Legally Brunette: Bryan Kohberger, Menendez Brothers & Blake Lively Updates

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge
Special Episode: Legally Brunette: Bryan Kohberger, Menendez Brothers & Blake Lively Updates
Host(s): Emily Simpson (with Shane)
Release Date: July 30, 2025
Main Theme:
A detailed, conversational update and discussion of three major legal cases in true crime and pop culture: the Menendez Brothers’ resentencing and parole, the legal firestorm around Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, and newly released evidence in the Bryan Kohberger Idaho murders.
Note: This episode is a Legally Brunette segment, hosted by Emily Simpson and her husband Shane, not the regular “Two Ts” hosts.

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Episode Overview

Emily Simpson, with her husband Shane, dives into high-profile legal cases, providing updates, personal takes, and breakdowns of the newest developments. The light banter, legal analysis, and cultural context make for a podcast episode that’s both informative and engaging, with Emily often working out facts and opinions live on mic.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Amy Bradley Disappearance Clarification (03:45–06:17)

• Emily addresses listener questions about the Amy Bradley disappearance following their previous episode.
• Conflicting reports surround what was left behind in Amy’s cabin—wallet, key card, cigarettes, sandals—reflecting the challenge of reconstructing a 27-year-old unsolved case.
• Emily brings up a critical point in the human trafficking theory:

  “Sex traffickers don’t normally kidnap or look for people that are with a family.” (05:10, Emily)
  Adds that sex trafficking victims are typically alone/runaways; being with family makes immediate action more likely.

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2. Menendez Brothers Case Update (06:22–13:05)

Resentencing & Parole Hearings

• The Menendez brothers were recently resentenced to 50 years; they’ve served enough time to be eligible for parole.
• A parole hearing is scheduled for August 21–22. Previous hearings were delayed due to LA fires.

Habeas Petition & New Evidence

• Menendez brothers' team also filed a habeas petition, based on new evidence not presented at trial.
• Key new evidence:
  • Eric’s 1988 letter to cousin Andy Kano referencing “the abuse with my dad is still going on. I’m scared...” (08:58, Emily)
  • Roy Rosello’s testimony (Menudo band member): claims of sexual abuse by Jose Menendez.
• Both pieces suggest ongoing abuse prior to the killings and support the brothers’ claims.
• The judge ruled this evidence “prima facie,” meaning “on the face...the evidence is credible, and it would most likely change the verdict if it had been presented at that time.” (11:05, Emily)

Prospects for Release

• Two possible paths for release: parole (statutory, simpler), or successful habeas petition (based on wrongful detention due to new evidence).
• Emily’s Take:

  “I wasn’t so sure before if they would be released...I think these guys are going to get out of prison.” (11:46, Emily)

Eric Menendez's Medical Condition

• Recently hospitalized with a serious kidney issue. Mark Garagos (attorney) has called for Eric’s immediate release (parole furlough) on medical grounds.

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3. Blake Lively vs. Justin Baldoni – Content Creator Subpoenas (13:53–20:26)

Blake Lively Retreats from Subpoena Blitz

• Lively’s legal team withdrew subpoenas against small content creators who had reported pro-Baldoni content.
  • Controversy: Lively sought bank records, suspecting the content creators had been paid by Baldoni’s team.
  • Emily:

    “The subpoenas were very overreaching. She wanted bank statements and communications...Her ego is so out of control.” (15:02, Emily)

• The move generated massive online backlash, with creators unable to afford legal representation and fearing for their social media livelihoods.
• Shane jokes about their podcast’s size:

  “We’re really tiny then? Because we didn’t get one [a subpoena].” (14:08, Shane)

• Lively’s team also subpoenaed high-profile critics, such as Perez Hilton and Candace Owens.

Legal Backpedaling

• Lively’s legal team withdrew most subpoenas following creator pushback and media outcry.
• Deposition for Lively postponed; new court date for trial is March 9, 2026.
• Emily continues to question Lively’s PR strategy, likening her to Meghan Markle for being tone-deaf and lacking self-awareness.

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4. Bryan Kohberger & the Idaho Murders – Major Document Dump & New Revelations (26:07–59:54)

Change in Gag Order and Evidence Release

• Kohberger (the suspect in the Idaho murders) accepted a plea deal; the gag order on the case was lifted.
• Over 300 documents released provide new, graphic details.

Case Walkthrough & Theories

• Sequence of Murders:
  • Kaylee and Maddie killed first (3rd floor); Kaylee was likely the intended target due to asphyxiation and more intimate, violent wounds.
  • Emily describes new, disturbing details: Kaylee’s face was “nearly disfigured;” Maddie suffered “severe facial trauma.”
    (29:04, Emily referencing police documents)
  • Evidence of a possible second weapon used in the attack.
• Zanna and Ethan killed on the 2nd floor. Emily and Shane debate the sequence—if Ethan was killed in his sleep or after waking during the attack.

  “If they have ... a male and a female ... who’s he going to kill first? He’s probably going to go after the male.” (33:53, Shane)

• The role (or lack thereof) of the house dog Murphy (a golden doodle) is discussed humorously.

Survivor Actions & Aftermath

• Two roommates survived; neither called 911 immediately, possibly due to confusion or assuming noises/people in the house were normal for a party house.

  “If I’m getting murdered at the end of our bed, you better get up and do something.” (32:18, Emily, to Shane)

• Blood was found leaking from the house exterior; survivors finally called 911 at noon, hours after the crime.

Motive, Background, and Kohberger’s Persona

• Kaylee had reported feeling stalked; roommates didn’t alert parents or authorities.
• Shane:

  “If a child calls you and says, ‘I think someone’s been following me,’ how would we respond?” (47:58, Shane)

• Police found previous injuries on Kohberger, possibly from past altercations, and a match on Tinder with a woman he creeped out by asking about “the worst way to die” and mentioning a K-bar knife.
• The knife sheath with Kohberger’s DNA was left at the scene—key evidence.

Victim Impact Statements

• Kaylee’s sister Olivia delivered a powerful, direct statement to Kohberger at sentencing:

  “Sit up straight when I talk to you ... If you had not attacked them in their sleep, Kaylee would have kicked your ass ... You didn’t win, you aren’t special or deep, no one is scared of you. Today.” (54:29, Emily, quoting Olivia)

• Olivia intentionally learned everything about Kohberger to “make him small,” describing her strategy in media interviews.
• Kohberger sentenced to four consecutive life terms at one of the nation’s worst prisons (Idaho Maximum Security Institution).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Sex traffickers don’t normally kidnap or look for people that are with a family.” (05:10, Emily)
• On Lively subpoenas: “...her ego is so out of control.” (15:02, Emily)
• “I wasn’t so sure before if they would be released...I think these guys are going to get out of prison.” (11:46, Emily on Menendez brothers)
• “The subpoenas were very overreaching. She wanted bank statements and communications because her thinking, or her attorney's thinking, was that these content creators … must be getting paid from Baldoni's camp.” (15:02, Emily)
• Shane, on the Kohberger house sequence: “If they have ... a male and a female ... who’s he going to kill first? He’s probably going to go after the male.” (33:53, Shane)
• Olivia Goncalves’ statement to Kohberger: “Sit up straight when I talk to you ... If you had not attacked them in their sleep, Kaylee would have kicked your ass ... You didn’t win, you aren’t special or deep. No one is scared of you. Today.” (54:29, Emily, quoting Olivia)

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Important Timestamps

• Amy Bradley recap/discussion on trafficking theory: 03:45–06:17
• Menendez Brothers resentencing/parole: 06:22–13:05
• Eric Menendez health & legal appeals: 12:15–13:05
• Blake Lively/Baldoni content creator subpoenas: 13:53–20:26
• Kohberger Idaho murders, new documents: 26:07–59:54
  • Case graphic details & theories: 27:02–40:47
  • Survivor actions & house dynamics: 39:47–42:41
  • Kaylee’s stalking, Kohberger background: 47:13–54:29
  • Olivia Goncalves’ impact statement: 54:22–56:58

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Overall Tone & Style

Emily’s style is equal parts meticulous and conversational. She checks facts as she speaks, occasionally banters and jokes (especially with her husband Shane), and frankly shares opinions on both legal process and personalities involved in these high-profile cases.
Her coverage balances legal explanation, cultural context, and empathy for victims, all while keeping it lively and accessible.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode...

This Legally Brunette episode delivers a packed and nuanced conversation about three of the year’s most-watched legal sagas. Listeners get factual updates, theories, and emotional context—with real-time commentary, sharp quotes, and a sense of both gravity and humanity for all involved.

The episode stands out for its willingness to ask uncomfortable questions, its direct approach to victim impact, and its blend of legal precision and everyday curiosity.

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[Emily Simpson]

Hi, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I will be your host today, Emily Simpson with Just Shane. I love that when you guys DM me about the cases or what your feelings are for Legally Brunette that you always say just Shane entertains me or just Shane is funny. So you've actually like, you've become Just Shane.

[Shane]

Okay, good. Glad that pleases people.

[Emily Simpson]

Anyway, the first thing I just want to start off with is we did an episode yesterday on the Amy Bradley disappearance, and a few of you DM me you listened to it. Thank you for listening. I appreciate it. And I know there were some conflicting reports as far as whether she left her wallet behind, the key card behind, the cigarettes behind. So I tried my best to research and figure out, but it just really comes down to. It's just there's conflicting reports about what happened. I read when Amy Bradley vanished from the cruise ship. Her wallet, a box of cigarettes, and a lighter were reported reportedly left behind in the cabin. Her sandals were also found inside the suite. However, there are conflicting accounts about whether the key card was left behind or somehow on her person or lost. We don't know. And again, it's been 27 years. So I even think when the brother, Brad, if he's, you know, he's on a media round right now and he's doing podcasts, I don't know if he even has a clear memory of the exact facts at that time. So that's where the conflicts come in. So anyway, we do our best to do the research and give you accurate information, but, you know, with a case that's 27 years old, we don't always know exactly what happened, and people's memories are a little off. I just had one more thing to say about Amy Bradley that I thought was a good point. When I was doing research, there were some people and I thought this was. I never really thought about this, but Amy Bradley was on a cruise ship with her family, and it really comes down to whether she disappeared from falling or jumping off the ship or whether she was human trafficked in some way and removed from the. And we were talking, I was kind of like putting, you know, all these details into categories, trying to figure out which way I wanted to go. And a point that leads to maybe not possibly sex trafficking is the fact that she was on a ship with her family. And according to experts in sex trafficking, human trafficking, sex traffickers don't normally kidnap or look for people that are with a family.

[Shane]

More. More like runaways or someone single. So they don't have someone to look out for them or be trying to research investig.

[Emily Simpson]

Immediately when she's removed, if this is allegedly. If she's allegedly removed from the ship or course or. Or drugged or taken or whatever, she has a family on the ship that's going to immediately notice her disappearance and report it, and there's going to be people immediately in action. So that's not a normal victim of sex trafficking or human trafficking. They normally search for people, for young people or whatever that are alone, that aren't with a family, that aren't with parents, things like that. So anyway, I just thought that was a good point. Just wanted to add.

[Shane]

So to add. To add to the myst.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes, we'll just add more elements to the mystery. And I'm just.

[Shane]

Even still not solved.

[Emily Simpson]

Confused. We're going to do some updates on some other cases we've done. I just want to do a brief update on Menendez because there's been some action on the case. First of all, we do know that I don't remember the exact date, but maybe it was a month or so ago. The Menendez brothers were resentenced by a judge.

[Shane]

50 years.

[Emily Simpson]

They were given 50 years. They've already served. Well, they've served enough time to be eligible for parole. So they do have a parole hearing. August 21st and 22nd. They have a parole hearing scheduled. So at that time they could possibly be granted.

[Shane]

They had one in June. Right. And it was rescheduled. Was that because of the fires? It was rescheduled.

[Emily Simpson]

I believe that is what LA fires. I think. I think they did have a parole hearing earlier. It was rescheduled because of the fires. Now they have a parole hearing now.

[Shane]

It's going to be a tsunami.

[Emily Simpson]

Now it might be a tsunami, yes. We were on tsunami watch last night. Shane was not bothered at all by the tsunami. I was having a nervous breakdown. But other than that, that's usually how our marriage works.

[Shane]

I slept fine.

[Emily Simpson]

She slept fine. I was up all night. Like it's a tsunami gonna hit Our house. It didn't. So anyway, so we have the parole hearing come up where they could possibly be paroled and released that way. However, they had a habeas petition. And now this is a different, completely different track. You've got the resentencing, which is where they're on track to possibly be paroled and they've be been re sentenced. And then you have a completely different track, which is the habeas petition. The habeas petition believe was filed back In, I think 2022 or 2023, something like that. And it's basically what habius means. It's a Latin terms that. That basically means like bring the body. Like it translates to. And that is a Latin term that has to do with if someone is unjustly detained. The resentencing is by statute. And it's completely different than I get the habeas. The habeas has to do with the new evidence that resurfaced after they were sentenced. So the habeas is basically saying, hey, these guys are being unlawfully detained because there is this new evidence that has come forward. And the new evidence, if it was presented at the time of trial.

[Shane]

I see.

[Emily Simpson]

Most likely there would have been a different verdict.

[Shane]

Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

And the two pieces of new evidence which we've talked about previously, because we've done, you know, we've done a full Menendez podcast at one point and when we first started. But the two pieces of evidence are one, it's the letter that Eric wrote to his cousin Andy Kano back in. Apparently he wrote it in 1998. 88. Sorry, I. There's so many decades in my life now, I can't even keep that up.

[Shane]

The milli vanilla era.

[Emily Simpson]

The milli vanilla era. Yeah. It was written in 88.

[Shane]

Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

Eight months prior to the actual killings. And he wrote his cousin making references to the abuse with my dad is still going on. I'm scared. Things like that. You could actually find the full letter if you Google it. But the letter was not found until. And this is conflicting too, but apparently this letter came up in an interview with Barbara Walters in like 2015. And then their attorneys were like, wait, we never heard about this letter.

[Shane]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

And then Robert Rand, who is the reporter that's been invested in the Menendez brothers for years and years and years and wrote a book called the Menendez Brothers. And I actually read it. He has a good relationship with the family. Apparently in like 2018, he went to the aunt's house and went through the cousins things. The cousin is no longer alive. He died years ago.

[Shane]

And that's how then the letter surface.

[Emily Simpson]

Then the letter was found, apparently in his personal effects. So now this letter proves.

[Shane]

Or. Well, it tends to prove.

[Emily Simpson]

Tends to prove, proves, however you want to look at it, that the abuse was real, the abuse was ongoing, and that Eric was reaching out to his cousin, talking about it prior to the murders. That. The second piece of evidence that's presented in the habeas petition is the testimony of the Roy Rosello from Menudo that claims that he was sexually assaulted or abused by Jose. He was very young. Apparently he was taken to his home and abused. So now you have two pieces of evidence that are, you know, alleging that.

[Shane]

It sounds like the resentment thing is a more likely and simpler approach if they can pull that off.

[Emily Simpson]

It does.

[Shane]

Excuse me. Not the resentencing, but the parole. Right. The parole hearing that would allow them to be released because then they've served adequate time.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, the habeas is interesting, too, because the judge ruled that the new evidence presented is, he said, a prima facie case, meaning prima facie means on the face, the evidence is credible.

[Shane]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

So the way he looks at it is like, on the face. This new evidence that you have presented is credible, and it would most likely change the verdict if it had been presented at that time. So now the ball is really in the court, or the ball is now.

[Shane]

With the balls in the court of the court.

[Emily Simpson]

The ball is in the court of the court. The ball is in the DA's hands, court, whatever, where they have to prove that it's not credible.

[Shane]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

So the burden really, it's really a good thing for the Menendez brothers because the judge is like, hey, this is credible evidence. I'm behind it, you know?

[Shane]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

Now it's on you guys to prove that it's not. So, anyway, that's where we're at with Menendez.

[Shane]

There's some hope for them.

[Emily Simpson]

Got two, really two tracks of a way to be released. And I really. I don't. I. I wasn't so sure before if they would be released. And now I'm like, I think these. I think these guys are going to get out of prison.

[Shane]

Right.

[Emily Simpson]

And relatively soon.

[Shane]

Yeah, maybe. Very well.

[Emily Simpson]

So, yeah.

[Shane]

You might be having lunch with them sooner than you thought.

[Emily Simpson]

I might. I mean, it could happen. Yeah. I mean, my life keeps coming full circle, so I feel like, you know, I could sit down, maybe have we could do a little podcast with them, maybe.

[Shane]

Maybe.

[Emily Simpson]

All right. Also, Eric Menendez has been hospitalized, diagnosed with a serious Medical condition.

[Shane]

Is that the kidney stones or is that just rumor?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, it says kidney issue. I don't know. Eric Menendez family has confirmed he's in the hospital and has been diagnosed with a serious medical condition. A number of u. S. Outlets are reporting that Menendez has a kidney issue.

[Shane]

Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

All this, although this has not been publicly confirmed. Menendez was taken from the San Diego prison in which he has been held for years to an outside medical facility. Mark Garagos, who he appeared on tmz, was calling for Eric Menendez's immediate release, saying it's a serious condition and he thinks that the parole should be furloughed. Parole furloughed. I believe that means, like, just parole them and they can be just out. Because he has a medical condition, he needs to be out.

[Shane]

So I guess serious sounds more than serious sounds more than kidney stones. It might be like kidney failure or infection or something.

[Emily Simpson]

Right? He says, I think the proper term. And he could be medically furloughed in advance of the hearing so that he can work with the parole attorney and get up to speed and be ready and do it and give it his best shot. I think that's the only fair and equitable thing to do. So basically saying they should just be paroled early. He can work with the parole attorney and then they can work things out, and hopefully he gets medical attention and release. So we will continue to follow the Menendez brothers. Let's go into just a little Update on Lively vs. Baldoni. I actually got really sick of talking about Blake lively. She just to me, in my humble opinion, I'm gonna get served a subpoena just by talking about her. So I have to be careful. Hopefully they don't listen to legally brunette.

[Shane]

You're not that famous, Emily. I don't know what you think you have, what kind of leverage you have to pull on this.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I'm only saying that because I don't know if you followed it, but apparently she's sent subpoenas to all these little tiny content creators.

[Shane]

Oh, yeah. So we're really tiny then? Because we didn't get one.

[Emily Simpson]

We didn't get a subpoena. So apparently we're not on the road.

[Shane]

Maybe one day.

[Emily Simpson]

Maybe one day you will be big.

[Shane]

Enough for Blake lively to not like you.

[Emily Simpson]

So Blake lively drops her controversial investigation into small time content creators. So apparently she's now dropping a lot of these subpoenas. All these content content creators were going nuts. I mean, they didn't know. And this is an issue. First of all these are just. A lot of them are just young people that are out there.

[Shane]

It's not. It's not their day job.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Right.

[Shane]

They're just a hobby. They're creating content creators, their opinions.

[Emily Simpson]

And she was subpoena. Subpoena. Ning. Subpoena.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Ning.

[Emily Simpson]

Subpoenaing. I can't even say that. Say it.

[Shane]

Subpoenaing.

[Emily Simpson]

See, you can't say it either.

[Shane]

No. But you know what a word that ends in ing is called?

[Emily Simpson]

What?

[Shane]

A gerund.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, well, thank you.

[Shane]

So the gerund of subpoena is very difficult.

[Emily Simpson]

It's very difficult. I'm just going to say she sent subpoenas. But the problem was these subpoenas were very overreaching. She wanted bank statements and communications because her thinking, or her attorney's thinking was that these content creators who were all basically pro Justin Baldoni, that there's no way they could have been pro Justin Baldoni unless they were getting paid from his camp.

[Shane]

So.

[Emily Simpson]

So they were asking for bank statements because they were looking for proof that, like, all these content creators were being, you know, paid to create content that goes against her.

[Shane]

Really what she's thinking is, why didn't we think of that?

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

We got to take them down. Why didn't we think of that?

[Emily Simpson]

But you know what that goes to. Again, this is what I keep thinking when I read about this stuff is that her ego is so out of control.

[Shane]

Well, she's like Meghan Markle. She just doesn't. She has no.

[Emily Simpson]

She's tone deaf with, like, no self awareness.

[Shane]

No.

[Emily Simpson]

Like, she couldn't think, hey, I look bad because I just look bad. It has to be. I look bad and they're making me look bad because they're getting paid to make me look bad. It couldn't be that they really think.

[Shane]

That I look bad because I look bad because I don't look bad.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

Are her and Meghan Markle friends?

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know. Probably.

[Shane]

I'd imagine so. They'd probably get along. Do they share the same PR crisis team?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I feel like when you have a PR crisis team, like, you shouldn't brag about it.

[Shane]

Maybe you shouldn't be playing victim.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. But whatever. We'll move on from that. In court documents obtained by Us Weekly, Lively's legal team informed the court of her decision to withdraw the subpoenas on July, 26 days after the YouTubers asked the judge to intervene. I know a lot of. I watched some of this content, and a lot of these YouTubers and small time content makers. They were really freaking out because they didn't have. Well, yeah, because they don't have the money to go and hire an attorney.

[Shane]

Nor do they. Nor did they have any interest, like any anticipation. They didn't assume that they'd be taken and hauled into court. They were just sharing on their Instagram accounts, like news. And they probably share lots of news or whatever is pop culture.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. And it's also, to me, it's also.

[Shane]

Forbid people don't like Blake Lively.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Right.

[Emily Simpson]

I mean, lots of people don't like me.

[Shane]

That's correct. We could just met some of them.

[Emily Simpson]

We could just go through my dm.

[Shane]

There may or may not be one on the couch right now.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, my gosh. In a letter submitted to the judge, Lively's attorney stated, based on the third party's representations made in meet and convers public statements and or information provided in their moving papers, there is no further information required from the subpoenas as to these specific third parties at this time. They continued, Ms. Lively has therefore withdrawn the subpoenas. As to them, I, you know, and I, I think the reason that they withdrew the subpoenas is because they just keep getting more backl. Like, I don't understand their decision making process where they just keep making movements forward. That. That create more backlash.

[Shane]

Well, I don't know. And they're probably not getting the greatest advice in the attorneys. I'm sure the attorneys are thinking, look at all those billable hours.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, yeah. At the end of the day, do the attorneys care? They don't care. They don't care what her reputation is. They will backlash.

[Shane]

She's getting offend her zealously until she stops paying them.

[Emily Simpson]

Exactly.

[Shane]

That's really all it is.

[Emily Simpson]

Right, but that's a lot of bill. Can you imagine the billable hours it took to send all those subpoenas out to all those content creators?

[Shane]

A lot.

[Emily Simpson]

I mean, her legal fees are astronomical at this point.

[Shane]

It's her problem.

[Emily Simpson]

Lively's lawyers also have also sent subpoenas to outspoken critics of hers, including Perez Hilton and Candace Owens. As for the next steps, Lively's scheduled deposition has been delayed and she will no longer be questioned by Baldoni's attorneys. On July 31, I was actually in New York City when she was supposed to be deposed. And I know Brian Friedman was in New York City at the same time. I was hoping to just, you know, randomly run into everyone. I was.

[Shane]

Deposition room.

[Emily Simpson]

I was gonna be like, hello, I'm sorry, I thought this was. Watch what happens Live. I'm in the wrong studio, but unfortunately.

[Shane]

I don't think they do depots in studios.

[Emily Simpson]

Why not? I mean, these are all. These are all entertainment people anyway.

[Shane]

No show.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I. I don't know the exact details of.

[Shane]

Why did it not take place?

[Emily Simpson]

It did not take place.

[Shane]

It's probably Meghan Markle. She's probably like, you don't have to show up to those things.

[Emily Simpson]

What, you think those best friends and they're giving each other advice.

[Shane]

People, they're totally tone deaf with what the public thinks of them.

[Emily Simpson]

So, anyway, then her deposition got scheduled again.

[Shane]

I didn't know you had a soft spot for Meghan Markle.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't at all. See, I did, but I didn't know you disliked her so much.

[Shane]

She's very tone deaf.

[Emily Simpson]

The case is set to proceed to trial on March 9, 2026, where both sides will finally have their day in court. I don't know. I still. I still feel like at this point, Blake Lively needs to just. Just, like, back out, let it go, try to save some face. I say that every time we talk about it, but it just seems like every time I say she needs to save face and back out, she does something more outrageous. So.

[Shane]

So what? Yeah. What's her next move?

[Emily Simpson]

There was a new date for her to be deposed, and then I just read as I was, like, googling more information that.

[Shane]

That she's not getting movie deals. So what's she so busy with that she can't do the depot?

[Emily Simpson]

I don't. I don't know. You should ask her. Ask Meghan Markle, your friend.

[Shane]

I'm gonna slip into their DMs.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay. See? Let me know how that foreign.

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If there's anything as perfectly dramatic and totally engrossing as reality tv, it might be the procedural shows on primetime TV right now.

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If you're a fan of one of.

Their shows, then there's a new podcast you'll want to check out called the One Chicago Podcast from USG Audio and Wolf Entertainment.

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Each episode joins host and former Chicago cop turned Chicago PD producer Brian Lucci, and he's joined by the actors, producers and writers behind the epic One Chicago Universe.

To listen to the One Chicago Podcast, search for One Chicago Podcast on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. That's One Chicago Podcast.

If you're looking for wine that's not just delicious, but also total Crowd pleaser. Let me introduce you to Josh Sellars. This California wine brand has over a dozen award winning wines. From crisp Sauvignon Blancs to velvety Merlots. You can find the perfect wine for every mood and every occasion. If you're hosting a holiday get together, grab a bottle of their velvety Cabernet Sauvignon. It pairs perfectly with those rich, decadent dishes. Your hosting game will be instantly elevated. Or maybe you're just kicking back with friends after a long week of gift hunting and holiday chaos. That's an ideal Josh Cellars Pinot Grigio moment. Every bottle of Josh Cellers is made for sharing with the people who matter most. The wine is crafted to exacting standards, so every pour is beautifully balanced, smooth and absolutely delicious. With so many amazing wines to choose from, there's always a reason to enjoy some Josh Cellars. This season, Josh Cellars is a proud sponsor of two teas in a pod. Visit www.joshselars.com teapot t e a P O D and join the wine club to get 20% off. Please drink responsibly. Before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes. Shopping used to feel more fun. But here's a confession. Twat stirs. You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. Because on ebay it's not just shopping. It's a full on fashion pursuit. And when you find the thing, that adrenaline hit is real. I have sold clothes on ebay and know the feeling of finding the perfect item on ebay. My daughter Sophia is the one who inspired me to use ebay. She loves it as well. We are big fans. It's about the thrill of finding pieces that feel like me. And I want you to find the pieces that feel like you. There's always more to discover. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay. Authenticity guarantee Ebay Things people love.

[Emily Simpson]

So we're gonna move on to Bryan Coburger. I did not think. We've already done a full episode if you guys haven't listened to it. On the Idaho murders. And Bryan Coburger. Actually, I don't like to use his name.

[Shane]

Yeah, what's his. What is his reference now?

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, so a lot of these people that are talking about the Idaho murder case are referring to don't like to use Mr. Killer. Mr. Killer as inmate number blah blah, blah, blah.

[Shane]

Well, not blah. It's not blah blah blah.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, go ahead.

[Shane]

It's a number 16321416 3, 2, 1, 4.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, so now, now you have to.

[Shane]

Say that every single time.

[Emily Simpson]

1, 6, 3. I can't remember that. 1, 6, 3, 2.

[Shane]

How about inmate nutcase, inmate psycho?

[Emily Simpson]

Let's just call him psychopath. Let's leave it at that. So now we know the gag order has been lifted on this case because he took a plea deal. So when he took the plea deal, all this evidence that had been preserved, the witnesses that were under a gag order, now everyone is coming forward.

[Sponsor Announcer]

All.

[Emily Simpson]

All this information is coming out daily. He took a plea deal. He's in prison. So now it's done, it's over. So now there's all this detailed information coming forward. So there's more than 300 documents released by the Moscow Police Department. The new documents shed light on the brutality of the slayings, details about the days and weeks that led up to the murders, and the extensive pool of evidence that investigators have been gathering against Mr. Psychopath. Okay, so let's just go through some of this new information that's come forward. The bodies were found brutally savage. And this is. I.

[Shane]

Did we. Okay. Not to. Do we not know that, though? I thought we assumed. Do we all just assume that it was a violent.

[Emily Simpson]

No, this is what we knew before all this information is coming forward. We knew. Knew that four college students were murdered with a knife.

[Shane]

Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

And that's really the exception.

[Shane]

We assumed it was gruesome, but it's just showing. It's much more gruesome now. Kaylee's the intended target.

[Emily Simpson]

That's what they think?

[Shane]

Yeah, that's.

[Emily Simpson]

They think that Kaylee is the intended target, and that.

[Shane]

Is that because there was some connection with him and her, like DMS or something?

[Emily Simpson]

No, they've. The police have come forward and the investigators have said that there is no evidence that there was any kind of interaction with him. On.

[Shane]

Why do we believe Kaylee's the first.

[Emily Simpson]

Was the target now that all this stuff is coming forward? There have been witnesses have come forward and said that days leading up to the murder that Kaylee had thought she was being followed by someone and that she had some sort of stalker.

[Shane]

Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

And also they think maybe Kaylee was the intended victim because she was the only one that had the injuries where he actually choked her, so asphyxiated her, and none of the other ones did. So that was more, I guess you could say from a psychological perspective that was more of a intimate type killing. That was more of a personal something that. So that's why they think she was the intended victim. Okay. So Maddie and Kaylee were the first two. They're on the third floor. Maddie Mogan had visible cuts on her forearm and hands and severe facial trauma. That's new. We did not know that her face was basically disfigured.

[Shane]

So from a. From a weapon or.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, it says Madison had a gash under her right eye, which appeared to go from the corner of her eye to her nose. Kaylee, who we think was the intended victim, suffered such facial injuries that she was nearly disfigured. And actually, one of the housemates that survived that tried to identify the body identified her wrong in the beginning because she was so completely disfigured. I guess they now think that there was a second murder weapon, not just the knife that has never been found, but they found the knife sheath. But apparently Kaylee's wounds to her face had some sort of like, diagonal pattern, like blunt force trauma. So that's how he disfigured her face. So there is some second.

[Shane]

Okay, so we're weapon upstairs with the first two murders. We're still on the third floor downstairs.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane]

And there's people downstairs. Well, you said third floor.

[Emily Simpson]

He started on the third floor.

[Shane]

Okay, so is anyone on the second floor? Do we know?

[Emily Simpson]

Yes. So he started on the third floor. That's Kaylee and Madison. So we just talked about their wounds. Then he goes down to the second floor. I don't know. Perhaps he was leaving. And they think that maybe in the hallway he ran into Zanna, because this is the same time frame when Zanna got a doordash delivery. So she had gone down to the kitchen to get food. Right. At the same time that he's in the house. So they think that possibly he ran into her on the hallway and then they went fight whatever happened. And he followed her into her bedroom on the second floor. So now we're to Zanna.

[Shane]

This is why always ask me to go eat your door dash late at night.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. Are you kidding?

[Shane]

You're like, can you go downstairs to get my door dash?

[Emily Simpson]

I never go get the door dash. I'm not getting murdered.

[Shane]

Let my husband do that.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, that's. Why do you think I have so much life insurance on you? All right, so now let's go back to Zanna here. The Zanna one is the most confusing for me.

[Shane]

So I'm sorry, what floor is she on?

[Emily Simpson]

The third? Second. I don't know. There's so many floors in this house. Well, I guess there's three, but it feels like a lot. It feels like there's a Lot in this house. And there's a lot of people. All right, we are now on the second floor.

[Shane]

Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

We started on the third floor. He's leaving. He's going down to the second floor.

[Shane]

And what happens on the second floor?

[Emily Simpson]

He runs into Zanna. Allegedly. And then, I mean, we. Nobody know.

[Shane]

This is what's believed to be.

[Emily Simpson]

Right? I mean, we're just putting it together based on the evidence and what they know. So apparently he runs into Zanna. There's a. And then they go into the second floor bedroom and Zanna is sharing the bedroom with Ethan, her boyfriend. Ethan is in the bed asleep. This is the part where I'm completely confused. He gets. They get in a fight. Like a. I mean, Zanna is going to hard. Like they're not in the. No, they're in the bedroom at the end of the bed. So Zanna's body was found at the end of the bed on the floor. So she is not in the bed. They have a vicious, brutal fight between.

[Shane]

The two of them and Ethan sound asleep.

[Emily Simpson]

And Ethan's in the bed asleep. This is what I don't understand. Zanna's like fighting it out with a killer in her bedroom, passed out or something. How do you not hear?

[Shane]

I don't know.

[Emily Simpson]

If I'm getting murdered at the end of our bed, you better get up.

[Shane]

Up. I will.

[Emily Simpson]

And do something.

[Shane]

I get up when you have to go to the bathroom, and then you say turn the AC on.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. So if I'm getting murdered at the end of our bed, can you please get up and fight the guy?

[Shane]

Well, the question is, why didn't he wake up? Assuming he was asleep? I. I don't know that sleep or did he wake up? He's still alive, right?

[Emily Simpson]

No.

[Shane]

Oh, and then he was killed too?

[Sponsor Announcer]

Yes.

[Shane]

Oh, he's number four.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes.

[Shane]

So how do we know he's asleep during this whole time?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I don't. I can't confirm that he's asleep.

[Shane]

Why'd you say he was asleep?

[Emily Simpson]

I didn't say he was asleep. This is what I'm confused about. I know he was in the bed. He's in the bed and Zanna's at the foot of the bed fighting it out with a murderer. She gets stabbed over 50 times. She has defensive wounds.

[Shane]

But you're assuming that Ethan did. Now, now I'm going to defend Ethan. You're assuming that he didn't do anything. You don't know that. How do you know he didn't wake up up and challenge this guy and Then he's in the scuffle too, because.

[Emily Simpson]

As far as I know, he doesn't have defensive wounds. And they found him asleep in the bed. I mean, they found him in the bed.

[Shane]

Okay, so how was, what, how was he killed?

[Emily Simpson]

He was stabbed.

[Shane]

Okay, so maybe as a possibility, he is killed first and then she wakes up and he fights with her and this guy's incapacitated.

[Emily Simpson]

If he was killing Ethan first, then Zanna, I would assume she's pretty feisty. She's got 50 defensive wounds.

[Shane]

That's why this guy, he was stabbed first. First he was stabbed and he was incapacitated. She jumps up and she's fighting and she's defensive.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, well, maybe that's a good theory. We'll deal with that.

[Shane]

Think about it. If they're, if they have a male and a female in a bed and you have a killer in the room, who's, and the killer wants to kill them both, who's he going to kill first? He's probably going to go after the male.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay. All right, that's a good theory. I like your theory. We'll go with that.

[Shane]

Okay. Thank you.

[Sponsor Announcer]

All right.

[Emily Simpson]

See what happens if you listen to me once in a while. I don't like to listen to you. Anyway. The other question I have is there's a dog in the house and I, I cannot understand.

[Shane]

Well, first of all, what kind of dog?

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know.

[Shane]

Mediums.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know what. His name's Murphy. Okay, and they find Murphy the next day in a room. So what? One, I don't know how Murphy just got into this room. Like shot in a room.

[Shane]

Maybe he's always put to sleep in a different room or something, I don't know.

[Emily Simpson]

But I have three dogs and I'm telling you, if there was a, like multiple murders taking place in the house, our dogs would be going nuts.

[Shane]

No, one would, Two would run away.

[Emily Simpson]

Two would run away. One would fight. Yes, but they would bark. They would. There would be noise. They would be.

[Shane]

I don't know. I just need to know what kind of dog Murphy is.

[Emily Simpson]

Why do you need to know what kind of dog?

[Shane]

Because it makes a difference.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I don't think he's a German shepherd or anything like that.

[Shane]

Exactly.

[Emily Simpson]

I think he's. He's a gold.

[Shane]

See, he's a gold small.

[Emily Simpson]

He's a golden doodle.

[Shane]

That's why Murphy dog.

[Emily Simpson]

That's why Murphy didn't jump in. See, the mystery solved.

[Shane]

Now I get napping.

[Emily Simpson]

Murphy was like, I, I, I, I gotta do my golden doodle thing. I'm just gonna hang out over here. See, I have a German shepherd husky mix named Togo. And I'm telling you, that dog would fight till the better bitter end for my life.

[Shane]

Unless the person has a vacuum or a trash can, he is scared, he will run away.

[Emily Simpson]

That is true. This is how you can kill me. Bring a vacuum, my dog will run that.

[Shane]

Basically, the house cleaners could kill you and he'd be. He wouldn't do anything.

[Emily Simpson]

That is true.

[Shane]

Yeah.

[Guest Announcer]

Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

Thank you for that. All right. Ethan Chapin is believed to have been killed in his sleep with a stab wound that severed the jugular vein in his neck. Well, I guess that's a clean, fast kill, so I don't know. So you think he went into the room, saw that there was a male, killed him first, and then he and Zanna fought it out?

[Shane]

Out? Yes. Thank you.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, whatever. All right. I'm still. I'm still. I still have to say, I am still confused by the fact that there are two other roommates in the house. It's three floors. He murders four people in the span of like 10 minutes tops.

[Shane]

Right.

[Emily Simpson]

That he murders four people. And we know that he and Zanna had a. Had a fight. She's got all these defensive wounds. There's a dog in the house. I mean, there had to have been screaming. Was there. I mean, was it. I don't understand that. Was it quiet?

[Shane]

How many survivors from this home?

[Emily Simpson]

There's two. But I don't understand why there wasn't more sound, more reaction, like, why if. If he's murdering them and there's defensive wounds and there's fighting. Well, why is there not more?

[Shane]

Again, there are college students. It was. They're out late and they go to a food truck and things like that. Isn't it possible that they were drunk and passed out or just. You know, I don't mean to say I'm not trying to judge them, but I'm just saying, like, you know, that's possible. I know, but they're partied out.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, but I don't feel like I'd ever been so incapacitated that if I heard like a major fight going on, that I. I agree.

[Shane]

It's questionable.

[Emily Simpson]

I mean, I don't think they're involved in any way. I just don't understand how.

[Shane]

Well, I'm sure that they also question that themselves. And I'm sure they don't feel good about the fact that they slept through it all.

[Emily Simpson]

No, they have survivor guilt and all this Trauma now, I mean, these. I feel sorry for what they went through. So. Bethany Funk, one of the two surviving roommates, told police she was awoken by what sounded like a firecracker and noticed a flashing light through the bottom of her door. According to a police report, she and Dylan. These are the two surviving roommates, spoke by phone. Dylan later said the male in black was walking out the back door and they had made eye contact with each other and that he was white with a big nose and holding a small vacuum type object. I read it was a container. Like a container. And then some people speculated that he took the doordash food. Like, did he get a container from the kitchen and like take the food with him?

[Shane]

I don't know.

[Emily Simpson]

I. I don't know either. But she said it looked like he was holding like a container when he left. When he. That the one girl that saw him leaving.

[Shane]

That's odd.

[Emily Simpson]

And the firecracker?

[Shane]

Well, if assuming that she saw it correctly and it wasn't like she was just traumatized and, you know, a lot of images in her head that, that. You think that's a gun?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, you would think, but there's no shells and there's no bullets and nobody has any bullet wounds.

[Shane]

And then, and then that you would beg the question of why didn't anyone wake up. If there was gunshots or firecrackers, there's at least firecrackers.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, that's what they said. They said. She said she saw like a light and something that sounded like a firecracker. Again, they didn't call the police, by the way. They saw an intruder leaving with a to go container and they saw or.

[Shane]

Heard something that looked like a firecracker that. I mean, it's three floors. There's a number of college kids. There's probably a lot of people that come and go. So it was probably enough for them to initially think, oh, it's just a visitor or friend or whatever for the third floor or whatever. And then maybe they got a little spooked and scared and then the guy walks out. So, I mean, I can imagine something like that happening.

[Emily Simpson]

I think also, see, you just, you're.

[Shane]

Just on this impression when the murder takes place. Everyone's supposed to just jump up, up and react and attack the murder or run away and call police in two seconds and the dog's supposed to attack. Regardless of the.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know, it just seems like that's what would happen with four people being murdered in the middle of the night.

[Shane]

But.

[Emily Simpson]

So Dylan went Down to Bethany's room. And the two tried calling their roommates, but no one picked up. They didn't call the police immediately because they were drunk and groggy and from the night before and thought the situation might just be a misunderstanding. I do understand that these girls are young and that they're in college and that they've been drinking. And I also know that their house was considered like a party house.

[Shane]

See.

[Emily Simpson]

And so I think when she saw someone leaving, instead of thinking that's an intruder that just killed my roommates, it's easier to think that's just someone that was here partying and drank and is now leaving out a side door. So, I mean, she said she even thought that it was possibly a prank by one of Ethan's fraternity brothers. So later on, Bethany, I will say.

[Shane]

That when I was in college, yeah, we lived in a house and the upstairs was not connected to downstairs. There was a stairway that was outside, right. That went up and there was about six to seven guys upstairs and six to seven guys downstairs. And both doors upstairs and downstairs, we never locked, ever. We didn't even have a key to it.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I don't think they locked this door either.

[Shane]

Came in and out all the time.

[Emily Simpson]

And I think this is what this house was like. There was like a sliding glass door. I think it was always unlocked. I think it was considered the party house. And I think people were always coming.

[Shane]

In, going, this guy stood out there and maybe saw them people going in and out and realized, it's unlocked, I can go in and out.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, probably because he had been stalking their house and he made several drive bys. So later on, Bethany calls her parents at 7:30am about a toothache before going back to sleep. When she woke up again around 11, she noticed the house was still unusually quiet. She also noted that Zanna's Snapchat location wasn't on when it should have been. So then Dylan and Bethany call and ask two friends to come over because they were scared. When one friend went upstairs and saw something concerning, they urged Bethany and Dylan to leave the house and call for help. According to the report, Bethany saw Xana's body through a cracked bedroom door wearing just a sweatshirt and her underwear. And then that is when they dialed 91 1. And this is at noon, so.

[Shane]

Noon. Yeah, yeah, that's when they pretty much woke up.

[Emily Simpson]

And, well, that's when they finally were. I mean, they saw a body and a friend came over.

[Shane]

Do you know what time they woke up? And like how much time passed with them in the morning without.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. It said at 7:30am she was calling her parents saying she had a toothache. But then she went back to sleep.

[Shane]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

And then at 11 she wakes up.

[Shane]

And see they slept in. So they were passed out. They were all crashed from partying or whatever it was or just staying up late, you know.

[Emily Simpson]

Also, they did, you know, they released those photos. I don't know if you saw it, but there was a photo where you could see blood on the outside of the house. It was dripping through.

[Shane]

From where? Like a windowsill or something.

[Emily Simpson]

It's not from a window. It was from just like when you see a house, the fat. You can see the foundation.

[Shane]

Oh. Like downstairs from the.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't.

[Shane]

It was from Ethan because Ethan's on the second floor.

[Emily Simpson]

It had dripped down and it was coming out. You could see it from the siding coming down onto the foundation. And they released those photos, but no one knew who it was from. And then it was later, once these new, all this new evidence has been released. It was from, from Ethan.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Sandals and Beaches resorts offer their best all inclusive value in the Caribbean through their all in one pricing. Located across the Caribbean's most stunning islands, Sandals Adults Only resorts offers immersive experiences, gourmet dining, plus both land and water activities including paddy certified scuba diving, golf and pickleball. Families love beaches resorts where kids enjoy water parks and parents unwind at the Red Lane SPA. And coming March 2026, beaches Turks and Caicos is set to unveil their latest village, Treasure Beach.

There's no better place to experience the Caribbean than at resorts founded by a family from the Caribbean. Visit sandals.com or beaches.com for the best, all inclusive resorts and offers.

If there's anything as perfectly dramatic and totally engrossing as reality tv, it might be the procedural shows on primetime TV right now.

Specifically all of the shows from the One Chicago Universe.

If you're a fan of one of.

Their shows, then there's a new podcast you'll want to check out called the One Chicago Podcast from USG Audio and Wolf Entertainment.

When it comes to tv, there's something so satisfying about knowing how the sausage gets made. From cheeky production choices to plot lines and the reactions of the fan base, the One Chicago Podcast is all that and more.

It's the official behind the scenes look at the iconic shows from the One Chicago Universe, Chicago pd, Chicago Med, and of course, Chicago Fire.

Each episode joins host and former Chicago cop turned Chicago PD producer Brian Lucci, and he's joined by the actors producers and writers behind the epic One Chicago Universe.

To listen to the One Chicago Podcast, search for One Chicago Podcast on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. That's One Chicago Podcast.

If you're looking for wine that's not just delicious, but also total crowd pleaser, let me introduce you to Josh Sellars. This California wine brand has over a dozen award winning wines. From Cris Sauvignon Blancs to velvety Merlots. You can find the perfect wine for every mood and every occasion. If you're hosting a holiday get together, grab a bottle of their velvety Cabernet Sauvignon. It pairs perfectly with those rich, decadent dishes. Your hosting game will be instantly elevated. Or maybe you're just kicking back with friends after a long week of gift hunting and holiday chaos. That's an ideal Josh Cellars Pinot Grigio moment. Every bottle of Josh Celler's is made for sharing with the people who matter most. The wine is crafted to exacting standards, so every pour is beautifully balanced, smooth and absolutely delicious. With so many amazing wines to choose from, there's always a reason to enjoy some Josh Cellars. This season. Josh Cellars is a proud sponsor of two teas in a pod. Visit www.joshsellers.com teapot t e a P O D and join the wine club to get 20% off.

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[Emily Simpson]

So Kaylee, this is why they thought Kaylee was the intended victim because she thought she was being followed. In the weeks leading up to her death, Kaylee reported reportedly shared several unsettling experiences with her roommates. This is according to these new police documents that have been released. One roommate recalled that Kaylee mentioned that she felt that someone had been following her for two or three weeks prior to the attack. In one instance, she reportedly saw a shadow while she was outside with her dog. Around the same time, she spotted an unknown man above their off campus house staring at her when she took the dog outside. Investigators noted these accounts in their reports, though they did not link. Link the suspect, Brian to any of these earlier incidents. I don't know. I mean, he, we know that he was stalking the house.

[Shane]

So if a child calls you and says, I think someone's been following me, I mean, how would we respond?

[Emily Simpson]

You know, I don't know. I was just thinking the same thing because we're parents and Shelby's obviously Shane's oldest daughter is in. Was in college and Chanel's in college, his second oldest daughter. And if one of them called you and said that they thought they were being followed and they saw a man, what would you do?

[Shane]

Do? Well, I would ask questions to learn, but I think I would take action. And depending on what it was, you know, I would want them to not be alone. I would probably, you know, if. Are they following you to your apartment? Do we need to like relocate you or put you somewhere temporarily? I mean, I wouldn't just think, oh, well, let's hope it stops.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. But I guess my question, I know.

[Shane]

That Shelby and Chanel, they call me when they're walking late at night or something. They just don't want to be alone. So that way they're at least on the phone. I mean, you got to take measures. You can't just downplay something as you can't just talk it off as some weird guy that's following you.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane]

Did they notify the parents of being.

[Emily Simpson]

No, I think that's the issue was she never shared it with her parents. She just shared it with the roommates.

[Shane]

We were just talking about what we would do. I would take action. I don't know what that would be because it would depend. Are they just following around Walmart and you've never seen them before or after that, or are they around your apartment? You know, are they your age? Are you alone? And then based on that, I have to figure something out.

[Emily Simpson]

Also, according to all these new documents and evidence that has been released, a redacted witness, identified as a friend and fellow WSU student, told police that he saw noticeable injuries on Brian Coburger in October and November of 2022. The friend recalled seeing a scratch on Coburger's face that resembled fingernail marks as well as knuckle injuries on more than one occasion. When questioned about the marks, Coburger allegedly said that they were from a car. Car accident. Then another person comes forward and apparently he had a tender match that had a chilling conversation with him. According to the police reports, a woman who had matched with Brian Coburger on Tinder. When was this?

[Shane]

When was this connection?

[Emily Simpson]

This is in late 2022. Came forward with a tip in March of 2024 and was later interviewed by investigators. She said that their conversations included topics like criminology, horror films, and the murder of one of her friends. At one point, Coburger allegedly. No wonder they. They matched on Tinder. She had a friend that was human blood.

[Shane]

And you like human blood?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. You have a friend that was murdered. That's interesting, because I'd like to murder people. At one point, Coburger allegedly asked her her opinion on the worst way to die. When she responded by knife, he reportedly followed up with a question referencing a K bar type of combat knife. Which we do know that the weapon.

[Shane]

That was supposedly used. Right?

[Sponsor Announcer]

Right.

[Emily Simpson]

Prosecutors followed by some firecrackers. And some firecrackers apparently. Right. Prosecutors have said Coburger purchased a K bar knife and sheath online prior to the murders. We knew this and we talked about this in the prior podcast that we did. And that was I. If you haven't listened to it and you don't know a lot of details of the case, that was how they eventually caught Brian Coburger was because the knife sheath was actually left behind in Maddie and Kaylee's bed. And they found the DNA on the knife sheath. The knife, the actual weapon that was used has never been, but they did find the sheath. It had a little DNA on it. And the DNA testing is so amazing.

[Shane]

Where was the sheath found?

[Emily Simpson]

It was found in Kaylee and Maddie's bed.

[Shane]

He left it behind.

[Sponsor Announcer]

Yeah.

[Shane]

So it was logical and plausible is he went to the third floor first to commit his first murders.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

He pulls the knife out of the sheath, goes through the murder transaction. The sheath, sorry, on the bed.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

Goes downstairs, does some more murdering.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

And then leaves. And now it's upstairs.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

So it was first removed.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. The woman told police that she eventually cut off all communication with Coburger because his questions were Unsettling to her. Investigators later attempted to retrieve tender records related to her tip, but reported no matches. Based on the information available, they noted they would seek a warrant if more identifying details surfaced. Here's the thing. Is this someone who's just coming forward and just putting themselves into a murder situation because they. They're.

[Shane]

She likes criminology.

[Emily Simpson]

There's weird people out there, right, that like, yeah, but if they can look.

[Shane]

At the tent, they probably see a chat history or something like that.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, they said they couldn't find. They couldn't investigate.

[Shane]

You know, at the end of the day, it doesn't change a whole lot. I guess what they were looking for is see if there's any other potential murder victims. Right. Because if they found him connected with other Tinder people and those were murder or something, they could connect him. I'm sure that's what they were looking for.

[Emily Simpson]

So Coburger's sole conversation with authorities was revealed. This is after he's been arrested. Though Brian Coburger declined to answer most questions following his arrest, he did briefly speak with investigators during an initial interview in late 2022 at his family's Pennsylvania home. This is according to the police records. At the start of the conversation, he expressed concern for his parents and a dog in the wake of the SWAT race. He then made small talk mentioning he was a doctoral student at Washington State University and his goal of becoming a professor and the difficulty of getting into a PhD program. And I read a little bit about the dog. Like, people weren't sure which dog he was referencing. They didn't know if he was referencing Murphy, the dog that was in the house, and that maybe he possibly put the dog in the room and shut the door. So the dog was okay? I don't. I don't know, but that's a theory that's possible. There's a lot of unanswered questions that still remain. Law enforcement records do not clarify whether investigators ever uncovered a motive behind the murders or identified a definitive connection between Coburger and the victims. During his sentencing, Judge Steven Hipler described Coburger as a faceless coward and noted that while many seek to understand his reasons, doing so risk giving him undue influence. The judge emphasized that the crimes defied any sense of rational explanation, adding that Coburger's moment in the spotlight should now be over. At a press conference held Wednesday, officials confirmed that they had not recovered the weapon or clothing believed to have been used in the attack. Also, during his sentencing, the victims were allowed to make victim impact Statements. And I don't know if. If anyone has watched Olivia's impact statement. She's the sister of Kaylee. Her statement to him was phenomenal. I watched the whole thing. If you have the opportunity to find it, it went viral. And watch.

[Shane]

What was her name?

[Emily Simpson]

Her name's Olivia.

[Shane]

Olivia. And she's the older.

[Emily Simpson]

She's the older sister of Kaylee.

[Shane]

Okay, so Kaylee's sister Olivia gave a.

[Emily Simpson]

Victim'S impact, but she made the statement, it was really on behalf of Kaylee and Maddie because they were best friends and they were the ones that were in the bed together. They'd been best friends their whole life, since they were little kids. So she knew one was her sister, but she also felt like. Like Maddie was a little sister, too. This is just some of what she said. This is just a little. Some excerpts because we. Obviously you're not going to read the whole statement, but Olivia Gonsalves, which is Kaylee's older sister, she addressed Coburger directly and she said, sit up straight when I talk to you on why Kaylee would have retaliated. She said, if you had not attacked them in their sleep, Kaylee would have kicked her ass. She also called him a delusional, pathetic, hypochondriac loser, insisting, you didn't win, you aren't special or deep. No one is scared of you. Today she spoke on Maddie and Kaylee's personalities, that they would have treated Coburger with kindness if he had ever approached them in their everyday lives. I also watched an interview with her after the fact. I think it was on Good Morning America or something like that. And it was really interesting to me. She said that she for. Because she knew she was going to give this victim impact statement. And she said that she stalked him. She stalked the stalker. She said she wanted to learn absolutely everything she possibly could about him. So that when she gave this victim impact statement, it wasn't. She didn't say she wanted to do it for Maddie and Kaylee. She wanted to do it on their behalf. And so she really focused on him and making him small and making him inadequate and just taking him down. And she does. I don't know how she did it. I have a sister. If I had to look at my sister's killer, I don't think I could have gotten through it. But she said if it was, I think maybe like 15 minutes, but she memorized the whole thing so that she could look him in the eyes the entire time.

[Shane]

She wanted to make it personal to him. It was Personal to him, to really jab at him. Right.

[Emily Simpson]

And I really liked where she was coming from. She didn't just stand up there and say, Maddie and Kaylee were rays of sunshine and they were bright, you know, and they are. But she took a completely different approach where it wasn't about them, it was just him. And she found out every piece of information she could about him so that she could just take him down. And it was compelling. It was amazing. It was. She memorized it so she could look him in the eye the whole time. And it was really good. If, if you haven't watched the whole thing, I would suggest that you find it. It's on Tick tock, it's on YouTube. It's everywhere.

[Shane]

So it's Olivia's impact statement.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes. Olivia's sister. Yeah. And she also says on Good Morning America that she thoroughly thought that, like, she was going to get arrested. I don't know why she thought she was going to get arrested. I don't know if it's because she felt like maybe it was too harsh, that she'd be in contempt, but she even said that while she was.

[Shane]

I've seen some pretty good. The only ones that they do get detained is when they, like, jump over the wall and, you know, go attack, Right? Yeah. Even then sometimes judges, like, give them a warning, you know, like, like, you know, we, we can't be like that.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. She also said, which I thought was interesting, that she said when she was sitting in court before she gave her victim impact statement, that she started to regret or not. I don't know if the right word is regret, but she started to change her impact statement because his mother and sister were in court. And I think maybe she, she felt like maybe it was too harsh or, I mean, I think maybe, I think.

[Shane]

Maybe she still murdered them.

[Emily Simpson]

No, I think maybe it was. The thinking was, of course she has.

[Shane]

A mother and, you know, I know.

[Emily Simpson]

But I don't think she thought they would be in court.

[Shane]

And I think I would say no.

[Emily Simpson]

Less badly for them. Maybe, I mean, maybe she had some compassion for them. But then ultimately she just, she decided to just go forward with it as is. She said she was trying to edit it it. And then she, I, I think she said her dad went. Did her dad go first? But anyway, when Kaylee's dad gave his victim impact statement, he grabbed the podium and he pulled it up so that he was like, right in front of Brian Coburger. And she said when she saw her dad do that, that that gave her the Confidence to just go up there and say exactly what she was gonna say. All right, so a lot of other family members gave victim impact statements. They were really more about the, the children and their personalities. I think Olivia's was just the most compelling because of the way she went about doing it. So where, so where will Coburger go now? Brian Coburger was sentenced to four consecutive life terms without parole at the Idaho Department of Correction. It's located in Kuna, Idaho, about 20 miles from Boise. And it's an Idaho maximum security institution. And it houses the state's most disruptive male residents. Residents. And has a double perimeter fence reinforced with razor wire and an electronic detection system.

[Shane]

Is he gonna be in like solitary confinement? Do we know?

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know about that, but I do know that the facility was named one of the 15 worst prisons in America by Security Journal Americas in 2024, joining other notorious lockups like Antika Correctional Facility in New York, San Quentin in California and ADX Florence, also known as the Alcatraz of the Rock, are there. That means the worst of the worst. Here's the thing. I, I mean, I don't know what people feel like in prison about a man murdering four young, you know, college students. So we'll see how long, how, how.

[Shane]

Well he survives there.

[Emily Simpson]

Right, Because Jeffrey Dahmer was killed in prison. There's there, you know, child molesters.

[Shane]

Even inmates have a hierarchy.

[Emily Simpson]

They do, do. They do. So we'll see. I don't know. Brian Coburger. We'll see what happens in prison. But anyway, thank you guys so much for listening to Legally Brunette. We really appreciate it and thank you so much for your feedback. I love that you guys DM me all the time. You give me cases that you would like us to look in and you also just give feedback and sometimes if we're incorrect, I appreciate that you give us a heads up because we always try to be as accurate as possible, even with these older cases and conflicting evidence. We try to do a good job job of, you know, giving you as much factual information along with our opinions at the same time. So thank you so much for listening.

[Shane]

Thank you.

[Sponsor Announcer]

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There's no better place to experience the Caribbean than at resorts founded by a family from the Caribbean. Visit sandals.com or beaches.com for the best all inclusive resorts and offers. If you're looking for a wine that's not just delicious but also a total crowd pleaser, let me introduce you to Josh Sellars. This California wine brand has over a dozen award winning wines. From crisp Sauvignon Blancs to velvety Merlots. Josh Sellars has the perfect wine for every occasion, serving up a juicy steak at your next barbecue. Their Cabernet Sauvignon is the perfect pairing. Unwinding with friends after a long week. You can't go wrong with their Pinot Grigio. With so many delicious wines to choose from, Josh Cellars has something for everyone. Josh Cellars is a proud sponsor of two teas in a pod. Visit www.joshselars.com teapod t e a P O D and join the wine club to get 20% off off. Please drink responsibly.

Did you know Microsoft has officially ended Support for Windows 10? Upgrade to Windows 11 with an LG Gram laptop, voted PCMag's reader's choice top laptop brand for 2025. Thin and ultra lightweight, the LG Gram keeps you productive Anywhere and Windows 11 gives you access to free security updates and ongoing feature upgrades. Visit LGUSA.com online My heart for great seasonal savings on LG Gram laptops with Windows 11. PCMag reader's choice used with permission. All rights reserved.

A GLP1 helped you lose weight, but now you're noticing unwanted facial changes. The weight came off, but facial volume loss and dull sagging skin are making you look older. That's where the next phase of your weight loss journey comes in. There's before weight loss loss, after weight loss, and the after After. Help restore and refresh your facial skin and reclaim your natural looking youthful glow. To learn more, visit face afterweightloss.com that's face after weightloss.com this is Bowen Yang.

[Guest Announcer]

From Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. And I'm Matt Rogers from the very same podcast. And guess what? It's the holiday season and you know what that means. Holiday parties. Beau holiday parties. They're the best, but there's always the stress of what to wear, what to bring. Easy solution? Okay, bring a bottle of Casamigos. Casamigos. Wow. That is the move you can make Casamigos Mules or Casamigos Espresso Martinis or Casamigos Cram. And don't forget about Casamigos Margaritas. A Casamigos margarita is the perfect cocktail all year round.

[Shane]

Casamigos is just.

[Guest Announcer]

Just the perfect gift that keeps on giving. And as the saying goes, anything goes with my Casamigos. On second thought, a holiday party might be in order. That's a great idea. Please drink responsibly. Imported by Casamigos Spirits Company, White Plains, New York. Casamigos Tequila 40% alcohol by volume.

[Emily Simpson]

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.