Legally Brunette: Gabby Petito

Summary

Podcast Summary: Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge

Episode Title: Legally Brunette: Gabby Petito
Release Date: March 5, 2025
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts

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1. Introduction

In this episode of Two Ts In A Pod, hosts Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge delve deep into high-profile legal cases, offering their unique perspectives and analyses. The episode primarily focuses on the tragic Gabby Petito case, but also touches upon other significant legal matters making headlines.

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2. Current Legal Updates

a. The Menendez Resentencing Hearing

At [01:06], Emily Simpson updates listeners on the ongoing Menendez case. The resentencing hearing for the Menendez brothers is scheduled for March 20th and 21st. However, Emily speculates, "My prediction is that is going to get rescheduled again because Gavin Newsom announced he's going to use his power of commuting their sentences." This intervention by the Governor adds a new layer of complexity to the case, raising questions about judicial independence and political influence.

b. Karen Huger's DUI Sentencing

The discussion shifts to Karen Huger's legal troubles. At [04:14], Emily shares that Huger has been sentenced to two years in jail, one suspended, for her fourth DUI offense. Tamra adds her frustration, stating, "She is a menace to society." The hosts debate the adequacy of the sentencing, considering Huger's repeated offenses and the potential risks she poses on the road.

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3. The Mysterious Death of Gene Hackman and His Wife

One of the more personal and speculative segments revolves around the untimely deaths of actor Gene Hackman and his wife. At [06:28], Emily recounts how a family discussion about watching The Poseidon Adventure coincided eerily with news of Hackman's death, prompting reflections on fate and coincidence.

a. Details of the Incident

At [08:12], Emily details the circumstances surrounding their deaths. Gene Hackman's pacemaker recorded his last activity on February 17th, but their bodies were discovered on February 26th, raising suspicions due to the unexplained gap. Tamra highlights inconsistencies, particularly the presence of pills and the condition of the home, suggesting possible foul play.

b. Speculations and Theories

Emily theorizes, "She was using her phone to reach out for help, but something went terribly wrong." The hosts discuss the suspicious behavior of Hackman's wife and the condition in which their bodies were found, contemplating the possibility of a coordinated act or foul play masked as accidental deaths.

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4. The Gabby Petito Case: A Comprehensive Analysis

The centerpiece of the episode is an in-depth exploration of the Gabby Petito case, examining the timeline, police handling, and subsequent legal repercussions.

a. Overview and Timeline

Emily provides a chronological breakdown of the events:

• July 2, 2021: Gabby Petito and her fiancé, Brian Laundrie, embark on a cross-country road trip in their camper van, aimed at documenting their journey for Gabby's aspiring YouTube channel. “Gabby wanted to be a vlogger and make a YouTube channel,” Emily explains at [16:16].

• August 12, 2021: The couple is pulled over in Moab, Utah. Gabby exhibits signs of distress and claims to suffer from OCD and anxiety. At [20:36], Tamra notes, “She has a mark on her forehead, a mark on her cheek...” indicating possible abuse.

• August 19, 2021: They post their only YouTube video, which initially garners 500 views but later skyrockets to over 10 million views.

• August 26, 2021: Gabby shares her final Instagram post, displaying a happy demeanor.

• August 27, 2021: The assumed date of Gabby's murder, though her body is not found until September 19th.

• September 1, 2021: Brian Laundrie returns to his parents' home in Florida alone, sparking suspicions.

• September 17, 2021: Brian's family reports him missing.

• October 20, 2021: Brian Laundrie's remains are discovered.

• November 23, 2021: Authorities confirm Brian's death by suicide.

b. Police Handling and Legal Critique

At [16:10], Emily questions the police response during the August 12th stop, advocating that “They should have arrested someone, whether it was Gabby or Brian.” The hosts critique the decision not to detain Brian Laundrie, suggesting it may have been a missed opportunity to prevent the tragedy. Tamra shares her skepticism, “They should have put a tracker on his car,” emphasizing the need for proactive measures in domestic violence cases.

c. The Aftermath and Legal Proceedings

The episode discusses the legal battles following the case:

• Wrongful Death Lawsuits: Gabby Petito's family filed lawsuits against the Moab Police Department and Brian Laundrie’s family. While the lawsuit against Moab PD was dismissed due to police immunity, it is being appealed and may reach the Utah Supreme Court.

• Gabby Petito Act: Advocated by Gabby's father, Joseph Petito, this 2024 Florida bill mandates 12 questions that law enforcement must ask potential domestic violence victims. Emily reflects, “Based upon what happened to Gabby, legislatures are saying, hey, there needs to be a better system in place so that we can protect people better.”

d. Notable Quotes

• Emily Simpson at [24:45]: "They should have arrested because the car is in her name. It's like, my daughter's missing for two weeks. She was with that guy, he doesn't know where she is..."

• Tamra Judge at [30:40]: "Of course, if anyone knew, they would have stopped."

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5. Personal Reflections and Theoretical Scenarios

Throughout the episode, both hosts share personal anecdotes and hypothetical scenarios to underscore their points. For instance, Emily discusses her own strained relationship with her father, paralleling it with Gene Hackman's situation, while Tamra expresses frustration over perceived loopholes in the justice system.

At [55:03], Emily reflects on Brian Laundrie's notebook excerpts, emphasizing the profound grief and confusion surrounding the case. Tamra responds vehemently, stating, “He's gonna rot in hell,” showcasing the emotional weight the case carries.

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6. Conclusion and Legislative Impacts

The episode concludes by highlighting potential legislative changes aimed at preventing future tragedies similar to Gabby Petito's case. The Gabby Petito Act stands as a testament to the family's fight for justice and systemic improvement.

Emily summarizes, “At least the point is, is that based upon what happened to Gabby, legislatures are saying, hey, there needs to be a better system in place so that we can protect people better.” The hosts express cautious optimism about the changes, acknowledging that while the legal system has its flaws, proactive measures can lead to better protection for individuals in vulnerable situations.

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Notable Quotes Throughout the Episode

• [04:14] Tamra Judge: "She is a menace to society."

• [06:28] Emily Simpson: "Our son wanted to watch. He had watched this before with Shane, but he wanted to watch the Poseidon Adventure."

• [16:10] Emily Simpson: "Guys, I'm excited. We're going to talk about Gabby Petito today."

• [23:25] Captain Brandon Radcliffe: "They both believed at the time they were making the right decision based on the totality of the circumstances that were presented."

• [30:40] Tamra Judge: "Of course, if anyone knew, they would have stopped."

• [57:12] Emily Simpson: "I think it had to do with jealousy. I think he probably saw her phone, saw that she had texted the ex boyfriend..."

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Final Thoughts

Two Ts In A Pod provides a comprehensive and emotionally charged examination of the Gabby Petito case, intertwining legal analysis with personal reflections. Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge effectively highlight the complexities of the case, the shortcomings in law enforcement responses, and the enduring quest for justice by the affected families. This episode serves as both an informative recounting and a poignant commentary on the intersection of personal tragedy and the legal system.

Transcript

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[Unknown]

Foreign.

[Emily Simpson]

Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I'll be your host Emily Simpson with my co host Shane Simpson. And today we just want to do first some quick updates. Let's just talk about Menendez quickly because some things have been happening there. First of all, their resentencing hearing is still scheduled for March 20th and 21st. But my prediction is that is going to get re scheduled again because on Gavin Newsom's new podcast he announced that he's going to use his power of commuting their sentence. Possibly, maybe, I don't know, but he's taking a look into it.

[Unknown]

Why now? You know, he's just oh, this is popular. I can do this on my podcast.

[Emily Simpson]

So, so basically he's ordering the parole board to do to investigate whether the brothers would pose an unreasonable risk to the public if they were released from prison. So what they're going to do is they'll do this investigation, they'll come up with a report and they're going to issue the report to noon, but also to the judge and the court and the DA Hawman. But I would assume that that report is not going to come out until after March 20th. So my guess would be that these hearings are not going to go Forward on the 20th. They're going to get re rescheduled until after this report comes out. But that's a good question because my first thought when I saw that Gavin Newsom was now getting involved in this case where before he said he was kind of going to let the D A and the court system and the judge handle it. I thought it looks like a pr.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah, it totally is. This is popular. I'll talk about it.

[Emily Simpson]

I mean, let's be honest. His image wasn't looking great after the fires. A lot of people were calling for his resignation and saying he didn't handle that well. Now he has a new podcast. His first episode of his podcast, he talks about how he's going to possibly get involved in the Menendez case. Also, I know the D A Hawkman came forward and said that he. What he did was he made an informal response to their habeas petition. Now, the habeas petition is a completely different avenue. It has nothing to do with the resentencing. And he said that basically he didn't think that they should get a new trial. That would be the habeas route, which I agree. But he was saying it was, you know, he talks about how they're telling a continuum of lies during their original trials and that he doesn't believe that this new evidence that came forward anyway. So basically, it looks like the habeas route is not one that's really a. An avenue that's going to work for them. We're really going to have to focus.

[Unknown]

On the reasonable as the other ones.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. The resentencing or on Gavin Newsom. So we'll see what happens there. All right, let's get into. Normally, I don't like to do housewife stuff because I feel like we. There's so much going on with other legal situations. But let's talk about Karen Huger just for a little bit. So 11 months after Karen got drunk and crashed her Maserati into a street sign, the Montgomery County Circuit court Judge Terence McGann sentenced Karen Huger to two years in jail, one suspended. So she is going to have to spend a year in prison. I don't know. Do you think? I. I think she'll probably do six months maybe. Or do you think.

[Unknown]

I don't know how it works where she is. But this is not her first dui, correct?

[Emily Simpson]

No, it's.

[Unknown]

I think it's important to know the history, to know if the sentencing is back valid or not.

[Emily Simpson]

It is my understanding that this is her fourth. Now, I believe that there's been long periods of time, maybe between the first, second and third.

[Unknown]

It doesn't matter. But to me it doesn't matter.

[Emily Simpson]

No, I know. But also, she was fined $2900 to go along with her. Her sentence.

[Unknown]

If you don't learn your lesson because of a two year sentence. Maybe this 2900 fine will teach you something. Probably costs tens of thousands of dollars of court time and everything. And all of a sudden they're like, oh, pay $2,000.

[Emily Simpson]

I mean, the street sign she hit, probably $2,900. So Karen was found guilty of DUI, negligent driving, failure to control speed to avoid a collision, and failure to notify her change of address. She won't be allowed to drive for a year after she's released. And if she violates probation, Huger will be sent back to jail to serve the year of the suspended time. This is Karen Huger's fourth dui.

[Unknown]

You should take people's license away. Sorry. I mean, once, maybe after that it's like, take the license away. You're no good. You're a menace to society.

[Emily Simpson]

You're a menace.

[Unknown]

Sorry. You are. She is. She's gonna kill someone.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, she's.

[Unknown]

I mean, why? Why is now she gonna be like, oh, I should start being responsible?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, she's lucky she didn't kill someone. After four DUIs, you got really lucky that someone was not injured or killed.

[Unknown]

It's ridiculous. I remember our. My daughter, her fifth grade teacher, Mr. Clark, and when she got him, she was thrilled. Killed by a drunk driver mid school year.

[Emily Simpson]

I remember that.

[Unknown]

And it was not the drunk driver's first killing as a result of drunk driving.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, you mean not only first offense, but they had. That someone else had.

[Unknown]

Yes, yes. Wow. Not okay.

[Emily Simpson]

Anyway, all right, let's move on. This is just an interesting story that's popped up in the media. I'm sure everyone's been thinking about it and obsessing over it, but it is the death of Jean Hackman. And I will tell you, I find this really interesting. Luke. My son. Our son. I forgot. Our son.

[Unknown]

I just saw name Luke, too.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, you do?

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Emily Simpson]

Our son wanted to watch. He had watched this before with Shane, but he wanted to watch the Poseidon Adventure.

[Unknown]

Poseidon Adventure?

[Emily Simpson]

The Poseidon.

[Unknown]

An excellent movie, but not like the recent one of my top 10.

[Emily Simpson]

He wanted to watch the 1972 version.

[Unknown]

The only good one. The one. The one with Kurt Russell. No. Okay, so.

[Emily Simpson]

So Luke and I watched this the day before. And while we were watching it, I remember thinking to myself, is Gene Hackerman?

[Unknown]

So you asked me, and I told you. I said, well, he's 94. Last year a photo popped up of him being 94. He did not look healthy at all. I said, I don't know if he's gonna make it to 95. And then. I didn't know you could put a curse on people.

[Emily Simpson]

Apparently you're a witch, which. Thank you for telling our children that, because I brought up Gene Hackman 2 days I was inquiring about his health and whether he was still alive. And then the story broke 48 hours later that Gene Hackman and his wife and a dog were found dead.

[Unknown]

I love Gene Hackman.

[Emily Simpson]

You do?

[Unknown]

Yeah, I do. I think he's a great actor. That's partly why Poseidon Venture is really good. I know people aren't here for a movie review, but Design Adventure has a great story.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay. Gene Hackman and his wife, along with their dog were found dead this weekend. Circumstances officials have called suspicious enough to warrant a thorough investigation. So Hackman and his wife's bodies were discovered by maintenance workers at their home just before 2pm and that was last Wednesday, February 26th. Now, I will tell you, I was looking into it again this morning to see if there was new information in this case. And I read that according to his pacemaker, the last known activity on his pacemaker was February 17th.

[Unknown]

Oh, wow.

[Emily Simpson]

So they are assuming just based on.

[Unknown]

What date was he found?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, he was found dead February 26th.

[Unknown]

So that would put him at nine days.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. The last activity that was recorded on his pacemaker was February 17th. So they're assuming that that was most likely.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

When they died. So A caller told 911 that they could see two unconscious people through a window but could not enter the home. According to the call, the cause of death of. Of hackman, who was 95 and his wife Betsy was 63, are not known at this time. But I did read that they have ruled out carbon monoxide or any type of natural gas.

[Unknown]

Ruled out.

[Emily Simpson]

That's what I read.

[Unknown]

Autopsy?

[Emily Simpson]

I believe so, because the daughters. So Jean Hackman has daughters had said in an interview that maybe it was carbon monoxide. And then I read.

[Unknown]

Yeah, but they were.

[Emily Simpson]

That had been ruled out.

[Unknown]

But they said that as a. Just a. A reasonable assumption based on them being found dead on the floor.

[Emily Simpson]

And I guess how that would.

[Unknown]

Based on an investigation.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. So the. The couple's bodies were found in separate rooms and their secluded home. This is in Santa Fe. So Gene Hackman was found in a muscle.

[Unknown]

If we went. If we died in our sleep.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, that's how we're going.

[Unknown]

Like Shane was on the couch with the TV on and Emily had the phone on her face. Laying in bed with a bag some gummy worms.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And very suspicious.

[Emily Simpson]

And the dogs were everywhere. So they were found in separate rooms. Gene Hackman was found in a mud room. And they are assuming that he possibly fell because he had his cane and, like, some sunglasses lying next to him. So it looks like maybe he took a fall and those were next to him. But what is strange is his wife was found in a bathroom with scattered pills. Now, also, there were three dogs in the residence, and one dog was found in a close closet inside a crate. I read that a lot of reports said a dog was found dead.

[Unknown]

Hold on. There's three dogs.

[Emily Simpson]

There's three dogs.

[Unknown]

One was found dead inside a crate. So likely lacking food and water.

[Emily Simpson]

That would be my thought.

[Unknown]

Seven days, based on what we're reading.

[Emily Simpson]

And then there were two other dogs found in the residence that were alive.

[Unknown]

And not in a crate or a closet.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. But I did read somewhere that one was in the bathroom. But I don't know if he was locked in a bathroom or they just found him wandering and he ended up.

[Unknown]

It would make more sense now that one's in a crate, passed away because unfortunately, neglected with food and water. And the others maybe were able to kind of fend for themselves. And, you know.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. They. Maybe they dug through the trash or ate something in a.

[Unknown]

Right. Or maybe there's plenty of dog food out, you know.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. So Betsy, this is his wife. Her body showed obvious signs of death. Body decomposition, bloating in her face and mummification in both hands and feet. Hackman's body was then found on the ground near the kitchen. This is in the mud room in a similar condition. So the sheriff later said there was no indication that either of them had suffered injuries from a fall. So what is your thoughts? There's so many scenarios that go through my mind. First of all, did he fall? And when he hit the ground, he died because he's 95. So maybe the fall alone was enough to kill him. Then his wife found him dead. Then she freaked out because she can't live without him, so she took pills.

[Unknown]

I thought it was odd when the daughters said that they had not spoken to him for a few months. They didn't say it like it was a bad thing. They said it like, just as a matter of fact, like, oh, we haven't spoken to our dad in two months. I'm like, you haven't spoken to your dad in a few months? Especially when your dad's Gene Hackman.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, but I haven't spoken to your.

[Unknown]

Dad in a few months.

[Emily Simpson]

My dad in a few Months.

[Unknown]

Okay, but are you. Yeah, but that's a different scenario.

[Emily Simpson]

But how do you know it's a different scenario?

[Unknown]

I don't know.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, here.

[Unknown]

I don't know because. Oh, I'll tell you. Because the daughters didn't say. Well, certainly I didn't read everything, but assuming there was. I just find not talking to your parents after a few months when they're 90 that old is a little odd. Now, if there was distance and they just had no close relationship, then. Okay, then it's not odd. That makes sense.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, well, here's my thoughts. As someone who is not very close with my dad and has a stepmom, my sister and I have always had a lack of communication with my dad because my stepmom controls. We call her the Gatekeeper. And when I was reading this about Gene Hackman, I kind of felt like it was the same scenario because it said Hackman did not even have a phone or an email address and his friends had to go through his wife to get in touch with him. Now, I understand that because that's what I have to do to talk to my dad.

[Unknown]

Yeah, but I think your dad doesn't want. Doesn't care for technology.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't think. It's just that. I think he doesn't care for technology because he's told.

[Unknown]

Okay, well, Gene happened. You know, being 95, maybe he just never really. I heard from re. What I read, which doesn't mean it's accurate that she kept him out of the spotlight, she kept him away from fans, this and that. Now maybe he wanted that initially and she took it too far. I don't know. But if she is this Gatekeeper, then him falling and dying and he wasn't that small guy. If he's. If he fell and got hurt and she couldn't care for him, and maybe she tried to care for him, him herself couldn't, and it just went south from there. I don't know. But there was like a story that, like when he. He was in the hospital a while ago, she would dress up as a nurse and go in and out so people wouldn't think she was the wife. Oh, she was, like, hiding.

[Emily Simpson]

Wait, but why wouldn't she want people to know that she was the wife? I don't understand.

[Unknown]

Like she was hiding from paparazzi or public.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, so she dressed up as a nurse in order to visit him?

[Unknown]

Assuming what I read was accurate, yes.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I don't know. So anyway, what are your thoughts on this? Here's my question. Is she's in her 60s. She's 30 something years younger than him. So the chances of her dying from a natural cause the same time frame that he died doesn't make sense. So that's where the suspicion comes in. Did she take pills because she couldn't live without him? Is there some outside? Is there time?

[Unknown]

Time will certainly tell.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, but we're gonna keep up with the story because Shane, I did not know Shane had such a deep love for Gene Hackman.

[Unknown]

So, like, the Heist is a really good movie. The French Connection, he plays Popeye Doyle. Really good car chase in there. He's, you know, he's great.

[Emily Simpson]

All right.

[Unknown]

I think his Lex Luther role was. Was terrible.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I'm glad that you, you do give him credit where it's due and. Okay, so let's move on to the.

[Unknown]

Stream measures with you. You, what's his name? Hugh Grant.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, that's good. Thank you.

[Unknown]

It was really good.

[Emily Simpson]

We are now Legally Brunette and we do movie reviews at the same time.

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[Emily Simpson]

Let's move on to the murder of Gabby Petito. Now I. When this case came out, did you follow it at all?

[Unknown]

Absolutely.

[Emily Simpson]

You did?

[Unknown]

Yeah, just. Just like daily. What was on the news?

[Emily Simpson]

Okay. I did not. I know I didn't. I remember briefly hearing things about it, but I really didn't know a lot of details about It. I didn't know what happened. I didn't even know. I didn't know a lot about it. But I did watch the Netflix special, which is on Netflix right now.

[Unknown]

Now you're a professional.

[Emily Simpson]

Now I know everything. There's snow. No, But I did watch the Netflix series and I was so invested in it that I then went outside and I googled more things, I did more research, I read more things. So anyway, guys, I'm excited. We're going to talk about Gabby Petito today. So if you haven't seen the Netflix special, I would say to watch it, it's very.

[Unknown]

Three episodes.

[Emily Simpson]

It's three episodes. They also, which is interesting, they took her voice and then made an AI recreation of her voice to read her journal entries. So that's her speaking but not her.

[Unknown]

Organic excerpts of it. They pull out.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. So let's just do a little background about the facts of this case so we can all just be on the same page and then we're going to go through like a little time.

[Unknown]

Hold on. So there's Gabby, who's the girl.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Unknown]

And then the boyfriend, fiance is Brian Laundrie. Brian.

[Emily Simpson]

So Gabrielle Venora Petito entered the world on March 19th of 1999. Tragically, on August 26th 7th, 2021, her life was cut short. At the young age of 22, she was on a cross country road trip with her fiance, Brian Laundry, and they were visiting national parks when he strangled her to death. This devastating event highlights the horrific reality that some individuals can become perpetrators of violence against those that they really should cherish and safeguard. And I think one of the main issues and why people are so engrossed in this is because when you watch the special or you read the facts or you read about what has happened, I think there are many times where you can see an avenue where Gabby could possibly escape or someone could help and it just doesn't turn out that way. And I think that's what's so frustrating.

[Unknown]

So that I think that that and not a conclusive like timeline of what happened and how he killed her and then coupled with lots of video and audio during this whole time.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Unknown]

For us to see.

[Emily Simpson]

Let's start. So in July 2nd of 2021, Gabby Petito and her fiance Brian embark on a four month trip traveling across the United States in their camper van. Now, the van was purchased by Gabby and the van is in Gabby's name, which I think is important. Gabby wanted to be a vlogger and she wanted to make a YouTube channel. Gabby's friends and family say that this was something she wanted to make a career out of. But Brian did not seem to support it. I mean, the interviews on the. In the special, they do talk about how he thought it was dumb, he thought it was silly. He wasn't really behind it. And I did find it interesting. Or that's just because I do love tacos. But Gabby worked full time at Taco Bell.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

In order to earn enough money to buy this van.

[Unknown]

Well, it was to fix up the van. Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, they had to buy. She had to buy the van. They had to fix up the van.

[Unknown]

And then 2012 Ford Transit.

[Emily Simpson]

Some spending money for this trip.

[Unknown]

So why. And they wanted to convert it because it was just a little delivery van. So they had to convert it a little bit.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Unknown]

To accommodate what they wanted and probably get video equipment and this and that.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Unknown]

And her little sign off to people was have a taco tastic day.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes, have a taco tastic day. All right. So they're out and about. They're going to national parks. She's trying to document it. I can tell she's frustrated because he doesn't. Brian, the fiance, doesn't seem to be helping her with any of the technology or editing part. That seems to be all on her shoulders. Then on August 12, this is a very.

[Unknown]

Well, it's evidenced by when you watch the. The documentary and it shows unedited video. So them trying to capture videos. Video content.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Unknown]

And you can tell it's him just kind of shrugging it off or not really engaging. And she's trying to figure it out like she's not a natural. She was kind of trying to egg him on to help her and he was kind of brushing it off.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, I. You could tell.

[Unknown]

So you wonder if he just didn't want to be on video.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, that was something that I think someone said in an interview, one of her friends, possibly I think it was Rose, said maybe he was reluctant or hesitant to be on this video because he knows what he's like. He can't always control.

[Unknown]

It might actually strangle you. And I don't want the camera to be rolling.

[Emily Simpson]

Exactly. So August 12th of 2021 is a very important date. And the Gabby Petito case. This is the day when they are going through Moab. And Shane and I have been to Moab. Just interesting fun fact there. But body cam footage from police officer Eric Pratt shows Brian and Gabby's van being pulled over on the side of the road in Moab City. City Utah. Earlier that day, officers had received a call from someone reporting that the caller had witnessed a male slapping a female in a white van fitting the same description. So through the body cam footage, we see Gabby hysterically crying to officers. She talks about how she has ocd. She has really bad anxiety. When the officer asked her what's wrong, Gabby states, we've just been fighting this morning. Some personal issues. Yeah, I don't know. It's just some days I have really bad OCD and I was just clinging, cleaning and straightening up. I was apologizing to him, saying that I'm so mean because sometimes I have OCD and I get frustrated. However, this is the part that I think kind of boggles my mind. They do remove Gabby from the van. They put her in the police car and she visibly has. Her eye is been struck.

[Unknown]

I didn't. And I have the injury. I saw the photo that she took of herself, that injury in that video. Not that I could see clearly. There was no injury, but I couldn't see whether there was or was an injury. So I don't know if they knew offhand, like maybe it didn't show. Remember when my mom got in an accident?

[Emily Simpson]

No, because he referenced it. He says, you have something on your eye and it looks like you have a fresh mark on your. So this is the photo from her camera roll of her eye. And this is the day that she was pulled over. She has the same top on.

[Unknown]

It looks like she was slapped around.

[Emily Simpson]

It looks like she was hit and slapped in the face. On her. She's got a mark on her forehead, a mark on her cheek, a mark on her. Across her nose, the bridge of her nose. Her eye is red. It's got a little bit of blood and scratching. He also makes a reference to her having a new fresh mark on her arm. Now, I do know that Brian has marks on his face. He's got some scratches. I found him, Brian, and maybe this is just because I'm already have a preconceived notion of who this man is, because I know what happens. But when I'm watching him on the body cam footage, I find him to be nervous. I find him to make comments like he's like, well, I don't know what Gabby's going to tell you. To me, that's very telling that I, I feel like he's trying to hide the fact that he is the aggressor in this situation. And I think she has been conditioned to, to take the blame. She's, she's.

[Unknown]

Or to Diffuse it.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. And it worries me that what happened in this scenario is they separate them. They put her in a car and then she's hysterical. She says she has ocd, she says she has anxiety. She's definitely been hit in the face. So I might. The way I was understanding the cops position was I felt as if one said, hey, we don't really have discretion when it comes to domestic abuse in this type of situation. Someone needs to be arrested. But then I do know that they pulled the female officer in. So I felt as if they thought that they should arrest someone, whether it was Brian or Gabby, because they do make clear that they think she's the aggressor. But your opinion is they, they just.

[Unknown]

Well, I think they had an officer come in and I remember on video one of the officers was saying something effect of like, like, hey, if you want to, if you think we're, we're in a situation, this is a scenario where someone needs to be arrested, I'll support you. If you think this is a situation where it doesn't meet the checklist of having to arrest someone, I'll support that too. So it was like, whatever you, whichever direction you want to go, I'll support it. And then clearly they went the direction of not arresting.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, what do you think about not making an arrest? Because I have read several articles. I've read, you know, we'll talk about it in a little bit. But. But Gabby Petito's parents have gone on to sue the Moab City Police Department for the way they handled the situation on this day day. Do you think that if arrest was made, whether it was Gabby or whether it was Brian, that it could have had a different outcome? There could have been a different scenario.

[Unknown]

It could have and we'll never know. But, but they kept getting back together. They kept getting back together because remember what happened is. So they ended up deciding to separate the two to, for like a cooling off period. And they got him like a hotel or motel and escorted him there and they gave her the camper, probably because it was in her name and gave it to her. And they give her the mobility to, to drive home or go wherever she wanted. And they advised them heavily, do not contact each other tonight. Just let it cool off and start again tomorrow. They didn't do that. She immediately was texting him. So he would have gone out of jail the next day or whatever it was and they would have gone right back together.

[Emily Simpson]

So you don't think making an arrest would have made much of a difference?

[Unknown]

I Don't know. But that, but that doesn't mean they, I mean, if they should have arrested, they should have arrested.

[Emily Simpson]

I think maybe possibly arresting Gabby because they did claim that she was the aggressor in this situation based upon her saying, yeah, I, I, well, arresting, what it separated, right? Yeah. But I feel like if she were arrested and she was actually detained and then she had to make a phone call, even though I do know she called her mom. But if she had to call her mom and call her parents and say, I was arrested, did I need your help, I have to hire an attorney, you need to come here. That then maybe her parents would have.

[Unknown]

So it would have been elevated to a point where maybe they would have stepped in. Yeah, yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

And that's where I think that possibly there could have been a different outcome is if Gabby was the one that was arrested in this situation. Also, I was confused and I don't know if anybody else thought this when they were watching it, but it did bother me that she was hysterical in the car. She said she had ocd. She said she was dealing with severe anxiety, but then they put her in a vehicle to drive away and stay alone in her vehicle.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Emily Simpson]

I was like, you're so the girl who's hysterical, who says she has OCD and suffers from anxiety. You just handed her the keys to the, her vehicle and said, you're now you're alone in a park and you're going to stay alone in your vehicle.

[Unknown]

Yeah, they, maybe they could have escorted her. I, just somewhere.

[Emily Simpson]

I didn't, I, I didn't like that part. Also, let me just say one more thing. When it comes to the parents, and I don't know, this might be an unpopular opinion, I had a hard time with the mom. Now, I understand that she lost her daughter and she is a grieving mother. So I'm not trying to be negative towards the mom, but as a parent, if my 22 year old daughter called me from the side of a road and said she had gotten in a fight with her boyfriend and they're on a road trip alone together and police had pulled them over and she was hysterical, I'm telling you, I would be in a car or on a plane immediately.

[Unknown]

No, you wouldn't.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes, I would.

[Unknown]

You would be telling me to. Okay, but someone like, get out there right now.

[Emily Simpson]

That's probably true.

[Unknown]

Yeah, we would have, we would have.

[Emily Simpson]

But I'm telling you, there is no way that I would have hung up the phone and then been like, well, I hope you proceed along Fingers crossed. I hope you guys get along. The next day, I just, I don't know in what world me as.

[Unknown]

But we also don't know what conversations have. Maybe Gabby really talked her mom into, like, it's fine. Maybe she calmed down, which I don't. We don't know.

[Emily Simpson]

Let me ask one more question because when Shane and I were watching this together, when it first showed Gabby getting the van ready and getting in the van to go with Brian on this cross country trip across the United States, he asked, Shane said to me, how old is she? And I said, She's 22. And he said, would you let your daughter go on a cross country trip in a van with her boyfriend? And I said, well, I don't know. That's an interesting question because one, she's 22, so she's technically an adult.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

But also, I don't think I would be supportive of it.

[Unknown]

Not, not, not someone, definitely not with a killer, but definitely not with him where it didn't seem like her parents had a close relationship with him or they knew him and they were familiar with him and they had a history together. So it was kind of like, oh, my new boyfriend and I are going to go travel to the, you know, continental US together in this camper van. That's where it's like, what? And I don't remember if there was any history between him and the parents, but it just seemed if they had been together for years, family friend, engaged, and there was a lot of comfort there and knowing who he was and he was a good partner and then they wanted to go on a road trip. Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, so here's the difference is what I'm picking up from you because Shane does have a 23 year old daughter and she was recently married. So you're saying if Shelby went to you and was 22 and you didn't really know Evan, that's her husband, you would advise her not to go.

[Unknown]

I would be worried about her going. I'd certainly ask a lot of questions and probably discourage her from going. But if it was today that she was going to do that, my questions would be more about like, is it a smart thing financially? Are you going to be sustainable? Are you going to fall behind in whatever your plan, like those things, not like her safety with her husband because we've known him for years now, he's been nothing but good to her. They haven't had any domestic issue. You know what I mean?

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Unknown]

So it's like, yeah, of course. Now it's just a question. Of whether it's a road trip's a good idea, not who you're going with.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay. So, as I stated a little bit earlier, so the Petitos end up filing a lawsuit against the city of Moab for the way they handled that. So they did an investigative report. And I thought this was interesting because they did feature an interview with officer Pratt, who was one of the officers that was there, and says, I'm desperately effed over that she got killed. I really am. He said, I would have done anything to stop it if I would have known that. That that was coming. If I was.

[Unknown]

Of course, if anyone knew, they would have stopped.

[Emily Simpson]

If I would have known laundry. That Brian was going to murder her, I would have taken vacation to follow them because I care about people to the point where he was going to murder her, and I would have intervened and citizens arrested him in Wyoming. I would have taken my own time. I would have missed my family to go do that. Captain Brandon Radcliffe did not lay blame on officer Pratt or fellow responding officer Daniel Robbins, saying, quote, they both believed at the time they were making the right decision based on the totality of the circumstances that were presented. That's basically your reasonable person standard in that situation. And, you know, that's what we. We were talking about, not knowing what was to come in the future. Would different officers have handled it differently? Did they do the right thing? I don't know. But what happened in this lawsuit against the city of Moab was basically, the court dismissed it, saying that it is really just an issue of police immunity. You can't sue police officers. And what they did was say, but you can take it to a higher court if they want to address the constitutionality of this immunity that they have. So the Patitos have appealed the case. I believe what I can find so far is basically that it's in line to possibly be picked up by the Utah Supreme Supreme Court. So we'll see what happens with that. That could be a long journey there.

[Unknown]

But when you watched it, do you think the police officers made the wrong choice? Not. Not knowing the outcome, just. Just watching everything as if you were there. Do you think police officers should have done something further to separate them?

[Emily Simpson]

I do. I. I do. Because to me, she looked like a frail, scared, timid young girl that weighs 100 pounds. And I thought he was creepy. Even not know, even if you take out the circumstances of knowing what happens in the future, then I felt like she looked like she was in danger.

[Unknown]

Why did the police. Why do you think the police did not do. Do anything.

[Emily Simpson]

Because I think she kept saying that he was her person. She didn't want to be separated. They were a team. She kept calling them a team. And I think these cops thought, let's just separate them, and then they'll be fine.

[Unknown]

The next day, say, I wondered when I was watching it if. Because they weren't residents of Moab, and I wondered if it was like, these people are coming through. Because it's something like 5,000 people live in Moab, but there's, like, multi. Like, 3 to 4 million visitors a year during peak seasons. So you'll wonder if they're kind of like, separate them and get them to move along. Do we really want to, like, you know, book someone from. From out of our city and get involved that way and keep them around, or are they just traveling through and this is let him cool off and travel through? I think them not being a resident was taken into consideration whether they really wanted to be invested in. In either of them being arrested. That's what I think.

[Emily Simpson]

I'm sure that's probably true, too.

[Unknown]

But does that make it right or wrong? I don't know.

[Emily Simpson]

All right, so this.

[Unknown]

I like how I make a pretty deep, profound. I theorize something, and you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, because I. You. You made your profound statement, and now the listeners can agree with you or not. It's not up for me. It's up to them. All right, So I just want to go on with a little bit more of that. However, Mr. Radcliffe suggested that the traffic stop should have ended with Petito's arrest because she admitted to hitting laundry. I still kind of disagree with that, but that's okay. Based on the information provided in this specific incident, Brian would be the victim, with Gabby being the suspect. I do not find that they enforced the law. They responded to a confirmed domestic violence incident, and they had evidence showing an assault had taken place. The statements of all those involved along with the evidence presented, provided probable cause for an arrest. The report recommended that both officers be put on probation and that the entire department receive additional domestic violence investigation training to ensure that officers understand state laws and statutes. We'll see what happens.

[Unknown]

So what's the next timeline event?

[Emily Simpson]

So we're still on a timeline. So that was the. That was August 12th when they were pulled over. Now, August 19th, 2021, Gabby and Brian share their first and only YouTube video highlighting their road trip across the United States.

[Unknown]

They only posted one video.

[Emily Simpson]

One out of all of that.

[Unknown]

Okay, then he definitely was not supportive in what did he want then? What do you think? We're just going to go on a road trip? Like she says, let's go on a road trip and document it and try to build some type of channel and following. And he's just like, okay. And then he has no interest in doing that part. He just wants to go on the camping part. Like, what was his plan?

[Emily Simpson]

I think his plan. I think he was just obsessed with Gabby and his plan was just to.

[Unknown]

Be with Gabby, isolated with her, and to is.

[Emily Simpson]

I think he was fine isolating her. I think he, you know, earlier in the time.

[Unknown]

Money to support themselves.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't think they needed a lot of money. I think they ate in the van and I think they live. They took showers, whatever those public shower places the police were talking about, where he kept telling her over and over she could get a hot shower for four.

[Unknown]

My wife lies. A hot shower. He kept saying that. I was like, okay, good for your wife.

[Emily Simpson]

I know that police officer kept running.

[Unknown]

Every time you beat your wife. She likes hot shower. I was like, you can't say that. I don't know what he was saying. He just kept saying, when my wife gets frazzled, she takes a hot show shower.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I'm sure his wife loves that. They keep showing that video over and over. He talks about how his wife suffers.

[Unknown]

Because it kind of looked like he sends his wife to those truck stops for a shower. Lady, you need to cool off.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, go to.

[Unknown]

Here's four bucks. Go get a shower.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay. So the video, they're all. Their first and only video that they posted received 500 views when it was initially posted, but it has now received over 10 million views. And I don't even know, maybe it's even more than 10 million now. I'm not sure how recent that is. All right, that was August 19th. Now we move on to August 26th of 2021. Gabby shares her final Instagram post. It was wishing everyone a happy Halloween as she holds a crochet pumpkin. The post is a series of selfies of Gabby looking happy and carefree. Now we move on to August 27th of 2021. This is the assumed date of Gabby's murder. However, police cannot be certain because her body was not found right away. This is also the last footage of Gabby that has ever been captured. There is CCTV video of her and Brian in a Whole Foods store. You can see the video of them walking down the aisle shopping together. And that's the last known time that anyone saw her alive.

[Unknown]

August 12th. They get pulled over by the MOAB troopers.

[Emily Simpson]

Uhhuh.

[Unknown]

August 19th. So one week later, they post their first and only video. And then another week later, August 26, she hurts her final Instagram post.

[Emily Simpson]

Right?

[Unknown]

And then. And then the following day is the assumed date of murder.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. Okay, now, also, I know you didn't get this far, but Gabby called an ex boyfriend, right?

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah, I saw. I did see. I did watch. Okay, well, the first text she sent him was, I'm sure I'm the last person you want to hear from, or I'm sure you're the. I'm the last person you'd think you'd hear from something. They have not communicated. And it wasn't normal for her to reach out to him, but she reached out to him.

[Emily Simpson]

Right?

[Unknown]

And he felt there was a reason. Like it was a cry for help.

[Emily Simpson]

So when Gabby was texting with his ex boyfriend, she did make it clear, I believe, that she wanted to break up with Brian. And so I think she was reaching out to the ex boyfriend for some kind of help or guidance or, you know, sometimes when you're just like, I'm done, but I'm stuck somewhere.

[Unknown]

Maybe she didn't want her mom to judge her, say, see, he was not good for you. Or maybe her mom wasn't really. Her parents weren't so quick to come out and save her the way she wanted it. So she called her former boyfriend and was like, I need help. I don't know.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know. But so she calls him, and he doesn't answer. He says in an interview that he was at work, so he couldn't answer, and then that was the last time he heard from her because we assumed she was. She was murdered shortly after that.

[Unknown]

Now, who knows? And she left no message. Right? So she could have. A lot could have been told had that phone call been picked up.

[Emily Simpson]

So August 27th was the last time Gabby was seen on any footage. So we know that she was alive on August 27th. On August 29th, 2021, Brian called his parents on this day and said, quote, gabby is gone. He later asked his father to arrange an attorney for him. Following this, the father, Chris.

[Unknown]

Wait, how do we know these phone calls exist?

[Emily Simpson]

Because, well, they end up getting the phone records, and they can see that he called his parents and they had.

[Unknown]

But they can't see the content. So how do we know the content?

[Emily Simpson]

Because I believe that the father testified, came forward later and said that that.

[Unknown]

Was what was said. I just want to make sure it was accurate.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, so following this, Christopher Laundry, who is the dad, claimed that, quote, he had no idea what to think about what had happened to Gabby. He just asked me to get a lawyer and I couldn't get any more information from him. End quote. Speaking about the day Brian called them, Rob, Roberta Laundry, who is the mother, told the court his voice was very upset and I didn't know why. I didn't want to push him, so we just said goodbye. When I got off the phone, I told Chris, that's the dad, you know, Brian sounded upset. Maybe you should give him a call. So then that's when it ended up being a longer call. I think that's when he asked for the attorney and said, gabby is gone. Now we get to August 30th. A final text message is sent from Gabby's phone. This is likely Brian posing as Gabby. The text was sent to Gabby's mom, Nicole. However, Nicole felt something was really strange with the wording of the message because it referred to Gabby's grandfather by his first name, Stan, which Gabby would never normally call. She would say Grandpa or something, but she said Stan in the text message. So you can assume on August 30th that he's texting from his phone to Gabby's phone, her or using her phone to reply. He also, that same day, Zelled himself from Gabby's account, $700. And then, you know, in on Zell and notes. Yeah, he put something to the effect of, I never want to see you.

[Unknown]

Again, basically, as if from her to him.

[Emily Simpson]

As if from her to him.

[Unknown]

She was buying him out of the.

[Emily Simpson]

Relationship, like, that's it. So not only did Brian sell himself money from Gabby's account, but also on his road trip home driving her van, he also used her debit card to get gas. So there's a little bit of a trail that's starting to come forward as far as Zell is using her phone, he's using her debit card, and I assume. So you think that he most likely ended his life when he did?

[Unknown]

Because these things are starting, I'm guessing, if I don't remember. But I think, yeah, things started to surface and the next thing you know, he disappears and then he dies. Probably because he realized, how am I going to explain that I used her credit card? How am I going to explain this? How am I going to explain that? And I used her phone. I'm trying to cover up her death.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. But September 1, 2021, Brian arrives back at the home of his parents, Chris and Roberta. And this is in Florida. So he shows up September 1st in Florida. He shows up alone, though he was in his and Gabby's van. While he's in Florida, Brian and his parents moved between the family home and a local area for a camping trip. Now when he shows up.

[Unknown]

That's odd. I remember that now. That is odd. They went camping with him.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, I know. Well, what's odd is if you're almost.

[Unknown]

Like it's not their first rodeo, like, oh, let's go camping.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, what's odd is your son is on a road trip with his girlfriend and then he shows up back in Florida driving her van that's registered in her name and she's nowhere to be found. And then you're just gonna go camping and continue to live life like nothing happened and nobody would know.

[Unknown]

Before we have our initial consultation with my new criminal attorney. Let's go camping. They went out where there was no where they were off the grid, away from everyone. And then they could talk in private.

[Emily Simpson]

That, that's. Yeah, I didn't think about that, but probably. So on September 5th. Now remember he, he arrives back in Florida on September 1st alone. September 5th. His sister Cassie says this date is the last time she saw her brother or was able to contact him. She also claims her parents stopped responding to her as the investigation is playing out. So he's disappeared. The sister doesn't know where he is, and the parents are also not responding to the sister. Now, September 11th of 2021, Gabby's mother Nicole reports Gabby missing to police. The police tow Brian and Gabby's shared van away from the laundry family's driveway. And when confronted by police, Roberta and Chris, these are his parents, deny having any knowledge of Gabby's whereabouts. Now this was so. Did you see this? This was so frustrating for me. The mom, Gabby's mom, calls and makes a missing missing person report about Gabby, saying they haven't heard from her since it would have been the 27th. Right. Because that was the last day anybody heard from her or saw her on video. Here we are, September 11th.

[Unknown]

Yeah. So you're easily two weeks.

[Emily Simpson]

Two weeks at this point. The police show up at Brian's house. We're at his parents house. Gabby is not there. The van is there.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

The van is registered in her name.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Emily Simpson]

The sister said that Brian said that he flew back from their trip, which is a blatant lie because there's the van. He clearly drove it back.

[Unknown]

Unless he's. Yeah, unless he's arguing that she drove back. He flew back. But then be like, okay, we'll show us your flight attenuator.

[Emily Simpson]

But then when the police go to the door and record requests to speak to Brian, the dad comes out, refuses to speak, refuses to answer questions, and hands him the business card of their lawyer.

[Unknown]

If my kid murdered his girlfriend, I'd be driving him down to the police station.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, you know I am.

[Unknown]

That doesn't mean I wouldn't take reasonable precautions. Okay. Yeah, you know, you have your rights. Hire a lawyer. But it'd be like, sorry, dude, we're not going camping. We're going to go to the police station.

[Emily Simpson]

You're not going to help bury the body, and you're not going to hinder the investigation, and you're not going to allow this mother who has no idea where her daughter is continue to guess and not know where her daughter is?

[Unknown]

No. Apparently you would.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, you'd be like, oh, Luky, come.

[Unknown]

To bed with mama. Oh.

[Emily Simpson]

I mean, I have boys, and that.

[Unknown]

Doesn'T mean I'd be okay with it, but that's what you got to do.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, I mean, I'm not.

[Unknown]

I mean, it would be tough.

[Emily Simpson]

I have.

[Unknown]

I would be. I would feel awful, but it would be like, sorry, dude.

[Emily Simpson]

All right, this is the. The question now. So then by September 17, 2021, Brian's family reports him missing. They haven't seen him in three days and suspect that he's in the Carlton Reserve in Sarasota. Sarasota county in Florida. They claim they did not alert police about it sooner as they thought Brian was going on a camping trip to get away from all of the chaos. Lots of questions here. First of all, the night that the police come and they're asking about Gabby, did you think that they had probable cause to arrest Brian at that time? Here's my. Here's my thoughts. She's reported missing. The mother hasn't heard from her. The van is parked in the driveway. It's registered in her name. The dad won't talk. Brian won't come to the door. They hand him a card, a business card of an attorney and say, contact my attorney. Is that enough to arrest him? And should they have arrested him at that time?

[Unknown]

They should have because the car is in her name. So that it's like, my daughter's missing for two weeks. She was with that guy. He doesn't know where she is or he's not talking and he has her car.

[Emily Simpson]

But I've also read and thought about that. They don't want to arrest too early in an investigation.

[Unknown]

Here's what I'M thinking. I'm thinking the Petito parents. Did not. Did not. Were not aggressive enough in saying our daughter is missing, something's wrong. Just as they weren't very protective of her when she wanted to just go across the country with some new guy.

[Emily Simpson]

So you're saying you're not. You're not saying they're bad parents, you're not blaming the parents, but you're saying they. They could have been more.

[Unknown]

I would have been like, she's been gone for two weeks. If I knew. If. Assuming they knew all these facts. She's been gone for two weeks. I have not heard from her. She called me crying once when the police pulled her over. There's been some scuffling between the two of them and she. He came back without her and he has her car and I am fearful. I need to. I need to. We need to look into this.

[Emily Simpson]

What would you have done differently? Because she called the police and she. She reported her missing in Florida to where his parents live. So I'm saying if you don't know where they are on their road trip because you haven't heard from her for two weeks, where are you physically going to go?

[Unknown]

I. I don't know. I don't know.

[Emily Simpson]

But you would have had life 360 on her.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I would have done something.

[Emily Simpson]

You would have known where she was.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

We have Life360 on Annabelle.

[Unknown]

I would have.

[Emily Simpson]

Unless she. But he took her phone. How do you can't. Like.

[Unknown]

I don't know. But I would not have been sleeping normal and going back to work the next day and all this. I would have been trying to figure it out.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, here is my problem with the way the police handled it. When Brian ends up back in Florida, we don't know where the body is. We don't know where Gabby is. Brian was the key to finding Gabby Patito. And they did not have a trail on him. They were not watching him. He disappeared from the police and the police had no idea where he was. We are lucky that someone else ended up finding the body. But what if. What if someone didn't find the body outside of Brian? The police lost him. They don't know where he is. Do you understand what I'm saying?

[Unknown]

Yeah, I think.

[Emily Simpson]

I'm saying that Brian is the key to finding out what happened to Gabby, where her body is, how she was.

[Unknown]

Right. He knows everything. He's the only one that knows.

[Emily Simpson]

The only one that knows. And the police lost him.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

They didn't know where he Was.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

And it took his parents to go to this camping site, which, by the way, is also suspicious that police were apparently looking for him for days and days and days in this campsite. And then his parents show up and they literally, like, walk to where he is.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

They're like, oh, there he is with his backpack and, you know, his camping things. They found him like that.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I don't know. All right, that family's dirty or shady.

[Emily Simpson]

Let's back up a little bit. Let's go through this timeline. September 17th is when Brian's family reports him missing. They haven't seen him in three days. They suspect that he's camping. September 19th is when Gabby's body is found near Grand Teton national park in Wyoming. After speaking with her family and having her identified, the news was made public. So her body is found on September 19th. Now, remember, he went missing on September 17th. This was my point from earlier. If someone did not come across her body in that park, this guy eluded police, disappeared into a campsite, and nobody can find him. He is the only one who knows where she is buried, knows how she died, knows anything. I just saying that police lost him.

[Unknown]

Yeah. They lost their. Their hot lead.

[Emily Simpson]

They did.

[Unknown]

And that person of interest.

[Emily Simpson]

Exactly. So September 21st, the coroner rules her cause of death is homicide. So now it's turned into a murder investigation.

[Unknown]

Yeah, they should have put, like, a tracker on his car. They. They did that with, like, Scott Peterson. Oh, you're very suspicious. Scott Peterson. And they put a tracker on his car.

[Emily Simpson]

I'm telling you, if they didn't want to take him into custody because they didn't feel like they had enough evidence for a murder. I get that. I understand that you want to make sure when you arrest him that you have all your ducks in a row because you don't want him to get out. However, they don't know where he is. They're not tracking him. They don't have someone following him. They're not watching the house. They. This guy shows up in Florida without his girlfriend, and he disappears. Her body was in a national park. It could have eluded people, police, campers, her family, forever. On October 20, after over a month of searching, Brian's belongings and his body are found by his parents and the authorities. And the authorities should actually just be in parentheses because the authorities have been looking for him for over a month. They can't find him, but then his parents just, like, walk up and find him within an hour. Then on November 23rd of 2021, following an autopsy. Police confirmed that Brian died by suicide with a gunshot wound in his head. Now, here's some other important details about this story. Police. This is very interesting. You'll. You'll like this. Police found a letter that Brian's mom, Roberta, had written to him. There is no way to know when the letter was actually written. It was not dated, but the envelope reads, brian Christopher Laundry. And then it says, burn after reading.

[Unknown]

And this is found on him?

[Emily Simpson]

I believe so. The letter reads, I just want you to remember I will always love you. And I know you will always love me. You are my boy. Nothing can make me stop loving you. Nothing will or could ever divide us. No matter what we do or where we go or what we say, we will always love each other. If you're in jail, I will bake a cake with a file in it. If you need to dispose of a body, I will. I will show up with a shovel and garbage. Garbage bags. If you fly to the moon, I will be watching the skies for your re entry. If you say you hate my guts, I will get new guts. Roberta, that's. The mom. Has said the letter was written before her son's trip with Petito. And one of her attorneys released a statement saying it was, quote, in no way related to Gabby. End quote. Although Patito's family has challenged those assertions. Now the Petitos end up suing Brian Laundry's family. It did not go to trial, which I think is a good thing. They ended up settling, and I'm sure it's because both sides did not want to litigate the details of what happened to Gabby. And so it ended up settling out of court for. I don't know if it was an undisputed or something or. I think it was 3 million. Yeah. So what are your thoughts on that?

[Unknown]

A shady family. That is a shady family would not. I would not recommend dating anyone in that family. I have a question. His parents found his body.

[Emily Simpson]

His parents found his body.

[Unknown]

Okay, hold on. They. They knew where he was. They were in communication with him. Did they search his phones after they found his body or anything like that that we know of?

[Emily Simpson]

You know what I always thought, because I did think of that myself, I thought maybe they found that the police found Brian's phone when they found him dead because they did find a notebook with Brian that had.

[Unknown]

Yeah, that's right.

[Emily Simpson]

That had, like, his handwritten journal entries in it. So I just want to read a few passages from his notebook that was found with his belongings after he committed suicide. I'm Sorry to everyone this will affect. Gabby was the love of my life and I know adored by many. I'm so very sorry to her family because I love them. I consider her younger siblings my best of friends. I am sorry to my family. This is a shock to them as well as a terrible grief. Please do not make this harder for them. This occurred as an unexpected tragedy. Rushing back to our car, trying to cross the streams before it got too dark to see, Too cold. I hear a splash and a scream. I could barely see. I couldn't find her for a moment. Shouted her name. I found her. Breathing heavily, I carried her as far as I could from the stream toward the car. Stumbling, exhausted, in shock. Knew I couldn't safely carry her. I started a fire and spooned her as close to the heat. She was so thin, had already been freezing too long. While carrying her, she continually made sounds of pain. Laying next to her, she said little gasping between violent shakes. Gasping and pain, begging for an end to her pain. She would fall asleep and I would shake her awake, fearing she shouldn't close her eyes if she had a concussion. I don't know the extent of Gabby's injuries, only that she was in extreme pain. I ended her life. I thought it was merciful. That is what she wanted. But I see now all the mistakes I made. I panicked. I was in shock. I knew I couldn't go on without her.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

I rushed home to spend any time I had left with my family. I wanted to drive north and let James or TJ kill me. I assume James or TJ is dad and stepdad, but I wouldn't want them to spend time in jail over my mistake, even though I'm sure they would have liked to. I am ending my life not because of a fear of punishment, but rather because I can't stand to live another day without her. I've lost our whole future together. Every moment we could have shared. I'm sorry for everyone's loss. Please do not make life harder for my family. They lost a son and a daughter. The most wonderful girl in the world. Gabby. I'm sorry. So that was found in his name notebook next to his body when he committed suicide. The part that bothers me about him committing suicide again, I'm going back to the police, and I believe they have probable cause that night to either arrest him, detain him, question him, track him, follow him, is I want to see this guy brought to justice. Suicide is too easy of a way out for him. I want him to go to court. I want there to Be. Even though I feel badly that the parents would have to go through a trial. But don't you want to know what happened? Don't you want to go through his phone? Don't you want to question him and depose him and put him on the stand?

[Unknown]

Yeah, he's gonna rot in hell. Well, that'll be it.

[Emily Simpson]

So what happens after this, Gabby?

[Unknown]

You know, you've been in pain before, like, after all your surgeries and stuff.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I never.

[Unknown]

And you're miserable, and I never once thought, oh, I'll strangle you and put you out of your misery.

[Emily Simpson]

No, thank you for that. I appreciate it. I mean, I did have a hip replacement. And I will tell you, the pain that I was in before my hip replacement was the most severe pain I have ever been in. And I'm thankful to you for not ending.

[Unknown]

No, I will not strangle you as a result, as I. Hip replacement.

[Emily Simpson]

As I moaned and gasped in pain at night. Because I did do that for a long time. Yeah.

[Unknown]

I mean, are you buying anything he wrote there?

[Emily Simpson]

No. This.

[Unknown]

I mean, you know, he strangled her. She gasped for air. She begged it to stop, and all those things he said, but it's because he was killing her.

[Emily Simpson]

I. I think it had to do with jealousy. I think he probably saw her phone, saw that she had texted the ex boyfriend, saw that she had called the ex boyfriend. I think he went into a jealous rage because he knew that she was probably trying to get away from him.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah, because. Yeah, yeah, because she might have been saying, I'm gonna break up with you, and things like that. And then he sees the phone. It's the ex boyfriend.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. So Gabby Petito's family appealed a Utah judge's decision dismissing their wrongful death lawsuit against the Moab Police Department. We talked earlier. The family is seeking to change a state law that limits wrongful death claims against the government agencies. The family hopes to change the law to prevent future victims of domestic violence from going without justice. So where it's at now is they are appealing to the Utah Supreme Court. So we'll see if the Utah Supreme Court picks up the case. It's a constitutional issue at this point, really.

[Unknown]

All. All that can happen. The best thing outcome is the police department learns something. They do an internal review, and they do something to make it better for next time. That's.

[Emily Simpson]

That's.

[Unknown]

That's all you can do.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. And then in 2022, the Petito and Schmidt family. Petito is his family. Schmidt is the mom. Settled a wrongful death lawsuit against Brian's parents for 3 million. And then in 2024, the Petito family settled another case alleging that the laundries had inflicted emotional distress. And I think that's the undisclosed amount. I don't know how much that was, but they settled that. So that's where we're at. Also, just if there's any good that came from the Petito case, there is the Gabby Petito bill, which was passed in Florida in 2024. It's a new bill passed by the House and Senate, and it. It was advocated for by Joseph Petito, Gabby Petito's father. And it creates A set of 12 mandatory questions law enforcement will have to ask a potential victim when. When responding to a domestic violence call. It's referred to as the Gabby Petito Act. And I'll just go through some. We don't have to go through all 12, but it's to. I think it's to streamline the process better. Especially when you think back to the. The Moa Moab situation where they pulled her over and they put her in another car, and they were just kind of asking her, who's the aggressor? Was it you? Did you hit him? It wasn't. There wasn't a structured system of trying to find out what happened. So the mandatory set of 12 questions include. Let's just go through some of them. Did the aggressor ever use a weapon against you or threaten you? Did the aggressor ever threaten to kill you or your children? Yeah.

[Unknown]

What happens when the. The scared person in this relationship is saying, no, no, they didn't. No, no, they didn't. Everything's fine?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I don't know. You know, I don't know. It. I don't know.

[Unknown]

They kind of asked her questions, and she just made it like he was the love of her life. And they're a team, and I'm sorry I acted out and I hit him, and that's why he was driving like that. And.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, you know, maybe the fact that it's 12 questions, which is a lot of questions, maybe that the point is to build a rapport.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

And if you're asking 12 mandatory questions, that it's a long enough conversation that maybe that person calms down, and maybe.

[Unknown]

The police are forced to kind of, you know, based on these 12 questions, to dig deeper and kind of. Not just.

[Emily Simpson]

And to evaluate maybe the body language, the answers make a determination.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

I think now is it going to make a huge difference? I don't have any idea. But at least the point is, is that based upon what happened to Gabby, people, legislatures are saying, hey, there needs to be a better system in place so that we can protect people better. So at least that's a positive start. So, anyway, all right, thank you guys so much for listening. We appreciate it. And again, let us know if there's any cases out there that you would love for us to cover, to talk about. And we always appreciate feedback. So thank you so much for listening.

[Unknown]

Thank you.