TJG: Southern Charm S11 Reunion Part 2!

Summary

Podcast Summary: Two Judgey Girls – Southern Charm S11 Reunion Part 2!

Episode Date: March 26, 2026
Hosts: Courtney (LA) & Mary (Bay Area)
Episode Theme:
A witty, in-depth recap and analysis of Southern Charm’s Season 11 Reunion Part 2. Courtney and Mary bring their trademark humor and insight to Bravo’s latest drama, dissecting cast dynamics, relationships, and reality TV tropes.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Courtney and Mary unpack the drama from the Southern Charm Season 11 Reunion Part 2, sharing their updated thoughts on cast relationships, Bravo March Madness, and reality TV gossip. The girls also speculate on next season storylines, talk about inter-cast friendships and feuds, and touch on broader Bravo-related pop culture news.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. March Madness Update & West Wilson Fandom

• [04:10–07:51]
• Courtney and Mary celebrate their March Madness “Final Four,” with West Wilson as Mary’s new favorite.
• Mary recounts her personal interaction with West (“He once kissed me on the cheek, you guys. No big deal.” – Mary, 04:23).
• Courtney appreciates the contestants' participation and notes, “I prefer a participant.” (06:34)
• They joke about never washing the spot where West kissed Mary.

2. Watch What Happens Live Recap: West’s Nerves & Amanda Rumors

• [08:00–09:15]
• Discussion of West Wilson’s nervous energy on live TV and handling of Amanda rumors.
• Courtney: “All he had to say was no, but because it wasn’t a straight up no, the fandom has gone wild.” (08:41)
• Mary insists, “It didn’t happen, you guys.” (09:07)

3. Bravo News: Paige & Hannah’s Netflix Sitcom; Craig & Paige Breakup Analysis

• [09:24–12:14]
• Paige DeSorbo & Hannah Berner will star in and co-write a Netflix sitcom produced by Amy Poehler. Andy Cohen’s on-air reaction mentioned (“Craig is going to need his magician to make him some pretend-to-be-happy-for-you spray…” – Andy via Courtney, 10:06).
• The hosts delve into Craig Conover’s journey from fan favorite to reality TV “villain,” his handling of the Paige breakup, and emotional fallout.
• “He does tell some great stories. For him, just to see her continue to do well has to kill him.” (Courtney, 11:03)

4. Kyle Cook’s Behavior and Partying Patterns

• [12:32–14:35]
• Kyle’s afterparty antics aren’t new: “We see this on Summer House. Like, this is no different.” (Mary, 12:57)
• Courtney jokes about Mary’s FOMO: “Kyle is someone who has massive FOMO. Like, someone else I know on this podcast right now—FOMOMO: Fear Of Mary’s Missing Out.” (13:26)
• They riff about lateness, party arrivals, and Kesha concerts.

5. The Bachelorette Rumors & Reality TV Crossover

• [15:33–17:46]
• Speculation about Maura from The Traitors being the new Bachelorette.
• Courtney feels “it’s a little beneath her…going back to a love show,” (16:33) after already doing Love Island.
• They discuss scheduling conflicts and other reality TV shake-ups, like Dancing with the Stars.

6. MomTok Drama – Jesse on Call Her Daddy

• [18:21–22:01]
• Recap of Jesse’s recent Call Her Daddy appearance: divorce revelations, accusations against her ex, alleged blackmail, and the media circus.
• Mary: “He just sounds like very evil. And I just hope the best for Jesse.” (19:17)
• Courtney observes the toxic dynamics and reality TV parallels: “He was clearly so jealous. He wanted to be the leader of Dad Talk.” (20:32)

7. Southern Charm S11 Reunion Part 2 Breakdown

a) Craig’s Reality Perception and Relationship with Charlie

• [25:57–34:43]
• Craig feels he “had a good season” except for the Mexico incident.
• “Reality is a different reality for him than the actual reality of the world.” (Courtney, 26:35)
• Discussion around Charlie possibly playing up her interest for the show versus genuine feelings, with both agreeing the lines are blurred.
• Mary: “Cell phones are so dangerous because I feel like they had a connection over the cell phone, but not in person.” (29:58)
• Both conclude: Craig felt rejected; Charlie moved on to Justin.

b) Charlie’s Future & Reality TV Suitability

• [34:16–34:43]
• Mary: “You are ending it with Craig Conover—Sally’s been trying to get him all season. She couldn’t, so she moved on to Austin. Like, he was the biggest star at the beginning…Now he looks like the villain.”
• Courtney wonders about blurred truths: “There’s three sides. His side, her side, and the truth.” (32:06)

c) Venita and Sally: Friendship Fallout

• [35:58–39:13]
• Tension dissected: Venita feels unsupported and hurt by fans’ comments, Sally seemingly “for Austin,” not her friends.
• Courtney: “Sally’s for Sally, and Sally is a little desperado.” (38:10)
• They discuss the difficulty of friendship shifts amid the chaos of Bravo casts.

8. Team Craig vs. Team Madison Debate

• [43:41–46:12]
• “I do not know why Madison is Team Craig.” (Mary, 43:41)
• Courtney rationalizes that Madison is strategic: “At the end of the day, everybody had an issue with Craig, meaning they all had a storyline.”
• They debate accepting Craig as he is versus expecting real change.

9. Production/Psychological Dynamics

• [45:47–46:38]
• Craig complains about food/water deprivation; Andy rebuffs this with receipts: “Andy was so pissed…do not try to say that the show did not give you food or water.” (Courtney, 45:51)
• Clip played of food being served quashes Craig’s narrative.

10. Cast Future, Show Structure, and Season 12 Hopes

• [47:38–54:22]
• Courtney and Mary agree the “core trio” (Shep, Austin, Craig) must return for the show to work, but Charlie would be better suited for Southern Hospitality.
• “The girls are actually friends”—for once, the hosts want more genuine off-camera bonding.
• Possible ideas for next season: group ayahuasca trip, Madison as mediator, officiating Rod’s wedding, and keeping Molly and Vanita.
• On cast dynamics, Courtney sums up, “Right now I feel like the alliances aren’t girls—it’s whoever the girls are going to attach themselves to of the guys on the cast.” (50:26)

11. Wild Predictions & Closing Thoughts

• [54:36–56:11]
• Mary suggests (“wild” thought) that Sally could end up with Austin à la Katherine Dennis and Thomas Ravenel, to which Courtney strongly objects.
• Laughter about Bravo’s perpetual romantic entanglements, referencing the Bachelor franchise as well.

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Memorable Quotes

• “I’m not gonna cry because it’s over. I’m going to smile because it happened.”
  — Courtney quoting Dr. Seuss/Tyler Perry (07:54)

• “Cell phones are so dangerous because I feel like they had a connection over the cell phone, but not in person.”
  — Mary (29:58)

• “Reality is a different reality for him than the actual reality of the world.”
  — Courtney on Craig (26:35)

• “Sally’s for Sally, and Sally is a little desperado.”
  — Courtney (38:10)

• “She’s not indebted to him forever.”
  — Courtney on Venita after Craig “saving her life” (54:03)

• “If Craig thinks he’s done his best, well, then we have to accept him for that and then decide if you want to be his friend in the state that he is in…”
  — Courtney (47:00)

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Timestamps for Notable Segments

• March Madness & West Wilson Fandom – 04:10
• Amanda Rumors on WWHL – 08:00
• Paige & Hannah’s Sitcom News / Craig’s Downfall – 09:24
• Kyle Cook’s Partying – 12:32
• Bachelorette Speculation – 15:33
• MomTok & Jesse's Divorce – 18:21
• Southern Charm Reunion Pt 2 Breakdown Starts – 25:57
• Craig & Charlie Analysis – 25:57–34:43
• Venita/Sally Friendship Drama – 35:58–39:13
• Team Craig/Team Madison – 43:41
• Production Callout / Food & Water – 45:47
• Season 12 Hopes & Predictions – 47:38

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Tone & Style

Courtney and Mary maintain their signature blend of snarky humor, candor, and pop culture savvy. They reference Bravo history, social media debates, and even their own podcast dynamics to highlight the ever-evolving (and often absurd) world of reality television.

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Final Takeaways

This episode is a perfect encapsulation of Two Judgey Girls: smart, irreverent, and deeply immersed in Bravo lore. If you missed Southern Charm’s reunion, the girls’ lively play-by-play and analysis will catch you up on all the alliances, drama, and future possibilities—served with plenty of laughs.

Transcript

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[Courtney]

it's Courtney from la. It is Wednesday, which means we are in the fourth final four of March Madness. And by the time some of you listen to this, it will be the final two of March Madness. What a week.

[Mary]

It is so exciting. I mean, I am rooting for my man Wes Wilson now at this point, I just, I love him so much. He. He once kissed me on the cheek, you guys. No big deal.

[Courtney]

She is playing with her hair like a little girl and blushing so hard right now. I wish you guys could see this visual, which is like surprising to me because you've loved west but you're like a fan now.

[Mary]

Okay? I feel sorry for him. Last night he was on Watch what Happens Live and I feel like he was very nervous. You know, he kept twisting back and forth in the chair. He was definitely like on the hot seat. He hates confrontation. He's not good at a reunion. But I know the man he is because I met him on that boat. Courtney. He knows how to work a room. He knows how to make you feel special. He went around and said goodbye to everyone, gave them a hug, a little, a little kiss on the cheek. He is a genuine nice guy and I love that he Sent us a ton of pictures and at this point, I'm rooting for him. That is my pick.

[Courtney]

Have you washed your face since?

[Mary]

No. This corner right here.

[Courtney]

Yeah.

[Mary]

Never washed it again.

[Courtney]

You put just like a sticker over it when you wash your. The rest of your face. Like, preserve this West Wilson area. It's on the west side of her face. She is giddy over this man. Now. I agree. I think west is my overall choice as well. Mostly because, as you guys know, my favorite thing about this competition is the participation. Like you said, he sent us a ton of photos. Madison has sent us photos of Brett, but Brett doesn't have social media, so he's not present on it. Andy has partially participated. He did say that it was sad that he was in the final four, and I'm like, okay, well, you're a one seed, sir. And then Rob, right. He probably hasn't seen a single DM from us. So I do think based off of that. And I also. I love Wes too. I have washed my face since, but that's neither here nor there. I'm rooting for him. I think they are all one seat, so all the one seats made it to the final four. So I will also be happy with whoever takes the crown. I think they're all worthy of it. But personally, I prefer a participant.

[Mary]

Andy only won by like 2% yesterday. He really squeaked by. But, yeah, just my final vote is for West. We'll see who makes it to the championship. And it's exciting. It's been a fun. A fun time to be alive. International Women's Month. Shout out to Whitner. I just feel like he had a blast with the competition. So Seth marks, Mr. Congeniality. It's just been fun overall, and I. I just think the production value was priceless.

[Courtney]

I was going to say we need, like, superlatives for, like, the end of it. It's like you have Mr. Congeniality of Seth Marks. You have, like, best newbie within, like, Whitner. Like, KJ was up there, you know, like, maybe like most robbed. There are so many different categories that I think that there could be. I am sad it's coming to an end, but it's like, I'm not gonna cry because it's over. I'm going to smile because it happened.

[Mary]

That was said by Tyler Perry.

[Courtney]

Dr. Seuss. I know. Say it.

[Mary]

Forget it. Write it, Regret it.

[Courtney]

Yes. Dorinda Medley. Tyler Perry. When it came to west on Watch what happens Live, he had a lot of nervous energy. I think he Maybe had a few cocktails before he was out there. He also hates confrontation. You mentioned he's always bad at a reunion. I think he's really concerned about who he potentially could offend with an answer. Because they bring up the Amanda west rumor and, like, Andy gives it to him like, all you have to say is no. All you have to say is no. And he kind of got in his head and he was mumbling a little bit, and he's like, amanda's single and she's a very important person. Me. And these rumors are out there. It's like all he had to say was no, but because it wasn't a straight up no. The fandom has gone wild.

[Mary]

I know. I just. I just can't imagine him doing this just to Sierra, to Kyle. Him and Kyle have hung out since. It would be so shocking. It would be bigger than scandal if you asked me.

[Courtney]

Really? It'd be bigger than scandal for you?

[Mary]

It would be. I guess they were separated at the time. But no, it didn't happen, you guys. It didn't happen.

[Courtney]

Don't make her think it.

[Mary]

Why are we putting this out in the universe? It didn't happen. Okay?

[Courtney]

We're not putting it out in the universe. It was put out there. We're just commenting on it.

[Mary]

Don't trust him.

[Courtney]

I'm so sorry you're getting so upset. I think you're worried about his chances to be the champ. So you are. You want a clean slate? Let's Men in Black, everyone, right now. Okay, so also on Watch what happens live. So we talked about this on our patreon too, but Paige and Hannah are going to have a Netflix sitcom that's being produced by Amy Poehler. Andy comments on it as his, like, mazel of the day on Watch what happens live and then, like, roasts Craig.

[Mary]

Oh, I've just been saying for months now he's the ultimate gaslighter and biggest villain on Bravo tv. And I just feel like the rest of the world's finally seen it's.

[Courtney]

Well, so Andy said, you know, it's time for my mazel of the day. And it goes to the news that our friends Paige desorbo and Hannah Burner will be starring and co writing their own comedy series for Netflix, produced by Amy Poehler. And then he says, I have a feeling Craig is going to need his magician to make him some pretend to be happy for you spray.

[Mary]

Oh, wow. Oh, my.

[Courtney]

Oh, my.

[Mary]

There's also nothing worse than a breakup you can't get away from. They've been Broken up for quite some time now. And it just is always talking about it. That's brutal, you know, because it's the one that got away for him.

[Courtney]

Well, they spent every single day together. Mary. Which we'll get into it when we talk about the reunion. I was like, I'd like to see the calendar. Mostly because I can see summer house filming when. When Craig wasn't there and Paige was. So the everyday thing is, I would say, an exaggeration.

[Mary]

He's a summer storyteller.

[Courtney]

I know. And he does tell some great stories. I. I agree, though, for him is just to see her continue to do well has to kill him. I actually feel bad for him in that regard. Like, it has to be horrible to be in the spotlight and then to see your ex partner doing all these great things with and not that he, like, doesn't want her to do great, but almost like I'm not even a part of that anymore. Like, that would have been a thing we would celebrate together. And I don't think he thinks this way, but was I holding her back from Achie? All of this success, look how much she's done since.

[Mary]

And my, how he's fallen from grace. I remember there was this time where people were saying, like, Andy was going to retire and, like, Craig Conover was going to take over. Like, I. That was like a rumor a long time ago. But think about that now. Like, that would never be a rumor now.

[Courtney]

Well, people are like, how did Craig win March Madness? And I'm like, when the winners won their year, how high up they were within the echelon of Bravo. Like, people like, of course Craig won. Like, oh, God, this must be, like, rigged. It's like, no, because two years ago he was dating Paige and everybody loved him.

[Mary]

Well, and he was always the bridesmaid, never the bride. He was always the runner up.

[Courtney]

Totally. But I'm just saying, like, he. Because he was just seen in such a better life, and then, you know, obviously the breakup has, like, affected him and now we're seeing a different side of him. I. I honestly do feel bad for him.

[Mary]

I don't feel bad for him.

[Courtney]

But I. Well, I.

[Mary]

And also someone I also don't feel bad for is Kyle Cook. I got a little nervous yesterday, you guys.

[Courtney]

Oh, you guys. I got a text. Was I too soft on Kyle? No. You are just so desensitized to Kyle Cook. His actions, things you have seen that while it was a bad episode for him, you're like, this is history repeating itself.

[Mary]

We've seen this behavior, nothing shocks me about the guy. There's this TikTok going around. He's at a fan's house. He's, like, wasted. It's like four or five o'clock in the morning. I'm like, you guys, we see this on Summer House. Like, this is no different. He does his DJ set, He has a great time. He wants to decompress after he meets fans, they're saying, hey, we're having an after party. He goes, and that's how he falls asleep at people's houses. Like, nothing is shocking to me about this man.

[Courtney]

He is someone who does not end a party. Like, he's always looking for the next part of the party. I mean, you watch it on Summer House. He's never like, hey, guys, I think we should go to bed. It's like, everyone's gone to bed. So then Kyle has to go to bed. You know, we always see him drunk, by himself, eating in the kitchen because there's nobody else, because everyone's asleep at that point. Kyle is someone who has massive fomo. Like, someone else I know that's on this podcast right now, FOMO Fear of Missing Out. But it's FOMOMO with Mary of Fear of Mary's Missing Out.

[Mary]

I mean, I have to say, I suffer from two diseases, lateness and fomo. It's hard.

[Courtney]

It's tough. It's tough. And which is funny, because you would think being late would also, you know, exaggerate your fomo. Like, oh, you're late, but it's more the end of the night.

[Mary]

That's so true. That's actually super interesting to think about. If I'm 20 minutes late, that just means the party is going 20 minutes longer.

[Courtney]

Well, I was just gonna say the party doesn't start till you walk in. I think Kessa sings that, and I think that song is written about you. Now, the party don't start till I walk in.

[Mary]

Michael's birthday is on Kesha's birthday, and he, like, loves Kesha, which is so silly.

[Courtney]

He loves Ke$ haz.

[Mary]

They have the same birthday. He loves her.

[Courtney]

Has Michael gone to a Kesha concert, by the way? Kesha is going on tour, and Erika Jane is one of her openers. I think you guys need to go for the joint love of Kesha and Bravo.

[Mary]

You know what? I'll consider it. If it's in San Francisco, we've got

[Courtney]

to look it up. I mean, imagine surprising Michael with Kesha tickets.

[Mary]

Wait, so did Kyle Richards, like, introduce Kesha and Erica? Is that the Connection.

[Courtney]

Remember when she was at Mighty Hoopla? Kesha was on the bill there. I think she's met Kesha through Kyle, but I think that they've been at a couple festivals together, too, and probably have, like, connected that way.

[Mary]

Okay, got it.

[Courtney]

I'd assume Kyle was part of the ignition of the relationship. Okay.

[Mary]

I love this.

[Courtney]

Yeah. And I think Michael would love the show.

[Mary]

Six Degrees of Separation of Bravo.

[Courtney]

Always love that. Let's talk some Bachelorette Secret Lives, because even though the cameras aren't up, the drama is constantly going. What do you think about this new Bachelorette rumor?

[Mary]

So they're saying, maura from the Traitors. I would love to see it. I. I feel bad for abc. I mean, they had all these advertisers.

[Courtney]

You feel bad for ABC who could have done their due diligence.

[Mary]

Okay, that's a valid point. But I'm very hopeful that someone like Maura will got the opportunity and we get kind of this, like, live reality show of her dating. I would definitely watch it. I. I think I would

[Courtney]

if it was a live version. Maybe it changes the formula a little bit and we go more Love Island. Maura doesn't live in the US So.

[Mary]

Yeah. But I feel like she's LA girly now.

[Courtney]

I guess she's already done a show like that with Love Island. I just. Actually, I kind of think this is a little beneath her to be the Bachelorette, really.

[Mary]

I feel like the Bachelorette can make a household name.

[Courtney]

I guess I just mean in the sense of it's going. Her going back to a love show. Like, she's already done that with Love island and then taken experiences from that and taken that into, like, hosting and doing other shows. Not beneath her is not the right word. So apologies for that. I mean, more so. I think it's backtracking on her because she's already done a similar show to

[Mary]

this, but it's abc. I mean, a Sunday night, and we

[Courtney]

feel bad for them.

[Mary]

No, I. I. No, I don't anymore.

[Courtney]

I love More. So I'd probably watch it. It's just like, take your Birkin and go.

[Mary]

I just don't think they'll be able to pull this off in. In the time frame because it would literally have to start next Sunday.

[Courtney]

Yeah, and there's rumors, too, because. And I think it was Abby Bonadies that had posted something about there's some Dancing with the Stars or something like that. And Derek Hough had commented on it, kind of like, stay tuned. And I do know that there's a Dancing with the Stars, Finding the Next pro that's being hosted by Robert Irwin. And I wonder if that.

[Mary]

Oh, no, I did not hear about. I can't. I can't watch it.

[Courtney]

Why do you hate him so much?

[Mary]

I told you, I know that Micah.

[Courtney]

Micah and Robert Irwin, two unproblematic people. But maybe that would go in place as they would do that and you know, you might miss a couple of weeks of Bachelorette. They're not going to go. The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. I. If we're going to move Jen affleck to the OC1 is the Utah one. Are they all kind of dead on arrival now?

[Mary]

No, not at all. Let's talk about Jesse on Call Her Daddy. This is the summary. I watched Jordy McRae's TikTok. So they basically had already decided to divorce and they hadn't told their kids. And he blindsided her by like going to the media. He tried to get that restraining order, which didn't happen because he basically didn't want her to go on podcasts telling her side of the story. She has like screenshots of escort services from season one. She found out about it two weeks before she met Marciano. There's like some rumblings of orgy parties. They only communicate now via a third party. Like she changed her number. He would like totally shame her her about her body and stuff like that. And he's obviously like very traditional in the gender roles, which is so funny because he's literally living in the house that she bought.

[Courtney]

He's a stay at home dad. Right.

[Mary]

He does not work. She assumes that she is gonna have to like pay him out alimony and child support. He was using the Marciano stuff as blackmail. There was also some hairy Josie. Mm. There was something there. And he was trying to use that against her. He just sounds like very evil. And I just hope the best for Jesse and I. I feel bad for her. Like she talks a little bit about the surgeries and stuff. She just like has very low self esteem and I'm just excited for her to start a new journey alone and I hope the best for her.

[Courtney]

So it sounds like he tried to do a restraining order so that she couldn't go on Call her daddy and tell the story.

[Mary]

Right.

[Courtney]

That was like what happened and it got denied because it wasn't an emergency thing.

[Mary]

Also, that that's not a restraining order. That a restraining order is to get people to not come by you on your property. It's like a physical thing. I don't understand how that would.

[Courtney]

I wonder if there is a kind of cease and desist restraining order about not being able to talk on somebody.

[Mary]

Maybe cease and desist, but not restraining order.

[Courtney]

I don't know. Not a lawyer, but it just feels, like, good for Jesse. I feel kind of bad for the kids because I'm like, we're really putting it all out there. Like, this is crazy, but also way to tell her story outside of the kid part of it. Like, way to tell your story because, like, expose him. He was clearly so jealous. He wanted to be the leader of dad talk. He was blackmailing her with all that stuff. She's like, you could, like, ruin my life. It's like, where at some point, like, this is supposed to be your partner. I saw a little clip that was like, for five years, for five years, there wasn't a day we did not fight. At one point, he was trying to blackmail me with the Marciano stuff, and I was kind of chasing after him to grab his phone, and he brought it out to try to record me and be like, oh, what are you going to do? Same thing Taylor did. So, like, him and Dakota are clearly in cahoots about manipulating and being toxic and all of this. And also we. One of our friends texted and was like, TMZ confirmed that they didn't get the video from the courts, meaning that someone sold it to them. And it's like, who has that video? So I am definitely in the camp that Dakota and Jordan are working together, because it was like, you know, Jordan was the one who filed, and all of a sudden it was on tmz. I saw somebody else's like, tick tock. That's friends with Jesse. That was like, when your friend finds out about her divorce on tmz and it's like a video of Jesse just on the phone.

[Mary]

I'm obsessed with mom talk. I just feel like they give us so much content and it ha. The story happens so fast. There's a lot going on.

[Courtney]

A lot, a lot going on. And there's no cameras. There's no cameras. Like, what the hell is happening here? It's crazy. Something's always going on. It's like, by the time tomorrow rolls around, we'll have 50 pieces of new information. I mean, I'm sure there's things that we aren't even saying. Okay, we actually think this is a great part two of the reunion. Let's take a break, come back and get into it.

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Promote your business with podcast ads on Acast. Get started at go.acast.com advertise. Okay, they basically, like, have breaked for lunch and Craig is freaking the out. Like, he is just like this. My world is crumbling. And the way that he comes back for lunch and talks to Andy and he's like, I was doing so well all season. I'm like, does Craig think in his head he had a good season?

[Courtney]

He thinks until Mexico that he had a great season. And I'm telling you, this is why I am convinced he was blindsided. Reality is a different reality for him than the actual reality of the world. And in his mind, I think when it comes down to everything that's happened, that he was like, I was provoked. I was provoked. I was provoked. The one time I basically got out over my seat to escalate was in Mexico. And I think because the repercussions and the consequences for Mexico, which was basically the end of Charlie and Craig, is why he thinks that he was so good. Because, oh, it's just the same with, like the literary party with Austin's dinner. You know, all the things that had happened was, well, that's just Austin and I.

[Mary]

No, he has such tunnel vision and has such high regards for himself. And you can tell he multiple times, like, like, tried to get Charlie to say something different. He's like whispering things to her when he has a chance. It was very strange.

[Courtney]

Mexico. It's not fair for you to mention Mexico. That's not really cool for you to mention that Mexico is why things ended. It's like, that's exactly why it ended was Mexico.

[Mary]

It also made me question Charlie because at first I think she was interested in Craig. But now kind of seeing it play back and knowing she's with Justin, I'm like, did she play up the Craig thing to have more of a storyline on the show or be a main character or do you think she was genuinely interested in him?

[Courtney]

I don't think she was as calculated. I think her mom was more calculated and I think she had influence from her mom. I mean, right, though, like, her mom's like, ah. So we yelled, is that bad Charlie? Oh, he had one bad day. That's probably why he thinks he's. He's like, I talked to Charlie's mom. She said I had a good season.

[Mary]

I. I did. I just. This. The way that it was played back. I just felt like Charlie might have been talking to him to be relevant.

[Courtney]

I don't. Okay.

[Mary]

And I never thought that the whole season.

[Courtney]

I don't think she love bombed him. I think in Charleston, there It's like a 4 to 1 ratio of girls to guys. I think that there are not a lot of guys in Charleston, which is why they have their pick of the litter, if you will, of who they end up with. And I think for her was like, there was. It's twofold. This guy has interested me and also the star of the show is interested in me. And I do want to explore this. And I think Craig is a good looking guy.

[Mary]

That's that as well.

[Courtney]

Yeah, yeah. Like, and so does Sally. Like, you know, we want Craig's looks and Austin's personality, but it's like, I think that there's something about the enigma of this person liking me and then being like, okay, maybe I'll try to pursue this because this guy is interested. Like, there's just such a blurred line of the whole thing. I don't think she was love bombing him. I think she wanted to feel it out. I think she liked getting attention from him. And I think she was like, okay, could this be something? And then, okay, it's a storyline. But also, I don't feel like it was that much of a storyline because she was trying to keep it so private while she figured figured it all out.

[Mary]

I know it's. It's very. It kind of like messed with my head a little bit because originally I thought Sal. I thought Charlie was just a fun, nice girl. She was interested in Craig. Then she realizes it's not what it is. But then for something happened in this reunion that I like didn't completely trust her anymore. And I felt like she was trying to be relevant for the show. I don't think she loved Bomb Tim at all. I also. Cell phones are so dangerous because I feel like they had a connection over the cell phone, but not in person. Like, they love texting each other. They love FaceTiming. They love checking in throughout the day. But they only went on two dates, so Craig thought their relationship was much deeper than what was actually happening. And there was a lot of talks of what's going to be, what's going to be, but it wasn't really.

[Courtney]

Well. And I think on the show was like, mexico is crazy. I'm not interested. And then, you know, they end the season and he's like, oh, just friends. And she like, just friends. And I feel like he probably maybe texted her and said like, hey, the show is over. Like, maybe we could try. And so she was like, okay, maybe I'll give that a chance. And she was also starting to talk to Justin and at the end of the day was like, you know what? I can't move past it. I think I'm really into Justin. He's giving me the attention. And, like, he has the qualities. I'm not sure why, but he has the qualities I'm looking for in a partner. And she ends up going with that. And so it wasn't that she, like, like, led Craig on, but she was like, I'm still talking to Craig. The Vegas thing was interesting, too, because then I felt like Austin was kind of like an ex lover here, too, where Austin had to tell Craig, oh, you're talking to Charlie. She's come into the bar with this guy being like, I'm in love.

[Mary]

See, I just question her now.

[Courtney]

Like, what was the relationship with Craig at that point? Or is it one of Craig's stories that. Well, we were still talking, but, like, was she talking to Craig as a friend and he thought maybe there was still something more because they were never really friends.

[Mary]

Well, and he said that we were never going to be friends.

[Courtney]

There's three sides. His side, her side, and the truth.

[Mary]

Right. I just questioned her more than I thought I would. And I definitely would love to see her with Justin on Southern Hospitality more. I don't think she makes sense in this group any longer. And I would love to see her facial reactions more.

[Courtney]

You want more of those? Yes, they're all the same.

[Mary]

She's got one look, guys.

[Courtney]

It's one look. I. I felt bad for Charlie. I also was like, God, Mary really had the read on her from the beginning of the season because you're like, she's not made for reality tv. And the way that she was handling herself in the reunion. I wanted her to just shut it down, just put it all out there. Like, she stayed relatively quiet and then, like, left the stage and cr. And went and cried and was like, I'm just overwhelmed. You know, Sally checks her, and I'm like, I don't even know why we're crying right now. The fact that we're crying over this is kind of crazy because if anything, I'm like, craig looks bad. Like, Craig, you think I was love bombing you. We had one kiss.

[Mary]

I also love that she was the one to call it quits with Craig.

[Courtney]

Like, I think that's a problem for him totally.

[Mary]

But I'm like, you own that girl. You look great in this scenario. Like, you are ending it with Craig Conover that Sally's been trying to get him all season. You know, she couldn't, so she moved on to Austin. Like, he was the biggest star at the beginning of the season. And now I think he does look like the villain. But for her to say no and walk away from him, I think shows her true character.

[Courtney]

I also wanted to know. I was like. Because Craig's like, you were FaceTiming me from your friend's wedding. Like, well, Craig, though, did you dial the number and did she answer? So those are, like, the details I want to know because I think that they.

[Mary]

There's.

[Courtney]

I, I. I think both of them are blurring it and, like, lying a tad or omitting some parts of the truth. So that's why I'm like, where are we going with this? I still am Team Charlie on the whole thing. I don't think she, like, led him on. I think she was also being nice, and I think it's hard when it's the star of the show.

[Mary]

Right? I mean, Craig is definitely trying to make Charlie look bad. And I do believe they only talked one time after Mexico. I believe they were genuinely. Probably went out on two dates that were actually all filmed, but they had this, like, relationship over the phone that Craig thought too far, and she was just talking to a lot of guys on the side and then ended up with Justin.

[Courtney]

I. I think that's pretty accurate. And I think.

[Mary]

Summary, guys.

[Courtney]

Yeah, I. I think Craig being rejected is a PTSD thing for him because Paige ended it. I think Naomi ended it with him because I don't actually think that Craig ends relationships. But. But there's something about when the woman is the one that's the decision maker that he's like, hold on, hold on. What do you mean? And it's really triggering for him because I think him saying the things on the side. It's unfair for you to say. Mexico is like, him being like, you should be defending me here.

[Mary]

No, he's so controlling. I feel like he said so much stuff to Paige that we'll never know.

[Courtney]

I wish we would. Honestly, though, maybe in their new show, they'll write a character named Greg.

[Mary]

Oh, my God.

[Courtney]

And maybe Greg will be somebody from her past that just won't go away.

[Mary]

What does he sell? It's not pillows.

[Courtney]

There's something.

[Mary]

There's definitely something there. I love that idea.

[Courtney]

I'm not giving the idea. Maybe they already have the idea. I don't want to be a part of it. I'm no Nick Viall over here. I don't. No, I'm not giving that idea. That's just something I was wondering if they had the idea of. Okay, let's talk about Venita.

[Mary]

Well, I have a question.

[Courtney]

Okay, Please ask it.

[Mary]

Are Sally and Venita going to be friends next season?

[Courtney]

I am somewhat unclear on why they aren't. Like, I think Vanita has a big grudge here. I found it interesting when it was, like, Sally's birthday or, like, they're hanging out and she tells Sally, like, you can't post about me. Is it because of, like, the timing of the show and it's for, like, show storylines that you don't want to be seen with her? Or, like, why is it that you don't want pictures with her but you still want to hang out with her? What's going on there?

[Mary]

I felt like Andy jumped in, too, because Vanita's like, you don't see all the comments. But then she also says, I'm never on social media during the season. Right? And she's like, I, I, you know, I feel stupid and people are, you know, not standing up for me, and they're saying I was played like a fool. Like, and she says, watch it back.

[Courtney]

And I was just so confused. Examples. And she's not giving anything. And it's like, yeah, people are probably rudely in your DMs being like, Sally's not a friend. If you go back to summer houses. Amanda's saying that with her relationship with Kyle, right? Like, the fans are telling me, why am I with them? Why am I with him? And the things get in your head. But like you said, Andy jumps in is like, but you're smarter than that. Like, you should be going to the source and not what random people on the Internet are saying.

[Mary]

And I also feel like Sally's the type of person that would sweep it under the rug and she could move forward from this situation. And then it made me think, is Vanita, like, jealous of Austin?

[Courtney]

In what way? Like Sally spending her time with him?

[Mary]

Yes.

[Courtney]

Oh, I don't know. I think Vanita loves hard, and I think when she has a friendship, she puts her all into it. And maybe it's kind of like an Austin and Craig thing where I joke that it's like this lovers quarrel that they're having because they care so much. And I'm like, I think Vanita just thought at the end of the day, if it came down to this random guy and her, that Sally would choose her friendship. And she learned really fast that Sally's for Sally, and Sally is a little desperado.

[Mary]

No, Sally's not desperate. She's for Austin. She has her eyes on the prize place, he's marriage.

[Courtney]

She's not even gonna eat euro me because she's worried about Austin eating her ass out later. I was like, what? What?

[Mary]

I love her so much. I just do.

[Courtney]

It's like, two. That was like, too much. But I think, like, Vanita is just looking for the friend she is. And a lot of times in friendships, you're like, like, Sally is my best friend. But, like, Sally doesn't consider Vanita her best friend. And soita throws all of this energy in because. And she expects the same back and doesn't get that. And learning that in real time is so hard. And so now she puts up a guard and she's making these little kind of snide comments. Like when Sally's like, oh, yeah, your mom. Oh, yeah, that's my girl. She's like, well, she doesn't know the full story. And it's like, okay, so. So we're either gonna move on or you guys are gonna be enemies. You have to decide one way or the other.

[Mary]

I really like Vanita, and I don't think she had a good season, and I think she could have recovered at the reunion, and she still wasn't able to move forward. And it also breaks my heart to hear about the Carl situation because basically he went to people magazine and said the distance an issue, and that's what. How she found out about that issue and a People magazine issue. It's like.

[Courtney]

It's like when Wes did that to Sierra and the New York Times publications. One text, guys. One text.

[Mary]

We were in that article, guys. No big deal.

[Courtney]

Oh, yeah. I don't.

[Mary]

Yeah.

[Courtney]

Is that the same article? Now I feel bad.

[Mary]

Oh. Or was that the follow up?

[Courtney]

No, there were two articles. I don't think that. I think we were just in the.

[Mary]

The original.

[Courtney]

Unclear.

[Mary]

Sorry, guys. I just, like, anytime I can bring up that I was in the New York Times, I try to drop it.

[Courtney]

Ms. Mahoney and Ms. Frayne, they were like, can we get your ages? And we're like, no. Yeah, that was a bummer about Carl because we were looking for the update, too. I feel bad for Vanita because I do feel like she's on an island there and nobody has her back as strong as they have someone else's back. And she even says too is like, I did not open up to anybody the way that I opened up to Sally. And so then when, like, Sally's not there, she's like. And as a friend, I'm trying to steer Sally in the right direction. Like, well, there's your mistake. You cannot change anybody. You can give your peace and then move on from it. You can decide what your relationship and your boundaries are from there based on the advice you give and then the decisions they make. But you also can't get upset and be like, told you so, told you so, told you so. Because at the end of the day, she doesn't. Sally doesn't care. She's gonna go for what she wants regardless. Austin, I just think in general, and the same way that Madison says about Craig at the end of it is like, you guys kind of have to kind of accept that this is who he is. And if you don't want to accept that that's who he is, then don't be his friend.

[Mary]

Okay, let's take a break because I want to talk about Team Madison and Team Craig.

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[Mary]

I'm they're on the same team. Like I I was so confused by that. I do not know why Madison is Team Craig. I feel like she supported him so much at this reunion. What was the deal with that?

[Courtney]

I Madison plays the game smart and at the end of the day everybody had an issue with Craig, meaning that they all had a storyline. I think Madison also sees two as the way and again, not excusing Craig's behavior, but the poking and prodding. Right. Like Vanita even says in Mexico that yeah, she said that thing about Austin because she wanted it to bother Craig. Which is what we said when it happened too. Right. Obviously she's inferring that about Craig. And it's like everyone that keeps poking and prodding, of course he's going to react. Not saying it's the right thing to do, but he does that. It did not to me seem that crazy because she was like if I was in that van, I would have tried to de escalate the situation. It got to a point where it was like, I wouldn't even let you get to that point.

[Mary]

I think it's very interesting that Craig did not watch the season. Madison says so Jack of him. That's your therapy to watch the season back and see how you can change. But I didn't like Madison saying we should accept him for who he is. I. I thought that was bullshit. But I do think what you're saying. She is smart. She knows how to play the game.

[Courtney]

But I think it's accept him for who he is and then decide if you want to be his friend. Not accept him and be him, be an like. Because Austin's like, oh, except my friend's an. And I think she's saying, no, you want him to change, to be this person you want him to be in order to be your friend. He's been working on himself for three years. And Whitner's like, haven't seen the change, bud. Like, let us know when that happens. But if you don't want to accept who Craig is at that point, then do not be his friend, because he, at the end of the day, really isn't changing. Because in his head, he thinks he has. He's the same old Craig, though. And if you don't like Courtney, then don't be a friend.

[Mary]

Courtney. He was deprived of water and food.

[Courtney]

Andy was so pissed because he's like, you are not going to call out production in this reality reckoning. No, it went, like, deeper than that. Like, he was getting pissed. Like, do not try to say that the show did not give you food or water. They even play a clip of it to let the audience know. We do not. We do not just supply them alcohol with no food to put them in this sort of thing. We will not be sued over this.

[Mary]

The rolling of the footage of the quesadillas of the tequila tasting with the food pairing, I was cackling, the red

[Courtney]

sauce is so good with the chicken. No, but he was like, you are not going to say that we put you in these terrible circumstances and that you are forced to do this. Like, Andy was like, do not try to bring this house down.

[Mary]

It was so funny. I mean, Craig does say at the end, he's like, well, you know, I bottle it all up. And I was just feeling really rejected by Charlie and was blaming the situation in the environment and I need to have the tools to deal with this. And he says sorry to everyone and he will try his hard to never let it happen again. Which just gives me the opening that it's gonna happen again.

[Courtney]

Of course. Of course it will. He's perfectly imperfect. Imperfectly perfect. Okay? He's a work in progress, and we've never heard about that on any of these shows of any of these men and Ramona Singer being works in progress. Okay? They are doing their best, and that's all that we can ask is not to do the best, do their best best. And if Craig thinks he's done his best, well, then we have to accept him for that and then decide if you want to be his friend in the state that he is in and the person who he is, you get to decide.

[Mary]

Now, do you think that Austin and Craig can move forward? What is going to happen with this show?

[Courtney]

They have to, because the show doesn't work with all three of them on the outskirts. Like, the three of them of Shep, Austin and Craig are the show. I think they all, to be honest and especially Craig and Austin need to accept some truths about themselves. Austin needs to accept the fact that he did not like having a girlfriend he wanted to around, and he was jealous of Craig being in that position.

[Mary]

Ow, ow, ow. This is tough love, Courtney.

[Courtney]

But then Craig also needs to accept is like, I am an. I do go off the deep end. And you know what? I actually was jealous that Austin was in the place that I wanted to be.

[Mary]

Narcissist.

[Courtney]

He's an empath. He got special spray. But I'm just saying, like, they both need to come to terms with the fact of, hey, you know what? I think we were both projecting onto each other what the other had, and I think we can move forward. I think Craig also needs to be like, I am someone who parties. I do want to party. I do want to have the hot tub. And instead of, like, embellishing the truth or his version of the truth, has to also understand that he's wrong sometimes.

[Mary]

Wait, speaking of the hot tub, did you notice when they talked about Corey and Sally in the hot tub and

[Courtney]

then going off, they definitely hooked up.

[Mary]

Something happened there. And then that. That brings up the thing that Craig brought Charlie to the sewing room, and he said, you can kiss me if you want. And she was like, no, thanks.

[Courtney]

Then Andy's like, shouldn't you be like, can I kiss you? Craig, though, being like, okay, but honestly, I don't have game, Which.

[Mary]

That is endearing. That is endearing. They have to move forward, those two. They have to go do ayahuasca in Costa Rica with Shep. Thank God they have Shep to bring this bridge together. I really hope we get to see one more season of them. The three boys come together. Because I need, like, a happy ending in the end of this. I don't know how much longer this show can go on, to be honest.

[Courtney]

Yeah, it's. It is interesting because I was going to ask of the cast, do you want to see any differences? And it's like the show is a three of them. Sally has been a great addition because, like, she's unburdened by the shackles of shame. But, like, it's for the rest of us, like, Charlie has to go. Unfortunately, there's just no storyline for her and I think she fits better over in Southern hospitality. Anyways.

[Mary]

Agreed. That's a check mark for me. Huh? Tell me what else.

[Courtney]

Madison, though, does make a good point. She's like, actually, this is the first time ever in Southern charm history that the girls are actually friends, which is actually I. I disagree because I think past seasons, Cameron and Chelsea and Naomi were all friends, but like, this is the first time they're friends. So I'm like, okay, then I need you guys to do a lot of off camera bonding then and get to a point of where you guys are an alliance for each other. Because right now I feel like the alliances aren't girls. It's like whoever the girls are going to attach themselves of the guys on the cast.

[Mary]

I also feel like Madison said to us, I will have one hot girl summer. I will do one show, not pregnant. If I'm back on XC season, like,

[Courtney]

I am going to put the show before my family one last time to really ruffle some feathers because then I'm going back into the hive. I will stir up one more time. And if you want me to either bring the boys together, I can do that, or I could tear them apart. Just let me know the path you want me to take.

[Mary]

Actually, it would be kind of funny if the three boys went on the trip and ma with Madison as well as like the mediator of some sort of words.

[Courtney]

The ayahuasca trip.

[Mary]

Any trip. I. I do want to go to the ayahuasca place because I think it was so life changing for Sheppy.

[Courtney]

But

[Mary]

yeah, there's something there. I would love to see Rod tie the knot on television. I think that would be super fun. I love the idea of Madison officiating.

[Courtney]

I love that Austin thought he would be the officiant. He's like, Rod, be honest. He's like Madison. He's like, okay. She's like Tom Ford. Call me.

[Mary]

I love Molly so much. I hope we can hang on to her. I think she is zany and kooky. I'd love to see more about her relationship. I and I want Vanita to get in the hot tub. You know, I think, I think we got one more season in us. The. The group has to come together. They weren't able to in Mexico, but I'm hopeful.

[Courtney]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Benita and Craig seem to make progress. I mean, when it comes down to the Vanita stuff with Craig, I don't even think we got to, like the crux of it, but it's like Vanita didn't know what she was talking about, and she wasn't ever friends with Paige. And Vanita never at one point says, I am friends with Paige. And I still don't think what she said was that crazy.

[Mary]

There's something more between Vanita and Craig that we're not. Not. They are not breaking the fourth wall for.

[Courtney]

Do they need to kiss?

[Mary]

Maybe there's something more to that story, and I wish they would just say it.

[Courtney]

At the end of the day, the entire cast, minus Vanita, chose Craig over Paige. Right. And so if Craig wants to get Paige completely out of his life, in a way, he wants Vanita off the show. He doesn't want whatever the connection is to Paige, so he doesn't have to talk about Paige on the show. Because after this season, if we talk about Paige, Paige, it's cuckoo bananas. We cannot talk about her. It's been long enough. She's not even on Bravo anymore. It has to be done. And we can't let the reason that Vanita and Craig aren't friends be because of Paige, because that can't be a storyline.

[Mary]

No, we have to stop talking about her.

[Courtney]

Vanita is such a nice person that I think as soon as someone apologizes to her, she takes it for their word and she's like, okay, I'm gonna do my best to be the best friend I can be to them. Them. Like, think about over the summers. Like, she still was nice to Craig's face, even though she didn't need to be granted because he's probably. This is his show.

[Mary]

I didn't like the way they were throwing back at her. Like, he saved your life in the pool.

[Courtney]

What? She owe her the rest of her life to be nice to him because he did that. Thank you for doing that. I do not owe you my life.

[Mary]

No, no.

[Courtney]

She's allowed to have an opinion on things just because Craig jumped in the pool. And that was very kind of him to do and very nice, and he probably did really save her life. She's not indebted to him forever.

[Mary]

No, not at all.

[Courtney]

No. But I hope that they can move on. So basically, we want everyone on the cast to come back except for Charlie, and that's just a show transfer.

[Mary]

I had a weird, weird thought come across my mind and this is kind of wild.

[Courtney]

Share it.

[Mary]

Okay. So you know how Sally says that Austin is going to be like, a great father? He's going to be a great husband. Okay. Then I started thinking about Katherine Dennis and, like, how she got pregnant with Thomas Ravenel. And then I was like, oh, my

[Courtney]

God, what if Mary. Don't finish the thought. Do not finish the thought. No, do not finish the thought.

[Mary]

No, it crossed my mind.

[Courtney]

Don't finish.

[Mary]

Is it wild?

[Courtney]

Yes.

[Mary]

Yes.

[Courtney]

Okay.

[Mary]

Will Austin ever seriously date Sally nor. Oh, Courtney, you're killing me.

[Courtney]

Do you think so?

[Mary]

Okay, I think, I guess if you finish your thought.

[Courtney]

You think maybe because of that?

[Mary]

No, no, no. I think if she pulls back and says, like, I'm not going to talk to you anymore. I have feelings for you. I, I. You don't want anything more. I think if she can gain some power back, it's just like he's, she's too easy of a target for him. Like, he knows he can get her whenever he wants.

[Courtney]

It's like Ashley I and Jared of Bachelor to now Real Housewives of Rhode island fame, where she was so about, like, about him. Finally decided she was going to do better and get away from him, and they said no, and now they're married with kids.

[Mary]

I'm hoping. Helpful.

[Courtney]

I do believe that's the exception and not the rule.

[Mary]

Or we could go the cat Catherine Dennis route.

[Courtney]

Nope. What's up?

[Mary]

Okay.

[Courtney]

See you tomorrow.

[Mary]

See you tomorrow.

[Courtney]

Foreign.

[Brooke Devard]

Devard from Naked Beauty. Join me each week for unfiltered discussion about beauty trends, self care, journeys, wellness tips, and the products we absolutely love and cannot get enough of. If you are a skincare obsessive and you spend 20 plus minutes on your skincare routine, this. This podcast is for you. Or if you're a newbie at the beginning of your skincare journey, you'll love this podcast as well. Because we go so much deeper than beauty. I talk to incredible and inspiring people from across industries about their relationship with beauty. You'll also hear from skincare experts. We break down lots of myths in the beauty industry. If this sounds like your thing, search for naked beauty on your podcast app and listen along. I hope you'll join us.

[Mary]

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[Mary]

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