Dirty Rush: Dropping my sister…that’s crazy!

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Dirty Rush: Dropping my sister…that’s crazy!"

Podcast: Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge (Host: iHeartPodcasts)
Episode: Dirty Rush: Dropping my sister…that’s crazy!
Date: August 16, 2025
Guests/Hosts: Gia Giudice, Jennifer Kessler (Jen Fessler), Daisy Kent
Caller/Guest: Grace

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Main Theme

This episode dives deep into the realities, myths, and behind-the-scenes truths of modern sorority recruitment ("Rush"), specifically addressing listener questions and caller stories—from sorority lingo, dirty rush, and blacklisting, to the evolving rules around legacy admissions. The co-hosts and callers reflect on their own unique rush experiences, expose the emotional highs and lows, and offer advice for those currently going through sorority recruitment or supporting someone who is.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Listener Questions: Why Sorority Talk Is Taboo & Breaking Down Lingo

(02:31–04:12, 05:00–11:00)

• Caller Rosie asks the hosts to discuss why sorority life is often taboo, and to break down basic terminology.
• The hosts agree that sorority life varies greatly from campus to campus, but there are national norms and a lot of jargon outsiders don’t understand.

Main Terms Explained:

• Dirty Rush: (05:01)
  • Gia: “Kind of like playing dirty… recruited by a sorority who had interest in us, but behind closed doors, before the official recruitment process.”
  • Daisy shares at San Diego State, frat guys often reported back to sororities about which girls were "cool and fun," influencing sorority picks.
  • Jen: “I'm guessing they were probably basing it off of something sort of physical. That's just my guess.” (06:40)
• Rogamma / Pi Chi: (07:00)
  • Daisy: Rogammas guide small groups of PNMs (potential new members) through rush, remaining anonymous about their own sorority until the end.
  • Gia: “We called them PIs or pies.”
• Bid: (09:25)
  • Gia: “A bid is basically when you are wanted by the sorority, right?”
  • Daisy: “At the end, I remember we got a little card and you opened it up—that was my bid to be an Alpha Phi.”
• Exec Board Roles: (10:05–13:09)
  • Gia did ‘special chair of events’: “I planned BMOC, Parents Weekend ... a super fun little position.”
  • Jen: “I did rush chair... meaning I was in charge of all the skits, the dances.”
  • Daisy: “I did Panhellenic delegate. ... I always knew the tea that was going on.”
• Risk Chair: (14:35)
  • Daisy: “You're the one always able to call if someone’s in trouble… at events, you have to be sober. You're always the bad guy.”

2. Changing Nature of Recruitment & Social Media

(12:25–13:09, 27:08–28:28)

• Gia notes social media is now a major component. When Jen rushed, it was just "a group of girls showing up, a big group, and us singing West Side Story and hoping that they were going to think that we were fabulous. It was just so different." (12:34)
• Daisy remarks that, back then, Panhellenic rules and campus involvement were more prominent, but now, technology drives much of recruitment.

3. Exploring Sorority Culture: Dormstorming, Suicide Bids, and Continuous Open Bidding (COB)

(15:58–20:31, 32:27–33:31)

• Dormstorming: Going dorm to dorm to recruit freshmen for sororities—not part of everyone’s experience but used at some schools.
• Suicide Bid: (18:30)
  • Daisy: “When you only put one sorority (on your preference card)... if that sorority doesn't pick you, you get nothing.”
  • Gia: “That’s why it’s called a suicide bid, because you could potentially risk not getting into a sorority at all.” (19:30)
• COB (Continuous Open Bidding): (32:27)
  • Grace: “That’s always a good option too. I wish I could have done that. Would have been so much easier.”
  • Gia: “If they have a couple of girls they can bring in, typically the semester after... a much chiller process.”

4. The Legacy Controversy—When Your Sorority Drops Your Family

(23:39–26:36)

• Caller Grace shares: “My sorority actually dropped both of [my younger sisters] in the first week.” (23:40)
• Gia notes that being a legacy “should always have that legacy of getting into that sorority wherever,” and blames COVID and new tech systems for messing this up.
• Jen: “That would have never happened back in the day. A sister? Forget it. No way.” (25:11)
• Now, voting is through an anonymous app rather than in-person, making these mistakes/oversights more common.

5. Emotional Toll and Parental Anxiety

(29:15–38:22)

• Grace describes the emotional rollercoaster for her sisters/cousin, noting the sharp drop from 10 invites to just 3 can be devastating.
• Jen: “Knowing that, like, I wanted anybody that was going to reject my daughter Rachel, they had to die a slow and painful death ... especially if it’s your own sorority rejecting your sister. No. Good.” (36:34)
• Daisy: “I definitely believe that it’s harder as a mom watching it. ... Anything I go through is 10x harder for her watching me.” (37:25)
• They discuss the hyper-scrutiny parents, especially moms, now apply—sometimes even using location apps to track their daughters during rush.

6. The Sophomore/Transfer Experience, Blacklisting, and Reputational Landmines

(39:12–41:41)

• Gia: “It’s a lot easier for girls to get blacklisted if they’re rushing sophomore year or if they’re a transfer … if you have a certain reputation...”
• She describes a sad story of a friend who was blacklisted for unknowingly hooking up with a sister’s boyfriend.
• Jen and Daisy note some schools try to restrict socializing with fraternities for new PNMs to avoid this.

7. Perspective and Advice to Listeners

(38:37, 42:13–42:42)

• The hosts strongly emphasize that while rush feels overwhelmingly important, in reality, “it doesn’t even matter” after college or even after freshman year.
• Daisy: “No matter what, you are going to be okay. Like, if you’re in a sorority, if you’re not in a sorority, you’re going to be fine...”
• Jen: “There’s so many. And I love you guys, The message that you guys are sending out that it’s going to be okay.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Dirty Rush and Frat Influence:
  "Having the frat guys do your homework. Literally doing the sorority’s homework." – Gia (06:30)
  "They weren't necessarily interested in what you were majoring in." – Jen (06:45)

• On Changing Recruitment:
  "We didn’t have social media, you guys. It was a whole different world. It was a group of girls showing up, a big group, and us singing West Side Story..." – Jen (12:34)

• Legacy Fumbling:
  “She should always have that legacy of getting into that sorority wherever. So they really screwed that up.” – Gia (24:03) “My sorority actually dropped both of them in the first week.” – Grace, caller (23:40)

• On Parental Hyper-Involvement:
  "I wanted anybody that was going to reject my daughter Rachel... slow and painful death. ...as a mom, you want the whole sorority, especially if it’s your sorority... wiped off the map." – Jen (36:34)

• Reality Check for Recruits:
  “It’s like a fever dream in the moment, but then it goes away.” – Gia (38:58) “No matter what, you are going to be okay.” – Daisy (39:01)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Sorority Jargon & Dirty Rush: 04:12–08:48
• Rush Chair/Social Media Shift: 12:12–13:09
• Legacy Issues & Dropping Sisters: 23:39–26:36
• Emotional Toll & Parent Anxiety: 29:07–38:22
• Blacklisting & Sophomore Rush: 39:12–41:41
• Final Perspective & Advice: 42:13–42:42

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Tone & Style

The episode has a candid, conversational style, mixing personal stories, laughter, and honest emotion. The hosts create a welcoming space for vulnerable confessions, and offer real talk as “insiders” with practical wisdom and support for listeners feeling lost or overwhelmed by sorority rush.

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For Listeners Going Through Rush (or Supporting Someone Who Is)

• You’re not alone: Everyone—newcomers, sisters, and even parents—struggles with the process at times.
• It’s okay if things don’t go as planned
• Support your friends and family: Their experience may feel raw or unfair, but it isn’t the end of the world.
• If you get dropped, blacklisted, or overlooked, there are always other options (COB), and life goes on.

Closing thought:
If you’re in the thick of recruitment drama, keep perspective—it’s a moment, not your whole life. And as these former members say: “No matter what, you'll be okay.”

Transcript

[Gia Giudice]

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[Jennifer Kessler]

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[Gia Giudice]

Welcome to Dirty Rush, the truth about Sorority Life with your hosts, me, Gia.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Giudice, Daisy Kent and Jennifer Kessler.

[Gia Giudice]

Hey guys and welcome back to another episode of Dirty Rush. We are so excited that you guys are loving this podcast as much as we are and Rush is happening right now for a lot of schools, so we are ready to dive deep. We we know people have been wanting this kind of show for years, and we're so glad that you're responding, calling in, leaving voicemails, and sharing your own rush experiences with the good and the bad. So let's get into it. I'm Gia Giudice.

[Jennifer Kessler]

I'm Jen Fessler.

[Daisy Kent]

And I'm Daisy Kent.

[Jennifer Kessler]

All right, guys, so we've had a lot of people calling in. Let's listen to our first caller.

[Gia Giudice]

Hi there. My name is Rosie. I wanted to call in and leave some constructive feedback. Like Fessler had mentioned, this is a.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Huge untapped market, and there is a.

[Gia Giudice]

Lot of taboo about talking about the sorority experience. And I think it would be super helpful if you all talked about it from a national perspective as well, like why we aren't really allowed to talk about sorority life and why we're not.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Allowed or where our letters in the.

[Gia Giudice]

Press and those types of things. And then also there was some lingo that I think if we could break down a little bit better, like what a press actually is, what a bid actually is, what a pledge is, what a mixer is, those very things that we talk about in the sorority world. And I think it would be just really helpful for the girls in terms of how to make an informed decision.

[Jennifer Kessler]

About joining sorority life or not.

[Gia Giudice]

And of course, it goes campus to campus. It's not a one size fits all approach. But if you are Teresa Giudice or, you know, a mama or dad that is new to the sorority life, or girl that's new to sorority life, what that looks like for you. I think giving these behind the scenes.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Facts is so helpful for women that.

[Gia Giudice]

Are thinking about joining this experience. There's a lot to unpack during.

[Daisy Kent]

Okay.

[Gia Giudice]

Dirty rushing.

[Jennifer Kessler]

I thought it was sort of now, not when I was going through it, but when you rush before school even started. Right. And, like, that whole rush process, I hear in a lot of schools happens before rush.

[Gia Giudice]

Okay. So my ver. My definition of, like, dirty rush was when, like, kind of like playing dirty. So when we were at Rutgers first semester, we would almost kind of get recruited by a sorority who had interest in us, but behind closed doors. So kind of try to pers. They were basically trying to persuade us to go to a sorority before the rushing process started so that our minds were made up before going through the recruitment process.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Okay.

[Daisy Kent]

Mine was kind of like, because we did recruitment right when we got to school, I think we were at school, like, maybe like two weeks. And then we went into recruitment. And so I would say ours was at San Diego State. You would, like, go out to all the frat parties and meet all the frat guys. None of the, like, actual sorority girls could go out because, I don't know, you, like, weren't allowed. That was, like, your, like, dry period or whatever. And so you would go and you would meet all these guys, and they were older guys, like, in the frats. And then they would all tell the sorority girls, like, what girls they thought were, like, cool and fun to hang out with and stuff like that. Wait, that's ever going to the parties? And I had no idea that was happening. And then I remember when I was, like, a sophomore, and I was like, oh, my gosh, this is crazy, but it was so fun, honestly.

[Gia Giudice]

Wait, that's a wild definition of dirty Russian. Having the frat guys do your homework. Literally doing the sorority's homework.

[Daisy Kent]

Right.

[Jennifer Kessler]

I'm guessing they were probably basing it off of something sort of physical. That's just my guess.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Kessler]

They weren't necessarily interested in what you were majoring in.

[Daisy Kent]

Probably.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah, probably. What about you guys? What about this other lingo? Rogamma.

[Daisy Kent]

Rogamma. Okay, for me, that was, like, when you get divided into groups, so, like, you sign up for recruitment and then say there's. They have, like, a bunch of row Gramma Gammas. So I was with a group of, like, 10 girls, and then we have one Rogamma, and she's already in a sorority. An older girl in a sorority. You don't know what sorority she's in, but she's trying to, like, help you navigate it and help you find the best, like, place that's the best, like, home and fit for you.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Kessler]

So she's in a sorority, but she doesn't have any. She doesn't try to influence you?

[Gia Giudice]

No, they can't. Like, they're not allowed.

[Grace (Caller)]

So they're.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Anyway, no, no.

[Gia Giudice]

You don't find out until the end. I mean, you'll try to guess who, like, what sorority they're in as you're going through recruitment, but they're basically in charge of, like, little groups. Like Daisy said, my definition was pretty much the same thing, except I didn't call them rogammas. They were called PIs Pies.

[Jennifer Kessler]

We didn't have any of this.

[Gia Giudice]

No. You didn't have someone, like, leading you and directing you through, like, to. To houses and stuff?

[Jennifer Kessler]

I mean, we definitely had people leading us through, but there was no. I don't remember talking to anyone. But, you know, the girls that I was grouped with, it wasn't Nobody was giving advice or, you know. No, I don't. And if. If there was someone. We didn't call them Rogammas. We probably just call them that nice girl who's helping.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah. It. Honestly, it was so helpful. I remember it. I forget the name of mine, but she was so insanely nice.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Really?

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah. No, I mean, they were definitely super helpful. And it was so funny because during the recruitment process, we would all try to guess what sorority they were from and what sorority they were in. And basically at the end, they would all reveal which sorority they were in and everyone freaked out and, like, clapped their hands. It was honestly kind of stupid, but I mean, everyone, like. Everyone got, like, so hyped, like, learning what sorority they were actually in and when they, like, revealed their identity. But it was.

[Grace (Caller)]

I don't know.

[Gia Giudice]

Some of the things really made me. Make me.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah.

[Grace (Caller)]

Literally.

[Jennifer Kessler]

What other. What about what other. What other lingo?

[Daisy Kent]

I think she asked what a bid was.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah.

[Grace (Caller)]

Okay.

[Gia Giudice]

So a bid is basically when you are wanted by the sorority, right?

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Daisy Kent]

So, like, at the end, I remember we, like, got a little card and you, like, opened it up and like, that was my bid to be an Alpha fee.

[Grace (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

And then I guess technically during. I guess as you get called back, I guess that's not really a bid, but I guess it's like when the sororities are also showing interest in you that they want you back.

[Jennifer Kessler]

So. Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

Hoping to get a potential bid at the end.

[Daisy Kent]

For sure.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Were there one of you guys on exact boards?

[Gia Giudice]

I was.

[Jennifer Kessler]

You are? I was about that.

[Gia Giudice]

G. Yeah. So, I mean, one. They say it looks great on your resume, so that is something good just to have, like, under your belt.

[Grace (Caller)]

But.

[Gia Giudice]

You know, you can obviously be the president, the vice president, treasurer, take one of those lead roles on. But they do take a lot of responsibility. So I wanted to do something that was a little more fun and maybe not as much responsibility. So I was special chair of events. So I basically coordinated, like, all of our big events, which I like doing anyway. I kind of like party planning. So I planned, like, our B mock, which was big man on campus for at Rutgers. And that was like our breast cancer walk, because that was our philanthropy. Breast cancer. And so I planned BMOC Parents Weekend and a lot of the bigger events that Zeta would do at Rutgers. So that was a super fun, like, little position to have on the. On the board. But I wasn't like, an exec, because wasn't the execs, like, that's like the first tier, and then I was.

[Daisy Kent]

And there's, like, ones under it.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

So I was the ones, like, under it. But then exec is like, the people who are all sitting at the front during your chapter meetings.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah. I did rush chair.

[Daisy Kent]

Your rush chair. Oh, my gosh. That'd be so fun.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah. And I. I wrote all of these songs to you guys. Probably even know west side Story, like, back in the day, but I wrote all. When you're a fi. You're a fi. All the way. Like, all of this, like, the dances. And that was, like.

[Gia Giudice]

You were definitely a nice rush chair. Yeah, Rush chair was rough.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Well, what is it? I mean, back then, I was rush chair, meaning that I was, like. I was in charge of, like, all of the skits. Yeah.

[Daisy Kent]

I like putting it together. Yeah. That's your little dances, right?

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yes. That's what it is. Right. I mean, I certainly didn't do anything. Like.

[Gia Giudice]

I think it's also mainly now, also, like, going through the social media and the Instagrams and finding your potential recruits that you really want.

[Jennifer Kessler]

We didn't have social media, you guys. It was a whole different world. It was a group of girls showing up, a big group, and us singing west side Story and hoping that they were going to think that we were fabulous. It was just so different.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah, it is so different with social media. I was on an exec, too. I did Panhellenic delegate. So I, like, went and met with the school and met with Panhellenic when they came in and talked to them. So that was really interesting, because our school approved.

[Grace (Caller)]

Yeah.

[Daisy Kent]

And, like, if you're. You were on, like, probation or something like that, if your sorority or whatever was because you would show up to the meeting. Meeting at school on campus, and then it would be like, all the other sororities there, too, which it was fun because I was friends with a bunch of girls and other sororities, too. So it was kind of a way to, like, mix and mingle that way, too. And you could, like, pair up with the sorority and, like, do things together. So it was fun. But I definitely, like. I always knew, like, the tea that was going on, I felt like. But then I also had to, like, do accreditation for people, so accreditation was like. I think a good thing about sororities is that they, like, they make you do community service. You have to keep a certain gpa. So I was in charge of, like, tracking all of that and making sure girls got the amount of community service they had to do, making sure they were still at, like, a GPA and then making sure they went to, like, certain events that, like, supported other philanthropies too. We did that. So, yeah, that's what I did.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Did you enjoy it? Would you suggest it?

[Daisy Kent]

So I actually. I wasn't gonna do it. And then they, like, needed somebody, and people were asking me to do it, and I was like, okay, I'll. I guess I'll do it.

[Grace (Caller)]

So.

[Gia Giudice]

A little forced.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah. But honestly, I, like.

[Gia Giudice]

I think that's kind of how I did it too.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

I can't see me, like, just volunteering, wanting, and it kept on more responsibility.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Kessler]

I think.

[Daisy Kent]

Do you know what I think is the hardest job on execrable is risk chair.

[Gia Giudice]

Oh, my God. I know.

[Jennifer Kessler]

That's where you. I think from what I remember from my son, because I think he did. Don't you sit outside of parties for boy. Is that what that is?

[Daisy Kent]

And you can't kind of. You're just, like. You're in charge of, like, the girls at your sorority. So if someone, like, is in, like, trouble or if someone, like, drinks too much, if something like that happens, like, you're the one, like, people are always, like, able to call kind of. And at, like, pref and, like, formals, you're in charge of, like, being the one kind of.

[Gia Giudice]

You have to be sober. Yup.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

Risk chair. You have to be sober at these events. And I mean, of course, you know, sometimes maybe they'll sneak a drink or two, but I think it. And you're always the bad guy.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah, you're always the bad guy. That's why I think it's the hardest, like, one to be. Because you always have to be, like, keeping everyone.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Remember that for my son, like, he'd be on a cell phone, like, outside whatever party. Like, this sucks. I don't know why I volunteered for this.

[Gia Giudice]

I mean, because he probably had a monitor who was coming in and out of the frat.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

It's not a fun. Not a fun job.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah.

[Daisy Kent]

All right.

[Jennifer Kessler]

So any other lingo, you guys? I mean, I'm sure we're gonna come up with more.

[Gia Giudice]

We'll remember dormstorming dorms, which. This is, like, interesting, but, like, I don't think this was a part of, like, my recruitment process. I think it was just the normal thing to do when you were a freshman. So apparently dormstorming is it. It's basically going from door to door in your dorm or residence halls to basically, like, interact with the people on your whole, like, on your hall and just like, kind of recruit them for recruitment. But I don't think anyone ever did that. Like, I think it was mainly, like, for us. Going into my freshman year, it was normal. Like, I remember I was setting up my dorm room freshman year, and one of my good friends was a cheerleader at Rutgers, and she, like, just walked into my dorm room, was like, hey, so, like, I'm a cheerleader here at Rutgers. And was, like, so giddy. And I was like, oh, my God, what is going on? But she's. She was, like, at Rutgers all summer because she was training and, like, practicing for the cheer team. So she was, like, so excited when we all moved in because she was like, I've been so lonely all summer. Like, I'm so excited to meet new friends. And I think it was just the normal thing to do as a freshman. Just kind of knock on everyone's door, introduce yourself, and kind of get to know people just going into school. I don't think it really had anything to do necessarily with recruitment. What do you guys think?

[Daisy Kent]

I honestly have never heard of that before, but.

[Gia Giudice]

But you did the same thing. Right on. When you were a freshman, you kind of went to people's doors, introduced yourself, made the friends of people on your hall 100.

[Daisy Kent]

And we kept our, like, dorm door always open, me and my roommate Christy. It's actually funny. Thor, my boyfriend, was my next door neighbor in the dorm.

[Gia Giudice]

That's so funny. And so you probably met him by, like.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Your boyfriend's name is Thor? Yeah, I love Daisy and Thor. That's like its own episode. We're gonna have to talk about that.

[Daisy Kent]

I was like. It was funny when we were moving in together, because people were like, oh, how is it, like, moving in together? And I was like, well, you know, when I was 19, he definitely saw me at my worst and my best. And then dorm room next door. So I was like, I don't think I can be much, much worse than that.

[Gia Giudice]

He saw it all.

[Jennifer Kessler]

What about a suicide bid?

[Gia Giudice]

That was a risky thing.

[Grace (Caller)]

Oh, yeah.

[Daisy Kent]

So that's like, when you only. I mean, from my knowledge, if. Because I remember a rogue, I'm like, telling us not to do this. It's when you only put, like, one sorority. So say you're on pref. Pref is the last night before you go to get your bid, and you have two sororities. And I didn't want one at all, but I wanted the other one. And I only put, like, alpha fee, and I didn't put anything else.

[Jennifer Kessler]

And they know that. They know that you're like, yeah, all in.

[Gia Giudice]

Yes. Because then if you only put down one, like during, like on prep day, like after you go to the voting room and you kind of rank which sorority you want from greatest to least. So 1, 2, 3, and. Or is it 2 for Prof. Or is it 3? Do you guys remember you?

[Daisy Kent]

Mine was to you only recently.

[Gia Giudice]

Okay, so then it probably is. Oh, yeah, because I. I preft. I think G5 and Zeta. So yeah, I think it is maybe two. And then if you only put one sorority down and that sorority ended up not choosing you, then you. You get into nothing. So that's why it's called suicide bid, because you could potentially risk not getting into a sorority at all. So you just went through this whole process and then you could essentially like end up with nothing.

[Daisy Kent]

And I think it's because the sorority, I don't think they necessarily know, but Panhellenic knows, because Panhellenic, it's like the sorority will put their bid in for you, and then you put what you want and then it kind of like matches up that way. But Panhellenic, I think, hates it when you do just one. So I think that that's part of the reason why too.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Daisy Kent]

It's like.

[Grace (Caller)]

I don't know.

[Daisy Kent]

It's like so much. I'm like thinking back to that time.

[Jennifer Kessler]

I'm like, whoa, imagine, imagine. And I think probably, Daisy, it was better that you didn't know anything going in.

[Daisy Kent]

I don't know if that's the case everywhere, honestly. Yeah. 100. I think I would have been like losing my mind a little bit. But also, I think San Diego State, like, is not as intense at all as like other schools. So I mean, at first when I first went in, I was like, what am I doing? And then I stuck with it because my roommate and like, I'm so happy I did. I ended up having the time of my life.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Foreign.

[Gia Giudice]

Before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes. Shopping used to feel more fun. But here's a confession. Twat stirrers. You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. Because on ebay, it's not just shopping. It's a full on fashion pursuit. And when you find the thing that adrenaline hit is real. I have sold clothes on ebay and know the feeling of finding the perfect item on ebay.

[Grace (Caller)]

I.

[Gia Giudice]

My daughter Sophia is the one who inspired me to use ebay. She loves it as well. We are big fans. It's about the thrill of finding pieces that feel like me. And I want you to find the pieces that feel like you. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee eBay things people love did you know?

[Commercial Announcer]

Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop, voted PCMag's Reader's Choice top laptop brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere, and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com iHeart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice used with permission. All rights reserved. The world's best ski and snowboard athletes are chasing medals. Now you can follow their every move. Join Insider, the official US Ski and Snowboard fan loyalty program, and get premium viewing at World cup ski events, exclusive athlete meetups, discounts from brands you love, and a custom welcome gift mailed direct to your doorstep this winter. Show your support as they race for the podium. Head to Insider USA ski and snowboard.org and join today. Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Whimsound smart speaker. Get high resolution audio with a 1.8-inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just $2.99. From quiet mornings to lively holiday gatherings, WinSound makes every moment sound better and feel better too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for for yourself. Whim Sound Beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search Whim Sound that's W I I M S O u n D.

[Daisy Kent]

Let's bring in the caller.

[Gia Giudice]

Hi Grace.

[Grace (Caller)]

Another interesting element is I have a younger two younger sisters. One of them went through rush two years later while I was at school and one is going through rush right now. But the interesting thing is that my sorority actually dropped both of them in the first we.

[Gia Giudice]

You actually just reminded me of something that I was gonna say to you that during COVID though that was also of something that happened very often. They screwed up. Kind of like the legacy, you know, of a sister when cause it doesn't matter. Across all boards. Say your sister didn't even go to the same college that you went to. She should always have that legacy of getting into that sorority wherever. So they really screwed that up. I know for a fact cove during COVID and not during COVID It seems to be always a mistake.

[Grace (Caller)]

But wow that would have been interesting somehow. I think that happened at my school, too, where it just messed up the way that they did things to where legacy really was not as important as it may have used to been. And that is something that really put me off.

[Gia Giudice]

And just that you contact your sorority after.

[Grace (Caller)]

Yeah, I did. And they had zero good excuse for it. They were like, oh, it must have just slipped through the cracks.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Kessler]

You guys, where do. When they vote now, like. Because that would have never happened back in the day. A sister. Forget it. No way. But that was also a time where you. Everybody would put their heads down and you would, like, raise your hand. Like, it wasn't, like, social. Like, you can vote now. Is there, like, an app that you can vote on? So, like, it's so anonymous.

[Grace (Caller)]

Yeah, that's what they use in ours is you, like, rank people through an app and a lot more of it is done through technology. So maybe that's how people kind of.

[Daisy Kent]

Slip through the cracks.

[Gia Giudice]

But what was that app called?

[Grace (Caller)]

I forget not remember for the life of me.

[Daisy Kent]

But it.

[Gia Giudice]

It was. And yeah, it was like a whole system.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah. No, I just. There was. That would not. That wouldn't have happened. I don't think it's on paper. Yeah. Yeah. When I went in, it was best computer. We had three. Three of my best friends were already in a five because I was a transfer student. And it was just. Nobody was going to go. I mean, there were three of them, so nobody was going to give them, you know, any. So it was kind of like a shoe and butt. I. But even like that, like, if you had a mother that was a five, you were getting in.

[Grace (Caller)]

Yeah, See, that's an interesting thing too, because I had an aunt that went to the same school as me, and she was like, oh, you definitely will be able to get through and just be a Kappa, because that's what she was.

[Gia Giudice]

And.

[Grace (Caller)]

Nope, they dropped me both times. I rushed.

[Daisy Kent]

It will be interesting to, like, see how Greek life evolves, even, like, in the next, like, 10 years.

[Grace (Caller)]

I know. I think so, too, because it's weird. I feel like I've seen so much change in the years that I was in school and. Yeah, it seems to be evolving a lot, so.

[Daisy Kent]

Oh, a hundred percent.

[Gia Giudice]

I think sororities used to be more fun back in. Back probably when you were in a sorority, Jen. Than they were now. I mean, than they are now.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah, it was fun, but there was other, you know, there was other shitty things that happened back then that wouldn't happen today. Right. I mean, you know, just a lot of stuff, like the mixing with the frats and, you know, getting called and, like, standing in front of the house, like when you got your bid. And then I think I told you guys about this a couple episodes ago, but, like, all the boys would show up and, like, pick a. I don't know, there was a bunch of just.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Like, just in case you had self esteem for a minute, because you got in, like, next. The next minute. You're the only one without. Maybe this is just my experience without a date.

[Gia Giudice]

I mean, that was always right, but.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yes, but. I mean, it was. No, we didn't have to contend with a lot of the stuff. I don't even know how you guys do it now. It's a lot. Especially looking at these schools in the south and what's going on. It's absolutely over the top. Crazy, right?

[Grace (Caller)]

Yeah, it is pretty insane. And just, I think the social media element.

[Gia Giudice]

Grace, if you don't mind me asking, what school was it?

[Grace (Caller)]

I don't think. I don't think I want to say.

[Gia Giudice]

Okay, no problem, no problem. But you were. You said it was down south, though.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

So it was really intense.

[Grace (Caller)]

Yeah. Big Texas school say that. And so just very intense. And the moms, even, are very intense. The whole ordeal, it's just. I don't know, to a certain extent, I liked it and I gained a lot of great friends out of it. But looking back, there's so much superficialness to the whole thing that just makes me feel a little bit icky.

[Gia Giudice]

That's why I was. I feel like it used to be way more authentic than what it is now.

[Grace (Caller)]

Yeah, definitely.

[Jennifer Kessler]

It was always superficial, though, guys. There was always a level of that, I think. I mean.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah, I feel like it is. And then you gotta get, like, past that and find your, like, good friends.

[Grace (Caller)]

Yeah, it's definitely the core of all of it. Once you find, like, your friends from it, that's what you.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

So your sister and your cousin are in it right now. I remember when my sisters were rushing, I was so nervous for them. So you probably feel the pressure.

[Grace (Caller)]

Yeah, I am feeling the pressure a little bit. I mostly just feel for them so much because I know how it feels to go through the process and have it go really poorly or have it go really well. And even when it is going well, it's not a cakewalk. Like, it still is intense and it brings up so much emotion. So they have both been calling me constantly in tears or so happy. And it's it's such a roller coaster, you know, and so I'm trying to support them through it the best I can. And luckily, I can empathize. So that's definitely something that's been really cool throughout the whole process. But mostly I'm just excited for them to be done with it and start school and get to actually feel the benefit of the crazy process that they've been through. But one of them, my sister, it's going really well for. She's gotten maybe not all the houses back, but a lot of the ones that she likes. And then, unfortunately, my cousin, it's a little bit more touch and go. She's not sure about the houses that she had back. Originally, she got all. I think it was 10 that you could get in the first round. She got 10 back. She was kind of on top of the world. And then actually this morning, she found out that she got, I think, only three out of six back for the next round. So I know that that's been kind of hard on her.

[Gia Giudice]

It's crazy that drop that can happen.

[Grace (Caller)]

Yeah, I know. It happens so fast, I bet, because, I mean, getting 10 knock, that's pretty rare. It's a big deal.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah.

[Grace (Caller)]

So to go from 10 to three, I mean, my heart just hurts like that never feels good, even.

[Jennifer Kessler]

If you're so glad she has you, though.

[Grace (Caller)]

I'm really glad that I can help them through it because I know that when I was going through the process, I really wish that I had more people that I could kind of lean on who had gone through it and understood.

[Jennifer Kessler]

And maybe there is something to be said, these sorority coaches. Maybe there is, like, you know, something to have somebody who's actually does it professionally and understands what can happen at any given moment and can kind of coach you, you know, through it a little bit and help out. Just the whole. The emotions of it all.

[Gia Giudice]

Maybe if it's a nice sorority coach, they're looking out for your mental health and not maybe what color you should change your hair.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Right.

[Gia Giudice]

I mean, at least you went through kind of, I guess, both experiences, Grace. Like, you had one that wasn't so great and one that obviously it got better at the end. So I feel like that definitely, you know, is helping your cousin out right now, because even if things don't go as planned for her right now, just tell her to try again. Mm.

[Grace (Caller)]

I know. I think that could be good. And they have COB and all of that, so I know that she'll be fine. And if it's meant to be she'll find that home eventually. And who knows, Even throughout.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Oh my God.

[Gia Giudice]

Yes. The COB is. You just brought up another sorority.

[Jennifer Kessler]

What is it? I don't know what it is.

[Grace (Caller)]

So continue open bidding, right? Yeah.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

Like you basically just kind of get accepted in, right? It's if you're. It's after rush and they have a couple of girls that they can bring in if they want. But typically it happens the semester after.

[Grace (Caller)]

Yeah, I think it's if the sorority doesn't meet their quota or if some people like end up accepting a bid but then not going to. They'll have extra spots and they'll kind of like just. Yeah, it's a much chiller process. They'll kind of just be like, they.

[Gia Giudice]

Don'T have to do anything. They just walk in the door, you.

[Grace (Caller)]

Know, she wants to be a theater or whatever. And they're like, welcome.

[Jennifer Kessler]

What does it stand for?

[Daisy Kent]

Cop.

[Grace (Caller)]

Continuous Open Bidding.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Got it.

[Grace (Caller)]

So that's always a good option too. I wish I could have done that. Would have been so much easier.

[Gia Giudice]

You know, I hope your cousin's experience only goes up from here. And I'm happy that your sister. Yes, doing great.

[Daisy Kent]

Before all the algorithm fed blah and.

[Gia Giudice]

The endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more fun.

[Daisy Kent]

But here's a confession.

[Gia Giudice]

Are you a Charlotte listeners?

[Daisy Kent]

You can find that fun feeling again on ebay.

[Gia Giudice]

Because on ebay it's not just shopping, it's a full on fashion pursuit.

[Jennifer Kessler]

And when you find the thing that.

[Daisy Kent]

Adrenaline hit is real.

[Gia Giudice]

I went on to ebay to look for a super special vintage jacket for Charlotte to wear to the gallery.

[Daisy Kent]

And I found the most amazing Mugler jacket.

[Jennifer Kessler]

And the costume department loved it.

[Gia Giudice]

And it felt so good. And I still have it at home. Like when you score that rare Adidas.

[Daisy Kent]

Collab that's lived on your mood board or the Dior saddle bag that you ripped right out of a magazine in 2007 and never got over.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah, those. It's about the thrill and the pursuit of finding those pieces that feel like you. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee eBay things people love.

[Commercial Announcer]

Did you know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop. Voted PCMag's Reader's Choice Top Laptop Rank brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere. And Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com iheart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11 PCMag Reader's Choice. Used with permission. All rights reserved. The world's best ski and snowboard athletes are chasing medals. Now you can follow their every move. Join Insider, the official US Ski and snowboard snowboard fan loyalty program, and get premium viewing at World cup ski events, exclusive athlete meetups, discounts from brands you love, and a custom welcome gift mailed direct to your doorstep. This winter, show your support as they race for the podium. Head to insider.usski and snowboard.org and join today. Bring incredible sound into every corner of your home this holiday with the new Wimsound smart speaker. Get high resolution audio with a 1.8-inch touchscreen, smart control and modern design in one powerful speaker for just $2.99. From quiet mornings to lively holiday gatherings, Winsound makes every moment sound better and feel better, too. Get the gift of the season for the music enthusiast in your life or for yourself? Whim sound Beautifully designed, effortlessly connected. Shop now at Amazon and search whimsound. That's W I I M S O U N D.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Wow. Okay, you guys, I. I feel for her, obviously. I feel for her cousin and her sister. But to be outside of it and somebody you love is going through it. And again, I mean, I had a daughter go through it and it's a different experience. It's almost harder, I think. I don't know. It's just knowing that, like, I wanted anybody that was going to reject my daughter Rachel, they had to die a slow and painful death. It's still like that. Like, she doesn't get a job or she doesn't get the boy that has it. No, it has to be slow and painful. That person is dead, must be wiped off the map. So, like, you know, as a mom of it or cut like you want the whole sorority, especially if it's your sorority. Imagine your own sorority is rejecting your sister. No. Good.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah. No, I definitely believe that it's harder as a mom watching it because I even, I think about my mom and like, anything I've gone through in my life. I remember one time she told me, she said anything that I go through is 10 times harder than anything she's ever gone through. Like, for her, like, watching having to, like, watch me go through it if I'm like, going through something hard. So I totally believe that. And my little sister, too. Someone does her wrong.

[Gia Giudice]

I'm like, oh, yeah, I want to pound.

[Daisy Kent]

Oh, that's it, you guys See that?

[Jennifer Kessler]

There's a tick tock right now of this mom who has life360 or whatever it is. So she's following her daughter through the process. She's like, okay, now she's at. I don't know, now she's at Theta. Now she's. Oh, my God, why did she stay in Theta for so long? Why didn't she walk out, you guys? No, it's.

[Gia Giudice]

That's a little crazy.

[Daisy Kent]

I can't.

[Gia Giudice]

I would be like, mug, get off.

[Jennifer Kessler]

I might have done that if it was, if it wasn't all on zoom. But she's like freaking out. Like, wait a second, wait a second. Why is she out on the porch? Why isn't she going in? Is she taught? Like, just the whole thing is so hyper.

[Gia Giudice]

Analyzing the.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

I mean, I think right now, obviously, even for Grace and her cousin and her sister, I know it feels like the end of the world. But after college or even after your freshman year, literally, it doesn't even matter.

[Daisy Kent]

It doesn't matter. Matter. It's like, it's such. That's why I hate how, like it's.

[Gia Giudice]

It's like a fever dream in the moment, but then it goes away.

[Daisy Kent]

Like, no matter what, you are going to be okay. Like, if you're in a sorority, if you're not in a sorority, you're going to be fine. Like, everything is going to be amazing. But it's like in that moment, for.

[Gia Giudice]

Some people, so many of my friends didn't rush. Some of them got dropped from everything. Some of them didn't have the gpa. And, you know, a lot of my friends, you wouldn't expect them to get dropped either. Pretty girls, you wouldn't, you wouldn't think that they would. But it's also hard if you get blacklisted or if you have a certain reputation from.

[Jennifer Kessler]

I want to talk about that on one of our episodes, guys, about getting blacklisted and what that, what that's about. Definitely.

[Gia Giudice]

Well, I think it's a lot easier for girls to get blacklisted if they're rushing their sophomore year or if they're a transfer, because then it allows, obviously, the sororities to get to know you and look at you while you're out. And if they kind of don't like what they see, then you could get blacklisted. Or if you're screwing a sorority sister's boyfriend or this or that. And that's why this one girl got blacklisted, because she was. She didn't know. And that's the hard part. As a freshman, you don't know these frat boys and who they're dating and all the ties and literally, I felt so bad. But my one friend in college, she got blacklisted and she couldn't rush because she ended up having sex with someone's boyfriend.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

And she had no idea.

[Jennifer Kessler]

I don't think the girls and I could be. I'm just thinking about a Delaware. Like, I don't think that they were allowed as freshmen to go to parties, like, with frat boys because of that very thing. Once you were in, you couldn't.

[Gia Giudice]

But what if you didn't rush your freshman year?

[Jennifer Kessler]

Give a. And you went. But if you were rushing or in.

[Gia Giudice]

A sorority, then you weren't allowed.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah, well, we always went.

[Daisy Kent]

I don't know if I was supposed to or not, I guess.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

We weren't allowed to go out, like, during the rush process, but I definitely went out first semester for sure. And then. Yeah. I mean, if girls didn't have the GPA and weren't allowed to rush freshman year.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

My friends went out and I think you're the craziest. Your freshman year. I could be wrong. Like, I feel like that's the worst.

[Grace (Caller)]

Like.

[Gia Giudice]

Like everyone was.

[Daisy Kent]

Freshman year is crazy. Honestly, though, there's nothing like it, though. It's so fun, too, so. No, it was.

[Gia Giudice]

Was one of my. My best year my freshman year.

[Daisy Kent]

Right.

[Gia Giudice]

My best year.

[Daisy Kent]

It's just everything's so new and exciting and scary, too. But it's like, all of that, like, compiled together makes it great.

[Jennifer Kessler]

She felt bad for anyone that didn't go to Delaware. I was like, rachel, I feel like they're okay. Like, they're getting through.

[Daisy Kent]

It's funny.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah. Which is a great way to feel. Not everybody does.

[Daisy Kent]

Oh, my gosh. For sure.

[Jennifer Kessler]

For sure. There's so many. And I love you guys. The message that you guys are sending out that it's going to be okay. And this is coming from two girls. I love being in a sorority, you know, and that you're. You have so many friends who it didn't work out for in terms of whatever.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Getting into the top tier.

[Daisy Kent]

Definitely. Yeah. So anyone listening? If you're going through it, if you went through it, or if you're a mom watching your daughter go through it, or a sibling or anyone, no matter what, it'll be okay.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Thank you, Miss Daisy.

[Commercial Announcer]

Did you know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10 Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop Voted PCMag's Reader's Choice Top Laptop Brand for 2020 Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere, and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit lgusa.com iheart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Gia Giudice]

This is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Something do you know the symptoms of.

[Gia Giudice]

Moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Osa, in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing.

[Gia Giudice]

If anyone has ever said you snored loudly, or if you spend your days.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation.

[Gia Giudice]

Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Information is provided by Lilly, a medicine.

[Gia Giudice]

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[Commercial Announcer]

Get into the spirit with Vizio's My Hub, a new, simpler way to find everything you Love on Vizio TV. This holiday season, MyHub is your destination to discover new movies and shows tailored to you, find exclusive deals and discounts, and keep your favorites organized in one convenient place. Plus, Vizio TVs have all your favorite apps built in like iHeartRadio so you can stream that festive music playlist. MyHub makes it simpler to find what you want when you want it. Visit vizio.com iheart and experience entertainment made easy today.

[Gia Giudice]

This is an iheart podcast. Guaranteed human.