By Order of the Faithfuls: From Laguna Beach to Scotland w/ Stephen Colletti

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge

Episode: By Order of the Faithfuls: From Laguna Beach to Scotland w/ Stephen Colletti
Date: January 23, 2026
Guest: Stephen Colletti
Special Segment Hosts: Wells Adams & Dolores Catania (By Order of the Faithfuls)
Note: Focus on content post-commercials (start ~[02:20])

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Episode Overview

This episode features Stephen Colletti—known originally for MTV’s Laguna Beach and later One Tree Hill, now a key contestant on Season 4 of The Traitors. The discussion navigates Stephen’s TV evolution, experiences on The Traitors, reality TV culture, and behind-the-scenes insights, with hosts Wells Adams and Dolores Catania probing both the personal and strategic sides of reality game play.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Updates and Keeping Life Private

• Stephen announces his first child is on the way ([03:22])
  • Staying low-key: No public gender reveal planned.
  • "We just want to make sure, you know, Alex is doing well... focus on the health... it’s our first go,” - Stephen ([04:07]).
• Private wedding ethos: Immediate family, civil ceremony, pizza after, then celebrated in France ([05:00]).
• Dolores relates, inspired to keep her own upcoming wedding small and private ([05:40]).

2. Parenting & Reality TV

• Would Stephen let his child do reality TV? ([06:11])
  • Advises having "a five-year, ten-year plan... the business doesn't have time for [idleness]... you gotta be a hustler." ([06:18])
  • "You're going to get in the washing machine that is Hollywood and it'll spit you out when it wants to." - Stephen ([06:18])

3. Stephen’s Career: From Reality to Scripted Television

• Preference: Enjoys "scripted" more than reality but values both ([08:29]).
• On Laguna Beach casting: Senior year, ready not to care about high school opinions, but faced real skepticism from friends ([09:28]).
  • Noted the unique blend of opportunity and challenge as reality stars crossed into the acting world ([10:00]).

Notable Quote

“Early on, I had a lot given to me because I was on Laguna Beach. That was not deserved. We were plucked from complete obscurity and thrown on the show into MTV when MTV was near its peak… But I’m proud to say... I’ve grinded through it… It’s been good to me.”
—Stephen ([10:43])

4. Returning to Reality: Why The Traitors?

• Assured he’d never do another personal-life-centered reality show after MTV’s editing left him “scarred,” but competition reality felt different and compelling ([11:34]).

5. Dynamics in The Traitors: Housewife Energy

• Meeting the Housewives: “Fully intimidated. Are you kidding me? ...These are reality TV vets. Big personalities.” ([14:04])
• On respect for Housewives and reality stars who are often looked down on by trained actors ([15:11]).

Notable Quote

“People would say it’s like this is the deathbed of the art… Even those jobs, I’ve… read about the schedules for Housewives… it’s a full-time job.”
—Stephen ([15:11])

6. Traitors Game Talk: Strategy, Personalities & Group Dynamics

• Why faithful? Did he want to be a traitor?

  • "I wanted to be a Faithful. I did not want to go and try to lie the whole time and have to carry… the weight." ([20:52])
  • Was open to being recruited as a traitor but felt he’d make it further as a Faithful ([21:35]).

• Strategy:

  • Stand out in missions: “If there’s one thing the Traitors and Faithfuls can agree on... it’s getting that prize fund as high as possible and they’re going to like the people that are good at the mission.” ([22:09])
  • Observational at first, let louder voices “bury themselves” ([23:36]).

• Michael Rapaport’s role

  • Michael’s overbearing persona and eating habits become highlight moments ([25:49]).
  • “He was being so loud... you can’t be a traitor because you’d just be the worst traitor.” ([29:10])

• Voting and Emotional Fallout

  • Difficult to vote out Faithfuls; self-doubt grows with each misfire ([35:10]).
  • “It was emotional for me… the Tiffany vote was emotional for me… pulls at the heartstrings” ([35:51]).

• Advice for future contestants

  • Listen, observe early, speak up at the right time: “Make sure you speak up… show the Faithfuls you are trying...” ([38:28]).

Notable Quotes

“There’s so many different curveballs, you have to be ready in real time to react to them... you could play the game 100 times and have 100 different outcomes.”
—Stephen ([37:41])

7. Editing, Airtime, and Scenes the Audience Misses

• Not all drama or fun makes it to air; often huge chunks left out, especially lengthy confrontations at the roundtable ([53:37]).
• Stephen shares relief that some embarrassing moments didn't make the cut, but recalls a tense roundtable where laughter surprisingly broke the tension ([56:45]).

8. Speculation and Insider Baseball

• Who’s getting screen-time, who isn’t? Johnny’s fun personality isn’t as visible as expected—possible sign he lasts longer ([50:28]).
• Strategy tip: Sometimes, early episode screen time means early exit ([52:42]).

9. Looking Forward: The Faithfuls' Comeback

• Tease for the rest of the season: “The Traitors have had their way… but they can’t kick ass forever. The Faithfuls are coming for them.” ([57:18])

• Would Stephen return for an All-Star season?

  • “100%. The game was so much fun. I had an absolute blast… Be fun to go back and see if we ran it back, how would I do?” ([57:43])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:22] – Stephen’s baby/pregnancy news
• [05:00] – Low-key wedding and being private
• [06:11] – Advice for would-be reality TV children
• [08:29] – Preference for scripted vs. reality
• [14:04] – Meeting/intimidation by Housewives
• [20:52] – Choosing to be a Faithful, not a Traitor
• [22:09] – Strategy entering The Traitors
• [23:36] – How observation factored into his game
• [25:49] – Michael Rapaport moments & roundtable drama
• [29:10] – Voting out loud/annoying Faithfuls
• [35:10] – Emotional cost of mis-voting
• [38:28] – Game advice for future players
• [50:28] – On who gets less screen time vs. game length
• [56:45] – What happened off-camera/not shown
• [57:18] – Teasing Faithfuls’ comeback
• [57:43] – Would he return for an All-Stars edition?

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Memorable Quotes

• “You’re going to get in the washing machine that is Hollywood and it’ll spit you out when it wants to. Not when you choose to or how you choose to.” —Stephen Colletti ([06:18])
• “People would say it’s like this is the deathbed of the art…” —Stephen Colletti ([15:11])
• “I wanted to go and try to lie… I wasn’t sure how I’d handle the weight of being a trader.” —Stephen Colletti ([20:52])
• “There’s no single way…this is the strategy that will win you the game. Depending on the personalities…the outcome always changes.” —Stephen Colletti ([37:41])
• “The Traitors have had their way with the Faithfuls so far…They can’t kick ass forever. The Faithfuls are coming for them.” —Stephen Colletti ([57:18])

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The Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is candid, encouraging, at times irreverent but nostalgic, as all three—Wells, Dolores, and Stephen—relate as reality show veterans. Stephen is grounded and self-aware, keenly dissecting both the mechanics and emotions underlying competition reality TV. Whether you’re a Traitors superfan or enjoy thoughtful industry insight, this episode is an inside look at strategy, fame, and self-preservation in the modern reality TV gauntlet.

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Transcript

[Commercial Narrator]

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[Stephen Clay]

This is special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[Narrator (The Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.

The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nancy Glass]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.

[Stephen Clay]

I was a monster.

[Nancy Glass]

Listen to Burden of guilt season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Commercial Narrator]

Not every sale happens at the register. Before AT&T business Wireless, checking out customers on our mobile POS systems took too long. Basically a staring contest where everyone loses.

[Stephen Clay]

It's crazy what people say during an awkward silence.

[Commercial Narrator]

Now transactions are done before the silence takes hold.

[Stephen Clay]

That means I can focus on the task at hand and make an extra sail or two.

[Commercial Narrator]

Sometimes I do miss the bonding time.

[Wells Adams]

Sometimes AT T Business Wireless connecting changes everything. Welcome in all you faithfuls and traders for another episode of By Order of the Faithfuls. Wells Adams alongside Dolores Catania today. And we're about to be joined by someone who's been on TV for a very long time. Born and raised In Orange County, California, Stephen Clay was just 18 years old when he was cast on Laguna beach, the real Orange county back in 2004. Then in 2007, he did something that's very, very hard to do. Go from reality TV to scripted television. He was on One Tree Hill on the CW for a bunch of seasons and of course now he is starring in season four of the Traders this year and he is a faithful. All right, welcome to the show. Stephen, right off the bat, we have to congratulate you on you and wife's first pregnancy. Congratulations.

[Stephen Clay]

I appreciate that. Thank you, man. We're super thrilled.

[Dolores Catania]

That's so the genetics on that child. I cannot wait to see what this comes out like.

[Stephen Clay]

Too kind. Too kind.

[Dolores Catania]

Was it a traitor's baby?

[Stephen Clay]

Yeah. You know what I think coming out of the castle, you know, after being locked up for so long. Yeah, we were pretty hyped up. We were excited to, to see our.

[Dolores Catania]

See each other. Yeah, I bet. So, you know, magic happens after you get home.

[Stephen Clay]

Yeah. You know, this makes the heart grow fonder, of course, and it sure did there.

[Dolores Catania]

Oh, I'm glad to hear it.

[Wells Adams]

Do you know what you're having yet?

[Stephen Clay]

I do, I do. We're not sharing it, but I do know and yeah, we're pretty excited.

[Dolores Catania]

Are you going to do a gender reveal?

[Stephen Clay]

We're not going to do a gender reveal. We're just kind of, we're keeping it close for now. And it's always been, you know, we just want to make sure, you know, Alex is doing well in the basement, baby's doing well, of course, kind of focus on the health and, and it's our first go, so make sure we're, you know, hitting the benchmarks that we need to, and, and, and being responsible parents and getting ready for this. And, and so, as you know, we were happy to share the news and, and, and get it out there, but as far as having a big party or gender reveal or anything like that, we're, we're a little more low key, so we're not going to do anything like that.

[Dolores Catania]

You know, the truth is people are doing less and less of that.

[Stephen Clay]

You know, we, we also had a very low key ceremony for our marriage, and that was kind of the plan all along. It was, it was, the first instinct was like, let's have, you know, should we just go get hitched? Like, all right, we've got to have some family there. And it kind of grew into something bigger. And then we brought it back to what it originally was, was like, you know, what like we want to do, which just like is going to make this special for her. And I, and, and not have to feel like we're running around the whole time, you know, having to engage with everybody at the party. We want to be able to have our fun. And so yeah, we really toned it down and, and it was, it was, it was an amazing day. It was, it was a beautiful day. We just had our immediate family. We did a civil ceremony, we went and got pizza afterwards and it was perfect.

[Dolores Catania]

I love that. So no wedding at all? There was no big. Sarah, like no big ceremony?

[Stephen Clay]

No. When we jetted off to, to France the next day and we celebrated there. So yeah, it was, it was perfect how it all worked out.

[Wells Adams]

Oh God, I wish I had.

[Dolores Catania]

We spent so much freaking money getting ideas. You know what? Well, this is because I'm recently engaged and. Thank you. So you know, being in the public eye as you know, nothing's really private and I'm more of a private person and I get silly, like Wells could tell you I get silly about being like affectionate in front of people or even the thought of it. So I want to kind of have it close to home too. So I, that just gave me a little inspo. So thank you on that.

[Stephen Clay]

Of course.

[Wells Adams]

If, if, if your kid grows up and wants to be on tv, what will be your advice to them?

[Stephen Clay]

Oh wow, great question. I would just want to make sure that it was something that they really wanted to do. Something that they were very passionate about. And how to plan, like what's your five year plan? What's your ten year plan? What's your plan B? What's your plan C? Because you know, I think that, look, if you want to go out and just for one experience, go on a show like Traders and just that's going to be it. And that's your plan. That, that's great. But you know, it's, it's tough out there and I think that if you're going into it, like, oh, I don't know, like I just kind of want to like, you know, I'm going to be in entertainment and we'll see where it goes. And not really have a game plan. Like it's too cutthroat out there. You guys know, like this is, it's, you know, the business doesn't have time for that and you gotta be a hustler, you gotta be ready to get after it and you gotta have a good plan and stick to your guns. Cause you're gonna get in the washing machine that is Hollywood and you know it'll spit you out when it wants to. Not when you choose to or how you choose to. So I would just wanna make sure that there's a plan there and there's a passion behind it so that there's a real drive. And then other than that, like, hey, if there's a one off where it's like, I really. Dad, I just, like, I'm going to go be a lawyer, but first I need to go do trainers. What can I say there? You know, it's like, well, I get it. So I get it. You're going for it.

[Dolores Catania]

This child's going to be so normal. I can't. You know, when my son asked to become an actor, he came home from football practice. He wasn't built at the time like the rest of the kids. And I was like, go do your whole. Get the. Out of my. That's what I said to him. However, a month later, we were filming a movie that nothing ever came out of in la because I did let him see for himself.

[Stephen Clay]

Sure. Though the old, you know, filming a movie that nothing comes from it. No one ever necessarily sees it or the idea of what you read in a script and then eventually what made the screen and if it ever even made it to anybody's screen. Oh, it's a fun. It's a fun world.

[Dolores Catania]

It was a good lesson for him. Yeah, exactly.

[Wells Adams]

You live in a very unique world. Very few people have been able to be reality stars and then unscripted stars. Unscripted, scripted and scripted. Do you like one better than the other?

[Stephen Clay]

I like the. The scripted. You know, I even. Going on Traders was a big move for me, but I always wanted to work in entertainment. I liked creative writing, I liked performing. I wasn't going to tell anybody that in high school, middle school, because that would be, in my eyes at the time, social suicide. And I was like, I want to have fun and, and, you know, go to parties and mingle with friends. And so I wasn't going to, you know, do musical theater during that time. But the interesting thing is when MTV came around with Laguna beach, it was that moment where you're in, you know, your second semester of high school, you're done with it. Right. You're ready to move on. And I didn't want to conform to the trends or I wasn't necessarily as worried what everyone was thinking in my high school at that point. So while in freshman year, if it was freshman year, I would have never done it. But senior year, it was time to move on. And so I took the leap knowing that all my guy friends are going to be like, what are you doing, dude? That's so lame. I was like, no, you don't understand. Like, I. There.

[Dolores Catania]

Did they do that? Did they say that to you?

[Stephen Clay]

Oh, yeah. I remember. I remind my buddy this all the time. One of my first scenes, sitting outside of a cafe with Lauren here in Laguna beach, and one of my buddies, a couple buddies drive by, and they just roll down the windows, and they're just yelling stuff that I can't repeat. And I was so. Already so nervous that I was taking it, that I was like, oh, my gosh, here we go. But at the end of the day, again, you know, I had a plan. There's things I wanted to do. And, um, you know, I thought, honestly, it would be more on the sports side. I thought, you know, I grew up watching SportsCenter when you had Dan Patrick and Keith Olberman, and they would. The way that they would talk about the highlights and, you know, they would make it such an entertaining show. You know, something like that appealed to me, and that's why I transitioned right into hosting with mtv. But I took some acting classes as well, and I'd done a little bit of that in middle school, and when I started to take it seriously, I just kind of caught the bug, and I was like, all right, there's some things I want to do here. So, thankfully, it's been a good run so far. It's been good to me. It's had its ups and downs, for sure. Early on, I had a lot given to me because I was on Laguna Beach. That was not deserved. We were plucked from complete obscurity and thrown on the show into MTV when MTV was near its peak. And I'm proud to say that all these years later, I've been around the business and ridden all sorts of highs and lows and grinded through it, you know, and to sit here now, and I have a second season of an independent show that my partner, James Lafferty and I shot together. We got it on Hulu to, you know, be able to even be relevant in a way where someone would consider me to be on Traders, I think is super special. I feel really grateful for that. And Traders was the show I had to come back and do. You know, there's been a lot of them that have been offered over the years, and this one was the one.

[Dolores Catania]

Is there any other ones that you would do? Like, I was looking at Special Forces. I think you could do it. You're very fit and athletic, and I'm just like. But there are people that are fit and athletic on it and they didn't not do well. And I mean, there's just a few other shows. Is there any other ones in your site?

[Stephen Clay]

You know, after, after doing Traders, you would think that I was, I probably thought I signed up for Special Forces based on my just like mission aggressiveness. Like, okay, I'm here to tackle these missions. This is where I'm gonna get into it then, this game. But yeah, you know, I always said that, look, the MTV kind of personal life and sensationalizing it with everything that was, again, we were kids, that was going on in my life at that time, it really scared me away for a long time. And I probably, you know, you psychologically probably look back and be like, all right, maybe there's some moves here of why he's dipping in a scripted and hiding behind some characters rather than continuing to be, you know, yourself. And I, you know, I just, I wasn't going to do anything that was gonna be around my personal life because I saw the way MTV twisted it and why there was plenty of truth, that they had their story based in truth, but the way that they could twist it and, and that it just scarred me for a while. So I think when the focus is on something like a competition and not who you're, who you are personally, necessarily, which is another thing that, that drew me to the show. That's where I could see myself, you know, doing another show. I'm a competitive person, athletic, and as you see, you know, trying to tackle these missions. So if there's something, it's like an amazing race, you know, Special Forces, that's

[Dolores Catania]

definitely something I would consider that I want to do more. I love Traders so much. I want to do Traders again. I'm hoping I, I miss it. It's hard to watch because I miss it so much.

[Stephen Clay]

Yeah. Yeah. I hope they run it back with, with a bunch of people or.

[Dolores Catania]

Oh, I hope so.

[Stephen Clay]

Maybe there's. Yeah, there's. I mean, it's, it's interesting going out there. You know, obviously the build up to the first day and, and, and waiting. You know, you're, you're kind of locked away for a few days. You've got everything taken away from me. You know, I'm an active person. So I was getting a little stir crazy.

[Dolores Catania]

Oh, yeah.

[Stephen Clay]

Once the game got going and the momentum picked up, I was having a lot of fun.

[Dolores Catania]

Being in that room is rough.

[Stephen Clay]

It is.

[Dolores Catania]

It is rough. I'm just curious because you come from such a. Kind of a different thing than the housewives what did you think when you met the housewives? What were they like to you? They're a little crazy. They're wild, they're pretty intense. And I know you're like so nice. So I'm curious what you think of everyone.

[Stephen Clay]

Fully intimidated. Are you kidding me? I was like, man, I'm out of my league here. These, these are reality TV vets. These are big personalities. I'm just this kid from Laguna beach that was on a reality show 20 years ago popping in here. And so I was, yeah, I, I went in there very intimidated and also impressed. I knew that there were going to be some big personalities. I'm not familiar with the housewives going in. I know a little bit. And my wife coached me up. But once I got in there and met them, I was like, damn. Like, they came to play and they play their roles very, very well. So I have, I already had respect for what they do. And I know, I mean, that's the other thing. It's like people, when I was getting started in reality, people were looking down on it like crazy, right?

[Dolores Catania]

They did. Especially trained actors. They were like, how are you getting more camera time? Like, how are you getting these, you know, to be on TV then? We're not. And I'm a trained actor. I went to school for it. I'm from here, I'm from there, and I've been doing this all my life. But yet you're on tv. They hated us for it.

[Stephen Clay]

Yeah, I mean, it was like. People would say it's like this is the deathbed of the art, you know, and trying to. I remember that stepping into acting classes when I was, you know, coming off of this reality show, it was, it was a bit of a leap back then, but I, to me, you know. Yeah, look, at the end of the day, even those jobs, I've, you know, I've read about the schedules for the housewives. It's, it's, it's crazy. It's a full time job and for anybody to look down on it is ridiculous. So again, I had respect already going in, but then meeting them and just seeing the way that they handle their roles and play their, you know, play the version of themselves that they play is impressive. And so I really enjoyed them and getting to know, I mean, look, look at our traders. You know, you've got Lisa, you've got Candace. I mean, what great personalities to put up in the turret. And Candace is, as she says, she's main character energy. And Lisa is just an icon. So. And the juxtaposition between them and Rob. Right. It's just. It's very well done.

[Narrator (Lucy Letby Podcast)]

In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief.

[Stephen Clay]

The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.

[Narrator (Lucy Letby Podcast)]

Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict. A villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby.

[Dolores Catania]

Lucy Letby has been found guilty.

[Narrator (Lucy Letby Podcast)]

But what if we didn't get the whole story?

[Stephen Clay]

The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses.

[Narrator (Lucy Letby Podcast)]

I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast the Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was.

[Jill Winterstein]

No voicing of any skepticism or doubt.

[Stephen Clay]

It'll cause so much harm at every

[Narrator (The Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

single level of the British establishment of this is wrong.

[Narrator (Lucy Letby Podcast)]

Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jill Winterstein]

Hi, this is Joe Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast where we talk about astrology, natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a

[Stephen Clay]

mini driver, the Irish traveler said when I was 16. You're going to have a terrible time with men.

[Jill Winterstein]

Actor, storyteller and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives and I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are Misunderstood a Sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

[Stephen Clay]

He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just in embracing of the isness of it all.

[Jill Winterstein]

If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity and real life, this episode is a must. Listen Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcast.

[Narrator (The Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.

[Stephen Clay]

This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[Narrator (The Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

This MSS officer has no idea the US Government is onto him, but the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast.

[Stephen Clay]

I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer. No doubt, no question of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable.

[Narrator (The Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nancy Glass]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumprite became the victim of a random crime.

[Stephen Clay]

He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground.

[Nancy Glass]

He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years.

[Dolores Catania]

I'm like, lord, this can't be real.

[Stephen Clay]

I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth.

[Nancy Glass]

For 22 years, only two people knew the truth until a confession changed everything.

[Stephen Clay]

I was a monster.

[Nancy Glass]

Listen to Burden of guilt season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Wells Adams]

Let's talk about the show. You know, if I was on this season, you would. Would be spiking my spidey sense a little bit because you have been on reality TV before. But then also, you are an amazing actor who can pretend to be something else. In my mind, I'd be like, you'd be perfect to be a trader. Did you want to be a trader or did you always want to be a faithful?

[Stephen Clay]

Yeah, you know, I. There was. It was tough because I wanted to be a faithful. I wanted to play the game as a faithful. I did not want to go and try to lie the whole time and have to carry, I guess, the weight. I wasn't sure exactly how I would handle the weight of. Of being a trader. As I was already feeling again, I talked a little bit about being intimidated, stepping on to that set with all the reality vets and not having done reality in a while. So I really wanted to play the games of faithful. And it's funny, looking back, there was always a little bit. It was like, you know what? Being a trader would be really fun. I definitely saw that side of it, but I was like, you know what? I think I'm best served being a faithful. And I felt like that's how I can make it the furthest. So that's what I went with. I did say early on, I was like, look, I want to make this clear. Like, I can handle being a trader if someone's going to recruit me to be a trader.

[Wells Adams]

Yeah. Let me ask you this. What was your strategy going into the show? Because if you were like, okay, I'm going to be a faithful. Was it to lay low? Was it to create alliances? Was it to be, you know, boisterous? What was your strategy coming in?

[Stephen Clay]

Yeah, you know, obviously once you sign up to do the show, you're trying to consume, you know, past players experiences and just learn as much about the game. You know, I really kind of dove into it and was like, all right, how can I make it as far as possible? You know, I want to make it to the end. I want to win. You know, I didn't, I didn't go there to be a loud voice in the room to try to fight for camera time or anything like that. I went there, you know, basically to challenge myself and see. See how I can handle the situation. And so I wanted to go in and know that I can excel in missions. So I felt like if there's one thing that the Traders and Faithfuls can agree on, obviously it's getting that prize fund as high as possible and they're going to like the people that are good at the mission. So to me, even though that's not necessarily everyone's part of, like a favorite part of the game, I saw that as a spot where I can excel and play to my strength. And so we're going to speak up there, be a loud voice outside, which is during the missions, so that it's memorable. And then the Traders, when they're thinking about who they need to ax, hopefully they're going to have that thought. Well, he's really good at handling the mission, so we should probably keep him around, which did pay off, which I was so happy to see. At the end of episode four, Rob's putting my name up. And then Lisa and Candace were like, he's a mission guy, we should keep him around. So.

[Dolores Catania]

And I think you're cute, too. Stop. They wanted you there for a few reasons. I'd say you were very nice, but

[Stephen Clay]

I also, yeah, I also was not. I wanted to sit back and, and, and just try to learn who everybody was. I wanted to just have a moment with everybody. Wasn't, you know, going to jump to any conclusions on anybody. And in doing that, it was going to be more observing than trying to rally the troops. You know, I was engaging in conversations with everybody. It's interesting, you know, of course, how much is shot, all your different conversations and even moments that are, you know, that people I'm sure would like to know happened that aren't in the show. You know, it would be interesting to see like a reel of, of some of the scenes, right? It's like they, they. They have all sorts of stuff. So I just wanted to sit back and observe more people. I knew that there was going to be big personalities, so let them do their thing. And you know what? It seemed like early on in the game, everyone's looking for just something to pin on somebody that's not themselves. There is the all right, united in the faithful front, right? We're finding the traitors, but there's also self preservation. And so in that, you know, sitting back and letting the louder voices in the room kind of, you know, bury themselves in some cases. That was. That was a part of my strategy.

[Wells Adams]

Well, let's talk about the loudest voice in the room and them burying themselves in Michael Rappaport.

[Stephen Clay]

You know what?

[Dolores Catania]

The best looking, the smartest, the dopest, fake dopest ever. So I spoke to Michael before he left because, you know, you do. You call someone, and that had been there before, and I said, mike, just be quiet. Like, try. You're very smart. He's smart. He clocked a few of the traitors right out of the box, right? And he couldn't. He just couldn't do it. And he played himself, which is fine to do. I mean, you did too, right? You went in there playing yourself. And I knew it was going to hurt him. It was good. It's not, but that was good for you, and it was good for the game. And actually, it was good tv. We loved watching Michael unravel at the table.

[Stephen Clay]

Incredibly entertaining. And when he's not at the table, if he's at the dinner table, just the way he's eating his food is fascinating to people, as you can see.

[Wells Adams]

Okay, we gotta talk about that talk. Is it always like that? Is he always shoveling food down his gullet?

[Stephen Clay]

Oh, yeah, he was. I mean, I think you. It's in at least two episodes. Oh, I know. But yeah, it was so funny. I remember a couple times, you know, you're in the breakfast room there, even if you're coming back from a mission and you're gathering lunch, and he's just, you know, shoveling stuff on a plate, and he's just like. He's talking to some of the camera guys. He's like, all right, which one of you. Which one is going to follow me and watch me eat? It's like, you didn't think going to film school, this is what you're going to be doing. You know, 10 years later, he's filming some schmuck from oh, my God. Shovel food in his mouth. So I think he knew what he was doing. And look, I think he also. That is what he does. Right. And I think he was happy to

[Dolores Catania]

show that, Knowing that he's unapologetic about who he is and we love him for it, so. But did you think that when he said that to Colton that he was doing it in a malicious way? I didn't see it like that, no.

[Stephen Clay]

You know, it took me a second to. To truly pick up because there was. There's so much going back and forth.

[Dolores Catania]

Right.

[Stephen Clay]

And I remember when he. When he said that, it felt like a low blow, But I knew he didn't just come out of nowhere with saying it. Right. He obviously wanted to call him out for keeping a secret. So he's, you know, I think he's. He was able to say whatever he felt like he wanted to say in that moment. I think he. He knew that he was maybe pushing a button a little bit with him as they were getting pretty heated. But, yeah, look, I think it got very, very emotional in there. And a lot of people were speaking back to Michael as. As he was just talking and talking and talking. And that was the. The tough thing about that roundtable. I mean, he. He. We would try to, you know, there's a lot of heat on Ron. You know, we obviously, Tiffany had already left, but we were trying to work through different people's, you know, facts and pieces of evidence. And then Michael would just kind of take it and be like, you know what? I know we're all talking about this, but we should be looking at this guy. Yeah, there was a lot of jam. Jam and Michael, they had a lot of back and forth as well. I. I feel like, look, Michael knows what he's doing. As you're saying, he's a smart. He's a smart guy.

[Dolores Catania]

He is smart. Yeah.

[Stephen Clay]

I kind of thought he was ready to get out of the game, to be honest with you, because he had such a. He was being so loud and taking over a lot of conversations and being. And being, you know, Michael, even though. And he was talking about his wife, was like, hey, just. Just make sure you just try to stay quiet. You know this. And he just. He wasn't going to do that. He was going to be true to himself. And I think that's what he did. But I remember he talked about, you know, game seven of the NBA championship was about to go, about to happen right around that day. And he's like. He's like, we got to watch the game. How are we going to watch the game. And I felt like at that roundtable, the way he just started just unloading and was not holding anything back and was happy to push buttons with everybody. He was already pushing everyone's buttons. Now he was like, all right. I don't feel like I really.

[Dolores Catania]

It was like suicide.

[Stephen Clay]

I'm going to just take it to the next step. And he did that. And I was like, all right. It's almost like he wants out of this game at this point. Maybe he wanted to go watch game seven.

[Dolores Catania]

So I don't think anyone even thought he was a traitor. They just wanted him out.

[Stephen Clay]

Yeah. You know? Yeah. I think that he was so boisterous at a point where this. He can't be a traitor because he would just be the worst traitor. By leaning so hard and being so loud, you're drawing so much attention to yourself where you are in fact annoying people and people want you out for that reason alone. So, yeah, a lot of people, they weren't necessarily thinking he was a traitor.

[Wells Adams]

Yeah. I mean, and you guys have. The faithfuls at least have taken a little bit of criticism of knowing that someone's really not a traitor and still voting them out just because they were unpopular or annoying. I mean, it happened in our season. Sandoval was doing the exact same thing. He was very, he was very loud. He was, he was trying to get Dolores. He was also trying to get Chrishell out a lot. And he was just kind of distracting everybody. And so obviously traders love that because that's distracting everyone away from what everyone's doing. You're keeping the eye, your eye off the ball. But the truth of the matter is is that you guys all voted him out knowing that you were. No, you weren't a step closer to getting a traitor.

[Stephen Clay]

Now, frustrating part, I mean, I, I stuck with my vote for Ron, you know, because we had the most evidence on Ron and, and, and it's, and it was going Ron's way. It was just like the first roundtable. We should have had a trader on the first roundtable. I don't know if you guys know this, but we, we were all the way that the votes were swinging for Donna. As you saw the second round table, it went heavily against her. Yeah, it should have gone that way, the first round table, but here comes Ron out of. Who was pretty quiet all of a sudden. He, he, he speaks up and he's, he's got some hard facts and, and to his credit, they're legitimate. I mean, as we said. Yeah. Seeing that play out and seeing what he saw, I feel really bad for Ron. And, I mean, he. He saw evidence and he went with it. So it was tough that he brought it up there at the roundtable and not beforehand so we could talk about it, because he knew everyone was going and he was spending some time. Again, this is kind of what hurt Donna. She started to get a little more quiet in a corner a bit. And not overly engaging, even if somebody engages you, because it's one thing, obviously, to be sitting quiet in a corner, but when you start engaging a conversation. And so Ron and her were kind of hanging out. So the fact that we all were on Donna and then Ron was with her, it put on Ron's back. But, yeah, I think going into that one, we knew we had to kind of clear the table of Ron. And Michael was not going to let that happen. He was going to whip that camera right back to Michael, be like, hey, guys, I'm here. I may or may not want to go watch Game seven. So, yeah, let's go down guns blazing.

[Wells Adams]

But, you know, you know, Ron, he, I feel like, changed a lot of minds in this most recent roundtable, and he. He employed a really good tactic of being like, I'm going to go around and tell everyone what I like about them because this is gonna be the last time I speak to them. And then all of a sudden, everyone changed and was like, I don't think. I don't think he is a traitor. In that moment, were you still on Ron or were you believing that he was actually faithful?

[Stephen Clay]

Yeah, it was tough. It was one of those moments where I, you know, having swung towards Porsche in that first roundtable really affected my strategy the rest of the game because. And then also kind of towards Tiffany, because I was going to go for Ron, but then stuff with Tiffany came up. I had a little something that happened with her where I was like, okay, you know what? She's giving me a little bit suspicion. So I moved off of Ron, and now it's like, okay, Portia, that was a fail. Tiffany fail. I was like, look, just stick to your guns. Don't let other people sway you. Stick with the evidence in your mind that you feel like is the strongest and go from there. So I did. And with Ron, there is that time after you've written their name down, and as, you know, as they're going around and they're speaking to everybody, or even after you. You give your explanation of why you voted for them, that they look you in the eye and they say something. And I felt like that's when I would get a real honest read. So I did. Before he got up there, I was like, oh, no, I think, I think Ron very well is a faithful. And there was suspicion before, but again, at that point he had the most heat and we had to clear it to move on to the next thing because this, we are doing so many favors for the traders so far in this game. They are kicking our ass. Right. We're just the infighting. And I mean, it's, yeah, it's, it's bad. So I was like, look, I'm just going to go. I'm clear this with Ron. And and then as we, as it was great. His exit going around and saying a little bit about everybody. And then also I don't know if they show because I actually haven't seen it yet. But when he, when he stands up there and just his speech there was, was amazing too. He thanked everybody and the crew in the background talked about the experience. He's. He's a sweetheart. Ron was, was awesome and it was, it was tough to see him go, but he had to, unfortunately.

[Wells Adams]

You guys keep talking in that roundtable of like, well, we have to vote out Ron so we can at least close this chapter and get clarity. What was the clarity that you were going to find out if Ron ended up being faithful?

[Stephen Clay]

That's a good question. Yeah, I think that the evidence. Okay. Those that were really pressing on Ron, those that were really gunning for him, we could probably raise some suspicion on them now that that voting record. And then you could also look at the people that were not going to vote for Ron and we're saying, you look, I don't, I know he's got all the, there's, there's a long list of things that have happened at this point, but like, I really do believe that he's a faithful. So I think those folks, we can also deduce are probably faithfuls because if you're a trader, you're most likely happy to see Ron go and continue to, to keep, you know, having that they're faithful, you know, be axed. So, yeah, I think it's, it's that voting record ultimately, and that does become, you know, a big part of the show, as you guys know.

[Dolores Catania]

Oh, for, for sure. But, you know, it does weigh heavy on you when you vote out of faithful. Right. As you're saying, like with Portia and Tiffany. It doesn't. You don't.

[Wells Adams]

Only Michael, though.

[Dolores Catania]

No, not Michael. I said Portia and Tiffany. But you don't only feel bad Especially Tiffany was heartbreaking. But then you kind of, like, lose a little confidence in yourself and the other people that actually really gunned for them. So is there any point where, like, your emotions took over? Because mine did many times in the game that. Where you said, like, I'm done. I just want to go home. I don't want to hurt another person. I don't want to vote out another person. This is killing me.

[Stephen Clay]

You know, the Tiffany vote was emotional for me, and I was surprised how quickly the game got emotional. Part of that was just the way I had conversations with her privately. Also the way she was speaking at the round table, obviously very eloquent. And her personal story, you know, that. That just pulls at the heartstrings. And so that was. That was tough. I think what happens is there's just kind of a competitive thing with me. It was like, all right, we need to lock in. Like, all right, what happened here? Like, what was wrong? Where did we go wrong with Tiffany? How can we not do that the next time? Who had some. Some good bits about maybe it's not her and why, and maybe we can lean on them a little bit and see what they're thinking, because maybe they're seeing. Seeing something that we aren't as far as their instincts.

[Dolores Catania]

But Candace really, although she was a traitor, really went for her, like, tried to save her, right?

[Stephen Clay]

Yeah. Yeah. I know that would throw you off 100%. And that's the crazy part. It's. With this game, it is absolute madness. It is such a roller coaster. And as soon as you think you have a thread of a solid strategy or play and maybe you're thinking a couple steps ahead, that could unravel so fast. And it's a monkey wrench. It really is. And. And so you have to stay on your toes constantly. Constantly. And I learned that, you know, early on in the game through these roundtables was like, okay, here's my plan. And then just all the. Just. There's so many different curveballs, and you have to be ready to. In real time to react to them. And, yeah, that's a very. It's a very fascinating part of the game. There's no single way of, like, okay, this is the strategy that will win you the game. Right. It doesn't matter what you do. You have to. Depending on the personalities that are there, depending on what happens day to day, depending on what you say and who you say it to at certain times, you know, you could play the game, you know, 100 times. You have 100 different outcomes.

[Dolores Catania]

There's really no strategy to be high. Like, so if somebody's coming into the game, the next time it airs, somebody's going to call you and they're going to say, what's your best advice for me?

[Wells Adams]

No one called me.

[Stephen Clay]

I'm here. You're telling me that Michael called you. I'm like, I was so scared by NBC and they didn't scare me per se, but I just was like. I was like, I'm going to just not talk to anybody. I'm going to just step into this. And so I didn't speak to anybody going into the game that I was reading all of what you guys.

[Dolores Catania]

I called people. I.

[Stephen Clay]

And I wish I had more of those contacts, but now, yeah, I recommend anybody who is going to do the show, feel free to reach out. I will happily engage there. And don't be too scared of the powers that be.

[Dolores Catania]

As far as you're not going to tell on them.

[Stephen Clay]

Yeah, yeah, but look, I think that you have to be able to, early on in the game, sit back a little bit and observe and watch exactly who's acting which way, who's being a loud voice in the room, who is rallying the troops and why. I think if you can observe that and then choose very wisely when you want to speak up and do speak up, you don't want to be. Don't be the person that sits back and doesn't do anything and is super quiet the whole time. You need to speak up. Make sure you speak up at the round tables. Make sure you're showing the faithfuls that you are trying to figure out who the traitors are.

[Narrator (The Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.

[Stephen Clay]

This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[Narrator (The Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

This MSS officer has no idea the US Government is onto him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast?

[Stephen Clay]

I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable.

[Narrator (The Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jill Winterstein]

Hi, this is Jill Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast where we talk about astrology, natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life and I just sat down with a mini

[Stephen Clay]

driver, the Irish traveler said when I was 16. You're going to have a terrible time with men.

[Jill Winterstein]

Actor, storyteller and unapologetic Aquarian visionary, Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives and I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are Misunderstood A Sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

[Stephen Clay]

He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all.

[Jill Winterstein]

If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity and real life, this episode is a must Listen Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcast.

[Narrator (Lucy Letby Podcast)]

In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief.

[Stephen Clay]

The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.

[Narrator (Lucy Letby Podcast)]

Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict. A villain. A nurse named Lucy Letby.

[Dolores Catania]

Lucy Letby has been found guilty.

[Narrator (Lucy Letby Podcast)]

But what if we didn't get the whole story?

[Stephen Clay]

The moment you look at the whole picture of the case collapses.

[Narrator (Lucy Letby Podcast)]

I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast the Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was.

[Jill Winterstein]

No voicing of any such skepticism or doubt.

[Stephen Clay]

It'll cause so much harm at every

[Narrator (The Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

single level of the British establishment of this is wrong.

[Narrator (Lucy Letby Podcast)]

Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nancy Glass]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumprite became the victim of a random crime.

[Stephen Clay]

He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground.

[Nancy Glass]

He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years.

[Stephen Clay]

I'm like, lord, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth.

[Nancy Glass]

For 22 years, only two people knew the truth. Until a confession changed everything.

[Stephen Clay]

I was a monster.

[Nancy Glass]

Listen to Burden of guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Wells Adams]

I wanna I wanna talk to you about Colton because there does seem to be a little bit of a double standard between him and Ron. They both did the exact same thing, but everyone went after Ron instead of going after Colton because, you know, why is that? Yeah, Colton was wrong about Tiffany. Very, very boisterous about it. He was wrong about Michael Rappaport as well. But somehow all of the. The kind of like the shame and blame went on Tehran. But in this most recent roundtable, all of a sudden it turns and you have Ron up, you've got Colton up, and then you've got Lisa, who was not on anyone's radar except for colton. And then he was able to skew that entire room to get very, very close to getting Lisa out. So much so that a fellow trader in Rob votes for Lisa. In that moment, are you thinking that Colton could be a traitor or that Lisa could be a traitor, or is it just like we got to know about Ron?

[Stephen Clay]

I felt. I felt pretty confident that Colton was a faithful. I think that you can look at the voting record and be suspicious. But it did seem like he was very earnest in how he wanted to play the game. He wanted to figure out who the traitors were. As soon as. I mean, he was the first one. As soon as we got somebody, it was like, all right, who's next? Right away. And his instincts were lining up with a lot of hours. Right. And mine personally, you know, when he spoke up about Lisa, it was something. I was like, yep, there was something that I've had there. And so I think when you've got. Even though he's swinging and missing just like Ron did, there's big swings and it's big miss. The end of the day, at least Colton is. He's kind of got his track record of really trying, you know, earnestly to actually figure it out. And Ron kind of came out of left field and just started presenting this evidence at the round table. And meanwhile, somebody else was clearly in the hot seat. And so it was like, all right, is he distracting us? So I think that there's a difference there. It's kind of what I talked about earlier about a little bit of the strategy. It's like you don't want to sit back too much, right? Everyone says, yes, sit back and just coast through the first few episodes. Don't speak up because you never know what could happen. But you do want to speak up a little bit. You want to. You want to show that you're trying to figure out who the traitors are and you're Presenting some evidence that you have. So, yeah, I think at that point, I wasn't on to Colton. I was on to Lisa. So I lined with him there, but I still, again, was like, all right, I got to stick to my guns here. Everything that's happened up to this point, I need to stick with my vote until I get more evidence, and right now, we're not ready to go full on in.

[Dolores Catania]

Lisa, did you ever happen to notice trader on trader? In my season, watching my season, did you see how they wanted to kill each other? The traders gave themselves away every time they got in a fight because they. It would be so between the two of them going after each other. And there's always that. The only way to really know if somebody's 100% a traitor is if you're a traitor.

[Stephen Clay]

Yeah. Yep. I think. Yeah. It's interesting, you know, through this point, through five episodes or six episodes in

[Dolores Catania]

the game, maybe we didn't see it. I'm saying, up till now, have you seen. Have you ever looked at two people and go

[Stephen Clay]

there? There were. There were times there was a bit of. Of actually, even Colton and Michael, you know, there's your.

[Dolores Catania]

Yeah, rule it out.

[Stephen Clay]

Yeah, right. And so I would allow myself to go down the path of thinking, all right, what's the scenario here where this is. These are two traders that are just fighting up in the turret, and now they're taking it in the round table and saying, all right, who can we get ax first? So, you know, that is something that is. Is definitely talked about. I never really had, up to this point, a strong inclination that there was any trader on trader fighting happening.

[Dolores Catania]

No, I don't. I didn't see. Well, we haven't seen it so far. I want to see the housewives fight, though.

[Stephen Clay]

Yeah, they. Up to this point, they. They've had real, real clean synergy, I think, between the traders and. And I. I. Yeah, they're. They're kicking ass up there.

[Dolores Catania]

They really are. They're doing a great job, and they're agreeing on things, and I kind of like it. I think that's the job the traders are supposed to do if they want to win.

[Stephen Clay]

Do you guys, like, was there somebody else that you wish was up in the turret, or do you like the traders that they chose?

[Dolores Catania]

I love the traders. Well, of course, I'm biased, but I love the traders that they chose.

[Wells Adams]

Yeah. Every season, you know, like, for. For my season, my big complaint was I thought that the traders were being stupid, and that's, like, what ended up getting me Kicked out. I was like, that was dumb. We're going to get rid of Dorinda. And then this. This season, I'm like, oh, the Traders are really, really smart and doing a much better job than I thought.

[Dolores Catania]

Yeah.

[Wells Adams]

In the. In the season past. But listen, you know, the. The thread on the sweater is starting to unravel with Rob voting for Lisa and seeing the writing on the wall. You haven't seen the episode, so I don't even know if you know that this happened, but Colton took Lisa aside and effectively tried to create an alliance, saying, I know you're a traitor if you are. I won't say your name if you protect me, and we go all the way. Did you know that that had happened?

[Stephen Clay]

Yes, he did. He did tell a couple of us that that happened, so I don't think

[Dolores Catania]

that's a good idea.

[Stephen Clay]

No, that's. That's. Again, I. I think Colton's playing a dangerous game. He knew he was playing a dangerous game, but. And I was sitting there going, like, you know what? Better him than me again, because, you know, we want to make it to the end and give Colton a lot of credit. He was. I think Candace dubbed him varsity. Early on, he was leading the charge, and to me, I was like, man, it's. It's gonna get him out of this game at some point. That's the way I felt. But, yeah, he. He did mention that. He. He told me, and it was also. It was. It was a part of what he put forth to some of us in private. As far as evidence of, like, hey, I. I called out Lisa. I just said it right to her face. I said, just protect me in the turret. And he said that, you know, just. She. She had a little bit of a chuckle. I guess you guys have seen it. But that was a validating moment for him. If there wasn't any, you know, anything left to doubt that she was a traitor, that was a big moment for him. That sealed it.

[Wells Adams]

It was a bold move as, you know, like a guy who's worked on a reality TV show for a very, very long time. I understand the edit and the cut. My question to you is, is there someone that's not getting airtime thus far that you thought would be getting more airtime? Like, I'm surprised, like, Johnny's not on my screen more, because I feel like that guy is so fun to watch on tv, but for someone that was there, were you, like, I'm surprised that they're not a bigger presence in the show thus far.

[Stephen Clay]

Yeah, Johnny's a great one. Johnny's hilarious. I love Johnny. He, he has, I mean, he's a joy to be around. He's got some great, some funny lines and, and just brought a lot. Every single day. Yeah. Surprised to see not as much Johnny. There's also. There was a lot of Jam Jam. I know he's gotten some good camera time, but there was a lot of Michael and Jam Jam. And they leaned more on the Michael and Colton. But there was, yeah, there was a heavy back and forth between Jam Jam and Michael. So I was surprised to not see all of that in there. But yeah, you know, I think at this point you've got some, there's some great personalities in the turret where, you know, it's funny. I mean, Rob, early on, you know, I went into the game, I met Ryan. Hey, what's, what's up? My name's Stephen. He's like, hey, I'm Rob. I'm like, oh, cool, man. Where are you from? He's like, Alabama. I'm like, okay. And everyone, the first, he was one of the first that everyone was like, hey, the guy, the snake dude, like, he's, he's probably a traitor because we had nothing to go off of. Right. And you're just looking to point a finger at somebody. So everyone was pointing at Rob.

[Dolores Catania]

That's crazy. Right out of the box, really.

[Stephen Clay]

Before the traders were even picked, right after the secret trader was picked, it was like, man, what's up with his energy? And so it's interesting to see now watching the show and seeing him in the turret and seeing how he's talking in his interviews as well. I mean, he's just, you know, he's, he's a smart dude. So I, it. You see the personalities that they got up there. You're seeing a lot of the traders, you know, more than, I guess. But yeah, look, at least as a big personality, Candace is a big personality and Rob in his own right is a great personality. His whole strategy and the way he's playing the game is fun to watch right now. So. Yeah. But yeah, at the end of the day, I think, to answer your question, Johnny's a great one. I would have liked to see Monet stick around. Monet was a great personality and I thought he was going to go really far. And so it just sucks again, he just, he's not speaking up to a lot of people, but he spoke up to the wrong person and yeah. For that.

[Dolores Catania]

Oh, that's, that sucks. I would have liked to have seen him. Him more too, but Was it your theory, Wells, that you said that they show. Or maybe it was Paul.

[Wells Adams]

No, it was me.

[Dolores Catania]

Oh, was you? Okay. That they show a lot of the people that are going to last longer. They don't show a lot of the people that last in the beginning.

[Wells Adams]

Yeah. They give all the screen time to

[Dolores Catania]

the people that are being banished or murdered.

[Wells Adams]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's a little for. And I could be totally wrong, but it's a little bit of a tell. Like the Johnny one. Mike. My theory is, is that he goes a very far way because he's way too big of a personality to have not been on my screen enough, you know, but, like, Michael Rappaport was a firecracker. He burned bright and fast and was out, you know, like. So I. I look at the TV show that way. Not to get, like, too insider baseball, but, you know, but to get insider baseball, there's a lot of stuff that gets left on the cutting room floor. It's always my favorite stuff on Paradise. I'm always like, I'm so bummed that didn't make it because it was so funny or is so dramatic or whatever

[Dolores Catania]

on my show, too.

[Wells Adams]

Yeah. Was there anything that happened on. On Traders that didn't make the cut that you were like, man, I really wish the audience had seen that.

[Dolores Catania]

Give us something good. I know you got it in you.

[Stephen Clay]

Oh, man. Shoot. That is a great question. I want to have a great answer for you guys. I tell you so, so far, there's. There's a few things. Just. Personally, I'm glad that they didn't use, because you're so. You're overanalyzing, you know, your own actions in the game. And even when I first was speared for the mission in episode what is. I think it's episode five, where they put a spear, and that's the first. Or episode four. Then I'm going to be up for murder for the first time. And I think I was. I was walking back and I was just like, oh, man. I said to myself, or I said out loud to the people I was with, I was like, you know, how could they spear me? Like, don't they know how important I am to the missions? And after that, I was like, why did you say that? As if you're so important to the missions that everyone's like, no, don't touch Stephen. Like, it's like, leave him be. So I was spared you.

[Dolores Catania]

I forget. Who was it?

[Stephen Clay]

Wait, what's that?

[Dolores Catania]

Oh, I spared you.

[Stephen Clay]

Leave Tara.

[Dolores Catania]

Oh, okay, okay.

[Stephen Clay]

And then and it's so. And then she said which. God bless Tara. She said the sweetest things in. In her interview about, you know, having to spear me and didn't want to and all that. That was really nice. So I was dreading that moment. I was like, oh, they're spirit. They're going to show me like pouting, like, hey, why, how dare they spare me. So, yeah, that was, that was funny. I'm glad they didn't show that.

[Dolores Catania]

Oh, you like dazzling.

[Narrator (The Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

Yeah.

[Wells Adams]

But then you just told us got

[Stephen Clay]

free and then you told us.

[Dolores Catania]

I know the biggest fear that's like. I think Michael's biggest fear was that roundtable fight when he said that and they showed it.

[Stephen Clay]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. No, I again, I. They could have done. They could have shown a lot from that. That roundtable went. I'm telling you, it was probably two hours stop. Really back and forth for a very long. Michael had it out with Colton. He had it out with Jam. Jam. He had. I mean, him and Johnny went back and forth and him and Kristen went back and forth at some point and yeah, it went on and on and on. And then we also had other, you know, other suspects to kind of get through. So there's a lot of back and forth that went. So you could, you could play, you know, a 10 minute scene at least from just, you know, Michael and Colton, Michael and jamj Jam from that roundtable. But what else can I trying to tell you here? It's, it's really that. It's. It's moments at the roundtable of people being called out there. Okay, there is, I'll tell you this, there was a moment, I think, coming into that round table where there was so much tension that as soon as Alan gives his, you know, players, the floor is yours, we're all coming back. And then Michael speaks up right away, of course, and we all just bust out laughing or some of us, not everyone, but it was a lot of people were just waiting for him to just, you know, he knew it was going to be.

[Dolores Catania]

Hold it in.

[Stephen Clay]

Yeah, yeah. So when he first is like, well, I should say something and then everyone, you know, busts out loud. So we had to kind of contain that. And of course, you know, they, you know, do not show that part. But there was a moment there. It was so. It was so tense that there was a little bit of a relief for a second. So that. That was funny.

[Dolores Catania]

But that's a tense moment though, walking into that round tables. Rough.

[Stephen Clay]

Yeah. It went right back to being tense very, very fast.

[Wells Adams]

So can you give us a tease for what's to come?

[Stephen Clay]

I'll say this. The Traders have had their way with the Faithfuls so far, right? I mean, they are kicking ass in this game, but, you know, they can't kick ass forever. So the Faithfuls are coming for them.

[Wells Adams]

I love that.

[Dolores Catania]

That's exciting.

[Wells Adams]

If you were asked to come back on the show for an all Star season, would you do it?

[Stephen Clay]

Oh, 100%. 100%. Yeah. I think, you know, the game was so much fun. I had an absolute blast. And you guys know this. It's. It's. It's so interesting to. To play it just once and then do, like, you know what I wonder. It'd be fun to go back and see if we ran it back, how would I do? You know, what would I be able to make it as far as I did?

[Narrator (The Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

Or.

[Dolores Catania]

Or would you do something different? What would you do different or.

[Stephen Clay]

Exactly. And there would. I think that there is a bit of, like. Okay, I think, you know, maybe early on, here's what I've learned, like, the way that people speak up, these personalities are great in. In some of these interviews, I mean, whether, you know, it's. It's Maura who didn't speak up a lot around the castle, but when she spoke up, she's got these great one liners, these tidbits. It's like that's. She's really funny and she's also like, commands kind of attention, you know, commands the. The room when she speaks up. It's not just the accent, but it's. It's the eyes and the fact that she's been beamed down from another galaxy. You know, I think that to. To. For me, I want to go back because I was also sick. I was terribly sick the first.

[Dolores Catania]

Oh, yeah, what was the matter? I heard that.

[Stephen Clay]

I fell. Not like Johnny. His was much more graceful. I jumped in on purpose at some point to help our boat in that first mission. I got super sick. I got Mark sick at one point. I got some of the crew sick. And then I'm just, of course, in my head about I'm going to get voted out because I'm the sick guy. But I'd be in some of those interviews and, you know, trying to speak about the missions in the game. Just snot and just gross. And I'm terribly frustrated. I just want to go home at that point. So I felt like it would be. I want to have a little more fun in those interviews if I can go back and play the game again. That's something that I would want to do.

[Wells Adams]

Well, we want to be respectful of your time. But before we let you go, what do you want to promote? Where can people follow you? Where can people find out more about what's going on?

[Stephen Clay]

I appreciate that. Yeah, I got independent show called. Everyone is doing great. We released the first season on Hulu and we just shot a second season. Congrats. That's going to come out later this year, so look out for that. And also we did a little special, two hour special with Roku. It's gonna be on the Roku Channel. Laguna beach reunion. It's the first time in 20 years.

[Dolores Catania]

Cool.

[Stephen Clay]

We got the whole cast together in the same spot lot and, and that was a lot of fun.

[Dolores Catania]

Awesome. I'm looking forward to it. And I'm gonna check your show out too.

[Stephen Clay]

Yeah.

[Dolores Catania]

We're friends now, so I have to do that.

[Stephen Clay]

I like it.

[Wells Adams]

Stephen, thank you so much for coming on. By order of the faithfuls. You're awesome, man. It's very fun to see you on our TV screens, you know, every week on Peacock. And you know what? I, I'm rooting for you, buddy. I hope you, I hope you win this entire.

[Dolores Catania]

I hope you win too.

[Stephen Clay]

I appreciate you guys. It's been a pleasure meeting you and thanks for having me on.

[Dolores Catania]

All right, take care. Have a good day. Bye.

[Stephen Clay]

You too.

[Wells Adams]

Oh, he is very handsome.

[Dolores Catania]

He's a great guy.

[Wells Adams]

Yeah.

[Dolores Catania]

Gentleman. Nice. I hope he wins.

[Wells Adams]

I do too. I like, I genuinely like that guy. And yeah, I probably would have thought he was a trader, though. I'd be like, you're an actor and a reality star.

[Dolores Catania]

You're like the, you have to be a traitor, right?

[Wells Adams]

The, you know. Anyways, this was a lot of fun. I love these.

[Stephen Clay]

I, I, I almost so good at it.

[Wells Adams]

These interviews more than our recaps because you really get to like, dig in and be like, wait, what did you think and what did we miss? All that stuff. That was a lot of fun.

[Dolores Catania]

So good. No, this is something, this is your niche. I mean, honestly, you're really good. I want to see. Have your own show doing this.

[Wells Adams]

I got plenty of shows.

[Dolores Catania]

I know, I know you have too many, but I want to just see you. I would like to see you doing this. Could, but in a huge, huge way.

[Wells Adams]

Well, I appreciate that. Very excited. Programming note for all of you traders and faithfuls out there. We are going to have the one, the only Michael Rapaport coming on. Very looking forward. I cannot wait to talk to him. It's gonna be great. It's one you guys do not want to miss. To make sure you're checking wherever you are. Following us on podcast for that Michael Rapaport episode to drop. We'll be back very, very soon with more behind the scenes interviews and recaps of Traders Season 4. If you're not following us on social media, please do at by order of the faithfuls. Dolores, it is always a lovely day when I get to see your beautiful face.

[Dolores Catania]

Thank you. Lovely day to hang out with you. You're a breath of fresh air.

[Wells Adams]

See you guys by.

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[Jill Winterstein]

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[Stephen Clay]

This is Special Agent Riegel. Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[Narrator (The Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.

The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nancy Glass]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumprite became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years. Until a confession changed everything.

[Stephen Clay]

I was a monster.

[Nancy Glass]

Listen to Burden of guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jill Winterstein]

Hi, it's Jo Interestine, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend Krista Williams. It can change you in the best way possible.

[Stephen Clay]

Dance with the change. Dance with the breakdowns.

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The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves.

[Stephen Clay]

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Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast.