TJG: RHOA S17 E10 with Ben Mandelker!

Summary

Two Judgey Girls: RHOA S17 E10 with Ben Mandelker!

Podcast: Two Judgey Girls
Episode: RHOA S17 E10 with Ben Mandelker!
Date: June 8, 2026
Host: Mary (Courtney is absent this week; guest is Ben Mandelker of Watch What Crappens)

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Episode Overview

This episode is a Bravo-palooza! Mary (from the Bay) is joined by Bravo recapper and podcaster Ben Mandelker to break down the latest in reality TV—particularly the current state of Summer House, The Valley, RHOC, and a deep dive into Real Housewives of Atlanta Season 17, Episode 10 (“Star Spangled Mess”). The conversation takes detours into other Bravoverse news, casting rumors, the art of housewife-ing, and nostalgic pop culture moments.

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Guest Catch-Up and Bravo Gossip

(04:50 – 13:34)

Ben’s Cabaret Recap & Childhood Bedroom Tour

• Ben shares stories from his recent live cabaret in NYC and describes his “childhood bedroom in Katona, New York,” complete with Knicks memorabilia and a 1994 photo with Elle McPherson.
• Ben: "I was so nervous...and it was so fun. The audience was great. Once the first show was done, I was like, okay, nothing to be worried about. This is just silliness." (05:07)
• Mary teases him about becoming the next Luann de Lesseps.

Bravo News Round-Up

• Spritz Feud: Craig, Austin, and Kyle’s public photo suggests peace, but Ben suspects the reconciliation is superficial.
  • Ben: "Bros will always, like, chum it up. But you know that Kyle and Craig secretly don't like each other." (09:57)
• Kyle Cook’s Redemption: Despite recent scandals, Lover Boy merch sales are surging due to viral drama, but Ben questions whether this will have a lasting effect on the business.
• Andy Cohen Honored: Andy’s Newport Film Festival recognition, with OG OC housewives present—speculation about the return of the Tres Amigas for RHOC Season 20.

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What Makes a Good Bravo Show?

(13:34 – 18:40)

RHOC Season 20 Hopes & Housewife Dynamics

• Ben believes OC is on solid footing but warns about leaning too hard on nostalgia with Vicki.
  • Ben: "Vicki is fun, but I found that she's been better as a friend of for me than as like a full-fledged housewife." (12:51)
• Discussion of how cast chemistry, aspirational content, and regional “vibes” (East Coast pop culture buzz vs. California “suburbia”) affect how viewers connect.

Aspirational vs. Relatable (The Valley, Summer House, RHOC)

• Ben and Mary debate why some franchises feel less “aspirational”—The Valley, in particular, suffers from being too “everyday” when compared with Summer House or Salt Lake City.
• Mary: "I've never thought of it like that, and that's a very valid point." (16:17)

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Summer House & In the City: Forecasts and Fates

(18:40 – 26:52)

Summer House: Future Casting Speculation

• Sierra, Amanda, West, and Kyle’s status for next season—lots of uncertainty, especially around Amanda after recent scandals.
  • Ben: "I don't know how you organically have West and Amanda back in the Summer House because they all are upset at them and they're all hurt." (20:26)
• Sierra is rumored (but not confirmed) to return, possibly joining after a stint on Love Island.

Newbies on In the City

• Georgina and Yvonne get praise for being fun and authentic; Kenny and Whitney are less popular.
  • Ben: "I really like Georgina. She's sort of goofy and fun... For me, it's like Georgina and Yvonne and then hate Kenny, hate Whitney." (22:20, 23:17)

The Carl-Danielle HJ Debate (Lighthearted Bravo Lore)

• Mary asks if Danielle gave Carl a handjob in the infamous cab ride.
  • Mary: "I've been asking everyone this question. It's a very important one. Do you think Danielle gave Carl an HJ?" (25:49)
  • Ben: (after a thoughtful pause) "Um, yes." (26:01)

Carl’s Reality TV Future & Post-Summer House Path

• Ben is skeptical Carl has much runway left as a “compelling” reality star, despite recent positive growth and sobriety.
  • Ben: "His narrative for the past few years has been, like, he's not confident... He's a bit timid... It's just not a—those are not the qualities one looks for in a reality star." (27:00s)
  • Ben and Mary joke about treating Carl like a “rescued rabbit being released to the wild.” (29:58)
• Discussion of Lindsay and Carl as friends possibly “taking over Bravo” (Mary is hopeful; Ben is skeptical).

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Rhode Island Housewives & Regional Scandals

(39:08 – 49:07)

Jo Ellen, Gary, Rula, and Brian—Infidelity & Open Relationships?

• Rumors about Jo Ellen and Gary, and Rula’s willingness to assume the best about Brian amidst cheating rumors.
  • Mary: “She's been very forthcoming... I feel like whatever’s happening, they know about it with each other.” (39:40)
  • Ben: "Some people are so entranced by fame that they don’t even think for a moment that all the bad stuff is gonna come out." (41:07)
• Rula’s passive presence (“barely seems like she’s awake,” per Ben) and speculation whether cheating rumors are real or engineered for storylines.

Liz & Alicia—Abuse Allegation Fallout

• Discussion of whether their reunion “peace” will hold after Alicia called Liz "abusive," which Ben predicts will be a major point of drama at the reunion.
  • Ben: "Honestly, being called abusive, especially these days and on a public platform, that's a really big deal." (44:44)

Pizza Mama Pilgrimage

• Lighthearted, travel-nerd banter about visiting famed Rhode Island establishments (Pizza Mama, Audrey's, Twin Oaks), and Ben’s snack research into “pizza chips vs. pizza strips.” (46:54–48:21)

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Real Housewives of Atlanta S17E10: “Star Spangled Mess”—Recap & Analysis

(51:00 – 63:16)

Overall Season Thoughts

• Both Mary and Ben are enthusiastic about Season 17—great energy, strong cast, funny episodes.
  • Ben: "Atlanta has been struggling... But this season has been really funny... The energy is really good." (51:09)

New Cast Reviews

• K. Michelle: Divides opinion; brings paranoia and “girl group” baggage from previous reality TV experience.
  • Ben: "She’s clearly bringing baggage from previous shows... but I think that’s really funny to watch." (52:28)
• Shamia is called out for “Drama Club” energy—a try-hard Anne Hathaway type.
  • Ben: "Enough already. We get it. You went and saw the acapella band last night. She's a very Anne Hathaway." (53:25)
• Phaedra: Not much storyline, but always brings the funny and should stay in the mix.

Notable Plot Points

• Shamia Cheating Rumor: Angela accuses Shamia of hooking up with Hawks and Falcons players; Portia’s reaction raises suspicion that she may have provided the tea.
  • Mary: "Portia removes herself from the conversation... Do you think this is because Portia told Angela this?" (54:09)
  • Ben: "Right off the bat, I'm gonna say yes. Portia said this and Portia was being messy." (54:09)
• Shamia’s Surprise Party: Elaborate but likely not a surprise; speculation on her loyalty and ambitions.

Acting, Singing, and “Drama Club” Aspirations

• Shamia auditioning for Pinky’s TV show—general consensus: she’s spreading herself too thin.
  • Mary: "Be one person. Stick to one thing. Be good at one thing to start with." (58:51)
• Sadness at watching Shamia pursue pop stardom when “the window for that” might have closed.
  • Ben: "I feel like the window for you being a pop star is closed. That's done." (59:13)

The Drew vs. K. Michelle Feud

• Their feud boils down to paranoia and misunderstanding, but it’s entertaining and likely to fuel reunion drama.
  • Mary: "K. Michelle has inadvertently made Drew relevant this season." (62:39)
  • Ben: "[K. Michelle] posted something on X a few weeks ago... She mentioned everyone but Drew. I was like, oh, the rivalry continues to this day." (61:48–62:06)
• Drew’s assistant/driver/stylist crew is hilariously chaotic—Ben likens them to kids playing “grown-ups.”

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Notable Quotes & Fun Moments

• On the current Bravo landscape:
  Ben: "Orange County is not very aspirational. When Summer House is on and Summer House is so aspirational, the Valley is probably the least aspirational show that they have." (15:36)
• RHOC Fashion Shading:
  Mary: "Marshalls behind the gates. I agree with you. I don't know how Gina and Emily are still on this show." (15:26)
• On Carl’s TV Persona:
  Ben: "We've treated him like this sweet little animal that is coming out of Kyle... a little rabbit coming out of the cage." (29:58)
• On Rula’s tepid presence:
  Ben: "Rula is a weird one... When she is there, she barely has enough stamina to get through a sentence." (42:15)
• On Shamia’s many talents:
  Mary: "Be one person. Stick to one thing. Be good at one thing to start with." (58:51)
• On Drew’s crew:
  Ben: "...like when kids are, like, the school play, and they're like, you know, nine years old, but they're playing, you know, doctors and lawyers or whatever." (62:51)

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Segment Timestamps: Quick Reference

• Cabaret Catch-Up & Childhood Tour: 04:50–08:39
• Bravo Gossip—Spritz Feud, Kyle Cook, Andy in Newport: 09:36–13:34
• RHOC & Aspirational TV Discussion: 13:34–18:40
• Summer House & In The City Speculation: 18:40–26:52
• Carl/Lindsay Dynamics & Recovery Talk: 26:52–32:24
• RI Housewives, Scandal & Pizza Mama: 39:08–49:07
• RHOA S17E10 Recap Begins: 51:00
• K. Michelle & Shamia Discussion: 51:09–59:54
• Drew/K. Michelle feud, Assistant Crew: 61:07–63:16

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Closing & Plugs

• Ben promotes Watch What Crappens podcast and his social media (especially his campaign to hit 50,000 Instagram followers):
  Ben: "Give me a follow because I'm always striving... If I get to 50,000, maybe I can do some cool influencing things and make some videos..." (63:28)

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Summary

This episode was a lively, in-depth round-up of Bravo hot topics, summer casting rumors, and housewife happenings, seasoned with Ben's signature irreverent humor and rapid-fire pop culture references. From the dance of frenemies on Summer House, through the regional personality quirks of various Real Housewives cities, and finally into the mid-season RHAtlanta mess, Mary and Ben serve up plenty of shade, speculation, and sharp observations for fellow Bravo junkies.

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Transcript

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[Mary]

Welcome back to two Judgy Girls. This is Mary from the Bay and today we are joined by our good friend Ben from Watch what Crappens. Ben has been in New York and he has been taking the stage for his cast.

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How was it over the weekend?

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh my God, it was amazing. Mary. Thanks first of all for having me. It's hard to fill the esteemed shoes of Courtney, but the cabaret was great. We did three shows last week. I was so nervous. I was like, oh my God. Like this is Gonna be a disaster. Will it be fun? And it was so good. It was so fun. The audience was great. Once the first show was done, I was like, okay, nothing to be worried about. This is just silliness. And so then the last two shows were just like, we're able to, like, have a ball with. And so it was a great, great experience. Ultimately.

[Mary]

Easy breezy. You could let those pipes flow.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, my goodness.

[Mary]

My hope is that the show will go to LA and I'll be able to fly down and see it someday maybe.

[Ben Mandelker]

I mean, who knows? Like, if we were to do it in another city, it would be la. Cause the thing is, otherwise you have to, like, figure out the piano situation. And, you know, that's a lot to, like, fly a piano player around the country.

[Mary]

Right.

[Ben Mandelker]

But, you know, it could be. Maybe there'll be, like, another life for it in la, which would be really great. We could find, like, a good, like, intimate room, a little cabaret, do a little stint. That'd be amazing.

[Mary]

That would be so good.

[Ben Mandelker]

Make sure there's a seat just for you right in the front.

[Mary]

Thank you. You would. You would channel your inner Luann De Lesseps, who. We've seen Luann together.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yes. And actually, you know what's so funny is that on Friday, the day of our cabaret, when I was in New York, I was inv. To go onto the Jeff Lewis show, and luann was a guest, and I would have been on with Luann, and I was like, the irony of not being able to be on a show with Luann because I'm doing cabaret. It was just so beautiful and rich.

[Mary]

That is too, too good. Now tell everyone where you are today.

[Ben Mandelker]

Today I am broadcasting from my childhood bedroom in Katona, New York. Good. And all the glory. Are people seeing this on video or they just going to hear it?

[Mary]

I will clip some of it. So.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay, so look.

[Unidentified Guest]

Ooh.

[Mary]

Do you. What do you have in there? Like, any, like, high school memorabilia, books?

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, actually, I'll show you exactly what I have. Cause, of course, my parents have also converted it a little bit into a sort of an exercise office.

[Mary]

Sure.

[Ben Mandelker]

Look at the wall there. Do you see? Go New York. Go Nicks. Which is very appropriate.

[Mary]

Yes.

[Ben Mandelker]

And that's a picture of me with Elle McPherson in 1994.

[Mary]

So how come that didn't make it to. To LA with you?

[Ben Mandelker]

The McPherson picture? Maybe? I think I took a picture of it. I've got my. I've got a ticket stub for The Knicks from 1994. Very excited about these Knicks being in the, in the finals. We hope that they win.

[Mary]

They have shut out so far. Right. They won every game. Right.

[Ben Mandelker]

But tonight, you know what, here's what I'm worried about. Donald Trump is going to the game tonight and I feel like it's going to become like a distract and I feel like the Knicks are going to lose because of Trump and it makes me really nervous.

[Mary]

Ooh, you know, we'll have to stay tuned. Hopefully his energy won't change anything for them. Yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

Thing. Let's, I feel like just stay away, stay away, you know, stay away, stay away from our Knicks. But yeah. Welcome to my childhood bedroom. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm sure my mom really appreciated me showing off the crap that she's mounted. And my mom used to have an office and so when she retired, all this stuff just moved in here. Plus also just like years of just junk that just winds up in magazines. I've got a magazine here from like 1999. It's a rolling Stone. Who's on the COVID Tori Spelling. Here. This is when magazines were thick. Look how thick this is.

[Mary]

Yes, Tori Spelling. Oh, she has Burnett. The girls of Scream 2 and the Pleasures of Terror.

[Ben Mandelker]

Was she in. She was in Scream 2. I forgot about that. The Pleasures of Terror. Oh, so this is 1997. Should I open up to a page? Some, some page and see? Let's see what we can find in here. It's. I actually, you know what I love are the ads, the ads of the time. Here's an ad for BB slot of cigarette ads. Versace, Sarah McLachlan. I think success of Lilith Farrow got rid of some of that old school pig dog mentality.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's amazing.

[Mary]

I'm glad they kept that.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, I'm glad this got to stay. Neve Campbell. Wow. It's kind of amazing. This is a different time, different time of life. These old magazines.

[Mary]

A good read tonight.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Before bed. Yes. Okay, well, let's get you up to date right now because over the weekend a lot happened. This photo with Craig, Austin and Kyle hit the Internet this weekend. It appears that the sprit feud is over. What did you think about that?

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, it's always good when a spritz feud can be put to bed. I have to say America can finally exhale. So you know that, that was good. I, I mean, I feel like they don't still like each other. I think Craig is really good at being playing nicey nicey and he puts on his smile and he's Charming, but, like, bros will be bros. You know, Bros will always, like, chum it up. But you know that Kyle and Craig secretly don't like each other. And what they probably did was applied a bandai was, like, the only reason I was, like, mad at you is because, like, Paige. Paige was saying things, and, like, I actually always thought you were, like, a cool guy. Like, yeah, bro. I just, like. Like, I don't know, like, we just can't let these things happen or whatever. They probably said something so that way they could, like, find a way to hang out and socialize. But I think that Kyle still thinks that Craig is a joker.

[Mary]

And to be able to post a picture on the Internet. I wonder if they fight about who's going to post the picnic. You know? Like, is Kyle, like, racing to the phone to get it out there first or Craig? Because obviously this was gonna be a very big deal.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. And then you have Austin. I think Austin hates Craig. So, like, I think that they're all kind of just being opportunists in the moment, and they're like, let's hang out. We're bros. We don't like each other, but we're bros. Bros kind of do that thing, you know?

[Mary]

Yes. And Kyle was down there doing a DJ set. And rumor is that Kyle and Sally were hooking up over the weekend.

[Ben Mandelker]

Wow.

[Mary]

And then he's also seen with another fan making out with her. I mean, Kyle Cook. Talk about this redemption arc. This was supposed to be his worst season ever. Yet this scandal saved his company and his reputation.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, has it saved the company? As are the sales up now as a result? I know that there was, like, a fundraising moment where people all. All rallied to get Lover Boy, but is it. Has it really saved his company, or is it just, like, a little, like, surgeon?

[Mary]

I would say a surge, but, I mean, they sold out every piece of merch.

[Tom Merritt]

Wow.

[Mary]

All of the Lover Boy. They did a restock. It will be interesting if they're able to capture those customers as repeat customers of buying the.

[Ben Mandelker]

Not just, like, a novelty of, like, oh, my God, I got a Lover Boy thing. Maybe people were thinking, like, fire sale. Like, this is my last chance to get a Lover Boy sweatshirt before this thing goes under.

[Mary]

Oh, that's a good point too, you know. Yeah. It's truly, truly wild. And then also this weekend, Andy was recognized at a Newport film festival, and the OG of the OC Presented the award. And after they all went to the QW, the quiet woman. How do you think season 20 is going to Be the Trace Amigas are back in action. There was a great photo of the three of them this weekend, laughing, looking happy. What do you think is going to happen for season 20?

[Ben Mandelker]

I think it'll be fine. I can't tell if it'll be a really good season or not. I've. I think Orange county has been really good for the past few years. I even liked last season quite a bit 2 years ago I thought was excellent. So I think there's good cast chemistry. I just don't want to over promise with Vicki. Like Vicky's. Vicki is fun, but I found that she's been better as a friend of. For me than as like a full fledged housewife. But I think it'll be good. There's some seasoned pros on there. Everyone on that show has been on there for a while at this point. I don't. Is there. I think they're the only newbie is like a friend of. Right. Like a genuine newbie. Is there any. Is there like a fresh new housewife?

[Mary]

No, I don't think so. That's a good point.

[Ben Mandelker]

I think we're gonna see the Trace amigos doing their thing. Heather Debo is gonna feel like she's on the outside. She's gonna have to spend time hanging out with Gina and Emily, which she's not gonna like doing, but gonna have to do that. Jen's gonna float around. Jen will still fight with Tamra, but then like the. The Trace amigas will also have their unsteady drama triangle wherein like Shannon and Tamara will still be hashing out stuff and Vicki will be moderator and then Shannon's. They're all gonna like gather their armies. Shannon will gather probably Gina and maybe Emily and then Tamara, I think will probably recruit Heather, but I don't know. I think it should be good. I think it's just really hard because we've come off some really good seasons in general and sometimes that of like all the other shows and sometimes that pivot back down to Orange county can be a hard one. It's like, it's so suburban and like Law. Sometimes that like, even though like Rhode island is very suburban, sometimes just like going down to Orange county just kind of feels like a little sad.

[Mary]

It feels different. I agree with you.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Mary]

I think Vicki can also lean into physical comedy too much. She thinks she's Lucille Ball and it's like, you don't need to act, honey.

[Ben Mandelker]

A lot of that. I think it's also hard. I think like right now Summer House is really taking up a Lot of our brain space, and now we have it in the city. And I just feel like some of, like, the California shows are hard to sometimes pivot into when we are in, like, a very strong New York pop culture moment with Bravo.

[Mary]

Yes.

[Ben Mandelker]

You know, so it's, like, really hard to get, isn't it? Like, hard to go from, like, Summer House and also, like, in the city, all these, like, lush, layered fall looks of. Of New York City urbanites to then going to, like, you know, Cota de casa and whatever. Whatever crap Gina's wearing.

[Mary]

Marshalls behind the gates. I agree with you. I don't know how Gina and Emily are still on this show. It is truly wild.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's wild. You know what it is? Orange county is not very aspirational. And so I think what it is is that we have some really aspirational stuff on. And we've been talking about this a lot, about how a lot of people have been, like, down on the Valley this season, and I actually like the Valley, but I think, again, when Summer House is on and Summer House is so aspirational, and the Valley is probably the least aspirational show that they have, so it's, like, really hard to get into the Valley when you have something that's, like, more inviting, but, like, at different times of the year. Like, if Salt Lake is on, I think that's a really good time for the Valley to be on, because Salt Lake is not aspiration. Not that aspirational either. It's sort of aspirational, but, like, it's kind of just like. It's more like some, like, you know, the weird places that they go to.

[Mary]

I've never thought of it like that, and that's a very valid point. And, you know, the Summer House saga is coming to an end. Tomorrow is the. The final. Final. How do you think they're going to wrap it up?

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't know. I feel like there's still so much to discuss. I think what's gonna happen is tomorrow, I'm assuming we're gonna get more granular about the timeline and everything, because Andy said we're gonna come back to this. So I think we're gonna get timeline, maybe some questions about, like, why did you not reach out to Ciara? What were you thinking about West? You've been saying that you're not ready to present as a boyfriend, and yet you're willing to go down this path. So I think we're gonna get some, hopefully some hard questions on that front, and then I don't know what Else what other topics might come up over the course of that? Maybe some stuff about, like, Kyle and Amanda's relationship falling apart.

[Mary]

Right. And the whole Miha of it.

[Ben Mandelker]

The mija. We need to get that. Well, they did sort of tease that. They're gonna like. They're gonna sort of like pull out her on FaceTime.

[Mary]

I'm very curious how that's gonna go down if she's gonna be like, on the phone in the stage, or they're just gonna say, we've been speaking with Miha and this is exactly what she says. I also. Because on Watch what Happens Live, it'll be Jesse Solomon and then Rachel Lindsay, which makes me think that Rachel Lindsay is the person that was able to figure out the leaker, which everyone thought it was Jennifer Lawrence. Rachel Lindsay's out of nowhere on Watch what Happens Live if she's not connected to the leaker or finding who the leaker was.

[Ben Mandelker]

You know, I think that, like, Rachel Lindsay is, you know, she's in our space. She's wonderful. I like, literally am obsessed with her. She's so great.

[Mary]

She's amazing.

[Ben Mandelker]

She's amazing. I was actually supposed to do her show a few weeks ago, but we had to reschedule. Here's maybe one of the reasons why Rachel has also been brought on. Cause she can also give the unique perspective being a black woman dealing with like, asshole white guys who like, with what Ciara has had to deal with. Maybe they've said, like, let's have Rachel. Cause she can give that perspective, which is a really important perspective probably for our audience to hear. Aside from the fact that she. She's also a really great podcaster. Aside from the fact that she's also a celebrity. So like, she's just like. She's just like the best. She's like the most qualified person that they could have possibly had. On tomorrow night.

[Mary]

I just. I feel like it's connected to the leak somehow. I'm. I'm very curious. Well, I guess we'll. We'll watch what Happens.

[Ben Mandelker]

Andy said it was like, from a podcast or something like that. And then I never really followed up to see, like, who did it. And they. He said it was Jennifer Lawrence. Did we ever find out how Jennifer Lawrence would have done it?

[Mary]

Tomorrow night they are going to, I think, tell us about finding out about the leak.

[Ben Mandelker]

Really?

[Mary]

I think.

[Unidentified Guest]

Wow.

[Mary]

I think that's why Rachel Lindsay is on Watch what Happens Live.

[Ben Mandelker]

Wow. Well, if she did. If she is the one who figured it out, well, that's very exciting.

[Mary]

I'm I'm.

[Ben Mandelker]

Is there anything she can't say?

[Mary]

I hope I'm right. I hope I'm not spreading fake news. Okay, who do you think will be back on Summer House next season, focusing on Sierra, Kyle, Amanda, and West? How is that going to go down?

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, Sierra is coming back.

[Unidentified Guest]

Okay.

[Ben Mandelker]

You know that right after she's done with Love island, she's gonna. She's gonna rejoin Summer House.

[Mary]

That's not confirmed.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, it's not? Oh, I thought I had read that. It's not confirmed.

[Mary]

No.

[Ben Mandelker]

If that were to happen, then that means that she would come on to Summer House probably, like, three. Three weekends in. I think she'll be in Fiji, which is probably great for production because they'll be able to do some buildup. You know, even before this happened, I was even suspecting that maybe she just doesn't. Like, she doesn't come back. Like, her star has been rising even before this all happened. She was at the Oscars. You know, she was. She's just been going up and up and up and, like, it's like, I suspected she was about to fly the coop anyway, but I think. I don't know. I don't know how they handle this because this is not, like, scandal, because they have to be so intimately, like, they have to live amongst each other.

[Mary]

Yes.

[Ben Mandelker]

So, like, I don't know how you have. How you organically have west and Amanda back in the Summer house because they all are upset at them and they're all hurt.

[Mary]

Right.

[Ben Mandelker]

And, like, the basis is, like, these are our friends that we're vacationing with. Like, it does. Doesn't make any sense that. That west and Amanda would be there. They could maybe build in something where Jesse says, like, well, I feel bad for Wes. He's like a brother, and I want to, like, help him through it. I don't want to feel bad for the gu. You know? You know, but I really don't. I don't think Amanda comes back.

[Mary]

Okay, so do you. So maybe no Amanda, maybe no Sierra. Is Kyle gonna come back? Is Wes.

[Ben Mandelker]

I think Kyle 100% comes back. That's, like, not a question. I think Kyle's back. I feel like, no Amanda. I feel like Amanda even wouldn't want to. She's gotten so much, like, flack for this. She's gotten way more than west has. She's someone who's. Who's also, like, I think she's dealt with her mental health, and so I imagine that she probably is just gonna stay in the city. She probably doesn't wanna be around Kyle. She doesn't wanna be around any of it. She wants to remove herself. So I'm gonna say that Amanda will not be back west for some reason will be. And I don't know how or why they do it, but I think Wes will be back.

[Mary]

Okay. Interesting.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Mary]

And you think Amanda can still be on in the City? Is Kyle gonna be on in the City too?

[Ben Mandelker]

I think Kyle will continue to do in the City. Kyle is like, professional reality star. I don't know what the. I don't know what the future has for Amanda. I wouldn't be surprised if, like, this is it for her with reality tv. She disappears for a little bit. You know, she wasn't originally cast on Summer House. She sort of wound up on it.

[Mary]

I often talk about that because she's the only member that was not cast. She just started dating Kyle, so she ended up on the show. And I think that's a very interesting point.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Let's talk about in the City. Who are your favorite newbies?

[Ben Mandelker]

I really like Georgina. I think she's. She's sort of goofy and fun, and so I really like her.

[Mary]

You can tell she's, like, quirky, charismatic. You're getting her real time reactions this past week when they're on the bench and Lexi is telling Whitney that Kenny might not be that into you. Georgina's like, like, why would you tell her that to her face? Are you psycho? Her jaws on the ground. And the robot that was Lexi delivering that information was quite strange.

[Ben Mandelker]

I know. I was so surprised that Lexi was like, the messy one. The bone. The bone collector here. I was like, really? Lexi? I like Yvonne also. I like that. I like her sort of Emma Stone voice where she's like, I just, you

[Unidentified Guest]

know, I really want to have a baby. And like, I like to party. Just waiting for Lindsay to come out at night. It's just like a really hard thing for me to wait for her.

[Ben Mandelker]

I think she's really fun. I think it's like, for me, it's like Georgina and Yvonne and then hate Kenny, hate Whitney. Gavin is like, fine. But I feel like maybe Gavin thinks he's a little funnier than he is. What?

[Mary]

Just the way they're like, hate Kenny, hate Whitney, and just.

[Ben Mandelker]

I mean, Kenny is awful. He's awful.

[Mary]

I like that he is able to go against Lindsay. You know, I have. I have my ups and downs with Lindsay because I'm a Carl guy. I'm a Carl girl.

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't think that he can go against Lindsay. I think that he's, like, failed every single time he's tried.

[Nikayla Matthews Akome]

Okay?

[Ben Mandelker]

He's so fragile and so delicate. And, like, the way that he read so much into what Lindsay initially said and the way he harped on it and moped about and then was passive aggressive and confronted her about it, and she's just like, fuck you, dude. I love that she was the one that was like, I'm not going to coddle this man, baby. You know what? Like, this is his problem. He has to grow up. He. This is a guy who works in finance. He's in VC funding. He is just in a bro world, and he does not ever get spoken to by. To. By women like that. I believe. And Lindsay is like, I'm not having it. I mean, just look at this twit that's on his arm. Whitney, who's just like you. Oh, my God, Kenny. You know what? She's gonna be the worst kind. She's gonna be the kind who she's now gonna vilify Georgina and Lexi for coming to sabotage her relationship when they were actually trying to help her. And she's just gonna stand by Kenny's side and she'll be. She'll be vile. I know. She will be.

[Mary]

That is a very good point, I think, that you're making. I can see that going down. They're gonna be thick as thieves, and she's just gonna believe anything that Kenny says. Although, at very nervous to confront him, it felt very awkward. There's something about this show. It does feel like a freshman season, for sure.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. Well, she was nervous to confront him because the dynamic is that, like, he's always right, and she's, like, afraid of upsetting him. Like, her big stance was that she, you know, was like, I'm. I want my wooden balls to be part of the decor. But, like, ultimately, you can see that, like, this relationship, it's all about Kenny, and he calls all the shots. And she gets, like. Gets scared to, you know, to push button, to push back.

[Mary]

Yes, yes. I've been asking everyone this question. It's a very important one. Do you think Danielle gave Carl an hj?

[Ben Mandelker]

Um, yes.

[Mary]

That was a long pause.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, I had to visualize. I had to imagine, because normally I'd be like, I feel like Danielle would actually just go. Go right for a blowy. But then I was also imagining it's Carl, and I thought, like, I could see this being. I'm gonna say yes. I'm gonna say yes. She did.

[Mary]

I. I have to know. I cannot wait for Lindsay to Be on his podcast. I pray she tells him, asks him what happened in that cab ride. Because the fact that Danielle is pregnant, walking around, being asked if she gave it HJ is truly, truly wild. What do you think's gonna happen with Carl in reality tv? Will he go back to the summer house? Could he transition to in the City?

[Ben Mandelker]

I think he's got one more season in him. I think that, like, Bravo doesn't want to, like, disrupt anything too much. I think they're gonna want to, like, have a lot. A lot of people there, especially, because there will be some, like, foundational things, whatever. So I think Bravo's got. I think Carl's got one more left before. It just doesn't make sense for him to be on the show anymore. I don't think he's gonna be on in the City. Cause I think Carl is just, like, on his. He's on, like, a different path now. I don't think he's on the reality star path. He's on the wellness path. He's on the marathon path. You know, it's just a little different. And, like, whether he is delicate or fragile, I'm not sure, but, like, has he. He's definitely been presenting this way, like, oh, watch out for Carl. I mean, this whole thing with Carl's a mess. The reason why it's also funny because it's like, of course Carl's a mess. Of course. Like. Cause Carl's always, like, distraught about something. He's just like. I don't know. I never know the reality of, like, who someone is versus how they present themselves on reality tv. But, like, his narrative for the past few years has been, like, he's not confident. He's. He's a bit timid. He's scared to do this, he's scared to do that. He's. He's emotional, he's sad, he's introspective. It's just not a. Those are not the qualities one looks for in a reality star.

[Mary]

Of course. However, he has sparked this new relationship with Lindsay as friends. Do you think the viewers would want to watch that?

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't think so. I. I don't. I just don't know if Carl in this state is truly fascinating enough. I think he's very sympathetic. And, you know, I've. I've always been suspicious of Carl because for so many years, was, in my mind, the biggest fboy on the network, like, or up there with Jax. He has a way of kind of always making himself the biggest victim in his own stories. And so I've always been like, hmm. Ronnie and I both have been like that. We've had, like, a healthy amount of skepticism when it's come to Carl. But I will say it's been a few years. He has been walking the walk. And, you know, at what point do you let someone out of reality, Reality star jail? So it's hard to say. But I think one thing, whether you're skeptical or not, I'm not sure he's as. He's terribly compelling these days. You know, he's just, like, a nice guy.

[Mary]

Ben, that hurt my heart. I am a Carl apologist, and I think what Lindsay said at the reunion, this is the person you've always wanted to be, and it's a beautiful thing to see, and you've, like, finally reached where you want to be. And I think the audience would love to see Lindsay and Carl be thick as thieves and take on Bravo together. But you make some points.

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't know. I agree with her. I actually think that right now, Carl does. This season, it seemed like he was a bit more chill. I feel like the past few seasons, everything's been like, oh, no, be careful because of Carl. Carl might hear that. Oh, no, don't upset Carl. Carl's not. Oh, good. Carl's talking to a girl. Always talking to Lil. Oh, my God. She wants to learn magic. And he's interested. Oh, I'm so happy for Carl. I feel like we've. We've treated him like this sweet little animal that is coming out of Kyle.

[Mary]

That's Kyle.

[Unidentified Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben Mandelker]

You know those nature videos where someone rescues, like, a little rabbit from, like, a storm drain, and they nurse it back to health and they release it to the wild, and then rabbit comes out of the cage as, like, do

[Unidentified Guest]

I really have to go?

[Ben Mandelker]

And I feel like everyone's been treating Carl like the little rabbit coming out of the cage going back into the wilderness. But I did, like, this season was the first season in a few years where he seemed a bit more chill. Like, not chill, but, like, there wasn't as much of this, like, oh, no. Oh, no. This is. I need to go, like, retire into the corner. And, like, I say this as someone who's very delicate myself, so maybe that's why I see myself in Carl. Okay. I'm very fragile and delicate. There have been a lot of people on Bravo, on reality tv, and in real life who go on a sober journey, and I think it's wonderful, and they do it, and it's great. But I feel like Carl's has been the one the most of. Like, be careful, be careful. Don't speak too loud. It's Carl. He's sober, whereas everyone else is like, yeah, I don't drink anymore. And everyone goes on their own journeys. But I feel like this is the first season where he was able to be personality forward, not injured forward.

[Mary]

A wounded baby rapid it.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yes. Being released back into the wild after some rehabilitation. So that being said, what I'm, I'm saying that, like, I think it's. I'm happy to see Carl where he is and it's nice that he and Lindsay are mending things and seem to be on the up and up. But I feel like Lindsay and Carl taking Bravo over together is just going to be Lindsay taking over. Bravo and Carl be like, oh, I totally support that, y'. All. What Lindsay said, y', all totally.

[Mary]

When you talked about us watching people get sober on Bravo, what came to my mind was Bronwyn from Orange county in that season that she got sober. That was so crazy.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, that's another Watch where crap ends. The Crappies is a very influential award show. As you may. As you know, I was there. You were there. That's right, you were there. You remember how drunk she was?

[Mary]

Yes.

[Ben Mandelker]

Bronwyn. Bronwyn Winden Burke was wasted at the Crappies and she got up and she was like defending Tamara. She was really, she was like passing out, like in the audience. She went to rehab the next day. It was the next day. And she actually posted on her stories about a few months ago. And she was like, this marks the five year anniversary. I was at the Watch for Crappin show and I was just so drunk that like, I went into rehab. I stopped drinking and I was like, okay, so we've got Bronwyn going to rehab because of the Crappies. We had Kyle passing out at a friend's house because of the Crappies. I mean, what can we do next?

[Mary]

You never know what's gonna happen at the Crappies. It's always a good time. You just don't know what's gonna come out of it. Let's take a break and we will talk about Atlanta.

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[Mary]

we will talk about Atlanta for a good amount of time. I just want to quickly ask you about Rory.

[Ben Mandelker]

Okay.

[Mary]

Do you think Jo Ellen cheats on Gary?

[Ben Mandelker]

You know, that's what everyone's saying. Maybe I'm naive. I don't think so. I don't.

[Rothy's Advertiser]

I agree with you.

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't know her enough to really make that assessment. It's like, I feel like I still have yet to learn so much about Joellen and how she operates and moves. You know, I just. I can't tell. I know that the rumors are that they swing, but I just can't tell. I can't tell.

[Mary]

She's been very forthcoming. I mean, on watch what happens live, talking about the threesomes, I. I feel like whatever's happening, they know about it with each other. What are your thoughts on Rula and Brian?

[Unidentified Guest]

I.

[Ben Mandelker]

In terms of what I think, she obviously is someone who just wants to have her head in the sand. I think that she. They have kids, and I think that she's probably concerned about the kids. She doesn't want to damage the kids, which is, by the way, too late. You signed up for reality tv. They're screwed for life. Sorry, but that's just how it goes. But I think that, like, she's probably. Because there are kids, small, sweet, adorable kids involved. She probably is like, screw this guy. But also, like, I want to keep my family together. I want my kids to have good upbringing. So I think she's just looking the other way for the. For the children.

[Mary]

Well, I found it very interesting last night that, you know, Rosie presents her with the information about the video, and

[Rothy's Advertiser]

she immediately kind of is trying to

[Mary]

deflect, like, Alicia, why didn't you tell me about this? Because we're better friends. And then Brian walks up. He immediately already has the Answer Timestamp. Timestamp. Then they throw the whole thing under the rug and take shots. So to me, I'm like, are Brian and Rula in on something together? Because why would you sign up for reality TV if you're actively in an affair?

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, some people are just, like, not bright. Some people don't realize that it's stupid to go on TV if you're having an affair. Some people are like. They're so entranced by fame that they just don't even think for a moment that all the bad stuff is gonna come out.

[Mary]

So, like, I think they're in on something together.

[Ben Mandelker]

You think that they maybe have, like, an open relationship?

[Mary]

No, not even that. I. I don't know what it is. Is the way that she's willing to protect him. There's something going on.

[Ben Mandelker]

Do they get staged like a state, Like a stage mistress? And that way it's to make them more relevant because the rumor is that she was a friend of. And she got elevated to full on housewife because of this.

[Mary]

Well, that makes sense, because the lack

[Rothy's Advertiser]

of filming is sincerely crazy.

[Mary]

I feel like this last episode, they were like, you have to throw the finale party because you haven't done anything

[Rothy's Advertiser]

in the group setting.

[Mary]

So you have. You're in charge of that. And then because she didn't invite Joelle and because. Why would you. They throwing together Block Island. Yes.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah. This little. This little trip they're gonna make. Yeah. I don't know what's going on. I think. I mean, like, Rula is a weird one in general. Like, she barely seems like she's awake. When people were like, why does Rula getting the second seat at the reunion? She should be first. I was like, what show are you watching? She's not there. She's not there. And when she is there, she barely has enough stamina to get through a sentence, you know? But, like, yes, the affair has been, like, largely dominated this season, but she really is not, like, a very strong Real Housewife. So. Yeah, I don't know. I just. To me, I just see a dumb guy who thinks he can get away with stuff because he's, like, a doctor who thinks he's, like, a master of the universe and it's all gonna work out because it probably always has worked out.

[Mary]

He fascinates me. I'm. I love him. After two tequila shots, Courtney's calling him Dexter. There's something there.

[Ben Mandelker]

He's like a. He reminds me of, like, a. A slutty capybara, you know, I know

[Mary]

exactly what you mean?

[Ben Mandelker]

You know what I'm saying? I'm not even sure if I said that right. Capybara. Capybara.

[Mary]

Capybara, yeah, capybara.

[Ben Mandelker]

Like it just capybara. He's like a capybara who's going around sleeping with all sorts of ladies in Rhode Island. You know, it's crazy. Scandalous. Capybara.

[Mary]

One last question. The Liz and Alicia fight come together this week. They both kind of apologize to each other. What do you think's gonna transpire for that? Cause it feels like it's not over completely.

[Ben Mandelker]

I feel like it's not over. And I think that Liz is gonna be really mad at the reunion.

[Unidentified Guest]

I think she's gonna be like, you called me abusive. I'm your best friend. You call me abusive.

[Ben Mandelker]

I think when Alicia called abusive, I

[Unidentified Guest]

was like, sorry, that's how I felt. Good to say it. But she's abusive.

[Ben Mandelker]

I was like, oh, this is going to be at the reunion. This is going to be a big issue. Liz is going to flip her shit because honestly, being called abusive, especially these days and on a public platform, that's a really big deal. And so I think there will be a. It'll whatever like, piece they have now is going to get torn wide open by the reunion. But I think that they will mend fences by the end of the reunion. They're just going to be people who go up and down all the time. I think for right now, Liz. I don't think Liz really wants to fight with Alicia, so it's easier to transfer all that emotion onto Joellen, who she doesn't really care about. And she will. It's also better because she can mend fences with Alicia. She can also potentially recruit an ally in that brewing war.

[Mary]

Can you, like, do an Alicia impression for us?

[Unidentified Guest]

Cracker? You want to have a cracker?

[Ben Mandelker]

No.

[Unidentified Guest]

Want to. You want to have a. It's your skit, you know.

[Ben Mandelker]

You know what's funny is that I. So I'm up here in Katona, New York, and I desperately hoping that I can make a little road trip to pizza mama because 2 hours, 45 minutes away. That's not bad. Oh, my God.

[Mary]

Wait.

[Ben Mandelker]

Island nice.

[Mary]

I. I'm going to Boston this summer. My in laws live on the Cape and I already googled it. I'm like, it's an hour and 30. I'm like, oh, we are a hundred percent going. I definitely want to do one night in Newport. I've done that before when I've stayed at my in laws. So my hope is that they will watch Baby Charlie. Me and Michael will get one night. We will go to Audrey's. We'll go to Pizza Mama.

[Ben Mandelker]

Assuming Audrey's is still open.

[Mary]

That's a good point. That's a good point. And I want to go to that mob restaurant, Twin Oaks.

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, Twin Oaks. I don't really want to go to Audrey's. Like, Audrey's, like, upsets me. I think it's a bad coffee shop. I just look at it and I'm like. Like, it's like what the dad said or the mom said. And I was like, that's what I said last week. It's too big. There's too much space. I don't get this thing. It's a coffee shop, but then at night they have a cocktail program. Nope, nope. That does not work. And then you're having trivia. Trivia night at night at the coffee shop. Nope. It's like, it's not enough of a coffee shop to be a coffee shop, not enough of a bar to be a bar. I don't want anything to do with it. And when I see all those, like, Italian syrups on the background where, like, I always think, like, that's the mark of a bad coffee shop. That's like, that's. To me, that's like, you're stuck in 1998. You know, like a coffee shop in 2026 should not look the way Audrey's is. So it makes me mad that he's spending all this time in a coffee shop. That is terrible.

[Mary]

You don't want to be in the same year as that Rolling Stones magazine. Right.

[Ben Mandelker]

If you can imagine yourself reading about the women of Scream 2 while enjoying a flavored coffee, then you're in. You're in bad shape with your shop.

[Mary]

A sign of problems.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yes. But I do really want to go to Pizzeria Pizza Mama. I also want to try a pizza. A pizza chip.

[Mary]

I think a pizza chip is focaccia bread. Right.

[Ben Mandelker]

It looks like it's just like, bread with, yeah, like, marinara sauce on it or something like that. I. I did a research. I researched it. There's pizza chip and then there's pizza strip, and they're largely interchangeable, but the strip is, like, a long thing. But the pizza chip we saw was, like, a big, round thing. I really hope I can make it up to Rhode Island. It depend on when I can finish podcasting, because, you know, when. When we. When Ronnie and I record, it goes on for hours on. On end sometimes. So if I can get out of here at a decent hour. I will hop in the car and drive up I95 to Rhode Island.

[Mary]

So you're gonna do the three hour drive in one day. So six hours round trip.

[Ben Mandelker]

We finish our podcasting at like 1pm could drive up there, have a slice of pizza around 4:30. I don't know what else I'll do. And then drive back. Be back around 8 o'. Clock. It's not the worst.

[Mary]

Okay. I also make sure before you go, check to see if it's open that day in the hours.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Just in case. Could you imagine if you did the drive and it was like, we're closed on Mondays?

[Ben Mandelker]

I would be furious. I'd be like, Alicia, you should have included this in your Shark Tank presentation that you're open seven days a week. I don't know. I think that, like, I probably won't be able to do it after all. I think like, if I could find like a friend to go up with me, then maybe I would. But just doing it by myself, it's a long ways to go.

[Mary]

That sounds like a journey.

[Ben Mandelker]

It's a lot, but it could be so great.

[Mary]

Unless I really want you to go. Maybe you should spend a night go

[Ben Mandelker]

and you can, so I can't. The reason why is because the podcasting and have to go down to New Jersey on Friday for bat mitzvah. So it's like I'm being, if I had this weekend, no problem. But like I'm being torn in all sorts of geographical directions.

[Mary]

I'm so.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm being torn between two different franchises, the original Italians and the new Italians. I want to go to Rhode island, but I'm, I'm. I'm being dragged to New Jersey instead.

[Mary]

You're just an og. You're an OG at heart. Okay, let's take a break and we'll actually talk. Atlanta.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yay.

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[Mary]

okay, this episode was called Star Spangled Mess. Lots going on. What are your overall thoughts on the season?

[Ben Mandelker]

I think it's so good. I think Atlanta has been struggling for at least five, if not seven years. It has been in such a Ruth. I liked last season quite a bit. In fact, I thought it was shaping up to be a great season. But I think after Kenya flamed out, I think that they didn't really know what to do and then the rest of the season sort of just kind of flopped its way to the end. But this season has been really funny. I think K. Michelle has been a great addition even though she is out of her mind. I think Pinky has been good as like, she almost has like an annoying kid sister kind of vibe, you know? You know, I think she's good. Phaedra being back full time, not just the last three episodes is good. So I think like, the energy is really good. It's really funny and, um, I like it a lot. What about you?

[Mary]

I'm really enjoying it. I think K. Michelle had a very strong start and I just feel like the girls are coaching her and trying to explain to her on camera, this is Housewives. This is the Playbook. And she is not understanding it. She's extremely paranoid and I just don't know what's gonna happen with K. Michelle. I think Bravo could give her a second chance, but she's really Gotten in her own way when I don't think these women have necessarily come after her.

[Ben Mandelker]

She's clearly bringing baggage from previous shows that she's been on. I mean, she even says it in the beginning of the season. She keeps on saying, I've been in these girl groups before, these girl groups. I think she's just trying to get ahead of storylines or whatever, but, like, to her own detriment, where she's actually causing the storylines that she's trying to get ahead of. But I think that's, like, really funny to watch. I feel like we've never really seen that happen before. And she's very, very funny with her confessionals, and she does. She's good for a quick read. So I think she's, like, kind of great. I know people are really annoyed with her, but I think that she actually deserves another season, like, automatically. I think Shamia has. Has been a little rough. I think Kelly's, like, not the best. I think they're just. I've always historically really enjoyed Shamia as a friend of. Even last year, I liked her, but I think this season and she's just too much of a drama club kid. You know, it's like, enough already. We get it. You went and saw the acapella band last night. You know, she's like one of those people. She's a very Anne Hathaway.

[Mary]

Oh, I hate Anne Hathaway. Ever since Princess Diaries had never liked her.

[Ben Mandelker]

You know, I don't hate her, but I see why she annoys people. And, like, Shamia definitely has that. That, like, drama club vibe that's so deeply annoying.

[Mary]

Angela's claiming that she was sleeping with Falcons players and Hawks players. Now when they all meet at Lake Bailey, Portia removes herself from the conversation she doesn't want on film. Her reaction. She goes to the bathroom. Do you think this is because Portia told Angela this?

[Ben Mandelker]

Oh, that's a good. That's a good theory. I didn't even think about that. But, like, right off the bat, I'm gonna say yes. I'm gonna say, Portia said this and Portia was being messy. I took it at face value that Portia's like, I don't want to even be accused of saying that I laughed at something or that I liked something. You know, it's gonna be used against me, so I'm just gonna remove myself. But, yeah, that could be. Although, I don't know. Portia would.

[Mary]

Porsche Bersha and her were best friends. She would know a lot. I'm also assuming This.

[Ben Mandelker]

I could see that.

[Mary]

I'm also assuming this Hawks, Falcons thing. Also two different teams, guys. The Hawks and the Falcons are two different teams. One is the NBA and one is the NFL. Yes.

[Ben Mandelker]

Falcons are the football, Hawks are the basketball.

[Mary]

Yeah. I feel like this might be for.

[Ben Mandelker]

From a.

[Mary]

A while ago. What do you.

[Ben Mandelker]

That's the thing. If it comes out like, well, she did. She did have a boyfriend who was on the Hawks. I was like, but that was before Gerald. It's like, who cares? You know?

[Mary]

Mm. No. This feels like it happened years ago, but I don't know. With the timeline of her marriage.

[Ben Mandelker]

Right. I don't know. I don't actually don't really see Shamia as someone who's, like, a cheater.

[Unidentified Guest]

I feel like she's.

[Mary]

I mean, she's had this extravagant party for her husband this week. This. This party looked fantastic. Do you think he really thought it was a surprise?

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't think that he thought it was a surprise. I think he was like, wow, we are still in our. In our photo shoot costumes, just driving home for some reason. He's like, something's up. And it's my birthday. Something is up. I think he knew. I don't know. I don't.

[Arm and Hammer Cat Litter Advertiser]

But I just.

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't see Shamia stepping out on him. I just don't. I don't know why. I just don't see it.

[Mary]

I see.

[Ben Mandelker]

I see Shamia as kind of like a. A big old dorky girl, you know, who, like. I don't know. I just. Not that dorky girls can't have affairs. I just feel like she's focused on, like, singing songs or something. I don't know. I just don't see it.

[Mary]

And then they're kind of alluding to this week. So Kelly is wasted at this party, and she's like. Starts crying.

[Arm and Hammer Cat Litter Advertiser]

She's just like, you guys are my

[Mary]

couple's girls, and you and your husband are so strong. And. And then people are like, have they all. All slept together? K. Michelle's like, I want to get in on that with my husband. And the whole time I kept on thinking, where's Jarvis? Who do you think Jarvis is?

[Ben Mandelker]

I don't know. I think there's, like, a whole world of Atlanta personalities that I am not aware of. The people that are, like, known. They went to a memorial for a guy who they said was a rising star in Atlanta. I hadn't heard of him. That doesn't mean that he's not a rising star. That's also, like, very much like you can ask me about, like, someone in the world of board gaming. I'm like, well, of course I knew they're huge, and everyone in the world would be like, who's that? So I just am in my own little spaces. But I do think, like, every city has its kind of celebrities, and I feel like there's probably a lot of people in the world of Atlanta that are known that, like, maybe are, like, very regionally famous and. Or noteworthy, and so maybe Jarvis is just one of those. He's just a regionally famous person.

[Mary]

Would you say that Drew is a regionally famous person? Person?

[Ben Mandelker]

No. I think she's nationally famous. I will give Drew, like, some credit. Like, she was in legitimate movies. She, you know, she has had a legitimate career. I just think that Drew thinks that she's a bit more famous than she is. And she also is, like, a perpetual liar and bullshitter.

[Mary]

Above being in Pinky's TV show, right?

[Ben Mandelker]

I mean, she actually is above being in it to some degree. But also, you don't want to. You don't want to show the people that keep that on the inside, you

[Mary]

know, the way she was like, I

[Ben Mandelker]

think he's doing, like, a $40,000 TV show. Like, there's no world where $40,000 covers expenses for a TV pilot that's of any quality.

[Mary]

That is true, you know?

[Ben Mandelker]

But that being said, Drew, don't come in there and be an asshole about it. Be like, sure, I would love to. She's like, I just want to support. The way you support is you just go through the motions of auditioning. If you're a real actress, play the part of someone auditioning for Pinky's role and then politely decline afterwards. I mean, everyone knows that's what you do. You say yes to everything and let your agents say no.

[Mary]

Do you think Shamia did a good job at the audition?

[Ben Mandelker]

I thought she was okay, actually. I thought she was all right. What did you. What did you think?

[Mary]

I thought Pinky was very sweet about it. It's really. Shamia's so interesting because she. She really has her hand in it all, and I think she's playing too many cards. She's like, I want to be a singer. I want to be an actress.

[Arm and Hammer Cat Litter Advertiser]

I want to be.

[Mary]

It's like, which. Be one person. It just stick to one thing. Be good at one thing to start with. I loved Shamia when she first came in, and she's tried to be the queen bee, and it hasn't worked out for her, so it is hard to watch her this season because, yeah, it just.

[Ben Mandelker]

There's something, like, sad. I thought it was sad last season when she was trying to be, like, a pop star. And I'm. I'm like, I really hate to be the one to say this, but I feel like the window for you being a pop star is closed. That's done. I think it's like, you have a very small window in your life. We can't all be Cher and Tina Turner, who have these fine popularity outside of that window. And so watching her do that, I was like, oh, this is a little sad. This is a little deluded. But I was like, okay, acting you have a better shot at. But I agree. That's why it feels very Drama Club. It's like, I'm kind of good at singing, I'm kind of good at acting, but, like, not great at any of those things. It's rough.

[Mary]

It is. It's hard to watch. But I also find it interesting this season, like, Phaedra doesn't have a storyline. I mean, Phaedra does nothing.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah, but she's funny. I mean, the thing is this. I don't think everyone always needs to have a storyline, because I would rather have someone just be part of the group and come over for lunch and be funny and like. And talk or fish or fishing or whatever, move the show forward rather than sit through endless scenes of them with their family. That feels like, inauthentic and boring. Like Portia, to be fair, that's a good point.

[Mary]

But the. The hot dogs, garlic powder, and Kool Aid fishing moment was a highlight for me.

[Ben Mandelker]

I. I did enjoy that.

[Mary]

I thought it was very interesting too. Like, Phaedra's like, so K. Michelle, sometimes you have to do things for the greater good of the group. Just think about going to Drew's thing, because she's like, this is Housewives, babe. You have to film people, and even if you don't like them, you're going to show that on camera. And I will say, this was a very cinematic moment at the end when K. Michelle was like, Drew showed up. She was totally caught off guard. Drew sang the national anthem beautifully, by the way.

[Ben Mandelker]

Very nicely.

[Mary]

Yeah, a beautiful rendition. And she was like, oh, not her again. I'm not gonna sit here. She's like, I'm gonna go to the bathroom. She gets up her purse, and Shamia's like, no, no, no, no, no. I'm keeping your purse. You're gonna come back. And she doesn't come back. Her assistant ends up getting the Chanel purse. But Shamia and K. Michelle singing at the end, the way that it just, like, went out of them singing Star Spangled Banner was so theatrical, cinematic, amazing. But where do you think her and Drew are gonna go from here? K. Michelle and Drew.

[Ben Mandelker]

I think it's gonna just get worse and worse. Michelle posted something on On X a few weeks ago where she was just, like, praising everyone in the cast. She's like, I love you for this and you for your wisdom and you for this. She mentioned everyone but Drew. I was like, oh, the rivalry continues on to this day, for sure.

[Mary]

For sure.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yeah.

[Mary]

So they'll have some things to discuss at the reunion.

[Ben Mandelker]

Yes, I think they'll have a word or two to discuss, which is funny because, like, I think Drew is the biggest scam artist, and she's, like, fraudulent. But I also think that, like, K. Michelle really hatched this whole thing in her mind. I don't think Drew was trying to undermine K. Michelle. She mentioned that thing like, oh, you know, black. Like, it was, I think, totally benign. But now they have a rivalry because K. Michelle has accused Drew of being underhanded. And Drew's like, what? What did I do? But I love it.

[Mary]

K. Michelle has inadvertently made Drew relevant this season. If she didn't have this, he would just have her pitch a reality TV show of her assistant, driver's stylist, hairdresser,

[Ben Mandelker]

which I would watch. Those are all a whole bunch of messy people who I feel like they don't even know how to do their job. They saw their job descriptions on TV and are like, I would like to do this, please. And they're all pretending to be professionals. It's like when you see kids pretending to be adults or like, when kids are like, the school play, and they're like, you know, nine years old, but they're playing, you know, doctors and lawyers or whatever, and. And you're like, you don't know what this is about.

[Mary]

So good. So good.

[Ben Mandelker]

This is so funny.

[Mary]

Oh, man. Okay, Ben, I can't hold you any longer. Tell everyone where they can find you, where they can listen to your podcast. Watch what Crappens.

[Ben Mandelker]

Well, Mary, you can find the podcast Watch what Crappens anywhere you listen to your podcast, whether it's Apple or Spotify or anything in between. You can also give our. Our show a follow with on Instagram at Watch what Crappens or Crappens on X. And by the way, as long as you are in the mood to follow people, give me a follow because I'm always striving. I've been quietly striving just to hit 50,000 followers for no good reason. I I just am hoping that if I get to 50,000, like maybe I can do some cool influencing things and make some videos and be like look, it's this is tuna. I love this brand of tuna tuna. So yeah, follow me en mandelker on Instagram and threads and Twitter. Wherever you want to follow me, I'll be there. I'm really shameless on these stress.

[Mary]

I hope you'll be the king of tuna salad.

[Ben Mandelker]

I'm hoping. I really feel like tuna could be a great lane for me. It'd be really wonderful.

[Mary]

I could do so much with it that Bethenny Frankel. Oh man. Okay, well, I will let you go. Thank you so much and have a great rest of the week. Bye.

[Ben Mandelker]

Thank you Mary. Great seeing you.

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[Hayden]

on Howdy howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.

[Tom Merritt]

And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball. But you can call me the Smash Daddy.

[Hayden]

And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Stephen here has not read Mistborn before.

[Tom Merritt]

That's right.

[Mary]

Hey.

[Tom Merritt]

Hey. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every script, single chapter.

[Hayden]

And along the way, we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.

[Tom Merritt]

News flash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find Fantasy fan fellows wherever you get your podcasts.

[Hayden]

Okay, caller one wins courtside seats to tonight's game. What? I won floor seats.

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[Hayden]

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Congrats.

[Tom Merritt]

You can stop calling now.

[Hayden]

Not a chance. Hit any look for every occasion at Men's Wearhouse. Love the way you look.

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[Danny Pellegrino]

The Real Housewives is a guilty pleasure for most, but if you're looking to not feel guilty about that pleasure, tune in to Everything Iconic with Me, Danny Pellegrino, where I break down all the messy moments and behind the scenes antics of Bravo's popular franchise. On Everything Iconic, I also interview celebrity guests like Kelly Ripa, Kiki Palmer, Drew Barrymore, Cameron Diaz and more about their guilty pleasures, their past work, and so much more. So if you're pop culture obsessed and find yourself watching way too much reality TV like me, tune into Everything Iconic with Danny Pellegrino. Wherever you listen to podcasts,

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