. Brother George.

A (19:49)

Brother George. So as much as these services are available and accessible, what are some. Some common challenges that individuals face when starting family or peer based therapy? Maybe there's some hesitations and how do they overcome these challenges?

B (20:04)

I think one of the main things is that there's a stigma associated to therapy, to services that's being offered. It's important for us to acknowledge that the stigma exists as providers, but I think for the people receiving the services, it can also be a benefit. If you give the service an opportunity, try something that you haven't tried before. So that would be the first thing. The other challenge would be the shortage of providers. Right. There's a huge shortage of therapists of color. And I think at this point, as providers, we have to acknowledge that the shortage exists, but also not forget about providers that are coming up in schools of social work and schools of mental health and pour into them the same way that we had things poured into us. I think for the person receiving the services, I would say, hey, give people a try. You know, you may get a student in an agency, right. But that student may be a benefit to you if he's receiving the appropriate guidance. So I would say those are the two challenges, the shortage and the stigma. And I think we just both have to show a little bit more grace on both ends.

A (20:59)

And it's like, okay, let's, let's see how far we can go and if not, we'll pivot. But it's not the end of the world. Right. If the overall mission is to reconnect, re, engage and to heal, then it's worth sort of, you know, fighting for and continuing the process, the journey.

B (21:15)

That's it. That's it.

A (21:17)

Thank you so much, Charles, for joining us today and sharing all about father's uplift and all the beautiful things that you're doing over there.

B (21:24)

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

A (21:28)

So now we've heard how group and family therapy can help those with substance use imbalances. But these specific therapeutic structures can be helpful across a range of issues. Next, I chat with Gina Connor, an independently licensed clinical social worker and the owner of Flourish Therapy center, located just south of Boston. Gina has dedicated nearly nine years to the mental health field, specializing in treating eating disorders, trauma, anxiety and life transitions through individual and group therapy. But she saw a significant gap in the availability of eating disorder treatment in her area. So she decided to establish Flourish Therapy center two years ago to provide specialized individualized care both in person and virtually. She shared her insights and experiences discussing the various types of eating disorders she encounters in her practice, the structure and benefits of group therapy, and the importance of inclusive evidence based treatment approaches. Here's Gina talking about why she got inspired to focus on treating eating disorders and utilizing group therapy.

C (22:37)

I got into the field, I've been practicing now for almost nine years. Eating disorders really kind of just fell into my lap where I saw there was such a need and limited providers, especially here in the Boston area. And I did my training six years or so ago and just really found that there is such a specialty in a niche and there's a lot of comorbidities that need just specialized care. And so that's what then developed two years ago for me, starting my group practice, Flourish Therapy center, where it wasn't just a higher level of care. We wanted to have folks come in person and virtual to be able to have that individual specialized care. We have trained therapists, dietitian, and a medication prescriber as well.

A (23:18)

I love that. And so since you said that, this is much more of a niche group of folks to work with and it's not as common. What are the most common types of eating disorders?

C (23:29)

I would say in our practice here at Flourish Therapy center, we have a diverse range of eating disorders. Primarily, I would say our practice sees a lot of anorexia nervosa, bulimia nervosa, other specified feeding and eating disorder. We tend to get a lot of female presenting clients. I think it just might be our clientele, our area of where we're located as well. I think there's a lot of stigma around men seeking help for eating disorders as well because they do definitely struggle. We just don't see that as much here at our practice.

A (23:59)

In my work, I often host retreats, and one of the most profound things I've witnessed is the transformative power of being seen. You know, imagine having someone you know witnessing your pain not with judgment, but with pure love and understanding. For someone who grew up in an environment devoid of that kind of support, this can be life changing. And this experience is a core principle behind group therapy, which I find incredibly powerful. Gina, can you tell us more about group therapy in the context of eating disorders? What's the typical structure and how does it specifically benefit those struggling with this specific diagnosis?

C (24:35)

So first, start off and say group therapy can be in various settings. There's higher levels of care, which is, I would say, a little bit more common for those going through eating disorder recovery. Then there's the outpatient setting, which we're at, where the groups are typically structured. It's usually a closed group. So that means it could be a set of six to eight weeks of a group therapy. It's usually skill based. So by that we're teaching those struggling with different ways to cope, Whether it's using dialectical behavioral therapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, really just practicing that distress tolerance and using the skills and learning them and having that accountability with the group members and the group leader as well. And then my favorite part of group therapy, which I think you're talking about, Frances, is that connection. Connection is so important. You know, those who are struggling with eating disorders or other struggles and challenges as well often face isolation and feeling very alone. And so that group therapy atmosphere can actually bring those folks together and have a sense of belonging.

A (25:35)

What are some of the common challenges that you see in group therapy for a lot of the individuals that you work with, and how do you help them overcome some of these challenges?

C (25:44)

I would say one of the biggest challenges for eating disorder groups is comparison from what my clients have shared with me, especially if the group is in person. Right. If they're struggling with body image, they often can compare to other bodies, appearance related struggles as well. And so that's something that we bring into the topics and conversations. Another struggle is triggers. Groups have rules and certain groups don't. You can't share certain topics. However, things will come up and everyone has their own triggers. So that's something that is really not on the group members. It's really on the group leader to redirect that and hold that safe space for those members who are struggling.

A (26:21)

Can you share a little bit more of the specific techniques and methodologies that you use in the group therapy for eating disorders. You mentioned dbt. Yeah.

C (26:30)

So for eating disorder recovery and treatment within group therapy, we often use cognitive behavioral therapy and dbt, which I'll get into in a moment. So cognitive behavioral therapy really is a form of skill based therapy. So it helps us retrain the way that our brain thinks. Often those who struggle with eating disorders or anxiety disorders, we tend to struggle with negative beliefs about ourself, negative beliefs about the world. So CBT is skills to help us really reality test, fact check what we're actually going through. And there's often homework assigned with that as well for cognitive behavioral therapy. And then there's dialectical behavioral therapy, which is similar, although it's teaching us a little bit more how to sit with discomfort and not distract entirely, not run away. It's distress tolerance and interpersonal effectiveness skills. So that's really teaching us to slow down, challenge our eating disorder urges or behaviors and really learn different skills to sit with that discomfort.

A (27:27)

Confronting your triggers is uncomfortable. However, belonging to a community with a diagnosis as a label can be challenging too. Yeah, I think we underestimate the power of the belonging. Right. Often people who are diagnosed with these disorders is because of that isolation or the withdrawal or the lack of acceptance. And you'll be surprised how quickly transformation can happen when you are in a group of people who can relate to your story and see you for the first time, certainly. So you strongly believe in the practice of self care. That would make sense with sort of this, this group. How do you incorporate self care into your therapeutic practices? And what self care tips do you give to your clients to manage some of these things? Especially because, you know, a lot of the work does happen outside of group therapy, outside of individual counseling. How do you help them sort of integrate some of these lessons?

C (28:24)

Those who struggle with eating disorders or some other life challenges often don't believe that they deserve to engage in self care. So that's a really big topic that we often talk about in therapy and in group therapy around how can we, first of all, we define what is self care. It's not just going to get your nails done and hair done. It's about slowing down and teaching what interests you. And it could be as simple as saying no to somebody or taking a nap. And so that's something that we usually at the end of my groups, we go around and share actually at the end of each group session, what are we doing for self care today? And again, it could be I'm taking a shower it's something that we really want to empower those struggling to work on practicing. And it usually starts very small because it's something that they have a really hard time with and can believe that it's not something that they deserve.

A (29:10)

And so, Gina, how do you take care of yourself?

C (29:13)

That's another good question. We have lots of beaches around us, and I enjoy taking walks with my dog, my son, and my family. That's something that just helps decompress me. Although I love my job and I love what I do, but it's so important to not constantly take it home with me. So I have to make sure I'm not checking my emails when I get home, not on my phone as much. And I would say the combination of those boundaries and my movement outside in nature does really help me to stay grounded.

A (29:40)

Yeah. I find that when we spend a little bit more time in nature, we really. I think we calibrate pretty quickly. But, like, it's one of those things, like, can we just make it mandatory sometimes?

C (29:53)

I know.

A (29:56)

Please. Without forcing anybody, of course. But, yeah, I just think it's such a key component to healing. How can we, as a community, sort of better support some of these individuals who are struggling with eating disorders? What do you feel is, like, the best approach to support?

C (30:13)

That's a really good question as well. I think being open. Right. And asking questions, asking people what they need as well. And it's so important because everyone has different needs. And I think just really challenging some of the societal norms that come along with eating disorders. That's something that we often talk about in group therapy is how can we challenge some of these societal norms? How can we be more inclusive? Again, whether it's health at every size, making sure the furniture is inclusive, and just really fostering that inclusivity.

A (30:44)

I think that is well put. Just less judgment, more acceptance.

C (30:49)

Yes. I think if you're considering doing a group but anxious about it, know that that's normal. And I even encourage you to just give a group a try one time. And if it's not for you, that's okay. But I strongly believe that you will feel the connection is very powerful, and you also deserve to get that support. And we're not, as humans, we're not meant to suffer alone. And sometimes we forget that, and we need those reminders. So that's something I would just encourage everyone to think about. And lastly, I have a book recommendation that I wanted to share with everyone because it's. I don't know if you've read it Frances. It's called Group by Christine Tate. It's a great book and it just encompasses a long term group and it there's a combination of humor, the power of connection, different types of therapy.

A (31:34)

That's a great recommendation. I'm going to have to add it to my list. Thank you so much Gina for joining us today and sharing your valuable insights about group therapy and eating disorders. I really feel like the listeners will have taken some valuable insights from this episode.

C (31:50)

Thank you so much Frances for hosting. I appreciate it and it was really nice to meet you.

A (31:54)

It was nice meeting you too. Eating disorders are complex, multifaceted and often hidden struggles. But if you're struggling with finding resources to tackle these issues, I hope these conversations offer some suggestions and a bit of solace. Here's what I learned. First, this was a powerful reminder that whether through family, friends or community organizations, support is incredibly important for mental health and effective parenting. Second, specialized care is crucial and understanding the nuances and providing individualized treatment plans can make a huge difference. And third, the connection and shared experiences in group and peer based therapy can be transformative. It helps individuals realize they are not alone in their struggles and fosters a supportive environment. Next, both Gina and Charles underscored the importance of self care. Whether it's through setting boundaries, engaging in nature, or practicing mindfulness, taking care of oneself is key to managing and overcoming mental health challenges. And finally, there is a need for more education and training in peer based therapies. By equipping more clinicians with the necessary skills and knowledge, we can better support those in need. As always, thanks for listening and visit globe.com turningpoints One word for more information on mental health care and resources. Turningpoints Season 4 is produced by Point32 Health, the parent company of Harvard Pilgrim Healthcare and Tufts Health Plan and the Studio B team at Boston Globe Media. In partnership with Pod People, Point 32 Health, Harvard Pilgrim Healthcare and Tufts Health Plan are committed to connecting the community to personalized solutions that empower healthier lives.