Dirty Rush: No, seriously…are Rush Coaches B*llsh*t​?

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge (special episode of "Dirty Rush" with Gia Giudice & Jen Fessler)
Episode: "Dirty Rush: No, seriously…are Rush Coaches Bllsht?"
Release Date: August 23, 2025
Guests: Leslie Cunningham (Sorority Coach, founder of Sorority Prep)

---

Overview of the Episode

This episode dives deep into the growing phenomenon of "sorority coaches"—consultants hired to help young women navigate the high-stakes world of sorority recruitment, or "rush." Hosts Gia Giudice and Jen Fessler question their guest, Leslie Cunningham, a prominent sorority coach based in Texas, about the legitimacy, mental health aspect, and sometimes controversial nature of her work. The conversation covers how coaching works, the ethical gray areas, financial cost, social implications, and whether the process genuinely helps women or simply perpetuates superficiality.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Is a Sorority Coach?

• Definition and Services Offered
  • Leslie defines her role as providing support and guidance for young women (and their mothers) going through sorority recruitment.
  • She helps demystify the process, builds confidence, and preps her clients for what to expect—ranging from handling rejection to putting their best foot forward socially and mentally (05:20–06:28).

Who Seeks Sorority Coaching & Where?

• Primarily clients in the southern U.S., where Greek life is highly competitive, but interest is growing in the Northeast (06:40).
• Clients can be as young as high school seniors up to upperclassmen deciding to rush later (26:55).

The Mental Health Component

• Leslie emphasizes a recent pivot: partnering with licensed counselors to support both daughters and their mothers during the stressful recruitment process (07:49–09:06).
• Recognizes recruitment can be the first major rejection experience many young women face, leading to anxiety that she aims to help them prepare for.

Superficiality, Image, and Authenticity

• The hosts probe whether coaching perpetuates a focus on superficial attributes like tanning, makeup, and fashion (09:06).
  • Leslie admits "presenting your best self" is part of the process but emphasizes not "transforming" a client's personality or values to fit an arbitrary standard (10:54–12:39).
  • She advocates for finding a group where you genuinely fit in—not contorting oneself to chase a particular "top" sorority.

On Giving Image Advice

• Leslie concedes she does provide guidance on appearance—much like one would for a job interview or important event—while still focusing on personal confidence (12:52, 14:16).
  • "If it helps you to slap on a little lip gloss and feel good, then that’s what we want." (14:16)

Social Media Scrubbing & Perception

• Coaches review client social media, recommending posts reflect genuine interests, community connections, and positive group images.
• Warns against overly selfie-oriented or highly curated profiles, which can come off as inauthentic (21:15–22:28).
• Advises those without active social lives on social media to "find opportunities" to convey community or involvement.

Cost and Business Model

• Coaching packages can range up to $3,000 for a full recruitment cycle, with hourly options available at $250–300/hr (24:58–25:56).
• Leslie claims her clients virtually always find a sorority placement, although sometimes not the one they originally wanted (26:07).

Combatting Rush Myths, Peer Pressure, and Top-Tier Stereotypes

• Leslie works hard to reframe the obsession with "top tier" houses. She coaches clients to block out external pressure from peers, roomates, and even family (29:35).
  • "There is no bad sorority on any campus. It's really your perception." (10:54)
  • She stresses that belonging and genuine connections matter more than prestige.

Criticisms & Ethical Dilemmas

• Jen voices skepticism about the ethics and necessity of sorority coaching: Is it about helping women grow, or manufacturing a persona just to get selected? (33:30–34:43)
• Leslie responds that her work is about confidence-building, support, and life skills, not turning girls into something they're not (31:33).

Practical Tips for PNMs (Potential New Members)

• Focus less on outfits and more on conversational skills, making friends, and presenting oneself genuinely (40:17).
• Letters of recommendation are less important than real engagement and showing authentic interest.

Hosts’ Reflections (Post-interview)

• Gia and Jen express continued skepticism about the necessity and implications of paying thousands for something they feel should be authentic—a process more about making meaningful connections than orchestrated self-presentation (43:10–48:38).
• They question whether this is a privilege for wealthy families, potentially adding needless stress and expense to an already costly college experience.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On the Role of a Rush Coach

"I just kind of step in where the girls are in their nerves and questions and curiosity and just help them to understand everything it's going to entail when they decide to, you know, embark on this journey."
— Leslie Cunningham (05:20)

On Mental Health and Recruitment

"There’s rejection built into it...for some of these women, this can be the first time.... And so here are some ways you can prepare yourself and help you move through the process in the most healthy way."
— Leslie Cunningham (07:49)

On Changing for Sorority Acceptance

"You can wear all the designer outfits you want...but that is a lot to keep up with once you join a sorority and you’re not joining for the people, you’re joining just for the letters."
— Leslie Cunningham (10:54)

On Image & Presentation

"I’m not going to jump on here in my bathing suit cover...I'm going to take the time to make a good first impression. It’s important to me. And so these women also need to have self-confidence."
— Leslie Cunningham (12:52)

"If it helps you to slap on a little lip gloss and feel good, then that’s what we want."
— Leslie Cunningham (14:16)

On Social Media

"We want to make sure we're really promoting you in the best way to give you the best shot so these girls can get to know you and see you for who you are, rather than just this beautiful, curated, very selective types of photos."
— Leslie Cunningham (21:15)

On Top-Tier Sororities & Peer Influence

"What your best friend thinks is top isn’t necessarily what you probably are going to think is top... if you’re just focused on what you consider top...you really miss out on finding people that you can have a true sisterhood with."
— Leslie Cunningham (27:45)

Host Skepticism

"It all seems like a little crazy to me, I have to be honest with you."
— Jen Fessler (34:26)

"Learning how to talk to people is not an interview. Right, you’re not trying to get a job."
— Jen Fessler (47:01)

On Rush Myths

"The biggest myth is that you have to transform yourself into something different than who you truly are."
— Leslie Cunningham (39:14)

---

Important Segments with Timestamps

• Introduction to Sorority Coaches and Skepticism — 03:03–05:19
• Leslie Explains Her Role & The Mental Health Angle — 05:20–09:06
• Superficial vs. Authentic: Where’s the Line? — 09:06–14:16
• Social Media Scrubbing & Perceptions — 20:57–24:09
• Cost of Coaching and Client Outcomes — 24:48–27:37
• Discussing "Top-Tier" Sororities and Peer Pressure — 27:37–30:50
• Public Perception and Criticism of the Industry — 30:50–33:30
• Host’s Post-Interview Reactions: Skepticism Remains — 43:10–48:38
• Final Thoughts: Cost, Stress, and Authenticity — 49:04–50:11

---

Tone, Language, and Takeaways

The conversation is candid, inquisitive, at times confrontational, but respectful. Leslie is poised, professional, and quick to reframe questions about superficiality or questionable value in positive, growth-oriented terms. Gia and Jen are skeptical throughout, voicing a view common outside of Greek-centric enclaves: Is this really necessary? Or is the entire system—and the cottage industry around it—reinforcing insecurity and privilege under the guise of empowerment?

The episode provides a nuanced look at the complex, high-pressure world of modern sorority recruitment—its demands, anxieties, social stratification, and the sometimes fine line between guidance and manufacturing a "rush-ready" image.

---

Bottom Line

Is a rush coach "bullsh*t"?
The jury is out: while Leslie insists her work is empowering and supportive, the hosts remain unconvinced—troubled by the commodification of belonging and the potential for added stress and unrealistic pressures.

For students and parents considering the rush process, this episode is essential listening—offering practical advice, industry insight, and tough questions about authenticity, privilege, and the real value of these services.

Transcript

[Gia Giudice]

This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human.

[LG Gram Laptop Advertiser]

Did you know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop. Voted PCMag's Reader's Choice top laptop brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit lgusa.com iheart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds away one of a kind index and let you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Ad Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures this.

[Sleep Apnea Advertiser]

Is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea or OSA in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snored loudly, or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this information is provided by Lilly, a medicine company.

[IBM Advertiser]

So let me get this straight. Your company has data here, there and everywhere, but your AI can't use the data because it's here, there and everywhere? Seems like something's missing. Every business has unique data. IBM helps your AI access your data wherever it Lives to change. How you do business. Let's create. Smile to business, IBM.

[Gia Giudice]

Welcome to Dirty Rush, the truth about sorority life. With your hosts, Me, Gia Giudice, Daisy.

[Jen Fessler]

Kent, and Jennifer Fessler. Flair.

[Gia Giudice]

Hey, guys, and welcome back to another episode of Dirty Rush. I'm Gia Giudice.

[Jen Fessler]

I'm Jen Fessler.

[Gia Giudice]

And we have another exciting guest for you guys.

[Jen Fessler]

We certainly do. We have another sorority coach.

[Gia Giudice]

Oh, Leslie. Leslie, am I gonna like you, or am I gonna hate you?

[Jen Fessler]

I think that is actually a very fair question, Ms. Gia. I think this is a. This is a new concept, right?

[Leslie Cunningham]

At least for us.

[Jen Fessler]

Maybe not at the University of Alabama, maybe, but for us, this is new. You had a college advisor. Yes, I paid for a college advisor. I don't know that I would ever pay for a sorority coach. I don't know if you would ever employ one.

[Gia Giudice]

No, definitely not.

[Jen Fessler]

But we're gonna be open.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah.

[Jen Fessler]

Right.

[Gia Giudice]

I want to ask her what schools she predominantly works for.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah. Well, she wouldn't work for the school, but which. Which. Who needs her the most?

[eBay Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

Which campus?

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah. Her name is Leslie Cunningham.

[Gia Giudice]

She's from Texas.

[Jen Fessler]

She's from Texas. I'm not surprised. That is. I went to school in Texas. That is a. The land of Greek life.

[Gia Giudice]

Let's bring her in.

[Jen Fessler]

Let's bring her in. Hello. Hi, Leslie.

[Leslie Cunningham]

Hi.

[Jen Fessler]

Hi. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Gia Giudice]

All right, so I guess we're gonna kind of get into it. So this is Dirty Rush. We are talking about all the ins and outs of sorority life, and I think a sorority coach is something that is new to my knowledge. I went to Rutgers University. I rushed in Greek. I was in Zeta, but I have never heard of a sorority coach before.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah, I am. We. I've actually now done an interview with or done done the pod with another sorority coach. She didn't want to be called a coach. She wanted to be called a consultant. I don't get it. I don't know what the difference is. You go by coach or consultant or either one.

[Leslie Cunningham]

They're interchangeable.

[Jen Fessler]

They're interchangeable. Okay. And I just want to, like, even the playing field were a little skeptical, but also open. And we have heard some really nice things about you and your approach. And so, you know, please tell us what you do, how you do it, how it all works.

[Gia Giudice]

Sure.

[Leslie Cunningham]

Yeah. And there is, I think, a lot of skepticism about this role and kind of what coaches do. But, yeah. I started my business, sorority prep in 2015 out of the need from moms and girls who are going to Be going through the recruitment process and just wanted help on how to navigate it. And so that's really what I do, is I just kind of step in to where the girls are in their nerves and questions and curiosity and just help them to understand everything that it's going to entail when they decide to, you know, embark on this journey. There's a lot of moving parts these days with sorority recruitment. So really my job is just to kind of help them understand what to expect and how to be themselves and showcase that in a way that will help them to put their best foot forward and confidently stand out amongst the masses. Because nowadays there are hundreds, if not thousands of women who want to be a part of Greek life, which is wonderful, but it can also be a little intimidating for maybe someone who has never tried something like this before.

[Gia Giudice]

So what schools or. Yeah, I guess schools. Not. So what schools predominantly, like, ask you to coach them?

[Leslie Cunningham]

Yeah, so that's a great question. I typically am working with a lot of women who are going through recruitment in the South. Obviously, the process is a little bit, you know, more challenging in terms of the ins and outs of what these girls are expected to kind of have prepared. And there's, you know, the PNM videos and there's the outfits and getting prepared for the parties themselves. But I do. I am now having more and more women from the Northeast. Like, I have a client this year. She's going to Columbia, and her mom, you know, just really wants to make sure she understands what she's stepping into. She has a lot on her plate with school and academics, and so it just makes sense to find a landing spot for these girls in a social setting, too.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah, that makes sense. Leslie, our producer, told us that you actually focus on mental health, which I was. I was thrilled to hear, because I think that's probably so necessary. Do you have some education? Are you a mental health provider in your other life?

[Leslie Cunningham]

So I actually, in doing this for 10 years, I really started to kind of feel the pressure from both moms and daughters to have a more resourceful place for them to come when they were facing some of these difficult challenges. And so this last year, I partnered with three mental health specialists. They're counselors. This is what they do. They work in the collegiate women's space, and we have created a program. They are working with my clients separately, along with moms, to help them sort of navigate how to support their daughters. But then for the women to give them the tools and resources they need to really be able to handle a Lot of the challenges, you know, recruitment has some rejection built into it. And so unfortunately, sometimes this can be the first time for some of these women to have rejection in their life. And so we are really just there to help them understand this is normal. You're going to have some of these feelings, you're going to have some of this anxiety, these hesitations. It's part of going off to college in a new place and being far away from home and outside your comfort zone. And so here are some ways that you can prepare yourself and help you to kind of move through the process in the most healthy way.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah, it's a little daunting to think that, that women, young women need mental health help just to go through this process. Right. It like. And I was in a sorority and obviously Gia was as well. And we've had a lot of wonderful experiences, both of us, and I'm sure you have as well. But there is something about this process that just seems to me and more today than back in the day because there's social media, but just inherently anxiety provoking. And as a coach, I'm, I'm glad to hear that you're, you know, you're actually dealing with that and addressing it. I'm curious to, in terms of like what you do outside of that, so. And how much of it is superficial. Like, take this off your social media, wear this, this with your hair, this. I've even heard that, that coaches sometimes recommend certain tanning approaches. Self tanner. I don't know. Tell us.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah, no, I, I was, I was gonna ask you along the same lines. Like, so going into sorority rush, say a girl approaches you and she is really set on getting into this one sorority and it's top tier, it's super difficult to get into. But maybe she doesn't have their quote unquote criteria or stereotypical view that they usually accept into their sorority. Do you feel comfortable physically changing, like their entire image and personality, or do you recommend to them, okay, maybe this isn't the right option for you to like, better their mental health rather than completely changing their personality at 18 years old?

[Leslie Cunningham]

Yeah, I think that's a great question. And something I think both girls and moms really struggle with is having a mindset that they want a certain thing. I approach that a little different when I start working with a client. I really want to understand who she is first because I think these girls need to have the self confidence in who they are. Because you can wear all the designer outfits you want, you can have your hair done in A certain way you can go and get the tan that you want, but that is a lot to keep up with once you join a sorority and you're not joining for the people, you're joining just for the letters. And so really my approach when I'm working with a client is to understand, we want you to find your people. Who you are and how you are is not going to change immediately once you get to college. So you need to understand what are the things that are important to you, what are some of these things in terms of friendships and that sense of belonging that you're really looking for. For. So that when you go and you're meeting with these different sorority women or you're having these conversations, you should. You should be able to sort of navigate and find your people. It should be a natural part of the process. And that's how it's built in these days as far as recruitment is concerned. And so if a woman is very set on one thing, I do explain to them there are going to be limitations. Not every sorority has a spot for every single girl. And so this may not go the exact same way that you want it to go, but you need to be open to the options you have. There is no bad sorority on any campus. It's really your perception. And if you are going into it to try to find the right people and to make those friendships and those connections, you're going to. You're going to land where you should land.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah, Leslie, I'm going to have to, like, actually hone in on this because I can't imagine that you don't also coach on, wear this hair like this. I'm sure that's part of it, right?

[Leslie Cunningham]

Yeah, absolutely. There is a component of, I think too, you want to present your best self. Just like today, I didn't want to jump on here. You know, I'm at a beach resort. I'm not going to jump on here in my bathing suit cover and, you know, just hope that I look great. I'm going to take the time to make a good first impression. It's important to me. And so these women also need to have the self confidence. I'm really hoping that, like, by going through the recruitment process, these women are well prepared to then go and try out for an organization on campus, if that's student leadership position, or maybe they're going to go out and try to find an internship that's very competitive. They want to be able to have that skill set and then go and launch into finding a job. And so if they can't understand how to prepare for those types of things in a competitive environment, life is. It shoots a lot of things at us, and so we have to be prepared in all of these different facets. And having your confidence, whether that's in your appearance and just being able to kind of present yourself. You know, these girls are very savvy, and they understand that that is part of it. Social media is part of it. And your. Your first impression does make a big difference.

[Jen Fessler]

So what do you. What do you tell them in terms of. Do you have specifics in terms of tanning? In terms of makeup, are you saying to them, not a spray tan. Make sure your arms are. Do you do all of that?

[Leslie Cunningham]

Yeah, I mean, I talk them through. You know, what is their typical. Like, what makes you feel good about yourself is that having a tan. You know, I have some clients that don't look good with a spray tan, and so I'm not going to encourage them to go and do that, But I do think taking the time, like, I had a client this last year, she is not someone who wears a lot of makeup, and I told her, I'm like, just go and get a little makeover and just see how you feel after you have that experience. Because sometimes I think it is about the newness of trying something. And, you know, if it helps you to slap on a little lip gloss and feel good, then that's what we want. We don't want you walking in, because there is going to be that comparison when they're standing in line waiting to walk into that sorority, and they're looking around and they're seeing all these girls who are putting forth a lot of effort. You don't want to feel like you showed up and didn't know that you were supposed to do that.

[Gia Giudice]

Definitely effort. But I also feel while you're rushing and going through this sorority process, that you're also fully entitled and allowed to show your natural beauty. So I feel like spray tans and making yourself almost nearly orange or, you know, getting a full face of makeup for sorority rush does seem a bit excessive. I fully believe that you can put your makeup on and, you know, learn how to do your makeup naturally, but I just feel like I'm getting visions of Toddlers and tiaras right now. And I just feel like this is a bit excessive for sorority rush. And I guess maybe this is cliche of me to say, because I didn't, you know, obviously rush in the south, but I also feel like showing your natural beauty and having that Also shine through is something that's really important and is like, is that something that you instill as well into.

[Leslie Cunningham]

Yeah, I think, I think each individual woman has, you know, how she views herself. And in part of what I think is difficult when you're preparing for sorority recruitment is understanding that who you are and, you know, what you look like and how you present yourself. And I really try to coach clients through not just the outer beauty, but also what you're saying and how you say it matters too, because these young collegiate women who are making the decisions about who to invite into their membership, they're really paying attention to these conversations and what you're saying. And so if you're going in there and like you mentioned before, if you have this attitude of like, this is where I want to be and I'm not going to have a gracious open attitude to everyone else, you know, that could, that can really hinder your experience. And I think to take away from like you were saying, that outer beauty that we want these girls to emulate is, you know, who they really are, should be able to shine through. Whether that's in those conversations or on their social media. I think that that should be reflected in both places. It shouldn't feel like there is a real disconnect between who they are on social media and who they're presenting themselves to be in the recruitment space.

[Gia Giudice]

So you're also giving them tips on, you know, ed delicacy and mannerisms.

[eBay Advertiser]

Before all of the algorithm fed bilar and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more fun. But here's a confession, Podlings. You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. Because on ebay it's not just shopping, it's a full on fashion pursuit. And when you find the thing, that adrenaline hit is real. I recently found a dress I have been looking for since I was 19. I saw it on a TV show and I swear it called out to me. And it has been something I have come back to time and time again. I have searched everywhere, every single secondhand store until finally I found it in my size on ebay. It's about the thrill of finding pieces just like that. And I want you to find pieces that feel like you as well. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee eBay things people love.

[LG Gram Laptop Advertiser]

Did you know Microsoft has officially ended support for Windows 10 upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop voted PCMag's Reader's Choice top laptop brand for 2025 thin and ultra light lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit lgusa.com iheart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member finra SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete Disclosures available at public.comDisclosures want to.

[CarMax Advertiser]

Sell your car your way?

[Jen Fessler]

Who wouldn't?

[CarMax Advertiser]

That's why CarMax offers a car selling experience designed just for you with online and in store options. Want to know what your car is worth quickly? Get an online offer in under two minutes. Want to think it over? Use OfferWatch to keep tabs on your car's value over time. Plus, CarMax offers flexible selling options with express drop off in store or pickup at home. Selling your car is in your control with CarMax. Want to drive CarMax pickup not available everywhere. Restrictions and fee may apply. See carmax.com for details.

[Jen Fessler]

What about the social media of it all? So do you scrub their social media and what are you looking for? I don't want to. This is not a paid session so I don't want to take. I don't want to just steal all your tips, but I'm interested in what do you look for and what do you tell them to get rid of.

[Leslie Cunningham]

Yeah, that's a great question. So I really come to it from a perspective of what I know the sorority women are looking for. And so when I'm looking at a client's social media, I want to be able to see all of the things reflected in what she shared with me. So what she's passionate about, what she's interested in, things she's involved in, where she's connected in her community, whether that's through her family, her friends, all the activities that she's involved in. If there's a lot of these selfies or just a lot of really focused individual attention that she's putting out there, that can also be perceived in a negative way by some of the sororities. So they want to see, you know, your friend groups, they want to see your activities, how you're spending your time. So with clients, I really work with them to understand, you know, this is sort of like a PR campaign up until recruitment. So we want to make sure that we're really promoting you in the best way to give you the best shot so these girls can get to know you and see you for who you are, rather than just this beautiful, curated, you know, very selective types of photos. Because again, if they meet you in person, that's not going to be necessarily things that you're probably going to be able to connect with them about.

[Jen Fessler]

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt, but I'm just curious. What about the girls that don't have a lot of friends that weren't popular in high school and that, you know, maybe their social media is awkward and how do you. What do you do in those occasions?

[Leslie Cunningham]

Yeah, so, you know, that that comes up and that's something that on an individual basis, I do work with clients. I provide them. Sort of like a roadma. Okay, I see that you don't have a ton of posts in here. And so girls are going to look at this and either go, huh, is this someone who is, you know, not very involved like you said, or doesn't have a huge community? And so we want to sort of help them to see opportunities. And so we kind of go through ways that they can moving forward, depending on when I start working with them, how they can start putting things out there so that girls can get to know them. Because really, the sororities are using the social media to sort of have some touch points, whether that's reaching out to girls before recruitment starts or even right before they jump into a party and have a conversation with a woman, they may go and look at her social media and see, oh, I see, she just got back from a trip with her family. And so these will be great things that I can talk to her about.

[Jen Fessler]

A lot of the sororities I'm thinking, are looking at social media and looking at what the girl looks like physically, what boys are surrounding her. I mean, I just think that's probably a very big part of it. So are you ever saying to these girls, listen, you know, find some people to take a picture with, find a cute boy. I mean, is that. And it's just honest. Like, I know you're trying to help these girls get into sororities and I'm wondering if you do have to give advice like that.

[Leslie Cunningham]

I typically don't because again, I'm not going from the perspective of like, we need to create this fake world. I really want it to feel authentic and I want it to be them. So I think if there are some of those awkward moments in their Instagram where I see something that might, again, how the sororities are going to perceive it is really where I'm providing that feedback to these women to say, hey, look, this may be something that you might just want to archive for a little while and then you can bring it back later on. But let's try to focus on some of these, these other areas that I know you have going on and that would be really great to highlight instead.

[Gia Giudice]

On average, how much do you charge to, you know, bring these girls through this process and how long typically are you training these girls for?

[Leslie Cunningham]

Yeah, so I can start working with a client as early as, you know, November, December with August recruitment. So it's a, it's a pretty long Runway that I usually try to work with a client. Again, I'm trying to get to know her, I'm trying to really help coach her through the process. She has enough time. But my program can really depend on kind of what the client wants, but upwards of, you know, thousands of dollars just because there is, it's a lot of just that one on one personalized coaching for clients that I'm providing.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah, so you charge also hourly, like people. Is it because we want to help?

[Leslie Cunningham]

I do, but I'll do an hourly option or I have just a set program that they can go through that includes everything. So they can just kind of jump in on that.

[Gia Giudice]

So the set program is probably less than a year, a little less than a year worth of training. So how much does that full program cost?

[Leslie Cunningham]

Yeah, so it's around $3,000.

[Jen Fessler]

Okay, so what happens when one of the girls that you're working with pays you the $3,000 and doesn't get in anywhere.

[Leslie Cunningham]

Yeah, I really have not had a client that I think there's twofold. So there are girls that start this process and decide, whoo, this is a lot. I don't know if I can do this. I don't know if I want to do this. And so they self select out. And that, I think, is something that, again, everyone's journey is different. And so how they get there, it may just be a little bit of a different route. And then I have other clients that are going to go through the process, they're going to really give it a fair shot, and they. Then they end up joining a sorority. So there isn't really a place where I find clients get to the end and decide, ooh, I definitely want my money back. This isn't what I thought it was going to be because, again, I'm trying to prepare them.

[Jen Fessler]

I mean, I'm sure some of your clients didn't get into a sorority, right? No.

[Leslie Cunningham]

I mean, I have clients that will go through the freshman process. So the first beginning of their semester, they'll go through recruitment. And like I said, they decide, this either either too much for me, or I'm going to take a break from this. And then they can also. I work with them to go through what's called the continuous open bidding process. So that's after formal recruitment. It's a more informal process, and so they end up joining that way. I also have clients that come to me that are not freshmen, they're upperclassmen, women who maybe were on campus, kind of observed Greek life, and thought, I don't really want to be involved, and then decide, hey, I think I want to do this, and end up coming and wanting to jump in in their sophomore or junior year.

[Gia Giudice]

But what if they don't say, they, okay, they get into a sorority, but they don't get into at least one of the top three.

[Leslie Cunningham]

So I think perception of what is top is really important. And again, that's part of what I'm trying to help clients understand. You know, what your best friend thinks is top isn't necessarily what you probably are going to think think is top. Or you could. I mean, it just depends. But you really have to focus in on who the people are and where you feel like you belong. Because if you're just focused on what you consider top or the best or top tier or any of that, I think you really miss out on finding people that you can have a true sisterhood with. I think most of my clients, you know, six months to a year to, you know, their senior year will tell you that the process works and they trusted the process. And it does get you to where you do have those genuine friendships and find your people.

[Gia Giudice]

No, for sure. And I think what I meant by that is, of course, when you go through the process, you find your people, but you also deal with the noise of everybody else speaking during the recruitment process. It's no secret what the top three sororities are at any school when you're going through that recruitment process. So is this the kind of avenue that you take in that mental health, like part of your course by, you know, really educating these women that it's okay to obviously like a sorority that is not in the stereotypical top three. And is this something that you really educate them on? Because I could like feel I could, you know, I, I feel what you're saying, how, you know, they're all gonna find their way and they're all gonna find their avenue and what sorority speaks to them, which is a hundred percent true, but also dealing with the stereotypes of going through the rushing process. You do know what the top are, what the, you know, low ranked sororities are? You do?

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah.

[Leslie Cunningham]

I give a lot of advice on like, where to really push out the noise because I do think there are a lot of external places where these women start to feel their confidence really starts to dwindle when they have a roommate who makes a, a comment about maybe a chapter that they still are interested in or they have on their schedule or they're walking to their next party and they hear two girls in front of them talking about, you know, a house that they just came from or even I have like clients whose moms or aunts or cousins or anyone in their family who maybe reaches out to them and says, oh my gosh, I can't believe you're still interested in xyz. So I do really try to help them understand that there isn't, there's not like this one set thing, like it's okay to find your place and where you feel like you belong because this is your experience. This isn't your mom's experience, this isn't your roommate's experience. And I really do coach clients. As a roommate, you probably shouldn't be discussing the, you know, the rounds and what houses you like, because you're each individuals and you're going to find that you probably are going to join different sororities and still, you know, be great roommates and have a great friendship, but you don't necessarily have to do the exact same thing that someone else is doing. Doing.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah, we've had another. We had another coach on, and I asked her this same question. I wonder if you face a lot of judgment about what you're doing. And I know for me, and I said this to our last coach, so just fair. But I don't know that I would ever hire someone. My daughter went through rush, and I, you know, I went through a hundred years ago, and my mother didn't even know what a sorority was. But. But I don't think that I would hire a coach. And I wonder if you. And that's. Please don't misunderstand me. No, absolutely. I'm sure that you've helped a lot of women, and especially I love the mental health part. But do you get a lot of flack? Is there a blowback in terms of what you do? Do you experience that?

[Leslie Cunningham]

I do, and I think it's just misconception of what my role is. And so what I really try to help people understand is I'm not here to get someone into a particular sorority. I would love for women to go through the experience of recruitment and find this unique thing that is on a college campus where you can really explore who you are, you can be challenged, you can be a part of something where you're giving back in philanthropy and learning skill sets that you're going to use for the rest of your life. And so I really want people to understand that my job is just to get more people who want to join this. This process and be a part of it. And, you know, I always tell clients, you, you are special. You're going to find your place, whether that's in a sorority or somewhere on your campus. But you have something to offer, and these sorority women are going to see that if you're true to yourself, and you really do, you know, kind of dig down deep and really showcase who you are. But I do think there is a lot of pushback against. Yeah, like I said, I've been doing this 10 years. And so I have seen the ebb and flow of being just one of a few doing this to now, you know, hundreds, if not thousands. And I think they all have different approaches. But I know in my heart what I'm doing is really to build these women up in their confidence, help moms know how to support their daughters in this transition. And I just want them to get the skills and life lessons that can help them carry on, you know, from college and beyond. I think as a woman in a sorority, you can just gain so much from it. And I just. Yeah, like I said, I just want more people to be a part of it and see it in its true light. It's unfortunate that there are so many things that kind of downplay the sorority experience. You know, they focus on some of the things that I think, take away from really what sororities are doing on campuses.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah, no, I think that's definitely admirable. But we've also heard some horror stories about. And about the girls that have been rejected and what happens and what that looks like. And it's. I. I think that it is. What you're describing is very admirable to sort of help women express their true self and to not just look for status when they're, you know, rushing. But I don't know, it feels like I. When I hear sorority coach, I hear someone who is coming in to help my daughter get into the sorority that she wants by. Please forgive me. And I'm not saying that this is what you do. It's just, as a mother, this is what I would. What occurs to me by transforming herself into what other young girls want. And I think that's why I like.

[Gia Giudice]

The image of the sorority.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah. And. And. Or the image of the sorority. And I'm very open to being wrong about that. And you seem also like a lovely woman who really cares about the girls that you work with, but it all seems like a little crazy to me, I have to be honest with you. Yeah, well, sure.

[Leslie Cunningham]

I think there are a lot of things that girls do to prepare for sorority recruitment. That does seem very crazy. You wouldn't do that, you know, in. In other circumstances. But I also think that, you know, this process and the way. I mean, unfortunately, this is the way that sororities recruit new members. And so I think if there was a different process created that they could join in a different format, then that may be where we see some of this change. But in the end, I think some girls do go through. And it is unfortunate because I see it, too. I see it on social media, and I see it in other places. I have moms call me who tell me about, you know, people they know who are experiencing certain things. And it is. But I think if you can really step into understanding that, you know, rejection is part of life, I think sometimes that's also the lesson here, too, is that, you know, how you come back from some of that is important. And if, like I said, you can come into it with the right attitude and the right understanding and the right expectations, you know this can be a really fun and successful process, but if you come in very narrow minded and this is all I want and this is what they expect from me and this is how I need to look, then yeah, it's going to be a lot of work and you're going to be disappointed.

[Jen Fessler]

Before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more, well, fun. But here's a confession Dirty Rush listeners. You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. It's not mindless scrolling, it's a fashion pursuit. I love using filters for condition and price saving searches and spotting verified listings. It makes shopping feel smart and exciting again. And when you score that rare Adidas Collab or that Dior saddlebag you've been manifesting, it's a rush. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay's authenticity Guarantee. Ebay Things People Love did you know.

[LG Gram Laptop Advertiser]

Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10 upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop? Voted PCMag's Reader's Choice top laptop brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit lgusa.com iheart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures.

[CarMax Advertiser]

Want to buy your way? Of course you do. That's why CarMax offers an experience designed just for you. Want to start online, then visit the lot, then go back online? Sure, sure. Want to talk to a real person or chat online? Either works. Want to take your time and compare all the makes and models? No problem. Then make up some time by filling out the paperwork at home and schedule express pickup or home delivery. Done. When it comes to how you buy, CarMax puts you in the driver's seat. Want to drive CarMax delivery restrictions apply. See CarMax.com for details.

[Gia Giudice]

So what would you say that the biggest myth is to sorority rush?

[Leslie Cunningham]

I think the biggest myth is that you have to, like you said at the beginning, transform yourself into something different than who you truly are. I think if you are a natural beauty and you are confident in who you are and you know what you're looking for in terms of joining something like this, then you are going to find, you know, you're going to find your people and you're going to find your place and it's going to be a really fun experience. I think when you come in and you're really second guessing yourself and you're really doubting yourself, I think that's where I see a lot of these girls start to put their worth and who they want to be so much in these letters as opposed to, you know, really trusting themselves and stepping out and trying to just make a friend. Because that's really what, you know, at the end of the day, that's what they're, that's what they're trying to do is find their friends before school starts 100%.

[Gia Giudice]

What would you say the biggest mistake that PNM's make?

[Leslie Cunningham]

Yeah, I think the biggest mistake is probably focusing too much on, and I know we talked a little bit about this, but focusing too much on the things that aren't going to really make a huge impact for them. So things like, I think attire and outfits are important, but if you are just focused on that and really worried about that and you're not practicing the social skills of how to have a good conversation and how to connect with someone and how to make someone feel like they really have gotten to know you in a 5, 10, 15 minute conversation, you're gonna miss out on being able to really put yourself out there and find, find your place. I think the other thing that girls spend a lot of time on and effort is the recommendation process. So that has changed over the years and I think it's a great way to make an introduction to a sorority about yourself and to have an alum introduce you to that organization. But it is not the end all, be all. And I find a lot of clients stress and have a lot of effort that they put towards it. And so just helping them to. To understand that there are a lot of other things. If you can connect with girls before recruitment, if you can have a great conversation and you can really be yourself, then, you know, you'll. You'll be fine.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah, I definitely heard that. That, that letter of recommendation is outdated a bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, Leslie, what a pleasure. Thank you for coming on.

[Gia Giudice]

Thank you so much.

[Jen Fessler]

Thank you for talking us through this. We wish you continued success. Again, I have lots of ideas about this, as I'm sure Gia does, and it's new to me and so not meaning to be pessimistic, but we're trying to ask you the hard questions and to really understand what this is about and to be, you know, honest with you and have an open dialogue. And thank you so much for talking to us.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah, you really do sound like you care about, you know, the recruits genuine feelings and personality and what they want. And I feel like that's something that, you know, obviously you have. Have stuck with it for. Throughout the years, 10 years, and you pretty much feel like you have. It's in our little carts here. But you have a hundred percent success rate, so good for you.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah.

[Leslie Cunningham]

Thank you. I know it's a wonderful experience. Like I said, if you can find that place where girls can feel like they belong and they find their home. But I know it's a lot, so I appreciate the time and the questions.

[Jen Fessler]

Where can our listeners find you, by the way? Way?

[Leslie Cunningham]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. I'm on social media, so Instagram sorority prep101. I'm on Tik Tok Sorority Prep and I have a website, sorority prep.com.

[Jen Fessler]

Perfect.

[Gia Giudice]

Amazing. Thank you so much.

[Jen Fessler]

Thank you, Leslie.

[Gia Giudice]

Have a great day.

[Jen Fessler]

Good luck to all your girls. Bye. Bye.

[Gia Giudice]

I don't know.

[Jen Fessler]

I don't know either. I mean, I. Now, I don't want to say, like.

[Gia Giudice]

I felt like she was a little full of it, But I just.

[Jen Fessler]

100%.

[Gia Giudice]

100% accessory.

[Jen Fessler]

I mean, what does that mean? Does that mean that you say to your clients, you're definitely going to get into a sorority and then that success because they got into one maybe that they didn't necessarily plan on getting into or how do you measure success? I don't know. It's. It does seem like A lot. Right.

[Gia Giudice]

I know. I just didn't feel like it was very. Just sugar coating.

[eBay Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Jen Fessler]

Like, I want to know, like.

[Gia Giudice]

Like she wasn't deep.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah, like. Like, stop the bs. Like, do you tell them what to wear? Yeah, like, I tell them how much makeup to wear. Like, is it. Is it.

[Gia Giudice]

I'm really picturing tiaras right now.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah, I am, too.

[Gia Giudice]

I just. I don't get it.

[Jen Fessler]

But listen, here's the truth. Like, we're not. We haven't gone through the process, and we're gonna try not to judge, even though we're judging.

[Gia Giudice]

We're judging.

[Jen Fessler]

Yes. But we'll say that we're trying not to. I know.

[Gia Giudice]

I mean. Yeah, she's making a good loving.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah. I mean, listen, I don't begrudge her that $3,000.

[Gia Giudice]

And she says she gets.

[Jen Fessler]

I mean, maybe more. I thought we read it could be even more.

[Gia Giudice]

Well, she said 3,000 if she does. If they do the whole package.

[Jen Fessler]

Okay.

[Gia Giudice]

Then it's 250 to $300 an hour.

[Jen Fessler]

An hour.

[Gia Giudice]

So if you're doing that, you're paying over three grand.

[Jen Fessler]

So let's think about that. What is 250 to $300 an hour? Ten grand. Ten grand. And what did you pay for your college tutor?

[Gia Giudice]

5,000.

[Jen Fessler]

That's what we paid for. Right. So now you're paying.

[Gia Giudice]

But she helped me with everything.

[Jen Fessler]

No, I. I hired one, believe me.

[Gia Giudice]

And they were very, very helpful. Right, but that's also like us going into college. Into college. That's our career.

[Jen Fessler]

I don't know. This.

[Gia Giudice]

This sorority life is not, like, the end all, be all and listen.

[Jen Fessler]

And we're here to talk about, like, the good, too, of sorority life and how much fun it was and how much, you know, what it created in terms of life lessons and all of that, but.

[Gia Giudice]

And I love all of that, but you experience that once you're in it.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

Nobody told me what to dress or how to look like.

[Jen Fessler]

It's just the stakes are so high. If you're spending that kind of money as a kid, I would think you would feel so much pressure. Yes. Like, all of this money, and it's so important that I would spend thousands of dollars on it. I'm not saying it's not important to young women, but I don't know.

[Gia Giudice]

I just think going into it with. And yes, she was saying rejection's a part of life.

[Jen Fessler]

Yes.

[Gia Giudice]

100. And I think that is a big lesson to learn throughout life, that you are going to get rejected sometimes. And it's not only going to be from a sorority. It could be from a guy.

[Jen Fessler]

Woman is teaching how not to get rejected. Right. And I mean, I know they do that, their college counselors that do that. It feels different to me. It feels like, here's how you make people like you or the. This sorority. I don't know. I don't know. We could be. I feel badly saying it because she was a lovely woman.

[Gia Giudice]

She was. She was. I just. I think that there's a way you experience the good once you're in the sorority.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

And I feel like getting into the sorority being your authentic self and not really changing much about you. Sure.

[Jen Fessler]

Yes.

[Gia Giudice]

Wash your hair that day.

[Leslie Cunningham]

Blow it out.

[Jen Fessler]

Wash your hair most days. Yeah, but. Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah.

[eBay Advertiser]

Yes.

[Jen Fessler]

Well, fair about every three, but whatever.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah, but like, wash your hair.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

Put yourself together a little bit.

[Leslie Cunningham]

Sure.

[Gia Giudice]

Are you gonna maybe go to the mall and buy an outfit that you probably wouldn't wear in a normal day? Yes. Because you're excited. Put on a cute dress. Wear something that you feel good in. You know, maybe put on some heels, but you don't need to spend thousands of dollars.

[Jen Fessler]

And also, I wonder, like, learning how to talk to people is not an interview. Right. You're not trying to get a job, So I don't know. How do you teach that? I guess, I guess there's social skills or a lot of people.

[Gia Giudice]

I mean, yes, a big part of the. The recruitment process is talking to girls and really having that speed dating mentality and having them get to know you in that 10, 15 minute period.

[Jen Fessler]

But.

[Gia Giudice]

Okay, you'll. If you find that connection, you'll connect with the girl in two minutes. If you don't find the connection, you move on.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

There were girls that, when I was going through that recruitment process that I was like, okay, yeah, I'm over this.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

I don't want to compete having this conversation. It's getting boring.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

And it does get repetitive because you're having the same conversation with a million different sorority houses. But when you feel that connection, those people that you vibe with life, those are the people and that and the sororities that you want to move forward.

[Jen Fessler]

And I'm sure she does coach that. I'm sure that she also says, you know, I would say if I'm, you know, trying to help my daughter to be more of a conversationalist, I don't like, I would definitely say, you know, ask questions or, I don't know. Positives are better than negatives. I don't know. But this seems Excessive to me. Right. Yeah, a little bit. It. We're sorry, Leslie. Again, we're. We. We could be wrong.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah, we could.

[Jen Fessler]

Right?

[Gia Giudice]

I just. I don't know.

[Jen Fessler]

I don't know.

[Gia Giudice]

I feel like you can. You girls can authentically do this on your own.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

It doesn't need to be, like, all this superficial stuff.

[Jen Fessler]

And by the way, it's okay if you don't get into a sorority.

[Gia Giudice]

It's really okay. You'll be fine.

[Jen Fessler]

It's gonna be okay.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah, it's gonna be okay.

[Jen Fessler]

I can promise you life will throw you 100. A lot of curveballs. This one may feel in the moment like it's a huge one. I could almost guarantee you're gonna graduate college and you're gonna look back at it and you're going to maybe even laugh a little about it. But good luck. I mean, good luck, guys, to all of our listeners.

[Gia Giudice]

Seriously. Yeah, but really. And this is also an expense that most people are not going to just.

[Jen Fessler]

On the day, and there's that. So there's expenses itself.

[Gia Giudice]

Ye.

[Jen Fessler]

The sorority dues. And now you're paying your college tuition.

[Gia Giudice]

Then your books, you know, everything needed. You're going to spend at least 500 on textbooks during your first semester going into college. So it's your tuition, your textbooks, your sorority fees, and then this on top.

[Jen Fessler]

Definitely feels like it's a lot.

[Gia Giudice]

It's unnecessary.

[Jen Fessler]

Like something that I feel wealthy families do. I wouldn't think that.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah.

[Jen Fessler]

I don't know. But. All right. So my friend.

[Gia Giudice]

Yes.

[Jen Fessler]

So my sorority sister, I guess. Sisters. A5 and what was your Zeta. Whatever. But great interview.

[Gia Giudice]

Yes.

[Jen Fessler]

Really interesting.

[Gia Giudice]

Really interesting. I mean, listen, if it is something that you have access to and it's something that you want to do, by all means, go for it. But I also feel like you guys can really achieve. Maybe figure it out on your own.

[Jen Fessler]

Yeah. So this is Dirty Rush.

[Gia Giudice]

And that is it for today.

[Jen Fessler]

I am Jen.

[Gia Giudice]

And I'm Gia.

[Jen Fessler]

See you next time. All right, guys, listen to us. Next time. Listen. See whatever it is. Yeah. Bye.

[Gia Giudice]

See you next time.

[Sleep Apnea Advertiser]

Bye.

[LG Gram Laptop Advertiser]

Did you know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10 Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop? Voted PCMag's Reader's Choice Top Laptop Brand for 2025 Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive anywhere. And Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com iheart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11 PCMag Reader's Choice. Used with permission. All rights reserved.

[Lifelock Advertiser]

This time of year, most of us are checking off our holiday gift lists, but identity thieves have lists too, and your personal information might be on them. Protect your identity with Lifelock Lifelock monitors millions of data points every second and alerts you to threats you could miss. If your identity is stolen, Lifelock will fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Make this season about joy, not identity theft. With Lifelock, save up to 40% your first year [e-mail] iheart terms apply.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc, LLC SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures hey audiobook lovers, I'm Cal Penn.

[LG Gram Laptop Advertiser]

I'm Ed Helms.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

Ed and I are inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard with our new podcast, Irsay The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

[Leslie Cunningham]

Each week we sit down with your favorite I iheart podcast hosts and some very special guests to discuss the latest.

[Public Investing Advertiser]

And greatest audiobooks from audible, listen to Earsay on America's number one podcast network, iHeart. Follow Earsay and start listening on the free iHeartradio app today.

[Gia Giudice]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.