TJG: RHOC S20 E5!

Summary

Two Judgey Girls – RHOC S20 E5! (August 12, 2026)

Podcast: Two Judgey Girls
Hosts: Courtney (Los Angeles) & Mary (Bay Area)
Episode: TJG: RHOC S20 E5!

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Episode Overview

Courtney and Mary reunite to break down Season 20, Episode 5 of The Real Housewives of Orange County, dissecting the latest drama, cast dynamics, and the ongoing search for authentic storylines. In this recap, both hosts agree the show feels overproduced and in need of a revamp, but they celebrate Carmela as a compelling new addition to the cast.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Is RHOC Too Light – Or Just Lacking Authentic Drama?

• Courtney: Observes that the “lighter” season is resulting in forced conflicts and manufactured storylines.

  “When they said it was gonna be a lighter season, I was unclear that that meant we have to make things up just so that we can pretend to fight.” (02:46)

2. Carmela as This Season’s Breakout

• Mary: Declares Carmela her favorite, compares her compelling but divisive presence to past "interesting" Housewives like Noella.
• Both hosts suspect Carmela embellishes aspects of her life and financial situation.
• Courtney:

  “Carmela reminds me, actually, a lot of Noella in that she just somehow irks the women, but they don't really have a reason of why.” (05:04)

• They debate whether Carmela is lying about her real estate status and income—Courtney notes the questionable house tour and take-out coffee cups as signs of possible deception.
• Both enjoy how Carmela holds her own and annoys Vicki.

3. Cast Member Critiques and Calls for a Revamp

• Debbie “Deb” Gumbalson (aka Debbie Downer):
  • Mary and Courtney agree Deb is over the drama and may have outgrown the show.
  • Mary:

    “She wants to live life and not be in conflict... You have outgrown the show, and that’s okay, Deb.” (03:23)

• General Cast Dynamic:
  • Courtney and Mary find the cast lacks genuine relationships and that multiple “seasoned veterans” are trying too hard to puppeteer drama.
  • Mary:

    “Everything is so produced and it’s lame.” (09:10)

  • Courtney:

    “I don’t even know what Emily and Heather are fighting about. I don’t know why Gina is so mad at Carmela... Vicki, you are a downer.” (09:27)

• Both suggest a total cast overhaul, possibly centered around Carmela.

4. Gifts & Jealousies: Dior Bags, Dildos, and Friendship Lines

• Carmela gifts Emily a Dior bag and a dildo, prompting jealousy from Gina and revealing underlying friendship insecurities.
• Courtney:

  “Babe, you can give me a Dior bag anytime. I’ll take the dildo too.” (07:41)

• The hosts joke about the intent and value of Housewives gifts.
• Gina is particularly pressed about not being Carmela’s “best friend" and not receiving the DIor bag.

5. Damaged Finances and Storyline Recycling

• The hosts discuss Shannon’s finances, her lack of safety net and costly lifestyle, and Tamara’s dig at Shannon's daughters’ college statuses.
• Sensing a repetitive cycle between Tamara and Shannon’s frenemies relationship.
• Mary:

  “She knows I need this show. I need this job and I need to film with her... She's kind of in a lose, lose situation.” (17:37)

• Courtney notes the exhausting cycle:

  “Rinse and repeat. Oh. Then Tamara says she's sorry, then I forgive her. Then she circles back and does a jab at me and takes me down, and then I forgive her. It's the same cycle.” (18:10)

6. Carmela Under Scrutiny: Interrogations and Her Past

• Emily repeatedly interrogates Carmela about her past (Playboy past, arrests, real estate), to the point of discomfort.
• Mary and Courtney agree the show is stretching for relevance by dragging up 20-year-old stories.
• Mary:

  “No. I think they're trying to show, like, Carmela has had a colored past... She has a restraining order... seems like she's, like, turned things around.” (29:22)

7. Housewife Investigations – Emily as “Hunter”

• Emily’s penchant for deep-diving new cast members’ backgrounds is becoming too much.
• Mary:

  “She's hunting wives. She's researching, she's hunting them down. It's just too much. Okay?” (31:42)

• Courtney:

  “Let's just have fucking fun.” (31:49)

8. The Dinner at Huntington Beach & Personal Anecdotes

• The hosts detour to discuss a personal story about Mary’s husband Michael secretly keeping an RV in storage, drawing parallels to housewife subterfuge and secrets.
• Mary:

  “It was a lie of omission…He has a storage unit for a storage unit. It's fucking insane.” (33:28)

• Provides a comedic break and highlights the “lies” theme running through both the cast and the hosts’ lives.

9. Gina & Tamara’s Espresso Brown Scene, and Phone-Game Drama

• Gina’s personal struggles, including custody battles and her daughter’s surgery, are touched on.
• The hosts mock the convoluted game of telephone resulting in misplaced animosity:
  Mary:

  “This is so fucking stupid. This is so stupid. I. I hate it here.” (42:27)

10. Emily and Heather’s Fractured Friendship, and Tears

• Emotional scene where Heather cries over being accused of fakeness and feeling isolated, despite being the group’s de facto “Fancy Pants.”
• Courtney:

  “I am Team Fancy Pants on this one, 100%. Also, Heather's like, I'm better than all of you.” (44:23)

• Mary highlights Heather’s need to feel needed and why she maintains certain relationships.

11. Whoop it Up Winery – Vicki the “Debbie Downer”

• Vicki continues her Debbie Downer streak, which the hosts say is being run into the ground.
• Debate over Vicki’s relevance; Courtney jokes her tagline should be accompanied by the “Debbie Downer” SNL sound effect.
• Courtney:

  “She’s really turned into a caricature of herself because she doesn’t know what to do.” (46:38)

12. Carmela, Gina, and the Dior Bag – The Season’s Petty Flashpoint

• The group’s wine trip devolves into bickering about gifts, labels (“developer” vs. “flipper”), and status.
• Gina attempts to hold Carmela accountable, but Carmela stays calm and witty.
• Courtney on Carmela:

  “I do like that Carmela is just so, like, calm. This is crazy. And, like, of course you guys are gonna haze the new girl. Here we go.” (51:12)

• Vicki’s jealousy is palpable, and Carmela’s “new girl” status becomes a running theme.
• Mary predicts Carmela is the only one entertaining this season.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“If Vicki likes you, that should actually be the bigger issue of it all.”
— Courtney (52:24)

“We have too many seasoned veterans that are trying to puppeteer, and it’s not working.”
— Mary (10:12)

“Let's just have fucking fun.”
— Courtney (31:49)

“None of these fights are worth it. I'm glad that Carmela held her own here.”
— Courtney (50:42)

“You’re going to get a Fiore. It’s gonna be a knockoff from dhgate and you blew it. And you know what? You're not even gonna get a good dildo that has a clit sucker on it. You're not. You blew it.”
— Courtney (53:15)

“She’s really turned into a caricature of herself because she doesn’t know what to do. And she just thinks she deserves the respect of being…And you don’t have that anymore, Vicki.”
— Courtney (46:38)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:46] – Opening takes on the season’s fake drama and cast fatigue.
• [05:04] – Carmela as the season’s Noella, and questions about her authenticity.
• [07:41] – Dior bags, dildos, and gift-based squabbles.
• [09:10] – Critique on how overproduced and forced the season feels.
• [14:04] – Vicki’s skepticism about Carmela’s financial stories.
• [17:37] – Shannon’s finances and Tamara’s pointed college comment.
• [29:09] – Emily’s interrogation of Carmela and the scrutiny of her past.
• [31:42] – Emily “hunting” wives’ backgrounds and hosts’ desire for fun.
• [33:28] – Mary’s story about Michael’s RV “lie of omission.”
• [42:43] – Hosts mock the drama confusion and lack of clear story arcs.
• [44:23] – Heather Dubrow’s (Fancy Pants) real tears and sense of betrayal.
• [50:42] – Carmela remains calm amid group attacks at the Whoop it Up Winery.
• [53:15] – Courtney’s jab about knockoff purses and dildos.
• [54:21] – Next week’s Vegas preview: hopes for less drama, more organic fun.

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Overall Tone

Witty, irreverent, and self-aware. Courtney and Mary riff on the absurdities of this RHOC season, often breaking the fourth wall to joke about their own lives and the realness (or lack thereof) on Bravo. Their banter is playful, unfiltered, and filled with both loving jabs at the cast and each other.

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For New and Casual Listeners

If you missed the episode, here’s what you need to know:

• The season feels stale and contrived, with the cast frantically searching for drama.
• Carmela is the breakout star—divisive, possibly dishonest, but interesting and self-assured.
• Major conflicts revolve around petty gifts, financial insecurities, fake storylines, and the perennial struggle to find authentic conflict that still entertains.
• Vicki's “Debbie Downer” act has overstayed its welcome, and the hosts agree the show is overdue for a full cast shake-up.
• Despite the show’s fatigue, Courtney and Mary keep the recap lively with sharp observations and relatable personal digressions.

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Final Call

“Go, Carmela. Can’t believe this is where we’re at for the 20th season.”
— Courtney (53:03)

Transcript

[Courtney]

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[Mary]

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[Courtney]

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[Courtney]

it's Courtney from la. We gotta talk Orange County. And you know, when they said it was gonna be a lighter season, I was unclear that that meant we have to make things up just so that we can pretend to fight.

[Mary]

Okay. My favorite housewife right now on Orange county is Carmela, and it's not Di

[Courtney]

Deborah. Debbie Downer. Deb Gumbalson, who I don't know if you guys have heard, she's down to Debbie Downer.

[Mary]

Deb is having a hard transition back. She has been out of the aim for way too long. She wants to live life and not be in conflict and. And she only wants to whoop it up from time to time. You have outgrown the show, and that's okay, Deb. It is okay. It's time to move on. Live your life in Puerto Vallarta, the desert. Go to Oklahoma. And Brianna, don't bring Michael because he's not allowed to go there because there's something weird there. What's going on with that? The eight years.

[Courtney]

He said it was the husband.

[Mary]

I saw this thing, too, when she was on the carpet at the Rugged party. And she's like, they are totally all good. I'm like, then how come they haven't seen each other in eight years? He comes to the United States for months at a time. You can't go to Oklahoma.

[Courtney]

He literally commented on Instagram. I texted Briana I was close to Oklahoma and I could come stop by. And she said, not a good time because of Ryan. She didn't say that because of Ryan, but it was insinuated because of Briana's husband. He's tried. He said, vicki, of course she's going to say everything's okay because Vicki's a liar. It takes one to know one. That's why she doesn't like Carmela, because she thinks Carmela's lying like Vicky lies.

[Mary]

So once again, going back to my

[Courtney]

point,

[Mary]

I. I think we need a complete revamp. I think that it could be centered around Carmela. Carmela has been great TV so far. I am rooting for Carmela. She is interesting. She has stories.

[Courtney]

What did we say about the word interesting?

[Mary]

Mary? I know. She's fascinating.

[Courtney]

Carmela reminds me, actually a lot of Noella and that she just somehow irks the women, but they don't really have a reason of why. It's mostly just she's the new girl and they want to pick on her because it's easier to do that than to go after each other, in a way. And it's like Jen's Too dumb to even play along. And can we mention what we said in last episode? I said the pipeline for Jen will be that she wants to be a real estate agent. And what happens this week? She's going to help Carmela. Carmela's just going to give her $23,000.

[Mary]

Emily's like, I will go to Home Depot for you for $20,000.

[Courtney]

Well, she's like, so what's she going to do? She's like, she's going to help me pick out tiles. I'm like, what else? Carmela. Carmela is lying a little bit. I do think that Carmela is a bit of a liar. That house that she gave Emily a tour of, that she put one photo of one of her daughters in to make it look like she lived there. The latte cups she gave were not coffee cups. They were the styrofoam coffee cups that you take to go because she only has a few of those in there. Cuz lives in this $35,000 a month rental because it's for three months. And it's like an Airbnb.

[Mary]

Those insulated cups, those are good for to go cocktails, guys, When you want to take the Uber. Yeah.

[Courtney]

Also coffee. Nah.

[Mary]

I'm telling you, I'm never going on a coffee date. I don't want to meet up for coffee unless it's an espresso martini.

[Courtney]

I hope you're not going on a date because you're married. I hope that that's the reason. Why not. Because it's a coffee.

[Mary]

No, like a friend date. Okay, a friend date.

[Courtney]

Oh, friend date.

[Mary]

I don't want to meet up with anyone for fudgeing coffee.

[Courtney]

Okay.

[Mary]

Ever. Don't ever ask me for coffee unless

[Courtney]

it's an espresso martini.

[Mary]

Yeah, that's different.

[Courtney]

Well. Oh, God. Okay. Anyways, I'm just saying I think Carmela, I'm curious about her, but I think she's also a bit of a liar. And I think that she's trying to flaunt a little bit of her money. And I think she's embellishing things, but I also enjoy how annoyed Vicky gets with her. And I think she's holding her own with the women.

[Mary]

I'd agree with that, too, but I mean, I love her little stories about the cheating, the arrest, making her money. I find her interesting. No, I tried to not use that word. I. I'd rather watch her than anyone else on this TV show right now.

[Courtney]

That's fair. That is totally fair. I'm just giving you a hard time I do think she's a great ad and I do like, when she can hold her own. I mean, like, Gina, you're literally jealous that Carmela makes better money than you do and that she talked to your best friend. And I love that she was getting mad. She's like, what do you mean? Heather said that Emily said that she considers Heather one of her best. Like, I'm her best friend. And then she's like, mad that Carmela gave the Dior bag to Emily because she's like, I gave her a two headed sweatshirt so we could shoot tiktoks. That's my friend. I think more about the intent of the gift as opposed to the price tag of the gift. Babe, you can give me a Dior bag anytime. I'll take the dildo too. And since you bought seven of them because you didn't know what kind she'd like, they could all be given to the women who could also diddle themselves and maybe not be so upset with each other.

[Mary]

Do you think we need a full blown revamp?

[Courtney]

You asked yesterday, will Vicky make it to the next season? And I'm like, will any of them? To be fair, there is something going on with this cast where we are searching for storylines and searching for ways to be upset with each other. And it's like, we don't have to have conflict to make a good show.

[Mary]

No, we need alcohol. I know they're trying to make it light and fun, but it's like, not. And like, the heart of the OC is nervous to drink on camera. And I know why.

[Courtney]

Is it the dui?

[Mary]

It's maybe and because Tamara wanted to potentially call her a drunk.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Mary]

But it just. It's so forced. Everything is so produced and it's. It's lame.

[Courtney]

Yeah. And that's why I'm like, why can't we just go on these adventures? Go to dinner? I mean, thank God we didn't see one workout class this episode. So I feel like they heard me too.

[Mary]

When I said that that was a win. That was a win for us.

[Courtney]

That was a win. But it's like, why can't we just see them enjoying instead of watching them trying to produce? There are natural producers like Giselle. I would even say Tamara is a producer. But when, like, dumb people like Jen try to produce, it's like, we can see what you're doing. I don't even know what Emily and Heather are fighting about. I don't know why Gina is so mad at Carmela Vick. Of course she doesn't like the new girl, but it's like, Vicki, you're just boring, okay? You are a downer. You are Deborah Debbie Downer. As Shannon said, it's not woohoo. It's boo hoo. It's like, I don't even mind Tamara this season. I like her this season because everybody else is trying way too hard.

[Mary]

We have too many seasoned veterans that are trying to puppeteer, and it's not working. Let's start with the episode title, Courtney, which was called Designers and Dildos. That's where we're at here, guys.

[Courtney]

Dildos in the title.

[Mary]

It was shocking.

[Courtney]

I can't even believe that Vicki likes Jen because Vicki, who's all about work, should like Carmela, someone who's independently making her own money. And yet you've got Jen here who literally can't figure out how to make money. Jen also can't afford anything. So when Vicki goes to get a hydro facial, Jen says, hey, do you have a sheet mask you could put on my face? Face? That's all I can afford at this med spa. It won't even stay on her face. It is falling off the chin the entire time.

[Mary]

What about when Vicki called Heather a cold fish? I have never heard that saying. Have you ever heard that before?

[Courtney]

Yeah, it's kind of like a wet blanket.

[Mary]

Oh, yeah. Just like cold fish.

[Courtney]

What? Vicki, you're the cold fish. You are the goldfish. Okay? Everything. She's just projecting what she is onto everybody else. I'm not a Debbie Downer. The count of Debbie Downer of this episode had to be over 25 times.

[Mary]

And that's the amount that we saw. Can you imagine how much they edited out?

[Courtney]

It's embarrassing, and I feel like it's not gonna stop.

[Mary]

It's not. It's not.

[Courtney]

What if when they did the taglines. Please. Bravo. You are under NBC. NBC, which is snl, which is where Debbie Downer originated from. When they do their taglines, Vicki delivers her. And then when you do, you know, the family shot instead of the music, it's just like, please, come on. You have access to the sound bite. Please.

[Mary]

Okay, Watch what happens live.

[Courtney]

Oh, my God.

[Mary]

Yeah. The actress that played Rachel.

[Courtney]

Drat.

[Mary]

She's been on Watch what happens live a bunch. They get her and Vicki on at the same time.

[Courtney]

Housewife Theater.

[Mary]

Oh, my God.

[Courtney]

And she's in Mary. Let's bring it back to you. She is starring in Rocky Horror Picture show on Broadway, which you have still never even seen or heard. There's a way to connect them. Please Bravo. Please listen to this. Please.

[Mary]

That would be epic. They can definitely do something together. Especially I think Andy's good friends with her.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Like, imagine Rachel dress, puts on a blonde wig, Vicki style, and just delivers Vicky lines. Like, I've never been with multiple people in my life. Wa Wa who brings a little family van. Wah wah. There's such a potential here.

[Mary]

Please, the party's here.

[Courtney]

It's more like, the party's here.

[Mary]

Please.

[Courtney]

This is perfect.

[Mary]

We're all gonna die someday.

[Courtney]

Tell her she died Sad. Do you. Do you work Wa Wa? The possibilities are endless. Please. You guys can have that idea for free. That will make this season work. And honestly, I feel like if Vicki was there to laugh at the joke, even though she'd be like, I'm not a Debbie Downer, you know, her shaky face. But like, please, please, please, I'm begging you. I think that would help turn this season around a little bit.

[Mary]

Something, something. I do think Vicki was a little bit onto Carmela during the facial. And she was like, so she's like a bragger. Why would she tell you she made $1.4 million on her first deal? That seems a little bit suspicious. And then she's like, I'm calling it now. She's going to ask Ryan to invest. I'm like, oh, that kind of does feel right.

[Courtney]

When she said that, I was like, oh, that is a read. And I 100 buy that.

[Mary]

Yeah, I did, too.

[Courtney]

Now I would love to take Carmela at face value that she just wants to help Jen, but I don't know that she's there to help Jen, who has no background in this. Jen who? Does she have a yoga studio? Unclear. It's like, Jen, you should be using this show to get brand deals. Aloe is all up in the OC business. She could be called R H O Alo. Okay, it is on, everyone. Heather is wearing one of the shirts again this week because I have the same one again. I must own a lot of aloe as well. Neither here nor there. But I'm thinking like, Jen, why can't you talk to Alo to do some sort of sponsorship with you or host a class at your yoga studio? You are just bad with money. And then I see Shannon and Jen. That should be a warning. Don't be Shannon, who actually might maybe have some money. I think Gene the machine has money, so Shannon will maybe get that money at some point in life. But I'm like, jen, that's your future.

[Mary]

I really liked that Shannon was forthcoming about her finances with her dad. It seems to me she probably got a big lump sum of money from David. That's why she rents these places for $10,000 a month. But it feels like she has no safety net and no retirement.

[Courtney]

So she has to work and.

[Mary]

And has never been in this situation in her life because I think she grew up very privileged.

[Courtney]

She borrowed 75k from John Jansen for a facelift. She has to get paid at least $500,000, a million dollars for each season of Orange County. That money going, I think it goes to her kids.

[Mary]

I think she pays a lot of stuff for their schooling, that type of thing. I. I mean, she helps the daughter in New York with her rent. Also, the comment that Tamara made, like, my kids are going to college. What was that about? Are the twins, like, out of school right now? I know the oldest graduated, but that was like a dig that we didn't dive deep into. I feel like she was saying, like, your kids dropped out or something. I think there was something more there.

[Courtney]

But also, who cares, though? One is, like, killing it in Europe. I thought the other one went to usc. Is that wrong? One was going to nyu, one was going to usc, but then doing abroad. One of them was abroad. Is that the USC one?

[Mary]

I'm not sure.

[Courtney]

I don't know. But either way, I'm like, I feel like Shannon's girls are pretty accomplished.

[Mary]

No, but there was a dig there.

[Courtney]

Totally.

[Mary]

Definitely something to say. And then it's like, also, Tamara, do you even talk to your daughter? I mean, that's me. That's. That's.

[Courtney]

Sorry. All Shannon had to do was throw that back at her. And I think Shannon withholding that was actually really smart of her. But then I saw something that Shannon also wasn't invited to. The finale party at Bluestone.

[Mary]

Oh. Something happened behind the scenes at that party because Bravo was mad at them.

[Courtney]

Oh, totally. But it felt like when we watched that, like, it's kind of a nothing burger. I'm wondering now if in future episodes we'll get flashbacks of more that happened there because they want rehook it to be more of a celebration. So maybe we'll see more on the show as episodes go on in a flashback way. What do you think?

[Mary]

Maybe. I feel like they built up this fight that it was going to be like this screaming match when it was really just Tamara spewing hate and mean things. And I feel like Shannon did her best to not go there, even though she completely could have. And I also think Shannon knows I need this show. I need this job and I need to film with her. So, like, she's kind of in a lose, lose situation in a lot of ways, and you can't hold onto that toxicity. Am I going to fight with Tamara Judge the rest of my life? Is that worth it? Probably not.

[Courtney]

Rinse and repeat. Rinse and repeat. Oh. Then Tamara says she's sorry, then I forgive her. Then she circles back and does a jab at me and takes me down, and then I forgive her. It's the same cycle. When does she get off the ride?

[Mary]

Also, the facelift thing. Alexis Bellino got a facelift.

[Courtney]

Yes.

[Mary]

And I was just like, did John Jensen pay for it?

[Courtney]

I mean, they're married from their joint accounts. Maybe he has a deal with a doctor and every girl he dates gets a complimentary face with, like, he gets a kickback from it, but he says it's like 75k maybe. Or they're like, oh, well, you brought Shannon in here. We'll do a two for one. Okay. Going back to the scene with Shannon and her dad, though, there feels like there's a lot of regret in this scene because they didn't move back to LA when Shannon was 10. And then I was like, have we met Shannon's brother or sister?

[Mary]

No, I don't think so. Yeah.

[Courtney]

I'm surprised that neither of them have popped up over the years. And the regret of being like, we should have moved back to la. I love my school and said, we stayed there. And her dad's like, I was a coward.

[Mary]

Also, you guys were literally talking about something that happened 50 years ago. Like, move on. I'm sorry. This was a stretch for me at the least.

[Courtney]

I was like, are we going to be using. Like, this is why we are who we are. Because at 10 years old, I didn't move back to LA. You went to USC. You did go back to LA eventually. Eight years later, you went back. Like, I loved my school at 10 years old. I don't know why.

[Mary]

It was, like, cracking me up.

[Courtney]

It was like, this is so long ago. I think you can move on now.

[Mary]

She's literally 60. Like, this was 50 fucking years ago. Like, oh, God, once again, we need a revamp. I love the heart of the oc, but, my God, what are we talking about now? This has gotten crazy.

[Courtney]

Agreed. Let's take a break and come back.

[Mary]

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[Courtney]

okay, so Emily goes over to Carmela's house where they have their insulated coffees and good for cocktail. Or maybe. Maybe it was.

[Mary]

It wasn't coffee. I'm on to them.

[Courtney]

It's like love is blind when they give them those gold goblets for continuity, you know, because sometimes they want to change the conversation so they're like, hide the amount of coffee. But Emily's coming over to interrogate her, and it sounds like she's interrogated her a few times throughout the season already. And when she's talking about, well, you should have led with Vicki about your arrest and not your real estate developer. But Carmela's talking about what happened with a restraining order again, Mary. 20 years ago. Talking about something from 20 years ago. Is there a statute of limitations of how we could talk about. About something from so long ago?

[Mary]

I would say so. I. I definitely.

[Courtney]

50.

[Mary]

50 and over. Absolutely not. We should not be talking about that.

[Courtney]

50 and over is the cut off.

[Mary]

No. I think they're trying to show, like, Carmela has had a colored past. You know, she was a Playboy playmate. She has a restraining order. It seems like she's, like, turned things around.

[Courtney]

She was in the WWE, but this. She's talking about she 20 years old in a bar with the same place one of her husband's exes that had the restraining order on her, and she couldn't be within 100 yards. But you also are 20 years old. How are you in a bar?

[Mary]

Oh, good point. Good point. Ohio. Just Ohio.

[Courtney]

And then I was thinking, too, when Emily's like, well, I could have been there. I'm like, oh, my God, I forgot that Emily is from Ohio.

[Mary]

They have that connection.

[Courtney]

Do you think they're going to take us there eventually?

[Mary]

No, no, no, no.

[Courtney]

Not this season. But in a future season, we're going to Ohio because we have two castmates from Ohio.

[Mary]

I don't think I. I feel like we're gonna sunset Emily and Gina. I mean, I said that last year.

[Courtney]

We say that every season that we think they're getting sunset. And every season they're like, the first two invited back.

[Mary]

We're not going to Ohio. I'm just calling it right now. We're not going to Ohio.

[Courtney]

Okay. Okay.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

At the winery dinner later in the episode, they do another flashback of Emily asking all these questions of Carmela.

[Mary]

Okay. I love someone that is an investigator. I love people figuring out the background on people, and I think it's important. I do feel like Emily was interrogating her that was the problem. It's like, Emily, you're like, oh, my God, where are you from? You're from Ohio. I'm from Ohio, too. Oh, is that how you met your husband? He was on the Browns. Right. Okay. And, you know, coax them, give them a couple glasses of wine, you know, warm up, find some things in common and then let them share it. Comes more naturally versus you literally doing 20 questions with them. It wasn't a fun game for Carmella.

[Courtney]

Yeah. And then it's like, of course, Emily gets in the car and she's probably like, gina. Guess Gina. We dial on her so that we can bring it up later in the season. It's like, I think of it, like, when she's like, laughing with Carme Mellow here. And then I think about all the research that she did on Katie last year that she felt the need to bring up in the reunion, and I'm like, I just can't trust her. Don't trust Emily.

[Mary]

She's hunting wives. She's researching, she's hunting them down. It's just too much. Okay?

[Courtney]

They just. Let's just have fucking fun. Yeah, let's have fucking fun.

[Mary]

I just wanna have fun. Do you guys notice how much more I swear now? Yeah, I mean, a year out of the office.

[Courtney]

So you're swearing.

[Mary]

F bomb. F bomb. F bomb.

[Courtney]

Yeah, just. Who is she

[Mary]

turning to fall? Mary.

[Courtney]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not yet. Not yet. Okay, let's go to the Vicky, Heather, Shannon, Gina dinner. So this takes place in Huntington beach on Main street, next to the restaurant I used to work at, French. This is Jolie. It's new. Er. Apparently it's a steakhouse because they all order steak and it looked delicious.

[Mary]

It did, it did.

[Courtney]

There's nothing more that I like than a medium rare steak.

[Mary]

I feel like you should definitely take your mom here.

[Courtney]

Or should my mom take me there?

[Mary]

That would be nice, too.

[Courtney]

She's gone there. She said it's nice.

[Mary]

Okay.

[Courtney]

Overlooks the water, especially, like, at night. It's a good sunset place.

[Mary]

Oh, okay. I'd love to go with you sometime. Just like the quiet woman.

[Courtney]

No, Mary, you go there all the time with your girlfriend for martinis.

[Mary]

What do you mean?

[Courtney]

Do you notice, too? She's also swearing a lot. Lying more. Do you guys notice that? She forgot to leave that out.

[Mary]

You guys, Michael confessed, like, a big lie to me last night. I was, like, shocked.

[Courtney]

How long has he been keeping the lie?

[Mary]

A year.

[Courtney]

Wait, and how did it come up?

[Mary]

It was a lie. Of omission. Okay,

[Courtney]

this is better than the OC season.

[Mary]

Tell us. So Michael has this RV that he only uses for Burning Man. And you guys, I would say it's a piece of shit. I've never actually seen it in person. He got it stuck at Burning man, had to go up there two weeks later, got, like, a new transmission for it. It's like a 1984 RV. It's wor. No money. The amount of money he has put in this is actually insane.

[Courtney]

And he keeps it far away.

[Mary]

Right.

[Courtney]

So he used to be able to

[Mary]

park it at work. The work was like, you can't park the RV here anymore.

[Courtney]

You gotta get rid of the jalopy, as Luann would probably call it.

[Mary]

Exactly. So there are, like, streets that you can park it overnight, and there's like, a bunch of different RVs there.

[Courtney]

Sure.

[Mary]

So Michael parks it down there by his work. And then I think there was times going up where he was parking it and he was going to have to move it very often. And so I guess right before we had Charlie, he put it into a storage unit. So the other day I asked him, what's going on with the rv? And he's like, oh, nothing. It's fine. And I. I didn't think anything of it, but. But I have thought, like, God, he never goes and checks on it, because I can tell, because he'll come back so much later after work, because, like, there was always, like, a problem. Like, the battery doesn't work, so he can't move it, or like, he got a ticket. You know, there's always fucking something so stupid. And like last night, right before we went to bed, he was like, so I have a storage unit for the rv. And I was like, no, like. Like, oh, my God. And then I'm like, how much are you paying? I don't even think anyone would buy it. The fact that he is holding on to this. It's a storage unit, essentially. He has a storage unit for a storage unit. It's fucking insane.

[Courtney]

How much.

[Mary]

So at first I was like, I don't even want to know because it just will bother me. And then I asked later on, and so 150amonth, which isn't crazy, but a waste of money.

[Courtney]

It's for nothing. He's got to get rid of that. Did you say that could go to our child?

[Mary]

Believe me, I was like, you have to sell that thing or, I don't even know, donate. You got to get rid of that. So then he Woke up at 3am because he was stressed. I'm like, well, the lies of omission will hurt you. But he doesn't know I've become a liar either, so.

[Courtney]

And if you guys know Michael personally and you're listening, don't tell him.

[Mary]

Don't tell. What are my lies again? I can't even keep up with them. The quiet woman. And there was one more.

[Courtney]

You're lying about everything. I can't keep up because I don't know anymore. I just learned not to trust what you say. It's. You know, it's. I'm going to the bathroom.

[Mary]

Liar.

[Courtney]

Remember that, Mary, you're a little liar. You married a liar, and you guys are now the liarsons. Do you feel good about that?

[Mary]

It was just. It was so funny when you, like, admitted it, you know, because Michael's.

[Courtney]

He literally just, like, the nicest. And I could just feel like it was giving hives. Like, stress hives. Why did he decide to tell you last night?

[Mary]

I thought it was interesting. Right before bed. We were also doing a taste test. We were doing Starburst versus Mambas.

[Courtney]

We're learning so much today. So embarrassed. I love that you're acting as if, like, you were doing a taste test of Starburst versus Mambas, which is why it would lead to admitting a lie.

[Mary]

It was so innocent. Just started with the taste test.

[Courtney]

Okay, let's take a break and compose.

[Mary]

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[Mary]

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[Stephen]

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[Courtney]

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[Courtney]

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[Mary]

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[Courtney]

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[Mary]

We ordered a Wagyu steak dinner and that pistachio gelato was too good. So where should we go next year?

[Courtney]

I've got ideas.

[Mary]

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[Courtney]

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[Mary]

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[Courtney]

Gina and Tamara walking in their espresso brown outfits. I like their workout outfits. Gina had a black jacket on but it was espresso brown, coffee brown underneath. And Gina, she's tired. Her daughter had an appendectomy. Is that how you say it?

[Mary]

Yes.

[Courtney]

Do you have your appendix? I do. I do. Do you? I do. I'm not sure if you do, because you're probably lying to us.

[Mary]

No, I. I do have them. But it's so cool what they can do now. It's like the recovery is, like, nothing. So amazing.

[Courtney]

I feel like they used to have to, like, cut you open, and now they don't really need to. But that's, like, very scary, too. I find Gina's, like, relationship with Travis and the kids and the custody. I kind of want to know more about that. I know the ex wife, like, we can't involve her. But I just think, what is she doing?

[Mary]

That woman has so much power in their relationship, they're not allowed to talk about it. They've had crazy custody battles. She essentially moved out because she couldn't deal with the woman any longer. And I feel like she's really restrained, and she. She hasn't told us the whole story because she's worried.

[Courtney]

What I liked about this scene, though, and I'm like, I'm wondering if Gina is catching on or if they're talking behind the scenes. But Tamara tells Gina that Carmela is upset with her because Emily basically threw Gina under the bus.

[Mary]

This is like a game of telephone, though.

[Courtney]

It was like, oh, okay, Gina is

[Mary]

mad that you gave me a dildo and a Dior bag. And then Tamara is going to tell Gina that Carmela isn't happy with her. I'm like, oh, my God, this is so fucking stupid. This is so stupid. I. I hate it here.

[Courtney]

I hate it.

[Mary]

And. And I. I can't even follow it. I'm like, who's mad at who? I need a flowchart. Yeah.

[Courtney]

No, no, no. I agree. And then it's also like, Emily's not even wearing the purse to any of these events. I'd be showing up with that purse every single event, being like, don't you bitches wish you had a Dior bag? Like, again, Carmel, you could send this to me at any point. The one thing that I will laugh about at this scene, because when Tamara tells Gina that Carmela is letting Jen help her, and Gina goes, jen Pedranti.

[Mary]

I know

[Courtney]

we. By the way, we have to rewind because we were going to talk about the dinner in Huntington beach, but then we went into Michael lying.

[Mary]

Yeah, sure, sure.

[Courtney]

And that was a great story. I'm glad that we got that. But I do want to go back to this scene as well, because talk about a game of telephone. Why are Heather and Emily fighting? I don't understand, because they both talk a lot. Why are we in an argument? And why is Heather crying?

[Mary]

I felt bad for Heather that she was crying.

[Courtney]

Was he really acting?

[Mary]

No, I think those were real tears. And because she's like, what is happening here? How am I becoming the villain? Tamara is going after me saying I'm fake. Then I'm really good friends with Em, and she says I'm her best friend, and I give her great parenting advice. Then to come to find out she's the one also talking about me. And then Gina and Heather have had a really good relationship, like, as New Yorkers, and she's on an island by herself. She thought she could trust Jen Pedrante, and she clearly can't either. So I feel bad for Heather.

[Courtney]

I am Team Fancy Pants on this one, 100%. Also, Heather's like, I'm better than all of you. Emily, you say, I'm your best friend. Don't worry, you're not mine. What does Emily offer Heather?

[Mary]

Well, I think Heather enjoys giving her parental advice to Emily and being a support.

[Courtney]

Right, But I'm saying, like, that's what Heather does for Emily. But in the reverse, what does Emily do for Heather? Throw her under the bus for talking too much.

[Mary]

But don't you think that some people want to feel needed in that way? So, like, she is providing that for her.

[Courtney]

100%. Definitely. But Heather does not consider you a best friend.

[Mary]

No, no. Also, like Tamara, she has no friends. She has to keep filming with Sophia. I'm sorry. I don't want to see her film with Sophia. But do you like her filming with her?

[Courtney]

No. Eddie won't film with her, and then they have that podcast together, so I feel like she wants to have scenes there. And I'd rather her film with Sophia if the other option was Ryan.

[Mary]

Right? I mean, Ryan's not allowed to film.

[Courtney]

I'm fine with it being Sophia. She's on birth control now.

[Mary]

Oh, wouldn't you die if your mom told the world?

[Courtney]

Between that and Jen being like, I taught my daughter how to use a tampon. It's like, leave them alone. Leave the children alone. Okay, let's go to Whoop it Up Winery. Hey, guys, it's time to whoop it up Up. Also, Vicki, stop wearing heels. Obviously, your knee is having an issue. We just got to put her in a wheelchair or something. It's getting worse. Watching her hobble along, it's sad.

[Mary]

She needs a knee replacement.

[Courtney]

And she did this on Rehook it too. She's like, I don't want to sit on the end. They call me Debbie Downer when I'm on the end because I can't hear. I'm like, no, they call you Debbie Downer because you're a buzz kill, Eeyore.

[Mary]

And then she's like, okay, all I

[Courtney]

have to do is drink a ton

[Mary]

of wine and I'll become fun. And that's not what's gonna happen. Then I feel like she's gonna have a moment this season that she gets really, really drunk and just cries, saying,

[Courtney]

I'm not a Debbie down there. And then someone in the background just goes, It's getting to be too much. She's really turned into a caricature of herself because she doesn't know what to do. And she just thinks she deserves the respect of being. And you don't have that anymore, Vicki. You've been gone for too long. You have Tamara and Shannon, who really are top dogs of frenemies here. You've got Heather there. Like, you don't have the level of respect you think you should have because there's other people who have done a lot for this franchise over you now. You're right. Nobody else has lied about cancer. You do own that title.

[Mary]

Is Megan King Edmonds going to be in Rugged? She should be.

[Courtney]

I wonder if she'll be in the sky tops end of season party.

[Mary]

I sure hope so.

[Courtney]

When Vicki was on watch what happens live with the rehook it women, and they were doing the breaking of the bottles on Andy's head. She hit Andy too hard on the first round. He's like, you don't have to go that hard, Vicky. But if you answer the question truthfully, that's how you can break the bottle. And he said, how good on a scale of 1 to 10, was Brooks in bed? And she said, zero. But I'm like, didn't she leave dawn for Brooks because he was filling the love tank.

[Mary]

Yeah. And filling her up.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Mary]

My mind's not like it's dirty. I want to say something. Yeah, I won't say. You know what I'm thinking, right?

[Courtney]

I don't. What are you saying? What are you thinking?

[Mary]

Okay, moving forward, let's talk about Gina holding Carmela to the fire. That's my best friend. I heard you said she talks too much and asks too many questions. And then you bring her a dildo and a dior bag you're supposed to masturbate with that. How weird is that?

[Courtney]

When Emily's like, well, maybe I ask a lot of questions because I wasn't getting straight answers. And it's like, well, yeah, you were interrogating her, you weirdo. Lay off her.

[Mary]

I really like Carmel. She even brought her own vodka to this winery because she doesn't drink wine.

[Courtney]

When Emily was like, she's like a magician pulling things out of her pocket. I'm like, okay, egg. Okay. Jimmy John's turkey sandwich. Like pharaoh Emily, you're the queen of pulling shit out of a purse.

[Mary]

You're so right. Also, we haven't had any. Any alone time with Emily telling her story.

[Courtney]

That's okay.

[Mary]

I am curious about her and Shane, but they're fine. They just went to Baja. Mar.

[Courtney]

Then Gina and Emily, they go at it. She's like, I don't need you to jump in. Don't say you don't need me. Emily's like, of course I need you in my life. You're my best friend. But I just don't need you in this combo. I'm like, where are we going with this? What are we doing?

[Mary]

Yeah. So basically, we had Gina versus Carmela. Then we had Emily and Gina get into a fight. Because of the fight.

[Courtney]

Emily and Heather.

[Mary]

Oh, then Emily and Heather. And then also Vicky being mad at Carmela for pretending to be a developer because her future husband is a developer, even though semantics, because he hasn't.

[Courtney]

Semantics would be the right word. She said schematics. Not the right word. When Carmel is like, hi, Vicki. She's like, it's so nice to meet you, Vicki. You're such a. See you next Tuesday. She's like, well, we've met. She's like, ish.

[Mary]

I loved it.

[Courtney]

I loved it because it makes Vicki look so stupid.

[Mary]

Exactly.

[Courtney]

I wish Carmela would have just gone and said, oh, sorry, I met you as Debbie.

[Mary]

It's Deb, right?

[Courtney]

Yeah, exactly. If Carmela come back with that, oh, God, just imagine the way that Vicky would have gone nuts.

[Mary]

Oh, that would have been fantastic.

[Courtney]

Oh, man. Missed opportunity. None of these fights are worth it. I'm glad that Carmela held her own here. And then, like, Gina had to backtrack because she looked dumb.

[Mary]

Right. She knew how to walk it back. She knows what she's doing. She's like, okay, let's create some drama here. But then by the end of this dinner, we'll have a little bit of resolution. But I'll give the viewers what they want. But honestly, this was lame, dorky, not needed.

[Courtney]

When Carmela was like, well, Gina, if you have an issue, why don't you just call me next time? She's like, I don't even have your phone number. Good one, Gina. You got her. She's like, okay, like, I'll give you my number then, and then you could call me. I do like that. Carmela is just so, like, calm. And it's like, this is crazy. And, like, of course you guys are gonna haze the new girl. Here we go. And then Vicki, because Vicki, again, she's also a liar face. It takes one to no one. She's like, why won't she just say she's a flipper?

[Mary]

Why is she so obsessed with this?

[Courtney]

It's like Kelly Bensma being like, you're a cook, not a chef.

[Mary]

Right? Yes. Yes.

[Courtney]

Who cares? Who cares? Vicki, you're not gonna buy anything.

[Mary]

No, you're not.

[Courtney]

And you know what? Don't worry. It's probably gonna be ugly because Jun's gonna pick out ugly tiles.

[Mary]

Vicki is upset. She's calling herself a developer because she holds Mike to, like, a higher standard than Carmela, yet Mike moved in with her. Right.

[Courtney]

She's also just, like, jealous of the new girl, per usual. I mean, she's only been nice to Shannon. That was the only new girl, which I feel like Shannon, instead of taking that as a badge of honor, she'd be like, the.

[Mary]

Why did she like me immediately? That's a bad sign.

[Courtney]

Right? Right. Like, if Vicki likes you, that should actually be the bigger issue of it all.

[Mary]

Red flags. Red flags.

[Courtney]

Yeah. So actually, I'm gonna walk it back in the preview for the season. Remember, Vicki says something to Carmel, and she's like, you're the new girl. And Carmela says back to Vicki, like, well, so are you this season. Because Vicki's back, right? Vicki's like, well, I've been here since the beginning. You know what? Point to Carmela on that. I'm gonna give that to her for how she said that. Because at this point, Vicki just look.

[Mary]

No. Carmela held her own, and I love that she's not gonna let these women tear her down. She's my favorite to watch by far this season, and I hope she will

[Courtney]

rise like Stacy Rush. Go, Carmela. Can't believe this is where we're at for the 20th season.

[Mary]

May all our fights be about Persis.

[Courtney]

And literally, I kept thinking, Gina, out of anyone who could benefit from a Dior purse on this cast, it's you. And you blew your chances at a Future Dior purse. You're going to get a Fiore. It's gonna be a knockoff from dhgate and you blew it. And you know what? You're not even gonna get a good dildo that has a clit sucker on it. You're not. You blew it.

[Mary]

That was funny. I will say next week in Vegas looks fun. I like when they can get out of their places. Hopefully they'll get to share some hotel rooms, being close quarters.

[Courtney]

Well, you know they are because Heather's upset that Gina and Emily are sharing. I'm like, heather cannot be upset. Gina and Emily literally always share.

[Mary]

Who is she going to share with? Maybe Heather and Tamara.

[Courtney]

Heather's getting her own room.

[Mary]

Yeah, that's true. She definitely want her own room. She's that type of person.

[Courtney]

Remember when we went to Vegas because Gretchen was performing with the Pussycat Dolls and then remember when we went when Emily was doing her burlesque thing but Shane wouldn't come, so Shane's parents came instead? Yeah, I remember that too. I prefer no burlesque dancing this time around.

[Mary]

We are going to see them dress up like flapper girls. Great. Yeah.

[Courtney]

Like the show girls.

[Mary]

Yeah. Great. We got Shannon and Vicki dressed up as them. Maybe just them to do it as the their day activity.

[Courtney]

And I bet they fall over Laverne and Shirley. Oh, or just two silly physical comedians.

[Mary]

Chris Farley, Molly, Shannon, Rachel, Dratch. Bye, everybody.

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[Mary]

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[Stephen]

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[Courtney]

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[Courtney]

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[Mary]

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[Courtney]

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[Mary]

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[Stephen]

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[Mary]

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[Courtney]

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