Dirty Rush: Shocking Sorority Rush Behavior

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Dirty Rush: Shocking Sorority Rush Behavior"

Podcast: Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge
Release Date: September 13, 2025
Hosts: Gia Giudice, Jennifer Kessler, Daisy Kent (Guest Hosts)
Guests: Sophie Cunningham, Katie, Jane, Leslie
Focus: The shocking rise of "dead fishing" or "throwing around" in sorority recruitment—where girls sabotage their chances at certain sororities to "game the system."

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Main Theme and Episode Overview

The episode shifts focus from a planned celebrity guest (Mercedes Northup from The Bachelor) to a hot, controversial topic in modern sorority rush: "dead fishing" or "throwing around." This is a calculated behavior where potential new members (PNMs) intentionally act uninterested (or even rude) at certain houses they see as less desirable, hoping it improves their odds at getting into a "top-tier" house. The hosts and their guests, all with personal sorority recruitment experience, debate how new and widespread this is, its impacts, and share real stories from those on both sides of the process.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

What is "Dead Fishing" or "Throwing Around"?

• Definition: Intentionally acting withdrawn, uninterested, or even breaking rush rules so a sorority will drop you, letting you focus energy on preferred chapters.
• Quote: “They intentionally are quiet, maybe not even nice, disinterested, so that house does not invite them back. ...They think they're beating the system.” – Sophie Cunningham (03:22)

Is it ‘New’?

• Sophie is shocked by this behavior, insists it’s a new phenomenon. “This would never have happened in my era... it’s so mean.” – Sophie Cunningham (04:51)
• Gia and Daisy argue that while the terminology is new, the behavior may be subconsciously present in past generations—girls always gave less energy to less preferred houses. (05:39)

Is It Effective—or Just Mean?

• Consensus: Trying to ‘game’ the system rarely works; it’s disrespectful to sorority members putting in effort, and it can backfire.
• “I had a couple people say, oh, yes, so and so did that, but she didn’t end up with a house. And it’s like, exactly.” – Sophie Cunningham (07:17)
• The sense of entitlement of some PNMs is called out: “When you have that attitude, 90% of the time, it doesn’t go your way.” – Gia Giudice (08:48)

The New Sorority Rush Culture: Pressure, Coaches, Social Media

• The group is surprised at how 'Rush coaches' are now common, prepping girls to present a curated version of themselves. (09:13)
• “When you’re hiring a coach to get you into this top sorority, they’re making you someone you’re not.” – Daisy Kent (09:15)
• Social media’s influence is discussed. “All those girls doing OOTDs…some schools are frowning upon that…aren’t really so into that.” – Sophie Cunningham (11:29)

The System’s Perspective: Is There Any Real Advantage?

• The computerized “algorithm” behind Greek recruitment is opaque—it’s doubtful that sabotaging interviews really increases your odds with better houses.
• “Gaming the system in rush really doesn’t work.” – Sophie Cunningham (07:17)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On hurting others:
  "I think subconsciously is a good word...I would never put them in a situation like that or myself." – Daisy Kent (06:15)
• On reputation:
  “If you go into a sorority and you’re an asshole…everyone’s talking during the recruitment process, so you still want to make a good impression and represent yourself.” – Gia Giudice (06:36)
• On authenticity:
  “Because you weren’t your true, honest self and you were doing all these things. That is not what the recruitment process should be like, 1,000%.” – Daisy Kent (09:47)
• On social consequences:
  “If you think you’re throwing one house, you could be throwing five…they could go home and be like, ‘This girl was so rude.’” – Leslie (40:21)

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Real-Life Stories & Testimonies

Katie (Guest) from California (15:15–24:30)

• "Dead fishing" is real, even outside the South.
• She purposely talked about her boyfriend (usually against the rules) hoping to get dropped from a less-preferred house (Tridel), but the sister interviewing her happened to love that detail, which backfired:
  “I thought my best alternative was to break the rules and talk about my boyfriend.” – Katie (16:52)
  “My plan completely backfired...she’s just feeling really bonded to me in this moment, and I am losing it.” – Katie (21:05)
• Ultimately, she ended up in her favorite house (DG), found the process stressful, and now regrets not just being honest:
  “Sometimes honesty is the best answer.” – Gia Giudice (23:51)

Jane (Guest) on the Chapter Side (24:46–31:08)

• Confirms girls purposely act aloof or rude: “They act mean on purpose so the chapter won’t ask them back…” (24:58)
• The effect on active members is demoralizing.
  “We’re not getting to know the girls because of their personalities. We’re getting a super boring version of them who doesn’t want to be with us.” – Jane (25:45)
• Gave an example where a PNM’s “unique question” was “What’s your favorite color?” and ultimately responded: “I really like beige.” (26:14)
• Chapters try to report rule-breaking, but “You can't be kicked out of recruitment for being boring.” (26:53)
• Some PNMs ask intentionally uncomfortable questions (i.e., about religion) to get dropped, which can lead to blacklisting from even more chapters. (29:41–30:15)

Leslie (Guest) – When It’s Not Malicious (33:34–41:36)

• Freshman on the dance team, overwhelmed, accidentally had to take a Zoom rush round from the bathroom during a performance.
  “I run off the court, and I immediately go. And I grab my laptop. I'm still in my uniform, I'm sweating...in a bathroom.” – Leslie (35:19)
• Didn’t intend to offend, but didn’t make a connection due to the chaos and was dropped.
• Warns that even “small schools” and friend overlap means word gets around fast if you behave poorly:
  “If you think you’re throwing one house, you could be throwing five houses. They could go home and be like, tell their roommates this girl was so rude.” – Leslie (40:21)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• What is "Dead Fishing"/"Throwing Around"? – 03:09–05:40
• Gaming the system & repercussions – 06:36–07:17
• On hiring coaches and authenticity – 09:13–09:47
• Social Media’s impact – 11:04–11:44
• Personal Stories: Katie – 15:15–24:30
• Personal Stories: Jane (chapter member perspective) – 24:46–31:08
• Personal Stories: Leslie (accidental "throwing around") – 33:34–41:36

---

Takeaways & Advice

• "Dead fishing" hurts everyone: It can backfire for the PNM and is emotionally taxing for active members.
• Being authentic is key: Pretending to be someone else—via a coach or through dead fishing—results in worse outcomes.
• Word travels fast: Negative behaviors can have larger social consequences beyond just the one house.
• Open-mindedness pays off: Many guests/hosts said the “right” house isn’t always who you expected, and genuine connection matters more.

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Final Reflections

• The hosts (Gia, Daisy, Jennifer, and Sophie) urge future PNMs to resist the temptation to "game the system."
• “Don’t do this. Do not do this. It’s totally bonkers.” – Sophie Cunningham (07:17)
• Approach recruitment with an open mind and your true self:
  “Go into every round really just showing your best efforts because you are at the end of the day representing yourself.” – Gia Giudice (39:19)

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Summary prepared for listeners interested in the modern realities—and pitfalls—of sorority recruitment, with rich discussion and candid first-person accounts.

Transcript

[Daisy Kent]

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[Gia Giudice]

Welcome to Dirty Rush the truth about Sorority Life with your hosts me, Gia.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Giudice, Daisy Kent and Jennifer Kessler.

[Gia Giudice]

Hey guys, it's Gia Giudice and welcome back to another week of Dirty Rush. This week I have a very fun celebrity guest, Mercedes Northup from the Bachelor. So going into this episode, we kind of wanted to bring in celebrities to get their perspective on sorority life. But our producers have another idea for us. So we're having a total switch up on this episode and apparently it's a topic that we need to talk about. I don't know the topic, so let's find out.

[Sophie Cunningham]

So I just learned about something last night about sorority rush that literally has me in shock. So I learned it from my niece who is. I'm 51, so she is 20. So she is almost 20. She's significantly younger. She told me this was a thing and I told her she was lying. I said, this is not a thing. This is not real. I did not want you guys to know what it was because I want to find out genuine reactions. If this is now something that goes on in sorority rush. I heard it has two different names. It is called throwing around or dead fishing. So I immediately said, what are you talking about? And she said, basically what happens is if you're a middle house, because I don't think this would happen at a top tier house. If you're a middle house, girls that come in want to not get invited back because they think they are beating the system, essentially, which people listening, this does not work. Like, I'm convinced this does not work. This is completely crazy. So they go in and they intentionally are quiet, maybe not even nice, disinterested, so that that house does not invite them back. Because I guess it's called dead fishing or throwing the round. I guess that the theory for them is they think they're beating the system so that if they don't get invited back to these middle houses, it will help them get the top tier house.

[Gia Giudice]

So they kind of try to shit the bed and not put any effort in to a house that essentially in their mind, they think it doesn't matter so that they'll eliminate those houses and automatically go to top tier.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Correct. Knowing what I know, it seems absolutely insane. I've never heard of anything this crazy. This would never have happened in my era because I just. First of all, it's trying to game the system, which doesn't work right? But two, it's so mean. I'm like, how can this be real? So that is the topic. We have found people who either know about this or who may even admit they did it. So I would love for you guys to talk to them. And I just Will say, I do not think this happened in my era. Or even like 10 years younger than me, 15 years younger than me. This seems much more something now. And I'm like horrified by it, to.

[Gia Giudice]

Be honest with you. I have never heard of the term, but I feel like regardless, girls have. Might have been subconsciously doing it, whether it wasn't a term, because I don't think I've never heard that term when I was in. When I was rushing. But I feel like girls would subconsciously do that if they weren't interested in those houses. They wouldn't put their efforts there because they want to put their efforts into something else. So I feel like as long maybe it's not a term that I am aware of or that we are aware of, but I feel like girls.

[Sophie Cunningham]

But it's a behavior.

[Gia Giudice]

It's a behavior. Yeah.

[Daisy Kent]

I think subconsciously is a good word because I feel like when we went through recruitment or when I went through, I definitely think there was like some houses where I was like, I don't think we're a match. But I never went in there being like, 100%, I'm gonna be rude or I'm gonna make them think I'm like, You know what I'm saying? I was always nice. I was always. I would never put them in a situation like that or myself.

[Gia Giudice]

I think automatically when you kind of go into a house and you start that speed dating process, when you're in that open house round going through all of that, you kind of know who you click with and who you don't click with. But the problem is I was still nice to everybody. I was still myself to everybody. And okay, maybe I didn't connect with those girls, but maybe those girls connected with me. So you still want to make a good impression and because no matter what everyone's talking during the recruitment process, so you still want to make a good impression and represent yourself how you want your reputation to be. Because if you go into a sorority and you're an asshole, the part for.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Me, that's kind of blowing my mind on it. And again, nobody, unless you work for Panhellenic, I guess, really knows exactly how this computer system algorithm works. But the way I understand it is, and when I went through Rush, it was like, go to these houses, be. Be yourself, but be polite and nice and chatty and kind like you would at any house. And if you get invited back to every house, then you pick meaning. We called them the Rushee. So the Rushee, if they get invited back to every House, really, the advantage is to them. They're gonna narrow down and get the houses they want. So the thing that's, like, very befuddling to me, and I think some people will be able to explain it, is how would this possibly work? But I guess in people's minds, they're trying to game the system. And I just stand by going, gaming the system in rush really doesn't work. And I thought it was interesting because I. I had a couple people say to me, oh, yes, so and so did that, but she didn't end up with a house. And it's like, exactly. So look, for people listening, this whole rush process is so fascinating because it's not just, hey, how are you? What's your major? Let's be friends. There's all this strategy and coaches and all these things that have changed the game so much. So I think I wanted to sort of go, let's throw what we were going to do out and really dig into this, as these girls are in rush. And I'm sorry, but if you're listening, don't do this. Do not do this. It's totally bonkers.

[Gia Giudice]

And like you were saying, if you really do put your efforts in and all the houses want you back, take that as a compliment, literally. But I also feel like it's kind of a sense of entitlement. Clearly, some of these girls think that they're better, and when you have that attitude, 90 of the time, it doesn't go your way.

[Daisy Kent]

I feel like it's just changed so much. Like, again, the coaches, like, that's crazy.

[Gia Giudice]

I've never heard of that until this podcast.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah.

[Daisy Kent]

And I also feel like when you're hiring a coach to get you into this top sorority, they're making you someone that you're not 100% saying. So, like, you're gonna get into a sortie.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah.

[Daisy Kent]

You got into the top sorority. That's amazing. Like, you feel cool for, like, five seconds, but then you look at this other sword and you're like, wait, those are my people. Like, those are the people that I would be, like, best friends for life with. Instead, I'm in the sorority that I have nothing in common with.

[Gia Giudice]

No.

[Daisy Kent]

Like, I don't agree with or not. Not agree with their philanthropy, but, like, I think I would match better in this one. But it's because you weren't your true, honest self and you were doing all these things. That is not what the recruitment process.

[Gia Giudice]

Should be, like, 1,000%.

[Daisy Kent]

It's just changed so much. It's crazy.

[Gia Giudice]

It has if I hired a rush coach at Rutgers University.

[Daisy Kent]

No, please. We would be canceled.

[Leslie (Guest)]

That's crazy.

[Sophie Cunningham]

And I think about. Okay, so I truly thought this was made up. I literally said to my niece, no, I think that the girl was just having a bad day or she was shy. And my niece was like, no, it's intentional. So my thing is the poor rusher. I don't forget what you guys call it.

[Gia Giudice]

Like, potential new member talks to the pnm.

[Sophie Cunningham]

PNM talks to the member. So we called him the rusher or the rushee. That poor girl who's talking to this girl who's a dead fish must have felt horrible about themselves. And, yes, they go and make sure that girl gets dropped, so. Because it would be so awful. So, anyway, I hope we have people to really talk about this, because this is the kind of thing that does give rush a bad name. Whereas, like, I love sorority life, and I love all of it, but this has me sort of horrified.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

Well, again, it's that sense of, like, entitlement and thinking who you are, and this is why people have such a negative. Like you on sorority is.

[Daisy Kent]

I also feel like the social media that goes into it now, too, has a big, like. I feel like that's a big reason why it's so, like.

[Gia Giudice]

I mean, you think of a typical stereo type of sorority girl, blonde hair, skinny. Like, great fashion. I mean, I think Bama's a fun, fun school, but I think about Bama. I do.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah.

[Sophie Cunningham]

I'm hearing. And again, this will be interesting conversations for this episode and others, that some of those girls doing the OOTDs and all that is actually hurting their chances now that some schools are frowning upon that and kind of aren't really so into that.

[Jennifer Kessler]

So.

[Sophie Cunningham]

So it'll be really interesting. But for me, what's been so shocking is the change now at the core. I think once you're in the house and we'll delve into this in this series of pledging and initiation and date parties and standards and all the things that go along with rush and sorority life. But the rush process is so different now. And the pressure. The pressure on the girls in the house and the pressure on the girls going through it, just.

[Katie (Guest)]

And they're so young.

[Daisy Kent]

Like, it's. It should be fun. It should be like, recruitment. You're exciting. You're going into college. You're gonna meet your best friends. Like, it should not be this intense and weird.

[Gia Giudice]

No one knows.

[Sophie Cunningham]

It's getting weird. It's getting weird.

[Gia Giudice]

It's getting weird.

[Leslie (Guest)]

It's getting.

[Gia Giudice]

And in college you're supposed to find yourself and really find who you are. And I mean, if you're trying to paint this picture that you're not when you're joining a sorority, how is that gonna help you find yourself? If anything, that's gonna make you more confused.

[Jane (Guest)]

Yeah.

[Sophie Cunningham]

So I think let's dig into this and see if this is a real thing. Because yeah, it actually shocked me. I was like, that cannot be real.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah.

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[Katie (Guest)]

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[Gia Giudice]

Hey, Katie. So is dead fishing or throwing around? Is this a real thing?

[Katie (Guest)]

So, yes, at my school, particularly, we call it dead fishing. I know it's different everywhere, but I just.

[Gia Giudice]

Telling me where you go?

[Katie (Guest)]

I'm not going to tell you where I go, but I will tell you sorority names. In my experience, dead fishing, part of.

[Gia Giudice]

The country, and I'm like, are you in the South?

[Katie (Guest)]

No, I'm not in the South. I'm actually in California.

[Daisy Kent]

Oh, okay.

[Katie (Guest)]

Yes.

[Gia Giudice]

And why did I think that rushing wasn't that big in California?

[Anders Holm]

I know.

[Katie (Guest)]

I definitely didn't think it would be that big of a deal at my school. And sure enough, it was.

[Gia Giudice]

Wow.

[Anders Holm]

Okay.

[Gia Giudice]

I'm excited to hear about it.

[Katie (Guest)]

Yeah. So basically, I knew all along that there were two houses that I really liked, and on press night, I had picked the two houses. I had had those two houses all along. And then when I got to opening my bid or the app that we use that tells you which houses you got back, I saw that I only had one of those houses, and the other house I had was considered a bottom house, and I immediately freaked out and didn't really know what to do. So I actually had that bottom house as the first party. So I had about 10 minutes to get myself together and try to not freak out. And this was when I walked into the house and decided my best alternative was to break the rules and talk about my boyfriend.

[Jane (Guest)]

Which.

[Katie (Guest)]

Yes, that's one of the main things we're not supposed to do.

[Gia Giudice]

But. Okay, we. Can I just have you. Can I clarify something quick? So you. You're in the final round. You're in prep round.

[Katie (Guest)]

Yes.

[Gia Giudice]

So the day before, houses that you voted for were your top two?

[Katie (Guest)]

Yes. And I got dropped from one of them. And then I ended up with another house that I did not want.

[Gia Giudice]

Got it.

[Daisy Kent]

And did you.

[Gia Giudice]

What house did you not want?

[Katie (Guest)]

Tridel was this house, which is. It's not good sorority at my school at all. Like, I don't know, a singular person in that house.

[Jane (Guest)]

I mean.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah, I guess I feel like nationally, Tridel is a pretty good one, but it was bad at your school.

[Katie (Guest)]

Yeah. And DG and Kappa were the two houses I had liked all along, and those were the two houses I had picked the night before, but I got dropped from Kappa.

[Gia Giudice]

Okay, got it.

[Katie (Guest)]

Yeah.

[Daisy Kent]

So you went in and you started talking about.

[Jane (Guest)]

And then.

[Gia Giudice]

Wait, I'm blanking. Because when you do your voting System and you rank your houses.

[Sophie Cunningham]

You.

[Gia Giudice]

If you didn't pick Tridel, how did that come up on your cards then?

[Katie (Guest)]

Because I don't think it really mattered. Like, I didn't necessarily drop them. I just ranked all of the houses in the order of which I wanted them.

[Gia Giudice]

So your third house was maybe tried out, and then you got dropped from your second. So then they bumped your third house up to your.

[Katie (Guest)]

Something along those lines. But there's no way Tridel was even my third choice.

[Daisy Kent]

Okay, so you were like, very much against tried out. Like, you were like, I do not want to be a part of that.

[Leslie (Guest)]

Okay.

[Katie (Guest)]

Exactly. And at my school, they strongly encourage us to not suicide bid.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah.

[Katie (Guest)]

And they tell the freshman that if you suicide bid, you will end up on the bottom of the house that you did picks. So I talked to my Rokai and she said, you absolutely can't suicide bid. Like, that would not be a smart decision. So I was like, all right, then I need to figure out a way to not be invited back to this house tomorrow on bid day. Because my school, especially this year, that specific year, if you made it to prep night with two houses, then you were guaranteed a bid from one of them. So basically, in my head, in the 10 minutes I had to show up at Tridel, I thought my best alternative was to make them drop me. So I get paired with this girl who was so sweet and I was crying. And I think she probably thought I was crying because I had found my home. But no, I was crying because I really didn't want to be there. And it had just been such a long and emotional week. And I was like, okay. Like, she asked me what I did this summer or what. I'm looking forward to something along those lines. And I said, I'm so excited because I'm gonna go visit my boyfriend at the Naval Academy. And I thought this was like a sly way to bring up my boyfriend. And it was like, relevant to the conversation, but I still knew I wasn't supposed to be doing that.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yes.

[Gia Giudice]

But then by pref round though, too, because you've already made it so far, I feel like the conversations start to get a little more personal. You do break the rules a little bit. And it's kind of okay.

[Katie (Guest)]

Totally.

[Gia Giudice]

Because you're also sitting there having an hour long conversation with this person. Totally.

[Katie (Guest)]

Yeah. But being on the other end of it, I didn't know that it was like, now. Okay. So I'm thinking, like, okay, this is great. Like, I'm going to end up getting dropped from this house. And sure enough, right as I mentioned, the Naval Academy, this girl who I'm talking to who's prepping me immediately freaks out and is like, oh, my gosh, I have always wanted to go to the Naval Academy. And then she goes on and on about how she applied there and she didn't get in, but she's going to enlist after college or do rotc. I immediately start crying more because I'm so overwhelmed.

[Gia Giudice]

You're like, wow, we're connecting now. I'm getting this house.

[Katie (Guest)]

Exactly. My plan completely backfired, and she's just like, it's okay. This will be your home too. Like, she's just feeling really bonded to me in this moment, and I am losing it. And I don't know what I'm supposed to do from there, but luckily it ended up working out for me. I've tried to be dry with the girl for the rest of the night and be show that I wasn't super interested, but while still being respectful because I don't have it in me to actually be blatantly rude. And I also know now that I could have said I don't see myself here because being on the other end of it, I know that that's a conversation that girls have while going through the process. And in hindsight, I should have said that instead of being uninterested and breaking the rules.

[Gia Giudice]

But luckily, what did you do in the end for when you went to go vote?

[Katie (Guest)]

So luckily I had that house as my first party, and then I had a break because there were two parties that I didn't have. And then I had the last party at my current house, which is dg, and I got to DG and I saw the girl I had talked to the day before who I had loved and bonded with. And actually we were from the same hometown. I didn't know her super well because she was a senior and I obviously was a freshman, but I saw her and immediately started crying and told her everything, which once again could have backfired. But thankfully she was a super sweet girl. And my mom was also a DG in this house at my school. So she had a great letter from my mom that she read to me.

[Gia Giudice]

Well, you and you had legacy at that point.

[Katie (Guest)]

Yes. So it was pretty clear that I was going to be safe. It was just the idea of, what if they don't like me and I have to sign this contract at the end of the night saying that I will stick by either house because that's how they do it. At my school, if you don't suicide bid and then you're not able to be a part of COB or continuous open bidding that year, you have to wait until recruitment the following year. So I was terrified. But thankfully it all ended up working out. I didn't end up suicide bidding, which I think was the smart decision because I totally could have ended up without a house, who knows? But it ended up working out and I could not be happier. But dead fishing is definitely a thing and I've definitely experienced it being on the other side and it's not a good position to be in on either end.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah, I mean, thank you for telling us your story and I'm really happy that you are in DG now and you found your home. But I mean, you also realize now that maybe you should have just been honest and you should have just told them you didn't see see yourself here. And it's great that you have that self reflection to kind of just see that. And I don't think you had the worst story. She didn't. She did end up connecting with you and really loving you. So I mean, I'm happy it all worked out and you know, sometimes honesty is the best answer.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah.

[Katie (Guest)]

Thank you so much. I think I definitely learned a lot from that process and definitely learned even more being on the other end of it. But I'm really happy about the way things turned out.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah, no, same. Well, thanks, Katie. Thanks so much for coming on.

[Katie (Guest)]

Thank you.

[Gia Giudice]

Hey, Jane. And welcome to Dirty Rush. So let's get into it. Is throwing around real?

[Jane (Guest)]

Yes, it is.

[Gia Giudice]

Okay, give it to me.

[Jane (Guest)]

Well, when someone throws around, they don't particularly want to return to that chapter and they purposefully act less interested in the girls they're talking to and they act mean on purpose so the chapter won't ask them back the next round and they can have a better chance of getting their preferred chapters back. And at least at the school I go to, we promote values based recruitment. So we want to take girls into our houses based on their personalities and what we like on about them rather than like what they look like. So throwing around really hurts this process because we're not getting to know the girls because of their personalities. We're getting a super boring version of them who doesn't want to be with us.

[Gia Giudice]

Valid.

[Daisy Kent]

Did you say that they're mean when they do throwing around?

[Jane (Guest)]

Yeah, sometimes girls can be mean. One time I had a girl who was like, can I ask you a super unique and interesting question that no one has ever Asked before. And then I was like, oh, yeah, sure. And she was like, what's your favorite color? And I was like, oh, like, I love purple. I love purple. That's my favorite color. What's yours? And she was like, I really like beige. Beige is my favorite color.

[Leslie (Guest)]

Beige.

[Jane (Guest)]

And I was like, oh, okay. What do you even say to that? Like, and why. How is that a unique question? That's the most basic question that anyone could ever ask, so.

[Daisy Kent]

Oh my gosh.

[Jane (Guest)]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

But honestly, beige, it's like, okay, you're such a smart ass.

[Leslie (Guest)]

Like, why is that your favorite?

[Gia Giudice]

Boring.

[Sophie Cunningham]

I have a question for all of you. I heard that you can tell Panhellenic if you think someone is throwing around. Is that accurate? Because I don't know how you would actually say, oh, they're throwing around, when maybe they actually are. Just a little bit.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah. I feel like, how can you accuse someone.

[Jane (Guest)]

You can report someone to Panhell for throwing around, but it is pretty difficult because they have to be breaking the rules somehow. You can't be kicked out of recruitment for being boring. So you have to be actively talking about things you're not supposed to, breaking rules or going against, like what the chapter's values are. So girls are able to get away with throwing rounds pretty easily.

[Sophie Cunningham]

I did find this out. Sorry to jump in, but because I thought, well, why not just not go to that party? I guess if you skip a party you can be eliminated from the rush.

[Jane (Guest)]

Absolutely. At my school you have to attend every single round you're invited back to or you're not allowed to participate in primary recruitment.

[Daisy Kent]

I think that's how my school was too.

[Gia Giudice]

Same. Yeah, you have to do.

[Daisy Kent]

That's pretty standard, like the respectful thing to do.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah, yeah. Just kind of get again, give everyone a shot because you'll be surprised. Maybe you do like a middle tier sorority over a high sorority.

[Jane (Guest)]

Yeah, yeah. I would absolutely much rather be in my chapter than a quote unquote top sorority at my school because the culture is toxic and I make much better friends here than I ever would anywhere else.

[Gia Giudice]

So you didn't necessarily participate in the throwing around, but you had you experienced it from other girls?

[Jane (Guest)]

Yes.

[Gia Giudice]

Other PNM's that were coming in to rush yourself.

[Jane (Guest)]

It's not incredibly common in my chapter, but it does happen. But a lot of other chapters at my school experience it a lot and it really hurts girls. And these girls go through so much work to prepare for primary recruitment. And then when they have to meet with every single PNM and it's really awful. It hurts their self confidence and makes them feel bad about the organization that they love so much and work so hard to join. So it really is a bummer.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah, of course. It's almost like you're. You're trying so hard to get to know a person, but you're not even getting to know them for who they call.

[Daisy Kent]

Especially when you like, we know and obviously, you know, like going and like doing recruitment. The other side of it, you put so much time and effort. So when someone comes in and they're like rude or like trying to talk about things just to get out of it, like, that's so disheartening.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

Because I mean, at the end of the day it's just. Yeah, it's disrespectful because I even like, no matter where you're ranked, each sorority puts so much effort into making their rush process perfect and exactly how they want it to be. And how they want it to be, like, represented and presented to the PNM's. So for girls to do that, it is a slap in the face. They should really give everyone a fair shot.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Jane, what were you gonna say?

[Jane (Guest)]

Oh, I was just saying one time a friend of mine even had a girl come in and she sat down and the first question she asked was, are you Jewish? Yep. Because she was wearing a Star of David and had a slightly Jewish last name. And they just. That was the first question they asked her. And it was simply because they didn't want to be at that house and they wanted to be dropped from that chapter.

[Daisy Kent]

They should have been dropped from recruitment.

[Jane (Guest)]

I think they ended up being dropped from recruitment because that's. It was crazy.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah, that's insane.

[Jane (Guest)]

And at least at my school, the chapters do work really hard to eliminate PNM's like that. So you can get, I guess, blacklisted from a lot of chapters for displaying that kind of behavior or negative comments towards other chapters. It can affect you in the recruitment process for sure. So you do have to be careful, obviously, but it is really hard to get caught for throwing rounds.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

Well, Jane, thank you so much. Thanks for telling us your story and I hope that you kind of shed light on this so future PNM's know to go into recruitment with an open mind and really give everyone their best efforts.

[Jane (Guest)]

Thank you guys.

[Gia Giudice]

Thank you.

[Jennifer Kessler]

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[Gia Giudice]

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[Katie (Guest)]

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[Gia Giudice]

Hey Leslie, and welcome to Dirty Rush. So was dead fishing or throwing around a thing at your university? Do you even know what I'm talking about?

[Leslie (Guest)]

I don't think we called it dead fishing, but they're definitely like, I. I know what throwing around is. And that was definitely like talked about, but it was never called dead fishing.

[Gia Giudice]

So you get. You get the concept of what it is. Okay.

[Katie (Guest)]

Yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

So what was your experience?

[Leslie (Guest)]

So I would say I didn't intentionally throw around. Like that wasn't my goal, but I was. So my freshman year I was on the dance team at my school, so I was stressed because I knew my teammates were going to be, like, on the other side of things. And even though they're not supposed to talk to you, they were, like, always in my ear, like, what we think of this, we think of that. So I was already stressed out. And then I'd given my Rho Gamma, whatever it's called, all of the dates or, like, the times I couldn't do. So I told them, like, during round two, I have a performance, like, I can't make this time. And it was on Zoom because it was during 2021. So I had told them, like, I can't do this time. I get my schedule back that morning, and in the middle of the performance, is my round scheduled. And I was like, okay, well, there's. I was too scared to go to Panhellenic and be like, okay, well, I can't make this work. I knew if I missed it that I was going to hold. Like, I had heard rumors like, oh, you could get dropped, like, whatever. So it's like, what can I do? So I go out for the performance, and it was like, this, like, neat, like, introducing the athletes to the student body. Something, like, really random. And I'm, like, thinking in my brain. I can, like, hear the chancellor's, like, giving a speech, and I'm, like, thinking my brain. I'm like, I'm supposed to be online in one minute. I'm supposed to be online in one minute. So as soon as the chancellor's like, okay, we're gonna introduce, like, another student group, I run off the court, and I immediately go. And I grab my laptop. I'm still in my uniform. I'm sweating. And I run into the bathroom that we had, like, in the area. I have my AirPods in, and I'm like, hello? Like, can you hear me? Because I didn't. I knew I wasn't supposed to be on Zoom anyways. Like, we were gonna go back out at some point. And I knew I had, like, I don't know, maybe two minutes before I would have to be back out. And so I started talking to this girl, and then at some point, I just cut it off. And I was, like, just gonna, like. Because there was nothing else I could do. I could hear my director being like, everybody needs to come back out. Everybody needs to come back out. So I was just like. And I could barely hear her anyways. I'm whispering. She's like, so, what's your major? And she was very quiet, too. Also, it wasn't a house that I was super Excited about the first date, too.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah.

[Daisy Kent]

That's what I was going to ask if it was a house that you wanted.

[Gia Giudice]

I mean, you were also a part of the dance team. You had a very big commitment. If you missed the dance, you would have probably gotten penalized or kicked off the team. You were a freshman. Like, you were also in a very interesting situation. You did show the effort to getting on the Zoom call. It wasn't like you were like.

[Daisy Kent]

If anything, they'd be like, oh, my gosh. Like, yeah.

[Gia Giudice]

Like, it's not like you were being completely selfish and, you know, disregarded the entire rush process. You did make the effort to go on the zoom, which I would have been stressed to even do that. I don't even know how you did that, but.

[Leslie (Guest)]

I know. But I was hoping at least since I did, like, I technically didn't miss around, I was like, maybe you would be okay. Yeah, they did still log on, but. So that was, I guess, me texting.

[Gia Giudice]

Did she know that, like, things got messed up with your schedule? Like, did you at least explain that part?

[Leslie (Guest)]

So this signal was so bad, I, like, don't even think she could understand what I was saying. She did. I, like, think that she really. I was in a stall. I think she realized that I was legitimately, like, in a bathroom, and I was like, yeah, like, I'm sorry. Like, I'm kind of in the middle of things. She was like, what? Like, I could even. Like, I know. And, like, this also wasn't a chapter that, like, a lot of chapters have girls and dance team. This was, like, not one. She was definitely like, who is this, like, cheerleader girl, like, talking to me on Zoom in her uniform, too. She probably thought I was, like, just pulling up my uniform. Pull up my uniform. But. So he didn't intentionally throw around, technically. But I did, I guess, technically misread. And I'm not. I didn't end up in that chapter. But that was my.

[Gia Giudice]

So they. They dropped you after that?

[Leslie (Guest)]

They did. They dropped.

[Daisy Kent]

Yeah. Okay.

[Gia Giudice]

I mean, honestly, I'm not mad at this.

[Leslie (Guest)]

I'm really.

[Gia Giudice]

I feel like you tried your best, and this is a very unique situation that, like, doesn't happen every day.

[Jane (Guest)]

I know.

[Leslie (Guest)]

But I definitely did feel bad because I didn't even, like, remember her name or I was like, should I have reached out to her? But I was like, it's probably fine. I'm sure some weird things have happened.

[Gia Giudice]

Things were, you know, chaotic. Yeah. Yeah, you were.

[Daisy Kent]

You had a lot going on.

[Gia Giudice]

You were. You were dancing at a Pep rally thing.

[Daisy Kent]

Pep rally.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah.

[Leslie (Guest)]

So I, like, I knew which houses, obviously, I was more excited about, and I think there is definitely the vibe at school was like, okay, well, if you're seeing 10 houses in a day and like, your social battery only has, you know, so much, I think there's definitely houses that, especially as the rounds got later, you kind of knew. But I would say that was the only time it was like for me personally, but I did, I do definitely know people that were like, well, I'm going into X, Y, and Z, like, so at least I don't have to be super on or, you know, things.

[Gia Giudice]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you seem like a very sweet girl, so I, you know, I think the efforts were there. And again, very unique situation, very unique scenario. So, honestly, everything happens for a reason. You got booked during that time when you were supposed to be dancing, so maybe that sorority, you know, wasn't supposed to be for you, so. Totally. You know, I don't think you were intentionally trying to be rude. So I know obviously some people can have that attitude and think that they're better than certain sororities, but, you know, I think it's good to go into every round really just showing your best efforts because you are at the end of the day representing yourself. So you want people to, you know, have a good image and view on you and just think, you know, show your best self. And at the end of the day, if you got all the houses back and you were the one eliminating them, at least take it as a compliment at the end of the day, you know.

[Leslie (Guest)]

Totally. Yeah. No, I, I definitely agree. And also, especially, I don't know if this keys at other schools, but at UCLA for sure, everyone's friends with everyone. Like, my roommates were in different sororities than me. Like, you know, it wasn't like, so it could have easily gotten back to them. Like, other people, like, oh, so and so, like, was very clear, like, didn't want to be there, like, you know, whatever. So that's also something I think people need to know before they, like, enter rush. Like, if you think you're throwing one house, like, you could be throwing five houses. Like, they could go home and be like, tell their roommates this girl was so rude.

[Gia Giudice]

Like, oh, yeah, well, even think about your pie caps. I, I don't know if you, you called them row cow. Yeah, I, I, I called them pie caps. But they all, you know, as they're all guiding you guys, bringing you to open houses, bringing you to every rounds, but then they're all coming together at the end and each one of them are from different sororities so they could all talk too, so totally. But Leslie, thank you so much for coming on Dirty Rush, and I am happy you ended up where you belonged. Good hustle. I saw the hustle.

[Jennifer Kessler]

Foreign.

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[Leslie (Guest)]

This is an Iheart podcast. Guaranteed human.