Episode 346 - The Bélmez Faces: A Mystery Etched in Stone

Summary

Two Girls One Ghost – Episode 346

The Bélmez Faces: A Mystery Etched in Stone

Release Date: November 2, 2025
Hosts: Corinne Vien & Sabrina Deana-Roga

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Corinne and Sabrina dive deep into the chilling legend of the Bélmez Faces, a decades-long paranormal phenomenon in a small Spanish village where mysterious faces appeared in a kitchen’s concrete floor. The hosts blend thorough research, skepticism, and listener stories, exploring the intersection of folklore, faith, science, and the unexplained. Alongside the main story, they read chilling listener submissions on hauntings and demonic phenomena, prompting discussion about skepticism, belief, and protecting oneself from the supernatural.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Catch-up and Podcast Update (02:00-04:22)

• The hosts banter about their new cozy recording setup.
• They share excitement about recently appearing on a Times Square billboard, reflecting on their journey from a "small podcast" to the "bottom of the top 1%."
  • Quote: “I do miss the days... we’re still relatable, you guys. Just. Cause we’re in a billboard.” (04:20, Corinne)

2. The Power of Signs and Ghost Tube Messages (04:23–08:06)

• Sabrina shares a heartfelt listener message (from Brandi) about receiving comforting words via the Ghost Tube in a prior episode—felt as a message from a departed father.
• Discussion on being receptive to signs from spirits and the importance of slowing down to notice them.
  • Quote: “It’s an opportunity for spirits to use the energy of everyone who listens to kind of channel messages through to the people that need them.” (06:16, Corinne)

3. Introduction to the Bélmez Faces Haunting (08:21–10:29)

• Corinne sets the scene: 1971, southern Spain, oppressive summer heat, and stone homes designed for coolness.
• Inside one such home, housewife María Gómez Cámara discovers a human face appearing in her kitchen's cement floor.
  • Quote: “There’s a face, hollow eyes, mouth open, pressed into the concrete as if trying to breathe through the stone.” (10:05, Corinne)

4. The Faces Multiply & The Village Responds (10:30–15:02)

• María attempts to scrub and even scrape away the face—unsuccessfully.
• Her husband resorts to breaking up the concrete, only for new, different faces to manifest soon after.
• The haunting quickly becomes local spectacle; neighbors, priests, and eventually the mayor get involved.
• The faces’ appearance prompts debate: miracle or menace, during a time of strict Catholicism and Franco’s dictatorship.

5. The Haunting Deepens: Bones Beneath the Floor (16:05–17:20)

• Officials excavate the kitchen floor, discovering 13th-century human remains beneath—the house was built atop a former cemetery.

6. Ongoing Phenomenon and Public Fascination (17:20– 23:00)

• Faces continue to form, change expressions, and sometimes shift locations on the floor.

• The kitchen becomes a tourist and pilgrimage site; ongoing public and scientific scrutiny.

• Visitors describe faces as “anguished” or “serene,” with documented photographic evidence of faces morphing over weeks.

  • Skeptic Interjection: Sabrina expresses doubts, noting the faces look small and drawn, not like natural stains. She speculates about possible alternate realities intersecting (19:03).

7. Science & Parapsychology – Investigations and Theories (20:32–28:46)

• Multiple scientific tests are inconclusive. Chemists and parapsychologists examine the stones and rule out known chemicals or paint.
• Parapsychologist Germán de Argumosa theorizes that María was an unconscious medium manifesting faces through psychokinesis—a kind of “thought-ography”.
  • Quote: “She was projecting psychic energy… imprinting her subconscious mind onto the stone.” (29:08, Corinne)

8. Skepticism vs. Belief (28:46–34:40)

• Skeptics demonstrate faces could be faked using chemicals, but crucially, these compounds are absent in Bélmez.

• Most investigators can’t conclusively explain the phenomenon; María’s presence seems to directly influence the appearance/disappearance of faces.

• After María’s death in 2004, faces purportedly still appear, though some look more detailed—prompting further debate.

  • Memorable Moment: “If Maria was figuring out a way to do this and befuddle hundreds… go off, Maria!” (28:57, Sabrina)

9. Listener Submissions: Demonic Encounters and Hauntings (36:17–70:55)

Story from Jeremy (36:34–69:58)

• Jeremy recounts a multi-generational haunting and possession saga in his deeply religious family:
  • Early experiences: family members see shadowy men and a mysterious little girl in their Oklahoma home.
  • Most harrowing: A family friend becomes violently possessed—multiple witnesses see a shadowy, winged demon, followed by a “hat man” and little girl spirit fleeing the house.
  • Jeremy’s personal struggles: Continued, realistic sleep paralysis events featuring a shadow man, growing worse after keeping demonology books under his bed.
  • A terrifying episode: Jeremy encounters a demon bearing a sigil from one of his books, and hears a psychic message, “Next time, God won’t save you.”
    • Quote: “Go away, Satan, I’m not scared of you. …and the words that came out of the demon was not English… He told me, ‘next time, God won’t save you.’” (65:18, Jeremy via Sabrina)

Hosts give advice:

• Don’t engage or give power to negative entities.

• Encourage community and positive thought to “protect Jeremy,” and urge him to get rid of dangerous materials.

  • Quote: “We can all just group manifest thought. Power of thought to protect Jeremy.” (70:07, Sabrina)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [04:09] Corinne on podcast growth:
  “We are still a small podcast to toot our own horn.”

• [10:30] Corinne, describing the first face:
  “A face, hollow eyes, mouth open, pressed into the concrete as if trying to breathe through the stone.”

• [19:00] Sabrina, theorizing:
  “What if it’s not necessarily paranormal… but is it a timeline glitch where someone else in a different timeline lives in this home and they’re drawing on the kitchen floor?”

• [28:57] Sabrina, about María possibly hoaxing:
  “Go off, Maria… that’s so impressive. She’s like a magician.”

• [29:08] Corinne, on parapsychological theory:
  “She was projecting psychic energy psychokinesis and creating a thoughtographic phenomenon… imprinting her subconscious mind onto the stone.”

• [65:18] Jeremy via Sabrina, on facing the demon:
  “Go away, Satan, I’m not scared of you… and the words that came out of the demon was not English… He told me, ‘next time, God won’t save you.’”

• [70:07] Sabrina, community support:
  “We can all just group manifest thought. Power of thought to protect Jeremy.”

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:00 – Hosts catch up on new setup and Times Square milestone
• 04:23 – Listener story: Ghost Tube delivers a meaningful message
• 08:21 – Introduction to the Bélmez Faces story
• 10:30 – Discovery of the first face; local and religious reactions
• 15:02 – Faces return after being destroyed; city officials respond
• 16:37 – Discovery of bones beneath the floor
• 17:20 – Faces continue, become a tourist attraction
• 20:32 – Scientific/chemical analysis: nothing unusual found
• 21:34 – Parapsychology theories; María’s possible psychic link
• 28:46 – Skeptic vs. believer perspectives, curious forensics
• 32:09 – Faces continue to change shape, hosts compare with pareidolia
• 36:34 – Listener Story: Jeremy’s multi-generational haunting & possession
• 65:18 – Jeremy’s direct, terrifying encounter with a demonic entity
• 70:07 – Hosts offer advice, support, and community solidarity

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Tone & Style

As always, Corinne and Sabrina keep the discussion lighthearted and conversational, moving smoothly between grave, emotional listener stories and humorous asides—often joking about their own skepticism, podcast milestones, and supernatural hypotheses. They openly question, speculate, and empathize, making even the darkest cases approachable for listeners.

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Takeaways

• The Bélmez Faces is not only one of paranormal history’s most persistent mysteries, but also a lens on belief, skepticism, and community folklore.
• No scientific or supernatural theory fully explains the phenomenon; it remains compelling precisely because it defies clear answers.
• Listener stories remind us that grappling with the supernatural is deeply personal, shaped by belief, family history, and sometimes, powerfully distressing encounters.
• The TGOG community is a space for both belief and skepticism, as well as support for those dealing with the truly strange.

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Listener Call-to-Action

Have your own unexplained story or theory? The hosts encourage you to email them, with a promise of open-mindedness and belief—“If you feel like no one will believe [your story], we will.” For early, ad-free, and bonus content, listeners are invited to join their Patreon community.

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End of Summary

Transcript

[A]

It's Jonathan Van Ness from Getting Better. With Jonathan Van Ness, it's easy to feel hopeless, but we don't have to stay there. I'm all about finding places where we can turn that energy into hope and into action. One of those places is Americans United for Separation of Church and State. Americans United, or au is this quiet but mighty force working every day to preserve freedom without favor and equality without exception. I am so obsessed with that tagline. And let me tell you something, honey, that wall between church and state, paper thin. It's got a leak, honey. It's one of the last safeguards protecting so many of our rights. So right now, from bodily autonomy to LGBTQ + rights to the future of public schools, to me, this is about creating a world where everyone gets to live as themselves. As long as you're not harming anyone else. Now is not the time to curl up and hide. It's the time to link arms and stand together for a better future. Join Americans United for Separation of Church and State. And their growing movement because church, state separation protects us all. Learn more and join [e-mail] better. Let's go. Americans United.

[B]

Every now and then I rinse it out and I need downy r tonight and I need it more My kid was so bad and the smell never.

[C]

Leaves.

[B]

I don't know what to do I'm always in the dark the sweat and dead short smells like a dark, dark I'm downy ring tonight.

[C]

Downy rinse fights stubborn odors in just one wash when impossible odors get stuck Stuck in. Very spooky.

[B]

Hi.

[C]

Hello, everyone.

[B]

This is Two Girls, One Ghost.

[C]

Two Girls, One Ghost. And we have a new setup, if you can't tell.

[B]

Yeah. Which. We have a couch. And we haven't figured anything else out around it.

[C]

We wanted to be cozier and we wanted to be closer to each other and look at each other and be able to touch.

[B]

We're like, almost further away at this.

[C]

Current moment, at this current junction in time.

[B]

In a month's time, we promise you, we'll have new mic stands, we'll get cozy, we'll have something to put our computer on, and things will look so professed. So professed.

[C]

Because that's us. We're professional.

[B]

And I do wanna say.

[C]

What do you wanna say?

[B]

Two girls, one ghost.

[C]

Two girls, one ghost. And we are your ghostesses. That is Corinne. Hello, I'm Sabrina. And we're no longer in costume today.

[B]

No. But this is what I was going to say. Which was exactly what I just said. To you before. So we had a Times Square billboard. Whoa.

[C]

Whoa.

[B]

Holy fucking shit. We went down to New York and saw our billboard shout out to Amazon Music.

[C]

They and Sony Music podcast.

[B]

Sony. We're with Sony. So Sony's our partner.

[C]

We're dating.

[B]

Partner.

[C]

Yeah, we're dating Sony.

[B]

We've been with them for about a year now. Things are working really well. We like them. I think they like us back.

[C]

I think so too.

[B]

But anyway, yeah, Sony and Amazon, I guess they're, you know, buddies. So they pulled some strings and we got to have a billboard, which was so incredible. But someone did.

[C]

Surreal.

[B]

It was so surreal. It was also awkward to be.

[C]

There's a photo. We should put it in the video. There's a photo where I'm like, I look. Ah. And that's truly how we felt. Yeah, we didn't post it because we were like, we probably shouldn't post this one. But I think it embodies how we really felt. It was scary.

[B]

It was so.

[C]

It felt not real.

[B]

There was a photographer there. Sony had their photographer come and, like, take pictures of us reacting to our billboard. So, like. Yeah, he captured the first couple seconds where we're both like. And then that picture is right after where we're like, oh, my God.

[C]

Realizing it.

[B]

This is huge. Our faces are huge. And everyone. There's strangers around us. But it was awesome. Anyway, one of our Patreon members was like, this is. Or maybe it was on Instagram, but someone had commented saying that we still feel like a small podcast. I do want to say we are still a small podcast to toot our own horn.

[C]

I will say of the amount of podcasts, we are in the top 1%, which is amazing. Yeah, but up there.

[B]

But there's also like, we're in the bottom.

[C]

We're in the bottom of the top 1%.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. I do miss the days we're still.

[B]

Relatable, you guys, Just. Cause we're in a billboard.

[C]

Okay. I did actually want to share something that came into our inbox and made me really, really like. It moved me.

[B]

Oh.

[C]

Because I know some people felt overstimulated by the ghost tube going on in episodes during October, which.

[B]

Which me too.

[C]

Us too. We were overstimulated by everything.

[B]

Ignore half of this.

[C]

Costumes, ghost tube, hauntings. It was a lot. But this is about how our ghost tube actually shared a message with one of our listeners who needed it. No way. This is from our listener, Brandi, and it's from our Haunted with Haunted Objects that came out on October 7th. Hi girls. I've been listening to you for a couple of years and I'm not too much of a believer. I used to be, but I do love the intention setting you do because this is what got me through hard times when I was more scared of what you might call dimensions that we can't see around us. Anyway, I'm listening to you talk about booboo and how Boo Boo's not able to come home. Then it said Brandy, which is our listener's name. Then it said Garden. And I really think it was my dad. My dad passed away a few years ago and while a big gruff dude, he was one of those girl dads that was my big guy, my protector, my person who would worry and work to protect and help me. And I'm a grown ass 43 year old mom, but I still sometimes cry because I want my daddy. Yeah, today was one of those days. I woke up feeling that way. The last few days have been those kind of days. I grew up in Oklahoma and lived in basically the south all of my life until three years ago when we moved to Oregon. I try my best to embrace this place, but it's not home. And there's no one to come home to in Oklahoma anymore. So maybe it's all just a big coincidence. But Boo Boo, I feel your damn pain. Or I don't know. Thanks for channeling my dad for a minute. And the garden thing really stuck to me because that's how my dad would cope with all his depression. He'd get outside, be outdoors and garden.

[B]

Oh my gosh, this is so wonderful.

[C]

I know.

[B]

And I feel like it's also a good reminder that, yes, we are here to tell ghost stories and read people's ghost stories. But like, I think when it comes to paranormal activity and claiming ourselves to be the most haunted podcast in America, it's also just like, it's an opportunity for spirits to use the energy of everyone who listens to kind of channel messages through to the people that need them.

[C]

Mm.

[B]

Boo Boo. Boo Boo. We love you, Boo. And Brandi and Brandy's dad, we love you.

[C]

Yeah, no, and it really does make me think, you know, there are times where a certain episode won't play and it will go back to an old episode. And I really do believe that there's messages out there for us and if something like that happens, maybe just like roll with it, see what they're trying to say. I say this while also being like the most hypocritical person who is like, where's my Sign as my spirit guide's slapping me in the.

[B]

But yeah, sometimes you don't know what.

[C]

You don't know what you don't know.

[B]

Or, like, when you need something and how it's going to be delivered to you. And if you're open about the method of delivery and what exactly is being said if you look for the signs. One of our listeners, it was on Patreon, and now I can't remember his name, but on Campfire Stories, he was talking about just, like, all the different signs that he was getting. And I was like, let's just also recognize that you're consciously aware of the signs, too. Like, so many people would see all these numbers and see all these repeated things and maybe pay it no mind or not even notice.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's getting the signs that he's on the right path because he's also being, like, clocking that. Clocking that. I see this.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And recognizing it and being like, oh, that's my sign.

[C]

And I think the message, the way to do that is to, like, almost slow down, take in the world around you.

[B]

This is a good message for you, Sabrina. Who.

[C]

Who Slow as my spirit guides are smacking me in the face with, like, hey, say this thing. Listen to yourself.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Anyway, it's your turn to read to us.

[B]

Okay. I have a story for you. Sorry that I'm all, like, hunched over like a little gremlin, trying to.

[C]

You look comfy.

[B]

Do I?

[C]

To me, you look comfy. Are you not?

[B]

I'm like 60% comfort level.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I'm hunched. But we're here.

[C]

We're here.

[B]

It's the summer of 1971, southern Spain. Now, I haven't lived in Spain, but my cousin has, and my mom grew up. And southern Spain, I can picture it like, the way my mom described it was like, I mean, again, this was. My mom was in the 70s in southern Spain. It was like, the whole community's out. The kids are taking cups of sangria with alcohol in it. Like, everyone's just partying. It's super fun. Everyone's outside. It's lovely, but it's really freaking hot. Like, she used to talk about how you could fry an egg outside on the driveway. They would go crack an egg on.

[C]

The driveway because it was so hot.

[B]

And see how long it would take to cook. And so I was looking up this area of southern Spain at the time, and that is exactly the way it was. So temperatures were breaking a hundred by midday. Air conditioning was just, like, basically not a thing that was no, it still.

[C]

Isn'T really a thing in Europe.

[B]

No. So people would flock to the water, to the rooftops. They would hunker down in their stone walled homes. A lot of the homes were made of stone and concrete and, like, different mixtures of, you know, like colder clay and tile and stuff to make the inside colder. A lot of people had shutters, so they would close them, get relief from the heat. And so I think, you know, life moved slowly. But a lot of the summer was spent inside at the hottest part of the day, people taking their naps, people prepping for food, prepping for food, prepping their food to eat, prepping their food for meals to eat. And in Belmez de la Moraleda, a small farming village in Haiyan, a housewife leaned on her scrub brush, sweat stinging her eyes in the August heat. The stone kitchen floor had darkened beneath her. A stain now appearing at her feet. So she bends over a little bit closer, scrub brush in hand, and she starts to scrub at this mark. But it's not coming off. It's not dirt, it's not water, and it's not really a clean outline. So it doesn't look like it's painted or a coffee stain or wine. But there's a face, hollow eyes, mouth open, pressed into the concrete as if trying to breathe through the stone.

[C]

Great.

[B]

So she scrubs harder and harder, and the harder she scrubs, the clearer the face becomes. Neighbors would be called, Priests would arrive. And by nightfall, half the town had filed into her kitchen to look at the face that stared back. This is the Belmez Faces, one of the strangest haunting cases ever recorded, which I was shocked I'd never heard about it before. And this is a phenomenon that would span decades. It would draw scientists, priests, skeptics, tourists, and turn an ordinary woman's kitchen into a tourist attraction for the paranormal. Faces. Multiple faces. And I have. If you're watching on YouTube, this is a good one, because throughout this episode, I'm going to scatter in a bunch of pictures of the faces because this is a very well documented case. There are many photos.

[C]

Okay. Knowing nothing beyond what you just shared, here are the cases that we've talked about in the past that are flooding through my mind. And the bleeding house, I think we talked about with one strange thing. Laura Norton shared it with us.

[B]

Oh, yeah? Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Then what's that college with the face in the wall?

[B]

Is it like Flagler College or something?

[C]

Something.

[B]

Or is it in Texas? Yes. There's an entire.

[C]

It's like a concrete Wall where the face keeps coming through.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And then it also reminds me of the Lizzie Borden house, where there is a spot on the concrete wall where.

[B]

A face in the basement.

[C]

In the basement where no matter how.

[B]

Many times they scrub or repaint, it just continues to reemerge.

[C]

It's just so strange.

[B]

I know. And this is kind of like, especially in Spain, I think at this time, the conversation, too, was around, like, is this. It's largely Catholic. Right. So people were, you know, deeply Catholic. This was the time of Francisco Franco's dictatorship.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So they couldn't talk about politics, you know, they could just talk about miracles.

[C]

You said that like you know it so well. The dictatorship of Francisco Franco.

[B]

I feel like maybe I know it, like, better than the average person, but not super well. But just because I think my. My. It's. Cause my mom is Spain. So I hear stories and stuff about, like, her time in Spain, you know.

[C]

That time she grew up there as a kid. Okay.

[B]

So anyway, I think part of the reason why this became so popular, too, was because people were trying to figure out if this was like, a godly miracle. Was this, you know, an angel showing itself?

[C]

Right.

[B]

Like I said before, at the time, homes were pretty simple. They had whitewashed walls, shutters, cement floors to keep the home cool in the blistering summer heat. And Maria Gomez Camara was the woman who would discover these faces in her floor.

[C]

I'm also imagining she lived here for a long time before this happened.

[B]

She lived there until her death, too.

[C]

But, like, I mean, just prior to the faces appearing, like, it just spontaneously appeared. It's not like they moved in. All of a sudden they're seeing this. It's like they've lived there for years and years, and then all of a sudden, it's appearing.

[B]

Yeah. And it was her. Her husband and her son. And I'm not really sure what the age of her son was, but I think it was like late teens or early adult at the time. So I think they had been there for quite a long time. So Maria, she was very religious. She was a homemaker. She was a believer in miracles. But on August 23, when Maria Bent over her kitchen floor and saw this image, it changed her life. It seemed way too implausible to be true, too strange, too. Too paranormal. And as she's looking at it, it's not clearly the face of Jesus or Mary or something that would, like, speak to her Catholicism and her beliefs.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

So she tried to scrub it away. And when that didn't work, she actually Grabbed a knife and tried to scrape the face off the floor. And that also didn't work. So now she's getting really spooked. And so she calls to her husband and is like, juan, wake up from your siesta. Yes, I need help. There's a face looking at me from the kitchen floor. And he's like, what? What, Maria? That seems like nonsense. So he goes. And he's like, okay, this doesn't seem like a weird stain. You're right. Like, nothing seems to be working. But it's so clearly a face that they are getting super spooked. And Juan took a pickaxe and literally, like, broke the face and chipped all of that piece of cement out of the cement to get rid of them.

[C]

Yeah, because they were.

[B]

Yeah, they're freaked by it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because at that point, it's like, is it demonic too? Right.

[C]

Or not even jumping to that. They're like, is this something damaging the floor? If you're. Before you jump to paranormal of any kind, you're like, yeah, maybe. How is this not getting removed?

[B]

Yeah, well, they went pretty extreme. And pickaxe to the floor. He was like, no man will be staring up or woman will be staring up at me from this kitchen floor. So they poured new concrete. The face was no longer there. But did this stop a face from re. Emerging into the kitchen tile floors?

[C]

I feel like, no.

[B]

No, it did not. I keep saying tile floors. It's concrete. It's cement.

[C]

What year is this again?

[B]

1971.

[C]

Okay, so it's recent.

[B]

Spoiler alert. It went on for decades. So within days, a new face emerged. And this time it was larger, it was clearer, and it was a completely different face, but a face, no doubt. So this was one of those things where it's like, okay, it's a new face now. So it's not like there's some weird chemical or something in the stone that's, like, seeping up and.

[C]

Right. That just appears as a face. Right, right.

[B]

And so now this is a small town. There's maybe a couple thousand people there. And so word starts to spread. The mayor is alerted. I believe I read somewhere that Maria herself called the mayor and told him what was happening. Cause she was freaked out.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so he was like, do not take a pickaxe to this face again. I'm sending officials over. So he sent city officials with orders to cut that piece of floor out of the kitchen and send it off to be analyzed. And if it was a miracle, potentially for preservation.

[C]

I do appreciate that. Right. Yeah.

[B]

So the hearth was excavated and a shaft over six feet long was dug out. And they carefully lift this stone digging into the home and subfloor also.

[C]

This is such a nuisance for Maria and her family. Like, it's their kitchen. It's their kitchen, right? Yeah.

[B]

They don't.

[C]

They don't want this happening.

[B]

No, no. This is like, this affects them every day. Yeah. Multiple times a day. Beneath the subfloor, they found something that they were not prepared for. Human bones.

[C]

I wasn't expecting that.

[B]

I did read one report that said there were no skulls, only bodies. However, that was in one book. And there have been multiple reports and multiple books about this case. And others did say that there were skulls. Just some were missing jawbones. But either way, dead people beneath the floor where faces were emerging in the concrete.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And this is when the family would learn that their home sat atop what had once been a village cemetery from the 13th century. So they were on top of a 13th century graveyard. Like, ancient people.

[C]

But why? Like, my biggest question is, why now?

[B]

Well, we'll talk about a parapsychologist who came in and had a theory as to why now.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

They reburied the bones in a consecrated ground, and a new floor was poured in Maria and Juan's home so they could use the kitchen again. But over the next few months, the Gomez kitchen became a pilgrimage site because new faces kept emerging in the cement. Hundreds of people came to peer at the faces etched into the ground. Some of the faces looked anguished, others looked serene. Witnesses swore that faces would move, eyes would open, mouths appeared to sag. And this is a super well documented case. There are many journalists who captured sequences showing subtle changes from week to week between images. And I'm going to show you.

[C]

I almost feel like in the Scooby Doo movie, there's that pit where all, like, the spirits are trapped in the cave, and they, like, kind of, like, rise to the surface and, like, scream. Cause they're trying to get out. Like, I'm imagining the concrete, like, trapped their spirits. Like, there's something about it does feel that way that they're now stuck. But again, the why now is still a question.

[B]

The why now? Okay, I'm going to show you a few pictures, though.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Here's just a few of what would be a ton of faces. And they're all so different.

[C]

Well, it's also, like, they're so. There's a little bit of skeptic in me right now.

[B]

There's a lot of skeptic in this story.

[C]

Because one, they don't look human sized. They look smaller.

[B]

They look like drawings and paintings, and.

[C]

They look like drawings and paintings. And I'm like, how can we verify that these weren't drawn? Right.

[B]

Like, it doesn't look like an actual human or like what you would assume to be a spirit just smushed their face against the cement.

[C]

Right.

[B]

They do look drawn.

[C]

But if they are disappearing, that is crazy.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And then that also makes me think, what if it's not necessarily paranormal, like spirits shoving their faces up into the concrete, but is it a timeline glitch where someone else in a different timeline lives in this home and they're drawing on the kitchen floor?

[B]

Oh, interesting.

[C]

And that's why we can't erase it, because it literally doesn't really exist in our timeline. Oh.

[B]

And why? They just like, randomly emerge at times and maybe move. That is a good theory. I like that.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

And I feel like it does kind of make sense, like, when we get through it. I think that that is actually a pretty good pitch. So this is happening, and now this is becoming basically a tourist attraction. I. I'm not entirely sure, but from what I read, it does kind of seem like they might have been charging an entry.

[C]

I hope so.

[B]

To. Yeah. Enter their home. And so parish priests also came. They started blessing the kitchen. The mayor fenced off the street to control the crowds, but still faces kept emerging. People kept coming. Maria and her family kept letting people see the faces.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

So now people are like, mm, okay. Already some skepticism, but it seems like they're capitalizing off of this thing happening to them, and they're making money off of it, which, like, why not? If something happens to you like this.

[C]

And also if hundreds of people are gonna be entering your kitchen and, like, inconveniencing your life, like. Yeah.

[B]

So they're not really sure what's going on or what the family's intentions are. But the Spanish press is now running with the story. They're making it even bigger than it already was in this small town.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And in an attempt to calm the hysteria, the Ministry of the Interior sent a chemist, Jose Martin, to come analyze the samples of these faces. Because they're like, are they doctored? Are they stains? Was there some sort of, like, chemical manipulation here, or is it just painted?

[C]

Right?

[B]

Despite his findings not being officially published, apparently he did report that there were just some, you know, like, good old regular minerals. So basically, the concrete mixture was exactly as you would expect it to be. There was iron, chromium, phosphorus, all things Normal for this sort of space in Spain. So basically, there was nothing in the stone that would appear to allow the material to, like, change in form.

[C]

Right. And almost, like, verifying that the family themselves is not altering the ground in any way to make this happen.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Okay. So now we've had priests blessing the house. Now we've had a chemist testing the stone. And so the natural next move is to bring in a parapsychologist.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

There's a ton of names and many parapsychologists that were involved in this case, but really the main guy was. I haven't butchered these names, but German. German. De Argumosa.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

So Argumosa, he was Spain's best known parapsychologist at the time. And so he spent the most amount of time actually in the house, too. So he set up a bunch of instruments throughout the house. I think he was, like, trying to capture EVPs, and there were some reports that there were some EVPs captured. But it's kind of hard because then when you get there, there's a lot of, like, extra lore added in versus just, like, what was reported.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So he's setting up a bunch of things in the house, and he concludes that the stains were neither paint nor superficial marks.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

So he basically said the exact same thing that the chemist concluded, which was inconclusive. Like, we can't. There's no obvious doctoring of the cement. He said when he looked under a microscope, he stated that the coloration appeared to run all the way through the cement. So it wasn't just like a painting, like someone etching on top of the cement.

[C]

It's like a tattoo.

[B]

So he thought, okay, this is truly a naturally occurring phenomenon. But everyone was not so keen on accepting that as an answer. The majority of people were skeptics.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Which makes sense. Like, this is such a strange.

[C]

I have a skeptical view as well.

[B]

Because I. I still am a bit skeptical in the end.

[C]

I mean, it's wild, but I, like, want to understand it because there's nothing like this that I've ever heard.

[B]

I know. But it does, in a way, remind me of some of those, like, bleeding statues, you know, like. Or like, crying statues. Yeah. Where it's just like, what is happening to the stone or the statue that would, like, allow it to create sweat or. Yeah, yeah. And I think many of them are hoaxes, but there are also a couple where it's like, we don't know.

[C]

How do we explain it?

[B]

Yeah. So people were pretty determined to prove that this was a hoax.

[C]

Wait, Sorry, this. I don't know if anyone watches Derry Girls on Netflix. Yes, it's hilarious.

[B]

But do you remember three times through?

[C]

Do you remember the one where the Virgin Mary is like crying but it's actually like one of the girls was just peeing.

[B]

No, the dog peed upstairs.

[C]

The dog peed upstairs.

[B]

Yeah. And then they were like all over the news and the hot priest comes and they don't want to tell. Yeah, it's such a good one. Dairy Girls is amazing. If you've never watched the show, have to, and if you complain that you can't understand them, put on subtitles because you can't miss it. It's so good having time to take care of yourself. It just, it feels like a full time job.

[C]

I also feel like right now the talk of weight loss medications is everywhere and I know some people are like, is it right for me? And I do have someone very close to me in my life who had that same question. So she actually reached out to hers which is trans transforming women's healthc care by providing access to weight loss treatment plans for every budget. And they connect you with a medical provider who will work with you to determine the best treatment option for you.

[B]

And if you're prescribed, you get medication as part of a doctor developed weight loss program complete with ongoing care check ins, dosage and medication adjustments and access to a 247 online support at no additional cost. So there's no hidden fees and also no membership fees.

[C]

I also love that hers is just taking on women's healthcare in such a positive way. They have access to like anxiety meds and ways to grow fuller hair. Like they just have it all for women.

[B]

So whether you want to lose weight, grow thicker, fuller hair or find relief for anxiety, hers has you covered. Visit forhers.com TGOG to get a personalized affordable plan that gets you. That's F O-R-H-E-R-S.com TGOG for hers.com TGOG weight loss by hers is not available everywhere. Compounded drug products are not approved or evaluated for safety, effectiveness or quality by the fda. Prescription required. See website for full details, important safety information and restrictions. Actual price depends on products and planned purchase.

[C]

You and I have been talking recently about how we want to try out new scents and you know, find out.

[B]

Who we are again.

[C]

Right? Who are we? What do we smell like and like the seasons change.

[B]

Like we gotta, we gotta have a different scent now that it's cozy season.

[C]

Well, that's why we love micro Perfumes because you can try out a bunch of different scents and they have these like little minis that are one, they're travel friendly, which is great if you ever are going long distance or for a long vacation and you're like, I can't bring my old bottle.

[B]

And also, it's a great go to place to try some luxury perfumes without the luxury price. And I did order a sample of Baccarat Rouge, which is certainly normally a luxury price.

[C]

How is it so good? Oh, my gosh. I ordered a Lolabo patchouli scent.

[B]

That's. That's one of my. Yeah, one of my scents.

[C]

Well, now I'm copying you. I want to smell like you occasionally, but not all.

[B]

It's my normal fall scent, but now it can be yours. And I'm trying a new one.

[C]

And Micro Perfumes can help you discover your signature vibe fast shipping straight to your door. With over 500 fragrances to choose from. And unlike subscription boxes or shady discount sites, Micro Perfumes gives you instant access to authentic in stock fragrances. It's the real thing, affordable and ready when you are.

[B]

So why commit blind to a $200 bottle? Find your scent Soulmate today and get up to 60% off at microperfumes.com TGOG that's microperfumes.com TGog for up to 60% off. Micro perfumes, real scents, no regrets. So one of the skeptics, Jose Martinez, he was an artist and he was like, I know that I can do this exact same thing. So he made nearly identical images using silver nitrate and acids. So he proved that it could be faked. However, he used silver nitrate and acids. And in the chemical tests, there were no signs of any of these chemicals.

[C]

Hmm.

[B]

So yes, it can be done, but how was this specific one done? That's still the question. So there were many parapsychologists who believed that this was indeed a hoax. That was definitely more of the opinion than it being just a miracle.

[C]

But it's one of those things where they say it's a hoax because they want to believe it's a hoax, but they can't prove how it's a hoax.

[B]

They can't prove how it's a hoax. Exactly. So people were arguing that there must be some oxidizing chemical agent used to create this image. Ramos Pereira, president at the Spanish Society of Parapsychology at the time, said that when he examined it, he thought for sure that he was seeing in the microscope some pigments of dye and brush strokes. So he was like, this is painted.

[C]

But then it would be able to come off.

[B]

Exactly. And other people would have seen it too. And this is the theme with the next few decades. It's like every time one thing is discovered or it's true for one image, it's not true for the next one.

[C]

Gotcha.

[B]

Or one person examines it and concludes this thing, and then the next person is like, I saw the opposite. So it's like, what is the truth? It seems no one can find it.

[C]

And I feel like no one's ever.

[B]

Going to find it, and no one will. Spoiler. Okay. So no one can figure out how the faces got there. They just know there are faces here. And interestingly enough, investigators soon realize that the faces seem to be tied to Maria specifically. So when she leaves the house, the activity slows. New faces don't emerge. The images start to kind of fade away. So some people could argue, like, she was drawing them, figuring out a way to do it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But then when she would return, they would surge.

[C]

Let's just say if Maria was figuring out a way to do this and befuddle hundreds, if not thousands of people go off Maria.

[B]

Right. Get your bag, Maria.

[C]

Get that bag. Seriously? Because that's so impressive. Yeah, she's like a magician. Or it's like, spiritual activity related to her. And even then, it's like, that's cool.

[B]

Well, it kind of is powerful. One of the leading theories, or this is what the parapsychologist argument proposed, was that she was an unconscious medium, that she had no idea her powers, and she was projecting psychic energy psychokinesis and creating a thoughtographic phenomenon. So basically, she had this unconscious psych psychokinesis fueled by things happening in her own life. She had emotional stress and just like her thoughts. And probably as she's, like, putzing around the kitchen and thinking through her day and all the things that are happening to her in her life, she's basically imprinting her subconscious mind onto the stone.

[C]

She's an artist without having to use her hand.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

She's an artist with her brain.

[B]

She is. And so basically, they're saying, like, yeah, if she's having all these thoughts and she's thinking these things, of course this is why those faces look like that. They're anguished. They're in despair. They're experiencing grief. These are images that are mirroring Maria's psyche.

[C]

I'm curious if any of the faces look like her.

[B]

Or one does.

[C]

What about her husband and her son?

[B]

Oh, that's a good question.

[C]

Or like, people in her Life.

[B]

I'm not sure. I didn't say interesting. And unfortunately, she has passed. So I'm not sure anyone's going to be able to answer that question now. Wow. So for 30 years, faces would continue to emerge. New teams would go in. They would be determined to solve this mystery, but the test results remained inconclusive. Like I said, it was like everything was conflicting. Nothing was the same. No one could. There was. It's just a mystery, everyone. It's a mystery.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So one of the strangest things that many people observed was that the faces appeared to shift and evolve over time. So expressions from the same exact face would change. Or the position in the stone would be, like, slightly to the left or to the right, like, move an inch on the stone. And this was documented. Right. So there are a ton of images to prove it. So wrinkles would deepen, eyes appeared to move, mouths more open. And I have two examples to show you the artwork. Yeah. But I'm also like, how do you edit this sometimes? Like, it really does look like it's. The whole image is moving.

[C]

Interesting, right?

[B]

Like, it's not like something was added to it. It looks like the whole thing was slightly. It's just slightly different.

[C]

You know, I'm thinking of. I don't know if anyone else does this, but, like, in my bathroom growing up, there was a tile pattern that it kind of looked like that color. It was like black and white. And I would, like, look for faces.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I have a few faces, like in my flowers and stuff.

[C]

Yeah, we all look for faces. But I would, like, spend time in the shower and then I'd, like, try to find that same face again the next time. And it kind of like reminds me of that where it's like you're looking for it.

[B]

It does look like that, though. Totally. Where like, if this were just random, you'd be like, oh, yeah, that's just like a weird pattern in the marble or the stone. But, like, this is cement that continues to be re poured every time something's extracted. And now it's not like they're just removing the cement and putting in a new one in a new face. It's just coming and going, fading away. A new face comes.

[C]

Interesting. I don't know.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

They're also not drastically like, yes, there's some changes, especially the second photo with like, the man with the beard. Like that one, I feel like changes the most.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But I feel like I could easily be like, maybe it's from wear and tear. Like people walking on the Ground or. Or something.

[B]

Right. Like you're looking for something to be in. So that one that I showed you where it's like the five images. And this is from one of the books that was published by Gerard Meyer. This is from that book where there's, like, five images showing that it has evolved. And people have argued that, like, this is the face that looks most like Maria. And In February of 2004, at the age of 85, Maria Gomez passed away. She lived out the rest of her life in this home. And new faces did continue to emerge in the kitchen after she left, but the one that looked like Maria disappeared.

[C]

Forever after her death.

[B]

After her death, which is so crazy. However, I will say that the images, apparently, that have been emerging since her death have said to be a bit more detailed and that there's some question as to, like, there appears to be a difference in the faces. And so again, that adds to the skepticism because some people are like, well, was this Maria doing it? And then after she passed, is her son taking over and trying to create.

[C]

The images, and he's just a better artist, I guess. Or Maria passed away and now on the other side, she has more talent.

[B]

Or like, she's, like, conscious of what she's doing.

[C]

Execute better, huh?

[B]

Yeah. I don't know. But that is the mystery of the Belmez faces. It remains. No one has ever been able to solve exactly how those images are appearing in the cement in a small house in southern Spain for 30 some years.

[C]

So to this day, there are still faces.

[B]

I don't know if to this day, I think of, like, into the early 2000s, there were recorded images also.

[C]

This is in High End Spain. I was like, why does that sound so familiar? I'm like, oh, because that's where the olives from Gaza originate from. It's like, I know Hai in Spain.

[B]

I know Hayen. I can assume they're olive oil every day.

[C]

This is not even an ad. It would be great if there was an ad right here. This would be the place to put it. But I want there to be, and I feel like this is human nature. I want there to be an answer. I want there to be. I almost wish that there was kind of like cave paintings. Like a story being told in this art.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Is Maria's spirit trying to convey a message.

[B]

What's interesting that you say cave paintings, because a few of them really did look like cave paintings. The style of them.

[C]

And then how does this relate to the. How many bodies buried beneath the ground?

[B]

You know, and that's why. So I didn't include this because it was just like, there's so much lore and superstition and when it was kind of hard because, like, a lot of the actual documents are in Spanish. So obviously I couldn't, like, read the reports of the original, like, parapsychologists and stuff. So I'm going based on, like, what other people have regurgitated or translated. And I think that there's a lot of, like, you know, people add spookiness into the story to like, make it more eccentric.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I have no clue if this is true or not, but, like, some people were saying that there were EVPs of the spirit saying, like, help us.

[C]

Help me.

[B]

Save me. Yeah. Or that area was getting, like, plagued by nightmares. Or there were images of people appearing and that people were, like, hearing knocking on the walls and just like all these other things that definitely come with haunted house stories.

[C]

Right. So it's hard to know if that's accurate or if that's embellishment for the story.

[B]

That's why I didn't include it originally, because I was like, I have no idea this. I was making it up on Reddit. And then it made its way into an article somewhere because it doesn't sound.

[C]

Like beyond the faces appearing, there was hauntings in the traditional sense.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Interesting. What do you all think?

[B]

The faces. The faces in the cement.

[C]

I do like my theory.

[B]

Are they. I do like your theory a lot.

[C]

Too, but the question is, how does time work? So we don't have. We won't have answers.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Okay. I did pick a story. So at one point in the document, it said possessions. And so I picked a scary possession.

[B]

Story in your defense from this area. Like, I thought that this story was also tied to another house that has a sort of possession, which now I'm going to save for our Patreon bonus, because apparently southern Spain is afflicted with many paranormal ongoings.

[C]

I like it, but great.

[B]

The stone was possessed.

[C]

And so too was our listener. And the subject line is in all caps. Please read sad face. Oh, this is from our listener, Jeremy. This might be a long email, but I've been wanting to write you guys for a while now, telling of you a few of my personal experiences and the experiences from my family until the latest experience that happened about a week ago and my boyfriend finally convinced me. I need to email you, but I want to start this by saying I've always been a hardcore skeptic of the supernatural, of demons, of ghosts and all things spooky, even Considering how I was raised and the insane stories and experiences that I've heard from multiple people in my family and that I'm about to share with you, I still try to rationalize what has happened. But to this day, I have slowly had to start to give up.

[B]

This is actually perfect because this is proof of, like, someone trying to come up with a rational explanation for something, and no matter how hard you try, you can't find one.

[C]

My name is Jeremy. My immediate family has always been super Christian. And because of that, I believe in demons as much as they do God. And I do lean towards Christian beliefs, but I don't consider myself to be super religious. Not really. The first experience that I had when I heard of supernatural things was from my aunt, who I was super close with. And she told me about how my grandma's. Her mom's house was haunted and that she'd once seen a man and her best friend, whose name is Jay, lived in the attic, had seen a young girl at that same house, A best.

[B]

Friend named Jay who lives in the attic. Just sounds like it's a ghost already.

[C]

Jay is the ghost. Yeah. Jay is like a fake name, an.

[B]

Alias for the ghost that lives in the attic.

[C]

Yeah, exactly. So the story goes that the first time she saw this man was on a day that the family was having a barbecue. But she hadn't been feeling good, so she went and asked her dad if he would go lay down next to her because she was scared to be alone from previous experiences she had in the house that she couldn't really remember. When she told me this story, her dad told her to go upstairs and that he would come up and be with her in a minute. So she did. She went and laid down and waited and waited, but eventually started to fall asleep. The next thing she remembers is feeling and hearing heavy breathing behind her neck. She assumed maybe it was her dad, and she was, like half asleep and didn't realize he had come in. So she stayed there laying, facing away from the breathing, trying to fall back to sleep. But she was so bothered by the sound and the feeling of his hot breath on her neck that she started to complain and said, poppy, stop breathing so loud. But the breathing continued. She kept complaining until she got so annoyed, she flipped over to yell at her dad. But when she flipped over, no one was next to her.

[B]

It's the heavy breathing that's extra creepy. I know. It's like.

[C]

It's like. Wants you to know it's there.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

As she realizes no one's next to her her eyes dart down the long hallway and she could see straight down from her bed was a dark figure of a man standing in the hallway. She instantly started screaming as loud as she could until her family came running up to her room. And once the light from the hallway came on, the man had disappeared. No one believed her when she persistently told them what had happened. This story has been told to me so many times, and every time I showed my inner skeptic. And I questioned everything about the story, which was awkward and hard for me to do because my aunt and I have always been so close. I'm her favorite. She told me not to tell my siblings or cousins, but eventually I told her I believed her and let her tell her other stories, even though deep down I was a non believer and I wanted to believe that there was some reasoning behind these stories. But I did enjoy the stories, so I like to hear them. Anyway, here's my next story. I'm going to try to go through these two quick, but if you need or want more details, let me know. I'll add them in. Okay, so basically this next story is from my aunt's friend Jay, who lived in the house years ago. One day, Jay had come home late and was going down the same long hallway to her bedroom from my aunt's last story. She had seen my aunt's head pop up from her bed, look down the hallway, then go back down. So she started talking to my aunt as she was walking down the hall going on about her day. Finally, she reached closer to my aunt's room and when she looked inside, she noticed that my aunt was sleeping on the bed and thought that's weird because she had just seen her pop up. So she starts calling my aunt's name over and over, trying to wake her up. And then she heard a voice say, what? Almost annoyed and sassy, which wasn't normal for my aunt. So Jay replied with the same sass and said, get up. Jay heard my aunt giggle and say, okay. Before from behind my aunt stood a little girl with a wide smile, almost holding a giggle.

[B]

Ooh.

[C]

Which is terrifying because Jeremy's aunt is literally sleeping in the bed and this little girl like pops up from behind her.

[B]

Just when you think you're safe, you have someone else.

[C]

Which is a little scary for Jay's. For Jeremy's aunt knowing that this entity was like, basically on top of her.

[B]

Right? Yeah.

[C]

Ugh. So Jay ran the fuck out of the room without any hesitation, ran up to the attic, and never told my aunt the story until Last year. She's now almost 40 and has been married for years. Also, I was just shitting bricks writing this, thinking about how the this happened.

[B]

Wait, was the aunt awake?

[C]

No, the aunt was asleep. So the voice responding was mimicking the aunt and everything?

[B]

Yeah, that almost makes it worse because it's like truly like the one person who could see it with you or like the person like, I'm just thinking about when I was scared and I'd have my mom sleep like I'm against the wall and she'd sleep on the outside. And then to just have something so close to you and just pop up and be like, hello.

[C]

Nope, you're not safe.

[B]

No.

[C]

Okay. So this is the last of my aunt's stories that I've only heard from her. And it's a crazy ass story that really does make me believe. My aunt's friend came over when they were little girls and my aunt warned her that the house is haunted. Her friend didn't believe it. They were playing upstairs and went downstairs for water. And on their way back up, my aunt's friend said, turn off the light. And now my aunt was a little confused because the only light on was my grandma's sewing machine light, but she hadn't turned it on. But knowing that she should turn the lights off, she walked down the steps to the lamp and went to go pull the string. As she's reaching to pull the string, she saw a big hairy man's arm reach out of the darkness and slowly yank down the string, turning off the light for her, leaving her in the darkness. She obviously ran, told her friend said, I told you so after basically shitting herself.

[B]

Also, like, what do you mean I told you so? I told you there's a big hairy man's arm. Like, that's.

[C]

Well, her friend was saying that it wasn't haunted. And so she was like, I told you it's haunting.

[B]

That's like beyond a haunting.

[C]

Yeah, it's like an active man who was using the light for his own things.

[B]

But then I guess that kind of goes with the again, like, what is time? I feel like if we, back in 2017, when we started the podcast, if we could listen to ourselves in the future, be like, what is time? We'd be like, what are you talking about? Like, why are you putting timelines on everything paranormal now?

[C]

Like, I almost want to do a episode where we record with our past selves and we pause or interrupt and give a new theory.

[B]

Theory.

[C]

Let us know if there's a specific episode you want us to do that.

[B]

On one that we maybe did really poorly on.

[C]

Yeah, that you're like, wow, this episode was so bad, you idiots.

[B]

Yikes.

[C]

Okay, so now this is where shit gets very real. I was typing all of this in the dark before, but now I'm sitting in my bed with all of the lights on and have all of my babies, my ferrets protecting me and my feet from being eaten by a foot eating demon. Okay, background information here. As I said, my family is very, very religious, excluding me and my aunt, the rebels of the family, my cousins too, but no experience of revelance. So hearing this story, I've done so many things to try to rationalize it in my head. Mostly telling myself that my mom made it up to scare us into being religious and, you know, never joining the devil or evil. And that my aunt had gone along with the story because she loved Steve, scary stuff and love with her precious favorite nephew. But this story made me so interested in horror and demonology that I even started collecting books in goetias that I hide in this cabinet. Oh, the cabinet's inside the bed. Like I'm. It's like a secret cabinet.

[B]

Okay, okay.

[C]

This story has been stuck in my head. It has been in my head since childhood. And I'm now 20. But now, years later, I went to go visit my aunt for the weekend. And as usual, my mother had stopped telling us the story because it gave the demons and spirits power over us when we have fear of them. So I lay on my aunt's couch and I'm high as a kite, and I said the words, tia, was Ali really possessed? And here is when I'm going to go back and tell you the story. I've literally interrogated my entire family that was there, except my mother about this. After my tia told me this story. My mom had two best friends in high school. One named Ali, fake name. And Tati, again, fake name. So Ali and Tati, they were both bad girls. And my mom was this wholesome Christian girl, of course, but she was nonetheless friends with these two girls. Tati's mother was a psychic and a witch. There are Spanish terms for the witchcraft she would do, but I don't even want to type them while it's night and I'm full of piss. But basically, Tati's mom was Dominican, and they have this stereotype for witchcraft, but even more specific stereotypes from different types of places in the Dominican Republic. But basically, Tati's mom was believed to practice the type that uses power from demons to cast love Spells for her lovey dovey clients and other types of more malicious ones for her other clients. So Ali, being a rebel child, had been kicked out of her home for a while and was living with Tati and her mother above the shop where Tati's mom saw her clients. Well, one day, Ali and Tati got into a huge fight. Ali called my mom drunk, saying Tati kicked her out and begged my mom to pick her up. She was sobbing her guts out. So my mom did. They picked her up and they got inside the house, which was my grandma's home. My grandma was trying to help her because Ollie seemed like she was more than drunk. She almost started convulsing and was thrashing around. So my grandma assumed she was high as well and was just trying to help. She figured she beat my mom's ass at another time. All of a sudden there's this commotion in the living room. And the whole first floor is an open floor plan from. So from the kitchen you can see as much into the living room where my older brother, who's now 25 but was 2 or 3, was there with our uncles who were a little drunk. They lay Ollie down on the couch and they watch over her, but Ollie looks as if she's going insane, as if she had taken every drug possible. My family was now realizing this is a lot more serious. But they don't jump to possession until Ollie starts yelling in Spanish, the devil is there in the corner. He watching me. He wants me. And then panicked, terrified. Get him out. Get him out. Get him out. Please, please. And she's pointing to the corner of the room. My mom and my grandma are trying to calm Ollie down without even looking behind them when they start to hear my great aunts screaming. They turned around and saw a dark figure under the tall standing lamp.

[B]

Hell no.

[C]

And now I've asked everyone about this, but they hate talking about it. But everyone has said the same thing. This dark shadow was the shape of a winged demon in a dark silhouette form. Once everyone realized how real things have gotten, it turns into absolute fucking chaos. Everyone is yelling over each other about the devil and begging God to save them, as some recited scripture. But this is the biggest mindfuck of all. The majority of my family that was there said that in all of this chaos, the ones who were watching Ali said she was looking around the room, pointing and screaming, even though the demon that they saw in the corner had disappeared in the chaos. But when they would look where she was pointing, they saw a dark shadow, man with a hat Run out towards the front door with a little girl following him. They watched as the front door opened and closed behind these shadows.

[B]

Did the little girl go out too? Like, is she good or bad? Like, is she chasing him out? Or was she also a participant?

[C]

I don't know. But according to my aunt, these entities were never seen again. Or was it that the two entities that were haunting the house were so scared of what was happening that they ran?

[B]

Yeah, because it's. That's certainly not like a winged beast. No, A hat man. And a little girl.

[C]

And based on the aunt story, the aunt had seen a man and. And the friend had seen a little girl.

[B]

Jay had seen a little girl.

[C]

So to try to continue and wrap up this horrific fucking story, they all hold Ali down as she throws herself around the room with. With an insane amount of force and eventually ends up at the bottom of the staircase. And at this point, everyone agreed that at that moment, Ali was visibly possessed. As in, eyes rolling all the way back, skin torn around her face, which I always call bullshit on, but my mom swore by it. They said she started speaking in all types of languages they slightly recognized at first, until it was so fast and so gibberish, they assumed it could only be tongues that she was speaking.

[B]

Jeez.

[C]

Also, I forgot to say, the only part of this that my aunt saw was Ali being held down on the stairs and her eyes rolling back and speaking in tongues. She watched the screaming from the top of the staircase before running back to her room to hide. But, yeah, basically, long story short, they held Ali down for some time. Some say it was hours. Others say it was just one hour. And they read scriptures over and over. They never called a priest, and it was basically ours. And Ali seemed to be herself again. And then they politely told her that she had to get the fuck out of this house, which I think is fair, considering she traumatized everyone.

[B]

Geez. Yeah.

[C]

I hope she's okay.

[B]

I mean, I feel very sorry for her. I'm glad not everyone ran to hide.

[C]

I know.

[B]

Leave her there.

[C]

Well, I'm also so curious, like, what the fight between Ali and Tati was. And, like, did something happen what followed Ali from Tati's house?

[B]

Right.

[C]

Or did they get in a fight because of some energy that was happening? Like, it wasn't even a real fight. Like, they wouldn't.

[B]

Which is, like, the classic part of the beginning of poltergeist activity or demonic activity.

[C]

I have the gift. I'm gonna brag and say it's the gift of the season because my brother has always lost his wallet and I feel like hasn't invested in a good one. So I got him the Ridge wallet and not only was he in love with it, but he also doesn't lose his wallet anymore. It's so sleek and they have over 50 colors and styles to choose from.

[B]

And gone is that giant oversized bulge in your pants. That didn't sound right, but you know what I mean. It's a sleek wallet. It is sleek. I got my dad the key holder.

[C]

Also, they have the Ridge airtag attachment so you can always know where your wallet is before panic kicks in. Like Crin said, Ridge isn't just about wallets. They also create premium everyday carry essential like key cases, suitcases and rings, all built with the same sleek and durable design.

[B]

For a limited time, our listeners get 10% off at Ridge by using code TGOG at checkout. Just head to ridge.com and use code TGOG and you're all set. After you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. So please support our show. Let them know that our show's into.

[C]

So how the heck do you find the right doctor?

[B]

Well, I'll tell you. I'll tell you because I have my OB GYN appointment, my first one in like a year and a half because I moved and then I was like I have no doctors and I just booked my doctor on zocdoc and I had such guys, I had such a.

[C]

Painless pap smear and also booking doctor experience. I feel like sometimes it's so difficult to get an appointment, but Zocdoc makes that so much easier for you. 1. They help you find a doctor and give you tons of doctors to choose from and then let you book in seconds directly on their website.

[B]

And I love that you can upload your insurance cards to their site so when you make the booking, whoever you book with they have all the details so you don't have to worry about all that stuff later on.

[C]

And ZocDoc is a free app and website where you can search and compare high quality in network doctors and click to instantly book an appointment.

[B]

And appointments made through ZoCTOC also happen fast, typically within just 24 to 72 hours of booking. And more often than not you can even get same day appointments.

[C]

What I love is that I have preference like especially when I go to a gynecologist, I want to go see a female doctor and you can put that in the filters on zocdoc. It does make it easier for you to find the doctor that's right for you.

[B]

So stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com TGOG to find and instantly book a top rated doctor today. That's Z O C-O C.com TGOG sockdoc.com TGOG.

[C]

I don't want to bother you with too many details about the after effects of this and how it affected my family, but basically the drunks of my family either turned sober or became more of a drunk and the slightly religious became extremists. And as I said, my family is now very religious and supposedly doesn't even talk about these demons unless it's to scare your children. Ali and my mom stayed friends until I was about 15 or so. Tati for some reason stayed friends with my mom for about the same amount of time because Tati had a daughter the same year I was born. And so I was raised alongside that family. And okay, now this leads to my personal experiences which I have basically three As I have said countless times, I am a skeptic at heart. Even after hearing about eight points of views of a story about a possession, I try not to think about it because it forces me to acknowledge how real all of this is and it can no longer be a little edgy hobby of mine to do on the side. But that being said, my first story, it's very short. I've had a few sleep paralysis episodes. Nothing supernatural about that, except the shadow man. I see him walk around me. But again, I rationalize it that using all the science and psychology studies that it's just our mind's reaction to the sleep paralysis and nothing more than our fears becoming real to us in a very vulnerable state that we literally have no control of. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Literally blah blah blah. 2. As I said before, the possession story. Growing up hearing that story made me interested in the supernatural and in demons. Even if I told myself I was trying to rationalize it and read more of it as a study of religion rather than to believe it deeply. But a lot of the books I got were very, very demon focused, some being little witchcraft stuff, some being demonology and history and some straight up goetias with ancient seals and drawings of demons and all types of evil stuff.

[B]

Wow. But when I first learned that you're drawn to all of that because you.

[C]

Want to understand and also it's clearly impacted his family so much, right? But when I first started this collection I made a little box to keep it in the woods along with my Little drug and liquor collection so that my mom wouldn't find it. But honestly, even then, I could admit part of me knew from being a Christian that having these things in the house probably wouldn't be good.

[B]

I love that. Like, this is all of the, like, illicit. Yeah, just drugbird I'm looking for. Yeah, like this is what you hide from your mom.

[C]

Drugs and demons.

[B]

Drugs and demons.

[C]

So one day, the collection was too big to fit inside the box in the woods, so I finally had to bring it inside. I plotted out the best spot to put it and found the perfect spot. My bed has drawers underneath it, and on one side I have a ramp for my ferret babies to climb into my bed. And I love that you have ferrets. I want to see pictures. And this ramp blocked the drawers from opening. So this was my usual hiding spot for small amounts of drugs and vapes. I cleared out the drawer and went into the woods and I brought my books into the drawer, making several trips until two whole drawers were packed. Feeling all smart and satisfied and proud of my genius hiding spot, I finally laid in bed, realizing I would literally be sleeping over these evil books. I basically shit my pants for half a second and then said, oh, well, it's not real. And I fell asleep. Big mistake.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That night I had a sleep paralysis episode. And the way that I had been sleeping, I was facing the side of the bed of the drawers that had the books. And I will never forget this shit. I couldn't see the drawer open, but I heard it slide open. My room has LED string lights all around the room that I set to red when I'm going to sleep. So in the dark room with a red glow, I start to see a blur of motion in the darkness and shadows. And I start to hear wet boots crunching over and over until it slowly started to unravel from a ball, slowly turning into a dark figured man standing literally right next to me. This thing starts moving around me and crunching until he stood straight up, leaning over me. Up until this moment, it had only been a black shadow figure. But as he leaned over my body, I saw his eyes open, staring back at me. I immediately shut my eyes and used my coping skills that I used for these episodes to gain control of my body piece by piece, wiggling each body part just a tiny bit so that I wouldn't let the shadow figure know that I was in control.

[B]

Yet.

[C]

I literally had to lay there even after having control of my body, just to gain the courage to get up and make any real Move.

[B]

I want so badly this to just be, like, some sort of protective spirit. Like, maybe someone who, like, wrote these books or owned these books before. To be like, don't mess with the darkness. Like, just make sure that you know what you're doing. When you're looking into all of this, your intentions are pure.

[C]

Or believe it. Or believe it.

[B]

Right? Yeah.

[C]

Eventually, I threw myself up off the bed and swung a punch, and the only thing I smacked was the cabinet next to my bed, and I slipped, eating shit on my floor. I had to literally take the pain, jump up, run across my room, tripping over myself like an idiot. I turned on the only light, and of course, nothing was there. Nothing but the mess that I made from falling after punching through the air and smacking the cabinet.

[B]

Wait, this just. Sorry, this is such a side pivot. I had, like, a compilation of just really weird dreams the other night, and this just reminded me that one of them was, we were being attacked by a ghost.

[C]

You and I.

[B]

Yes. And I kept trying to guess where its balls were to punch him in the balls. And, like, half the dream was me just going, I love this. I love that.

[C]

When I'm in your dreams, it's like you and I like facing ghosts or something. But when you're in my dreams, it's like we're fighting and I'm. Cause it's a nightmare.

[B]

You and I are fighting, but you and my dreams, we're fighting together. Something else.

[C]

Yeah. I think I'm just so scared of us ever getting in a fight.

[B]

I don't think we would.

[C]

I don't think we would either, but, I mean, my brain is scared of it.

[B]

It's been over a decade. I think if we went, we'll be okay. It's gonna happen before.

[C]

So all that Jeremy saw was the mess that they had made. I obviously did not sleep that night, but during the day, as I was at work thinking about all of this, my inner skeptic rationalized it was just me thinking about those books and the fear that I had convinced myself in my head, and it manifested in this scarier experience.

[B]

Honestly, that's an interesting thing to conclude and come to. And I feel like a lot of people don't, us included. It took Greg and Dana Newkirk to basically be like, no, no. You can create haunted objects yourself, for sure. So many haunted objects are haunted for a specific person and not for anyone else.

[C]

And also so many houses and places. Like, we were just talking about the Hinsdale house a couple episodes ago, or last episode. Where there's so many things that have happened here. And while the hauntings might have been at one time what they were, now there's so many people who have visited, and it's almost like the thought form has created so many different hauntings.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

This is why the power of your internal thoughts is so real. Like, if you think negatively all the time, you're gonna. You're gonna live and feel negativity.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But if you trick yourself and say, today's gonna be a great day, Even though you don't feel it and just keep repeating it.

[B]

Power. Till you make it.

[C]

Till you make it.

[B]

Although you just made me. My mom said that there's been a lot of activity. Cause they're living in the main house right now. And she had told the spirits in the Vermont house, like, oh, you can come with us. We're jumping ship a few borders. And then she said that there has been quite a bit of noise and activity in the main house. And it does make me wonder if any spirits came with them from our Vermont house Or if it's just people who already exist there. Because there have been.

[C]

There were hauntings. Yeah.

[B]

Grammy's husband had died there, Though he never made a peep after his death. So I don't know. I don't know. But also, like, half of my family had had houses on that lake. So I am curious of now that my parents are, like, actually spending time there if all my dad's relatives are, like, coming. Welcome back to the lake, Bill.

[C]

Bill. Yeah, I don't know. Or is it your Vermont ghosties?

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

Okay. So now Jeremy says story number three. Basically, in my church group, I have one very close friend, and he is dating this girl. That is bad news. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I play nice, though. But one Sunday, he sits next to me and starts texting me. And we talk, whatever. But then I ask, oh, where's your girl? She hasn't been here in a while. And then he looks at me confused and texts me. I thought you knew she got possessed. I also love their texting during church. I do that with my siblings. I haven't been in years. But when I go, okay, I instantly assumed he was fucking with me and told him off a bit, like, shut up. I'm not falling for that. But he kept persisting. And then the part of me that was raised on these stories Starts to ask more questions that immediately got shut down because we were not supposed to talk about this stuff, which reminded me a bit of how my mom lately reacts when I tell her and ask her about Ali. So he does look like he was being rather honest rather than fucking with me. So I let it go and I ask the girlfriend's sister about where Jewel is again, Jewel's a fake name, and Jewel's sister says, oh, she's not doing really good right now. Which I thought was weird because Jewel is trouble and we all know the shit she does. Especially her sister loves telling us about all the trouble that Jewel got into. So leaving it at that, I decide this is the perfect time to talk to my mom about Ali. So I bring it up, and as usual, my mom goes quiet. So that next weekend was when I went to my aunt and I got her story, and I was getting ready to ask all my other family members about Ollie's possession. And this is where it gets real. The night after I come home, after my aunt tells me the story and told me who to ask and who to go to, I'm about to go to sleep with my demonology book still underneath my bed, as it has been for the past year, even after the episode in the last story. But now I sleep upside down, basically facing the other side of the drawers, just in case. Just in case. But that night was the worst.

[B]

I love that there's still hope like that. Just your position will protect you.

[C]

Change it. Yeah, that night was the worst. I woke up frozen. Again. I tried not to panic, which I'm usually pretty good at because I have a lot of coping skills. I was calming myself when I heard that drawer shifting back and forth over and over. And the wall that I was facing has a mirror. So as soon as I heard this, I literally stare at myself in the mirror trying not to shit myself, which I don't know if it's possible to do that during sleep paralysis, but it's in that moment. I'm staring and I keep hearing this drawer shifting, as if something is trying to open it faster, louder, until it's literally banging. And I see the ramp blocking the drawer literally get thrown across the room. And then I hear the drawer slam open. I have never seen objects move during an episode until this point, so I'm in full panic mode because Jeremy's watching in the mirror, being able to see all of this. I'm now in full panic mode, trying to force my body awake, but that never helped. And again, I hear the sound of wet bones crunching again. And I just force my eyes shut, only peeking open for a few mini blinks to see. And what I see is that figure Fixing himself behind me in the red glow. I'm trying not to focus on any of the details, but I could already tell that this was so different because it was not just a shadow figure. I know that if I had kept my eyes open, I would see exactly what it looked like. But I refused to look until I felt its hot breath over me as it hunched over me. And in my head, I kept saying over and over, go away, Satan, I'm not scared of you. Go away, Satan, I'm not scared of you. I just kept repeating that over and over until the hot breath went away. I kept my eyes shut as hard as I could and I tried to gain power back into my body. Slowly, just as I started to make progress, I peeked my eyes open just so I could make sure I was finally alone. And that's when I finally saw it. It looked like it had red and black skin, but it was hard to tell with the lights in my room. But I instantly knew this was a demon. And I knew exactly what brought it here. On his chest was a pattern of one of the sigils in my book. It looked like it almost been branded on his chest. And at this point, I couldn't even force myself to close my eyes. I just stared and watched as he leaned over me from the mirror. And I saw it open its mouth over my head. And it felt like he started licking my ear with his hot, rough, steamy tongue. It did not feel like a human tongue. It was more cat like, dry and grainy. And at this point, I started repeating the saying again in my head. Go away, Satan, I'm not scared of you. Go away Satan, I'm not scared of you.

[B]

This person opened up the email saying that they're skeptical.

[C]

Well, it said that this experience specifically has started to change. Okay, yeah, it wasn't working, so I added more to it, saying God's name in Hebrew along with it. Go away, Satan, I'm not scared of you. I have Yahweh. I kept repeating this, and I remember it so distinctly that the voice and the words that came out of the demon was not English. And when I listened to it, I knew it was psychically in my head, not being spoken out loud. He told me, next time, God won't save you, Jesus. I've tried to remember the exact words as they came out of his mouth and tried to find what language. But I've tried all types like Hebrew and Latin and other biblical languages, but nothing have matched the sound or dialect I heard. But I think even if I did Find the language now, I wouldn't be able to recognize it or realize I found it. Basically, after he spoke to me, poof, he was gone. And I was able to get control of my body again. I had to act calm while I cleaned up my room before I would go to get my mom because I wanted to tell her, but I couldn't let her see the books that I had been hiding under my bed.

[B]

The terror. That's the time that you do share that.

[C]

As I was cleaning up the books, I saw that only one was open. And it was open to the page with the sigil that I had seen on that entity.

[B]

Oh, that's really creepy.

[C]

Like, either the demon came out of that book or it opened it to that.

[B]

Wait, and this is reminding me of. It was campfire stories that you hadn't been able to attend. But this one woman who had lived in Utah, I told you this before, that they had sigils all around their family property to protect them. And then one really bad experience. All the sigils were, like, broken and, like, busted all throughout their entire property during, like, this one attack one night. And now it's making me think about, like, the sigils you create depending on, like, do you accidentally create a certain sheep that actually calls to a particular entity or demon?

[C]

I mean, you know, I don't know much about sigils, and I don't use sigils in my work because I don't know them. But I do believe that they're powerful. Again, it's also like, intention and like, what thought you're putting into what you're doing. Okay, But Jeremy says now all those books are gone, and I really can't call myself a skeptic anymore, but I still do because I want to. I haven't told my aunt about this yet as I want to in person. And I never ended up telling my mom either. What I did tell my boyfriend. He told me to write you guys as I've been sitting on this for a while.

[B]

Yeah, to sit on that alone for so long.

[C]

My boyfriend is also going to be writing you soon about his ghost story that I've always been a skeptic of and honestly has caused a couple of fights. But you'll hear about his basement ghost in the bathtub soon. Eye roll. That is all. And the only request I do have is that you please write me back if you do end up telling the story. Because I want to listen. We email everyone if we read your story. P.S. i have a German shepherd teen now and my Door does not have a lock or like twisty thing that you just. So you just push it to open. And as I was typing this story about the demon licking my ear, I heard loud sprinting and claws on the floor as my dog busted down the door and I no longer have a bladder full of piss. You peed your pants. We love making people pee their pants.

[B]

I think Jeremy made him.

[C]

And that is from Jeremy self pee.

[B]

His pants with all these experiences. This is. This is horrendous. This is terrifying.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

This is like so deep and so hard for every single person in the family. It's like generations of people being afflicted by demonic entities. Possessions. Yep. Being drawn to books because you're trying to make sense of what you've been told. And then it enacting like a demonic near possession in the same way that your family members had experienced or friends of family. Oh shit.

[C]

I agree. Having fear of some of these entities does almost give them more power and they like feed off of fear. And I think that's a common theme that we've heard of in a lot of possession exorcism cases. But there's also the curiosity. And I feel like Jeremy has had to be curious in silence because of the way that the family believes.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And that's almost isolating Jeremy more. Which is what the demon wants. Yeah. But I feel like Jeremy, I think it's safe to say whether you're skeptical or not. And I know like maybe sometimes it's easier to say you're a skeptic because it's makes it feel less real. But we can acknowledge that what you experienced was terrifying.

[B]

Yes. And that it was.

[C]

We don't want to know what next.

[B]

Time is not explainable by what we know of the current world.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Therefore it does seem supernatural.

[C]

But the message that the entity said was next time God won't save you. Let's make sure that there is no next time. And next time God might not save you. But the two girls, one ghost community is here and got you.

[B]

Someone will save you.

[C]

Someone will save you. And we can all just group manifest thought. Power of thought to protect Jeremy.

[B]

And that I'm curious what the sigil is. But Jeremy, don't send it to us. I don't want to know.

[C]

No, send it to me. I want to know.

[B]

No, let's not put more power and thought into that being by even thinking about it.

[C]

Well, I'm not afraid of him.

[B]

But what if he doesn't care about you? What if he cares about having people Think about him. To give him energy to go back to.

[C]

Well, that's why I wouldn't share the sigil with anyone else except for my brain.

[B]

Well, no, no, no. I'm saying, like, what if he feeds off of us talking about him? Yes. And then that powers him up for Jeremy. Round two.

[C]

Okay, so let's not give him power. Let's basically give Jeremy our power.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Jeremy, you are protected. You're surrounded by love and light, and ain't no demon gonna fuck with you. I want there to be a song like, I want there to be like a pump up song about how it probably is. There probably is probably, like a Jesus song.

[B]

That's true.

[C]

Like at one of those churches where everyone likes and, like, claps and gets.

[B]

What is that? A store? That's like. I walked into it one time and I was like, I don't know. Oh, some of this stuff is cute. And then I noticed all the braids. Said like, jesus, what would Jesus do? Yeah. God, where were you? It's like a. They have a few of them in. Hold on. It's like a teen store. Teen clothing store. Jesus.

[C]

Jesus.

[B]

Altered state comes up immediately.

[C]

Okay, next time that if we ever do a. A song Finch sponsorship, we should write. Have them write a song that's specifically that our listeners can play. That's like intention setting.

[B]

Banish the demons. Like, if the demon starts speaking in tongues to you. Speak pick Latin back. I also know Latin demon.

[C]

Yeah. It's the same thing that they say to do humans or intruders, like, be the weirdest thing.

[B]

Be the weirdest.

[C]

Scare them.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. But it's like you can't remember pig Latin. So you speak it really slow. And they're like waiting and waiting and waiting for you to finish your message. To get so bored. And then they leave.

[C]

Yeah. The end.

[B]

And that is how to fight a demon.

[C]

Well, this episode had quite a lot. It brought us through something pleasant, oddities, something mysterious but cool. And then something terrifying. A normal episode of Two Girls My Ghost.

[B]

Yeah, pretty. Pretty normal.

[C]

Just the usual.

[B]

The usual. Well, if you have a story that maybe you haven't told anyone and you feel like no one will believe. We'll believe. We will believe. So you can email it to us@2girls1ghost, podcastmail.com.

[C]

And if you want episodes one week early and ad free and bonus episodes and so many other perks, join us on Patreon. We have two tiers now. Woot woot woo. And the second tier, we're adding some, like, occasional witchy bonuses. We're gonna have our friends, who are more advanced in the witchcraft, give some tips and tricks. So go check us out on Patreon and see what tier suits you. And thank you so much to our editor and producer, Jamie Ryan. And thank you to our producer, Emma, who helps keep everything on track and keeps our brains straight.

[B]

We love you all, and we will see you on the other side.

[C]

Very spooky.