Auld Lang What? The surprising origins of the New Year’s song

Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: Twenty Thousand Hertz
Episode: "Auld Lang What? The Surprising Origins of the New Year’s Song"
Host: Dallas Taylor (with Lizzie Peabody, guest segment from the Smithsonian's Side Door podcast, and guest Jim Deutsch)
Release Date: December 31, 2025

This episode delves into the origins, meaning, and enduring cultural significance of “Auld Lang Syne,” the song synonymous with New Year’s celebrations across the English-speaking world. Through conversation with folklorist Jim Deutsch and Side Door host Lizzie Peabody, listeners discover how this Scottish folk tune became an international symbol of transition, nostalgia, and togetherness.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Mystery of Tradition and Song Meaning

• The Perennial New Year’s Question: The episode opens by highlighting traditions we often follow without questioning, focusing on the ritualistic singing of “Auld Lang Syne” at midnight on New Year’s Eve.
• Lyrical Confusion: The hosts discuss the widespread confusion about the song’s actual meaning—citing its pivotal role in the 1989 movie When Harry Met Sally and reflecting the reality that many people do not know the words or their significance.
  • Quote (Lizzie Peabody, 04:27): “Does that mean that we should forget old acquaintances? Does it mean that if we happen to forget them, we should remember them?”
• Literal Translation: Jim Deutsch clarifies that “Auld Lang Syne” literally means “old long since” (05:15).

2. Scottish Roots and Robert Burns’ Influence

• Scottish Origins: The song is centuries old, with its earliest roots in Scotland. Poet Robert Burns wrote down the lyrics in 1788 as part of his effort to document Scottish traditions.
  • Quote (Lizzie Peabody, 05:36): “Auld Lang Syne is one of those so old songs that nobody can say for sure exactly when it dates to. But we do know it comes from Scotland.”

3. The Song’s Journey to New Year’s and American Pop Culture

• Historical References: Jim Deutsch shares old newspaper excerpts tracking the song’s association with New Year’s, citing The Scotsman (1890) and The New York Times (1895), which listed Auld Lang Syne among other tunes played at midnight, but not yet as the New Year’s anthem (06:51).
  • Quote (Jim Deutsch, 07:29): “It was one of many songs that were chimed on New Year’s Eve at the stroke of midnight, but it wasn’t the one song.”
• Guy Lombardo’s Influence: The popular explanation credits Canadian bandleader Guy Lombardo and His Royal Canadians for cementing Auld Lang Syne as the song for New Year’s Eve, starting with their yearly performances at Manhattan’s Roosevelt Grill in 1929, which were broadcast nationwide.
  • Quote (Jim Deutsch, 09:00): “A Canadian living in the United States and being on American radio and then transitioning from American television and watched by millions of people at the stroke of midnight.”

4. An Alternate (and Earlier) Theory: Chaplin’s “The Gold Rush”

• Chaplin’s Silent Film: Deutsch proposes an earlier pop culture moment that predated Lombardo—Charlie Chaplin’s 1925 film The Gold Rush. The film features a poignant New Year's Eve scene involving “Auld Lang Syne,” possibly shaping American sentiment and tradition.
  • Quote (Jim Deutsch, 09:30): “Because four years before Guy Lombardo…Charlie Chaplin released a film called the Gold Rush, which has a remarkable scene set on New Year’s Eve.”
• Emotional Resonance of the Scene: The episode describes how the song underscores Chaplin’s lonely, yearning character while others celebrate arm-in-arm.
  • Quote (Jim Deutsch, 18:33): “Cut back to the cabin…The lone prospector waking up and goes to the door…He looks heartbroken.”
  • Quote (Lizzie Peabody, 19:17): “Oh, his body language. He’s just punched. He’s so dejected.”

5. Why “Auld Lang Syne” Endures

• Emotional Universality: The song’s profound sense of nostalgia and bittersweet reflection makes it especially apt for transitional moments—like the year’s end.
  • Quote (Jim Deutsch, 21:07): “I don’t think it’s the words that are so important as the emotions that are inherent.”
• Communal Experience: Singing "Auld Lang Syne" is rarely a solo activity; instead, it brings people together, enhancing feelings of community.
  • Quote (Jim Deutsch, 22:11): “I think it’s more common to sing it in unison...an absolute community of people who are connected.”
• Janus and New Beginnings: The hosts link the song’s themes to the symbolism of January—named after Janus, the Roman god with two faces looking to the past and the future.
  • Quote (Jim Deutsch, 24:17): “...the first month of the new year is January, which is named for the Roman God Janus, who was two faced—one direction looking back and one direction looking forward.”

6. A Melancholy Yet Joyful Tradition

• Melancholy and Hope: The episode closes by highlighting the balance of wistfulness, nostalgia, and hope found in the song.

  • Quote (Jim Deutsch, 23:04): “The sense of wistfulness, nostalgia. But also, as we’re saying, you know, looking back at the year that has just passed, but looking forward with some optimism and hope for the future.”

• Closing with Music: Listeners are treated to a 1970s bluegrass banjo rendition from the Smithsonian Folkways catalogue, emblematic of the song’s ability to move, comfort, and unite.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• About the song’s ambiguous meaning:

  • “Does that mean that we should forget old acquaintances? Does it mean that if we happen to forget them, we should remember them?”
    (Lizzie Peabody, 04:27)

• Defining the title:

  • “Literally, old long since.”
    (Jim Deutsch, 05:15)

• On the New Year’s Eve tradition:

  • “It was one of many songs that were chimed on New Year’s Eve at the stroke of midnight, but it wasn’t the one song.”
    (Jim Deutsch, 07:29)

• Guy Lombardo’s role:

  • “A Canadian living in the United States and being on American radio and then transitioning from American television and watched by millions of people at the stroke of midnight.” (Jim Deutsch, 09:00)

• Chaplin’s poignant film moment:

  • “Cut back to the cabin…The lone prospector waking up and goes to the door…He looks heartbroken.”
    (Jim Deutsch, 18:33)
  • “Oh, his body language. He’s just punched. He’s so dejected.”
    (Lizzie Peabody, 19:17)

• Why the song lasts:

  • “I don’t think it’s the words that are so important as the emotions that are inherent.” (Jim Deutsch, 21:07)

• On singing together:

  • “I think it’s more common to sing it in unison…an absolute community of people who are connected.” (Jim Deutsch, 22:11)

• On January as a symbol:

  • “...the first month of the new year is January, which is named for the Roman God Janus, who was two faced—one direction looking back and one direction looking forward.” (Jim Deutsch, 24:17)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 03:26 – The annual tradition and confusion around the song
• 05:15 – Literal translation of “Auld Lang Syne”
• 06:11 – 07:29 – Historical mentions of the song & early American traditions
• 07:51 – 09:00 – Guy Lombardo and the cementing of the tradition
• 09:30 – 13:07 – Introduction and analysis of Chaplin’s The Gold Rush as a cultural milestone
• 17:26 – 20:51 – Detailed breakdown of the film’s New Year’s scene and its emotional impact
• 21:07 – 24:17 – The song’s emotional power and communal nature; tying the tradition to broader themes of nostalgia and hope

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Tone and Language

The conversation is warm, inquisitive, and slightly wistful—mirroring the subject matter of the song itself. Both hosts and guests speak with clear affection for the tradition and curiosity for the song’s mysterious history. The segment is full of gentle humor, personal reflections, and a deep sense of reverence for how sound and tradition shape memories.

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Conclusion

If you’ve ever wondered why we sing “Auld Lang Syne” each New Year’s—even if you’re unsure what it means—this episode offers a fascinating look at the song's journey from Scottish clubs to American midnight gatherings. It's as much about the emotions of connecting, remembering, and hoping as it is about any single lyric or melody. The episode closes with a celebration of the song’s enduring spirit and an encouragement to embrace both its melancholy and joy as we step into another year.

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Transcript

[Dallas Taylor]

Hey, listeners. I know it might feel like 20,000 hertz is this big, super established show from some big, respectable podcast network. And most of the time, I'm happy to have people think that our show operates just like my podcasting heroes do, like Radiolab or this American life or 99% invisible. But the reality is, we're a small independent show with no network or parent company supporting us. Our team is just a handful of people working hard to keep this show going. In a normal year, we often barely break even. It pays for its own costs, but for me, this is pretty much a passion project. And when times are tough financially, it can threaten to end our show, which actually almost happened last winter. Now, fortunately, things evened out and we're still here. But it was a harsh reminder of just how fragile this show is to pull back the curtain a little more. A few years ago, there was a bubble in the podcast industry, and that's when our ad revenue was at its highest. But ever since then, the price that advertisers are willing to pay for a podcast ad has been going down. Each year as a result, we rely more and more on the money we make from our premium subscribers. And that's where you come in. If you value what we do and you want to keep hearing new episodes, then please sign up for our premium feed. Take a minute right now to open up your browser and type in 20k.org/plus. If you're on Apple Podcasts, you can just pull up 20000 Hz and tap subscribe. Once you do that and you're subscribed, you'll get our entire catalog with zero ads. But we still keep the mystery sound in there because everyone likes those. And on top of all of this, starting in 2026, you'll get the episodes three days early. I love making this show so much, and I want to keep making it, but I can't do it without you. Again, that's 20k.org/. Did you know that hobbits might have really existed? Well, not real hobbits, but an extinct species of small humans in Indonesia. I Learned this on CuriosityStream, the streaming service with thousands of documentaries. Did you know that Hitler planned a secret attack on New York? Or that NASA might build a base on Mars using mushrooms? It's all on CuriosityStream. Get it for yourself or as a last minute gift for a friend or relative. For 50% off. That's just $1.67 per month. To sign up, click the link in the show notes or visit curiositystream.com 20K that's curiositystream.com 2 0K. You're listening to 20,000HZ. The stories behind the world's most iconic and fascinating sounds. I'm Dallas Taylor. As social creatures, there are lots of things that we learn to do without ever knowing why. When someone sneezes, we might say, God bless you. To avoid jinxing something, we might knock on wood. And in the English speaking world, there's this song with a confusing name that we sing once a year. Why? Well, no one's totally sure, but the Smithsonian side Door podcast has an interesting theory. Here's host Lizzie Peabody.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Every year on December 31, many of us gather with loved ones to watch a clock, a phone, or, you know, some timekeeping device and count down to the new year. And as the clock strikes midnight, countless parties across the country sing together this song.

[Jim Deutsch]

Should Old Acquaintance Be Forgot and.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Days of Old Anxiety. Auld Lang Syne. It's a song we've come to associate with the new year.

[Jim Deutsch]

But wait a second, wait a second. What the heck is Old Lang Syne?

[Lizzie Peabody]

Do you have any idea what this song is about?

[Jim Deutsch]

It's funny you asked that question, because that's exactly what Harry asked sally in the 1989 film when Harry Met Sally.

[Lizzie Peabody]

This is curator Jim Deutch.

[Jim Deutsch]

He says, what does this song mean? My whole life, I don't know what this song means.

[Dallas Taylor]

I mean, should old acquaintance be forgotten?

[Lizzie Peabody]

Does that mean that we should forget old acquaintances? Does it mean that if we happen to forget them, we should remember them.

[Jim Deutsch]

Which is not possible because we already forgot them? To which Sally, played by Meg Ryan, replies, well, maybe it just means we should remember that we forgot them or something. Anyway, it's about old friends. And I think that's the key, is that what's important are not so much the actual words, but rather the emotions that the song conjures, especially at this moment of transitioning from one year to the next.

[Lizzie Peabody]

It's the holiday season and that means we find ourselves doing all sorts of things without always knowing exactly why or how we started doing them. What does Auld Lang Syne mean?

[Jim Deutsch]

Literally Old long since.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Old long since. And what is it about?

[Jim Deutsch]

It's about remembering the past, remembering your friends. And I think what's most curious is how did it become the standard for New Year's Eve?

[Lizzie Peabody]

Auld Lang Syne is one of those so old songs that nobody can say for sure exactly when it dates to. But we do know it comes from Scotland. People there have been singing it for ages. And in 1788, Scottish poet Robert Burns wrote the words down as part of an effort to document and preserve Scottish traditions in the face of growing British influence. As for how it became a New Year's tradition, well, I called up Jim Deutsch, curator of folklife and popular culture with the Smithsonian center for Folklife and Cultural Heritage, and he had a theory to share.

[Jim Deutsch]

So I've done some historical research on this and looking at old newspapers. This is one from the newspaper the Scotsman, January 1, 1890. And it describes what is happening on New Year's Eve in Edinburgh. Bottles were much in evidence. The swaying of the crowd. The New Year was pledged. The steeple bells afterwards chimed Auld lang Syne. O and here's one from the New York Times just a few years later, 1895, where it talks about the chimes that were rung on New Year's Eve at the various churches.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Wait a minute. The Times reported on what the different church chimes were ringing.

[Jim Deutsch]

Yes.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Okay. Yes, I guess that was news.

[Jim Deutsch]

Yes. New York Times, January 1, 1895. So at the Trinity Church, which is one of the most famous churches in Lower Manhattan. So the final four songs are Little Maggie May, the Bluebells of Scotland, Auld Lang Syne, and Home Sweet Home.

[Lizzie Peabody]

So does that tell us that Auld Lang Syne was sort of in circulation here in the United States, but it wasn't synonymous with the dropping of the ball yet?

[Jim Deutsch]

Exactly right. It was one of many songs that were chimed on New Year's Eve at the stroke of midnight, but it wasn't the one song. And if you Google, why is Auld Lang Syne so popular in the United States? The answer inevitably looks to Guy Lombardo.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Guy Lombardo.

[Jim Deutsch]

Lombardo, yeah. Guy Lombardo was a bandleader, Canadian, and his band was known as the Royal Canadians. And he grew up in Western Ontario, where there's a large Scottish population. And so the story is that Guy Lombardo heard this song. It was a song that would mark the end of a part or the end of a dance. Now, we know that it was also used on New Year's Eve, but not specifically New Year's Eve, but every New Year's Eve in New York City at the Roosevelt Grill in Manhattan. Guy Lombardo and the Royal Canadians would mark the stroke of midnight by playing this song starting in 1929.

[Lizzie Peabody]

So it was Lombardo, a Canadian, who created this American tradition.

[Jim Deutsch]

A Canadian living in the United States and being on American radio and then transitioning from American radio to American television and watched by millions of people at the stroke of midnight.

[Lizzie Peabody]

So that's the answer. That's it. That's how the song came to be played at.

[Jim Deutsch]

If you look at what's on the Internet. Yes.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Do you have another theory?

[Jim Deutsch]

I have another theory. I do have another theory. Because four years before Guy Lombardo came to New York in 1929, in 1925, Charlie Chaplin released a film called the Gold Rush.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Oh.

[Jim Deutsch]

Which has a remarkable scene set on New Year's Eve.

[Lizzie Peabody]

So before we get into that scene, can you give me just a brief synopsis of the movie, which, by the way, has 100% on rotten tomatoes.

[Jim Deutsch]

Oh, okay.

[Lizzie Peabody]

And there's 53 reviews. So it's not just like one person ranked it 100%. It is well regarded film.

[Jim Deutsch]

I have very high regard for that film. The Gold Rush is quintessential Chaplin because he plays the underdog. The character of the Tramp, with a mustache, bowler cane, oversized floppy shoes, baggy pants, tight jacket.

[Lizzie Peabody]

The character that you picture when you think. Charlie Chaplin.

[Jim Deutsch]

Yes, and very much the underdog.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Charlie Chaplin was the most popular American film entertainer of the time. But he was born in London, 1889.

[Jim Deutsch]

Would have been familiar with traditions in London and the British Empire.

[Lizzie Peabody]

He would have been hearing those church bells.

[Jim Deutsch]

He would have been hearing those church bells. And grew up very, very poor.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Not unlike the character he often played on screen.

[Jim Deutsch]

The Tramp, when he is introduced in the film, he's introduced as the lone prospector who is somewhere in the north, Yukon, Alaska, during the Klondike Gold rush of the 1890s. And he is trying to find his fortune. And like almost all of Chaplin's films, he's searching for love. So, as occurs in many of Chaplin's films, he is smitten with a woman. He's stricken by a woman he meets in the dance hall, whose name is Georgia. He admires her beauty. He admires her personality. He's just in love with her. But he is invisible to her. She doesn't see him. And somehow Georgia and several of her friends end up in his cabin. And she jokingly says, oh, why don't we come back here on New Year's Eve? Having no intention, absolutely no intention, of visiting his cabin on New Year's Eve because she's the most popular woman in this town.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Why would she do that? Just to be mean.

[Jim Deutsch]

Just to be mean. But of course, he doesn't know that. We see him going out and shoveling snow to earn money to be able to provide food and the decorations for the party.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Oh, to save money. Just to throw the party just to throw the party. Wow.

[Jim Deutsch]

At 8 o', clock, he's got everything ready, the table is set, he's dressed beautifully, but no Georgia and the other women that he had invited.

[Lizzie Peabody]

In the film, we see Chaplin's character, the lone prospector, sit down at the dinner table to wait for his guests. He waits, watches the clock, and eventually the candles burning down. He falls asleep at the table and starts to dream. And we see what he's dreaming about. Or at least we will when we rejoin the lone prospector after the break.

[Dallas Taylor]

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[Lizzie Peabody]

The doors are closing. Please keep clear and hold on for departure to terminal ground, transportation and baggage claim.

[Dallas Taylor]

And here's this episode's Mystery Sound. If you know that sound, submit your guess at the web address mystery.20.org anyone who guesses it right will be entered to win. You're never going to believe this, but a super soft 20,000 Hz T shirt. Hello.

[Grace]

This is the sound of an empty ad slot. They're notorious for having lots of reverb. I'm Grace and I manage our ads here at 20,000 hertz. Once in a while those ads don't get booked, so we end up with open slots like this one. We rely on those ad dollars to make the 20k engine run. So if you work for a brand that might want to support the show, shoot me an email. We're proud to have an audience of over 100,000 awesome people who care deeply about sound. To get your brand in front of them, email [e-mail] Also, a reminder that our show is produced by a sound agency called Defacto Sound. We sound design and mix trailers, promos and ads for companies like Disney, Ford, l' Oreal and many more. To book us for your next project, reach out by emailing graceefactosound.com Last but not least, you can support us directly by subscribing to our Premium feed. Sign [e-mail]/ or by tapping subscribe in Apple Podcasts Premium subscribers get ad free listening in their app of choice, plus new episodes three days early. Thanks.

[Dallas Taylor]

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[Lizzie Peabody]

Talking about a scene in one of Charlie Chaplin's early films, the Gold Rush. Curator Jim Deutch has a theory that this scene might be responsible for making Auld Lang Syne, the New Year's classic. It is today, nearly 100 years later in the movie, Chaplin, who plays a prospector in the Klondike Gold Rush, waits in his little cabin for the beautiful Georgia and her friends to come to dinner as they've promised to. But as he waits for them, he falls asleep at the table and starts to dream. We see him sitting around at a table surrounded by ladies. These ladies in Party hats. And they're laughing and they're dressed to the nines. And they're asking him to give a speech.

[Jim Deutsch]

Yes. And Georgia plants a kiss on him, which sends him falling to the floor because he's so overcome with emotion. And then fade to black. And fade into people in the dance hall. We see signs in the background saying, happy New Year. And that's Georgia, who's given two guns. It's the stroke of midnight. She shoots the guns.

[Grace]

Blam.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Blam. Everybody cheers.

[Jim Deutsch]

Everybody cheers. Cut back to the cabin. The lone prospector waking up and goes to the door.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Oh, yeah, he's standing at the door. He's sort of gazing out into the night. And he looks heartbroken.

[Jim Deutsch]

Yeah, he is heartbroken. And cut back to the scene in the dance hall where everyone is holding hands singing Auld Lang Symphony. And is the bow and sky. Chaplin knew how to just connect.

[Dallas Taylor]

Oh, gosh.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Oh, his body language. He's just punched. He's so dejected.

[Jim Deutsch]

Right. In a silent film, it's all body light. It's body language, it's gesture, it's expression. Audiences in the theater, remember, in a theater, it's different from us watching it on a small screen. You would have been surrounded by hundreds of people, many of them crying. I think the film elicits emotions, which is. And again, you don't have to watch this in English. People around the world were watching this and connecting in 1925. Four years before Guy Lombardo ever came to the Roosevelt Grill in Manhattan.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Okay, so 1925. This is years before Guy Lombardo started playing his famous New Year's Eve concert in New York City. So how much of the American population would have seen this movie in 1925?

[Jim Deutsch]

I would say at least half.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Okay.

[Jim Deutsch]

And then the film was re released in 1942 with a synchronized soundtrack.

[Lizzie Peabody]

I see. Okay.

[Jim Deutsch]

And with the synchronized soundtrack, we can hear them singing Auld Lang Syne. So people would have seen this film. And it's not just the singing of the song. It's the pathos and the melancholy and the emotions that Chaplin and his Tramp character bring to the screen that would have been so memorable.

[Lizzie Peabody]

So the song itself, you know, it has a particular quality to it. Do you think that there's something about this song that gives it particular staying power, whether it's the words or the actual notes?

[Jim Deutsch]

Yes. The words are relatively few. And I should note that most people hear only the first verse. Should old acquaintance be forgotten and never brought to mind should old acquaintance be forgot in the days of auld lang Syne. I don't think it's the words that are so important as the emotions that are inherent.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Yeah. There's something in this song that makes you want to wrap your arm around someone's shoulder and sing along with them. Like, even if you don't know them, even if you don't know the words, you're there in this moment, inhabiting it together. And it's. I don't know, I guess in any moment of real presence, you are confronting this sense of communion, but also the fleetingness of any gathering of people of any of time.

[Jim Deutsch]

Yes, I agree. And it is a song that people don't sing alone. Well, I don't. Is it a song that we sing alone in the shower?

[Lizzie Peabody]

I actually was humming it to myself this morning in the shower in preparation for this interview. It's been in my.

[Jim Deutsch]

Okay. But I think it's more common to sing it in unison and again. Which brings me back to that wonderful scene in the gold rush of people joining hands, arms crossed across their bodies, linking everyone together. The camera is panning as we see this absolute community of people who are connected. And then cut to the lone prospector alone in his cabin, absolutely solitary, looking so longfully at something that he is not part of.

[Lizzie Peabody]

It's the distillation of yearning.

[Jim Deutsch]

Yes. The sense of wistfulness, nostalgia. But also, as we're saying, you know, looking back at the year that has just passed, but looking forward with some optimism and hope for the future. One of the other traditions at New Year's is we set resolutions. You know, what shall we do in the year ahead to make our lives better and more meaningful?

[Lizzie Peabody]

Yeah.

[Jim Deutsch]

Should old acquaintance be for God and never brought to mind? Should old acquaintance be forgot and days of old language. I think Auld Lang Syne, as we're saying, is a wonderful way of both looking back at the year that has just ended and looking forward to the new year. And it's not insignificant that the first month of the new year is January, which is named for the Roman God Janus, who was two faced. One direction looking back and one direction looking forward.

[Lizzie Peabody]

You know, this may not be the last song that our listeners hear this year, but it is the last side door episode that they will hear in this calendar year. So I feel that this is a nice note to go out on.

[Jim Deutsch]

No pun intended.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Yeah. Oh, pun. I'll pretend that I intended the pun. Thanks so much, Jim, for talking with us.

[Jim Deutsch]

You're most welcome, Lizzy. It's always a pleasure to be on.

[Lizzie Peabody]

One of our podcasts and Happy New Year.

[Jim Deutsch]

And Happy New Year.

[Lizzie Peabody]

And because Auld Lang Syne does have a bit of a melancholy edge to it, I wanted to end this episode with one of my favorite favorite recordings of it. This is from the Folkways catalog and it's a bluegrass banjo recording from the 1970s. This is a version that makes me want to start the new year dancing. So if you want to, you can get up and boogie with me.

[Dallas Taylor]

That story came from side Door, a fantastic podcast from the Smithsonian. On their show, host Lizzie Peabody sneaks listeners through the Smithsonian side door to search for stories that can't be found anywhere else. In recent episodes, they investigated a monkey kidnapping mystery and explored how America became obsessed with martial arts. To hear more, follow side Door right here in your podcast player. 20,000 Hz is produced by my sound agency, Defacto Sound. Hear [e-mail] or by following Defacto Sound on Instagram.

[Lizzie Peabody]

Side Door is produced by James Morrison and me, Lizzie Peabody. Our associate producer is Natalie Boyd, who really led the charge on this episode. Executive producer is Anne Kanan. Our editorial team is Jess Sodic and and Sharon Bryant. Tammy o' Neil writes our newsletter. Episode artwork is by Dave Leonard. Our show is mixed by Tarek Fuda. Our theme song and episode music are by Breakmaster Cylinder. Special thanks this episode to Jim Deutch at the Smithsonian center for Folklife and Cultural Heritage. Other music you heard in this episode comes from the Library of Congress and Smithsonian Folkways Recordings. I'm your host, Lizzie Peabody.

[Dallas Taylor]

And I'm Dallas Taylor. Thanks for listening. Before we go, a reminder that the best way to support 20,000Hz is to sign up for our ad free feed. Visit 20K to sign up or just tap subscribe in Apple podcasts for just five bucks a month, you can help make sure that 20,000 Hertz can keep telling these stories all through 2026 and beyond. Again, that's 20K dot org plus. Finally, be sure to tell your friends and family about our show. Some people hear the name 20,000 Hz and immediately think we're a technical show made for audio experts. But if you're hearing this, then you know that's not true. We're an accessible show aimed at helping everyone appreciate the of sound. So when you tell them, be sure to mention that Thanks.