Ted Bundy: One of America’s Most Infamous Serial Killers

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Twisted Tales with Heidi Wong (Crime House Original)

Episode: Ted Bundy: One of America’s Most Infamous Serial Killers

Date: April 1, 2026
Host: Katie Ring (America’s Most Infamous Crimes)
Special Introduction: Heidi Wong

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Episode Overview

This episode launches a three-part deep dive on Ted Bundy, one of the most infamous serial killers in American history. The host, Katie Ring—on her podcast America’s Most Infamous Crimes—examines Bundy’s early life, formative traumas, escalating criminal behavior, and psychological profile. The episode focuses on Bundy’s origins, his descent into sadistic violence, and how he masked his monstrous impulses behind a charming façade.

Theme:

"Reality is the real horror.” – Heidi Wong

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bundy’s Deceptive Persona & Social Fascination

• Ted Bundy “hid in plain sight,” appearing educated, clean-cut, charismatic, and even attractive to many ([01:51]).
• Public fascination with Bundy isn’t just about the brutality of his crimes, but the chilling fact that a monster can look so utterly normal.
  • Notable Quote:

  “Some killers hide in the shadows. Ted Bundy hid in plain sight.” —Katie Ring ([01:51])

2. Troubled Origins, Identity, and Psychological Wounds

• Bundy’s mother, Louise, had him out of wedlock in 1946; to escape stigma, Bundy was raised believing his grandparents were his parents, and his mother was his sister ([05:26]).
• Family environment was turbulent: grandfather Samuel had a violent temper and was abusive towards both people and animals.
• Early disturbing anecdote: At age three, Bundy’s aunt awoke to him standing over her, grinning and arranging butcher knives around her body ([05:26]).
  • Notable Quote:

  “As Julia squinted in the darkness, she saw Ted with a huge smile on his face and then realized she was surrounded by butcher knives.” —Katie Ring ([05:26])

• Multiple moves, discovery of his true parentage, and family instability led to long-lasting feelings of betrayal and rejection.

3. Early Isolation and Progression of Deviant Behavior

• Adolescence: Bundy was intelligent and outwardly charming but deeply insecure, becoming increasingly isolated ([05:26]).
• Early signs of voyeurism: “Instead of letting himself be vulnerable, he started sneaking out at night...peeping on [women] as they got dressed” ([05:26]).
  • Bundy’s fantasies centered on domination and control.

4. College Years: Failed Reinventions and Early Violence

• Attended University of Puget Sound, then transferred to University of Washington.
• Struggled with aimlessness and inability to develop healthy relationships.
• First serious girlfriend, Diane Edwards, provided temporary focus, but her eventual rejection deepened Bundy’s insecurity ([12:22]).
• Dropped out, drifted, and eventually tried to channel ambition into politics—a quest for power and respectability.
• Move to Temple University in Philadelphia led to escalation: Bundy began stalking, donning disguises, and his fantasies intensified to include abduction and rape.
• First attempted abduction in 1969 failed, but emboldened Bundy ([12:22]).

5. The “Double Life” and Bundy’s Calculated Deceptions

• Returned to Washington and began dating Elizabeth Kloepfer, presenting as a devoted partner while living a secret predatory life ([12:22]).
• Masked his impulses with civic involvement—volunteered for crime prevention efforts, cultivated a “normal” persona, and networked in politics.

6. First Known Attacks and Escalation to Murder

• January 1974: Attacked Karen Sparks, an 18-year-old student; left her comatose but alive ([21:20]).
  • “He'd pushed his obsession with peeping to its limit, but it wasn't enough for him...He slipped through an unlocked door...” ([21:20])
• February 1974: Murdered Linda Ann Healy, his first confirmed homicide victim, after abducting her from her home ([21:20]).

7. Psychological Commentary & Listener Q&A

• Discussion on the interplay between Bundy’s upbringing, possible trauma, psychopathy, and development of sadistic behaviors ([25:57]).
  • Psychopathy may have biological as well as environmental roots; many people with abusive pasts do not become violent ([27:00]).
  • Bundy’s ability to “blend in” credited to his skill at mimicking normal emotional responses and developing charismatic social skills.
  • Notable exploration of whether a loving household or early intervention could have changed Bundy’s trajectory; discussion tempered with the uncertainty of such hypotheticals ([30:05]).
• Bundy’s victim choices often reflected unresolved issues with women from his past, particularly his ex-girlfriend ([29:44]).
• Traditional therapy has little evidence of success with adult psychopaths, but early interventions for children with similar traits may offer hope ([30:05]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Bundy’s Normalcy as a Mask:

  “They can look like your neighbor, your co-worker, your classmate, or even your partner.” —Katie Ring ([01:51])

• On Bundy’s formative trauma:

  “Whatever was going on in that household did have an effect on him psychologically.” —Katie Ring ([05:26])

• On escalation:

  “It was supposed to be a fresh start, but it was a confusing adjustment for Ted. Remember, he still thought his grandparents were his biological parents.” —Katie Ring ([05:26])

• On his predatory planning:

  “He learned about the investigative techniques detectives commonly used and that communication between different jurisdictions was limited.” —Katie Ring ([12:22])

• Reflecting on why Bundy fascinates:

  “Before cases like this, many people imagined serial killers as monsters or some, like, obvious weirdos. But Bundy didn’t fit that image. He was educated, he fit in socially. He had relationships and was even described as charming or even attractive, which I do not agree with. But that’s what some people thought.” —Katie Ring ([27:00])

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• 00:00–01:38: Introduction by Heidi Wong and show context
• 01:51: Katie Ring introduction and warning about disturbing content
• 05:26: Bundy’s early childhood—origins, family deception, early signs of deviance
• 12:22: College life, first relationships, escalation in behavior, failed ambitions
• 21:20: Descriptions of first known attacks on Karen Sparks and Linda Ann Healy
• 25:57–32:03: Q&A with psychology expert—nature vs. nurture, psychopathy, victim selection, therapy, Bundy’s legacy

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Episode Tone & Style

Katie Ring’s narrative is matter-of-fact but atmospheric—grounded in meticulous detail and psychological curiosity, giving listeners a disturbing but nuanced portrait of Bundy’s life. A recurring theme is the banality of evil: the ease with which Bundy blended in and gained trust.

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Closing Notes

• The story continues in subsequent episodes, delving further into Bundy’s crimes and ultimate downfall.
• Listeners are invited to submit questions and comments for future Q&A segments.

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If you missed the episode, this summary brings you the key facts, chilling anecdotes, expert insight, and the psychological complexity of Ted Bundy’s story—while highlighting why his case remains one of the most disturbing in American criminal history.

Transcript

[Heidi Wong]

Hi listeners, it's Heidi Wong.

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Real quick, before today's episode of Twisted Tales, I wanted to tell you about another show from Crime House that I know you'll love. America's Most Infamous Crimes. Hosted by Katie Ring. Each week Katie takes on one of the most notorious criminal cases in American history. Serial killers who terrorize cities, unsolved mysteries that keep detectives up at night, and investigations that change the way we think about justice. Listen to and follow America's Most Infamous crimes Tuesday through Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Hi Crime House community, it's Heidi Wong. I've got something really special for you today. If you're enjoying Twisted Tales, then I know you'll love this new podcast from Crime House. It's called America's Most Infamous Crimes, hosted by Katy Ring. Each week Katie investigates a notorious crime, whether unfolding now or etched into American history. Revealing not just what happened, but how it forever changed our our society. From serial killers like Ted Bundy who terrorized entire cities, to high profile kidnappings like the Elizabeth Smart case, to headline making investigations like the Idaho College murders, each case unfolds across multiple episodes released every Tuesday through Thursday. From the first sign that something was wrong to the moment that the truth came out or didn't. These are the stories behind the headlines. I have episode one for you right now where Katy begins her deep dive into the case of Ted Bundy. If you like what you hear and want to hear the next parts make, make sure to follow America's Most Infamous Crimes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you listen to your podcasts. There's also a link to the show

[Heidi Wong]

in this episode's description.

[Crime House Announcer]

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[Katie Ring]

Some killers hide in the shadows. Ted Bundy hid in plain sight. He was educated, clean cut, charismatic, and even considered attractive by some. The fascination surrounding him isn't just about the crimes he committed, but the unsettling realization that evil people don't always look like monsters. They can look like your neighbor, your co worker, your classmate, or even your partner. Every crime tells a story about the people involved, the system that tried to stop it, and the nation that couldn't look away. Some cases are so shocking, so de deeply woven into who we are, that decades later, we're still asking, how did this happen? I'm Katie Ring and this is America's Most Infamous Crimes. Every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, I'll take you deep into the cases that have a lasting imprint on society and still haunt us today. I want to thank you for being part of the Crime House community. Please rate, review and follow America's most infamous crimes wherever you get your podcasts and to get all episodes at once ad free. Subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. Before I get started, please be advise that this episode contains descriptions of physical and sexual assault and murder, so please listen with care. This is the first of our three episodes on Ted Bundy, one of the most notorious serial killers of all time. Today I'll talk about his twisted origins, his descent into darkness, and what turned him into one of America's most terrifying murderers.

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From the moment Ted Bundy was born, he was surrounded by lies. Ted's mom, Louise, got pregnant in early 1946, but his dad abandoned them, which meant Ted was born out of wedlock that November. This was a huge scandal that could have destroyed their family. To avoid the stigma that came with being a young single mother, Ted's grandparents raised him as their own son in Philadelphia. He actually spent his early life thinking Louise was his older sister and not his mother. In interviews, Ted claimed that his upbringing was completely normal. But according to some family members and biographers, Ted's grandfather Samuel was known to have a violent temper, was racist and misogynistic, and would even harm animals. And despite Bundy's claims, it seemed like whatever was going on in that household did have an effect on him psychologically. One night in 1950, when Ted was just three years old, his teenage aunt Julia recalled waking up and seeing him standing next to her bed. But he wasn't there because he couldn't sleep or to ask for a glass of water. As Julia squinted in the darkness, she saw Ted with a huge smile on his face and then realized she was surrounded by butcher knives. Of course, I'm not a psychologist, but this is not something that a three year old generally thinks to do on their own. They learn by copying behaviors they've seen. So to me, this would indicate that something very wrong was going on in that house. Luckily, Ted didn't try and hurt Julia that night. But even with these signs that something was clearly wrong, his family didn't get him any help. In fact, things only got less stable for him over time. In 1951, when Ted was just 4, he and Louise, who's still pretending to be his sister, left Philadelphia and moved to Washington State. It was supposed to be a fresh start, but it was a confusing adjustment for Ted. Remember, he still thought his grandparents were his biological parents. To him, it seemed like his older sister was separating him from his mom and dad. This was just another moment of perceived betrayal that he'd remember for the rest of his life. And things only got more confusing from there. Shortly after moving, Louise met a guy named Johnny Bundy at church. But it wasn't long before things got serious. They got married after just a few months of dating, and Johnny even adopted Ted. But Ted never really accepted Johnny as his father. He thought he was unintelligent and resented him for not being able to provide him with the expensive clothes and items that he wanted. Friends even recall Ted provoking Johnny and Johnny sometimes responding with violence. They looked like a happy family on the outside. But Ted was just as miserable as he'd been in Philly. And things only got worse when Ted found his birth certificate one day. That's when he learned the truth. That his birth father had abandoned him and his older sister was actually his mom. As you'd expect, it turned his world upside down. Ted became consumed by his bitterness. He felt rejected and insecure. And as a teenager, he developed a reputation for being kind of a loner. His attitude was strange to his classmates because on the surface, Ted seemed to have it all. He was smart, good looking, and well spoken. A lot of the girls at his high school wondered why he'd never went on dates. That's the thing about insecurity, though, it isn't always rational. Despite everything he had going for him, Ted never felt like he fit in, especially around young women. He was interested in girls, but Ted wasn't able to express those desires in a healthy way. He was more comfortable being on the outside, looking in somewhere. He was in control. So instead of letting himself be vulnerable, he started sneaking out at night to take walks around his neighborhood, stalking women and peeping on them as they got dressed. He'd fantasize about dominating these women and controlling them. He graduated high school in 1965 when he was 18 with average grades and moved on to the University of Puget Sound in Tacoma, Washington. A lot of young people treat college as a fresh start, a way to reinvent themselves, but not Ted. He felt lonely and aimless. He couldn't decide on a major and had trouble making friends. Ted thought that getting a girlfriend would solve a lot of issues, both in terms of his identity crisis and his urge to peep on women. He decided that if he was going to really make a major change in his life, he had to push himself further out of his comfort zone. So in 1966, when Ted was 20, he transferred to the University of Washington in Seattle. But instead of fixing his problems, it only made them worse.

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[Katie Ring]

After Ted Bundy transferred to the University of Washington, it seemed like the move to Seattle was a fresh start. He decided to study Chinese, thinking he could work in the State Department someday as a liaison to East Asia. It might seem like kind of a random choice, but with Ted, everything was calculated in his mind. Working for the government was the kind of position that would give him the authority and control he wanted so badly. The change of scenery also helped Ted get something else. He wanted a girlfriend. It wasn't long before he hit it off with a classmate named Diane Edwards, a beautiful, driven young woman from a wealthy California family. When they started dating, it seemed like Ted finally found everything he wanted. But the problem was he didn't feel like he was good enough for Diane. She Expected a lot from a boyfriend, and he tried to live up to those expectations by dressing better and improving his conversational skills. But he couldn't handle the pressure. Sometime in 1967, when Ted was 20 or 21, he was starting to question everything, including his career goals. His grades took a nosedive, and he was still overcome with unhealthy sexual desires. Ted thought that having a loving girlfriend would stop him from fantasizing about violence. But now he was afraid that those thoughts would never truly go away. Things only got worse when Diane dumped Ted after about a year of dating. The breakup confirmed his worst insecurities, and instead of proving them wrong, he gave in to them. The next year, in 1968, Ted dropped out of college. He spent the next few months traveling aimlessly around the country, not doing much of anything. But Ted hadn't completely given up on making something of himself. So when an old friend suggested getting involved in politics, he gave it a chance. Just like his dream of working for the State Department, being in politics would give Ted some of the authority and control he was so desperate for by giving him something to be in charge of. He started out by volunteering for Arthur Fletcher's campaign for Lieutenant Governor of Washington. Fletcher didn't win, but Ted loved the experience anyways. It gave him the sense of purpose he'd been missing ever since his breakup with Diane. So he decided to give a career in politics a real shot. In 1969, when Ted was 22, he enrolled at Temple University in Philadelphia to pursue a degree in urban planning. But even with his renewed sense of purpose, he still struggled with the darkness inside of him. He went back to his old habit of peeping, wearing a fake mustache and a wig while he stalked the campus at night. By this point, his sexual fantasies had become even more disturbing. Now he wasn't just thinking about abducting the women he stalked. He wanted to sexually abuse them and kill them, too. And at some point during his first semester in Philadelphia, Ted decided to give in to those desires. One night in 1969, the 23 year old drove to Ocean City, New Jersey, and tried to approach a young woman outside of a bar. His plan was to kidnap her once her guard was down. But apparently, the conversation didn't go the way he planned. Eventually, Ted tried to grab the woman, but she was thankfully able to escape. Meanwhile, Ted rushed back home and managed not to get caught. Tragically, the experience only made him more determined to try again. After only a couple months at Temple University, Ted moved back to Washington with a new scheme by Day, he would work hard to appear as normal as possible, to seem like he was above suspicion. Once that image was in place, he could unleash his dark side at night. A Persona he called the entity that was the real Ted Bundy. The one he'd been struggling to contain all his life. And now he was ready to embrace it. The first step of Ted's plan was to find another steady girlfriend. In September of 1969, he met a divorced single mother named Elizabeth Claire Kleppfer at a bar. 24 year old Elizabeth was smart and mature. She had to be to take care of her three year old daughter all on her own. From the moment they started dating, Elizabeth was clear she was looking for something serious. So if Ted expected to stay with her, he would need to get his act together. That played right into Ted's hands. He told Elizabeth he was planning to go back to college, then law school after he graduated. And Elizabeth took him at his word. She had so much faith in him, she even paid his tuition. When he went back to the University of Washington in 1970, Ted's twisted plan had finally given him the motivation he needed to succeed. He became an honor student, got involved in local politics, and was seen as a rising star in the community. Which was exactly what Ted wanted people to think. Nobody suspected that this clean cut, respectable young man was going out at night, watching young women in bars and following them home. Sometimes he went up to his targets while they were still at the bar and took them out on dates if they were interested. He cheated on Elizabeth constantly with multiple one night stands. On top of that, he loved to steal from people just for the thrill of it. He robbed homes and shoplifted from businesses, taking things like clothes, stereos and even an eight foot tree from a local nursery. Elizabeth never knew about the cheating, although she did pick up on the rampant theft. It bothered her, but she mostly dismissed it as a small flaw in her otherwise perfect boyfriend. It actually distracted her from prying into what he got up to at night. They didn't live together, but whenever she noticed he was out late, she assumed he was going around stealing rather than doing something much worse. So for the next few years, Ted kept living his double life. In 1972, he graduated from the University of Washington and was accepted to a couple of law schools. At 26 years old, he finally felt like he was making something of himself. But it still wasn't enough. Ted's impulses were getting even darker and it wouldn't be long before he unleashed them. He'd later Describe the dark feeling inside of him as an intense pressure in his gut, like a tension that kept winding tighter and tighter. He was consumed with rage and no amount of peeping, stealing or fantasizing could make it go away. Ted wanted to up the ante even more, but he'd learned from his first attempt to kidnap a woman that things might not go the way he planned. Ted was a planner and as always, he wanted to be prepared for every possibility. To make sure he didn't get caught, he decided to learn everything he could about how the Plan police operated. So Ted deferred his law school admission and used his political connections to get a job with the Seattle Crime Prevention Advisory Commission. Working there gave Ted access to all kinds of data on violent crime. He learned about the investigative techniques detectives commonly used and that communication between different jurisdictions was limited. After About a year, 26 year old Ted felt like he'd learned what he needed. He left the crime commission and enrolled at a local law school in the fall of 1973. But his concentration was starting to waver. His desire to dominate and destroy was overwhelming him. And in early 1974, Ted took it to another level.

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On the night of January 4, 1974, Ted drove to the University District in Seattle, a neighborhood that was popular with students. Ted liked to peep on young women there, and that night he decided to prey on 18 year old Karen Sparks, a freshman political science major who lived in the basement of a house she shared with some friends. Karen was pretty brunette and had her hair parted down the middle. From far away, she looked a lot like Ted's ex girlfriend, Diane Edwards. Whether that was Ted's reason for choosing Karen, he was dangerously fixated on her. He followed Karen home, blending in with all of the other students who were out that night. He hung back as Karen went inside and got ready for bed, then watched her sleep through a small window. It wasn't long before he was overwhelmed by rage and desire. He slipped through an unlocked door on the opposite side of the house, then made his way to Karen's room. It would have only taken one creaky floorboard or someone heading to the kitchen for a late night snack to stop him. But the place was quiet as Ted crept down to the basement completely undetected. For a moment, Ted just watched Karen sleep. He'd pushed his obsession with peeping to its limit, but it wasn't enough for him. All of a sudden, he ripped off a piece of her bed frame and swung it into Karen's skull before she could even take a look at her attacker. Karen went limp, blood seeping into her mattress. Ted sexually assaulted her, beat her even more, then left her for dead. Once he finished, he sneaked back out as quietly as he'd entered. For hours, none of Karen's housemates realized something was wrong. It wasn't until 2:30 the following afternoon that someone noticed that she hadn't come out of her room. One of the young men who lived with her peeked inside and saw Karen bundled up in bed, covered by a pile of blankets. He figured she was sleeping and left her alone. But five hours later, so this would be around 7:30pm, she was still there. At that point, someone went back in to check on Karen. When she didn't answer, they pulled back her blankets and realized what had happened to her. Miraculously, Karen was still alive. Although she'd fallen into a coma, she was rushed to the hospital as news spread around campus that a young woman had been attacked. The police launched an investigation, but there wasn't much to go on. Ted hadn't left anything behind at the scene. And these were the days before DNA profiling, although Ted certainly hadn't planned For Karen to survive the attack. His horrific plan had otherwise gone just as he'd wanted. Even after Karen woke up from her coma 10 days later, she wasn't able to identify him. So after less than a month, he decided it was time to strike again. After midnight on February 1, 1974, Ted went back to the same neighborhood where he'd nearly killed Karen Sparks. He ended up only a couple minutes away from her house, outside another basement apartment. This one belonged to 21 year old Linda Ann Healy, A senior at Washington University. Linda had gone out with some friends to a popular college bar called Dante's. After some drinks and dancing, she called it an early night. She watched TV with her roommate, then chatted with her boyfriend on the phone for about an hour before falling asleep. Linda had no idea that the whole time, Ted Bundy had been stalking her and he was desperate for another victim. That night, Linda and her housemates had left their front door unlocked, and Ted was able to enter without anybody noticing. He made his way to Linda's room and beat her until she was unconscious. But he'd learned from his experience with Karen Sparks. Instead of continuing his assault in Linda's room, he dressed her in a blouse and jeans and cleaned up the evidence as best he could, including making her bed. Then he dragged her out into the night. Ted managed to get Linda in his car and drove to a secluded spot where he knew nobody would find them. There, he sexually assaulted and murdered her. Afterwards, he dismembered her body, scattering the remains off to the side of the road on Taylor Mountain, about 18 miles from Seattle. He raced back home to his girlfriend Elizabeth, and climbed into bed like nothing was wrong. Linda Ann Healy was officially Ted Bundy's first confirmed murder victim. But she wouldn't be his last. For this show, we're going to be doing a Q and A at the end of each episode. So if you have any questions or comments, make sure to let us know on social so we can talk about them at the end.

[Psychology Expert]

In cases like these, you have to ask yourself what would have happened if Ted Bundy was raised in a loving, supportive household? What do you think he would have been like?

[Katie Ring]

To preface this, I'm not a forensic psychologist, but I do love forensic psychology. And the hard thing with Ted Bundy's story is that there are a lot of conflicting accounts. As I said earlier, Ted claims that his childhood was completely normal, that he had no abuse, and that nothing in his childhood affected the crimes he did later in his life. There are, however, other accounts from family members and Biographers that his grandfather was abusive. So we have that conflicting thing. But when it comes to serial killers, we see a lot of abuse earlier in life. But the other hand, there's a lot of people who have had and experienced much more severe abuse that haven't turned out to be serial killers.

[Psychology Expert]

It's terrifying to see how calculated Ted was, how everything he did was for the sole purpose of getting away with being a serial killer. How do you think he managed to appear so normal externally for as long as he did?

[Katie Ring]

Most psychologists say that Ted Bundy showed strong signs of psychopathy. And one thing that's interesting is that researchers are now suggesting that traits of psychopathy actually have biological components, particularly in how the brain is wired. So, on one hand, we have people who have been severely abused in childhood who have not become serial killers or even violent. And on the other side, we do have psychopaths who have grown up in seemingly normal houses and have become serial killers. So I believe that upbringing doesn't determine everything, but it can shape how traits unfold, like abuse, Attachment disruption, identity confusion, and abandonment can all impact development in meaningful ways. So could a loving, stable household have changed his path? Possibly. But the short and somewhat unsatisfying answer is that we'll never know. So, going back to psychopathy, many psychopaths actually have an unsettling ability to blend in. So, as children, a lot of them are looked at as weird or don't fit in. But over time, they're able to observe how people have interpersonal relationships, and they can actually model that very well. So even though they may not feel emotions deeply, they can perform them very convincingly. And a lot of them aren't just good at blending in. They are actually very charismatic, charming, and even magnetic. So I think that's part of the reason Ted Bundy's story fascinated people so much, because before cases like this, many people imagined serial killers as monsters or some, like, obvious weirdos. But Bundy didn't fit that image. Like, he was educated, he fit in socially. He had relationships and was even described as charming or even attractive, which I do not agree with. But that's what some people thought regarding the fact that a lot of his actions seemed very calculated in not getting caught. We do see most serial killers creating kind of Personas to hide their crimes. But Bunny did take it further. He tended to gravitate towards positions of authority. He wanted to get into politics. He studied law. He volunteered with the Seattle police department. These all gave him credibility and a sense of power. But in my opinion, it's not supported by any facts, but I believe that he did get kind of a thrill of being in these positions of authority, but also getting away with his primes like right under their noses.

[Psychology Expert]

His choice of victim does seem to be clear how he went after women who were stand ins for his girlfriend or maybe his mom, women he felt like had wronged him, and how he wanted to ultimately have control over them. It makes you wonder again about the psychology behind killers with this mindset and if things could have been different if he'd gotten the help he clearly needed. What do you think?

[Katie Ring]

As we kind of discussed earlier in the episode, a lot of his victims did resemble his ex girlfriend. And one thing that I didn't know before I did this deep dive for this episode is that he actually won back that girlfriend that originally broke up with him. And he won her back, proposed to her, and then completely ghosted her with no explanation. And given his psychopathy and his narcissistic traits, that doesn't surprise me at all. Many psychologists interpret that as an attempt to reclaim power and control. So it's not about love, it's kind of about winning and punishment. So although he never said he chose victims that reminded him of his ex, I think that there was something inside of him that did want to punish her and that's why he chose some victims that resembled her. Unfortunately, traditional therapy hasn't been very successful with psychopaths. However, there are studies on early intervention, especially focused on parenting, social skills and emotional regulation that have shown promising results. So again, we never know whether early interventions would have actually helped or not. But there is some promising research that maybe in the future we can help lead kids with these traits in a better direction. Okay, we're about to go over the time limit, but I will be breaking down some more of my thoughts or your guys questions in the next episodes as well as some of my top safety tips as a self defense instructor. Thanks so much for joining me for this episode. If you're watching on YouTube, make sure to subscribe. If you're listening on audio, please rate, review and follow America's Most Infamous Crimes and to get all of the episodes at once ad free. Subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. Come back tomorrow for episode two on Ted Bundy.

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[Katie Ring]

I'm Katie Ring, host of America's Most Infamous Crimes. Each week I take on one of the most notorious criminal cases in American history. Listen to and follow America's Most Infamous Crimes available now wherever you get your podcasts.

[Heidi Wong]

Looking for your next listen? Check out hidden history with Dr. Harumi Bhatt every Monday. Dr. Bhat goes where history gets mysterious vanished civilizations, doomsday prophecies, and events that science still can't fully explain. Follow Hidden History now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.