Fighting the Loneliness Epidemic and the Power of Intergenerational Friendship | S5E4

Summary

Podcast Summary

Turning Points: Navigating Mental Health
Episode: Fighting the Loneliness Epidemic and the Power of Intergenerational Friendship (S5E4)
Date: October 29, 2025
Host: Frances Leese (Tufts Health Plan | Boston Globe Media)

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Overview: The Episode’s Main Theme

This episode explores the rise of loneliness—especially among older adults—and the transformative effects of friendships that span generations. Through personal storytelling, the conversation between guests Pooja and Peter (who share a 51-year age gap) and insight from Kyle Rubedo (Executive Director, Friendship Works), the episode illustrates how intergenerational friendships provide connection, support, and wisdom, combating isolation and nurturing mental well-being.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power and Wisdom of Intergenerational Friendship

• Personal Reflection: Frances’ Aunt and the Value of Elder Wisdom (00:04)
  • Frances Leese opens by acknowledging the unique lessons and grounded wisdom she receives from her aunt, emphasizing the depth that older generations bring to friendships.
    • “Friendships with elders can be a very beautiful thing. And sometimes they carry the exact kind of wisdom we didn’t even know we were searching for.” — Frances Leese [00:49]

2. Pooja and Peter: How an Unlikely Friendship Grows

• Meeting Through Friendship Works (02:36)

  • Pooja (a professor in her 30s) and Peter (a retired teacher/consultant in his 80s) were matched via the Friendly Visitor Program.
  • Their connection—initially formed over Zoom—is described as natural and deeply rewarding.
    • “Our first hangout was over Zoom...but it felt a very natural friendship from the beginning.” — Pooja [02:51]

• Friendship as Gardening, Not Construction (03:03)

  • Peter rejects the stereotypical idea of “building” friendships, preferring a gardening metaphor:
    • “We planted the seed of a friendship in a potting soil and put that on the windowsill, watered it and weeded it...That’s a more organic way of describing friendship.” — Peter [03:03]
  • Frances underscores: “We don’t build friendships, they grow.” [03:51]

• Loneliness and the Gift of New Family (04:56)

  • Peter describes the role of his friendship network:
    • “Here are these three wonderful people who have added enormously to my quality of life and who have become members of my local extended family.” — Peter [04:56]

• Mutual Benefit and Grounding (05:38–06:26)

  • Both Peter and Pooja sought connection—Pooja, after moving neighborhoods and feeling isolated herself; Peter, seeking companionship after family moved away.
  • “Getting to know Peter has really helped me feel more grounded in the Boston community that can be so nomadic sometimes.” — Pooja [06:17]

• The Friendship Shift: From Program to Genuine Relationship (06:31–06:54)

  • Neither can identify a specific moment when the relationship became more than a program—it simply was.
    • “The friendship started as if we had known each other for decades beforehand.” — Peter [06:46]

3. Honesty, Support, and Openness

• Curiosity Across Generations (07:14–07:45)

  • Acting with open curiosity fuels their conversations and deepens the bond.
    • “The older I get, the more effectively curious I become.” — Peter [07:14]
    • “Curiosity...really drives a lot of our conversations.” — Pooja [07:45]

• Deeper Support Through Life’s Challenges (08:33–09:19)

  • Pooja explains how Peter’s nonjudgmental listening grounds her and helps her work through challenges.
  • Peter shares openly about his own history of isolation and addiction, now using his experiences to offer wisdom without judgment:
    • “There’s no need for any of us to be judgmental toward oneself, let alone other people...when I treat myself and love myself in a healthy way, that then becomes a model for the way I can befriend and love other people.” — Peter [10:18]

• Mutual Admiration and Family-Like Connection (13:10–13:32)

  • Peter celebrates Pooja’s academic work and their ability to weave Friendship Works into meaningful life events.
  • “Peter is a friend. Like all of my friends, Friendship Works is more than a program.” — Pooja [12:51]
  • The dynamic has truly become “family” for both [13:28].

4. Finding Time and Value in Friendship

• Making It Work with Busy Schedules (13:39–14:10)

  • Pooja reassures listeners that even one hour per week is “doable” and yields immense emotional rewards.
    • “Even just the basic, straightforward one hour a week feels very doable. And it’s so much more rewarding than just that one hour.” — Pooja [13:47]

• The Emotional Wealth of Connection (14:10–14:46)

  • “We wear this relationship like a glove. It fits so perfectly...there’s an afterglow. And it makes me happy...this really is a kind of wealth that goes into our souls.” — Peter [14:10]
  • Both describe an increased sense of joy and well-being from their ongoing friendship.

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Friendship Works: Organizational Solutions to Loneliness

1. The Mission and Scale (15:56–17:50)

• Kyle Rubedo describes Friendship Works’ mission:
  • Combatting loneliness and isolation among older adults through personal, intergenerational friendship.
  • Loneliness is distinguished from social isolation—loneliness being a feeling, isolation being an environmental lack of connection.
    • “For the past 41 years, Friendship Works has been incredibly dedicated...to simply using the power of friendship and connection...” — Kyle Rubedo [16:44–17:45]
  • The issue is vast—about a quarter to a third of older adults report loneliness/isolation [17:50].

2. Why Maintaining Connection Gets Harder With Age (18:07–20:01)

• Post-retirement, bereavement, mobility/health changes, and dispersed families all erode social networks.
• Social peaks are often in youth/young adulthood; social connections often decline after that.

3. Friendship Works Programs and Innovations (20:10–22:18)

• Friendly Visiting: Weekly in-person or virtual meetups focusing on conversation and companionship.

• Medical Escort: Volunteers help older adults attend medical appointments—improving overall health access.

• Pet Pals and Music Works: Bringing pets and music into housing communities to spark joy, interaction, and connection.

  “What starts a little bit as a relational experience...bleeds into a straight up friendship where...I’m just friends with Jane and I go talk with Jane every Tuesday afternoon.” — Kyle Rubedo [21:52]

4. The Tangible and Emotional Benefits (22:27–25:01)

• Reliability: Older adults anticipate and cherish their regular friendly visits.
• Health Impact: Volunteers help ensure medical appointments are kept.
• Joy and Energy: Intergenerational friendships bring older adults energy and a sense of purpose; volunteers gain wisdom, connection, and often honor their own loved ones.

5. Mental Health Impact (25:11–26:06)

• Emotional Support: Social engagement prevents despair and can motivate people to reengage with life outside their immediate surroundings.

  “[A participant] expressed that she had not left her apartment for about 18 months prior to being connected to this volunteer...having a volunteer...encouraged her to get outside, move around, and have these conversations...” — Kyle Rubedo [25:41]

6. Breaking Age-Based Stereotypes (26:06–27:26)

• Friendship enables deeper appreciation of elders’ full life stories and wisdom.
  • “I think by forging these relationships with intergenerational volunteers, just by nature, it helps to break down those myths and stereotypes.” — Kyle Rubedo [27:22]

7. Cultural Perspectives and Policy Possibilities (27:26–28:39)

• The U.S. often lacks connected multigenerational living; new housing policies in Boston may encourage such bonds.

8. Invitation to Volunteer and Build Bridges (28:39–29:36)

• Kyle’s invitation:
  • Start small, know the commitment is manageable, and be open to unexpected rewards.
    • “I challenge folks to know that the outcome will be very different than what they expect going in.” — Kyle Rubedo [29:16]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We don’t build friendships, they grow.” — Frances Leese [03:51]
• “The older I get, the more effectively curious I become.” — Peter [07:14]
• “Heaven help my neighbor if I treated them the way I treat myself. So I’m gradually learning...when I treat myself and love myself in a healthy way, that then becomes a model for the way I can befriend and love other people.” — Peter [10:18]
• “This really is a kind of wealth that goes into our souls.” — Peter [14:10]
• “Friendship Works is more than a program...just truly growing a relationship as a part of everyday life.” — Pooja [12:51]
• “What starts a little bit as a relational experience...bleeds into a straight up friendship...” — Kyle Rubedo [21:52]
• “I challenge folks to know that the outcome will be very different than what they expect going in.” — Kyle Rubedo [29:16]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:04–01:24: Frances Leese on elder wisdom and intergenerational bonds
• 02:36–06:26: Pooja and Peter’s friendship origin and evolution
• 07:14–10:18: Deepening the friendship through curiosity, empathy, and personal challenges
• 12:10–14:46: The emotional wealth and “afterglow” of these friendships
• 15:56–20:01: Kyle Rubedo on loneliness, organizational mission, and why connection declines with age
• 20:10–22:18: Overview of Friendship Works programs and models
• 22:27–25:01: Tangible and intangible benefits for participants
• 25:11–26:06: Mental health and emotional impact
• 26:13–29:36: Overcoming ageism, cultural perspectives, policy, and invitation to get involved

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Closing Encouragement

Frances Leese reminds listeners that action is simple:
“Call that older relative you’ve been meaning to check in on. Look up volunteer opportunities in your neighborhood. Start a conversation with someone from a different generation...” [30:32]

The episode ends by celebrating the quiet heroism of taking the first step towards genuine, cross-generational connection.

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Resources

For more on mental health care and intergenerational programs, visit globe.com/turningpoints (as mentioned at the episode close).

Produced by Tufts Health Plan and Boston Globe Media in partnership with POD People.

Transcript

[Frances Leese]

Some of the most important lessons I've ever learned didn't come from school, books or therapy. They came from my aunt while she's cooking delicious stew and telling stories from Haiti. My aunt is what you'd call a tough cookie, and she had to be. She immigrated to Boston from Haiti, raised three kids on her own, and then added me into the mix, too. When I visit her now, I'll spend the whole day, three, four, sometimes five hours just sitting with her, listening to all her stories. We'll jump 30 years into the past, then 10 years into the future while she's stirring that pot of stew, telling me about life back home and reminding me of things I didn't know I needed to hear. My aunt has lived through every kind of turmoil you can imagine and still managed to build a stable, grounded life. She's the kind of person I want to emulate. Every conversation with her reminds me what real integrity looks like. So now I see my aunt as a dear friend, somebody that I can connect to, get guidance from. So friendships with elders can be a very beautiful thing. And sometimes they carry the exact kind of wisdom we didn't even know we were searching for.

[Kyle Rubedo]

Foreign.

[Frances Leese]

I'm Frances Leese, and this week on Turning Points, we're talking about friendships that bridge the gap between generations, the kind that stretches across decades, yet feel deeply natural. You'll hear from two friends with a 51 year age difference who've built something truly meaningful and unexpected. And I also sat down with the executive director of Friendship Works, a nonprofit based in Greater Boston that's on a mission to combat loneliness among older adults through connection and companionship.

[Pooja]

My name is Pooja. I have lived in Boston for about 10 years. I am a professor and a good friend of Peter's. Peter and I have known each other for about two, two and a half years.

[Peter]

I'm retired, believe it or not, but my background has been in teaching and in management consulting, building fiberglass boats and several other industries. So I've become a floater, a generalist, and that's kind of fun. So now I have the freedom to concentrate on doing volunteer work, which delights me.

[Frances Leese]

So how did the two of you meet?

[Peter]

Friendship Works did a beautiful job of spotting our shared interests and introduced, as Pooja often Sundays, we're like two peas in a pod.

[Pooja]

Our first hangout was over Zoom, which went really well, I think, just getting to know each other, of course, sharing some of those interests. But it felt very. A very natural friendship from the beginning.

[Peter]

That's right. Which is remarkable. I used to think about building friendships. But then that conjures up a memory of those grainy black and white movies of the girders, the Empire State Building as they were constructing it. And that's too rigid and mechanistic. The idea of the Latin word agricola is more promising. So this is more like being a farmer or a gardener, where we planted the seed of a friendship in a potting soil and put that on the windowsill, watered it and weeded it and so forth. That's a better, more organic way of describing friendship.

[Frances Leese]

We don't build friendships, they grow. This metaphor captures something essential about how relationships flourish. Not through force or rigid planning, but through patience, care, and the right conditions. For Peter and Pooja, those conditions came from the Friendly Visitor Program at Friendship Works, a simple initiative that became the foundation for something unexpectedly meaningful.

[Interviewer/Host]

What led you to get connected with the Friendly Visitor Program?

[Peter]

Let me see. July 1st of 2025 was my 10th anniversary of having contacted Friendship Works. I found I needed somebody to walk and talk with me so we could become members of the peripatetic school of philosophers in present day, rather than in ancient Athens.

[Frances Leese]

Peter has had a few walking buddies over the years. Each time, he's welcomed them into his little corner of the world, sharing the same familiar routes, the same neighborhood stories. And slowly, something deeper begins to take root.

[Peter]

Here are these three wonderful people who have added enormously to my quality of life and who have become members of my local extended family. Because what blood relatives I have not outlived reside up north, down south, in the Midwest, or in the far West. And so we don't get to see each other very often. We keep in touch mainly by email and phone and first class mail. So this has really become a dynamic family.

[Frances Leese]

Now, Pooja, what pulled you toward volunteering.

[Interviewer/Host]

At that time in your life?

[Pooja]

I joined friendship works about two or three years ago. I've been in Boston for 10 years and I moved to Brookline, which was my fourth neighborhood in Boston in 10 years. Having just moved to Brookline, and with the pandemic kind of wrapping up, I really felt a little isolated as well. And I've always loved volunteering. I'm just so fortunate that we got matched up. We hit it off right away. Even though Peter and I have a 51 year age difference, I think we have so much to talk about, and I just love our conversations. And getting to know Peter has really helped me feel more grounded in the Boston community that can be so nomadic sometimes. And Peter has become one of my dearest friends here.

[Interviewer/Host]

I love the connection, and I echo the same sentiment.

[Frances Leese]

So do you remember when this started.

[Interviewer/Host]

To feel like more than a program? When did it shift into a real friendship? Was there, like, a specific moment that made you feel like, okay, this is actually very different?

[Pooja]

I can't think of a particular instance. So, Peter, can you think of a moment?

[Peter]

Not really. The friendship started as if we had known each other for decades beforehand.

[Frances Leese]

An authentic connection sparked almost immediately. What brought them together wasn't just kindness. It was curiosity. They didn't try to change each other. They asked questions. They explored the world through each other's lens. Different generations, different experiences, same openness.

[Peter]

The fact that both of us are curious, although we think of babies and young children as being curious, the fact of the matter is that this carries through to old age. And what I'm finding is that the older I get, the more effectively curious I become.

[Interviewer/Host]

Curiosity is such a powerful characteristic to lean into as you journey through this thing called life. It really helps nullify a lot of things when you're just curious about stuff.

[Pooja]

That curiosity really drives a lot of our conversations when we get together, we zoom. Every week. Peter has looked into something, found a YouTube video, sends me some YouTube videos. I watch them and we chat about them. Or I found a fun news article or a meme or a website that I can send to Peter and we can chat about it as well.

[Frances Leese]

But friendship isn't just about curiosity or swapping memes. Real connection asks more of us. It asks for honesty. It asks for presence. And sometimes it asks us to sit with someone through the hard stuff. That's exactly what Peter and Pooja discovered when life stopped being easy and their friendship became something deeper.

[Pooja]

Peter has been very patient and helpful in listening to me. So sometimes when there's something, you know, that just kind of. I wish I had approached it in a different way. Peter's been really helpful in just bouncing ideas off with me, not even necessarily giving advice. But Peter and I have really bonded, I think, for me, over some conversations about my own personal challenges in life. Peter always helps me feel a bit grounded and helps me think through, you know, here's this first thing I can tackle, or have you thought about kind of dropping that thing off your plate? And so sometimes those conversations about what's genuinely bothering me that week really means a lot to me.

[Frances Leese]

And what about you, Peter?

[Peter]

One of the reasons that we're so comfortable with each other is that we feel safe. Neither of us is judging judgmental toward the other. In retrospect, I now am realizing that I was raised in a family which was very much like a small cult. My father cast himself, was an ultra narcissist and a control freak. And there was a time during my alcoholic drinking when one day I realized with horror that my heart had become petrified, turned to stone, and I couldn't even feel affection for members of my immediate family. And so that was a wake up call. And so I got sober. And what started as letting go of addiction in one area became an open sesame to a whole new quality of life. And now all the terrible things that happened, the traumata and the lessons learned from those helped me to be more responsive to other people and to realize there's no need for any of us to be judgmental toward oneself, let alone other people. This old teaching, love thy neighbor as thyself. Heaven help my neighbor if I treated them the way I treat myself. So I'm gradually learning that that turned around means that when I treat myself and love myself in a healthy way, that then becomes a model for the way I can befriend and love other people and behave accordingly.

[Interviewer/Host]

I think that's beautiful, Peter.

[Frances Leese]

And what makes it beautiful is that.

[Interviewer/Host]

You have those years of wisdom and experience to be able to say, hey, you know, you can speak directly from that heart space because you have had that experience where some of us who may be a little bit younger haven't had that life experience yet. So it's hard for us to make that connection. And so I think with that curiosity of course, and that willingness and that openness allows Pooja to sort of connect to that and maybe make different decisions in her life. So that wisdom, that wisdom is priceless.

[Peter]

It's remarkable. Pooja also has far more book learning than I have. She has earned her Ph.D. as have nine out of the 10 of the of the teachers and researchers who contributed to her second book.

[Frances Leese]

And like a good friend, Peter is always ready to cheer on his friend Pooja.

[Pooja]

Thank you for mentioning Peter. Part of the launch of my second book also involved friendship works.

[Interviewer/Host]

What's the title of your book, Pooja?

[Pooja]

Oh, Peter has it. Can you reach it here? My second book is called Smart Teaching, Stronger Learning. My first book is called Powerful Teaching, Unleash the Science of Learning. Peter is listed in the acknowledgments. He was with me from the beginning of the second book. We used the launch of the book as a fundamental fundraiser for friendship works. Being able to incorporate friendship works into like weaving it in everyday life for me has been so much fun. And that feels like it goes beyond a typical volunteer experience. Peter is a friend. Like all of my friends, Friendship Works is more than a program. I've. I have tears in my eyes. Bringing a friend into my life, that. That is just a part of my everyday being as opposed to a one time volunte or a volunteer experience with people my age is just truly building and not building. Sorry. Truly just growing a relationship as a part of everyday life for me.

[Interviewer/Host]

It just sounds like family. Just describing family. Yeah.

[Pooja]

Well. And Peter, you like to say this is your extended family, right?

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah.

[Frances Leese]

So, Pooja, for people in their 30s.

[Interviewer/Host]

And 40s, juggling a lot, what would you say to someone who wants meaningful friendships but feels like there's no time for them?

[Pooja]

I can empathize with that in terms of time. I love that Friendship Works is very practical. Peter and I meet on Zoom for one hour a week. But even just the basic, straightforward one hour a week feels very doable. And it's so much more rewarding than just that one hour.

[Peter]

We wear this relationship like a glove. It fits so perfectly. And what I is that particularly after one of our meetings or phone calls or whatever, there's an afterglow. And it makes me happy. I'm poor as a church mouse in terms of money. This really is a kind of wealth that goes into our souls.

[Pooja]

I would love to encourage more people my age to hang out with a buddy and get a walking buddy. It's so wonderful to spend time with you. I absolutely love it.

[Peter]

It's mutual, it's delightful. And as I was saying before, there's an afterglow every time we meet or we send each other a message like an email or whatever. I find that it warms my heart, it lifts my mood, and I feel better physically as well as emotionally and spiritually.

[Pooja]

Thanks for mentioning my books. That was very kind of you.

[Peter]

Want to get the word out?

[Kyle Rubedo]

Yeah.

[Frances Leese]

Peter and Pooja's story shows what's possible when we approach intergenerational friendships with openness, not assumptions. It's a relationship built on mutual curiosity, care, and respect. But what does this kind of connection look like at scale? What happens when communities intentionally invest in bridging generations? To find out, I spoke with Kyle Rubedo, executive director of Friendship Works, an organization dedicated to reducing isolation and building meaningful relationships across ages.

[Interviewer/Host]

So tell us a little bit about the heart behind Friendship Works. What's the deeper need that you're trying to meet?

[Kyle Rubedo]

I think the deeper need of Friendship Works is at its core really creating connections and the sense of community and knowing that isolation and loneliness is incredibly prevalent in our community across all races, age, ethnicities. But our focus is, for the past 41 years, really digging into and supporting older adults who are experiencing social isolation and loneliness, and finding opportunities, such as the volunteer work that we do, to really reduce that, address it, and build the connections that we feel are important to both support older adults as well as strengthen our communities.

[Interviewer/Host]

And so can you paint us a picture of what loneliness really looks like.

[Frances Leese]

Day to day for older adults?

[Interviewer/Host]

What are they carrying or navigating that people often miss?

[Kyle Rubedo]

I think it's first important to note that loneliness is very different than isolation or social isolation. Loneliness tends to be a feeling where isolated is more environmental. You don't have a lot of connections and resources. So loneliness can present itself in many different ways. One of the core principles of Friendship Works is really creating those connections, working with older adults, engaging volunteers in this intergenerational kind of vibe that we're trying to create. And for the past 41 years, friendship works has been incredibly dedicated and committed to simply using the power of friendship and connection and conversations to break down those barriers, whether it's focused on loneliness or social isolation.

[Interviewer/Host]

So if we zoom out, how widespread is this? How many people are we really talking about?

[Kyle Rubedo]

Most people say that a quarter to a third of older adults experience loneliness and or social isolation. And about a quarter of older adults over the age of 65 experience social isolation or loneliness.

[Frances Leese]

Why does it get harder to keep.

[Interviewer/Host]

Friendships close or even make new ones as we get older, especially past our 50s and 60s? What do you think is happening beneath the surface there?

[Kyle Rubedo]

I think there's a lot of environmental factors that contribute to it. It could be a change in employment, right? So you recently are retired and you lose that connection through employment. You may have had a spouse pass away, and that spouse was your best friend for many years. Your health may have changed to a point where you be as mobile and get outside as frequently as you could before. Your family members may have moved away, or your social network has moved away or unfortunately passed on. And that chips away at that social fabric and that network that you have. If you look at it in a traditional sense, right. The trajectory of engagement and your network almost peaks at a high school, or if you go to high school, then college, those are your peak kind of social connections, or at least the ways in which the most amount of impact or networking that you have. And then it kind of is almost on a downward trend in the sense of then you transition to a workplace you may have five or six co workers you really vibe with and you hang out with socially. Then you may get married and your partner brings in their social network. So it flattens out a little bit. But then after that, everyone has busy lives and lives change and situations change. So it's very situational. And we also need to be very, very intentional in focusing, building those networks and using the tools and resources that we have to do that. And one resource that Friendship Works focuses on is this intergenerational mix of recruiting volunteers, not all, but most who are young professionals in encouraging them and engaging them to volunteer, partly to help build that connection and sense of community.

[Interviewer/Host]

So let's talk a bit about solutions. How can older adults begin to deepen their existing friendships or build new ones.

[Frances Leese]

Even later in life?

[Kyle Rubedo]

I think one solution at its core, is the work that Friendship Works does. So it's being intentional in connecting volunteers with older adults. Our bread and butter for 41 years has been our friendly visiting program, where volunteers meet with older adults on a weekly basis. And it's simply conversational. It's really just building a relationship. And then we have other programs like our Medical Escort and our Friendly Helps program, which are spinoffs of the friendly Helping. And then over the past number of years, we've realized that there are two other key kind of magical powers in building connections and strong and healthy communities. And one is music and the other is pets. So we've built out this pet Pals program as well as a Music works program. So it's shifted our focus from a one to one in someone's home to more of a building environment where we're going into mostly larger housing developments and bringing in pets. And then we're also using the power and joy of music. And so we're bringing in outside musicians who perform. They do fun little games like Music Bingo or Finish this line. So I think we're trying to be creative and innovative and figuring out different kind of check in or plug in points to really break down that isolation and promote the engagement and the connectedness that Friendship Works and many other organizations are committed to. As someone who is visually impaired and I do a lot of running, and I would not be able to run outside without the support of volunteer sighted guides. So I directly benefit from this relationship of volunteer and myself. And it's interesting that all of my volunteers and my sighted guides, they kind of started as volunteers, but they've now all become some of my closest friends. What starts a little bit as a relational experience and it bleeds into A straight up friendship where you're not a lot of people don't even identify anymore as, oh, I'm a volunteer with Friendship Works. I'm just friends with Jane and I go talk with Jane every Tuesday afternoon.

[Interviewer/Host]

So what are some of the most meaningful things that participants take away from the friendly visiting program? Any common threads or unexpected insights that you see?

[Kyle Rubedo]

I think some of the common threads are reliability. So we do ask our friendly visiting volunteers to make a weekly commitment so they know that someone at X point in time and every day, once a week is going to come and be there. And we find that folks are really hopeful for that connection and they are anticipating it and they schedule their days around their friendly visitor coming. I also think it helps on a larger kind of socioeconomic as well as healthcare. Right. So we have a medical escort program that is a little bit different than friendly helping, but we have volunteers that actually help folks get from their door transportation wise to a medical appointment. So we're also seeing a pretty significant impact on overall health because if it wasn't for the support of our medical escort volunteers, many if not most of the older adults would not be making their medical appointment.

[Interviewer/Host]

So what are the tangible benefits of intergenerational friendships for older adults?

[Kyle Rubedo]

I think it's important to note that the intergenerational relationships is beneficial for both the volunteer and the older adult who they're working with. I think for older adults and I'm not yet, although I'm on the cusp of an older adult, so I do.

[Interviewer/Host]

Right behind you.

[Kyle Rubedo]

Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. So I do be careful. I try not to speak for but I know that the anecdotal feedback that we've heard is that, you know, it brings a sense of joy to individuals. It can make someone feel younger. If you're an older adult and you're interacting with and hearing all these updates, whether they're tech updates or entertainment and updates in sports, I think it brings a sense of energy to an older adult. I think there's some skill based learning that can happen. We know that there are younger adults who are working with their, what we call match their older adult and helping them with technology issues. So we know that there's volunteers out there that are like these secondary touch points that are helping with, you know, technology, whether it's zoom or back in the day with Skype. But there's also the benefits for the volunteer. So we know that sometimes a young adult chooses to volunteer because they're honoring a loved one who passed away. When I First started volunteering and being on the board with Friendship Works, I raised a lot of money in honor of my grandmother who lived to the age of 102. And so I carry those memories with me. So I think there's that benefit which then just makes individuals feel more connected to their community as well.

[Frances Leese]

Yeah.

[Interviewer/Host]

So let's transition to like, mental health. What impact do these friendships have emotionally or psychologically for both generations?

[Kyle Rubedo]

We often yearn for social engagement and interaction. Whether you're a younger adult newly in a workforce, or you're an older adult, we benefit from having engagement. I was on a conversation the other day with someone who has had a volunteer match for about a year, and we were just chit chatting and I was introducing myself to her and she had expressed that she had not left her apartment for about 18 months prior to being connected to this volunteer. And she was questioning, you know, her kind of will to live because of that. But I strongly believe that having a volunteer or more than one volunteer through Friendship Works has encouraged her to get outside, move around, and have these conversations with.

[Interviewer/Host]

So in your experience, how do intergenerational friendships help shift the way that we see aging or reduce age based biases?

[Kyle Rubedo]

I think part of the goal is to break these myths and these stereotypes down. And we know that part of that is just through conversation and learning people's backgrounds and having a stronger or gaining a stronger understanding of where folks came from, whether that may be their profession or their place of origin or their cultural or ethnicity. I recall working with an older adult who I just thought was a quote unquote, at this time, self identified as a secretary working for a very large insurance company for 30 to 40 years. What I didn't realize until about a year or two of working with her is that she was actually the first woman to be deployed in World War II overseas. Right. But that was a pretty amazing thing. And she had held that in and hadn't shared that until she wanted to share it. And that really made me step back and say, wow, like this person is way more than working in an insurance company for 40 years and they're bringing this to the table. So I think by forging these relationships with intergenerational volunteers, just by nature, it helps to break down those myths and stereotypes.

[Interviewer/Host]

Yeah. And I feel like this is so needed. You know, I do a lot of travel in Asia. And in Asia, it's like even in the house, there's like three generations in the house.

[Frances Leese]

Right.

[Interviewer/Host]

And so it's just a different approach on the east side of like what it means to really stay connected generationally where I feel like here in the states, some of that and not all, not everywhere, it's different for everyone. We've gotten really disconnected with that, unfortunately.

[Kyle Rubedo]

I agree and my mind always goes to like policy and how we can address these sort of systems upstream. And it's interesting that the city of Boston and I worked in the mayor's office for housing prior to this role. They just started a co housing opportunity where folks can buy like a two family or three family home together. And I think the first notion was, oh, it's going to be folks who are priced out of the market right now, mostly being younger professionals. But then there is the sense of like, whoa, wait, this could really be a benefit to folks intergenerational buying a home together. And now it's looked at as this opportunity to kind of build more intergenerational connections as well. And I don't think that was the goal from the jump, but it's certainly grown to that.

[Interviewer/Host]

If some young person is on the fence about volunteering, what would you say to them? What's your invitation?

[Kyle Rubedo]

I would invite them to have a conversation and to think about what they are looking for out of their community and their situation and knowing that it's a low threshold commitment, it's an hour or two most often in your community and it's an ability to either pay respect or tribute to an older adult that you've honored or have recently passed away. And I challenge folks to know that the outcome will be very different than what they expect going in.

[Interviewer/Host]

So for anyone out there curious about building an intergenerational friendship, whether that's other communities or organizations, but they're unsure where to begin. What advice would you give them?

[Kyle Rubedo]

I would ask them to think about what they're looking for in a volunteer experience and, and how they want to kind of hold space in their own community. And knowing that by supporting and engaging and having conversations with an older adult in your community, there is a strong sense of connectedness that can come out of that.

[Frances Leese]

Well, thank you Kyle for sharing more.

[Interviewer/Host]

About friendship works and also your journey. We love what you're doing in the community and, and we really hope that this reaches a lot of people because it's definitely something that's so important.

[Kyle Rubedo]

Well, I cannot say enough thank yous to you and the entire team for reaching out to us and having this conversation.

[Frances Leese]

If this episode starts something in you, don't let it pass. Call that older relative you've been meaning to check in on. Look up volunteer opportunities in your neighborhood. Start a conversation with someone from a different generation, even if it's just at the bus stop. Because the world needs more Peters and Poojas. It needs more Kyles building spaces for connection. But mostly, it needs more of us willing to plant those small seeds of friendship and trust in what might grow. Hello, I'm Frances Leese, and this has been Turning Points. Thank you for listening. Visit globe.com turningpoints one word for more information on mental health care and resources. Turningpoints is produced by Tufts health plan, a 0.32 health company, and the Studio B team at Boston Globe Media in partnership with POD People. With a commitment to personal service, Tufts Health Plan provides quality coverage and dedicated support to help guide and empower healthier lives. Stay healthy in mind and spirit.