Diamonds in the Rough: Stay Toxic

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Diamonds in the Rough: Stay Toxic"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Episode: Diamonds in the Rough: Stay Toxic
• Release Date: April 23, 2025

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1. Personal Check-ins and Life Updates

The episode begins with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge catching up on their personal lives. Tamra shares her recent trip to New York for work, reflecting on the balance between work and personal life.

Notable Quotes:

• Tamra: "I went to New York for the weekend to do a job. I can't tell you what it is which is really nice." [08:53]
• Teddi: "Tomorrow is the day that I go to the oncologist and all of the specialists and they do my MRI to see if any more tumors..." [03:38]

2. Discussing Personal Challenges and Resilience

Teddi opens up about her ongoing battle with cancer, expressing her anxiety and the emotional toll it takes on her daily life. She discusses the importance of staying positive while acknowledging her fears.

Notable Quotes:

• Teddi: "So this is a toughie. Plus, it's like, you know, if they have grown or if I have more. The conversations I'm gonna have to have with my kids post is already, like, giving me anxiety." [05:17]
• Tamra: "I think that you are very right to be a normal human being and have fear." [05:21]

3. Toxic Masculinity and Toxic Femininity in Relationships

The core of the episode revolves around the concepts of toxic masculinity and toxic femininity, exploring how these behaviors impact gender roles within relationships. Teddi and Tamra delve into the expectations placed on men and women and how these can create imbalances in partnerships.

Notable Quotes:

• Teddi: "If I have to say, toxic masculinity has to do with power and money. I believe they go hand in hand." [34:04]
• Tamra: "Being a collaborative species, we can't do everything by ourselves. That's not being independent." [33:28]

4. Power Dynamics and Equality in Partnerships

The discussion shifts to power dynamics, where both hosts acknowledge that in most relationships, one partner holds more power—whether financially, emotionally, or socially. They emphasize the importance of communication and mutual respect to maintain a healthy balance.

Notable Quotes:

• Tamra: "Somebody's always got the upper hand. Whether it's financially or your personality, somebody's always going to have more than the other." [22:38]
• Teddi: "I think it's more based on the person. If you have empathy and self-realization, your relationships are stronger." [26:02]

5. Communication as a Foundation for Safety

Teddi and Tamra highlight the significance of clear and honest communication in fostering a sense of safety within relationships. They discuss how misunderstandings and lack of communication can lead to feelings of insecurity and resentment.

Notable Quotes:

• Tamra: "Safety for me is confident. If I tell you something, it remains between us." [30:51]
• Teddi: "Don't make me make those decisions. Communication in general feels like safety to me." [31:30]

6. Independence Versus Collaboration

The hosts explore the balance between being independent and collaborating within a relationship. They advocate for both partners maintaining their own identities and financial independence while working together towards common goals.

Notable Quotes:

• Tamra: "You should have your own money, you should be in control of your own money." [33:25]
• Teddi: "I need to be more open. I make every other decision in my life." [27:16]

7. Nurturing and Emotional Support

Teddi expresses her need for nurturing and emotional support, acknowledging that these needs have become more pronounced due to her current life challenges. Tamra agrees, emphasizing the reciprocal nature of nurturing in relationships.

Notable Quotes:

• Teddi: "For me, being nurtured is something I need. I didn't know that I needed it before." [32:55]
• Tamra: "Nurturing to me is a give and take. I want to nurture my person and I want them to nurture me." [33:06]

8. Expectations of the "Total Package"

The conversation touches on societal expectations, particularly the notion of the "total package" in relationships. Teddi and Tamra critique this ideal, suggesting that it sets unrealistic standards and leads to dissatisfaction.

Notable Quotes:

• Tamra: "I think every man and woman expects the total package. When you're young... you're just looking for somebody that's decent." [28:45]
• Teddi: "Whoever thinks that I'm gonna be the total package, I'm like, oh, gosh." [29:37]

9. Authenticity and Individual Style

The hosts discuss the importance of authenticity in relationships and personal style. They caution against trying to conform to others' expectations, stressing that genuine connections are built on being true to oneself.

Notable Quotes:

• Tamra: "Everyone has their own style. People resonate with different things. It's not a group of clones." [45:18]
• Teddi: "If I'm a little fast talking today, guys, this is why. Some of my past insecurities." [08:00]

10. Conclusion and Future Topics

Wrapping up the episode, Teddi and Tamra reaffirm their commitment to addressing complex relationship topics and tease potential future discussions, including a possible Q&A segment.

Notable Quotes:

• Tamra: "Stay toxic. Imagine." [48:10]
• Teddi: "Thanks, guys, for tuning in for another episode." [49:04]

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Key Takeaways:

• Communication and Honesty: Essential for maintaining safety and trust in relationships.
• Balancing Independence and Collaboration: Both partners should retain their identities while working together.
• Challenging Societal Expectations: Rejecting the "total package" ideal promotes healthier and more authentic relationships.
• Understanding Power Dynamics: Recognizing and addressing imbalances can lead to more equitable partnerships.
• Emotional Support and Nurturing: Both are crucial for personal well-being and relationship stability.

Conclusion: In "Diamonds in the Rough: Stay Toxic," Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge offer a candid and insightful exploration of toxic masculinity and femininity, power dynamics, and gender roles in modern relationships. Through personal anecdotes and thoughtful discussion, they provide listeners with valuable perspectives on fostering healthier, more balanced partnerships.

Transcript

[Teddy Mellencamp]

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[Erica Jayne]

Foreign.

[Dennis Black]

Discover the life changing benefits of Meow Greens for your cat. Ever see your cat slowing down or having health issues and wonder, what can I do to make them better? Well, my friend, add Meow Greens to your cat's food for 90 days and I guarantee you'll see changes that will amaze you. Greetings. I'm naturopathic doctor Dennis Black, inventor of Meow Greens, and I invite you to take the Meow Greens 90 day challenge. In the first 30 days, you'll see shinier coats and increased energy. By day 60, your cat will have a stronger immune system, less shedding, improved joint function, all due to the live nutrients that you've added to their diet. And at 90 days, they're going to have better digestion, reduced inflammation, improved heart health, and you may even have reduced their cancer risk. Fetch a free Jumpstart trial bag for your cat today. Go to trymeow greens.com use promo code try meow. That's try M E O W. Discover the shipping. You don't have to change your cat's food to improve your cat's health. Just add a packet of Meow Greens.

[Erica Jayne]

Hi, guys. Welcome to another episode of Diamonds in the Rough with myself, Teddy Mellencamp.

[Unknown]

And I am Erica Jayne. Today.

[Erica Jayne]

Today. Who are you?

[Unknown]

Normally, I don't fucking know.

[Erica Jayne]

Ted, what is going on? E?

[Unknown]

I was feeling very sorry for myself as I drove over here. And then I thought, I have nothing to feel sorry about because I thought of you.

[Erica Jayne]

Listen, we all get a second to feel sorry.

[Unknown]

You second, you get a second and then you have to bounce back up. That's all.

[Erica Jayne]

So you've bounced back?

[Unknown]

Yep.

[Erica Jayne]

So you're not gonna share with me?

[Unknown]

I just. No, I can share with you. It's not that big of a deal. I was just feeling tired but kind of like crabby for no particular reason. And it just. It doesn't. You know, sometimes I get crabby and I'm like, you Know why there's no real Erica. Like, it's not that big of a deal. You start thinking about, well, I could. You know. It's really not that big of a deal.

[Erica Jayne]

And then you start making up in your head why you can't do something, of course.

[Unknown]

And it becomes bigger than it really is. And you make excuses for yourself, and I really don't have any. And then I get disappointed that I know I'm doing it.

[Erica Jayne]

Well, I get that way, even with errands. Like, I'm like, oh, I need to go buy new bras.

[Unknown]

Sure.

[Erica Jayne]

And I'll be like, well, that's annoying. Well, I don't wanna do that.

[Unknown]

Well, it is annoying. A lot of things are annoying, but you still have to do them anyway. And I think I was just feeling sorry for myself on the way over here, so.

[Erica Jayne]

But you seem like you're back on track.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I ditched it in the driveway.

[Erica Jayne]

You left it there?

[Unknown]

I left it in your driveway. I said, where?

[Erica Jayne]

Like, Dove leaves all of her trash.

[Unknown]

Does she really?

[Erica Jayne]

Today I went out to follow after her.

[Unknown]

What do you mean, trash?

[Erica Jayne]

She, like, bo, have snacks, and then she'll just, like, leave her snack bags out there. I'm like, excuse me, Dawn.

[Unknown]

Well done.

[Erica Jayne]

You're not gonna get these snacks if you're just gonna be leaving them all night.

[Unknown]

No, we can't do that.

[Erica Jayne]

She's very booked up. But, yeah, it's been. I feel a little tired today, too, but now I'm all hyped up on caffeine. Sorry. Don't come for me, guys. I'm on my second green tea.

[Unknown]

You can do whatever you want. Tell me what's going on with you.

[Erica Jayne]

Well, tomorrow is the day that I go to the oncologist and all of the specialists and they do my MRI to see if any more, like. Cause last time I went to get my mri, I had more tumors.

[Unknown]

Sure.

[Erica Jayne]

So this week. Tomorrow I go in and find out if I have more tumors, if they've grown, if they've shrunk. And then I also do immunotherapy. But the concern with this one is, like, I really 100% thought, like, I'm, like, I'm good. They've definitely shrunk. I haven't been having headaches or feeling weird like I'm good. And then today.

[Unknown]

Hold on. You have a. Okay, today I have a headache, but maybe that's stress. You know what I'm saying?

[Erica Jayne]

Well, and then the doctor wrote something that, like, you know, we had to send to a couple different people. But it was just like how stress, you know, then it'll. So that the cortisol released. Especially when you have cancer.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it's like, I'm sure it's like super high.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah, it's like super high. And so it's like all that nervous energy and I'm just like, just chill. Just.

[Unknown]

Yeah, but it's very hard for you to do that.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah, I know.

[Unknown]

This is a tough one.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah. So this is a toughie. Plus, it's like, you know, if they have grown or if I have more. The conversations I'm gonna have to have with my kids post is already, like, giving me, like, anxiety. Anxiety.

[Unknown]

Cause it should.

[Erica Jayne]

I mean, it'll be a dream. I'll be so happy. I've been really trying to be positive, thinking that they're gonna go and be like, guess what? This time it worked.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Erica Jayne]

But I'm also human and have fear.

[Unknown]

I think that you are very right to be a normal human being and have fear. And I think that we also need to be hopeful and positive. But, Teddy, like, what you're facing is fucking unreal. It's not. It's a big deal and it sounds.

[Erica Jayne]

So silly, but, like, everything in my life has changed so much.

[Unknown]

That's not silly at all.

[Erica Jayne]

That, like, even, you know, next week I'm going. It's the first time I'm going to like a. Like, we talk sometimes about, like, the pressures of. Of Hollywood or the pressures of being in the business, but next week's the first week that I have to wear, like, a black tie dress.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Erica Jayne]

And I was, like, trying them on and I was like, well, this isn't gonna work. Well, this is because nothing, you know, fits anymore when you're bloated. Yeah. And it feels so, like, depressing. Depressing. And I'm like, you know, at least there was a point like when I start thinking back then you go down, like, the timeline of all the shitty things that have happened and we all do it in our lives. And I'm like, this isn't a shitty thing. That's not that big of a deal. Just like, go get something else. But, like, I'm beating myself up over it.

[Unknown]

That's normal. I understand why you would too. Yeah, absolutely. Especially, like, look at the business we're in.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

You're also really used to looking a certain way and you're very strict with your, you know, very disciplined with your fitness and, you know, your nutrition. And so something like this would. Yeah, I get it.

[Erica Jayne]

And I had. Did a Press thing last week. And it's not to call the person out, but they were like, how do you feel about the fact that your body's changed?

[Unknown]

That's ugly. Who said? And I was like, wow, that's nice.

[Erica Jayne]

Woo. And like, you know, that's a little like, come on. And I was like, I didn't mention this to you before we started this interview. So, like, you just saw it and felt. And then it like all those old things in our head.

[Unknown]

I'm sure all your old conversations just got kicked right back.

[Erica Jayne]

And I was like, but I just think it's important, like, when people ask about plastic surgery or about whatever. It's like, we all have to do what we're comfortable with. And, like, I'm super comfortable talking about plastic surgery. I'm not super comfortable talking about, like, when I'm going through hard times, like, talking about my body.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Like, my body changes.

[Erica Jayne]

Yes, My body changes. And there's. It's different than before where I'm like, well, I'm just gonna go for a run. I'm gonna take care of myself.

[Unknown]

Can't do that right now.

[Erica Jayne]

Like, sometimes I can't do it and.

[Unknown]

It might not work.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah. And it's like, completely different when it's from steroids. So it's like all of these things. So if I'm a little fast talking today, guys, this is why, like, some of my past insecurities, which I know is like a forbidden word.

[Unknown]

It is why?

[Erica Jayne]

Well, I don't know. I remember, like, there was like, a Housewives episode where someone's like, you feel insecure. And I think it was maybe to Camille, and, like, that was the only ultimate, like, put down.

[Unknown]

We're all. We all are insecure. Like, every human on this planet has insecurities. There's not a soul that is not without them.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah, not a soul. It just. It is what it is. And I think that that's. If you guys are having a moment where you feel insecure. I mean, then, like, something will happen. I'll be like, today I realized I could put my wig in a ponytail and, like, do it myself.

[Unknown]

And I was like, you know, the wig fairy did you right?

[Erica Jayne]

She did me, right? She's the wicked. I mean, it might go up and down a little bit. Cause I did it myself today, but I'm like, I'm pretty excited about this.

[Unknown]

Live your fucking life. You know what? I think you look good.

[Erica Jayne]

Any other action going on with you? Before we get into the discussion of toxic masculinity and Toxic femininity.

[Unknown]

There is toxic femininity? No. I went to New York for the weekend to do a job. I can't tell you what it is which is really nice. And so it was nice to have.

[Erica Jayne]

Are we gonna see it? Is it something having to do with Broadway, or is it something having to do with the television?

[Unknown]

It's on television.

[Erica Jayne]

Okay. Did you go out at all while you were there?

[Unknown]

No, it was strictly like, come in, work, leave. Yeah, but it was nice. I mean, you know, there's something fun. And I think you appreciate this, too, about. It's almost like a mission, you know, I've got to go here, perform this, and then come home. I kind of like those things. They're fast, they're furious, but it makes me feel alive, you know?

[Erica Jayne]

I know that's kind of. I think that's why it's still. Other than being able to go with Slate, but it's still the horse shows. I'm like, oh, I get to leave my house. I get to do this. And then even if I get tired, I'll just go back to the hotel and rest a little bit. But, like, having that, like, stimulation, of course, it's.

[Unknown]

Something is necessary. It is necessary. You're also a competitive person. This is also you living your life and being as normal as possible.

[Erica Jayne]

And people think that this podcast studio is inside. Like, everyone's always like, well, you leave your house every day to go to your podcast studio.

[Unknown]

I got heels for you. The bed's right here.

[Erica Jayne]

My bed is right here.

[Unknown]

The bed is right here. Okay. And you know what's on the other side of this little thing?

[Erica Jayne]

A treadmill.

[Unknown]

Exactly. You know what's right here? A couch. And right there is an infrared sauna that you cannot see. So we're not leaving this.

[Erica Jayne]

We're not leaving this house often, guys.

[Unknown]

No, we're in.

[Erica Jayne]

We're in it deep.

[Unknown]

All right, let's talk about this today. We're talking about toxic masculinity, toxic femininity, and gender roles in relationships. Are you dating?

[Erica Jayne]

Yes. And I've been getting a lot of hell about.

[Unknown]

But do people know that Edwin's dating, too? Well, I don't.

[Erica Jayne]

I think people want, in a weird way, want me to be the bad guy. But I'm like, we are on good terms. We have come up. We decided that we were going to be open and honest with each other and try to do whatever we can to be the best parents that we can. But also, this is an agreement we came up with. We were getting a Divorce prior to all of this. To all of this.

[Unknown]

And also too, it's your life and people need to butt out.

[Erica Jayne]

And his as well.

[Unknown]

I'm like saying like, however you guys want to do this, you're both dating people, you're both going out. Like, everybody needs to reserve your judgment. You're not living in this home with them. You don't know what's going on. You're outside there commenting, just shut the fuck up.

[Erica Jayne]

And it's like, why? And I feel like that's where.

[Unknown]

And don't take the time to tell me to fuck off. Okay?

[Erica Jayne]

And that's, that's why. It's also like, it could be so toxic because people are like, well, don't you have bigger things you should be concerned with? And I'm like, don't you, like, don't we freaking all? And I'm not like sliming around trying to hurt myself.

[Unknown]

You don't have to explain yourself to anybody.

[Erica Jayne]

I know, but I. That's who I am.

[Unknown]

You don't have to explain yourself to anybody.

[Erica Jayne]

But I think, you know, I think it's necessary. The biggest thing for all of us is to feel, you know, supported and happy and enjoying our time.

[Unknown]

I think you need to feel supported and happy from the people that know you and care about you, that are right here with you. And we do love and support and we know that you are a really, like, great mom.

[Erica Jayne]

And I mean, it's not like I. I mean, guys, I go to bed at 8:30 every night, so pretty much I know it's an early date if it's a date.

[Unknown]

We had to start the Kyle thing at 6 promptly because she was out by 8. And we're not lying. It was.

[Erica Jayne]

This is how it is. Have you gone any dates since last time I saw you?

[Unknown]

No, but I went to New York to go to work. Well, and that was just as satisfying.

[Erica Jayne]

This is the problem is that I am always word vomiting all of my life.

[Unknown]

But if I had something to say, I would. I just don't. Well, I need to get out there though. I say this every week.

[Erica Jayne]

We say this every week. And I honestly, I'm gonna start just. I'm gonna be like a paparazzi soon and just be following you around. And then I'm gonna be like, this week from Paparazzi Teddy, I discovered you're.

[Unknown]

Not gonna get shit because I am in bed watching YouTube.

[Erica Jayne]

YouTube.

[Unknown]

I do.

[Erica Jayne]

I watch YouTube. Hold on. The new show. What's the guy's name that always watches housewives?

[Unknown]

That's Jon Hamm. Jon Hamm that wanted to strangle me.

[Erica Jayne]

Oh, did he want to strangle you? Shit.

[Unknown]

I just. Because I want to take her and shake her and say, those aren't your earrings. He and Howard Stern.

[Erica Jayne]

I didn't know he said that. But anyway, his new show's really good not to throw him roses.

[Unknown]

Good for.

[Erica Jayne]

I mean, I don't know that we can really. I may like his new show. I think it's good and interesting and keeping me. But he just did his Mount Rushmore for Bravo lebrities, and he chose Shep Rose.

[Unknown]

Oh, you're oldie. You're old.

[Erica Jayne]

Kathy Hilton and Craig Conover. So. But what are your thoughts on. Okay, clearly your breakup was very. And then we'll get onto it. Sorry, sorry, sorry. But this is why I say we just have to always go, Rose, just go.

[Unknown]

Just do your thing.

[Erica Jayne]

But your breakup was a very public breakup. But do you think there's a requirement when you're on reality television to let people know when that's happening at some.

[Unknown]

Point if it's real? I think that, like, look, I think at some point. Let's take, for example, like, dorit. Mpk. And then there was the constant, he's not here. He's not there. Or Mauricio and Kyle. At some point, you have to say, yes, this is what's going on. Yeah, at some point you do, because it's not. It's not like, oh, they were out one weekend. You know, if it's consistently something separate, at some point you gotta say, yeah, we're separated.

[Erica Jayne]

And I lied. I have one other thing I need to ask you. Were you heartbroken when Garcelle unfollowed you?

[Unknown]

Devastated. I'm about as heartbroken as she was when I unfollowed her back.

[Erica Jayne]

Oh, damn. Now I need to do my first unfollow. Yeah, so I'm such a dork. Okay, so this all started, this conversation because Tracee Ellis Ross said she dates younger men because men her age are steeped in toxic masculinity.

[Unknown]

What does that mean to you, toxic masculinity?

[Erica Jayne]

Well, I think it's, like, for me, I know a lot about toxic positivity because I'm in the health and wellness world.

[Unknown]

I bet you do. And have people been tox? Yes, I bet you do.

[Erica Jayne]

Because even, like, you know, when you think. Think about some of, like, the best motivational speakers, then I meet them. I'm like, you're a freaking narcissistic.

[Unknown]

Most everybody in our business is a Freaking narcissistic. Also, two people are humans.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Dennis Black]

Discover the life changing benefits of Meow Greens for your cat. Ever see your cat slowing down or having health issues and wonder, what can I do to make them better? Well, my friend, add Meow greens to your cat's food for 90 days and I guarantee you'll see changes that will amaze you. Greetings. I'm naturopathic doctor Dennis Black, inventor of Meow greens, and I invite you to take the Meow Greens 90 day challenge. In the first 30 days, you'll see shinier coats and increased energy. By day 60, your cat will have a stronger immune system, less shedding, improved joint function, all due to the live nutrients that you've added to their diet. And at 90 days, they're going to have better digestion, reduced inflammation, improved heart health, and you may even have reduced their cancer risk. Fetch a free Jumpstart trial bag for your cat today. Go to trymeow greens.com use promo code try meow. That's try M E O W. You just cover the shipping. You don't have to change your cat's food to improve your cat's health. Just add a packet of Meow Greens.

[Erica Jayne]

When it comes to toxic masculinity, I mean, dating younger, I mean, that just means it's going to come later, right?

[Unknown]

Well, I don't know, I just think that, is it a trade off? You're trading off toxic masculinity for inexperience and I'm not sure which one I prefer. And then I'm kind of good with the old toxic dudes.

[Erica Jayne]

You like old toxics?

[Unknown]

No, I'm saying I have a lot of experience so I know what I'm looking at. And like the younger dudes, like the inexperience, I mean, I think that, you know what I really feel first off, I kind of feel like I need different people to fill different needs.

[Erica Jayne]

So you want to be on Sister Wives, that dude of all dudes. I'm sorry, we're going to talk about.

[Unknown]

Well, I just want to say, if one broad brings these men down, how the fuck are you going to like four? You know, men are. That's a, that's a big undertaking. You're going to satisfy four women.

[Erica Jayne]

He doesn't even satisfy my eyes on the television screen.

[Unknown]

He must be a beast in bed or something.

[Erica Jayne]

Like, I don't think so. I think he just was able to afford a house that could have four different entrances.

[Unknown]

And would you, would you do something like that? Could you be a sister Wife. No.

[Erica Jayne]

I could be a sister wife in the way of, like, being couples and, like, living on a compound.

[Unknown]

Really?

[Erica Jayne]

Yes. But not having sex with each other's partners.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Okay.

[Erica Jayne]

But, like, I could. I would be very selective with, like, my three other couples that we lived with.

[Unknown]

Of course. Of course.

[Erica Jayne]

I would be fine with that. Like, okay, well, I'm gonna do this. Okay, well, then I've got all the kids. Like, that idea is okay with you. That's okay with me. Like, I loved having my sister here.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah.

[Erica Jayne]

That kind of stuff. Like, I was like. And she would go and be like, well, I'm gonna feed the kids dinner. You wanna do that? I love that divide and conquer aspect of it.

[Unknown]

It does feel like at least sister wives, they do the kids, they all take care of these children.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah. So that's helpful.

[Unknown]

That is. That seems really cool about it.

[Erica Jayne]

But I wouldn't want to be married to the same guy. But when it comes to younger guys.

[Unknown]

I can say I am dating a younger person.

[Erica Jayne]

I'm dating a younger person.

[Unknown]

I met him.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah, I met him.

[Unknown]

I did meet him. He was very sweet.

[Erica Jayne]

But I would say that.

[Unknown]

What do you think?

[Erica Jayne]

Well, one, he's not that much younger.

[Unknown]

I know.

[Erica Jayne]

But two, I would say, I asked him, I said, why would you be interested in dating somebody that's older? Like, I'm clearly not going to have more children. I'm in the. And he said, you know, I've been dating a lot of younger girls. The younger than him. Girls, like, you know, by whatever. And he goes, they're just interested in different things. And, like, I'm not interested in that in my life. Like, I want. I'm interested in, like, my job and my life and having fun and experiences and doing these things. He's like, I don't really, really want to hear about the petty stuff that you care about when you're 28 years old.

[Unknown]

I mean, he has a point.

[Erica Jayne]

And he is not 28, for the record. He is older than that. But, like, that was.

[Unknown]

Yeah, but he has a point. I know that, like, because I've dated younger men too. And they say things like, I like the fact that you are truly your own independent person and that, you know, I don't check up on anybody. Like, if you want to go out, go out for three fucking days. Don't call me this. But this is also the marriage that I had because I couldn't not control. But I. I didn't even know where Tom was.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So I think it's so ingrained in me that if I date somebody, I'm like, well, fuck it. If you go away for, I don't know. Yeah, knock yourself out. I don't care.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah. Like, I think that's where we can talk about this toxic masculinity or toxic femininity. Like, I don't. At this stage of my life, I don't want to be checked. I don't want some. It's one thing to be like, how you doing? Thinking about you.

[Unknown]

But do not patrol or police my actions.

[Erica Jayne]

I don't want it.

[Unknown]

Do not do that to me.

[Erica Jayne]

I don't want to do it.

[Unknown]

Because you want your freedom and you don't want me to bother you, then the same has to go for me.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Like, you cannot police me. You cannot know where I'm at. You will never have my phone. We do not share passwords.

[Erica Jayne]

We're not sharing passwords. I don't want your location.

[Unknown]

I don't want your location.

[Erica Jayne]

I've lived that life already.

[Unknown]

Yes. Well, yeah.

[Erica Jayne]

And I'm not saying that it's the world's worst thing, but I don't want to feel like that.

[Unknown]

I don't want to feel like I have to check in. Like, I have to be home at a certain time. I have no dog. My son is grown, and it's just me. I don't have brothers and sisters. So if I want to stay out all night, the only person I feel like I have to text is sometimes my child.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah, sometimes your child. I'm out. And maybe sometimes Laia.

[Unknown]

Right. And Laia. Just to let people know. Yeah, right. Like, don't worry about me. I'm over here. But other than that, I don't want to have to check in with somebody, and I don't want to have to, you know. No. I'm tired of that. Yeah.

[Erica Jayne]

And I think that also something that people don't necessarily realize. And I was, as I was watching the show last night, not. Not Housewives. Guys, don't worry. I'm not like, getting tips from housewives on marriages.

[Unknown]

Please don't.

[Dennis Black]

Married.

[Unknown]

Everybody blew up anyway, so.

[Erica Jayne]

But it's like the way that your life changes as you get more successful. Like, so as a man or as a woman, your marriage or your relationship is going to change if one person's.

[Unknown]

Absolutely.

[Erica Jayne]

Career changes.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Somebody becomes the lead dog, and then the other guy's got to become the follower.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah. And I think, does it exist? I'm trying to think, like, in the history of anybody, like, does it exist where there is Two, like, equals. Equals.

[Unknown]

I mean, I think it's possible. Okay, look, anything is possible, but. But I'm guessing that at some point they may start off, but as things change. I mean, but just. That's the way life is.

[Erica Jayne]

But one person is always going to have the upper hand, even if you are equals, I think.

[Unknown]

I would imagine so. Whether it's financially or your personality, somebody's always going to have more than the other. But it's just about, what is it? Is it more money? Is it more power? Is it more flexibility? Is it more. Is someone prettier or more handsome? Somebody younger, older, more educated? There's a lot of things that could be. Yeah.

[Erica Jayne]

And also things change. But I have also realized about me something I need to do is just, like, kind of be more open. Like, I'm not really into that or that kind of gave me the ick.

[Unknown]

Or, like, I think. Yeah, I think you've earned the right to just say exactly how you feel.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And not, like, rude, but just like, I don't want to do that.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah. But if you've been with somebody for 25 years, you're not going to be like, hey, by the way, something you've been doing for the last 24.5 years has really been on bugging me, and.

[Unknown]

I've waited all this time to tell you.

[Erica Jayne]

I've been just letting it fester slide.

[Unknown]

For two decades plus.

[Erica Jayne]

She also said she's done being someone's possession or prize.

[Unknown]

What's your take on men who treat you like a status symbol instead of an equal partner? And have you ever dated one? I was never an equal partner in my marriage. I dated somebody that was. Well, excuse me. I married Tom, I think, when he was 60 and I was 26, seven. So he was already made and had made a ton of money. And so I married a fully formed human, and the power balance was way whack. Was I a possession, I think, that I was not in? Yeah. Yeah. Somewhat like a doll, in a way. I mean, that sounds kind of weird, but just kind of like a thing.

[Erica Jayne]

No, there wasn't there, like, a whole movie about this where you become not a Stepford wife, but, like, everybody, like, kind of falls into line.

[Unknown]

Yeah, you fall.

[Erica Jayne]

But do you feel like there were times in your marriage where you were the most. Like that, like.

[Unknown]

Yeah, of course.

[Erica Jayne]

Year 10 or whatever.

[Unknown]

Starting out right from the beginning, it was always Tom's life.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Because Tom had the bigger life. He was the most educated, the more experienced, and, you know, obviously had the Most money. So it was. It was all about Tom for a very long time. And I did fall into line. You do fall into line. A lot of women do that. They, you know, you hear women all the time say they lose themselves or their own identity. They start to become something like, you know, of their husband's life or then the kids come and then they become a mom full time.

[Erica Jayne]

And I also think, you know, we could put all the place on them, like all the blame on the men. But I think sometimes it can be us. Like, I found myself without ever being asked to go above and beyond to try to make another person happy before myself.

[Unknown]

Ah, that is very true. And we as women have to be able to step back and say, wait a second, why am I doing this? Is this because I'm conditioned to do it? Is it something I saw? Is this something I really want to do? You know, and that. I don't think that we give ourselves enough time to say, wait a second. Is this really what I want to do? Because I think that sometimes women start families and they may not be ready as well.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah. And also then we want to blame the other person. Truly. He made these decisions. I remember I've been married twice now, so there has been times where I've done things that no one asked me to do, but I wanted to do it. And then I had resentment towards it.

[Unknown]

And that's on you and that's on me.

[Erica Jayne]

It was a decision I made.

[Unknown]

That's right.

[Erica Jayne]

So I think. Yes. Do I think there's such thing as toxic masculinity or toxic? Yeah. But I really think it's more based on the person. Like, you either have empathy and you have self realization and your relationships or you don't.

[Unknown]

I think you have to first. I think. I mean, looking back at it now, the more you know yourself, the more comfortable you are in your own skin, the more you've cleaned up your own side of the street through either therapy or whatever it is, then you're able to really look at things from an objective point of view and say, you know what? I'm not doing that. Or I do. I actually do want to do this. And then you have run a less risk of having resentment later on because you're like, no, I made a conscious choice. It's when you do things from, you know, like, unconscious choices that you end up feeling kind of weird about it.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah. And you know what? Tracee Ellis Ross may change her mind and be like, you know what? Now all of a sudden, I don't Want to be the, you know, now that I'm dating younger, I don't want to be the one making these decisions. That's right. I miss that feeling.

[Unknown]

Yeah, of course.

[Erica Jayne]

And. But I mean, I don't know that that necessarily has to do with age. I think it has because it says dating younger men. I think it has to do with personality types.

[Unknown]

I do, too.

[Erica Jayne]

Like, you're like. I say to people all the time, I'm like, don't ask me where I want to go to dinner.

[Unknown]

Make the decision.

[Erica Jayne]

Make the decision. I make every other decision in my life. Like, if we're going to hang out. Not me and you.

[Unknown]

I know. Like you and a guy.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Like, you take me somewhere.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Like, take me somewhere.

[Erica Jayne]

Doesn't have to be nice. It's not about money. It's about. Just don't make me make those decisions.

[Unknown]

Do you find it attractive when men are more emotionally open and available, or do you prefer it when they are stoic?

[Erica Jayne]

I think sometimes stoic can come off as not caring.

[Unknown]

Comes off as, yes. Indifferent.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah. Which I think is the worst. Would I want somebody that's crying around all the time? Absolutely not.

[Unknown]

No. I think there's a nice balance. You want somebody that is in touch with their feelings and their emotions and being able to communicate that to you. Because when someone's not, like, you feel like you're talking to the wall that is nowhere to be.

[Erica Jayne]

And then, you know, I'm okay. Like, if somebody just walks out of the room, I think that's rude. But if somebody's like, hey, I need a minute.

[Unknown]

I understand that. Yeah, Take a minute. That's reasonable. I think sometimes just a clear communication, like, I don't need a whole lot of words, but if you could just let me know, like, hey, I need a second.

[Erica Jayne]

Hey. That kind of hurt my feelings. I need a sock.

[Unknown]

Sorry. You know, I apologize. You know? Yeah. If you can just say something, then I'm okay with that.

[Erica Jayne]

Do you think that people are getting to the point where women are expecting the total package?

[Unknown]

I think every man and woman expects the total package. When you're young and then when you're like my age, you look back and you go, I'm just looking for somebody that's decent in a heartbeat, you know, like, oh, certainly, you're just looking for a decent human.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Because what package? Like, I had all that and look at where it got me, you know?

[Erica Jayne]

So it got you unpacked.

[Unknown]

Honey, I couldn't have said it better. Yeah. Unpacked for sure.

[Erica Jayne]

You got unpacked, bitch.

[Unknown]

I gotta take it to the cleaners.

[Erica Jayne]

Clean it up. Clean it up.

[Unknown]

Oh, my God, this is devastating. But you are right. I got unpacked and. Yeah, you know, the total package. Define total package.

[Erica Jayne]

And I can guarantee that we're not the total package either. Like, whoever thinks that I'm gonna be the total package, I'm like, oh, gosh.

[Unknown]

I think everybody knows I'm a disaster, so it doesn't even matter.

[Erica Jayne]

Do you think that. Hold on, let me see which one I want next. Sorry. What does safety actually feel like to you in a relationship?

[Unknown]

This is very important for me lately.

[Erica Jayne]

Okay.

[Unknown]

So safety for me is confident. Like, if I tell you something, it remains between us. I'm talking like male, female. I mean, yeah, male, female. Not like friends right now, which is I also. Confidence is a big thing. But male, female, I need to know that what I say to you stays between us. I also need to know that you're not sharing anything that we do intimately with anyone else. Meaning, like running your mouth. I know that sounds crazy, but it's important for me. I don't know why. I also need to be assured that you want to get to know me as a person. Yeah. That is what. Instead of what you think of. Yeah. And I also need somebody that understands that maybe what you've been told or what you've been shown isn't the complete picture of who I am.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah. I mean, I agree with that. For me, safety is more just like I think I do have. I'm such an overthinker in general. Safety for me is like, you're not going to make me overthink everything.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Erica Jayne]

Like, I don't want to play games.

[Unknown]

No.

[Erica Jayne]

I don't want to have to worry that I said this and it bothered you.

[Unknown]

Well, I also too, if you say you're going to call it five, call it five.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Because by 5:30, I'm over it and I've got a ton of shit to do.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah. Like, you don't have to call me every night, but if you're gonna say.

[Unknown]

I'm gonna call you, please do it just so I can.

[Erica Jayne]

It could be two seconds or send a text. Hey, things got busy. Like, just communication in general feels like safety to me.

[Unknown]

It feels it's safe and it's considerate. And then I also know what to do next. Like, I can't. I run such a tight schedule that if it's 6:00 at 6:00.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Don't you know?

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Dennis Black]

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[Erica Jayne]

For me, I. At this point in my life, being nurtured is something I need. I don't know that I necessarily needed it before or I didn't know that I needed it before.

[Unknown]

You need it now.

[Erica Jayne]

But I need it now. What about you?

[Unknown]

I'll always need it.

[Erica Jayne]

You always need it?

[Unknown]

Yeah. I think because nurturing to me is a give and take. Like, I want to nurture my person and I want them to nurture me. I think that's a good thing.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah, I agree. And then what is your thoughts on being an independent woman?

[Unknown]

I think that that's a great idea.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And I think that it works to. I think it works to a point. But like in life, you have to. You can't do everything by yourself. Just as a human being. Like, we all. It's a collab. Being a human being is being a collaborative. We're a collaborative species. So I think that, you know. Yes, I think you should. One thing I've learned is you should have your own money, you should be in control of your own money. But you're also going to need help in some ways. And that's not being, you know, that's not. Not being an independent woman.

[Erica Jayne]

Do you think that a lot of this talk about toxic masculinity or femininity has to do with money or has to do with power?

[Unknown]

Both, I believe.

[Erica Jayne]

And do you think they're always hand in hand?

[Unknown]

I believe they are both, I believe money and power go hand in hand. I really do. Somebody's always got the upper hand.

[Erica Jayne]

But sometimes power can be some kind of just douche lord that has.

[Unknown]

That's pretend power.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

That's not real power.

[Erica Jayne]

But what is that? What would that be considered? That's like.

[Unknown]

That's considered toxic masculinity. You're just. It is just losers.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah, you're just losers.

[Unknown]

Do you think fully developed men exist? I mean, that's kind of a perfection. I'm sure there are people that are out there. My therapist told me. She's like, you know, you need to date someone that's been in therapy that's actually done some work on themselves so that, you know, you have a chance of meeting somebody that understands where you're coming from.

[Erica Jayne]

And I think if somebody says they're.

[Unknown]

Fully developed, they're not.

[Erica Jayne]

They're probably not that great of people, because, like, I know that I still have a lot of work to do on myself in my life.

[Unknown]

No one will ever achieve that. Yeah, no one will ever achieve that.

[Erica Jayne]

And if you think that you've achieved it, you've most certainly haven't.

[Unknown]

No. No. What? Let's talk about toxic femininity. Ooh.

[Erica Jayne]

Do we know any of those?

[Unknown]

Where do I begin? Well, it ain't me, I'll tell you that.

[Erica Jayne]

Do you have the urge to, like, tell people, like, these are the things I've done I did on my own. Like. Like, there are moments where people have.

[Unknown]

But there's not much. Shut up. No, I don't think so. I don't think so. I think I. No. Do you.

[Erica Jayne]

I think in relationships. A point. You know, I think it's interesting because my job, for example, is to, you know. Yes, of course, I have all in. But before all of this happened, I mean, I was podcasting six days, five days a week.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Erica Jayne]

And to the outside, I would feel the need to be like, well, yeah. I mean, I know I'm not leaving my house, and I know I'm in my living room, but this is a job, like, I am.

[Unknown]

You really felt the need to justify it?

[Erica Jayne]

I felt the need to justify it, especially if somebody's coming and going to an office. And do you think that women or men or anybody gets punished now for being too bold? Because I've noticed that a bit now.

[Unknown]

You mean you and I. Yeah, I.

[Erica Jayne]

Mean we, for sure.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I do. I think I've been. I've been punished for being too bold. Yes, you have to. But here's the thing. Do you want to Play small and play weak and be fragile and tears all the time and manipulate like that. I can't do it. It makes me frustrated. I can't bat my eyes all the time. And staying pretty is being something. Is something that I do for my job. Like, not staying pretty, but staying hot, staying sexy, staying on top of your aesthetic so that you can look as cleaned up as you can for your age. But being submissive just to pleasing men. You know, I. Shit. I always got criticized for being submissive to Tom, but it really was just a power imbalance. So is it submissive or is it just control?

[Erica Jayne]

And would he say, I want you to look or act or dress a certain way?

[Unknown]

No, I think it was more like, this is where we're going. And I knew. I knew what to do.

[Erica Jayne]

Right, you knew at that moment.

[Unknown]

Yeah. You knew. And you also know, like, you can't go to a client dinner and, like, have three vodkas and start, you know, acting like an ass.

[Erica Jayne]

I mean, we've all been there, and we realize afterwards that was a mistake.

[Unknown]

Right. So maybe you do that once and not again.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah, because then that becomes. But I think we all have to, like, also take ownership for when that does happen. When you have too many vodkas and you're on that date and you may act inappropriately, and then all of a sudden you want to blame the other person. Well, I did that because I was frustrated with what you did on the way to dinner and blah, blah, blah.

[Unknown]

Oh, do you do that? I don't. I just say I drank too much and it was my fault.

[Erica Jayne]

No, sometimes I'm really pushing shit off on other people. You know, I'm gonna be really honest. Sometimes I like.

[Unknown]

Well, sometimes you have to, I guess.

[Erica Jayne]

Do you think women sometimes judge each other through the same toxic lens?

[Unknown]

What question is this?

[Erica Jayne]

I didn't write it.

[Unknown]

You know, the world would be a better place if women cut women a break. Do you know what I mean? Stop. That's what I hate the most. It's like, everybody even, like, if you wanted to, like, bring it back to the show, everybody's been initially shitty time in their marriage. Like, calm down, everybody. Well, I would do it this way, but we're not. It's not you.

[Erica Jayne]

And if you did do it this way, then why are you so upset about it?

[Unknown]

Well, horrid.

[Erica Jayne]

Because I don't get upset. Yeah, well, I don't get upset about things that don't generally somewhat affect me. Like, I may have to for work sake, but I don't.

[Unknown]

You may give your opinion, but the bottom line is what someone else chooses to do in their life is their life.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I can say, hey, you know what? Like, I don't really think that's the most healthy thing for you, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. It's not like. And I'm not, I'm also not gonna. Provided it's nothing insane. Right. I'm not gonna stop being friends with someone because they don't feel the same way about life that I do.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And it's not. Provided it's not crazy.

[Erica Jayne]

Sometimes I think things can also not be talked about. Like if I know it's going to end and frickin chaos. Like in my day to day life. Like I have one friend that's just super on it over this one freaking topic and I know if that topic comes up, I'm like, it's gonna end like.

[Unknown]

So I mean towards you or you towards her?

[Erica Jayne]

Neither. Just in general.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I don't want to. Yeah.

[Erica Jayne]

Like I don't need to get into it.

[Unknown]

I don't have the, I don't have the energy for that. And you especially don't.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah, I don't.

[Unknown]

Let me ask you this. This is gonna. I. Is it hard to be both tough and tender as a woman?

[Erica Jayne]

I think that's a good question. I think yes. But I think for me, I am tough in some ways and tender in others. But there are some situations that I want to be tender and I maybe don't know how or I don't know how to express that. So then I end up being too tough.

[Unknown]

I agree. I think I do the same thing and I think it's like, I don't know if it's emotional regulation or learning when to like turn it on and turn it off, but I think sometimes the tougher I've had to be, especially in these last few years, that the tenderness just gets overran, you know, and then, and then it's harder to let down that, you know, defense or let down that, that part of your personality and really be super soft. Because when you do that and then.

[Erica Jayne]

You get let down, it's the worst.

[Unknown]

It's the worst.

[Erica Jayne]

It's the worst. And then you carry it around to every other friendship and relationship you have. Well, I do.

[Unknown]

What's healthy masculine energy to you?

[Erica Jayne]

I guess for me, I mean, I'm old school in certain ways. Like I want you to open the door for me too.

[Unknown]

I like that.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah. Like I don't mind. I like that. I don't want you to put me down or treat me that I'm less than, but, like, I want you to take care. I want you to want to take care me a little bit.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I think, like, manners and stuff like that is really kind. I, I, I like that it shows that, you know, your mother or whomever raised you gave you some, you know.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah. I mean, even last night with Cruz, like, I, you know, I wasn't feeling 100%. I'm like, hey, buddy, can you go grab my Pedialyte and do this? And he's like, do you want it in a cup with ice or no? And I'm like, I think that is a good tool to have.

[Unknown]

Whenever we used to take my son out to dinner, and he was young, coming up. I mean, obviously he's in his 30s, but he used to always pull out my chair. Yeah, you have to do this.

[Erica Jayne]

I kind of forget about the pulling out the chocolate. I don't get that often.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I mean, just opening the door or something like that. It's small, but it goes a long way.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah. Also, manners to me, goes a long way.

[Unknown]

Manners go a long way.

[Erica Jayne]

And, like, food is kind of closing.

[Unknown]

Your mouth when you chew. And that's why I hate eating on the show.

[Erica Jayne]

Well, I know that's why you never order avocado toast. It's the biggest mistake ever.

[Unknown]

I just hate eating on the show. And you get hungry and you want to eat, but it's just like, nobody looks good eating.

[Erica Jayne]

And there's certain things, like little bites. Like if it's, if it's like a little this, then it's easy. You pop it in. But, like, when you have to, and then it's in the tea, it's too much.

[Unknown]

I just remember that, like, not wanting to for so long. It's like, oh, nobody wants to be. Nobody looks good when they eat on camera.

[Erica Jayne]

No. No. Well, we didn't look good when we drank on camera.

[Unknown]

Who are you talking to?

[Erica Jayne]

We nailed it.

[Unknown]

Oh, my God. I was looking at. What was it? It was like some trip we were on, and we just looked haggard, like, as a group. I'm not talking about individuals.

[Erica Jayne]

We looked. I just saw this. It was. It was like airing just on Bravo, and I, like, turned it on, and I was like, why do we look so know where we were?

[Unknown]

Rome.

[Erica Jayne]

Yes.

[Unknown]

I knew it. I knew you were gonna say that.

[Erica Jayne]

We. Well, because I think that trip. We weren't allowed to have glam, which I never brought glam, but I would steal others glam.

[Unknown]

That's fine. You want to look good on tv, like.

[Erica Jayne]

But I think we got the memo. We couldn't have glam there. And so I think we all just looked like a big bunch.

[Unknown]

No, I, I, I had glam there. But I'll tell you this. Like, there.

[Erica Jayne]

Oh, of course she snuck it in.

[Unknown]

Everybody did. But here's the other thing. Not me. Here's the other thing, too. Just sometimes. Where was it? This was, I think before you joined, it was like Mexico. And it was down at. Kyle had rented this place. And when I tell you I looked like the biggest, sweatiest humidified mess, just grease all over. I was like, oh, my God.

[Erica Jayne]

My favorite memory of you and like, a look was when we were in the Bahamas and we all came down. It was our most fun day when we all swam together. But you had on, like, one of those, like, old school body gloves. And then all of a sudden we get down and we go to walk across the, like, plank.

[Unknown]

I walked in my heels, and you.

[Erica Jayne]

Had these big high heels on, and you just went, shit.

[Unknown]

Yeah, shit. But I walked across and they didn't show it. But that's okay.

[Erica Jayne]

But it was one of my favorite moments. Meanwhile, I'm like in flats.

[Unknown]

Like, well, you know, I stomping around and I had sandals. But I was like, we already committed to this look, you know, so. Which I think sometimes is like, who cares? And then I think, but you do care, Erica.

[Erica Jayne]

But I think that this is something I know we can give a little Housewives right now. There are some women that can really pull off doing a look. I am not one of those women, but you. No, because it's not an interest in me.

[Unknown]

Hold on. But you have your own style. This is what I always say. Everyone has their own style. And that's why people like different characters, is because people resonate with different things. Nobody has. It's not a group of clones.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It's a group of people, you know, identify with different women on different things.

[Erica Jayne]

Right. But I don't love watching a housewife that comes and tries to be an Erika Jayne or be a Dorit Kim. Like, then it doesn't.

[Unknown]

Well, it just feels inauthentic.

[Erica Jayne]

Inauthentic. Like, yes. There are moments that I tried to experiment with red lipstick that I really regretted.

[Unknown]

Do you really?

[Erica Jayne]

I do, because I remember I didn't know that you weren't supposed to put gloss glossy over red. And then all of a sudden, we were, like, mixed filming, and it was.

[Unknown]

Like, starts to slide.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah, but.

[Unknown]

Yeah, but you know, what, though? You got. You got your act together?

[Erica Jayne]

Well, ish. Wait, hold on. We gotta move back. This reminds me of toxic masculinity.

[Unknown]

What?

[Erica Jayne]

Your situation with Denise Richards.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah, tell me about it.

[Erica Jayne]

So what was the husband's name?

[Unknown]

Aaron.

[Erica Jayne]

That fought with us. He was one that I think had a little bit of toxic masculinity. We. We kind of both got into an argument. I'm sure you let bygones be bygones. We.

[Unknown]

It was words. Yeah. I feel like. The thing is, I don't like it when the men get mixed up in that.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah. So that's kind of what it was. But the other day, I was dying laughing because somebody came up to me and they're like, have you tried Eastern medicine? And I'm like, I haven't yet. I'm gonna wait till I get. And they're like, well, there's this guy.

[Unknown]

No way. And it was Denise's husband.

[Erica Jayne]

It was Denise's husband. But they said, you have to pay a ton of money up front, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, well, I'm definitely not gonna.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And he's not your guy anyway.

[Erica Jayne]

But then I was reminded of you being on the show that I just watched. And this is the one thing that I wanna talk about in regards to Denise. And then we'll move on, and we'll be done, and then next week we'll talk about something else, and then I'll get sidetracked, because that's what people. Seven tumors do.

[Unknown]

Is it seven.

[Erica Jayne]

Tumor time? Erica's like, when I signed on to do this pod, you didn't have any tumors.

[Unknown]

We didn't know you did, but we found out, and we're making. We're rolling right through it. So fuck these tumors.

[Erica Jayne]

Fuck these tumors. We get a little sidetracked, but how upset she got over the threesome conversation. And then I watched how she was on the show with her kids, and I almost shit myself.

[Unknown]

I know, but this is something that we knew.

[Erica Jayne]

Well, I know we knew, but now everybody knows, and nobody's given us the credit.

[Unknown]

We're never gonna get it.

[Erica Jayne]

I want some toxic positivity about. Teddi was right.

[Unknown]

Listen, what did I say last week? I'm always right, whether it's today, tomorrow, or five years. And you were, too.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And, you know, sometimes the truth, like, something. You know, I think people that watch the show, it's like, yeah, we said this.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah, there was a reason we felt this.

[Unknown]

There's a reason we felt this way. It wasn't just coming out of nowhere.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah, but, you know, we'll end the show with saying teddi and Erica are always right. Ish. At some point. Ish.

[Unknown]

Right. Listen, there's always gonna be a moment where you could go, oh, they did call that out. Yeah, they did call that out.

[Erica Jayne]

But only one person's gonna remember, and they're not the person that's gonna write it everywhere and everybody.

[Unknown]

No, it's only gonna be you and me. We have to go on here to remind everybody. Remember when we told you?

[Erica Jayne]

Remember that?

[Unknown]

Remember back in 2017?

[Erica Jayne]

I'm sorry, I can't remember what day it is, but I do remember what happened in 2016 because it gets burned at the port of John's.

[Unknown]

You know what happened? Because it gets burned into your fucking memory because you're so mad about it. I know, but I've gotten so mad at shit that I knew I was like that.

[Erica Jayne]

You knew it was coming.

[Unknown]

I just. Not what happened. I know, but.

[Erica Jayne]

But either way, who cares? We're not a. We haven't peaked in our growing.

[Unknown]

Everybody stay toxic.

[Erica Jayne]

Stay toxic.

[Unknown]

Guys, stay toxic. Everybody just stay toxic. It's working for us. I do have a friend, and I always text him, stay toxic with the little sparkles.

[Erica Jayne]

Oh, toxic with a sparkle. That's smart. Well, thanks, guys, for tuning in for another episode. Let us know what you want us to talk about next week. You guys keep saying sex. We can't always talk about sex. I mean.

[Unknown]

I mean, we can, but the bottom line is there's only so much, and then, you know, it's kind of boring. Unless you guys are gonna come in here and tell us.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah, unless you're gonna. Oh, maybe we should. I feel like we're due for a.

[Unknown]

Q and A. I like a Q and A. Well, we like a Q and A.

[Erica Jayne]

Listen, since we're always right, let's switch it from a Q and A to advice to advice. Instead of like, what, Dear, what is it? Dear John, Dear Abby.

[Unknown]

It's now Dear Teddy and Erica.

[Erica Jayne]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Dear diamonds.

[Erica Jayne]

Dear rough diamonds.

[Unknown]

Dear rough diamonds.

[Erica Jayne]

How do we stay toxic?

[Unknown]

Stay toxic. Imagine.

[Erica Jayne]

Oh, my gosh. That should be next week. Sounds fun. Thanks, guys.

[Unknown]

Thank you so much.

[Erica Jayne]

Bye.

[Unknown]

Bye.

[Dennis Black]

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