Finding Purpose: Aging & Identity | S5E1

Summary

Podcast Summary: Turning Points: Navigating Mental Health

Episode: Finding Purpose: Aging & Identity | S5E1
Host: Frances Leese (Tufts Health Plan | Boston Globe Media)
Date: October 8, 2025

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Overview

This episode explores the profound transition of retirement, how aging reshapes personal identity, and the diverse ways individuals find renewed purpose later in life. Through the inspiring story of Paul and Jessica Schendel—who transformed their retirement into a decade-long initiative building a science education institute in rural Uganda—and insights from researcher Teresa Amabile, the discussion dives into losing and rediscovering identity, the emotional challenges and opportunities after leaving a career, and the power of connection and experimentation in redefining self and meaning in the later stages of life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Void" After Retirement: Facing Loss of Structure and Purpose

• Frances introduces the notion that retirement can feel like "standing at the edge of a cliff, staring into a void," where the structure of work drops away, leaving people to redefine who they are ([00:53]).
• Retirement is framed as both a challenge and an opportunity: the loss of an old identity can become the doorway to unexpected joy and reinvention ([00:53]).

2. Paul & Jessica Schendel’s Journey: Purpose Through Service

• Background:

  • Paul: Retired biochemist, former academic and biotech/pharma executive ([01:48]).
  • Jessica: Longtime social worker focused on trauma, families, and education ([02:24]).
  • Married with two daughters, four grandchildren.

• Catalyst:

  • With a child moving to Africa and Jessica’s connection to Uganda (where she volunteered at 18), they saw an opportunity for meaningful service together upon retirement ([03:09]).

• Initial Experience:

  • Arriving in rural Kanungu, Uganda, facing medical scarcity—"There were only a couple of doctors for about a quarter of a million people" ([04:58], Paul).
  • Paul discovers the lack of local science education limits the supply of future doctors and professionals.

• Transformational Pivot:

  • Advised by community leader Hamlet to focus on training science teachers, not scientists, addressing a critical educational gap ([06:30]).
  • Realization: "We could actually be creating something transformational here that could be a model for lots of places" ([07:30], Paul).

• Building the Institute:

  • Community engagement ensured the project was desired and sustainable ([07:58]).
  • Support emerged from unexpected places (e.g., a gym conversation led to architectural expertise and a state-of-the-art facility) ([09:25]-[10:11]).
  • "We ended up with this building with three laboratories... a computer science room, a lecture hall area... It was really quite a facility" ([10:11], Paul).
  • Over ten years, Paul and Jessica balanced life between Massachusetts and Uganda, then transitioned the institute to local control as it grew into a full university ([10:38]).

3. Measurable Impact and Full Circle Moments

• The program’s true testament: A student, inspired by a graduate of their institute, aspires to become a doctor—demonstrating generational impact ([10:52]).

4. Research Perspective: The Identity Crisis of Retirement

• Dr. Teresa Amabile, Harvard Business School Professor Emerita:

  • Interviewed 200+ retirees for her book "Retiring: Creating a Life that Works for You" ([12:14]).
  • "What happens to the individual's psychology when meaningful work goes away, when that part of your life is over?" ([12:29], Teresa).

• Key Findings:

  • Retirement isn’t only a financial decision; it’s an emotional, psychological, and identity shift ([13:01]).

  • The process involves four tasks ([14:12]):

    1. Deciding to retire
    2. Detaching from work
    3. Experimenting/exploring new interests
    4. Consolidating a new life structure

  • "Even people who insist their work doesn't define them are surprised by how much of their identity is still tied to their professional roles" ([14:37], Frances referencing Teresa's research).

5. Stories of Reinvention and Connection

• Irene’s story: Experienced a loss of respect and clear identity after retiring, illustrating challenges of detachment ([14:48], Teresa).

• Jay’s story: Used retirement to explore a passion (hot rodding cars), finding joy and a new community ([15:12], Teresa).

• On Paul & Jessica’s legacy:

  • "Many people talk about wanting to give back... but usually on a fairly small scale. That is what's so remarkable—they actually did it." ([15:51], Teresa).

6. Aging, Ageism, and Evolving Self-Perception

• Jessica reflects on shifting norms and expectations: grandmothers of past generations "would sit and read and knit and not much else... I'm just about that age now… People's expectations of the elderly have changed. I'm sure there is ageism, but the elderly contribute a lot." ([18:29], Jessica).
• "Plenty of life in the old dogs. Yeah." ([19:55], Jessica, with humor and affirmation).

7. Philosophies on Purpose and Staying Connected

• Paul: "To quote Shakespeare, to thine own self be true. Find something you can be passionate about. Don't be afraid to try, just go for it... Even if you fall short... it probably would have been a really fun ride." ([20:05])
• Jessica: "Keeping connected to other people. People are endlessly interesting... Don't curl up in a ball and only think about yourself... because that won't lead to anywhere." ([20:28])
• Teresa: "You can't do it alone... I don't think you can find your new sense of purpose, your new meaning, your new identities alone. Start experimenting with something before you retire." ([20:57])

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• “What have we gotten ourselves into? I have no idea how to start a science education institute in rural Africa. This is just craziness.” — Paul Schendel ([00:33])
• “I never think about aging. People ask how old I am, I really have to think about it.” — Jessica Schendel ([01:40])
• “There were only a couple of doctors for about a quarter of a million people.” — Paul Schendel ([04:58])
• "We could actually be creating something transformational here that could be a model for lots of places." — Paul Schendel ([07:30])
• "It's hard to envision who you will be and what you will do with your time when you're not doing this." — Teresa Amabile ([13:31])
• "People do respect you while you're still working. And after, maybe not so much." — Teresa Amabile, relaying Irene’s story ([14:48])
• "I'm just about that age now, and the whole expectation of what I would be like at that age must have morphed as I've grown older... I think people are much more willing to concede that the elderly have a lot that they can and do contribute." — Jessica Schendel ([18:29])
• "Find something that you can be passionate about. Don't be afraid to try, just go for it... it probably would have been a really fun ride." — Paul Schendel ([20:05])
• "You cannot, I don't think you can find your new sense of purpose, your new meaning, your new identities alone." — Teresa Amabile ([20:57])
• "You don't retire, you refire." — Frances Leese, echoing Jessica ([21:44])

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• 00:53 – Episode Theme: Mental health, aging, and the identity crisis at retirement
• 03:09 – Jessica’s connection to Uganda, shaping their retirement plan
• 06:30 – Pivot to science teacher training and vision for broader impact
• 09:25 – How community and chance encounters helped the project (the gym story)
• 10:38 – Lasting impact of the institute; stepping back for localized leadership
• 12:14 – Introduction of Teresa Amabile and her research on retirement transitions
• 14:12 – Four key psychological tasks of transitioning to retirement
• 18:29 – Jessica’s reflections on changing expectations of elders and ageism
• 20:05 – Paul, Jessica, and Teresa’s closing advice on pursuing passion and connection in later life

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Tone and Takeaways

The tone is warm, candid, uplifting, and deeply human. Stories are told with humility and humor—Paul and Jessica downplay their achievements and shine a light on community collaboration, while also acknowledging vulnerability and uncertainty. Teresa Amabile’s research adds an analytical frame, stressing that finding new purpose after retirement takes conscious effort, experimentation, and strong connections with others.

Key Messages:

• Retirement and aging are as much about reinvention and discovery as they are about endings.
• Identity shifts can be daunting, but embracing experimentation and human connection leads to deeper purpose and joy.
• Taking risks, staying curious, being open to community, and remaining engaged are essential for well-being in later life.

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For More Resources:
Visit globe.com/turningpoints for mental health support and further reading.

Transcript

[Frances Leese]

Paul and Jessica reached their 60s and found themselves embarking on one of the most ambitious projects of their lives together. But this big and purpose filled journey and didn't take place in corporate boardrooms or in a traditional office setting. This is the journey of their retirement.

[Paul Schendel]

I do remember on the way home thinking to myself, what have we gotten ourselves into? I have no idea how to start a science education institute in rural Africa. This is just craziness.

[Frances Leese]

I'm Frances Leese and this is Turning Points, a podcast about mental health from Tufts Health Plan. This week on the podcast, we discuss how aging affects how we see ourselves and our purpose. And how does our life's purpose evolve when we go through the profound transition of retirement? For many, this transition can feel like standing at the edge of a cliff, staring into a void. What happens when the work that gave our lives structure or meaning comes to an end? How do we begin to redefine who we are when the identities we spent decades building start to shift? But as we'll hear today, that void can also become a doorway to unexpected discoveries, purpose, and even joy.

[Jessica Schendel]

I never think about aging. I've never thought about aging. People ask how old I am. I really have to think about it.

[Paul Schendel]

Yeah, I agree with that. I don't think either of us think in terms of how old we are. We think in terms of how capable we are to do the things we need to do. My name is Paul Schendel. I'm married to Jessica. We have two daughters and four grandchildren who live locally. So that's great. I'm trained as a biochemist, molecular biologist. And I spent my working career, I think you'd say, studying cancer one way or the other. First as an academic and then within biotech and pharmaceutical R and D. I'm Jessica Schendel.

[Jessica Schendel]

I'm English. I've lived in the US a little more than half my life. And I was a social worker all my life. Started in community work and then did work with families experiencing trauma, did individual therapy, and ended up as a high school social worker.

[Frances Leese]

Beautiful. I'm also a social worker, so definitely have a soft spot for my social workers.

[Jessica Schendel]

Good career.

[Paul Schendel]

Yeah.

[Frances Leese]

When Paul and Jessica Schendel entered their 60s, life began to shift. One of their children had just moved to Africa. And for Jessica, this felt like the perfect moment to return to the village in Uganda where she taught English at 18.

[Jessica Schendel]

Very originally, when I had finished high school, I went there as a volunteer in 1968 and lived there. I was in a school and I was teaching what I had to teach them at 18, I have no idea, but that's what I did. So when these thoughts about retirement and doing a serious chunk of volunteer work post retirement came, that's where I wanted to go.

[Frances Leese]

Paul had just retired from his career as a biochemist and longtime pharmaceutical executive.

[Jessica Schendel]

We had no thoughts at the time that this was a long term project. We had nothing we had to do back here, and so we were going to do something we hoped would be useful for those three months.

[Frances Leese]

They were ready to travel and make an impact. The couple wanted to be of service to a town Jessica always dreamed of returning to. But what they discovered on the ground would change everything.

[Paul Schendel]

First of all, it was a little bit of a shock when we got across the border after very short period of time on some reasonable roads. The driver said, okay, now we're going to head for Kanungu. And off we went on dirt roads up through the mountains for two hours, for two hours, bouncing around edges of places, honking the horn as we went around corners. It was sort of crazy, was wonderful, but it, it dropped down into this little valley that, where these folks lived. And it was a beautiful place and amazing people who, you know, you know.

[Jessica Schendel]

It'S just who welcomed us, who welcomed us in arms.

[Frances Leese]

This village was in such a remote location that the only option for quality medical care in an emergency was a medical evacuation.

[Paul Schendel]

There were only a couple of doctors for about a quarter of a million people that lived in the area. Therefore, nobody really got any reasonable health care. So that was just sort of a little bit of a scary intro, but we were in good health, basically. So we said, we'll, we'll try it.

[Frances Leese]

In a region of more than 250,000 people, there were only a couple of doctors. And when they asked why more young people weren't going to medical school, the answer was simple. They didn't have the science education to even qualify.

[Paul Schendel]

We were asked to work at this little college, and this little college taught things like social work, so Jessica could do that, she could teach some languages there. They were trying to make people ready to get into jobs because unemployment is enormously high out there. So the focus was on things that would be employable. There was nothing to do with science. And I realized I was one of the first scientifically trained people that had ever been out there to volunteer. So before we left, I. I talked to Hamlet, the head of this organization that we were working with, and floated the idea of starting science education at the college. He was not impressed. He. He said, no, there's no Jobs for anybody that have those skills, you know, we're not going to do that.

[Frances Leese]

Instead, their colleague at the school suggested a different approach.

[Paul Schendel]

Hamlet suggested that we think about science education rather than science as the focus. He said, number one, the students can all get jobs in that the government is pouring money into hiring science teachers. There are no science teachers around this area. So if they want to stay near, near their family, they can stay near their family. They can get a job that would work great for them. Suddenly realizing that what we were doing might be setting the area up for years and years of growth and development because we would be supplying an educational need that would spawn not only doctors, but veterinarians and engineers and computer scientists, and they could come back and help develop things for their parents and their grandparents and for the future. So suddenly, wow, we could actually be creating something transformational here that could be a model for lots of places, for being able to develop real sustainable development. So I got very, very psyched about that. And that ended up being the pitch that I would give to everybody about why they should help me. We launched the project and we called it Seed Science Education to Enhance Development. And for the next 10 years, I spent quite a lot of time just asking friends and colleagues and anyone who would listen if they would support us. Once we had decided to focus on science education, Jessica and I flew back to Africa to talk to community leaders to be sure that they were on board with that as an idea. We didn't want to build anything that they didn't want, and we didn't want to build anything that they wouldn't use and wouldn't support. When we got there, they were enthusiastic about it. So we decided, okay, it sounds like it's a go.

[Frances Leese]

For 10 years, Paul and Jessica split their time between Massachusetts and Uganda, fundraising, building and creating something that had never existed before. But this wasn't just about building a science program. It was about building a global connection, and it pushed them to approach their partnership in entirely new ways.

[Jessica Schendel]

We approach things a little bit differently. It's probably not a surprise. Paul is very willing to take big risks. Paul has very big visions. He's able to step back, way, way back and see how something might be and what it would entail to get there.

[Paul Schendel]

I had the advantage of spending 25 years working on projects that when you started them, you had an idea, but you didn't know if they were going to work.

[Frances Leese]

They had different approaches, but a shared commitment and help showed up in the most unexpected ways.

[Paul Schendel]

I went to the gym and I was working out and the person next to me was a woman who I recognize and it was the wife of the man who had designed my lab when I moved to Boston. And so I chatted with her and told her a little bit about it. Pretty soon he called me up and said I was talking to my wife. He worked for Perkins and Will, which is an international architectural firm, and they had a program where they would give some amount of time to these kind of charitable things. And they assigned a young architect to us and he ended up getting into the project and figuring all kinds of things out and designing a 8,000 square foot building for us to house our institute.

[Frances Leese]

A casual gym conversation led to the design of an 8,000 square foot science institute in rural Africa.

[Paul Schendel]

We ended up with this building with three laboratories, One for physics, one for chemistry, one for biology, A computer science room, a lecture hall area that we could build out for independent research. It was really quite a facility that really enhanced the college and actually allowed them to become a university because it was enough resources.

[Frances Leese]

Fast forward to today. Paul and Jessica had stepped back from the project, turning it over to local leadership. The college had grown into a university. Graduates were teaching science in rural schools. But the true tests of their work came in ways they never could have predicted.

[Paul Schendel]

This spring they went to the high school that they are helping to run and they met a very energetic young student. He was a high school student whose dream and hope is to go to medical school. And that's very unusual because since none of these kids grow up ever seeing doctors, they don't mostly even know what doctors do or what they're about. So it's not usual to have a kid who's gung ho about medical school. So they asked a little bit about what was going on and they found out that he was particularly being trained by and influenced by, mentored by a science teacher that was a graduate of our program.

[Frances Leese]

A high school student with a dream inspired by a teacher who had been trained at the very science program Paul and Jessica built. But what does this incredible story tell us about the broader experience of aging in retirement? To help us understand, I'm joined by someone who has been researching the impact of our work environments. Recently, she has made it her sole purpose to study the transition of leaving the workplace place.

[Teresa Amabile]

My name is Teresa Amabile and I'm a retired professor emerita professor at Harvard Business School. And I've been doing research for, gosh, over 50 years now.

[Frances Leese]

Her most recent research has been laser focused on a transition. She knows firsthand over the past decade, Teresa interviewed more than 200 people about their experience with retirement. The result is her book, Retiring Creating a Life that Works for your.

[Teresa Amabile]

What happens to the individual's psychology when meaningful work goes away, when that part of your life is over? And that's what motivated me to start researching the experience of transitioning to retirement.

[Frances Leese]

Theresa's research started with a simple but powerful question. If meaningful work is so central to our identity, what happens when it goes away? What Teresa and her collaborators discovered is that retirement isn't just about having enough money saved up, making sure that you're.

[Teresa Amabile]

Set in the financial realm. And obviously that is very important. But many people seem to think that that's what it's all about, that that's all it takes, and then the rest is easy. But what we discovered is that retiring really takes work.

[Frances Leese]

Retirement is more than deciding to leave your job. It marks a profound identity shift. But what really lies beyond the reliable rhythm of working nine to five, Monday through Friday, for decades upon decades?

[Teresa Amabile]

I think it's encapsulated best by one person who said that facing retirement was like standing at the edge of a cliff staring into a void. When you've done something for decades, when you have focused much of your life around a career, as many of these professionals did, it's hard to envision who you will be and what you will do with your time when you're not doing this.

[Frances Leese]

And what happens after someone decides to plunge into the unknown. Teresa has a helpful framework for those who are craving structure. She says that the first task is finally deciding to retire.

[Teresa Amabile]

And after that, the second task is detaching from work, which most people don't even think about as something they're going to need to do. The third task is building a provisional retirement life for yourself by experimenting and exploring. And the fourth task is consolidating a more or less settled retirement life from some of those provisional elements.

[Frances Leese]

Even people who insist their work doesn't define them are often surprised by how much of their identity is still tied to their professional roles. Teresa tells the story of someone she calls Irene.

[Teresa Amabile]

She said, you know, people do respect you while you're still working. And after, maybe not so much it was an identity issue for her.

[Frances Leese]

But Theresa's research also uncovered the other side of this transition stories filled with joy, discovery, and reinvention. One of those came from someone she calls Jay.

[Teresa Amabile]

Jay was in some ways not his true self, and he wanted to discover who he really was without work in his life. And we saw some fascinating identity Explorations in Jay, and he found tremendous joy in doing this.

[Frances Leese]

Jay rediscovered his passion for hot rodding, customizing cars, and connecting with a whole community of enthusiasts. What started as a hobby became a source of identity, connection, and joy. So how does Teresa see Paul and Jessica's remarkable journey, not just as a researcher, but as their friend?

[Teresa Amabile]

I have known Paula Jessica for about 40 years, since our daughters were in first grade together. And I was really impressed with the way they decided to spend their retirement time. Paul and Jess story is remarkable because, you know, many people talk about wanting to give back, wanting to make a positive difference in the world after they retire. Some do. Many do, but usually on a fairly small scale. That is what's so remarkable is that they developed this ambitious and they actually did it.

[Frances Leese]

So how has the way you see yourselves evolved as you've grown older beyond work, beyond roles? Jessica, if you would want to take that.

[Jessica Schendel]

Well, I'm still not getting older, not older, wiser.

[Paul Schendel]

What I would say is that I don't think my personal philosophy has been changed at all by chronological time moving by. I still think my job is to try to make the world better place than I leave it and use my talents and resources as best I can. I use them a little slower. I don't have quite the energy I had. I sleep more, but, you know, I continue to get up every day with that as my goal. I've certainly slowed down but not changed anything about what I feel is my purpose in life.

[Frances Leese]

That's like moment to moment.

[Jessica Schendel]

Yeah, I agree with that. I think looking back, there are very few times in my life when I had a really dramatic turning point. Moving to the US of course. Was one actually going to Uganda the first time at the age of 18 by myself, that was definitely one. But later in life, it's been much more gradual sort of trajectory, basically all in the same direction. You know, we're out and about. We have a good social life. We have family nearby, we babysit. We just keep active. We just keep active and involved.

[Paul Schendel]

We've got lots of dance recitals and soccer games.

[Frances Leese]

I bet four grandkids, they'll keep you busy for sure. So how do you think internalized beliefs about aging, just in general or even on ageism, can shape how we see ourselves in this chapter of our lives?

[Jessica Schendel]

I have a very favorite photograph of me aged four with my grandmother who lived with us, who is dressed all in black, long black dresses, big clunky shoes, a hat, of course, a cane. And my memory of my granny is that she Would sit and read and knit and not much else. And I realized that when that photograph was taken. I'm just about that age now, and the whole expectation of what I would be like at that age must have morphed as I've grown older, because what I thought, I'm sure I thought that was normal. And I think it was. I don't think she was particularly old fashioned. So I think we expect not to get to the point where we don't do anything. And so I think that has changed people's expectations of the elderly. I'm sure there is ageism around, I know there is. But I think people are much more willing to concede that the elderly have a lot that they can and do contribute. Look at the protests recently. They're full of older people. Whether you agree or whether you don't agree with what they're protesting about, they're out there, they're making their feelings heard. Plenty of life in the old dogs. Yeah.

[Frances Leese]

So what can the rest of us take away from the research and these powerful personal stories? Paul leaves us with this wisdom.

[Paul Schendel]

To quote Shakespeare to thine own self be true. Find something that you can be passionate about. Don't be afraid to try, just go for it. Even if you fall short of the ultimate goal, you probably will achieve something, and it probably would have been a really fun ride.

[Frances Leese]

Jessica reminds us of just how important.

[Jessica Schendel]

Connection really is, keeping connected to other people. People are endlessly interesting. They open doors for you, they introduce you to things, they teach you things. Don't curl up in a ball and only think about yourself and your concerns and where you're going to go from here, because that won't lead to anywhere.

[Frances Leese]

Teresa's research highlights how essential it is to experiment and to not try to navigate this transition alone.

[Teresa Amabile]

You can't do it alone. You cannot, I don't think you can find your new sense of purpose, your new meaning, your new identities alone. The other thing that I would urge people to do, to find meaning and purpose is to start experimenting with something before you retire.

[Frances Leese]

Our identity is always evolving, and that's just a natural part of being human. For me, figuring out who I was outside of my career has been a big part of this journey called life. I've had to walk away from roles I worked really hard to build, not because I wasn't capable, but because it just no longer aligned. One career path in particular left me completely burned out. And letting it go felt like letting go a piece of my identity. But stepping into different roles pushed me to just zoom out and see myself beyond the titles and degrees. And I started to understand that my worth isn't in the role itself. It's in my ability to grow, to adapt, and to meet life as it changes. Paul and Jessica's story began with what looked like an ending, the closure of two very successful careers. But what they discovered was that aging and retirement don't have to mean decline or irrelevance. In fact, stepping from away, away from their established identities became the beginning of their most meaningful work. This kind of transition often begins with a void, that uncertain space where the old structures fall away. But as these stories show us, that void can also be sacred space, a space for discovery, a space to experiment with who we might become next. Whether it's building a university in rural Uganda, building, rediscovering a love for hot rodding, or finding your voice as an activist, the key seems to be staying connected to others, to purpose, and to the possibility that our most authentic selves might still be waiting to emerge. And as Jessica put it, you don't retire, you refire. The question isn't whether we'll change as we age, because we will. The real question is whether we're willing to meet that change as an invitation to. To grow, to deepen, and maybe even to find joy. I'm Frances, and this has been Turning Points. Thank you for listening and visit globe.com turningpointsonneword for more information on mental health care and resources. Turningpoints Season 5 is produced by Tufts Health Plan, a 32Health company, and the studio B team at Boston Globe Media in partnership with POD People. With a commitment to personal service, Tufts Health Plan provides quality coverage and dedicated support to help guide and empower healthier lives. That's all for this episode. Stay healthy in mind and spirit.