Legally Brunette: Jason Corbett

Summary

Summary of Podcast Episode: "Legally Brunette: Jason Corbett"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge
• Host/Authors: iHeartPodcasts
• Description: Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge team up to Tell All. Listen each week as they watch and rehash as only they can. Who knows housewives better than housewives?! Right?! Teddi and Tamra are Two Ts in a Pod. (Telling All).
• Episode: Legally Brunette: Jason Corbett
• Release Date: July 15, 2025

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Introduction to the Episode

The episode begins with the hosts, Emily Simpson and Shane, diving directly into current events and high-profile legal cases, setting the stage for an engaging and informative discussion. The primary focus of this episode centers around the complex and controversial case of Jason Corbett, a subject recently depicted in the Netflix documentary A Deadly American Marriage.

Justin Bieber and Scooter Braun Settlement

[03:07] Emily Simpson:
"Hi, guys. Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I'll be your host today, Emily Simpson. And Shane. And Shane. Just Shane."

The hosts kick off the episode by addressing a significant financial settlement between pop star Justin Bieber and his former manager, Scooter Braun. Emily provides a detailed overview of the dispute:

[03:29] Emily Simpson:
"So according to an article that was in Cosmopolitan, Justin Bieber and his former manager, Scooter Braun, have been locked in a financial battle since 2023. Scooter and his company, Hybe, covered the cost of Justin's world tour that he canceled back in 2022. Allegedly, he still owed $26 million to Hybe."

Shane probes further into the implications of the settlement:

[04:46] Shane:
"Maybe. I don't really know. So he's just paying the full amount?"

Emily clarifies the details of the settlement:

[04:50] Emily Simpson:
"No, he's not paying the full amount, but he owed $26 million and some $11 million in unpaid commissions, and then another $8.6 million. But they settled on $31.5 million."

The discussion delves into the possible motivations behind Justin Bieber's ability to settle the debt, especially in light of his wife, Hailey Bieber, selling her cosmetic company for a billion dollars:

[07:18] Emily Simpson:
"Hailey Bieber, Justin's wife, sold her cosmetics brand Road to Elf Beauty at the end of May for $1 billion. Some fans speculate it could have been to help with her husband's financial struggles."

Shane remains skeptical about the direct connection between Hailey's business success and Justin's settlement:

[07:23] Shane:
"Yeah, it's like, you have a little bit of debt, so you sell your billion-dollar company. It doesn't work like that."

Denise Richards and Aaron Phipers Divorce Case

Transitioning from celebrity financial disputes, Emily introduces a high-profile family law case involving actress Denise Richards and her husband, Aaron Phipers.

[14:18] Emily Simpson:
"Aaron Phipers filed his petition to divorce Denise Richards on Monday, July 7, after six years of marriage."

Shane expresses curiosity about the relatively short duration of the marriage before seeking a divorce, especially in California where prolonged marriages can lead to permanent spousal support.

[14:46] Shane:
"Well, my first question, when I saw that they'd been married for six years, the first thing that popped into my mind was why didn't he just stick it out for another four years?"

Emily discusses the financial burdens Aaron faces, highlighting his lack of income since closing his wellness center and the significant earnings of Denise from various ventures:

[15:30] Emily Simpson:
"...estimates that Richards makes more than $250,000 a month from brand deals, TV shows, and OnlyFans content."

The conversation critiques Aaron's financial declarations, pointing out seemingly exaggerated expenses that raise questions about his financial management and the validity of his claims for spousal support.

[17:12] Emily Simpson:
"He claims that he spends nearly $105,000 a month, including $18,000 on rent, $5,000 on repairs, $7,000 on child care, $10,000 on groceries, and $15,000 on eating out."

Shane humorously questions the practicality of such high expenditure levels, especially considering the family's actual needs:

[18:07] Shane:
"So he spends $2,500 a week on groceries and $3,000 on eating out. Almost $5,000 a month on food."

Emily and Shane further analyze the inconsistencies in Aaron's financial statements, suggesting potential manipulations to appear more financially strained than reality.

[19:38] Emily Simpson:
"Instead, he filed for divorce after six years. He's walking away, wanting spousal support, and taking his car, motorcycle, and tools with him."

Jason Corbett Murder Case Review

The episode then moves to a detailed examination of the Jason Corbett case, which is the central focus of the episode.

[07:36] Emily Simpson:
"There's a new Netflix movie called A Deadly American Marriage. We're going to talk about it. It's the case of Jason Corbett's murder."

Background of the Case:

Jason Corbett, an Irish-born businessman and father of two, experienced the tragic death of his first wife, Margaret ("Mags"), in 2006, officially attributed to an asthma attack. In 2008, he hired Molly Martins, an American au pair, to care for his young children, Jack and Sarah. The couple became engaged in 2010 and married in 2011, subsequently relocating to North Carolina.

[22:15] Emily Simpson:
"They had two children, Jack and Sarah. Jason and Molly got engaged, married, and moved to North Carolina in April 2011."

The Incident:

On August 2, 2015, an altercation occurred at their home that led to Jason Corbett's death. Molly's father, Thomas Martin, a former FBI agent, intervened in what was reported as a domestic dispute.

[23:31] Emily Simpson:
"Thomas Martin called a 911 dispatcher, saying he intervened in a fight between Molly and Jason. Authorities found Jason unresponsive, beaten with a baseball bat and a paving stone."

[25:02] Emily Simpson:
"Authorities found Jason's naked body in the master bedroom with blood splatters everywhere, indicating a violent struggle. The murder weapons, a baseball bat and a concrete paving brick, were found covered in Jason's blood and hair."

The initial court proceedings found Molly Martins and Thomas Martin guilty of second-degree murder in 2017. However, multiple factors led to the overturning of the conviction in 2020, including prejudicial errors and the exclusion of key testimonies.

Appeal and Sentencing:

In February 2020, the North Carolina Court of Appeals overturned the convictions, citing issues like the exclusion of the children’s initial testimonies and Molly’s covert recording devices used to document alleged abuse by Jason. A subsequent retrial was slated for June 2023, but Molly opted for a plea deal to avoid another trial, resulting in a guilty plea to voluntary manslaughter.

[37:54] Emily Simpson:
"Both were sentenced to 51 to 74 months in prison, effectively leaving them around 7 to 30 months remaining. On June 6, 2024, Molly and Tom were both released from prison."

Character Analysis and Case Complexity:

Emily and Shane delve into the intricate details of the case, debating the motivations and behaviors of the involved parties. Emily expresses skepticism about the validity of Molly's self-defense claims, especially considering the suspicious circumstances surrounding the quick transition from nanny to wife and the inconsistency of the children's testimonies.

[38:53] Emily Simpson:
"It feels very easy for her to manipulate the situation. She's very calm and cool."

Shane and Emily analyze the forensic evidence, questioning the immediate cleanup of the crime scene and the reliability of the children's recanted statements.

[27:47] Emily Simpson:
"She paid $5,500 to have the home professionally cleaned just hours after she was released from questioning. The cleaning removed blood traces, complicating forensic follow-up."

The hosts also discuss Molly’s obsession with the children and her efforts to adopt them formally, which she never achieved, possibly contributing to her extreme actions.

[40:56] Shane:
"She was truly obsessed with these children."

Reflections and Personal Insights

Throughout the episode, Emily and Shane offer personal reflections on the cases discussed, particularly on the emotional and ethical complexities surrounding divorce settlements and criminal convictions. Their analysis of the Jason Corbett case underscores the challenges in discerning truth and justice in high-stakes legal battles.

[37:07] Emily Simpson:
"For me, the way I understand closure is that there's some form of justice."

[54:00] Emily Simpson:
"It’s really hard for me to think, like, when people say that there's justice, I just, in my head, I think, 'No.' They’re still at a loss."

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In wrapping up, Emily encourages listeners to engage with the A Deadly American Marriage documentary to form their own opinions about the Jason Corbett case. The hosts express a need for further analysis and understanding of the motivations and actions of both Molly Martins and Thomas Martin, acknowledging that the case leaves more questions than answers.

[42:18] Emily Simpson:
"I think she was obsessed with the children and being their mother."

[43:00] Shane:
"Do you think that it was easy for him to settle that because now his wife just got a billion dollars from the sale of her cosmetic company?"

The episode concludes with a brief mention of other topics and upcoming content, maintaining the engaging and conversational tone that characterizes Two Ts In A Pod.

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Notable Quotes:

• Emily Simpson [03:29]:
  "So according to an article that was in Cosmopolitan, Justin Bieber and his former manager, Scooter Braun, have been locked in a financial battle since 2023."

• Shane [14:46]:
  "Well, my first question, when I saw that they'd been married for six years, the first thing that popped into my mind was why didn't he just stick it out for another four years?"

• Emily Simpson [29:44]:
  "He wants spousal support and he wants to take his car, his motorcycle, and his tools with him."

• Emily Simpson [37:54]:
  "Both were sentenced to 51 to 74 months in prison, effectively leaving them around 7 to 30 months remaining."

• Emily Simpson [38:53]:
  "It feels very easy for her to manipulate the situation. She's very calm and cool."

• Emily Simpson [40:56]:
  "She was truly obsessed with these children."

• Emily Simpson [54:00]:
  "It's really hard for me to think, like, when people say that there's justice, I just, in my head, I think, 'No.' They’re still at a loss."

---

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing listeners and non-listeners alike with a clear understanding of the complex legal and emotional landscapes explored by Emily Simpson and Shane. The inclusion of timestamped quotes offers direct insights into the hosts' perspectives, enriching the narrative and highlighting the critical moments of the conversation.

Transcript

[Emily Simpson]

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[Emily Simpson]

Hi, guys. Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I'll be your host today. Emily Simpson. And Shane. And Shane. Just Shane. First of all, we just want to do a couple little things that have been in the news lately that I thought was interesting. It's. First of all, we're going to talk about a little bit about Justin Bieber and the Scooter Braun settlement. I didn't know a lot about this or that there was anything going on. Did you?

[Unknown]

No.

[Emily Simpson]

So I just did a little research, read some articles. So I just want to give a brief overview of that if you've seen that in the news or you had questions about it. So according to an article that was in Cosmopolitan, Justin Bieber and his former manager, Scooter Braun have been locked in a financial battle since 2023. Scooter and his company, Hybe, covered the cost of Justin's world tour that he canceled back in 2022. Allegedly, he still owed 26 million to hype as Hybe. It's with a B, like B as in boy. He still owed 26 million to Hybe as of last week. In addition to this, Justin also reportedly owed Scooter Braun 11 million in unpaid commissions from when they work together. And per TMZ, that's on top of the 8.6 million in unpai commissions that Scooter agreed to forfeit. So back on July 10, TMZ reported that Justin and Scooter had reached a financial settlement in which Justin agreed to pay scooter the 26 million as well as 5.5 million for unpaid commissions totaling 31.5 million. My question to you is, do you think that it was easy for him to settle that because now his wife just got a billion dollars from the sale of her cosmetic company? I don't know.

[Unknown]

Maybe. I don't really know. So he's just paying the full amount?

[Emily Simpson]

No, he's not paying the full amount, but I mean, he owed 26 million and some 11 million in unpaid commissions and then another 8.6. But they settled on 31.5.

[Unknown]

Well, he might have settled because he had to. He canceled that concert like last minute. I remember. Yeah, so. And like, I don't think he gave a very good re. It's not like there was some publicly known reason like he was in a car wreck where he was ill or something. He just canceled.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. And obviously when you have a world tour like Justin Bieber, you invest millions and millions of dollars in it to set it up up front.

[Unknown]

Oh, absolutely.

[Emily Simpson]

So you're, you're footing the. So basically Scooter Braun and his production company footed the bill for this world tour.

[Unknown]

Bigger question is, is that his real name, Scooter?

[Emily Simpson]

Is that what's on your mind?

[Unknown]

Yes, yes, that is. Because I bet there's no Scooter in this world that said, when I'm older, there's going to be some pop star that owes me $30 million and he's going to pay up.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, Scooter doesn't go along with 30 million.

[Unknown]

No.

[Emily Simpson]

Neither Justin nor Scooter have publicly confirmed the settlement. News of the settlement comes after the Hollywood Reporter published a story in April claiming that Justin was 20 million in debt after canceling his tour and making a series of bad financial decisions at that time. When that article came out, representatives for Justin denied the claims, telling the Hollywood Reporter quot any source that is trying to sell you a story about alleged financial distress either doesn't understand the entertainment industry or more likely is trying to paint an unflattering portrait of Justin which bears no resemblance to reality. End quote. You know, I also, I've never been like a big Justin Bieber fan. I can name like two songs that he's saying. I feel like when I've seen him in the news lately, he's been a little disheveled and not looking quite his pop starish normally.

[Unknown]

When has he looked like a pop star?

[Emily Simpson]

When he was younger, he looked like a pop star. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Like 15, 20 years ago.

[Emily Simpson]

So you're saying now he has a wife and a. And a kid, so.

[Unknown]

And tats all over his body and.

[Emily Simpson]

He just, it's just he's got a dad bod and he's got.

[Unknown]

Yeah, Puff Daddy really did a number on him.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, that is true.

[Unknown]

They took away his innocence where they were connected.

[Emily Simpson]

This settlement came one day before Justin released his seventh studio album, Swag, which is his first album in four years. Hailey Bieber, Justin's wife, sold her cosmetics brand Road to Elf Beauty at the end of May for 1 billion. Some fans speculate it could have been to help with her husband's financial struggles. I don't know about that. I don't know.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it's like, like you have a little bit of debt, so you, you sell your billion dollar company. It doesn't work like that.

[Emily Simpson]

Like, hey, look, I know. Don't worry about it, Justin. I'll just sell my company for a billion.

[Unknown]

Sound like they had a garage sale to raise some money. I don't think that's the reason. I'm sure she sold it cuz it was a billion dollars business decision.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And she's probably like, my husband doesn't make good business decisions, so I'm gonna make one. I'm gonna sell this for a million dollars.

[Emily Simpson]

You know, it was crazy to me to think that a cosmetic company started by someone who's just kind of out there as an influencer. It's not like.

[Unknown]

Well, I had more than that. She had more strings to pull than that.

[Emily Simpson]

Wait, what do you mean?

[Unknown]

Isn't her dad a Baldwin?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, her dad's a ball.

[Unknown]

Yeah, but that gives you opportunity, connections, direction. People are going to come to you a little bit more and say, can I, you know, propose this business opportunity? She's gonna have more opportunities. I'm not saying it's wrong, but clearly she knows where to start more than I would.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I was just thinking if I started a cosmetic company.

[Unknown]

Mom's name. Is that her mom? Hilaria?

[Emily Simpson]

No, that's not her mom.

[Unknown]

Oh, oh, really? No, she has.

[Emily Simpson]

That's a different Baldwin. Oh, yeah, that's her uncle's wife.

[Unknown]

And it's like, oh, who's her dad? Her dad's not Alec?

[Emily Simpson]

No, her dad's not Alec Baldwin.

[Unknown]

I don't know.

[Emily Simpson]

Her dad's Stephen Baldwin.

[Unknown]

Oh, okay.

[Emily Simpson]

I believe. But Alec Baldwin would be her uncle. And it's hilarious.

[Unknown]

Whatever. It's hilarious. She makes that accent all the time and she's like doing weird stuff.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, she said she, she said it's because she's bilingual.

[Unknown]

So her accent gets like born and raised here. She has. Doesn't she have like some Spanish background?

[Emily Simpson]

I think, think possibly.

[Unknown]

But all a. I saw that video where she was like, how do you say cucumbers? It's like, yeah, cucumbers, like in your. That's your mother tongue. And then she'd shut them up in the red carpet and everything.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

That's why I don't walk the red carpet with you.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, yeah. It would be the same.

[Unknown]

We would have walk and you would shut me up. Sort of like our living room.

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[Emily Simpson]

All right, let's move on to Denise Richards and Aaron Phypers. Okay, first of all, Shane has been dying to talk about family law. So I have. You have. You've been saying we should find a family law case to talk About. So here's a little family law case. So Aaron Phipers filed his petition to divorce Denise Richards on Monday, July 7, after six years of marriage. What is your first question when you know it's been six years of marriage?

[Unknown]

That's my first question. Legal question or like a relationship question?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, my first question, when I saw that they'd been married for six years, the first thing that popped into my mind was why didn't he just stick it out for another four years, another four years and then file for divorce? Because In California, after 10 years of marriage, you can get. Or you can at least request permanent spousal support.

[Unknown]

Well, it's not permanent, but it's until death. Marriage or what?

[Emily Simpson]

What's cohabitating?

[Unknown]

No. Well, somebody else really tough to prove. Yeah. No, it's death or marriage. Pretty much.

[Emily Simpson]

Fibers.

[Unknown]

This is the same thing. Really?

[Emily Simpson]

Of course. I knew. I was waiting for you to say that. Vipers filed his petition in Los Angeles county superior court. He lists July 4th as the date of his separation from Richards. I thought this interesting, too, because I feel like on July 4th, do people just get. Drink too much, watch fireworks, and then decide to get divorced? Like, how does the July 4th, the separation like, they must have. There must have been an incident. I feel like the two do not share children, but Richards has two adult daughters with ex husband Charlie Shane. She is also the mother of a teenage daughter whom she adopted as an infant. Fibers is reportedly seeking spousal support from Richards, according to court documents. And his declaration. Because, you know, he has to.

[Unknown]

In the petition declaration.

[Emily Simpson]

In a financial declaration, FS claims that he makes no income since closing down his wellness center last year. I'm going to tell you, his wellness center probably didn't make a lot of income either. And estimates that Richards makes more than 250,000amonth from brand deals, TV shows, and only fans content. Vipers has asked to keep their assets and debts as separate property, including. I thought this was funny. Including his. He only wants three things. He just wants to walk away with three. Well, he wants spousal support.

[Unknown]

Should be ex spousal support. Why do they call it spousal support?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, I don't know, but he wants to walk away with not only spousal support, but he wants to keep his power tools, his motorcycle, and a sports car.

[Unknown]

Well, I. I mean, why would he want to give that up?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, he wouldn't, but I'm just saying it's like. It's like his douchebag collection.

[Unknown]

Well, you know.

[Emily Simpson]

You know, I just Want to keep my tools?

[Unknown]

He had nothing. He had. Yeah. He's on my muscle shirts.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Unknown]

And my Corvette hat.

[Emily Simpson]

Exactly. That's what I'm saying. It's like, he's like this. Wants to take his douchebag kit with him on the road.

[Unknown]

Now, what happened was he probably didn't have anything. And then his attorney's like, you gotta have something, dude. He's like, this looks like you look like a deadbeat if you got nothing.

[Emily Simpson]

He's like, I got. I got tools.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

According to the divorce petition, he claims that he spends nearly a hundred and 5, 000amonth, including. This is what I don't understand is this. He. When you fill out your financial declaration and you're getting a divorce, are you. You're talking about your current expenses, right? Yeah, but he's saying that he spends 18, 000 on rent, which is for both of them. 5,000 on repairs, whatever that is. And 7,000.

[Unknown]

I know. It's like, why don't you just use your power tools?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. It's 7,000 on child care, 10,000 on groceries. And whose child? I. Well, that's what. First of all, their children are all adult ages, so an attorney.

[Unknown]

Did he fill it out himself?

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know. That's. We need to. Look, I need to actually look at the petition and see if he's represented or if he just did this on his own. And 15,000 on eating out. Look, I have.

[Unknown]

How much. How much on groceries?

[Emily Simpson]

He says 10,000amonth on groceries.

[Unknown]

So he goes $2,500 a week on groceries. And he eats out at 3,000. At 5,000. Almost $5,000 a month. $4,000 a month. A week. Excuse me. A week.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

So he spends 6,000 plus dollars a week on food.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

While someone's watching his. Someone else's kids.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. And don't forget he uses his power tools.

[Unknown]

How much does he spend on baby oil? That's my question. Because that's where it looks like it's going.

[Emily Simpson]

According to a source who spoke with Us Weekly, Phipers has taken on many of the responsibilities at home.

[Unknown]

No, he hasn't.

[Emily Simpson]

He's. You know, it's.

[Unknown]

Right. It's because he spends all his day putting groceries away.

[Emily Simpson]

His financial declaration screams the opposite of that. Aaron gave up a lot to help Denise. Day to day. He has taken care of the kids, the pet to his parents, Denise and her work for only fans. And he's fixed up the houses they've lived in. Okay.

[Unknown]

That's where the tools Come in his rental house.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. Yeah, Right. I mean, why are they paying?

[Unknown]

No, the landlord should be doing that stuff.

[Emily Simpson]

They wouldn't be making ends meet without only fans. The source shares. It saved them financially.

[Unknown]

They'd be making ends meet if they didn't spend so much freaking money on groceries and eating out. Well, and child care for, you know, unknown own children for.

[Emily Simpson]

No. Well, they have three kids, but they're all adults. Well, they're.

[Unknown]

He probably pays his kids to watch her kids.

[Emily Simpson]

He doesn't have kids.

[Unknown]

I don't know. Then what's she doing with them?

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know. He. He. Here's the thing.

[Unknown]

He claims where I was. How did he get in this lifestyle? And I'm. I'm running around doing dishes this morning while you get your nails done.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know you. Would you like me to do only fans?

[Unknown]

No.

[Emily Simpson]

They wouldn't be making a spousal support. They wouldn't be making ends meet without only fans. The source shares it saved them financially and Denise has supported him financially, backed all of his endeavors, and it's been a drain on their finances. So basically, he filed for divorce after six years. He's walking away. He wants spousal support and he wants to take his car, his motorcycle, and his tools with him. And that's what I took from that.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Emily Simpson]

What do you think? Here's my question. Because you're a man, I feel like it's embarrassing for a man to ask for spousal support.

[Unknown]

The guy doesn't work, he doesn't have kids, he doesn't do anything. All of a sudden he's gonna be embarrassed.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, well, I mean, that's true.

[Unknown]

No, I'd be asking for it.

[Emily Simpson]

You would?

[Unknown]

Yeah. If you're making quarter of a million dollars a month on Only fans and apparently he's taking the photos for her or whatever. I want my fair share.

[Emily Simpson]

So if we got divorced and I made that kind of money on Only fans, you would ask for spousal support? Yes. Oh, my gosh.

[Unknown]

Am I right? Why would you? If I was making $250,000 on Only.

[Emily Simpson]

Fans, if you make250,000amonth on Only Fans, I'm not divorcing you. All right, we'll move on. And there is a new Netflix movie. It is called A Deadly American Marriage. We're going to talk about it. It is the case of Jason Corbett's murder. All right. Jason Corbett, he was an Irish born businessman and father of two. He was widowed in 2006 from his first wife, Margaret, goes by Mags Fitzpatrick. Mags was pronounced dead after allegedly suffering a severe asthma attack. She was a known as matic. They had two children that were just 2 years old and 12 weeks old at the time that she died. In 2008, Jason Corbett, the dad, hired an American au pair named Molly Martins to care for his children, Jack, who was 4 at the time, and Sarah 2. Jason and Molly then got engaged in February of 2010 and were married by 2011. Following their wedding, the couple, along with Jason's two children, Jack and Sarah, moved from Ireland to North Carolina in April of 2011. So he's Irish born. He was living in Ireland with his first wife, Mags. She dies of an asthma attack. He has two young children.

[Unknown]

He has allegedly.

[Emily Simpson]

No, this is all factual. He has two children.

[Unknown]

No, her. Her death.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. Asthma, yes.

[Unknown]

We don't know if it's true or not.

[Emily Simpson]

Anyway, they're in Ireland and he hires an American au pair, which is a nanny to come and she takes care of these two children. She comes in 2008 and they're engaged by 2010.

[Unknown]

Oh, so she wasn't. Have you seen the nanny? Is she a nanny from Miami?

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know. She was blonde and cute.

[Unknown]

It's all very, very suspicious. See, I don't think. Okay, keep going.

[Emily Simpson]

All right. Following their wedding, the couple, along with Jason's two children, Jack and Sarah, moved from Ireland to North Carolina. All right, so now we're in North Carolina. In Aug. 2 of 2015, Molly's father, Thomas Martin, called a 911 dispatcher and said he had intervened in a fight between Molly and Jason at their home. He's bleeding all over and I, I may have killed him, said Thomas, who previously led a 30 year career as an FBI agent. Upon arriving at the scene, authorities found Jason unresponsive and apparently beaten with a baseball bat and a paving stone. He quickly died from his injuries. Thomas and Molly told authorities that Jason's death resulted from a domestic disturbance. Thomas testified he found Jason strangling Molly and refusing to let go while threatening to kill her, leading the father and daughter to respond in self defense.

[Unknown]

He was choking her.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, let me go through this because I watched the documentary. So it's the middle of the night and the dad. So Molly Martin's parents are staying in their house. I think they're visiting. So they're like in the basement. The mom and the dad. The dad, Molly Martin's dad worked for the FBI for like 30 years.

[Unknown]

Okay, okay.

[Emily Simpson]

They're in the basement. Molly, the au pair who is now the wife.

[Unknown]

The new wife.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, the new wife and the husband are in bed. And apparently there was some altercation in the middle of the night where he became angry and he was strangling her. This is what they are alleging. The dad who is in the basement hears a struggle upstairs.

[Unknown]

Right? So he grabs a paver.

[Emily Simpson]

No, he grabbed the bat. Okay, so he grabs a bat, a baseball bat, and he comes into the bedroom. And Molly apparently just happened to have a brick on the side of like on her bed, stand next to the bed. She claims the kids were painting pavers. So she just happened to have one on her bedside table.

[Unknown]

Yeah, she just didn't put her pavers away yet.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, she didn't put her paver away. So when this dad comes into the room. Accord, this is according to their story because there's only two people alive. Right. He claims that he sees the husband, Jason Corbett, strangling Molly. He won't let go. And so the two of them beat him into oblivion with a baseball bat and paver.

[Unknown]

And so left alive are the new.

[Emily Simpson]

Wife and her father.

[Unknown]

His father. Her father.

[Emily Simpson]

Her father who worked for the FBI for 30 years. Now, I saw scenes, photographs from the crime scene in this documentary. There is blood.

[Unknown]

Oh, this is one with blood Everywhere. Huh?

[Emily Simpson]

Everywhere. They. This is when you claim self defense. Like I'm not a criminal law attorney, but I took criminal law.

[Unknown]

Well, I would think one hit on the head with a paver is enough.

[Emily Simpson]

Self defense is basically reasonable force. Or the same type of force that is being used against you. Like if someone's, you know, hitting you with a book.

[Unknown]

Well, it's enough to stop the imminent threat.

[Emily Simpson]

Right, but you can't use deadly force as self defense if someone isn't using deadly force against you.

[Unknown]

I would think choking is deadly force.

[Emily Simpson]

I would too. But when you have two people and one has a brick and one has a baseball bat, I feel like one whack with a baseball bat is going to get the guy to let go. If that's allegedly what was happening.

[Unknown]

I don't know. He might have to hit him twice. Three times.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, they hit him hundreds of times.

[Unknown]

They might have been scared out of their minds and they just kept beating him until he wouldn't move. We don't know. No. Here's the thing that I was getting at earlier. The first wife's murder is now suspic or. Excuse me, death passing is suspicious. She dies as asthma.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes.

[Unknown]

And then he's found choking his new wife. Well, think about it.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I have thought about it, but you also have to realize that Molly Martens and her dad are the only two people that are alive that can say what happened that evening. Investigators arrived to find Jason's naked body sprawled in the master bedroom, surrounded by extensive blood splatters on the floors, walls, doors, bed, hallway, and even bathroom surfaces, indicating a violent struggle occurred. Expert Stuart James identified multiple impact spatter zones on the quilt inside the mattress box spring, suggesting Jason took initial blows while still in bed.

[Unknown]

So is it leading towards the. Maybe it was just a flat out murder. Like he was in bed, laying down, and then was beaten along walls at.

[Emily Simpson]

Varying heights, indicating strikes as he fell and moved through the room. Cast off patterns on a vacuum cleaner. And Jason's boxer shorts showed blood flung off swinging weapons at different angles. A baseball bat and a concrete paving brick, both found covered in Jason's blood and hair, were established as the murder weapon. Molly Martin's reportedly spent $5,500 to have the home professionally cleaned just hours after she was released from questioning. The cleaning removed blood traces, which complicated forensic follow up at the house.

[Unknown]

I don't know why they preserve the scene.

[Emily Simpson]

That's that. See, I was just gonna ask that. That doesn't make any sense. You come up on this scene where someone's been murdered and there's a baseball bat and a paver as weapons and there's blood splatter everywhere. You don't know exactly what happened, but she paid 50, $500 the next day to clean it all up.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

I mean, did they get all the photos and. And evidence that they needed in there initial?

[Unknown]

I don't know. I mean, it doesn't sound like it, but. I don't know.

[Emily Simpson]

It doesn't seem to me because first of all, when there's a 911 call about a murder, are they going to immediately send like these forensic specialists at that time, they're just going to send police and a coroner and then they're probably going to come back and investigate.

[Unknown]

Yeah, but then they might. Yeah, they might call homicide team or something.

[Emily Simpson]

Right, Like a specialized forensic.

[Unknown]

Yeah, because clearly it's foul play.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Unknown]

So.

[Emily Simpson]

But I mean, even we. What we learned from just going through Karen Reed was that there were multiple times that there was these specialized forensic teams that came in and looked for specific things.

[Unknown]

I bet. Look at her call log. I bet she called the boss. Boston Police Department said, how do I clean up this crime scene? And I need to rehome my dog. What do I do?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, how do I Get rid of this caver. Molly was also working diligently to get Jason's body cremated before Jason's sister, Tracy lynch, and her husband, David lynch, had a chance to examine the body now. So Jason, the deceased, his family is all in Ireland. But Molly was unsuccessful, and Tracy was able to see firsthand what was done to her brother. Now we get to August 6th of 2015. Jack and Sarah Corbett. These are the two children. Okay. They are brought to the Dragonfly Child Advocacy center for questioning. Jack, they're 10 and 8. At the time, Jack, age 10, told social workers he had seen Jason get angry with Molly and that Jason had physically hurt her, saying that he witnessed it firsthand. Sarah, who was age 8, echoed this, saying their father yelled and hurt Molly. However, when probed, she admitted it wasn't based on a direct observation, but rather things she heard from her mom. Now, remember, this is not her biological mom. Molly Martins is the nanny. The nanny who married the dad who became a stepmom.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

Sarah also said that she used the code words galaxy and peacock with Molly's mother to signal when Jason became angry.

[Unknown]

Peacock.

[Emily Simpson]

You know, I saw them say that when they were.

[Unknown]

Is that, like, safe words or something?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I think they were words that. So that if she wanted to call and tell someone there was something going on, they could say peacock. Instead of saying, dad's being angry, and he overheard it. It was like a code word to say, like, there was trouble at the house.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Emily Simpson]

Then the children rescinded their statements. So this is where it gets complicated. When I was first watching this documentary, I was like, okay, it seems pretty straightforward. She marries him. She marries him quickly. She becomes a stepmom.

[Unknown]

She.

[Emily Simpson]

She's really into these kids lives. Like, she does everything for them. She clearly wants to be their mom. She wants to adopt them. I know she wants to adopt them, but he won't. I think he, like, maybe strings her along and is like, well, maybe you can adopt them. But he never actually allows her to adopt the children, so she never formally adopts them.

[Unknown]

Why. Why is he controlling over this? I wonder.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't. I mean, I don't know. Maybe he. Maybe after he married her, maybe there were some red flags. I don't know. I mean, they didn't date that long.

[Unknown]

Yeah. He's like, I have plans to kill you, so I don't need to go through this adoption process. You know, what a. Another way to ask for, like, code for help. What is. Like, if you're. If there's a burglar, there or someone there. And they say, call. Yeah, like if, if you had. If. If someone's holding me hostage. And they say, get Emily Simpson down here. We're really upset with her LA in last week's episode. We want to attack her.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, this is actually for you.

[Unknown]

I would call you and say, I need you to come home, dear, and can you bring me the Beatles fifth album?

[Emily Simpson]

Why? The Beatles fifth album.

[Unknown]

And then. And I'll say, I need to borrow it. Can you bring it home with you or pick it up on your way home?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Well, then the fifth album's name is Help. Oh, yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

Doesn't that sound suspicious? If you're in front of kidnappers and you're telling me to bring the Beatles fifth album. You don't think they're gonna find that strange?

[Unknown]

It. I don't think they're savvy enough. They're not Beatles fans.

[Emily Simpson]

That sounds like a normal conversation.

[Unknown]

I learned that on a CHiPs episode when I was a little kid and I've been waiting to use that ever since.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, now you have had the opportunity.

[Unknown]

No, I didn't. No, I didn't get to use it.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, you mean you want to actually.

[Unknown]

Yes. Oh, yes.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, my goodness. All right. Once Tracy and David lynch were given custody of the children. This is his sister and his brother in law that lives in Ireland. They were given custody of the children. She wanted custody of the kids, but they were given custody. But she never adopted them formally. So they went to the aunt and the uncle. Per Jason's will, they. They traveled back to Ireland in August of 2015. Within days of their return, they began to recant the statements they made at the Dragonfly center, telling their aunt Tracy that they had been coached by Molly to say their father was abusive in a Skype interview in 2016. So Jack is the oldest son. And in this documentary, there's a lot of interviews with him and he's very emotional and he claims that he was coached to say these things, that he actually thought his dad was a great dad and that he had a very close relationship with his dad, but he also wanted to, I don't know, like he was close with Molly because that's the only mom he really knew. And so he admits. So he wanted to do the Skype interview and he wants to admit that, quote, I didn't tell the truth, that Dragonfly Molly made me lie. Sarah, the daughter similarly discussed or disclosed in diary entries that she was instructed by Molly on what to say. So then we get to the trial in 2017. The defense sought to include Jack and Sarah's statements. However, the court excluded them, citing a lack of personal knowledge and the fact that they'd been recanted, classifying them as unreliable hearsay. Molly had been accused of lying to friends and family, I. E. Claiming she gave birth to Sarah, which helped reinforce this manipulation claim. So In August of 2017, Molly Martens and Tom Martins were found guilty of second degree murder in Jason Corbett's death by a jury in the Davidson County Superior Court. I don't know. I. This. This is one of those cases where, when I was watching it in the beginning, it seemed very straightforward to me. Like, they got married. She wanted to adopt the kids. He was probably abusive to her. Her dad jumped in and intervened. They beat him up. But then these kids. And then these kids say, oh, yeah, he was abusive towards her, corroborating it. But then they recant later, and they're like, we didn't want to say that. We don't really believe that. We were coached by her. So I had a hard time actually deciphering who was guilty, who was at fault, whether he was aggressive that night or not in February of 2020. So we're talking about three years later. The North Carolina Court of Appeals overturned Molly and Thomas Martin's 2017 conviction, citing prejudicial errors. Molly and Tom's lawyers specifically referenced the exclusion of Jack and Sarah's Dragonfly interviews, the hidden recording devices Molly left throughout the house to document Jason's alleged abuse, and their claim that the death of Jason's first wife was due to strangulation, not an asthma attack. So they get out on appeal because the defense said that these things were not allowed in the first trial. First of all, they didn't allow those interviews at that Dragonfly place with the little kids because they said. Because the kids recanted them. So they were like, what's right? What's the. What's the truth here? They're saying that it was, and now they're saying that it wasn't. How do you rely on those initial statements that were made, but those were not used in the first trial? Also in this documentary, you can tell she leaves recording devices around. But here's the thing with the recording devices, and let me know what you think about this. She know. She knows there's a recording device in the kitchen. And I saw a scene of this. What was the purpose of her recording device? Because she was getting evidence that he's aggressive or abusive. So she had a recording device in the kitchen.

[Unknown]

Oh, okay.

[Emily Simpson]

She knows it's recording.

[Unknown]

Huh.

[Emily Simpson]

So I'm saying it was very. To me, I'm watching it, and it feels very easy for her to manipulate the situation. She's very calm and cool.

[Unknown]

Right, right, right. She. She put on her poker face.

[Emily Simpson]

Right?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know. He's, like, upset. He came home from work and he's upset about the dinner or soup or something. I don't know. I didn't think it was aggressive or overly abusive or anything. I thought maybe he was just being kind of a jerk, but I. I don't know if that's evidence that this man, you know, would strangle his wife.

[Unknown]

If I acted that way. Would you say jerk or abusive?

[Emily Simpson]

I would say jerk. I wouldn't say it was abusive, but I also feel as if it's. It's a setup. She's recording. She knows it's recording. She puts it in the kitchen. He comes home from work, he's probably tired from the day. He's being. He's being crappy. He's not being great.

[Unknown]

No. Yeah. It's not. It wasn't like, organic interaction unknown to either party, that is being recorded.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Unknown]

Clearly, she's setting him up.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. And I'm. I don't know. Maybe he comes home from work every day irritated. Maybe he has bad days at work and he comes home, he's irritated. She knows he's going to be irritated. She puts a recording device in the kitchen. She stays cool and calm.

[Unknown]

Maybe she is cool and calm.

[Emily Simpson]

She hit him with a paver in the head until his brain matter was.

[Unknown]

Well, she lost it. I don't know. All I know is his first wife died of asthma, and that's suspicious.

[Emily Simpson]

You can't get past the asthma, can you?

[Unknown]

No.

[Emily Simpson]

All right. And the North Carolina Supreme Court, in a 4 to 3 vote, affirmed the decision, officially vacating the murder convictions and remanding for a new trial. So a new retrial was initially scheduled to begin on June 26th of 2023. However, to avoid another trial, Molly pleaded no contest. And Tom, this is her dad, pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter per a negotiated plea deal. Both were sentenced to 51 to 74 months in prison. You thought I was gonna say years.

[Unknown]

Well, still, that's still a lot.

[Emily Simpson]

To 74 months in prison with credit for the 44 months already served, effectively leaving them around 7 to 30 months remaining. In June 6th of 2024, Molly and Tom were both released from prison. A Deadly American Marriage was released on Netflix with interviews from Molly, Tom, Jack, Sarah, Tracy and David. In this documentary, we witnessed Jack and Sarah prepare for the retrial and recount their personal experiences of manipulation at the hands of Molly. Molly and her dad Tom, are adamant that it was an act of self defense. But Jason's family and children are not convinced and believe that he was murdered in cold blood. So I don't know. It's very interesting. I want you guys to watch it and tell me what you think, because I was still at the end of it, I was still conflicted whether I felt as if he was so aggressive that night that they really needed to use a baseball bat and a brick paver to his head.

[Unknown]

So she had cameras recording prior to all this?

[Emily Simpson]

It wasn't cameras. It was recordings. It was audio recordings.

[Unknown]

Audio.

[Emily Simpson]

It was audio recordings. But to me, I felt as if she was doing that because she was setting up.

[Unknown]

Right. No, I know.

[Emily Simpson]

You know, she's setting up her. Her evidence.

[Unknown]

Yeah, it was clearly in her favor.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, it was premeditated. It's premeditated that she's getting, you know, this evidence in order that she wants to use.

[Unknown]

She's building a case.

[Emily Simpson]

She's building a case. She wanted to adopt these children. He would never formally allow her to adopt them. I think she was really mad about that because I think she had plans of, like, divorcing him and taking the kids. I think she was obsessed with the kids. That's my takeaway. I don't know.

[Unknown]

So she killed the first wife?

[Emily Simpson]

No, she didn't know the first wife.

[Unknown]

But I'm saying, oh, she wasn't the. She wasn't the nanny.

[Emily Simpson]

She was the nanny after the first wife died. Remember, they didn't have a nanny. He was married, and it was a mom and a dad.

[Unknown]

Okay, I mixed up that part.

[Emily Simpson]

I think they had. No, they had young kids together. The first wife dies, they're in Ireland, right?

[Unknown]

Then he goes. Then he hires the name.

[Emily Simpson]

He hires the nanny to help take care of the kids, and then he.

[Unknown]

Quickly marries the nanny.

[Emily Simpson]

Quickly marries the nanny. But the nanny becomes, in my opinion, based upon what I watched and what I saw in the interviews and everything, I felt as if. If Molly Martens was obsessed with these children, I felt as if she was obsessed with being their mom, them being hers. As I said earlier, she had even lied to other friends and family about giving birth to them.

[Unknown]

Oh, wow. Like, that's like that movie Rock the Cradle.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. Like, I mean, I remember where, like.

[Unknown]

The mom would come home, be like, how come my baby's not drinking milk? Because like, she was breastfeeding. She was breastfeeding.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. That's very Molly Martin's. Like, my takeaway was that she was so obsessed with these children and that he would not allow her to legally and formally adopt them. So she knew if there was a divorce or. Or whatever.

[Unknown]

Did he have money or did he have anything, any type of financial appeal that maybe she thought she would take the kids and the money.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't think it had to do with money.

[Unknown]

She was truly obsessed with two kids.

[Emily Simpson]

I think she was truly obsessed with the children and being their mother.

[Unknown]

Was she not able to have her own kids? Do we know anything like that?

[Emily Simpson]

I. You know, I don't know if she was able to have her own children. I don't. I feel as if when she was the nanny for these kids, they were so young and they didn't have a mother at all, that she just became the mother figure.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Emily Simpson]

And she.

[Unknown]

So as far as she was concerned, it was probably since. Since.

[Emily Simpson]

And I believe they called her mom, like, quickly after they were married, they said.

[Unknown]

Because that's all they knew.

[Emily Simpson]

That's all they knew. Yeah. And I think she was so obsessed with these children that. I don't know, my takeaway is, especially since there was a brick and a bat.

[Unknown]

Well, you're obsessed with our children. Should I worry?

[Emily Simpson]

I am obsessed with our children, yes.

[Unknown]

Should I worry?

[Emily Simpson]

No, because I have legal rights to them. She had no legal rights to the children. That's what made me think. And also her. Her trail of evidence that she was setting up and the recordings before that incident. And the dad was an FBI. He worked for the FBI for 30 years. He knows what to say and what to do. Interrogations, and he knows how to answer the question.

[Unknown]

Well, they should do it. Test on the paver. Was. Was the paver. Was the paver really part of that property?

[Emily Simpson]

No, they were.

[Unknown]

The dad, bring the paper.

[Emily Simpson]

No, the kids. The kids had an art project. You know how you can paint?

[Unknown]

Yeah, I know, but did they really have that?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, there were. There were other pavers that were painted.

[Unknown]

Oh, maybe she set that up. Maybe she went and bought pavers that. Hey, kids, we're gonna paint some pavers. The kids were like, well, there's one extra. Oh, yeah, don't worry about that.

[Emily Simpson]

I'm gonna leave it by my bed.

[Unknown]

That's mine. I'll paint it later. Yeah, I'm gonna paint it red later.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. I'm telling you, it is not. I watched this documentary and it left me with more questions than answers. I found her very manipulative. I the dad. Her dad worked for the FBI. I don't know if I see the husband as aggressive the way she explains it. She's building a case. She's recording him when he doesn't know it. The kids are recanting and saying that she manipulated them and told them what to say. I don't know, I just. I had a hard time with her. So. Anyway, if you get the opportunity, watch it on Netflix. DM me. Tell me what you think because I really it's called a Deadly American Marriage.

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Honestly, honestly, honestly.

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All right, I wanted to come back to. We've talked about last time I believe we talked about Brian Coburger.

[Unknown]

Okay, now we're on the Coburger.

[Emily Simpson]

Now we're moving on to CO Burger. Just a little bit here at the end. I want to go into that just because he did take a plea deal. But there's also just to tell you guys, if you like to watch all this true crime stuff like I do, there's a new documentary. It's called One Night in Idaho. It's a new Coburger documentary and it came out on July 11th and it's on prime if you guys would like to watch it. So Brian Coburger, we know, has formally confessed in writing to the 2022 Idaho murders. And he did not provide any explanation for the murders. There's no motive in there whatsoever. However, this is what I think is interesting. So there's a new book coming out and I pre ordered it and it's written by an investigative journalist who has been covering the stories from day one in Idaho. And also Scott Patterson, who we know is. Is a huge fixed author. I mean he's very famous. Scott Patterson? Yeah.

[Unknown]

What is he, what is he written?

[Emily Simpson]

I knew you were gonna ask me that. I have no idea.

[Unknown]

Well, he said he's very famous.

[Emily Simpson]

He is.

[Unknown]

So what has he written?

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know. I haven't read any of his books. He's famous. But apparently, and I thought this was. Is very interesting. Brian Coburger had a fascination with a serial killer named Elliot Roger. Elliot Roger has since become a figure in the incel or involuntary celibates movement. I had never heard of this either. Have you ever heard of this?

[Unknown]

Involuntary celibacy.

[Emily Simpson]

Involuntary celibacy.

[Unknown]

What do you do, wear like a padlock, underwear or something?

[Emily Simpson]

No. It's because you're rejected. So so to speak, you're. You're found. You're not found. Appealing. By women.

[Unknown]

Oh, involuntary like. No one's forcing you to be celibate.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Unknown]

But based on your unfortunate circumstances, you cannot break celibacy.

[Emily Simpson]

Right, Got it. So Co Burger took a class about serial killers and their motives, including that of Elliot Roger, who was a 20 impetus. No, who was a 22 year old virgin who was. Who fatally stabbed or shot six people and injured 14 in East La Vista, California before killing himself in May of 2014. Okay, first of all, I've never heard of this guy. But I find this really interesting. He had posted a video online about his plan to kill his revenge for being rejected by women. In this video he says, I'm 22 years old and I'm still a virgin. I've never even kissed a girl. I don't know why you girls aren't attracted to me, but I will punish you all for it. It's an injustice, a crime. Because I don't know what you don't see in me. I'm the perfect guy and yet you throw yourselves at these obnoxious men instead of me, the supreme Gentleman. I will punish all of you for it. So then he goes on to murder six people based upon this anger that he has because he is a 22 year old virgin and women are not interested in him.

[Unknown]

Wow.

[Emily Simpson]

Christine Cameron, who was an administrator, how'd.

[Unknown]

That turn out for him?

[Emily Simpson]

He killed himself in May of 2017.

[Unknown]

Did he die a virgin?

[Emily Simpson]

Clearly he died a virgin. Christine Cameron, who is an administrator of the University of Idaho murders Facebook page said that shortly after the murders were conducted, a Facebook user named Papa Roger, remember this guy's name is Elliot Roger and he's dead. Began leaving disturbing messages and their discussion group Cameron said, after Brian Coburger is arrested, I start thinking, okay, Papa Roger, Elliot Roger. If you listen to some of the manifestos of Elliot Roger, he talks about hating all the girls from Alpha Phi, which is the same sorority that Kaylee Gonsalves this was in.

[Unknown]

You know, I've never once thought to kill women that said no to me.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, you're not a virgin.

[Unknown]

Well, no, but I mean like if you ask them on a day and they say no, it's not My first thought isn't, well, then you must die. Yeah, Yeah, I mean, maybe more like, what am I doing wrong?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Let me get go to the self help section at the Barnes and Noble.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Unknown]

Let me figure it out.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, maybe I was also thinking maybe that's why women rejected him so much, because I feel like maybe he gave off, off some type of strange murder vibes, like serial killer vibe.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Emily Simpson]

So I mean there's that. All right, so we know Brian Coburger took the plea deal to avoid the death penalty. So what are your. Are you. You know, I've read a little bit more about this, about the plea deal. One, he did sign a confession, but there's no motive in the confession. So I do there is that sense of not having closure.

[Unknown]

I, I agree with that. And I don't know what it's like, so I Don't want to put myself in their shoes and act like I know, but it's like, he's crazy. He probably couldn't get the women and so he killed them. I mean, I think that's pretty straightforward.

[Emily Simpson]

So you're saying in your mind, it's not like you would need a motive to feel closure. Because we were talking about someone who's clearly a psychopath and it's.

[Unknown]

Well, I'll be honest. If that ever happened to me, I don't know if I'd ever get closure. Like, oh, now I'm at peace. Peace. I would just maybe would put it to rest, like, the questions, but it would. I. That's why I never said. When people say, oh, now they can have closure. Which, again, no disrespect to parents who lose their children, but it's like, the kid's still dead. That would be tough to move on and act like closure. Well, I don't know if I'd ever have closure. I might. I might be able to move on a little bit here and there or whatever, but I don't know if I'd be, like, at peace, especially just because of emotion.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I think when it. To me, the way I understand closure in this sense is that there's some form of justice.

[Unknown]

Yeah. That's another thing I have a problem with, because is it just. Okay, so he. If he goes. If he gets the death penalty, which I know he's not, but if he gets the death penalty, is that justice in the sense? Like. Because I see justice as like, okay, now everything's equal. So if they. Yeah, well, no, no, like. Like you robbed me of 50 bucks and. And now you gave me my 50 bucks back. Justice, like, we're back to zero even. But, like, when your child. When there's a murder in my average child and they're dead, it's just. It's really hard for me to think, like, when. When people say that. Sorry, I know I'm rambling, but when people say, oh, there's justice, I just. In back my head, I think. No. That they're still at a loss.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, I understand that. But if you. If something happened to your child or someone in your family and if there was no repercussion, like if, let's say your child's murdered and you never find the murderer, you don't feel like you would. You would die without any closure of knowing who it was or what happened.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

Or any sense.

[Unknown]

No, you're right.

[Emily Simpson]

When I say justice, that there's.

[Unknown]

There's I just. I guess I just. I don't refer to as justice because it's still unfortunate. That's. That's what I've always thought. It's just my thoughts.

[Emily Simpson]

I know, but I. I think, think. I think the idea of closure here is that he receives punishment for his crime as opposed to. That's. That's how you put the period on the.

[Unknown]

Yeah, but there's not enough punishment that.

[Emily Simpson]

These parents have had to go through. And how you finally end it is that there's some form that he. That they can maybe find some peace knowing that he's, you know, received the death penalty and that he has to go to sleep in a cell every night with the anticipation that someday he's going to. To die by lethal injection or, you know, firing squad.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I don't know. But that's just. It's just a hard pill for me to swallow. That's all.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, the irony is, is that he clearly took a plea deal to avoid the death penalty when he had no problem taking the lives of four people.

[Unknown]

Right. And. And then it's like, well, why should you grant him that. That The. The privilege of choosing whether he's entitled to the death penalty or not? Right.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Unknown]

I would go for the death penalty. I'd be like, no, we're gonna go for it. But I understand, though, the parents that think, no, we want to be done with and just, you know, go back to our lives.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, that the whole. That's very divided between the families because there's four. And I do believe that. I think it's split. There's. I think there's two that are happy to just be done with it. You took the plea deal, and I get that.

[Unknown]

And I get the other way, too. I get it both ways.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. But they're both. Neither one of them are wrong in their thinking. It's just. That's their takeaway and how they feel. Anyway, when I get the book, I'm gonna read it, so I'll let you all know. I do think it's interesting that maybe he carried out a manifesto that had to do with this earlier serial killer named Elliot Rogers. So if you guys want to look more into that, you can look that up and read more about it. And anyway, that is the end of the show for today. Thank you so much for listening. If you have other cases that are of interest that you want to DM me about, I appreciate it. It. You know, I have gotten multitudes of DMS from you guys asking about us covering the case. In Australia about the woman that laced like a beef Wellington with poisonous mushrooms and, and killed some of her family members with poisonous mushrooms. She was actually, when I was in Paris last week, she was sentenced and.

[Unknown]

She went to the. To the extent of making beef Wellington. I believe it was kind of just like.

[Emily Simpson]

No, I think it was Mac and cheese. No, I think it was like beef Wellington or something like that. Like that. Anyway, I know it's very interesting and I've had tons of you send DM saying can you guys please cover that and maybe we will. I need to think about it a little bit more. The problem is with that is that it happened in Australia and a lot of times when we go through these cases, we like to talk about legal, you know, just a lot of legal things. And I, you know, I don't know law.

[Unknown]

Well, we could talk about it like it had it been in America, you know.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, that's true too. We could make comparisons. So anyway, that's still in America.

[Unknown]

It wouldn't be be beef Wellington.

[Emily Simpson]

No, it would not be.

[Unknown]

It would be like a burger or something. Or a hamburger.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, it'd be in and out. But anyway, so thank you for that. If there's any other cases of interest that are in the news or that you find interesting, please let me know and thank you for listening.

[Unknown]

Thanks.

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See details@t mobile.com this is an iHeart podcast.