Diamonds in the Rough: You’re Not Famous, You’re Infamous

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Diamonds in the Rough: You’re Not Famous, You’re Infamous"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge
• Episode: Diamonds in the Rough: You’re Not Famous, You’re Infamous
• Release Date: December 12, 2024
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Description: Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge team up to Tell All. Listen each week as they watch and rehash as only they can. Who knows housewives better than housewives?! Right?! Teddi and Tamra are Two Ts in a Pod. (Telling All).

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Introduction to "Diamonds in the Rough"

In this poignant episode titled "Diamonds in the Rough: You’re Not Famous, You’re Infamous," Teddi Mellencamp (Erika Jayne) and Tamra Judge (Jeff Lewis Jr.) delve deep into the complexities of fame, infamy, and the pervasive issue of nepotism in the entertainment industry. The conversation navigates personal anecdotes, societal perceptions, and the emotional toll of living life in the public eye.

Nepotism: The Double-Edged Sword

Jeff Lewis Jr. opens the discussion by addressing nepotism, highlighting its historical roots and its omnipresence across various fields:

"[Neopotism] has been around since, like, before we, you know, the dawn of man." [17:27]

He underscores that while nepotism can open doors, it simultaneously places unrealistic pressures on the beneficiaries:

"Imagine being their children. That's a very hard place to be." [17:27]

Erika Jayne adds her perspective, sharing personal experiences and the challenges of being labeled as someone who benefits from her famous father's legacy:

"People's favorite thing other than that I'm boring. Their second favorite thing to say about me is that I'm John Mellencamp's daughter." [19:30]

Real-Life Examples: Blue Ivy and Apple Martin

The hosts examine high-profile cases of young celebrities grappling with fame due to their parents' status. Erika discusses Beyoncé and Jay-Z's daughter, Blue Ivy, attending the red carpet premiere for Mufasa: The Lion King:

"She also was happy to be on stage with her mom at Coachella." [12:58]

They critique the public's quick judgment and lack of empathy, emphasizing that these children are still human beings navigating their formative years under intense scrutiny.

Moving to Gwyneth Paltrow's daughter, Apple Martin, the conversation highlights the backlash Apple received for what was perceived as mean-spirited behavior:

"Apple jumps into a debutante's photo. That's Gwyneth Paltrow's daughter. After there was mean girl backlash." [13:11]

Both hosts advocate for giving these children space to grow without the added burden of public criticism solely based on their parents' fame.

Personal Struggles with Fame and Infamy

The episode shifts focus to the hosts' personal journeys. Jeff Lewis Jr. shares his aspirations and the relentless pursuit of his passion for performing:

"But fame for me was not the. I'm going to be rich and famous. Yes. That is something that sort of affirms your." [22:29]

Conversely, Erika Jayne recounts her battle with body image and the pressures of maintaining a public persona:

"I had been figuring it out. My whole life, you know, so that part was fine. But adding in that like loneliness of being in a big place..." [44:49]

The Emotional Toll of Public Life

Both hosts candidly discuss the mental and emotional challenges that come with being constantly in the spotlight. Jeff touches upon the lack of personal support and the difficulties of managing mental health issues like depression:

"I don't know... you have to carry just a hard taxing load." [65:05]

Erika emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries and seeking support:

"I have learned through this that we are allowed to have highs and lows." [64:54]

Turning Adversity into Empowerment

Despite the adversities, both Teddi and Tamra highlight their resilience and the ways they've transformed their experiences into empowering narratives. Jeff talks about rebuilding after public setbacks:

"The biggest con has been, you know, what I went through publicly with Tom and subsequently everything after that..." [62:04]

Erika shares how she turned her personal struggles into a business venture, demonstrating the power of perseverance:

"I started All In... it turned into a business. And all of that." [57:59]

Final Reflections: Fame vs. Infamy

As the episode concludes, the hosts reflect on the thin line between fame and infamy. Jeff humorously yet thoughtfully remarks:

"You’re not famous, you’re infamous." [22:08]

This statement encapsulates the essence of the episode—exploring how public perception can often skew beyond mere fame into an unwanted notoriety, and the importance of navigating this landscape with authenticity and self-awareness.

Conclusion

"Diamonds in the Rough: You’re Not Famous, You’re Infamous" offers an unfiltered look into the lives of those who, while born into fame, seek to carve out their own identities amidst public scrutiny. Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge, alongside Jeff Lewis Jr., provide valuable insights into the duality of nepotism, the challenges of living life under the microscope, and the journey from adversity to empowerment. This episode serves as a heartfelt reminder that behind every public persona lies a human story of struggle, resilience, and the relentless pursuit of personal authenticity.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jeff Lewis Jr.:

  "Neopotism has been around since, like, before the dawn of man." [17:27]

  "Imagine being their children. That's a very hard place to be." [17:27]

  "You’re not famous, you’re infamous." [22:08]

• Erika Jayne:

  "People's favorite thing other than that I'm boring. Their second favorite thing to say about me is that I'm John Mellencamp's daughter." [19:30]

  "I have learned through this that we are allowed to have highs and lows." [64:54]

  "I started All In... it turned into a business. And all of that." [57:59]

• Tamra Judge (Jeff Lewis Jr.):

  "If you were on TV, then it becomes something else, bigger and its own monster." [63:29]

  "You can do anything but quit." [25:25]

This structured summary provides a comprehensive overview of the episode's key discussions, enriched with direct quotes and timestamps to highlight significant moments and insights shared by the hosts and guest.

Transcript

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[Erika Jayne]

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[Teddy Mellencamp]

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[Erika Jayne]

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[Teddy Mellencamp]

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[Erika Jayne]

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[Teddy Mellencamp]

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[Erika Jayne]

Using Symbiotica products consistently has been a game changer for me. I can stay healthy during special holiday moments.

[Teddy Mellencamp]

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[Erika Jayne]

That's symbiotica.com/teapot for 20% off your 1st order. We're, we're starting another episode of Diamonds in the Rough. I love that. Me and Erica were having a, what we thought just a small rant, a private rant. And then we're like, oh, should we get started? Our producer goes, oh, we rolling?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Thanks.

[Erika Jayne]

Thanks, Jeff Lewis Jr. Oh, my God.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Well, all right. So welcome back to our second episode of Diamonds in the Rough. And I hope you liked the first one. Cause we've got some more coming for you.

[Erika Jayne]

We've got some more. People really loved it. They loved hearing, I guess I don't even know if it's a softer side to each of us, but hearing a side of some of the questions that people haven't really gotten into. And I talked about this on two T's in a Pod with Tamara. I said, sometimes what's really annoying when you're watching a housewife show is somebody will share information and then nobody asks a question back because they're so worried about what they're going to promote in their own head. So you don't get to the bottom of a lot of things that I actually think are interesting because the other person's being so selfish that they're like, hold on, I need to get myself.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Hold on, let me say what I need to say. Hold on, let me say what I need to say.

[Erika Jayne]

What's new?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

What is new? Oh, downstairs, you know, I Have an electric car. I have an electric Porsche, by the way. And I just like saying that, but all the EV spots were taken up by Teslas, and I was a little. Cause I don't have. I should have plugged in my car at home and it was on my to do list. But somehow or another I got caught up in watching other podcasts on YouTube. Nothing like ours, but something different. And I just was watching it all night long and I forgot to plug in my car. And then downstairs, they didn't have any spots for me. It's okay. I'll make it home. Rude. I'll make it home.

[Erika Jayne]

I'm listening to this book. This is just off topic, but it's the. What's it called? Dinner with Vampires.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Oh, what's that?

[Erika Jayne]

Oh, my God. It's about.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Is it fiction?

[Erika Jayne]

No, it's a true. It's a memoir.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

It's your family.

[Erika Jayne]

Hold on.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Dinner with Vampires. Starring.

[Erika Jayne]

But it's a. Bethany Joy Linz from what? Yeah, Dinner for Vampires. It's been on the New York Times bestseller list multiple times. But I started listening to it because it was about being in a religious cult and Jesus, she married, like, the son of the head cult leader, and it was the girl from One Tree Hill, and she was an actress. It's really good. And being in narcissistic relationships. It's really good. You should listen.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I watch a lot of those docs on cult leaders, and it is fascinating the way normal people. I mean, seemingly normal people get really involved in these cults. Like that TikTok dance cult.

[Erika Jayne]

Oh, that one was a good one.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Did you see the Mother God one where she.

[Erika Jayne]

Of course, she was drinking like tin tons. She turned green.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

She turned blue.

[Erika Jayne]

Colloidal. Silver.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah, whatever. Silver. Colloidal. Yes. And then they drove around with her body in the. In the. With the Christmas lights and shit. I mean, it's possible because you are in a psychotic state.

[Erika Jayne]

But also I think what God?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

You're channeling some God. I don't know if it's our God or their God, whatever.

[Erika Jayne]

I mean, but that so many people are impressionable or feel so alone.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yes.

[Erika Jayne]

That they.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Or they're in a vulnerable place. Yeah, they're in a vulnerable place. Or they don't have a sense of belonging, I think.

[Erika Jayne]

And what Joy Lynn said was she has been an actor since she was a little kid, and she grew up in the church. And she had had kind of this harder life growing up because she was an introvert. And then she would do all of her acting and then the church wouldn't really accept her. And then she started this. Originally, it was just kind of like a Bible study.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Okay.

[Erika Jayne]

And then it turned into something else. Yeah. And it just. It made me think about, like, what we're talking about through this, through on Diamonds in the Rough is like sometimes when you are on television, sometimes when you have to put on this Persona.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And it is that it's a Persona, it's a performance, it's an outward facing public person.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. That then sometimes you're so desperate to connect or to feel.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Sure. And people. It's a strange place because I think sometimes people assume and being on reality TV is such a different thing. Like, I don't get to take this character named Erica off. Like, she lives with me. I am she. You don't get to take Teddy off and put her in the corner and. Oh, that was a role I'm playing. And I'm actually this other person. No. And when people meet you out and they fully. They fully accept what they've seen on television, and you can't be anything other than that. And that's sometimes hard to live with.

[Erika Jayne]

And you can't even really. If you show emotions, you're damned if.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

You do, you're damned if you don't.

[Erika Jayne]

You've shared too much or you're trying to get attention, or you're trying to get back on a show, or you're looking for clout, or you're thirsty. But if you don't share enough, you're boring. You're boring. Or you know what? You're a hypocrite because you're not sharing. It's. It's such a.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

You're hiding.

[Erika Jayne]

You're hiding. I mean, all of it. We've gotten every single criticism you can get you could possibly get. But a lot of this episode we're going to talk about, like, when we first came out here, we're going to talk a little bit about nepotism. But first, let's talk a little bit about just headlines that we've seen.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Okay, let's do it.

[Erika Jayne]

You want to take the first one?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Sure. Beyonce, Blue Ivy coordinate in their golden gowns as they bring a strong bond to MUFASA. On Monday, December 9, Blue Ivy and her mother, Beyonce, walk the red carpet premiere for Mufasa the Lion King. And in a video that's circulating on TikTok that starts with Blue Ivy taking photos alone, Beyonce comes in to also be in one of the pictures. And to some viewers, it looked like Blue was annoyed for her mom, like, kind of interfering with her moment. People online felt like Blue should be thankful that she has the nepotism available to walk on that red carpet. What do you think?

[Erika Jayne]

Well, I think there's also another piece to this puzzle.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

She's a teenager.

[Erika Jayne]

She's one. A teenager.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah, she's a teenager. And she's also a human being outside of being Beyonce and Jay Z's child. Yeah.

[Erika Jayne]

Like, I think about my kids, and it doesn't matter if I'm in a red carpet or not.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

But, like, no, I was gonna think about. I wanted you to talk about how you grew up with your father. Like, you grew up with a very famous father.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah, but I also wasn't doing, like, red carpet. We lived in Indiana and Hilton Head. There was. It wasn't like I was walking a bunch of red carpets, but it didn't matter.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

He was still just your dad.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah, and. But I think that. And there's also more levels. Like, people are like, oh, she seemed annoyed. But in the same moment. What about Beyonce probably wanted to protect Blue Ivy in that moment because of everything in the press going on with Jay Z. Well, like, there's so many levels to everything.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Beyonce's a mom trying to. And their daughter. Could you imagine living in the shadow of someone like Beyonce, Jay Z, Lebron James? I mean, you can look at it in politics. It's just living in the shadow of these very famous icons as parents, that's got to be a mind trip of its own. Like, these kids don't get enough. In my opinion. Understanding how are you ever gonna fill a great man or woman's shoes like that? That's an impossible task. So, of course, yes, she's lucky to have the life that she lives. But, guys, it does not come free. She's paying a price. Whether it's, you know, emotionally, physically, psychologically, you know, nothing in life is easy. Even if your parents are Jay Z and Beyonce. Cut this child a break.

[Erika Jayne]

And I mean, it also comes with. I mean, I didn't have this, but, like, imagine being followed around with security 247 having this.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Zero freedom. Zero freedom and zero room to mess up.

[Erika Jayne]

Zero. And when you do mess up, everybody is going to highlight it. Especially now that there's social media. There's everything. Like, I mean, we had a couple Polaroids when I was younger of, like, my bad behavior. Like, what?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Oh, man, we didn't even have Polaroid today. Drop off the film. And there is none. So. Ha ha.

[Erika Jayne]

But I don't even. I think she was just being A teenager. And it didn't bother me.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

It didn't bother me at all.

[Erika Jayne]

And also, she wanted to go to the premiere. Like, if she didn't want to go, I'm sure she could have said, I don't want to go.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

She looks great. Isn't she in the movie?

[Erika Jayne]

She's in the movie.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

But, like, she's going to go. I mean, right?

[Erika Jayne]

But if she didn't want to be in a picture with her mom, really?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Well, I'm sure leave Blue Ivy alone.

[Erika Jayne]

She also was happy to be on stage with her mom at Coachella.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Also received criticism and came back stronger.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And so, you know, like, let these children live. Let these children grow. Let these children and stop being so. Of course she's annoyed. She's a teenager.

[Erika Jayne]

And I think that also. And we'll get into it because now we react to Gwyneth Paltrow's daughter, Apple. So Apple jumps into a debutante's photo. That's Gwyneth Paltrow's daughter. After there was mean girl backlash. This was on page six. Apple Martin was labeled a mean girl over the weekend for playfully jumping into a fellow debutantes photo. Can you pronounce this?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Nepal de debutante. I don't know.

[Erika Jayne]

And then the next. I don't know.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I don't know. But I know it's a. Listen, listen. It's very fancy French. It's very fancy French. And this is a very. You know, to be a debutante is something. I mean, that's lovely. And to be in France and to make your debut.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. Well, the French debutante from the viral video told People Thursday that Apple 20 doesn't deserve an ounce of what she's getting online.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Why not?

[Erika Jayne]

Well, they're all saying she's a mean girl because she jumped into the photo.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

But Apple's been photographed since she was an embryo.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I mean, like, again, is she not allowed to have fun or are you just. Are you just sour grapes because Apple jumped in your photo?

[Erika Jayne]

But she's not even sour grapes. She's saying she doesn't deserve it. Even the person whose photo she jumped into.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Wait. Is sticking up for her, am I not? Yes. Oh, I'm misreading this. What a ding dong. Sorry. Yes. Thank you. For the French debutante who agrees with us.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. I mean, in the video in question. I hate that. I.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Look at me. I was always going to the negative.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. She's like, anyways, fuck that French debutante.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

You know what? I take that all back. I'm so very sorry. Thank you to the lovely French debutante who stuck up for Apple Martin.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Who?

[Erika Jayne]

We can't pronounce your name, but we're trying. Lapin de Montemart was posing in her black gown when she turned around and saw Apple walking into frame and striking pose after pose. At the time, she brushed off the interruption and continued walking.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah.

[Erika Jayne]

Then Apple also made headlines after the annual event for an interaction with her date, Count Leo Henkel Von Donner Smark.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

She sounds so Euro and so fab.

[Erika Jayne]

It sounds so rich.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

It really does. It sounds like something like we don't have here in America.

[Erika Jayne]

It sounds richer than Teddy Jo Mellencamp or.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah, I don't even. I'm not even saying my name because there's a whole lot of shit that comes with mine, so forget it.

[Erika Jayne]

She was filmed visibly rolling her eyes during a conversation with the New York University student.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Oh, she was filmed being a human being.

[Erika Jayne]

Oh, okay. Yeah. And I'm sorry. Apple's been getting shit since they named her Apple.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I agree. I agree. And she's Gwyneth's daughter and, you know, Chris's dad. Yeah, like, that's her dad. I mean, guys, leave Apple alone again. Can these people just live?

[Erika Jayne]

No, they can't.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Here we go.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah, here's another one.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Okay, well, you know what? Okay, so Kim's getting blamed for, you know, north and Chicago west being in their father Kanye West's music video. Well, if you can't put your kids in your own music video, like, who cares? It's his music video. Let them do what they want. It's their money, their time, their children. If you don't like it, well, then I don't know what to say.

[Erika Jayne]

And while some are giving the exes, like, they're proud that they're giving their girls creative freedom, other labeled the opportunity as peak nepotism.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah, they have. I'm here. Let me lay out the facts for you. Nepotism has been around since, like, before we, you know, the dawn of man. Whether it's a bakery that you hand down to your sons or whether you are the daughters of Kim and Kanye. I mean, nepotism. I mean, we've had two father son presidents in the United States of America. And yes, that's true. I looked it up. And you know what else? There's nepotism in every field, and this happens to be their children. Imagine being their children. That's a very hard place to be. Yes, it's rich. Yes, you have things that other kids don't have, but you also have this unrealistic pressure placed upon you that most children will never understand, most adults will never understand.

[Erika Jayne]

And I can say from personal experience. Personal experience and knowing other kids, of famous people. Famous people, it either comes with an extreme level of trying to be perfect, of perfectionism, or the complete opposite.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah, I've seen that, too.

[Erika Jayne]

Where it's like, you're just like, fuck it. I want to be completely the opposite of anything that.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah. And some people go so far as to change their name and never talk to their family again. And it's just. It runs the gamut. I mean, there's no. Fame is not.

[Erika Jayne]

But I don't get hating on the kids for it. Like, you can't.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

They're just kids.

[Erika Jayne]

They're just kids.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And, you know, I don't know.

[Erika Jayne]

Do you think it's. Do you think it's unfair or do you think.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

But when is the world fair? Right. When has that been. There is no fair in this life or this world. That doesn't even enter the equation.

[Erika Jayne]

Well, I mean. And you can even go, like, even in the south, like, whether it's nepotism or not. But I remember meeting, you know, blah, blah, blah, the fourth. Oh, yeah. You knew he had money.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Well, of course. Why would we name them? It was a family. It was a family line. Nobody. Nobody's ever. The third or the fourth if you're broke.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

It's like, we're changing up. We're changing up the entire situation here.

[Erika Jayne]

People are asking me, do I feel that nepotism has helped me and. Or hurt me in my career? I mean, I would say that the lessons that my dad instilled in me and working very hard.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I was going to say that.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. Has helped me. Like, there's been. Have.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Your dad's been hard on you.

[Erika Jayne]

He's been very, very hard on me.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Very hard on you.

[Erika Jayne]

But he also, you know, today. He's the first person that called me this morning, and he's like, you know, just checking in on you. How is it going?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Good.

[Erika Jayne]

And so I think it can be challenging, like. But I think, yes, having somebody with a famous last name as a relative can get you in the door, but.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

You have to carry the ball from there.

[Erika Jayne]

You have to carry the ball from there, and then also it can hurt you, like, in the same way. Like, people's favorite thing other than that I'm boring. Their second favorite thing to say about me is that I'm John Mellencamp's daughter.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

So therefore, you don't. Yeah, you. This is all because of him.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. And I don't deserve to be a human being. And, you know, I'm riding on his coattails. And so there is challenges, and that.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Can'T feel good at all.

[Erika Jayne]

I mean, I think it's weird because it goes back to that original conversation is if I say something like, well, I mean, I moved out to California at 17 and I've been supporting myself and I don't have a trust fund and I've had a million rejections. People are like, oh, what do you want, a pity party?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

No, it's just actually a fact.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Like, that's actually to show you that all of this advantage you thought I got really wasn't there. Yeah.

[Erika Jayne]

And I mean.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I mean, some. I'm sure some things, but certainly. Yeah, you've worked very hard. Your dad has not. And John don't come for me, but, you know, I mean, he has not.

[Erika Jayne]

No. And I mean, there's.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

He's laid it on you. Very real.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. And I would imagine that a lot of it. Other parents have done the same.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I know some very successful men that did not hand their children their fortune or their business simply because, and I quote, they don't have the talent.

[Erika Jayne]

But I think also, I mean, I've.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Seen that and I've seen it in business. I see it in, like, you know, hardcore business where, like, they don't have the talent. I'm not doing that.

[Erika Jayne]

But also, what. What bins that. Like, would you be able to. Like, would people be able to say that your son is nepotent?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Like, my son's a cop, so there's. That dude's in the streets. I don't know if that's anything to be.

[Erika Jayne]

But you see what I'm saying? Like, how does that not exist everywhere then?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Exactly.

[Erika Jayne]

And like, how do you shelter your kids from being considered.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

You can't. I mean, and it's just people are going to. You have to. I think that it's. Look, at some point when you're in the public, you're going to have to accept the fact that you have to pay a tax for this public life. And part of it is being misunderstood, rushed to judgment, and things like, oh, you only got here because of your father's last name, or your mother is Kim Kardashian. Therefore, you have our no value. And you know, which is not true. And that's not fair. But when is life fair?

[Erika Jayne]

Life isn't fair. Which brings us to fame. Our next thing that we.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Or infamy.

[Erika Jayne]

Can you give me the definition of infamy.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah, it's being known for not good shit. Because one of my lawyers looked at me and said, hey, you're not famous, you're infamous. And I was like, isn't Al Capone infamous? You're infamous. I was like, great, thanks.

[Erika Jayne]

That's. What were your dreams as a kid?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

So my dream was always to perform, meaning that from the time I was about three or four, I would create shows even though they were nothing. I would get into a closet, ask my mother to introduce me, and I would literally jump up on, like, the coffee table, like in front of us, and sing and dance for my mother, my grandmother, anybody that was listening and watching. And from that, my mom put me in dance and children's theater. And it never stopped. I went to a great performing arts high school in Atlanta, which is no longer there. At the time it was called Northside School of Performing Arts. And then I wanted to continue my life of performing and moved to New York City and then settled in Los Angeles about eight years later, seven years later. So for me, performance has all. And I managed to take long breaks in between. I was married twice, and when I And became a mom, so I wasn't performing then. But that was always gnawing at my heart, like, to perform, to create. And when I was living Tom's life, and I really was living Tom's life up for about seven years, and then I said, you know what, Tom? I need to create. I need to do things like it was calling. It's always been inside. So fame for me was not the. I'm going to be rich and famous. Yes. That is something that sort of affirms your. I don't know, your projects or whatever it is that you do. Hey, people like it, you know. Applause. But I didn't do it for the applause. I did it because I fucking loved it. And I love the feeling of being out there on stage.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And even now, it's like. It's. It's great. And I'm grateful for everything that's happened to me. But there's also days where it's like.

[Erika Jayne]

Geez, this is a lot.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

This is a lot.

[Erika Jayne]

Well, I mean.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And I don't even have. I have a sliver. A sliver of the attention of these people that we were talking about early. A sliver, you know?

[Erika Jayne]

Well, I mean, two years you may have had.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

For two years, I was on a fucking roll. I was on a roll.

[Erika Jayne]

Two years you may have had been head to head with those ones, but.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

For two years, yeah, it Was. And not for all the right reasons.

[Erika Jayne]

Right.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

So it'd be different if it was like, oh, Erica, you were celebrated because it was so great.

[Erika Jayne]

You were in the Lion King.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah, you were in the Lion King, and you really killed it. Are you. Yeah, you. No, that's not what ERAS Tour is.

[Erika Jayne]

Just.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah, the ERAS tour. Yeah. Let me. It was none of that. It was. Let's make. Let's. Let's be on a reality TV show. Let's have competitors, competing networks make docs about you.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Let's have every fucking tabloid write about you, put you on everything. And like I said, you asked me.

[Erika Jayne]

To be in that doc, by the way.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I was like, thank you. I really appreciate that. Thank you. You know, there was a couple people that have. That reached out to me and were like, hey, this came across my desk, just so you know. No way. And I appreciate everybody that did that because. Cause that's gross.

[Erika Jayne]

I mean, granted, I know that on Two Teas in a Pot, I recap shit, but, like, there's a. There's a.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

There's a limit.

[Erika Jayne]

There's a limit. But what do you say to people? Cause this was. This is the perception that you get. And I'm talking to you not as somebody that's one of my good friends, but it's the perception of watching on the shows. You know, you were married, you got a divorce, you went to go chase your dream, leave the other stuff behind, and then you met an older man.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Who funded the entire thing. Who funded the entire vanity project.

[Erika Jayne]

Yes.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Not true. I've been getting paid in the entertainment business since I was a little kid, even though it was a local, you know, in Atlanta, Georgia, where I'm born and raised. Yeah. I was working since I was little, and meaning I wanted to. I wanted to do these things, whether it was commercials, whether it was theater, and being on Housewives did nothing more than take my project, which was already on its feet, and expose it. Took it out of the clubs and took it to a more mainstream environment.

[Erika Jayne]

How long were you performing in the clubs and stuff before you booked Housewives?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I started Erika Jayne. I want to say I think 2007 was my first record, and then I don't know what year I came on, so whatever. I don't.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah, yeah. But do you think that what was like, the. When you first started with Tom, was there a time where he was like, I don't want you performing? Or did you just mold your life into his?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I molded my life because what my life was, was his life. Was great.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

So I molded my life into his life, and I. And I got exposure to an entirely different life. And so that was wonderful. Until, you know, again, here comes this. This need. Yeah. Until this need to, like, hey, I want to create again. I feel this again. And I think that that's what happens. We step away, we come back. We step away, we come back.

[Erika Jayne]

Was there a defining moment?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yes, there was. I received an invitation to a club show of a woman that I knew through Tom's social circle. But I flipped it over and I saw that it was choreographed by one of my dear friends from Performing Arts High school that I've worked with, like, heavily with Michael Jackson and everyone else. And I mean, like a real fucking. Like a real dancer. And I called him and I said, what are you doing on this project? And he literally said, oh, yeah. You know, he said, well, what are you doing? And I said, well, in terms of, like, performing. And I said, well, nothing really. I haven't. He goes, well, if it's possible for her, meaning the invitation. The woman on the invitation is possible for you. So shout out to Travis Payne. Thank you. He planted the seed and helped me grow. Erika Jayne, and then Mikey and I took it and grew it more. So we just kept going. And that's the truth. And look, my hometown, you know, I know I'm 53, but, like, the kids that came up, we came up together in performing arts school. We turned out some amazing talent, some really cool people. I mean, you basically, when you came out of our dance program, you went on tour with Michael or Janet, Paula Abdul, or you went onto Broadway. Like, there was no.

[Erika Jayne]

And let's not forget, you did go onto Broadway.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I did, but much later in my life. But, like, I'm talking straight out of 12th grade. Yeah, they didn't go. They were, like, right out of there on world tours, and that was when you were making money. Like, they were buying houses and shit.

[Erika Jayne]

Do you remember, like, what your biggest rejection was?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I've had so many. I remember people telling me, you know, you're not talented, you can't sing, you can't dance, but. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. I don't think you seem to understand. It's all about also how you see yourself as an artist. There are people that are vocalists, there are people that are dancers, there are people that entertain. Like, it's all of that. I don't think you are. What you think you are probably is the biggest rejection.

[Erika Jayne]

What is your biggest insecurity?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I think my biggest Insecurity sometimes is not feeling prepared. I don't know how to explain that any other way than not feeling prepared enough. And it's hard to explain, but, like, have I gone over this enough? Have I?

[Erika Jayne]

And you can see it in your demeanor when you don't feel like you're prepared.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yes. And when you don't know, I feel.

[Erika Jayne]

Like an edginess to.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And when I don't know, I feel like I don't know a piece of music well enough, or I haven't worked out the kinks in something, or I don't know the choreography well enough. I feel rushed. You can see it. And because you don't get into that flow state.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

You don't get into that relaxed state that people like, when you can throw away all of the. All of the stuff and just really live in the moment. And that's what I crave the most, is living in that moment on stage. Is nothing less like it.

[Erika Jayne]

Is it an escape, you think?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

100%. I say that all the time.

[Erika Jayne]

And what was your. And I know I'm grilling Erica right now, but it'll. So it'll. It'll switch over.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

It will.

[Erika Jayne]

But, like, was your. Would you consider your mom a stage mom?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yes, I think that. Well, not only my mother, but my grandmother in the best sense possible. I think that I was living their unrealized dreams through two generations. And there was a moment when I was like, can I just. Because it was constant. Like, it was company rehearsal on the weekends. I went to performing arts high school. You know, can I step back? I'm not really. But, Erica, if you step back, you lose time. And so they instilled a whole lot of sense of urgency into me.

[Erika Jayne]

And would you say that, like, your mom is still involved in your career?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah, my mom is like, that was terrible. And I'm like, can you not come? You know, I don't like that. I really thought. I was like, pause, pause.

[Erika Jayne]

Did you take it personally or you. Fuck, yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I was going to. I was about.

[Erika Jayne]

I thought you were going to say fuck. No.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I was like, no. If anyone can strike at my. The deepest, most open wound of myself, it's my mother. And you can see it on the show. You can see how I just start to turn on her. Because that mouth of hers is ruthless. Because it cuts me in a way that nobody can.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's gonna show a side of you that always.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Not nice at all. Very ugly. Very ugly. And I've shown that, and I've tried really hard to work on it. I really have. I discussed it in therapy. I've talked about it with my mother. It's just something I have to get over. Yeah, that's something that I have to get over. I'll just say that. Follow your dreams.

[Erika Jayne]

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[Erika Jayne]

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[Erika Jayne]

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[Erika Jayne]

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[Erika Jayne]

How did you pick the name Erika James?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I couldn't come up with anything else. I mean, it's really not that deep. I just wanted to be Erica, you know, because I thought that disconnecting from I didn't want to be Erica Gerard. I'm like, you know, you don't want to be a Real name. Like, that's not exciting. The thing, the whole thing about being an artist or having an artistic project is escapism. I've always said Erika Jane was an escape artist. It was an escape from a life that I was living at that time. Fantasy, love, escape, glitz, glamour and fun. Hello. My six words to describe Erika Jayne. But it was the only thing that we came up with at the time. I don't have some magical sort of. Is it inspired by Jay Mansfield? Sure.

[Erika Jayne]

I mean, but it's funny that you say that. As you said that, you know, you wanted that name getting into nepotism in my dad, he wanted to get away from his stage name.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Did he really?

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah, they, you know, back when he first started coming up, they gave him Johnny Cooger.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

That's right.

[Erika Jayne]

And then he spent years and years and years of his life tried to.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Be John Mellonkin, fighting it.

[Erika Jayne]

So then it went from John Cougar to John Cougar to John Cougar Mellon.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Camp, you know, like, how old was your father when he was signed? Like, his first.

[Erika Jayne]

His first big hit was in 1981, the year I was born. So, I mean, those could say, is.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

It Jack and Diane?

[Erika Jayne]

I think it was Jack and Diane. I mean, it was that album.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I remember.

[Erika Jayne]

So he was 36.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And I can see the album cover in my head, and I can remember that song was. I mean, you talk about heavy rotation. Like, that song was a. It's a smash.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. And that's my mom in the video.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Oh, my gosh, I'm going on tonight. Is it really?

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah, that's my mom.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Okay. Little Vicky.

[Erika Jayne]

That's my mom sucking on chili dogs.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Outside the Tasty Freeze. And to think. But I. And I, when I met you, I was like, wow, I've listened to her dad, like, for forever.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. But it is funny. I mean, the way people, you know, there's an escapism version. And then there's also the part of, like, when you. When you want. When you want to achieve your goals, you may sign on and do anything.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Right.

[Erika Jayne]

Even if it's not something you want to.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Well, I think that that's also how that business was and is still is that they change and mold you to what is palatable and what sells. I mean, and now. Now it's the complete opposite. If you're not your authentic self, you're not selling shit.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. So, I mean, they did the same thing with, like, you know, old Hollywood movie stars.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Nobody was their real name. Marilyn Monroe was not her name. Norma Jean Mortensen was, you know, Marilyn Monroe. Rita Cansino was Rita Hayworth.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. And they would be signed onto one particular, you know, studio and they had to do all their movies within that studio.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And then they'd get loaned out. Yeah, and they would get loaned out.

[Erika Jayne]

So I mean, it's kind of like being on Bravo.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I'm just kidding. My God.

[Erika Jayne]

Or nobody wants to borrow you.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Don't you ever say that again in my presence. I'm telling you, you stop talking negatively.

[Erika Jayne]

I have. If I didn't laugh at myself.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

No, but there's a limit.

[Erika Jayne]

Okay, fine.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Okay, you can have. That's it. That's your one self deprecating moment.

[Erika Jayne]

Okay, fine.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Do not say that again.

[Erika Jayne]

I do appreciate that. At least you know, when I'm being self deprecating now versus when we first.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Met and you were just like, gosh, well, that's also. Look, how do you, you know what I. How do you feel right now? Now that you're so, you know, all of this really glaring attention is turned onto you? How do you feel? I mean, I, and I mean this genuinely, like I'm not trying to bullshit you, like, how do you feel about what were your hopes and dreams as a performer and now you've never been bigger. Being known for something. That's painful.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And that sucks.

[Erika Jayne]

It sucks. I would say that like when I first came out to California, you know, I had grown up riding horses and I got all of my, I don't know, my confidence by winning, getting those blue ribbons.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Well, you were a professional as a teenager. People don't realize this. Teddy was a professional as a teenager.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah, like I was, you know, one at Madison Square Garden. It was, it was my entire life. And then I had gotten a full ride to college, but in contingent with riding on the team. When I said, what's this, by the way? I don't want to say okay, but to ride on the team. But then when I said that I wouldn't, I didn't want to ride on the team because I was an idiot 17 year old and said, I don't want to ride on the college team because collegiate riding is a step. It just was a stupid fucking move.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

It's ok. It's ok.

[Erika Jayne]

But then they were like, well then we don't want you. You have shitty grades.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

The only reason we got you over here is because you were good.

[Erika Jayne]

And that's when I decided to move to California. And my parents were like, well, yeah, I mean you can. They were divorced at this time. A million Years. And, you know, we were.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Did they say to you, how dare you turn down a full ride? I can imagine your dad being like, hey, what's wrong with you?

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. And I mean. And then he was like, well, that's fine if you're gonna. If you don't wanna ride in college. Well, I. You will still take you. And I was like, well, I'm not going. I'm going to California. I want to be an actress.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Is that what you wanted to be?

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah.

[Erika Jayne]

I mean, I didn't, but I didn't really. I just wanted to be seen.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Okay, Yeah, I get it.

[Erika Jayne]

It wasn't like I was in acting school for all these years. I mean, I probably, you know, I messed. I met my. I started at CA in the mail room. I met my first roommate in my first acting class I'd ever taken.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Did your dad get you the job at caa?

[Erika Jayne]

In the mailroom. He got me that interview Navy. He got me that interview with Arlene Newman, May she rest in peace.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Well, it's not like you were doing anything interesting other than delivering the mail, which is, as everybody knows, the key. Starting position.

[Erika Jayne]

It is the key. I was the only person in the mail room that hadn't graduated from an Ivy League college. So it was a touch of nepotism that got me back.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Good for you.

[Erika Jayne]

But then I got myself on a partner's desk.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Hell, yeah.

[Erika Jayne]

So after a year of being in the mailroom, all of those things, I worked my way up and kind of became that quirky, self deprecating Teddy Jo that everybody kind of wanted.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Sure.

[Erika Jayne]

They were like, on their desk. Yeah, we want you to work for me. And it taught me a lot. It also taught me that I came from being a big fish in a small pond to the smallest fish and the biggest in the ocean.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And the ocean.

[Erika Jayne]

In the fucking ocean.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Intimidating out here. Yeah, well, anywhere but, you know, it can get intimidating.

[Erika Jayne]

And I, you know, had. We've talked about this, but I had grown up with eating issues and body dysmorphia and all that kind of stuff that comes with riding horses and skin tight beige pants and.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Well, did you have to weigh in for those things?

[Erika Jayne]

You don't have to weigh in and hunter jumper, but it's like you're almost.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Rewarded for being tiny and small and looking like you don't exist on the.

[Erika Jayne]

Horse and especially when you're somebody that's my height and I don't have long legs.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah, you have to be teeny tiny.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. Like, so it was kind of that. And then I came out to California and I'd gone to the same school from third grade till 12th grade.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

So like.

[Erika Jayne]

And I rode with the same people, so I never had to kind of make new friends.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Oh, shit.

[Erika Jayne]

And all of a sudden I'm out here dumped out. I'm like, oh, hell, you know, and I. I'm living in the studio apartment, barely making do.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Like, let's just say that your dad gave you no money. You're not filling this part of the story. Your father said, fuck you.

[Erika Jayne]

My parents gave me my Jetta. We packed that Jetta.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

So you got rid of the Gremlin?

[Erika Jayne]

We got rid of the Gremlin, I got the Jetta, we shipped it out and then that was.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

That was the end of it.

[Erika Jayne]

That was the end of it.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Good luck.

[Erika Jayne]

You figure it out.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

You figure it out. Which is kind of. It's great, but it's also like, could you imagine turning slate loose right, in a few years and being like, go work it out.

[Erika Jayne]

No, but.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

No but I mean, think about that. They basically said and that go.

[Erika Jayne]

But I mean, to be perfectly honest, and I'm not trying to like shit on my mom, but I had been kind of figuring it out.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah. Yeah. Your whole life.

[Erika Jayne]

My whole life, you know, so that part was fine. But adding in that like loneliness of being in a big place and then that's when I kind of, I guess in lack of a better way of saying it, started eating my feelings. And I remember that first, you know, at this point I come out to la, I get, you know, things are going all right, I'm making a couple friends, I'm doing.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I got the job.

[Erika Jayne]

I got the job. I got a manager. I got those headshots with like the belly button piercing that I had just gotten, you know, like all that.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Had a belly button piercing.

[Erika Jayne]

My pencil thin eyebrows. Love it. And then that's. When did you go to class?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Did you study?

[Erika Jayne]

I did I seen.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Study?

[Erika Jayne]

Yes.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Not sty.

[Erika Jayne]

What?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

What?

[Erika Jayne]

Yes. What?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

What?

[Erika Jayne]

Help me.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I was going to say Stella Adler because it sounded like you were going to say that, but that doesn't sound right.

[Erika Jayne]

It's not. It was Stella Adler later, but before that it was.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I don't know because I didn't go.

[Erika Jayne]

I'm not. I'm going to hear. But New York, I mean, I. It was like a chorus line. Pretend to be a tree.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

You know how I love that? How like, what the fuck is a tree? Like, I've never even thought about that.

[Erika Jayne]

Explain how you'd feel if you were the Hollywood sign, old and dilapidated with the L missing, because somebody.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Right, that's what I'm saying. Somebody jumped off.

[Erika Jayne]

But yeah. And then there was a moment where I was going on auditions and I was also. I was a hostess at Mr. Chow in Euro Chow, and things were just kind of spiraling. I booked the job. I talked about this on the show. And then after pilot season, we kind of started, like, we had that second round. We're like, we're all about to start filming the pilot. And I had gained probably 50 pounds.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Oh, no. Yeah, I remember.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. They called my manager and said, she either needs to lose weight or we're gonna fire her. We're gonna fire her. And I never recovered from that. I never recovered from it. And I also never went on another edition again.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah, it took it out of you.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. Like, I was like that. And then I was so bitter, of.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Course, about it and demoralized. I mean, Jesus Christ, could you imagine? Lose 50 pounds or we're going to fucking fire you.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. Like, we're done. We. The girl that we.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

That we hired is not the girl that's showing up here.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. And then it just became, you know, 15 years of living in California and, you know, just putzing around, trying to figure out what I was going to do. You know, like, I worked in agencies. I went.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And the fact that you never went on an audition again is soul crushing. That just lets me know how deeply that wounded you.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. And I mean, I remember going home for that Thanksgiving, like, that year after, and I just had kept gaining more and more weight, and I just remember, and this is not judgment on my family, but I remember walking in and my family's faces. Because there wasn't Instagram then.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

No. So they were, like, shocked when you walked through the door.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah, they were shocked. And it was.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And not in a good way.

[Erika Jayne]

Not. Not in a good way. And so that's kind of always carried with me. But then, you know, you take that pain and to transmute it, and you transmute it, and I kind of started finding my way, and then, you know, I lost it again. And that's. And that's really the law. The long and short of it is my life has been this and so.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Is yours, of course. And I think that that's. You know, I hate to be so cliche, but that's also like, I'm going to. And you can criticize us later. That's the hero's journey. I mean, because you have it, you lose it, you regain it. You, you know, you're mad, you're sad, you're bitter, but you overcome, and then things change. The most important thing, I think for me, and I think for you, is to, like, I told you, you can do anything but quit, and you will again take this challenge and overcome and make it something else. And I think the way that you've. You were on Housewives, and then you took that and turned yourself into a really great podcaster, and you've had a lot of success, is not only it's very admirable, but so many people would have walked off in defeat, and you didn't do that. And you have to. You have to acknowledge that in yourself that you've created something else out of that, and you'll create something else out of this experience.

[Erika Jayne]

And I have to also, like, tell you thank you. I'm gonna get an emotional right now.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

You can get.

[Erika Jayne]

I have to tell you thank you. Because it did mean a lot to me that you said yes to me.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Of course.

[Erika Jayne]

And it did mean a lot to me because there's so many people that want to jump on the bandwagon of hating or making you feel like you're less than or not enough. And I think that the fact that you chose our connection over what other people thought is why this became so successful. And I really, really appreciate it. And, like, you did it at a time that, like, you really didn't have to.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah. But I am your friend.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And I also have been where you are, and I also know that this, too, shall pass. And I believe in you and I respect you, and I know that you will overcome because you are a hard fucking worker.

[Erika Jayne]

Thank you.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And you've never allowed anything since I've known you to take you to a place where you didn't fight back and fight back on your own behalf. And so I'm very proud of you.

[Erika Jayne]

Thank you. And, I mean, we may fight back.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

The wrong way, but nobody's perfect. And you are a human being, and you're allowed to have these sort of experiences. The difference between us and others is that ours is in the public.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And people get to enjoy, cheer us on, or criticize us. It's all good at the end of the day.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Now I have a tear.

[Erika Jayne]

I know.

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Visit delta.comskymiles experiences and use your miles to unlock your next unforgettable adventure. Today, not a SkyMiles member, it's free and easy to sign up and start earning miles today. Terms apply. Okay, so our next question that people are asking.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I think, like, why did you both want to become a housewife? Did you ever watch reality TV before? I did not. You know, I did not watch this show before I got cast.

[Erika Jayne]

I didn't either, but people never believe me when I say that.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

They didn't for me either. I said I knew who the women were because at that time, oh yeah.

[Erika Jayne]

People are always going to say, we saw that picture of you and Kyle when you're in, like, the air.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah, we met in some. Two completely different noses.

[Erika Jayne]

A nose ago.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah, no, two. Both of us. By the way, she doesn't care that I say this, but a nose ago. And yeah, I had met her at some party and she was kind. The thing about Kyle, people don't understand. And I said this a long time ago. Kyle grew up in this business. But she doesn't take it that seriously. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, oh, I, you know, she's always been friendly to strangers and to everyone else.

[Erika Jayne]

And she.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And so she was. I was a stranger. She took a picture with me. There you go. That's all it is.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. People try to make it like, oh, she's been dying to get on this show for years because we found this one photo.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

No, no. It's kind of bizarre. I would have never seen myself on a show like this.

[Erika Jayne]

So how did you.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Actually, I told you. Tom and I were friends with David Foster and Yolanda. We had gone out to their house one day, and she came down, not feeling great in her robe. She was very sick. And we were all talking, the four of us, and she literally said, have you thought about being a housewife? And I said, no. And she said, I'm texting my boss. We've already kind of started, but we need someone. And that was Alex basket.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And here I am. I got the job and here I am. And it was really something that was so different than anything I could have ever seen. I didn't know what I was doing or what it was because it wasn't like a 5, 6, 7, 8. Yeah, go over here. Sing this note. I was like, what are we doing? So, yeah, what about you?

[Erika Jayne]

For me, it was slightly different. So I had said I never had gone on audition again after that incident. But then cut to, you know, we're 10 or 15 years later. I've had the. I've had my first two kids. I was in. And I've been open about this. I was in, like, a rough part of my life again. Like, you know, I'd had multiple miscarriages. I had ivf. I was struggling because it was.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I forgot about all that.

[Erika Jayne]

It was the first time that I wasn't making my own money.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Oh, wow. Which is a big deal for you. And you know who else? It's a big deal for you and Kyle. Really bond over that.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Like, both of you, like, making my own money. Cause I was always like, yeah, whatever. Let me give it to whomever. The two of you are very in sync about that.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. I mean, I always had my own separate bank account. And for the first time ever, I.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Didn'T have anything in there that.

[Erika Jayne]

Anything. And it was just making me honestly unhinged. And that's when I started All In. Not as a company, just I started. It was LA Workout Junkie. You guys actually made me change the name, whatever. But LA Workout Junkie, which was like, I want to change my life today. And they followed along on my journey on changing my life. And then it turned into a business. And all of that. So I had grown a very small Instagram following. We're talking, like, 10,000 people, right throughout my journey and my business. And I had been reached out to. You know, you get those emails from, like, casting. And I had been reached out to. To be on a different show like Bunham and Murray, which is like the OGs, the OGs of reality TV. And I filmed the pilot, okay. And it was. I mean, a lot of the girls from that show have come on, and they did really well. The show continued on. But after I filmed the pilot, I was like, I absolutely cannot do that show. Like, I was like, this.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Was it combative or just conflict or just. It didn't sit right with you?

[Erika Jayne]

So staged.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Ah.

[Erika Jayne]

And, like, I just. I felt like my. It didn't feel right. And so I emailed my old friend from CAA and said, hey, did I sign a contract that I can't get out of?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Wow.

[Erika Jayne]

And turned out you did. And she said, you can. No, she said, you can get out of it.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Okay.

[Erika Jayne]

And she goes, but while we're on the topic, would you do Real Housewives?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Oh.

[Erika Jayne]

And I said, I've never watched it, right. Because I watched the Bachelor. Real World Rules. But I wasn't at that point. I was pretty. I was younger.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Well, you know what I was going to say. I always thought you were too young to be on the show because you were on your way up. You need bitches that are on their way down. Now would be a perfect time. Now you've got all the dirt under your nails you'll ever need to be on.

[Erika Jayne]

But, yeah, so that's how it happened. And then the entire, like, process started, where you have your interviews, your test meetings, your test shoots, all of that. But I kind of knew the second I had my test shoot with, like, Chris Cullen and everybody, I was like, I'm going to get the job. Like, I kind of knew it, but, I mean, I didn't keep it for that long.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Well, you kept it long enough. I think that you kept it long enough to learn a lot of things and then to, you know, recreate yourself, which is. Look.

[Erika Jayne]

I mean, it didn't make me realize that I wasn't my full self on those.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

That's the one thing about turning a camera onto yourself that I think sometimes people who aren't in our business don't have the luxury of doing, which is to see yourself.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And go, oh, God, yeah. Wow. That's really how I speak to others, or that's how I allow others to speak to me. Or I look crazy.

[Erika Jayne]

No, I was like a shell of a human being.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah, you can.

[Erika Jayne]

And I can assure you I'm going through a way fucking harder time now than I was then.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah, but you got chops now.

[Erika Jayne]

But it, like, it took a little time, and it was like, yeah, I mean, this. This is naturally who I am. I just. I deflated in that moment.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

But that's a very common thing to do. It's like when people say, oh, you're so much different. Like when we have this conversation. Of course I'm different. I'm having a conversation with a friend. I'm not in a shark tank right now.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I'm just open and able to talk to you about certain things.

[Erika Jayne]

What would you say the biggest pro and con are of being on the.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Show or being in reality television? I think the biggest pro is I've. It's, you know, kicked open a whole bunch of doors. For me, the biggest con has been, you know, what I went through publicly with Tom and subsequently everything after that, and having to live through that and pick yourself up and rebuild, which has been the hardest. What about you?

[Erika Jayne]

I would say the biggest pro is. Has one been that I've been able to kind of create all of this afterwards.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah.

[Erika Jayne]

And that I've had the support of all of you other ladies that have come in and been like, yeah, let's go. Let's do this. Let's make magic together. So that's been a pro. Along with parts of financial things, but also friendships, I have developed some real.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

True friends, but friends that when you are down, they're still there. They're still there. Like, down, down.

[Erika Jayne]

So that's the pros. And I've been able to give my, you know, my family a different life than I probably could have if it never happened. And the cons are I also gave my family a different life than they could have.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Well said. You know, you could have lived privately. Someone said this to me, if you weren't on a reality TV show, what would it have been like? The fallout with Tom? And I said, well, it would have been a very bad legal story.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

No one cares. But because you're on tv, then it becomes something else, bigger and its own monster. And I'm sure you feel the same way.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah. And then you get into this feeling of. You're like, do I. Do I fight back super hard, or do I just sit chilly? Or do I do this?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Like, there are no right or wrong.

[Erika Jayne]

There are no right or wrong.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

There's no right or wrong.

[Erika Jayne]

And I'm sure I'll keep making mistakes, guys. So just stay tuned.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Yeah, but you know what? Again, there's no handbook for. Everybody can assume that they know what you're going through. And yes, there have been a lot of divorces and whatever. Separations or whatever I went through, just. But to do it in a public forum is a whole other animal. And there are very few people that you can call and say, I feel like I'm going to blow my head off. And they go, yes, that's normal. Hold on a second, let me talk to. And you're going to be okay.

[Erika Jayne]

And I think something that I have learned through this that also has been pretty great with my friends, whether they're show friends I met through the show, or friends that my, you know, Mommy and me, or whatever it was, is the ability to have the strength to say, actually, I don't want to talk right now. Well, that's really fucking sad. Or, I'm really. I'm having a day. Or, hey, can we go? Let's go to lunch. Or let's do the. Like. We are allowed to have highs and lows. And I think for so long, I didn't believe I was allowed to have those.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Why? You just thought you had to be on all the time?

[Erika Jayne]

All the time.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Jesus. I thought that too, until I had nothing but lows and I gave up. It crushed me so hard. Like, the lows were so hard that I was like, I can't. I just can't. Like, it's. It's really from A to B. It's really from 9am to 11am I would check in with my therapist. Like, every. Like, her goal for me was every two to three hours. Like, if you can just make it till noon.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Consider that a goal. I'm like, really? She was like, yeah. That's how bad this shit is.

[Erika Jayne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

And I feel badly for anybody that's listening that doesn't have that kind of support, because it is important as human beings and as just women that, you know, we go through these things and we really should be there. I know it's hard and it sounds cliche, but for one another, more so than we really are. And stop judging everybody. You're fucked up too.

[Erika Jayne]

Listen. And it's fine. I think it's okay to, like. If you wanna make small talk and gossip about something, fucking do it.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I think that's wonderful and that's how we put ourselves out here. But also too, just remember, when you're pointing in that mirror, they're two pointing back. Just remember, right. That's two fingers pointing back at you.

[Erika Jayne]

Well, thank you guys for tuning in to another episode of Diamonds in the Rough. What should we get into next week?

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I don't know, but I think that we have. We need to get our claws into something good.

[Erika Jayne]

We will.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

How about in the comments? Oh, that's. Give us some suggestions. If you see something, you know, that you want to maybe talk about, give us a little suggestion.

[Erika Jayne]

Give us a suggestion and we could even comment on the comments.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

I like that too. I always like that.

[Erika Jayne]

We should clap back to our comments.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Well, or just laugh our asses off because sometimes they're just so good. But that means you'd have to turn off keywords.

[Erika Jayne]

The clown emoji.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

Oh, the clown.

[Erika Jayne]

You can't even write that on mine. Try it, Darren. Try it.

[Jeff Lewis Jr.]

All right. Thank you so much for listening.

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