TJG: RHOC S20 E3!

Summary

Two Judgey Girls: RHOC S20 E3!

Podcast: Two Judgey Girls
Hosts: Courtney and Mary
Episode Date: July 24, 2026
Episode Theme: Recapping Season 20, Episode 3 of The Real Housewives of Orange County (“Why Can’t We Be Friends?”), with a special celebration for Mary’s son Charlie turning one, plus the latest in cast drama, relationships, and RHOC fashion.

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Main Theme Overview

This episode is a lively dissection of RHOC Season 20, Episode 3, centering on fractured friendships (particularly between Tamra and Shannon), navigating family and motherhood (including Mary’s personal experiences), and the often performative, high-stakes nature of reality TV. The hosts infuse their commentary with wit, pop culture references, RHOC trivia, and candid personal anecdotes, making for a highly engaging discussion both for Bravo super fans and casual listeners alike.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Celebrating Charlie’s First Birthday (03:34–10:35)

• Mary reflects on her son Charlie’s first birthday and her experiences of new motherhood.
• “It takes a village. I think I didn’t realize how much help I was going to need.” (Mary, 04:20)
  • Describes motherhood as unexpectedly all-consuming, requiring more hands-on work than anticipated.
• Parenting Surprises & Favorite Memories
  • Charlie is described as a “crazy guy”—energetic and constantly social.
  • Mary candidly talks about the emotional push-pull of wanting time alone, then missing Charlie immediately.
• Relationship with Husband as New Parents
  • “We literally at this point—Charlie is such an alligator that two people have to change the diaper.” (Mary, 08:59)

Real Housewives of OC Recap – “Why Can’t We Be Friends?” (17:38–53:16)

The Tamra vs. Shannon Saga (17:42–23:06; 42:57–53:16)

• Origins & Fallout
  • Tamra called Shannon a “drunk” and said she’d “never get a man”—statements the hosts agree are deeply cutting and hard to move past.
  • “The thing is, sometimes what she says is the truth, but you can’t say it out loud.” (Courtney, 17:42)
  • Both hosts discuss how RHOC often films reconciliations out of order, making it confusing for viewers.
• Forced Resolution at the Quiet Woman
  • The hosts note the pressure to force Tamra and Shannon’s reconciliation for storyline purposes.
  • “It just felt so disingenuous…there was actually no resolution.” (Mary, 51:19; Courtney, 51:40)
  • Vicki is brought in as the “referee” at the iconic Quiet Woman restaurant; the whole scene comes off as staged.
  • “Vicki’s bar is so low. She’s like, why can they not get back together? It’s not like anyone’s slept with anyone’s husbands or stolen money from each other!” (Mary, 48:43)
  • The hosts reflect on Tamra's pattern of stirring drama for the sake of the show, not real life.

Sophia Moves Out / Tamra’s Motherhood Arc (19:45–21:22)

• Hosts joke about Tamra orchestrating her daughter Sophia’s move for storyline purposes.
  • “I have created in my head that Tamra was like, all right Sophia, so you’re gonna have to move out so I have a storyline this year…” (Mary, 19:45)
• Tamra reminisces about her infamous bath scene—hosts confirm she regrets it.
  • “At the 20th anniversary panel, when they asked what was one thing you regretted, Tamra said, the bubble bath scene.” (Courtney, 20:28)

Team Tamra vs. Team Shannon (21:03–22:45)

• Both hosts ultimately side with Shannon, agreeing Tamra’s loyalty is always to the show, not to friends.
• Discuss Tamra’s on-screen personality vs. her likely real-life demeanor.
  • “It’s just hard because Tamra, I think in her normal life, she’s fine, but in reality TV world, she amps it up. She wants to make some storylines, but words hurt.” (Courtney, 22:26)

Emily and Shannon’s Workout & Lunch Scenes (23:06–26:24)

• Recap of Emily and Shannon’s gym session with “Dr. Tim” (noting a lack of flashback to his infamous “oh, wow” weigh-in).
• Emily drops umbrella etiquette faux pas, prompting Courtney’s mini-rant on rain manners.
  • “She takes the entire umbrella with her and flings all this water on the inside…someone’s going to have to clean that up.” (Courtney, 23:47)
• Vicki organizes a lunch but exclusions/confusions over invites abound.

Fashion & Accessibility (25:10–25:47)

• OC cast lauded for making fashion accessible (Revolve/Nordstrom vs. other franchises’ designer splurges).

Emily’s IHeart Podcast Conflict with Tamra (25:54–26:32)

• Tamra’s “jokes” about controlling event invites are seen as calculated for show drama.

New Faces & Relationship Dynamics: Jen & Ryan, Gina & Travis (33:25–42:03)

Jen & Ryan

• Mary and Courtney are skeptical about Jen and Ryan’s authenticity, both as individuals and as a couple.
  • “He seems like he makes good money…he’s objectively good looking…and then there’s Jen, who’s pretty, but is a mess.” (Courtney, 35:03)
• Discussion of Jen’s custody struggles, confusion around Ryan’s involvement, and whether Jen’s emotional scenes feel staged.
  • “I feel uncomfortable for the kid because the kid looked uncomfortable in the scene, and I didn’t know if Jen was, like, turning it up for the cameras.” (Mary, 38:44)

Gina & Travis

• Courtney doubts they’ll ever actually get married, but finds their family moments sweet.
  • Gina’s deliberation over her last name and her children’s sense of family identity.
  • “It feels like he doesn’t really care if she changes her name…she’s making it seem like Travis was the one getting upset.” (Courtney, 40:18)
  • Both hosts commend Gina’s glow-up and financial independence: “I love that she’s like, ‘I made more money than Travis.’” (Mary, 41:20)

Meta-Commentary on RHOC & Bravo (33:44–34:49; 26:30–27:29)

• Mary feels there’s too much “acting” and formula on RHOC now, though she can separate “the art from the artist.”
  • “At the end of the day, it needs to be about genuine friendships and people having fun together…everything feels like acting.” (Mary, 34:29)
• Bethenny Frankel critique: ongoing small business/PR drama—“We gotta stop sending things to Bethenny Frankel. She’s so annoying.” (Mary, 26:55)

The Quiet Woman Drama & Andy Cohen Gossip (44:39–47:04)

• The hosts recount a recent real-life dustup where Andy Cohen got the bill at the Quiet Woman and Shannon allegedly was miffed at having to pay.
  • “Andy Cohen can afford it…I’m not worried about Andy Cohen paying to go to the Quiet Woman.” (Mary, 46:47)
• The Quiet Woman is cemented as the show’s unofficial battleground, providing classic RHOC moments.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tamra’s Reality TV Persona:
  “Tamra is the villain…she will do anything for the show and for the money and for the fame.” — Mary (28:01)
• On Forced Reconciliation:
  “It just felt so disingenuous…there was actually no resolution.” — Mary (51:19)
• On the Unchanging Cast:
  “We’ve seen all these years, you guys are the same people you are 5, 10, 15 years ago on this show…Shannon will never get past these insults because maybe it is true.” — Courtney (51:43, 52:13)
• Regarding Andy Cohen & the Quiet Woman:
  “Andy paid the bill and tipped, and Shannon apparently was pissed that they got charged for going to the Quiet Woman.” — Mary (44:52)
• On Gina’s Rise:
  “From casita to mansion, the Gina Kirschen—potentially hyphenated—mold story. We are rooting for her. She’s never looked better.” — Mary (41:03)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 03:34–10:35 – Mary’s motherhood reflections and Charlie’s birthday
• 17:38–23:06 – Main RHOC recap begins; Tamra vs. Shannon
• 25:10–25:47 – OC fashion discussion
• 33:44–34:49 – Mary on the artificiality of RHOC
• 35:03–39:07 – Jen & Ryan relationship analysis and custody confusions
• 40:03–42:03 – Gina & Travis; last name debates & family identity
• 44:39–47:04 – Real-life Quiet Woman/Andy Cohen anecdote
• 51:19–53:16 – Final thoughts on Tamra/Shannon, unresolved apologies, and the frenemies cycle

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

The hosts maintain their signature breezy, judgmental-but-loving tone, blending snark with moments of empathy—especially for cast members’ personal struggles and as new mothers. They aren’t afraid to call out fake storylines or question cast motivations, while always rooting for compelling TV. Fan service moments abound for Bravo diehards: from fashion breakdowns to pop culture zingers, this episode delivers both tea and comic relief.

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For New or Non-Listeners

• Mary and Courtney’s commentary is approachable but rewards deep Bravo knowledge.
• Their breakdowns go beyond pure recap, infusing personal stories, humor, and critical takes on RHOC’s direction, cast authenticity, and reality TV production mechanics.
• This episode serves as a dynamic post-mortem of RHOC S20E3, with a refreshingly candid window into modern motherhood and friendship.

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End of summary.

Transcript

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Foreign

[Mary Mahoney]

welcome back to two Judgy Girls. This is Mary from the Bay and

[Courtney]

it's Courtney from la. And we have to address something right at the top of the pod because it is a big, big day on Saturday.

[Mary Mahoney]

Charlie is a one year old. Oh, my God.

[Courtney]

One judgy baby. One judgy toddler.

[Mary Mahoney]

I can't even believe it. I can't even believe it. The fastest year of my life. I almost want to start crying right now.

[Courtney]

I don't know why.

[Mary Mahoney]

I'm feeling, like, overwhelmed.

[Courtney]

Can I put you on the spot?

[Mary Mahoney]

Sure.

[Courtney]

What are five things you've learned in this past year about either motherhood, having a kid.

[Mary Mahoney]

Five.

[Courtney]

Okay, three. One.

[Mary Mahoney]

I mean, like they say, it takes a village. I think I didn't realize how much help I was going to need. I think it's really nice if you have family around to help. It takes a lot of time. Every single day.

[Courtney]

I'd say all day, every day.

[Mary Mahoney]

I didn't realize how much extra work it was gonna be. I didn't think about that.

[Courtney]

What? What did you think?

[Mary Mahoney]

I thought they just kind of come around with you, you know, like they're always with you. But I didn't think about the extra things you were going to have to do on top of. But I, like, always imagined him coming everywhere with me. I got that part of it, but there's just so much more to do.

[Courtney]

You thought he would be like your accessory when you went around, but really you're his accessory for your locations.

[Mary Mahoney]

So, so true. And then as soon as you think something's getting a little bit easier and it does, then something else changes. You know, it's just constantly changing. I think that's the hardest part. You're like, okay, you got. We just got in a good groove. And then something else hits.

[Courtney]

You're both living life for the first time.

[Mary Mahoney]

Yeah. I woke up at 4am with him on Wednesday and he wouldn't go back to bed. Why is this happening? We're at the year mark, but it's because he's getting his back molars now. I think you always think they're teething and everything. I just blame on teething and I don't know what it is really, but I just say it's teething.

[Courtney]

I think that's fair. What's one of your favorite things about being a mom?

[Mary Mahoney]

This is basically my every single day. I'm like, I can't wait for Charlie to go to bed. I'm so tired. I'm just like, oh my God, he's just crazy. I feel like he's a crazy guy and I think he really is a crazy guy.

[Courtney]

He's his mother's son.

[Mary Mahoney]

I got a party guy now. He doesn't even like being alone. He wants to be constantly stimulated with people. And every single day I'm like, oh God, is it almost 7? And then as soon as he goes down, then I start like looking at all the videos from the day and I look at the pictures and I'm like, oh my gosh. I think I created like the cutest thing on the earth. I say this all the time. I'm like this little devil.

[Courtney]

Thank God he's cute.

[Mary Mahoney]

I genuinely think I made like the most good looking baby ever. You know, I know I'm delusional, but I, I genuinely just see like the cutest little boy ever. And it's like, it's so creepy. Then like sometimes like if I wake up in the night, I'm like checking on him and you're like, you want to be with them? Then as soon as they wake up, you're like, oh, no,

[Courtney]

Groundhog's Day. Here we go.

[Mary Mahoney]

I'm just like, oh my God. I just want him to be like in my arms and cuddle and be sweet and like, he's not that baby. He's climbing on you, he's biting you. He's like kooky bananas. But I will say, the other day we watched a little bit of Coco together and like he sat on me and I, I can't wait for us to like have some snacks together and

[Sarah]

cuddle and watch movie night.

[Mary Mahoney]

And I look back even like I looked at some Baja Mar ones the other day and I'm like, oh my God, he looks like so much younger than. Because now he has four teeth on the top and two on the bottom and I'm like, it's just going by so fast and everything. I like look back and I'm like, I took that out for granted. It's like everything's going by so quickly and I love going back and looking at my photos and like sitting in that moment, but I need to sit in the moment that's happening right now and I think that could be a really challeng you to do well.

[Courtney]

They say like the days are long, but the years are fast. And I want to know too. Another question on the spot. What's one of your favorite memories from the past year?

[Mary Mahoney]

Taking him to Baja Mar was pretty special. International. I think it was so fun because you guys were there. Michael's sister met us first. Kind of vacay. That was really cute. I loved when we went down to LA too. And like my parents came as well. I like to make memories and go on vacations and have that sort of stuff.

[Courtney]

Okay. And then I have a two part question. One, what is something that now Michael has been your husband, but now as a dad, what's one thing that you've noticed that has really put him in the dad role or something that you've like fallen in love with more as him being a dad?

[Mary Mahoney]

No, Michael's totally hands on. I think these men now are way more hands on. He can like jump into anything. Ideally. I wish Michael was here all day with me.

[Courtney]

So you want to be a Luke and Kristin?

[Mary Mahoney]

I. I don't know about that. But we literally at this point, Charlie is such an alligator that two people have to change the diaper. We had to actually move to pull ups because we can't get the diaper on fast enough because we're legitimately wrestling. This morning I was alone and he pooed and Charlie had to do it standing up because he won't stay down. And you imagine what could happen. It's like a Janet situation.

[Courtney]

Watch out for the couch.

[Mary Mahoney]

Yeah. So I'm not surprised with how Michael has handled fatherhood.

[Courtney]

And what's one thing that surprised you about yourself as a mom?

[Mary Mahoney]

I think I'm chill with him, but I'm way more weary of like, who can watch him than I would have thought I would be. Yeah, yeah.

[Courtney]

You are very chill. Like at one point when you were like down in la, he was like just kind of crawling all over you and you were on the couch and you could tell that he was just going to fall off the couch and everyone's like. And all you do is just grab a leg and you just like pulled him up like upside down.

[Mary Mahoney]

No big deal.

[Courtney]

And I was like, oh, like you're so chill. Some of our other friends there would not have been as chill if that was their child.

[Mary Mahoney]

Well, he's a sturdy, solid guy. I weighed him today and I think he's 26 pounds. I mean, he's, he's got some padding for falling and now he actually knows how to get off the bed. Like, he knows to put his feet down first. And so he slides down.

[Courtney]

What a smartie.

[Mary Mahoney]

I mean, kids get hurt.

[Courtney]

You know, part of life builds character.

[Mary Mahoney]

Yeah, little bump on the head never hurt anyone, Right? Yeah.

[Courtney]

Well, happy first birthday to Charlie. Our lives have changed because of him. Me included. Yeah, it's your house and I'm just so happy that he's here. And I hope you guys have the best time celebrating him Saturday. So everybody wish Charlie a happy first birthday. Let's take a break and we'll come back with rhc.

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[Mary Mahoney]

Okay, this episode was called why can't we be Friends?

[Courtney]

Feels like kind of obvious why they couldn't be friends because Tamara says and it's mean and she means it. And then she's like oops, sorry for saying you're drunk and you'll never get a man. Why can't we move past that? The thing is, it's probably sometimes too what she says is the truth, but you can't say it out loud.

[Mary Mahoney]

So are we going to see that in the first episode of Ultimate Girls Trip? Yes. Right.

[Courtney]

No. Does it start in Beverly Hills or in Orange County?

[Mary Mahoney]

It starts in Orange County.

[Courtney]

Oh, well, then, obviously, yes, we're gonna be seeing that Quiet Woman debacle.

[Mary Mahoney]

I feel like we're having, like, quite a big missing piece right now by not being able to see that fight.

[Courtney]

I agree. It almost feels like we needed to be able to see that fight and then watch the fallout from it. Yeah, I guess we're already past it. You're right. And again, we can film all these things and turn them around faster than we can with some other shows.

[Mary Mahoney]

Do you think Tamara was drunk when she called Shannon a drunk?

[Courtney]

Yes, of course she was. I think she said that too, because doesn't Shannon retort back, like, you're a drunk? She didn't eat that day. You know it. They're eating cheesy bread and an artichoke. Okay, now, granted, I did see a burger and fries come out at some point at the Quiet Woman, but I was like, the three of you are going to split an artichoke and two pieces of cheesy bread. GLP1s or GLP Wanting.

[Mary Mahoney]

That's the other lie I told. I've told two lies in the last month that I went to the Quiet Woman. Am I a liar now?

[Courtney]

You're such a liar, Camille. Oh, my God. Motherhood's changed you. You didn't want to say that in your answers just a couple minutes ago, but now the truth is all coming out. You're a liar face.

[Mary Mahoney]

Okay, let's talk about Sophia moving out, because I have created in my head that Tamara was like, all right, Sophia, so you're gonna have to move out. So I have a storyline this year, and I need to be an empty nester now. And I need to have hot, hot sex with Eddie.

[Courtney]

Orgy time. Belly button sex back on the table. Get the bat bubble bath going.

[Mary Mahoney]

You know how they have been, like, super nostalgic and giving us flashbacks and referencing everything? What? It's Eddie no camera. Where he created the bath scene.

[Courtney]

Wait. At the 20th anniversary panel, when they asked what was one thing you regretted, Tamara said, the bubble bath scene.

[Mary Mahoney]

I mean, how could you not?

[Courtney]

Could you not? Bbhj, as Mary likes to say, Good trick, guys.

[Mary Mahoney]

Great trick. Works every time. That's how we made Charlie from an hj. That's how it started. Okay, so then Sophia's giving her mom lots of advice about this Shannon situation. So are you team Shannon or are you team Tamara?

[Courtney]

Is someone Team Tamara in this?

[Mary Mahoney]

Well, you seem to defend her a lot.

[Courtney]

Now I'm in the Upside down, and I do understand, and I'm trying to see both sides of everything. My new deck, decade of life. I'm trying to really. I'm using, like, Libra energy of the scales.

[Mary Mahoney]

Okay.

[Courtney]

There's no Libra in me, but my mom's a Libra, so I'm borrowing that right now. And I'm just trying to weigh everything but 0% on Tamara's side here.

[Mary Mahoney]

Yeah. No. And at the quiet woman. It just felt so forced. It was like, yes, you guys have to move on because we can't have another season of you two fighting. And the story arc has to be that the Trace Amigas come back together. That's what it feels like.

[Courtney]

I feel like in real life, Tamara probably is not as high energy and, like, high strong as she is on the show. And she's, like, more chill in these

[Mary Mahoney]

later seasons because she takes her Venus cbd.

[Courtney]

Sure. Honestly, you guys, it's strong. Those are the best gummies, though. Like, I've tried a lot of gummies, and I like a lot of different types of gummies, but I will tell you, the VINA ones, you would never get the munchies. And that's my least favorite part about a gummy is the munchies.

[Mary Mahoney]

Just trying to relax.

[Courtney]

Even though I love a midnight snack.

[Mary Mahoney]

Who doesn't?

[Courtney]

It's just hard because Tamara, I think in her normal life, she's fine, but in reality TV world, she amps it up. She wants to make some storylines, but then she also understands that you have to move on. But it's like you said some really mean things that you can claim you only did for the show, but words hurt.

[Mary Mahoney]

No, but everything she said to Shannon, she thinks, like, that is real.

[Courtney]

Are you team Tamara or team Shannon? Obviously, Shannon, to be fair, you've been defending Tamara too.

[Mary Mahoney]

Okay, I. I will say I have a bit. I. I have. So then we get Dr. Tim, who we have seen previously. I was like, where's the flashback?

[Boost Mobile Narrator]

Wow.

[Mary Mahoney]

When? Remember, that was so horrible. She went in there and she got on this scale, and he weighed her, and he said something mean, kind of like, wow. Yeah.

[Courtney]

He said, oh, wow.

[Mary Mahoney]

We didn't get that flashback, but he's still wearing his Timberlands, and Emily and Shannon are, you know, trying to talk through this. Also, Emily reveals she did lose the 40 pounds. I just. I feel so uncomfortable that we always talk about her weight. It is crazy.

[Courtney]

Well, I will tell you one thing that bothered me that Emily did in this scene. Okay.

[Mary Mahoney]

Okay.

[Courtney]

It is raining in Orange county, and she has a large umbrella, and she opens the door, and she takes the entire umbrella with her and flings all of this water on the inside of the door. And that annoyed me because I was like, someone's going to have to clean that up with a towel. I know. Emily didn't. How hard is it to keep the door open and close the umbrella? Why are you doing it the way you did? And that's a small detail, but it annoyed me.

[Mary Mahoney]

Rain etiquette. Yeah.

[Courtney]

Thank you. You can't even bring an umbrella indoors. It's bad luck.

[Mary Mahoney]

So Shannon's like, ah, you know, I don't know what to do about this Tamara situation. I don't want to be dumb. And go back. And then Vicki calls. Vicki's like, shannon, wanna have lunch? And literally, Emily's in the phone, like, in the phone call. And she's like, like, just with me and you. And she's like, no, no, no. I'm gonna buy tammer too. Emily, you're not invited.

[Courtney]

Okay, but. But the funniest part about that, too, is that the first lunch scene Vicki has, Jen walks in and then Gina. So I'm like, wait, is everyone invited to this ledge scene? And it's not the three of them? Like, they set it up to make us think that Emily.

[Commercial Narrator]

I know.

[Mary Mahoney]

I was genuinely confused at that. Also, the outfits at that lunch, like, Gina. Gina looked cute. She had, like, that fun pink tie,

[Courtney]

oversized, like, jacket and tie. Like, I'm a business woman. I appreciated the businesswoman special.

[Mary Mahoney]

Yes. And then Vicki was wearing her Chanel tweed, I'm sure was a knockoff. And Jen was wearing stripes, guys, horizontal stripe turtleneck. And I don't know, to me, like, all the fashion. I love watching the OC Fashion because you guys, you can buy it all. Tamara links all her stuff. It's mostly like Revolve. It's Nordstrom's. It is attainable fashion.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Mary Mahoney]

Versus, like, Madison Lacroix who posts things. And then we'll do the link and it's $3,000.

[Courtney]

Back to the workout, though, the conversation comes up because Emily brings up. So when we were at the end of the lunch, Tamara comes up and tells me, hey, now that we're cool about the podcast, I'll let I heart invite you to more events. Because I wasn't letting him because I was mad at you. And I said, just kidding, Just kidding. And I'm like, tamara, you idiot, of course they're gonna use this against you now. And maybe she's not an idiot. Maybe she wanted that to be brought up at some point. But I'm like, why would you say that?

[Mary Mahoney]

When Emily did the you're here and I'm here, it was very Rooney, Kelly, Ben, Simone. Yes.

[Courtney]

Bethany Frankel.

[Mary Mahoney]

Yes.

[Courtney]

Wait, have you seen the Bethany Frankel

[Mary Mahoney]

drama, by the way? Oh, no. What?

[Courtney]

So another, like, small business sent Bethany something and Bethany again, like Ward and then linked to something else so that she could get. You know, she's doing that. But her team had reached out to this brand. I don't know the full details, but it's just like, we gotta stop sending things to Bethany Frankel.

[Mary Mahoney]

She's so annoying.

[Courtney]

A nightmare.

[Mary Mahoney]

Yeah, she really is nightmare.

[Courtney]

I will continue to say. It does make me feel good, the fact that Carol is back and Bethany

[Mary Mahoney]

is not the margarit lady. She's gone. She's off Bravo forever. She's going to Burning man, and she'll

[Courtney]

probably try to do a whole thing about Bethany going to Burning Man.

[Mary Mahoney]

Oh, believe me.

[Courtney]

Have you started your commentary yet?

[Mary Mahoney]

He talks about all about this on

[Courtney]

the Patreon, but Mary did say she was going to troll her. Have you started yet?

[Mary Mahoney]

I'm working on. I have something.

[Courtney]

Oh, God.

[Mary Mahoney]

I have something coming together.

[Courtney]

I can't. I can't. But anyways, Emily's going to let Shannon bring it up at some point because they've got to build their ammo. And I think you make a good point though, too, is because these shows are about conflict and they're about resolution. If Tamara didn't say the that she did, they probably move on faster. What is the end goal with Tamara, though?

[Mary Mahoney]

Skip point.

[Courtney]

Shannon can't be cool. She can't be cool and chill and just like the girl who goes with it because she's so uptight.

[Mary Mahoney]

I think the problem is I do think Shannon wants Tamara back in her life because I think they did have a lot of good times and they are nostalgic for the Trace amigos. But Shannon knows at the end of the day, Tamara will stab her in the back and she will do anything for the show and for the money and for the fame. So she's kind of like, I just don't know when that's gonna happen again. Like, is that in a year from now? Is that in 10 years from now? Like, she knows that will eventually happen because Tamara, her life is the show. And I mean, actually, Shannon's is too Now.

[Courtney]

Well, you know what? It is, too. And maybe Shannon should actually take this as a compliment. Shannon really is the only. Only formidable enemy that Tamara can have that can give it back just as much. Going after Emily doesn't make sense. She's B plot. Going after Gina doesn't really make sense. B plot. The stars of the show are the Trace Amigas, and then, by proxy, Heather. And so it's like, if you want conflict, you go against the big dogs, which is why Carmela wants to go against Vicky, even though, as you mentioned last week, they're trying to set it up that she'll go against Gina. And so it's almost a compliment in a way of we're the two stars and we should go against each other. I'm trying to silver line it.

[Mary Mahoney]

Wait. Also, they, once again, like, coming back to the Carmela and Gina thing, they're clearly trying to build this up. They're making it seem like, well, is she a developer? Is she a real estate agent? Is she a flipper? What is she? They're trying to make it seem like she's a nobody or something.

[Courtney]

Is she, though? I don't. What does she do?

[Mary Mahoney]

I don't know. I think she's rich. I think her husband was in the NFL, and they probably do some remodeling, and they make money off of it.

[Courtney]

Did Michael give us any updates, by the way?

[Mary Mahoney]

Oh, he did know who he was. And then he's like, didn't he play for the 49ers? And I was like, I don't know. And he. Did he. Yeah, so he did know who he was.

[Courtney]

So he knew him more as a 49er than as a Brown because he was only at the. On the Browns for, like, a year, I believe, four years. On the Niners, he played for, like, 12 teams.

[Mary Mahoney]

Yeah, he got around.

[Courtney]

Yeah, he. He really wanted a tour of the

[Mary Mahoney]

US and he literally got around on this iPad.

[Courtney]

Carmella on the Jumbotron. On to Cincinnati, where I met big dick Daddy.

[Mary Mahoney]

I met him in real life. But anyway, so Gina and Carmela in real life just went to lunch. That was where. Sorry it took me so long to land the plane on that story. You know what, Kourtney? Let's take a break.

[Sarah]

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[Monday.com Narrator]

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[Courtney]

work and I absolutely love it.

[Monday.com Narrator]

Chasing deadlines, writing status reports, updating stakeholders. Agents handle the daily grind. Now they live inside Monday.com so they see the full picture. My work, my team, the whole company.

[Courtney]

And I don't have about to worry.

[Monday.com Narrator]

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[Courtney]

It's completely shifted the way we work.

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[Courtney]

on Monday.com he's dribbling the ball with

[Boost Mobile Narrator]

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[Boost Mobile Representative]

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[Monday.com Narrator]

Access Evening Buyer's remorse Buy a new car. I'll be moving in. Let's get started.

[Mary Mahoney]

Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana.

[Monday.com Narrator]

You what?

[Mary Mahoney]

Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it. So there's no, no, no buyer's remorse.

[Monday.com Narrator]

More like buyers rejoice, I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it.

[Mary Mahoney]

Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven day return [e-mail]. I'm not buying this gen chip. I'm not buying the OC in general. I just don't know about this show I'm gonna hate. Watch it. I think.

[Courtney]

Okay, I want to know why you're not buying OC as a show in general. But then also after that, go into why you're not buying Jen.

[Mary Mahoney]

I feel we're getting a lot of acting and I can actually move past, you know, Shannon and Vicki's acting. I mean, they want to be Chris Farley. They want to be Lucy and Ethel. Like, I can actually move past that. And I think a lot of people. That's hard for them.

[Courtney]

You know who Vicky is.

[Mary Mahoney]

Exactly. And I can separate the art from the artist, but not with Michael Jackson. That is another story. We should not be playing his music.

[Courtney]

But anyways. Okay. So the oc, you feel like it's being too put upon you that they're trying to make a good season.

[Mary Mahoney]

I think there's like a lot of pressure riding on this series to be good.

[Courtney]

Okay.

[Mary Mahoney]

And I think at the end of the day, it needs to be about genuine friendships and people having fun together. And then of course, you're going to get in fights with your friends, but it just. Everything feels like acting. And honestly, I thought at the end Jen was acting. Crying.

[Courtney]

Okay. So Jen and Ryan are such an interesting couple to me because I actually don't know why he's with her. He seems like. And let's just exclude all the Dodger

[Mary Mahoney]

drama that happened in the FBI stuff,

[Courtney]

but he seems like he makes good money. He seems like he takes care of himself. He's objectively good looking. And then there's Jen, who's pretty, but is a mess. She's a disaster. I'm sorry. She can't get a hold of all of her children. There's a lot of drama that's going on with Will. She has the show. Sure. But she's terrible with finances, terrible with money. There's a lot going on with Jen and I'm not sure unless he's like someone who likes to save someone in like a Kyle Cook way. To Amanda. I just can't figure out why they're together. I also had no idea he had kids. Did we know this?

[Mary Mahoney]

I did know that you did.

[Courtney]

Okay.

[Mary Mahoney]

His closet, though. Those wire hangers.

[Sponsor Narrator]

There were wire hangers.

[Courtney]

No wire hangers. You know what that's from?

[Mary Mahoney]

Yes. It's a scary movie. The Shining. No. Which one?

[Courtney]

Mommy Dearest.

[Mary Mahoney]

Yes. Scary. No. But then I'm like, well, is it because he, like, dry cleans every piece of his clothing?

[Courtney]

Oh, he has a lot of clothes that Jen's stuff is in the hallway.

[Mary Mahoney]

But even, like, why were we watching Jen? Emily is, oh, I did like that.

[Courtney]

I'll wear this in Vegas. And I'm like, oh, they go to Vegas this season.

[Mary Mahoney]

Oh, yeah, yeah. But I'm like, why are we watching Emily come over to clean out her closet? I. I did appreciate the moment that Emily was like, Annabelle really was mad at me last year. Like, she felt like I wasn't supporting her and I had to give all my energy to Luke. I love what she said. Like, so now I go to her cheer practice, I put my phone down, and I watch her for 30 minutes. I'm like, seeing her light up.

[Courtney]

Showing up matters.

[Mary Mahoney]

Totally. I, like, know as a teacher, it was so hard for parents to come to events, and I'd always try to do it at morning pick up or at drop off when you have special events that you want the parents to come to. And I get that. But, like, it lights up their life when you're there. And yeah, everyone, we need to put down the phone more. I'm talking to myself. But then I got to get the videos of Charlie.

[Courtney]

Sure, sure. You have to capture it all through a lens.

[Sponsor Narrator]

I know.

[Mary Mahoney]

But I did think she was giving her, like, good advice. But this Grayson moment at the end, I was like, what is happening?

[Courtney]

And how did Jen make that about her?

[Mary Mahoney]

He was consoling her.

[Courtney]

Exactly. I'm like, this is so crazy. And Ryan talks about this. They need a father figure. And Ryan's, like, doing his best that he can, but the kids are also, like, older. And maybe he came with like, Dominic, but no, that kid's starting fires. But they need a father figure. Where is Will? Why isn't he around? Why Does Jen have 100% custody? Where is he? He's in Oklahoma. Still. He should be wanting to be in his children's lives.

[Mary Mahoney]

It's very strange situation. He definitely lives in Orange County.

[Courtney]

So, like, what the hell is happening then? And why is Jen being like, this is like, all my fault. She was like, I'm sorry. I'm doing the best I can. She should be saying, I need to talk to your dad. Like, we do need to figure this out. If this is something that's really upsetting you and you don't Feel like you can go straight to your dad. That's on me. I need to take that role. I need to do that. And then he's, like, getting up and. Because she's crying so hard, like, this is crazy. And this is part of the problem.

[Mary Mahoney]

I literally wrote in my notes what is happening. I feel uncomfortable. Jen is crying so hard, and then,

[Courtney]

like, what is Grayson being bullied about? Is he being bullied about Jen on the show?

[Mary Mahoney]

I. I don't know. I felt uncomfortable for the kid because the kid looked uncomfortable in the scene, and I didn't know if Jen was, like, turning it up for the cameras.

[Courtney]

And at the end of the day,

[Mary Mahoney]

it feels like Grayson's just, like, hurting and is really missing a relationship with his father. It was upsetting.

[Courtney]

Why does she have 100% custody?

[Mary Mahoney]

I don't know.

[Courtney]

And then for, like, Jen, when she was talking to Ryan and she was like, well, I don't see it. Like, he's like, the dad. Like, Will needs to be in there. She's like, well, I don't want Will to be in our marriage. And he's like, I can't guarantee that because he needs to be a dad to his children.

[Mary Mahoney]

I also feel like none of them are going to get married. Ryan will never marry Jen. I can guarantee that. And I also think that Travis and Gino will never get married. Let's talk about their date night.

[Courtney]

Mary's divorced yet, so I started Googling that last week. Okay, what'd you find?

[Mary Mahoney]

It came up as something different. So in 2021, the ex is a point where their status was bifurcated, and they agreed to share joint legal and physical custody terms to be. Also, like, what they're making now goes to them, that kind of thing.

[Courtney]

But conversation with Gina and Travis, though, I'm like, so is Travis making a big deal of the last name? Are you making this a storyline?

[Mary Mahoney]

No, I think I'm coming from someone that really struggled with this. I think she kind of doesn't know what to do. I. I really do think that. But I also think it's funny because they're not getting married. But.

[Courtney]

But that's what I'm saying, though, because she was like, you know the last name. And Travis is like, if we don't get married because you don't want to change your last name, like, we have bigger problems. It feels like he doesn't really care if she changes her name or that she was making a bigger deal. I think it's a big deal she changes her last name. I Understand that. But she's making it seem like Travis was the one getting upset that she wasn't going to do it. I thought this scene with her son Luca was so cute, though, when he was like, that's okay, we're family.

[Mary Mahoney]

It was very sweet. But at the same time, don't ask a 10 year old if you should change your name.

[Courtney]

Well, I think she just was like, I wanted to make sure that they understood and I'd like a camera to

[Mary Mahoney]

be there when I asked. Ask. No, I really like Gina. From casita to mansion, the Gina Kirschen

[Courtney]

hider, potentially hyphenated mold story.

[Mary Mahoney]

We are rooting for her. Okay.

[Courtney]

She's never looked better.

[Mary Mahoney]

God, her hair is fantastic. The fashion, she's fantastic.

[Courtney]

Her makeup, like, she said, 20th season, I'm turning it up.

[Mary Mahoney]

And I also love that she's like, I'm definitely gonna get a prenup. And I love that she's like, because I made more money than Travis.

[Courtney]

That's right.

[Mary Mahoney]

Yeah. Good for her.

[Courtney]

Women can do it all, baby.

[Mary Mahoney]

Good for her.

[Courtney]

When it comes to these two, though, that's on my prediction. They will get engaged, which did happen. And I said, but they will never get married. They are cute together. I hope that it works out. When she was like, saying it out loud, like, oh, that is strange that she would change her last name to Mullen and then be the same last name as his kids, but not her kids. And you start to think about all that stuff and it's like, psychologically, it's like kind of crazy. What is my identity? Who do I identify with?

[Mary Mahoney]

You know, I. Yeah, I mean, if I was her, I wouldn't want to change the name. I want to keep my kids name. Yeah, definitely. But I didn't even change my own last name.

[Courtney]

It's okay, because you are Mary Mahoney.

[Mary Mahoney]

I am. I can never. I can never.

[Courtney]

No, I actually think Michael Mahoney sounds better anyways. I think that would be adorable. Michael and Charlie Mahoney. It's like, you have one Charlie Mahoney. Why not make it too?

[Mary Mahoney]

My mom was calling Charlie Charlie Dabrowski and I was like, wait, what? I didn't realize that was his last name. It's like, oh, my God.

[Courtney]

I mean, I know it's on the birth certificate, but what we call him Charlie Mahoney in this household. That's his stage name. That's his legal name. His stage name is Charlie Mahoney.

[Mary Mahoney]

Yes.

[Courtney]

This pod is going off the rails right now.

[Mary Mahoney]

Okay, let's talk about Tamara and Teddy. So, God, I felt so bad for Teddi here. She seems so different. Her speech seemed delayed. She clearly doesn't feel like herself. This was tough to watch. And actually, it made me have empathy for Tamara because I think she's been a great friend to Teddy. And they've had a really good thing going with the pod. A lot of pod press for two T's.

[Courtney]

That pod has gotten so much press. As soon as she ended her storyline with Emily, she called out Teddy and was like, we gotta keep talking about it.

[Mary Mahoney]

Seriously? Seriously. But I like what Teddi said. She's like, you're used to being disappointed that you will be an asshole to someone, but then you become the bigger asshole.

[Courtney]

Tamara's always the biggest asshole on this show. Now, there was steep competition with Kelly Dodd, but longevity wise, I'm gonna give it to Tamara. She's the biggest asshole on this show always. Also, Vicky, fake cancer. You know, there's a lot of assholes on this show, but I would say that Tamara is the most caustic. In a repeat fashion,

[Mary Mahoney]

Tamara is the villain. And I felt like at the Quiet Woman later on, she basically was saying, so we have to film together. Are you gonna move on or what? Shannon. And Shannon in her turtleneck and that jumper, what did you think she was giving me?

[Courtney]

Like, school teacher. Innocent. What are we wearing here?

[Mary Mahoney]

Such a teacher vibe. I got such a teacher vibe there. Like, that would have been a great outfit for me to wear at school. I would have loved to wear that one day for work, you know?

[Courtney]

Sure, okay.

[Mary Mahoney]

But their makeup was so disingenuous that the Quiet Woman. Did you hear about the drama at the Quiet Woman too?

[Courtney]

Which one?

[Mary Mahoney]

Andy Cohen went to the Quiet Woman with the girls.

[Courtney]

Take me through.

[Mary Mahoney]

Okay. They gave him the bill.

[Courtney]

They gave Andy the bill.

[Mary Mahoney]

Andy paid the bill and tipped, and Shannon apparently was pissed that they got charged for going to the Quiet Woman. And it became this thing. And then it came out later that the Quiet Woman, I guess after he paid the bill and they all left, they, like, came out after and was like, oh, no, no, we're not actually gonna, like, run that. That was mistake in retrospect. But I think, like, Tamara and Shannon were kind of, like, fighting about this because people heard that Shannon was really upset that they had to pay the bill and kind of made a stink about it.

[Courtney]

What do you think about that?

[Mary Mahoney]

I think it's really funny because at the end of the day, it's like, I'm sorry. Andy Cohen's rich. He can afford to Take the girls out. It's not that big of a deal. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure the restaurant is doing well because of Orange county, the Housewives. Like, I mean, clearly I lied about going. Like, it's an iconic spot.

[Courtney]

Your honesty about your lies does not absolve you of lying, Mary. I just want to put it out there.

[Mary Mahoney]

Andy also, he's like, well, no, can you please run that? Because I. I want to tip the person. I didn't leak cash, you know, so I can't see Shannon make it a stink out of that.

[Courtney]

I totally could. And then I'm also wondering, too, though, like, was it said when they made the reservation, like, oh, my God, yes, you're welcome, no charge? Like, was there a conversation before or was it an assumption? Because sometimes with Shannon, I could think something would be an assumption. And I wonder, every time Shannon goes to the Quiet Woman, does she not pay? She's a walking distance.

[Mary Mahoney]

That's my assumption.

[Courtney]

Okay, so Shannon is for free. And then she thought it would be for free, or she was told, oh, that's funny. And at the end of the day, what do you think that Bill was. All the girls were there. They didn't eat.

[Mary Mahoney]

I'm sure it was expensive, but Andy Cohen can afford it. Have you seen his Architectural Digest house in the Hamptons? Like. Like, he's fine. Yeah, I'm not worried about Andy Cohen paying to go to the Quiet Woman.

[Courtney]

Sure, sure. That's pretty funny. I. I did not know that.

[Mary Mahoney]

Okay, what did you think about the Quiet Woman? Vicki being the referee?

[Courtney]

This whole scene you've mentioned, we are not seeing what happened on Ultimate Girls Trip. We haven't seen that yet. So we have all of these episodes as the aftermath to a scene that we're not privy to because it's not August n the end. And so when they keep referring to what's happened, we're like, okay, yeah, it sounds like Tamara was an. And Vicki is now trying to change the memory of the Quiet Woman, which is like, don't try to change it. Something bad should always happen at the Quiet Woman. It's not my plate. I think about Kelly Dodd going up to that window and blowfishing it. I think about the Quiet Woman's not my plate. I think about the fact that they met in the bathroom at some point. There's always drama with the Quiet Woman. It wouldn't be the Quiet Woman if they were quiet.

[Mary Mahoney]

So true. So true.

[Courtney]

You know? And so Vicki's trying to rewrite the history. I also love, too, that there's not another person in this restaurant. It's just the three of them at

[Mary Mahoney]

the table because it's not open for lunch. We've had this problem before.

[Courtney]

I've tried to go. It doesn't open till 5:30.

[Mary Mahoney]

You're right. Yeah.

[Courtney]

So the three of them being there, like, Vicki trying to referee. First off, Tamara comes in and then she sits down. She goes, okay, what do you think if I start with this? You've done bad things. Oh, I've done bad things. And Vicki's like, no, you gotta say you're sorry. She's like, but I'm not sorry. It's like, yeah, you have to be sorry for what you said.

[Mary Mahoney]

Yeah, but that's so you can tell, like, she isn't.

[Courtney]

Oh, she thinks those things about Shannon.

[Mary Mahoney]

Right? And then like, Vicky's bar is so low. She's like, why can they not get back together? It's not like anyone slept with anyone's husbands and they haven't stolen money from each other. I'm like, that.

[Courtney]

That's the bar. Those are the two things. She's like, it's not like anyone hates cancer. Okay. We're okay with these two. But I like though what happened with Vicky mediating. Because Shannon sits down and it's quiet. It is actually. The quiet women.

[Mary Mahoney]

Yes.

[Courtney]

And they're waiting for one to make the first move. And finally Tamara starts off and says, like, you know, the two of us have done a lot to each other. I'd like to move forward. And Shannon's like, like, the two of us have done a lot to each other. She's like, you said I was a drunk. You said I'd never get a man and that I have no money. How do you think that makes me feel? And Tamara's immediate retort is, well, how does it make. And Vicki's like, no, answer the question. And I thought that was smart on Vicki's part.

[Mary Mahoney]

I. I'd agree with that. Did you also notice when Shannon walked in, Tamara, like, looked her up and down and was like, that's a fugly outfit. I did notice that.

[Courtney]

I didn't notice that. But that is silly because she probably is like a turtleneck with a jumper.

[Sponsor Narrator]

It was jarring.

[Mary Mahoney]

I don't know why it was so jarring.

[Courtney]

I think it was the white turtleneck. If it was a black turtleneck, maybe. But it almost like she wanted to come covered up. Like innocent.

[Mary Mahoney]

Right? Well, you couldn't see one piece of skin on her except for her face.

[Courtney]

And that was 75, 000. We know, because she owed it to John Jamson.

[Mary Mahoney]

Tamara says, sorry. She wants to be around her. They want to be in their happy place again. And Shannon does say, I'm willing to move forward. And the Trace amigos are going to get things going. And they walk out all together. And Vicky needs a knee replacement.

[Courtney]

But do you feel like it was like, put a bow on it. Not the one. Yes. That I'm like, there was actually no resolution. Like, we bring up the Emily situation. Taylor's like, I was literally like joking. And then, okay, Shannon can't use that now because, okay, she was joking, joking. And it feels like almost at this point that Shannon is just tired at this lunch. She probably hasn't shot herself up with that grapeseed oil yet from the other week. So it's like she's just tired that she's like, I guess we can move forward, but you know, you can't. You know, and especially as soon as that Ultimate Girls trip episode airs, someone's gonna go live, someone's gonna have one too many teenies and someone's gonna post about it and it's gonna reignite this whole thing again. It's this never ending, ending cycle with them as frenemies.

[Mary Mahoney]

It's so true. I think the part that bothered me the most, it felt forced in, like, well, we have to film this TV show, so we're gonna have to be together for the next few months. So let's put a bow on this and quote, unquote, move forward. But it just felt so disingenuous.

[Courtney]

Yeah. I feel like Tamara is not sorry for what she said.

[Commercial Narrator]

Right.

[Courtney]

She got drunk and said it on camera and like, so she's sorry about, about that being on film, but I don't think she cares. We've seen all these years, you guys are the same people you are 5, 10, 15 years ago on this show. Yes, things have changed. And maybe you become more self aware in certain aspects, but let's be real, to your core, you're all the same. And Shannon will never get past these insults because I think also part of it is that Shannon also feels maybe it is true.

[Mary Mahoney]

Yeah, no, I think that's why it cuts so deep.

[Courtney]

And so saying these things out is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're my friend. You shouldn't be saying these things about me. You know, these are like some of my deepest insecurities and you're using it against me. Now if I'm Shannon too, it would be very hard to move past something that someone has said. So deeply cutting to me.

[Mary Mahoney]

Yes.

[Courtney]

And that I have to get over because she apologized at the Quiet Woman, My favorite place.

[Mary Mahoney]

I would never forgive Tamara for this. This because I think everything she said there was the truth.

[Courtney]

And that's why the only way that we're going to move forward is if Shannon forgives. There's no budging from the other side of, hey, we're just not friends.

[Commercial Narrator]

Right?

[Mary Mahoney]

Right.

[Courtney]

So it's like this pressure on Shannon to move forward. And Shannon, she can't handle that. She knows too, because Vicki's going to keep pushing her. Vicki will keep pushing and pushing and pushing. She's a pusher, Katie. Anyways, I didn't think we could talk about this show forever. And I don't even know if we did talk about this show forever. But everybody, let's all wish Charlie a happy first birthday.

[Mary Mahoney]

Happy Birthday. And of course we will be singing the May God bless you.

[Courtney]

All right, everyone, fabulous weekend. We'll see you next week. Bye. Because you didn't just say, how can

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[Courtney]

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[Mary Mahoney]

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[Monday.com Narrator]

It was amazing.

[Courtney]

Chase Sapphire preferred the card that's preferred for a reason. Cards issued by JP Morgan, Chase bank and a member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply.

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[Courtney]

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