TJG: RHOC S20 E4!

Summary

Two Judgey Girls: RHOC S20 E4! (July 31, 2026)

Hosts: Mary (the Bay) and Courtnee (LA)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Mary and Courtnee take on episode 4 of The Real Housewives of Orange County Season 20, with a heavy dose of judgment, skepticism, and reality TV expertise. The girls dish on the show’s desperate storylines, questionable housewife finances, and the franchise’s struggle to stay entertaining. The pod bounces through recaps of Bravo after-shows, House of Stassi, and various Bravo-universe updates before professionally skewering RHOC’s latest antics, all with their trademark banter and realness.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Bravo After-Show & House of Stassi Recap

[04:30–09:00]

• Mary dives into binge-watching: She watched "The Valley" after-show, "Next Gen" after-show, and "House of Stassi."
• "House of Stassi" is surprisingly compelling, with Mary noting:

  “They break the fourth wall a ton. ... Bo is a shattered housewife at this point. ... They are holding nothing back.” (Mary, 04:52)

• Stassi and Beau’s power dynamics highlighted; Stassi wants to be the Kris Jenner of her family, paying Beau to stay home (“She’s the breadwinner, he deals with all the kids stuff,” Mary, 07:38).
• The Valley’s drama: Jesse Lawley’s personal struggles, Danny’s indignant stance (“If Janet wants to apologize to me... I would be accepting of that since he is a Christian man,” Mary, 06:11).
• Sheena Shay’s reality TV troubles: shut out of major projects, possibly headed to shows like Special Forces or House of Villains (“Please don’t go the marriage boot camp route, Sheena...” Courtnee, 10:52).

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2. Pop Culture & Bravo Universe Updates

[13:19–16:08]

• Sierra’s successful celebrity cameo on "Jimmy Fallon" (“She just looked so amazing in the leather get up... I was looking disrespectfully, I’ll tell you that,” Courtnee, 14:00).
• Spotted: Kyle’s tongue-in-cheek collaboration with Yahoo, “He is having the best time,” Courtnee, 15:16.

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3. RHOC S20 E4: The Gimmick of It All

[22:39–61:20]

a) Storylines and Stunts

• Hosts mock the series’ desperate narratives:
  • “Our storylines are Dior dildos, social media, and what type of friend you are.” (Courtnee, 23:17)
  • “It’s so bad. And the gimmicky boxes, it’s just really, really, really hard to watch.” (Mary, 23:28)
• Dior Bag Drama: Is the gifted bag real, a fake, or a regift?
  • “It’s obviously like a power flex move. It would be SO bold to give someone a fake.” (Mary, 26:33)
  • “She wants you to talk about it whether she’s rich or not.” (Courtnee, 27:03)
• Carmela’s finances, rental home, and developer story questioned:
  • “You pay $35,000 a month for this house ... is it because you’re only there for three months to film?” (Mary, 24:15)
  • “She tried to tell us she’s made almost a hundred million dollars in 10 years ... something is strange with the finances.” (Courtnee, 24:37)
• Social media “storylines” derided:
  • “When I had to watch them with pantyhose over their head blowing out a candle ... it was so cringe.” (Mary, 28:07)

b) Working Out as Filler Content

• “The OC is Queens of the fitness class. I don’t want to see any of them work out.” (Courtnee, 28:55)
• Sneaky sponsor blurring: “They blurred out Heather’s aloe top ... very suspicious.” (Mary, 29:54)
• Hosts reminisce about former friend-of cast member Fernanda, “What a throwback.” (Mary, 29:16)

c) Housewife Dynamics & Performative Drama

• Jen is overwhelmingly criticized:
  • “Jen, you are a bone collector, but you have no brain. It is the Wizard of Oz backwards here.” (Courtnee, 30:27)
  • “I’ve decided, like, I don’t like Jen. ... This stupid Grayson storyline. ... I didn’t realize he actually worked at In N Out.” (Mary, 30:45)
  • “She is not smart.” (Mary, 57:45)
• Tamara goes after Heather for not posting a TikTok:
  • “Heather thinks every time she films this show that she is doing all of them a favor.” (Courtnee, 32:52)
  • “It is Tamara’s mission to make sure Heather Debrow is exposed for being fake. She is trying to find every single way.” (Mary, 34:32)
• Game night: “What’s in the Box?” is ridiculed for being production-generated and petty.
  • “They have to play this game so they talk shit to each other’s face ... it’s supposed to be anonymous, but then immediately they’re owning what they wrote.” (Courtnee, 54:33)
  • Tamra’s strategy: “She’s going to use all of this against you later in the season.” (Courtnee, 55:19)
  • “She wrote the playbook. She wrote the rule.” (Mary, 55:51)

d) Vicki Gumbelson Deep Dive

• Vicki’s lonely storyline and family relationships:
  • “I think Vicki isn’t playing into the cameras. She just says whatever is on her mind and it’s making her look horrible. But, like, I love it.” (Mary, 41:13)
  • “She’s saying, like, her life is lonely. She doesn’t see her kids.” (Courtnee, 41:56)
• Rumors around Vicki’s relationship and “the ring”:
  • “Do you think Vicki told the group last week he has a ring because it makes herself feel better?” (Mary, 49:44)
  • “I think she just wants the ring. I think that ring is a symbol for her, but she doesn’t actually have to go through with it.” (Courtnee, 50:39)
• Mary strongly objects to being compared to Vicki:
  • “Don’t ever compare me to Vicki Gumbelson. Are you serious? That is a major, major disk.” (Mary, 40:55)

e) Housewives Social Media, Uniforms & Petty Details

• Emily’s “uniform” (black flares, chambray top) noted with amusement (Courtnee, 56:34).
• Gina’s social media hustle approved:
  • “She totally leans in... she’s promoting her business, and she’s getting money. Good for you.” (Mary, 27:42)
• General consensus: forced games and dramas are dragging the show down, but the nostalgia of the “Trace Amigas” still carries emotional weight.
  • “I want the Trace Amigas to get back together. It’s so nostalgic.” (Courtnee, 60:15)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On this season's content:

  "Our storylines are Dior dildos, social media, and what type of friend you are."
  — Courtnee (23:17)

• On Tamara’s gameplay:

  "She’s going to use all of this against you later in the season."
  — Courtnee (55:19)

• On Vicki’s authenticity:

  "I think Vicki isn’t playing into the cameras. She just says whatever is on her mind and it’s making her look horrible. But, like, I love it, you know, it’s so fascinating to watch."
  — Mary (41:13)

• On forced drama:

  "Why do we have to see them working out? Again, I do not care to see them work out."
  — Courtnee (30:08)

• On Mary being compared to Vicki Gumbelson:

  "Don’t ever compare me to Vicki Gumbelson. Are you serious? That is a major, major disk."
  — Mary (40:55)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Bravo Universe & House of Stassi discussion: [04:30–09:00]
• Pop culture and Bravo star sightings: [13:19–16:08]
• RHOC episode discussion truly begins: [22:39]
• Dior clutch discussion: [23:28–26:52]
• Filler scenes & social media stunts: [27:42–29:16]
• Workout classes & sponsor blurring: [28:55–30:13]
• Jen criticism and family storyline: [30:27–32:16]
• Tamra vs. Heather TikTok debate: [32:33–34:32]
• Production-driven games (“What’s in the Box?”): [54:02–55:19]
• Vicki’s lonely storyline & family: [41:45–43:06]
• Trace Amigas nostalgia and franchise introspection: [60:15–61:20]

---

Overall Tone & Takeaways

Mary and Courtnee keep their signature snarky, skeptical tone, peppered with Bravo in-jokes and genuine fondness for nostalgia moments. They’re tough on the current state of RHOC, calling out lazy or forced production tricks and the lack of authentic storylines. Their dynamic—Courtnee’s blunt hot takes and Mary’s keen, suspicious analysis—offers both entertainment and genuine critique, making this episode a must-listen for both Bravo superfans and reality TV skeptics.

Final Thought:
Despite the "dumpster diving" for storylines, the girls remain committed to watching—if only to witness whether the Trace Amigas can recapture their old glory.

Transcript

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[Mary]

Welcome back to two Judgy Girls. This is Mary from the Bay.

[Courtnee]

It's Courtnee from la. And we did it, you guys. We made it to the end of the week.

[Mary]

We did it.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Sometimes it feels daunting of like the week starts, you're like, shit, how do I get to the end?

[Mary]

Totally. Totally. Well, I feel like I had a lot of extra time yesterday and I was able to watch the Valley after show, Next Gen after show and two House of Saucies and oh my God, you went deep.

[Courtnee]

I wasn't able to watch any of those. So fill me in on everything, please.

[Mary]

Okay. House of Stassi I loved. I am shocked how much I liked it. They break the fourth wall a ton. Bo is a shattered housewife at this point. They really let you into their relationship. They are holding nothing back. Bo's sister from Italy is living with them. Stasi sister is also living with them. We got Katie Maloney in the second epis. I watched a little bit of the third. That's the Ariana cameo. There's like a ton of stuff in it. I really, really liked it and I can't wait for you to watch it. I think you'll like it as well.

[Courtnee]

All right, tell me about the after shows.

[Mary]

Nothing groundbreaking. Gia said she thinks that her and Christian will move in together soon. I'm not buying.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Too you guys. 20s and it's okay.

[Courtnee]

It's okay, right?

[Mary]

I feel like everyone just like loves Charlie. He literally could get away with murder. I mean, he got away with kidnapping. It's like truly shocking. And then the Valley, it's the same old song. Of Dan. Danny's like, yeah, if Janet wants to apologize to me, then I would be accepting of that since he is a Christian man.

[Courtnee]

Is that really what he says? I'm assuming it's referring to the cup heard round the world.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Doink.

[Mary]

Yeah. And then Jesse Lawley did cry, talking about Lacy.

[Courtnee]

Good tears or bad tears?

[Mary]

I think he realizes Isabella's probably gonna have to go to school in la. It's an interesting situation because it's like, there's kind of no path forward with him and Lacey in a lot of ways, especially if he wants to get married. So he was pretty sensitive. He asked for more hair and makeup during filming.

[Courtnee]

Oh, interesting about that because they're obviously, they're still together, but you said it on the pod like, Lacy likes their setup. Like, she's fine with it. I don't know why he feels the need to keep pushing, pushing, pushing, unless it's because of the money.

[Mary]

Right. They talk about too how, like, Lacy and Jesse have broke up multiple times.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Really?

[Courtnee]

Okay, I gotta watch it.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

You're selling me on this after show. The Valley is one of the most

[Courtnee]

infuriating shows that I can't quit.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

I get so annoyed at everyone, and I have so many questions, and yet

[Courtnee]

it's like a human experiment case study where I'm watching like, okay, well, if we're talking about no path forward, but they break up, but they're back together and what's going on?

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

I'm like, let's explore that in season four.

[Pace Case]

Right.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Front row seat for me.

[Brooke Devard]

Right.

[Mary]

And that to be watching the Stassi show at the same time, because she was essentially supposed to be on the Valley.

[Courtnee]

Yeah.

[Mary]

And they address her cancellation, and her whole thing is like, I want to be Kris Jenner. I want to set everyone up in my. To be successful. And she's like, the matriarch. And her and Beau are super struggling because she, at one point, spoiler alert. Beau wants to go back to work to do the casting thing. And she's like, well, I'll just pay you the amount of money you'll do for casting, and I want you to stay home because she's the breadwinner, and he deals with all the kids stuff. And so she's like, I need someone to deal with that. They also have a nanny as well, but she needs him to deal with, like, the home stuff. So it was pretty fascinating.

[Courtnee]

Feels like an interesting power imbalance and.

[Mary]

Yep. Big time.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And am I nosy?

[Courtnee]

No, I'm. I'm curious.

[Mary]

Yeah. And then it was very Funny too, because she has lunch with Jesse from Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.

[Courtnee]

I forget that she hosted the reunions.

[Mary]

Well, it's all, you know, she's under the Disney family, Hulu, that type of thing. We see her go to Vegas and do the unwell stuff. Alex Cooper makes an appearance.

[Courtnee]

That Hulu verse.

[Mary]

There's so much stuff in it.

[Courtnee]

Maybe we should watch it all and then we should do a full recap of this season because you are tying me in. Like, I'm interested. I want to watch this. So let's do like a recap at some point once we have the time to watch all the. The full season.

[Mary]

Okay, agreed. I. I think I'm gonna, like, binge it this weekend. I loved it. I loved it.

[Courtnee]

I'll do my best to get on your page. Yeah, okay, but you mentioned Secret Lives. But then also there's this Sheena connection now too. Poor Shana Shay, you guys. She can't get on House of Stassi or the Valley. I saw she's doing a drag brunch in Chicago while the rest of them have a show.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Sad.

[Mary]

This is what Jesse was saying at the lunch on the show that Sheena reached out to her to get on Secret Lives.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

They do let you know you really

[Courtnee]

don't have to be Mormon to be on the show.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And I guess for her, she doesn't

[Courtnee]

have to be in Utah. I'm surprised she didn't push for the LA show.

[Mary]

I'm sure she did.

[Courtnee]

Oh, you're right.

[Mary]

Yeah. Yeah. There was a lot of information in just the first two episodes, and I was hooked.

[Courtnee]

Going back to Sheena, do you think she regrets writing her book? I feel like that book caused her more problems, then solved them for her because she threw production under the bus through Vanderpump, which I assume is probably similar to the Valley. So that left, like, a bad taste over there. She grabs onto friends. She's like a thanos of collecting friends and then disposes of them. Lala got the Valley. She did it. She exposed this affair. For what? All it does is make us not like Brock, even more so than we already did. She's really fractured all of these friendships and relationships, and that book didn't really do anything. At the end, she tells us I

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

will be on reality TV forever. And I'm like, when does it start again?

[Mary]

Though I do think she will come back in some capacity. I don't know where, but I think she will soon.

[Courtnee]

Please don't go the marriage boot camp route. Sheena, you gotta hold out for something better. I'm still wanting season four of the Valley, but I do worry.

[Mary]

Is Special Forces next for her? I wonder if she's been approached, actually, her and Brock going together, I could see that.

[Courtnee]

Could she do House of Villains is Traitors? Her intro back into the world? It's tough with those relationships that she burned.

[Mary]

I think Traders is probably, like, the most coveted show to be on right now. They wouldn't even entertain the idea of putting her on it.

[Courtnee]

They would let her think they're entertaining.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Oh, yeah. We'll circle back.

[Courtnee]

We'll circle back, and the circle is just round and round and round it goes.

[Mary]

I'm still disappointed that it's civilians.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Don't worry. You're gonna like it. And then you're gonna get your celeb version.

[Courtnee]

Don't worry.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

It's coming. Just think of it as we get

[Courtnee]

two seasons of Traitors.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Courtnee]

I'm trying to silver line it for you.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Pace Case]

Okay.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Pace Case]

Okay.

[Courtnee]

So in the Valley reunion preview, there's this line where Danny says, you know, Seth Rogen commented saying he hasn't seen this dark side of Danny. And Lala replies, well, if Seth Rogen said it and Seth Rogen commented and he said, just for the record, I think his behavior is abhorrent.

[Mary]

Yeah, I don't know anyone that can defend that. Even your Ride or die. Kristen Doty is walking that back.

[Courtnee]

Well, Krosten needs the audience on her side, and I think that's why I want the Bookos to return is not having them return gives them such an out and gives everyone who's backed them an out. We need to see the fallout of everything and see what happens with having to turn on each other.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

It's just.

[Courtnee]

Should be called the Valley. Lord of the Flies. Who's piggy, though? Is it Danny? I don't.

[Mary]

I don't. My mind is going. If they actually did stay, would Nia continue to protect him or would she start turning on him?

[Courtnee]

No.

[Mary]

You don't think.

[Courtnee]

Jack said it wasn't in their lexicon either, him and Britney, but I actually believe for Danny and Nia that divorce is not an option.

[Mary]

I don't know. I think these reality shows can break up marriages.

[Courtnee]

Sure. I don't see that happening. I see them having a united front. I don't see them breaking up. Okay. But let's talk about a really big, exciting kind of surprise that happened on Jimmy Fallon last night. Shaboozi was performing, and our girl Sierra had a cameo as she's in the music video. Obviously, and he brought her on stage for his performance. And she looked insane.

[Mary]

I have not seen this yet. Okay. Oh, I was. Sorry. I was busy watching the Valley after show Next Gen NYC in two episodes.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

We gotta divide a conquer here.

[Mary]

I haven't hit the Internet.

[Courtnee]

She just looks so amazing in the leather get up. It's similar to what she wore in the video. But I was looking disrespectfully, I'll tell you that.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

She looked good. And I just thought, what a perfect

[Courtnee]

way that was Wednesday night.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

For some reason in my head, they

[Courtnee]

now go to the Hamptons on Thursdays for no reason. There's been no indication, no nothing.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Just in my mind, they go to

[Courtnee]

the Hamptons on Thursday. So she is going into this weekend on cloud nine.

[Mary]

Yeah. She's on a high. I did notice Sierra has a Celsius commercial. And she was on the commercial during a peacock thing. I was like, get it, honey? It's lemon cello. I've never tried those, have you?

[Courtnee]

I have not. But I wonder if you could put it with the lover boy. Limoncello and a Celsius lemon cello. And I think I see a collab happening. But another collab that Kyle did today too was that he has one with Yahoo where he plays a weatherman. I know you haven't seen it again because it was on the Internet, not tv. He's wearing these jorts and he's being a weatherman, but it's really talking about the perfect weather to party. If it's raining, you can party. If it's sunny, you can party. But in one scene, he has to reach up high and they zoom in on his tippies.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Oh, and I just love when they play into it because there is this

[Courtnee]

level of you can't take yourself too seriously. Have fun with it. He is having the best time.

[Mary]

Yeah. Did he look good in the jorts?

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

It's a ridiculous outfit, but he looks good.

[Courtnee]

He's got this flow in his hair, and it's like this single flow happening right now. Okay. He's rocking it.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And then also. Wait, Mary, you also didn't see this?

[Courtnee]

There's photographs of him recording a lunch scene with a brunette. That's not Sally. Could it be a date? Is it just another cast member? Is Sally freaking out?

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Is she booking a flight back to New York right now?

[Mary]

I definitely think he's playing the field.

[Courtnee]

Oh, I think he's playing the football field. I think he's playing the baseball field. I think he's playing any field he can find. If there's Grass on the field. Play ball, baby.

[Mary]

Good for him. Good for him.

[Courtnee]

I agree. Okay, should we take a break and come back with Orange County?

[Mary]

Sounds good.

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[Mary]

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[Mary]

I gotta do spaghetti once a week in taco night here.

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[Acast Announcer]

Acast Powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.

[Brooke Devard]

Hello, hello, it's Brooke Devard from Naked Beauty. Join me each week for unfiltered discussion about beauty trends, self care, journeys, wellness tips, and the products we absolutely love and cannot get enough of. If you are a skincare obsessive and you spend 20 plus minutes on your skincare routine, this podcast is for you. Or if you're a newbie at the beginning of your skincare journey, you'll love this podcast as well. Because we go so much deeper than beauty. I talk to incredible and inspiring people from across industries about their relationship with beauty. You'll also hear from skincare experts. We break down lots of myths in the beauty industry. If this sounds like your thing, search for naked beauty on your podcast app and listen along. I hope you'll join us.

[Courtnee]

Honestly, you guys, I'm a little flabbergasted, a little speechless, a little not sure what we're doing here with this show.

[Mary]

It's bad. It's bad. I will say, last week we made a mistake. We never talked about Carmela giving Emily the bag with the dildo.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Well, because also, I didn't think it

[Courtnee]

was like that crazy to forget that small of a detail and her parenting. Because, like, Jen's the worst parent. But I'm also like, why is your daughter getting a tan, eyelashes, and not going to school? That's a whole other thing.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

But it was like when we forgot

[Courtnee]

it, I was like, whatever.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And then to see that it's becoming

[Courtnee]

a storyline, I'm like, this is so embarrassing for them. Our storylines are Dior dildos, social media, and what type of friend you are.

[Mary]

It's so bad. And the gimmicky boxes, it's just really, really, really, really hard to watch. But going back to the Dior bag, because, yes. Would I love a stranger to give me a Dior bag? Absolutely. Would I happily accept it? Absolutely. But then my mind started racing and I'm like, okay, one, Is it a fake?

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

I was thinking that too. Is it a fake?

[Courtnee]

A fiore?

[Pace Case]

2.

[Mary]

A re gift. Did she get it? It was like, I'll never wear it. I'm just gonna give it away. Was it that, or is she just trying to impress the group? Also very curious about her financials, because obviously all the women are trying to poke holes in her developer story. But I'm like, you pay $35,000 a month for this house. And then I'm like, okay, is it because you're only there for three months to film?

[Sponsor Voice (Bare Face / Butcherbox)]

Is that why you're doing it?

[Mary]

So you're going to pay over $400,000 to live in this house for a year? That just does not compute at all.

[Courtnee]

I completely agree. And also, not to downplay her achievements, but she tried to tell us that she's made almost a hundred million dollars in 10 years. So $10 million a year? I'm rounding up to a hundred million. You could say almost that. It could be 20 million.

[Mary]

But no, she's saying, I've sold a hundred million in real estate. Sorry, 10 years.

[Courtnee]

She say, yeah, yeah, yeah, 100 million. That's 10 million a year. Your commission is 3%, usually when you're a real estate agent.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

So that doesn't even make sense of

[Courtnee]

how you're doing it. And if you're selling these homes, 10 million, again, that is a lot. I also feel like she'd maybe rounding up 55 million. You know, it's almost 100 million. We don't know.

[Sponsor Voice (Bare Face / Butcherbox)]

We are big rounder uppers ourselves.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

If you're 0.5 and over, it's the next number.

[Courtnee]

Okay, so 55. Maybe it's a hundred.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

So then I'm thinking, okay, well, that's like 10 million.

[Courtnee]

So that's what, maybe two or three homes? Four homes. Something is strange with the finances.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

The Dior purse is interesting because I

[Courtnee]

do think it's supposed to be as a flex. And here's one thing I just want to recommend to Carmela. And actually, in her interviews, it looks like she has taken it down a notch. Her hair and her eyebrows are too dark. It's too drastic of a color. It's not soft on her. And I think it actually ages her. And I think if she went to maybe more of a darker brown and then also put some dimension, some like, lighter, warmer pieces in it, I think it would make her look 10, 15 years younger. She's really pretty. But these brows and this hair color are too dark.

[Mary]

You're going to have a lot of comments about Stasi's sister's hair.

[Courtnee]

Oh, no. What color is it?

[Mary]

It's like a bright Red.

[Courtnee]

Oh, okay.

[Mary]

No, it doesn't look right. It doesn't look right.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Okay. Okay. I'll report back.

[Courtnee]

So what is your thought on the Dior clutch, then? You gave a couple of reasons of why. What do you think she's doing with it?

[Mary]

It's obviously like a power flex move. It would be so bold to give someone a fake. That would definitely catch up with you. And I'm sure Emily. I mean, she's a lawyer. She's a detective. She is inspecting. She probably went in to return it to figure out what was the price. Did she actually buy it from Dior? All those things? I'm guessing it's a regift.

[Courtnee]

That's embarrassing to do. Emily, if that's what you're doing, don't you have to be at the gym?

[Mary]

I. I'm going with regift. What do you think?

[Courtnee]

I like the re gift idea. I do think it's a bold thing. I also think it's strange that they're making it a storyline because she kind of wants you to talk about that, right? She gave you the Dior back to either flex that she has money. She wants you to talk about it whether she's rich or not. So if I were Emily, I feel like I wouldn't give her any sort of. But then I think we're literally talking about social media, so I guess we're gonna search for a storyline anywhere we can. Because you know what? They need to shoot their tiktoks. Shannon is leaving money on the table, and Heather's not wrong, but the fact that this is a storyline, I'm like, we got bloggers. We got podcasts. We got TikTok.

[Mary]

I will say I like watching Gina's social media. She totally leans in. I think it's fun. Good for her. She's promoting her business, and she's getting money. Like, good for you. But when I had to watch them with pantyhose over their head blowing out a candle. Was it on top of a watermelon? Why was it a watermelon? How did the watermelon come in?

[Courtnee]

That was probably the only thing they had. They didn't have a cake.

[Mary]

It is just like, oh, it was so cringe.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

It was cringe because you could see

[Courtnee]

that they were acting for the OC See cameras and, like, not the TikTok. You know, like, they were being quirky, funny.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And I do find those things silly,

[Courtnee]

but I don't know that we should be seeing the behind the scenes of the behind the scenes.

[Mary]

It was just kind of embarrassing. And I like that they're going over to each other's houses and not all these, like, set. Thank God we got a flash of this cowboy sex exercise. And I'm like, I am so glad that was just a flash. I am so glad we did not have to watch that. It is just like, they're like, dumpster diving.

[Courtnee]

The OC Is queens of the fitness class. I don't want to see any of them work out. I mean, we see Fernanda blast from the past there. Fernanda, where I was like, poor Fernanda. She was kind of the first friend of. Of the Real Housewife franchises. And then it never just worked out. And was that the season with the evil eye? And Gretchen, too?

[Mary]

I'm not sure. But I recognized her, like, right away. I was like, oh, my gosh, what a throwback.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

I was like, are you guys gonna

[Courtnee]

sprinkle in all these randoms for us throughout the season? I do like that. I do like that. I do, too.

[Mary]

I do too.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

But.

[Courtnee]

But they have to do another workout class. I'm like, I don't need to see them working out. I get it. Everyone looks good.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And then I also noticed that they

[Courtnee]

blurred out Heather's aloe top. Now, every season, Tamara's been rocking aloe. Emily rocks aloe. The whole cast rocks aloe. Tamara's wearing the aloe tennis shoes to this class. And some reason, because I have this top in multiple colors, they've blurred out the aloe on her chest.

[Mary]

That's very suspicious.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Isn't that weird?

[Courtnee]

Do you feel like Heather's like, I don't want this sponsorship only show Louis

[Mary]

Vuitton or Gucci only designer show my

[Courtnee]

rubber Louis Vuitton boots for the whale watching. Okay.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

But I'm like, why do we have

[Courtnee]

to see them working out Again? I do not care to see them work out.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

We get it.

[Lifelock Ad Voice]

It.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

We're never even going over to Jen's. Jen, do you still have the studio? This is the perfect thing for you. You want people to work out, use your studio.

[Mary]

So she probably doesn't, I'm guessing.

[Courtnee]

Let's talk Jen, though, and this conversation. Jen, you are a bone collector, but you have no brain. It is the wizard of Oz backwards here. Okay? She is going to Oz to look for a brain.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

It's a lot because she's trying to start shit.

[Courtnee]

And Heather's like, like, no, I have

[Mary]

decided, like, I don't like Jen. I don't want to know anything about her. This stupid Grayson storyline. I didn't realize he actually Worked at In N Out.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Remember I said. I was like, isn't his job at In N Out?

[Michaels Ad Voice]

No.

[Mary]

And they said it, but I thought they were being cheeky almost. I didn't realize he actually worked there.

[Courtnee]

Okay, this is gonna sound really bad too, but I think it's just because I don't like her either. But my mom. If I had my first day at In N Out, my mom would be there in line ordering a burger, a

[Mary]

thousand and ten percent. My family would be as well. And then they'd expect me to bring stuff home for them.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Totally. She's like, wait, so are you, like, in the drive through or like, how can I see you? And I just. In my mind, for some reason, I

[Courtnee]

thought, God, my mom would know every

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

position that I am in. She'd be like, I see your fry cutting right now. Like, how the hell do you know that,

[Dr. Horton Ad Voice]

Jen?

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

I feel like you really don't know anything.

[Courtnee]

And then she's like, and I see you've been driving slower.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

I follow you on Life360. I'm like, oh, yeah. And you're able to clock his mph there.

[Mary]

So curious about that. I was like, wow, they've really come a long way with technology. I thought that was just like, find my.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Yeah, you think?

[Courtnee]

Jen has her phone up and she's

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

like, oh, it looks like 55. Oh, he's in a school zone. He's gone to 35. Like, shut up, Jen. And stop trying to create drama where there isn't. You are obsessed with Heather. You are. Because you know that you can't really go after Tamara because you lost, so you have to go after one of the other big dogs because that's how

[Courtnee]

you get a storyline. It's not working, though.

[Mary]

And I'm like, honestly not even following it. And I guess it's just because I don't like her and I don't care about her. So let's move on and talk about this Tamara Heather TikTok situation. Because I kind of understand understood what Tamara was saying.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Oh, I did.

[Mary]

She's like, okay, you're really into the Tiktoks and stuff. And we made a TikTok at Bravicon, but then you didn't post it, so are you embarrassed to be seen with me? It feels like you're just being fake. And she is.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Of course she is. Heather thinks every time she films this

[Courtnee]

show that she is doing all of them a favor.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

You guys want.

[Courtnee]

Well, that's what I bring to this show. I don't actually like anybody on this show enough to be friends with them.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

But I'm film friends.

[Mary]

Yes, completely.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And she didn't post Tamara because everybody

[Courtnee]

was mad at Tamara last year. She's not going to take any of that brunt of it. Even though gives her engagement and ups her numbers. She doesn't want negativity.

[Mary]

It's so true. She really cares about her public image and she wants to control everything. I would be so curious. Someone that was on her staff, like an assistant. Obviously they have NDAs, but she protects everything. She kind of is a Kris Jenner in a way.

[Magnus Archives Promo]

Wow.

[Mary]

She's trying to get Nikki on reality tv, which I'm still kind of shocked by.

[Courtnee]

Shocked by what?

[Mary]

That she wants him on reality tv.

[Courtnee]

Oh, I think he wants it. Terry wants it. And so I think she's like, if you're gonna go a hundred, like we're going 100% if this is the path you want to take. Because I think she wants him to take like the million dollar listing route if he does next gen la. I feel like she wants him to be shown as a businessman and the fray of the drama. But look how great he is and he could be like the Josh Altman of next gen la.

[Mary]

I wonder if he actually even sells real estate. I guess we'll have to see.

[Courtnee]

We will have to see.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

But then Heather says, okay, Tamara, let's shoot a TikTok.

[Courtnee]

And she goes, no.

[Mary]

So whose side are you on with this fight once?

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

I think it's so silly.

[Mary]

It's so silly.

[Courtnee]

They are just talking it up for

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

a storyline because again, they don't have anything.

[Mary]

I will say I think it is Tamara's mission to make sure Heather debrow is exposed for being fake. She is trying to find every single way. And let's take a break because I want to talk about it at the box with the boxes.

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[Acast Announcer]

acast powers the World's Best Podcasts here's the show that we recommend.

[Pace Case]

Hi, I'm Pace Case.

[Courtnee]

And I'm Bachelor Clues.

[Pace Case]

We host Game of Roses, the world's best reality TV podcast. We're covering every show in reality TV at the highest level possible. We analyze the Bachelor, Love is Blind, Perfect Match, Vanderpump, and anything else you find yourself watching with wine and popcorn.

[Courtnee]

We break down errors, highlight plays, MVPs, and all the competitive elements that make real reality TV a sport.

[Aura Ad Voice]

And we interview superstar players like bachelorette

[Dr. Horton Ad Voice]

Kaitlyn Bristow and big Brother champion Taylor Hale.

[Pace Case]

If you want to know so much about reality TV, you can turn any casual conversation into a PhD level dissertation. You definitely want to check out Game of Roses.

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[Mary]

I did feel like at one moment when we were watching those stupid boxes that Tamara was just sitting back and

[Courtnee]

was like it worked again, just like my master plan. And you all fell right into my box. Why did they have to decorate the boxes?

[Mary]

I did not want to see any of this. Why can't we just have, like, natural conversations?

[Courtnee]

Why are we throwing Vicki a Puerto Vallarta party? Because she can't travel there.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

It's so embarrassing, what we're trying to do.

[Courtnee]

Just have a party.

[Mary]

Vicky is making herself look so bad this season, and she's doing it all on her own. Let's talk about her and Mike. Do they only go to Mexican restaurants too?

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

She probably was like, well, Mike's living

[Courtnee]

in Spain, so I'm gonna take him to a Mexican restaurant.

[Mary]

You're so right.

[Sponsor Voice (Bare Face / Butcherbox)]

You're so right.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Right, Michael, is this what you eat in Spain? Yes.

[Courtnee]

Oh, God. I can't believe Mike is 40, because we are also 40, and we're not that old.

[Mary]

I also thought it was interesting that he's like, well, I haven't seen Brianna in eight years. And then Vicki says, well, they FaceTime all the time in her confessional. I'm like, I don't think they talk. That's why they haven't seen each other in eight years. So I'm like, what's the bad blood there?

[Courtnee]

I think it's Rihanna's husband.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Courtnee]

Ryan is the lifestyle that they've chosen.

[Mary]

Ryan. I follow her, the Culbertsons. She sells all these essential oils. She is really big into getting out the toxicity in your home.

[Courtnee]

She's still super keto.

[Mary]

They live in Oklahoma. She's really close with Dawn. I will say I have appreciated Vicki, like, owning. I ruined a really good thing with Dawn. I thought the grass was that. Yeah.

[Courtnee]

You were hoping that we were gonna get some dawn recognition. And without him being there, which I know you really wanted. I feel like you're getting your fix. And then, Mary, you're not gonna like this.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

What?

[Courtnee]

Do you like Vicki so much? Because sometimes you see yourself in her of wanting to know the truth. Because when she started talking about Carmela and said, oh, yeah, you mean when she rents up here? Because she doesn't actually live here.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

That's one of your biggest hates of

[Courtnee]

these shows, is fake living situations. And I was like, is this why you can separate the art from the artists? Because you can see Vicki and you and you and Vicki a little bit.

[Mary]

Don't ever compare me to Vicki Gumbelson. Are you serious? That is a major, major disk.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Okay, Remember when people are like, oh, wow, Courtney and Mary. You guys look like Teresa and Vicki. It's like, what's what? The what? Blocked?

[Mary]

No, I will say, I think Vicki isn't playing into the cameras. She just says whatever is on her mind and it's making her look horrible. But, like, I love it, you know, it's so fascinating to watch. I feel like since she's been gone, the game has changed so much, and she doesn't know the new rules, and I think she doesn't even want to play with the new rules. She's going to be her authentic self, and she doesn't even realize how bad it makes her look. So please never compare me to Vicki

[Courtnee]

in that one instant. I just thought that you could relate. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. This Mike scene, though, I thought with

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Vicki, to see it kind of made

[Mary]

me feel sad for her.

[Courtnee]

She's saying, like, her life is lonely. She doesn't see her kids.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And then I thought, so he lives in Spain.

[Courtnee]

He runs the life insurance part of your business. What are his hours?

[Mary]

I mean, he makes them up.

[Courtnee]

Yeah, because Spain's like nine hours ahead of Orange county, so I just wonder.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And then she's like, but our relationship is better.

[Courtnee]

I'm like, okay, so I like the fact that you said, come work at my company and I'll pay you so that our relationship can be better.

[Sponsor Voice (Bare Face / Butcherbox)]

Right.

[Courtnee]

And he's like, cool things. I'm going to be doing that abroad.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And then when she retires, I assume

[Courtnee]

she will be giving Coto insurance to Mike. Will he be moving back?

[Mary]

I don't think he needs to. I think he is the type of person, like, I know he lived in San Diego for some time. Then I think he might have been in New York. He seems like someone that just kind of, like, lives different places for a short period of time. Like, he'll make it back to California. I don't think he wants to be close enough to his mom to have Sunday dinners.

[Courtnee]

So sad. When we watch Liam and Sunday Dinners on Next Gen. And then Vicki says she's craving that so much and sad.

[Mary]

Yeah, she just needs a cigarette. But she doesn't smoke.

[Courtnee]

Emily wasn't wrong when she said Vicki is a Debbie Downer. I'm like,

[Acast Announcer]

totally.

[Courtnee]

Every time Vicki comes, she is an eeyore.

[Michaels Ad Voice]

She.

[Mary]

She can. I lost my tail. Her knee really hurts.

[Courtnee]

You guys stop wearing the heels.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

I know, I know. And then I just think, wow, Vicki,

[Courtnee]

you put yourself in a wheelchair for less. Remember when we were in Iceland and Kelly gave her a Xanax and an Adderall and then they put a sheet over her head? And she was Michael Jackson. And then they made her a casserole from the hotel when she got back because she thought she was gonna die.

[Mary]

I do, I do. And literally she had a self induced panic attack from Adderall. Thought she was having a heart attack because she took like one pill. Hill.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

It's just. I mean, some of these shows could

[Courtnee]

never, could never, could never.

[Mary]

Okay, then we go whale watching.

[Sponsor Voice (Bare Face / Butcherbox)]

I got excited. I was like, oh, kind of the OG Girls.

[Mary]

It's Tamara, Vicky, Heather, Shannon.

[Courtnee]

What?

[Mary]

What are we doing? It's so boring.

[Courtnee]

What are we doing?

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

I don't believe we really saw these whales. Okay.

[Mary]

Oh, you don't?

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

I think maybe we saw a dolphin.

[Courtnee]

Maybe we saw slight whale. But I think those extra shots, that's.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

I think those were spliced in. Oh, my God.

[Mary]

I literally wrote, this is pretty magical. I was like, this is gorgeous. I have to do this.

[Courtnee]

You could have a full day of whale watching the Quiet Woman. Wait, by the way, someone said the Quiet Woman bill that Andy paid $540.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

I know, it's.

[Courtnee]

And it's really making the rounds right now about how bad Shannon is. Tamara is, because she's throwing the Port of Aarda party. She needs all the decorations, and Shannon has decorations. And Shannon's giving an olive branch, but not too much. But she's gonna come over and they're gonna together decorate the house for Vicki. Okay.

[Mary]

Shannon walking up with her tub and

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

is like, weak ankles.

[Mary]

I did like this gesture, though. I think Shannon is making an effort. She texts her, hey, can I help you set up? Think they are on the right track. But then the box kind of fucked it up.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

I just don't know why we need to do these.

[Courtnee]

Who do you trust the least? We're always doing these stupid games of

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

like, I'm gonna write you something, and

[Courtnee]

it's anonymous, and as soon as you

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

read it out, I'm gonna claim it.

[Mary]

It's so gimmicky. They have to stop.

[Courtnee]

They have to stop. We don't need the gimmick. But Vicki also on this whale watching, she is like, I don't like Carmela. She gets naked for money. I don't like her. And I. It took me back to the sushi girl.

[Mary]

Yes, yes. Took me back.

[Courtnee]

And I thought, oh, here's Vicki again.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Because Vicki is just so old school

[Courtnee]

traditional, even though she has not lived

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

an old school, traditional life.

[Mary]

I know, I know. You're so right.

[Courtnee]

And I thought when I watched this and it was like the four OGs, I was like, I feel like it was the three of them, and they're like, you guys, we gotta invite Heather because she's gonna freak out that she wasn't included. But then Heather being on that boat, you could see on her face like, I can't believe I've stooped this low. I can't believe. Stay on this show. I have to go whale watching with these Trace amigas.

[Mary]

She does think she's better than all of them, and she is.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Yes.

[Courtnee]

Oh, God. Okay, can we go back to Tamara and Jen? So they meet up for espresso martinis, and we're like, keep talking about Carmela. Because we have to have not just Vicki and Carmela, but we have to have Gina and Carmela, which you had spotted from the first episode. I have to be honest, I did not notice at Old Lady Drag Bingo that they were trying to set Gina and Carmela up. You pointed that out. Because I think it feels put upon. It's like the Loser Olympics.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

What do we care?

[Mary]

I know, I know.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Isn't Amber a real estate agent, by the way? Remember, she came on the show as a real estate agent. Like, we have so many real estate agents. Do we care? You guys, I'm pretty sure the pipeline

[Courtnee]

for Jen next will be getting her real estate agent dating life.

[Mary]

Oh, my God. That would be a great job for her, Mary. Maybe she could work for the Gate group. Wow.

[Courtnee]

Oh, I mean, it is funny, though, that Carmela works at the Oppenheim Group because they have their office on pch. Right? By the quiet woman.

[Mary]

Yes. No, we've driven by. Yep.

[Courtnee]

And I thought, how come she never made Selling the oc? Was she primed for the next season of Selling the oc? But because. Because it's so terrible, they canceled it and they moved Alex hall to selling Sunset. Did they kind of drop her down to oc? Not drop her down, but, you know, move her over.

[Mary]

Wait, I didn't know that she went over to Selling Sunset.

[Courtnee]

Yeah, because everyone over there is gone too. Like, Chrishell is gone. Chelsea's gone. Christine is back. It's a terrible cast. Mary's gone. Sally's should have ended years ago, but I think it's one of the higher rated watched ones once.

[Mary]

Okay, okay.

[Courtnee]

And so now they're like, we really,

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

for some reason, really want to put

[Courtnee]

all of our money on Alex Hall.

[Mary]

I like Alex Hall. She also has a podcast, too.

[Sponsor Voice (Bare Face / Butcherbox)]

I don't know.

[Mary]

She kind of fascinates me.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

But you like her.

[Courtnee]

Or if you're fascinated by her because she's terrible.

[Mary]

She fascinates me. Yes. Okay.

[Courtnee]

Okay. Thank you for clarifying because she's terrible.

[Mary]

But yeah, I imagine that Carmela definitely tried to get on selling the OC And I thought it was so funny that she worked for the Oppenheimer Group. But I mean, I think we've come to realize that if she's selling this new house for 89999, she does only sell one house a year.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

You're so right.

[Mary]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Okay.

[Courtnee]

I will say I was impressed with the. What she was saying, though.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

That does make sense because there are

[Courtnee]

bidding wars and so if you go price little lower.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And then I thought maybe she learned

[Courtnee]

that when she was the admin, she

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

had a good strategy.

[Courtnee]

She.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

She did.

[Courtnee]

But I was just laughing because Vicki is like, oh, hell no. I'm gonna expose her.

[Mary]

I think it really bothers Vicki because her now boyfriend is a developer. So she's like, this woman is not a developer because my soon to be husband is a developer.

[Courtnee]

So she's not even fiance yet.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

He's got the ring.

[Mary]

We haven't even talked about that. So do you think Vicki told the group last week, like, he has a ring because it makes herself feel better? But he has never actually said, I have a ring. And I talked to him at this party. He couldn't have been sweeter. He did not want to be in the vibe. Like he was there to support her and nothing else. I can't imagine that man being like, I'm only going to give it to you if you listen to me and you're good. Naughty girl.

[Courtnee]

I could see him saying it sarcastically, in a joking manner like, of course I have a ring, but you better be good. But then Vicki's like, he said, I

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

have to be good. That's why I'm a Debbie Downer, because I just have to kind of sit still and wait because that's the only way I can be good.

[Mary]

I feel like she has had many discussions with him about getting married. And he's like, yeah, I don't need to do that.

[Courtnee]

I don't think she needs to get married. I think she just wants the ring. I think she wants to wear that. I think that ring is a symbol for her, but she doesn't actually have to go through with it. And then maybe she. She still holds hope for Dawn.

[Mary]

It is really interesting because she's the one that owns all the homes and he's the one that lives with her.

[Courtnee]

Oh, Michael. Yeah, you're right. That's because he's developing and then he's flipping them.

[Mary]

Right, right, right, right.

[Courtnee]

So when Carmela was talking to the one potential client, I was impressed. But then when she met up with Tamara and Jen, I felt like she was backtracking because she couldn't give too much info about what she does.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And she's like, well, maybe it's just cuz, like my life is crazy. So I really like to take them

[Courtnee]

from deception to end. The way she was telling that story, I was like, see, now it feels like a lie. And I think we're so prone as fans to try to crack through people and be like, what are they really hiding from us?

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

She could be telling the truth, but

[Courtnee]

I don't know that I believe it.

[Mary]

I know I want to like Carmela.

[Courtnee]

I do, I do.

[Mary]

I think the girls aren't really giving her a fair shot. So that's why I'm trying to find the good in Carmela and I'm trying to like her because I know the girls are giving her a hard time because it's her first season.

[Courtnee]

Yeah.

[Mary]

But I don't know how it's gonna end for her.

[Courtnee]

Yeah, I mean, I know we did give a formal apology because we do like her, but I'm also like, why aren't you at Tamara's party? You, as a first time housewife, cannot afford to miss events.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And if you're paying 35k for your

[Courtnee]

3 month rental for this show, you

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

better be using it right.

[Courtnee]

You need a cost per day. You know when you like buy something expensive, you're like, well, if I wear it a hundred times, it only really costs $3 a week wear.

[Mary]

Exactly. I love doing cost per wear. I think it's very important.

[Jameda]

Yes.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And it justifies a lot of my spending. So.

[Courtnee]

Okay, we go over to Tamara. Also, watching Heather eat is really funny to me. Mostly because she does it. And we didn't mention this last week, but something about her having a little snack, which I know was dinner for her of three pickles. And that's why she keeps her figure. She's eating three pickles. She's asking for very rare carne asada. None of them are eating the tortilla.

[Mary]

No. If I'm gonna have that steak, it better be rare. Okay.

[Courtnee]

No, I love a rare steak too.

[Mary]

I. I like. Okay, I gotta take you here.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Oh.

[Brooke Devard]

Oh, I thought.

[Courtnee]

Oh, God. I thought we had a confession coming. I got nervous.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

You're like, I've never had steak.

[Mary]

I'm a big liar now. So we don't know what's going to come out next. Kind of bar became a mother, became a liar.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

You and Kristen, Doty girl,

[Mary]

when you're here, we need to go to Elena's in West Portal. Their steak fajitas are so rare. It's delish. It is. I call it elevated Chevy's. It is so freaking good.

[Courtnee]

You know, I love Chevy's. That's where I held my birthday every year as a kid. Cinco de Mayo.

[Mary]

Sophisticated Chevy's.

[Courtnee]

Maybe I'll just come up to go specifically to Elena's.

[Mary]

Yeah. Should we get into this stupid game? It's called the fuck you Heather game.

[Courtnee]

Great name. Heather should feel so lucky that she is the game. But then the fact that Tamra had directions, I was like, somebody made this game called what's in the Box. Is it from Etsy?

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Like, where is this game from?

[Mary]

So did a producer get this curated for them? Or did Tamara's assistant, like, I'd love to know the background of that. Was this actually Tamara's idea, or does production take part this over? I'd be so curious the inner workings of this because, like, obviously they have to play this game. So they talk shit to each other's face.

[Courtnee]

Again.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

They don't even have to talk because

[Courtnee]

it's supposed to be anonymous.

[Mary]

Vicki's, like, so worried. She's like, oh, my God, what are they gonna put in the box? Walks like, God, no, no, no, no, no. And then it was dubby down.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

I'm a positive, but everything hurts on me.

[Courtnee]

Everything hurts so bad. My knee is in such pains.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Like, babe, you prove it.

[Michaels Ad Voice]

I'm right.

[Courtnee]

Okay? Tamara goes first. Shannon writes eggshells. She doesn't know what she's gonna get. Heather uses deeply twice to express what she feels. It's like, Heather, it's supposed to be three words or less, not a full paragraph.

[Brooke Devard]

I know, point.

[Courtnee]

And Tamara just accepts everything that everyone says. And I'm like, oh, you guys don't even know how much of a strategy

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

this is on Tamara's behalf.

[Courtnee]

She's going to use all of this against you later in the season.

[Mary]

Completely. And it's so funny. Even in all their press, everyone keeps on saying Tamra has changed the most. It was a softer side of Tamra. Tamara's in the comments, you guys.

[Courtnee]

Guys, she's the smartest one of how to strategize.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

The problem is, is that she can't

[Courtnee]

keep it going for that long. So you might have gotten one season.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

She'll be back.

[Courtnee]

She knows the game. Not the what's in the box game.

[Mary]

The housewives Game. Exactly. She wrote the playbook. She wrote the rule.

[Courtnee]

She really did. Gina's a bus babe.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

She's a survivor.

[Courtnee]

She's a role model.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And she's like the mediator of the group.

[Courtnee]

Not to not night, but in general. And again, Gina looks fantastic. I did laugh when they were doing their stupid social media and her son comes in like, great, Mom's embarrassing me again.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Yeah. Oh, hey, Nick.

[Mary]

Emily.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

That feral Emily analyzer.

[Courtnee]

Lol. And then I thought maybe Carmela gave her a fake because she's like, emily's probably going to put an egg in here. Here. Maybe a donut.

[Mary]

Yeah, you're so right.

[Courtnee]

And yeah, also, this is such a minute detail and so stupid. But I am going to talk about it. Emily used to have this uniform that she would wear on the show, and it was always a chambray top, and it wasn't black jeans. She'd wear her, like, spanx leather leggings. But now that she's skinny again, she goes back, she's in these black flares with her chambray top. And I'm like, oh, she's back to her uniform. Uniform.

[Mary]

I love the black flares. I thought she looked fantastic.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Oh, she looks amazing. But I just laughed like, oh, she's

[Courtnee]

back in her uniform again. She loves that look. Heather, you're a social bestie.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Of course she is, because she reads the comments too, right?

[Jameda]

No.

[Mary]

And then it became this. Heather defending herself, getting really worked up. Jen chimes in, and Tamara is. Is just sitting back and, like, the game worked. And she kind of like looking at Vicki like, we're back, baby.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

We're back. Yes.

[Mary]

I. I honestly, I don't care what Jen says. I think this is so, so stupid. I think she's stupid.

[Sponsor Voice (Bare Face / Butcherbox)]

I'm sorry.

[Mary]

I don't usually say that, but she is not smart.

[Courtnee]

I do usually say that. So it's okay. Welcome to the club.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

It's just like, stop trying to make something that there isn't. You're.

[Courtnee]

You're not good at this. You can't stir the pot.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

You don't even know where the pots are.

[Mary]

I. I don't like this fight. I never want to see Jen fighting again because at the end of the day, she's a liar. I do think that's why I don't like her, because she lies about weird things, and I think she's just, like, not trustworthy, and she needs this job desperately, and I'm over her.

[Courtnee]

I'm with you. Seriously. That fire really, really turned me off on her. I Can't move past that.

[Mary]

But she was a peacekeeper. She's a hype girl. She's understanding and kind and dumb.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

I'd be like, wait, I thought it was anonymous. Might be like, you're so stupid. Where's your brain? Find it. And then they're like, who wrote that? And I'm like, why are you guys all admitting it? I thought it was anonymous.

[Jameda]

This.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

This ugly,

[Courtnee]

mean girl style, you know? But then start going off of Heather.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And Emily's like, shut up, Heather. All I've heard tonight is you talking. I'm like, see, you're reaching again. These story lines aren't making sense.

[Mary]

I. I can't follow it.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

I know.

[Mary]

And I think it's stupid.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

Yeah, I know.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Courtnee]

And Tamara says to Shannon at the end, because Shannon, the duchess, she's got a healthy boundary box. She's a work in progress. I'm like, okay, Ramona. Single, singer, and she's kind, but holds grudges.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

That was me.

[Courtnee]

Tamara says, that was me.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And then Shannon, when you sent me the text, it felt like old times. Oh, this is the thing.

[Mary]

I thought her bringing over the decorations was a great improvement. And they could have this alone time and they could be silly together. And I think they had a nice, nice beginning of this party. And then it's like, tamara, then you do this and bring it up again,

[Sponsor Voice (Bare Face / Butcherbox)]

but then you start crying because you're so happy she came over.

[Mary]

I was just like, I don't know. And then Shannon and her confessionals. Like, I really think this is a genuine apology, and it is good. So I am curious because it feels like today they are in a good place. When we went to that panel, they said they talked for an hour and 52 minutes on the phone, so they seem like they're buddies right now. I hope we get to see that. But I just don't trust Tamra. I know the cookie will crumble.

[Courtnee]

I want the Trace amigas to get back together. It's so nostalgic. I just always think about that Mexico trip. Remember Tamara, like, breaks her ankle on that trip.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Courtnee]

Shannon is going into the above ground hot tub with her crotchless Spanx.

[Mary]

Never forget white jeans.

[Courtnee]

Talk about a white jean.

[Mary]

Lover loves a white jean.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

That's so nostalgic.

[Courtnee]

I wish they could get back there.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

And obviously there's, like, trepidation on Shannon's end.

[Courtnee]

And they all are kind of cut from the same cloth, though. I think if they don't drink, they could. I feel like when they start drinking and they feel like they have to perform for each other in a way. Or if they're going to drink, they have to do it like together without the group. Because I feel like the group is there to instigate it. And Shannon's so easily susceptible to it because one wrong move she's gonna be.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

I knew Tamara was setting me up.

[Mary]

Yes. Yeah, you're so right.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

You're so right.

[Courtnee]

Like Tamara, she's on strike two already. Strike three, she's out. But I so badly would love for them to get to that because I think that's when they're their most fun. I completely agree.

[Mary]

And guess what, Courtney. We will be watching. We are tunedin.

[Unnamed Female Speaker (Friend of Mary and Courtnee)]

All right, well everybody have a fabulous

[Courtnee]

weekend, whatever you do. And we will see you Monday for Atlanta.

[Sponsor Voice (Bare Face / Butcherbox)]

Bye.

[Pace Case]

Bye.

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I thought it was safe.

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