Legally Brunette: Karen Read

Summary

Podcast Summary: Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge

Title: Legally Brunette: Karen Reed
Release Date: February 19, 2025
Host/Authors: Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge
Producer: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In this episode of Two Ts In A Pod, Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge delve into the intricacies of high-profile legal cases surrounding celebrities, offering their unique insights and engaging discussions. This episode, titled "Legally Brunette: Karen Reed", primarily focuses on the ongoing legal battles involving Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, alongside updates on the Karen Reed case and a brief mention of the Menendez case.

Karen Reed Case Update

Karen Reed, currently facing charges related to the death of her boyfriend, Boston Police Officer John O'Keefe, is set for a retrial on April 1st after her initial trial ended in a hung jury.

Emily Simpson provides a detailed background of the case:

• Background: Karen Reed, aged 44, was in a two-year relationship with John O'Keefe, a 16-year veteran of the Boston Police Department.
• Incident Details: On January 29, 2022, after a night out in Aruba, Reed claims she dropped O'Keefe off at an afterparty at the home of Brian Albert, a retired Boston sergeant. The following morning, she discovered his body.

Key Charges:

• Manslaughter
• Motor Vehicle Homicide
• Leaving the Scene of a Deadly Crash

Notable Discussion Points:

• Prosecution's Claim: Reed allegedly backed her Lexus SUV into O'Keefe, causing fatal blunt force trauma, and then left him at the scene.
• Defense's Argument: Reed's lawyers propose that O'Keefe was attacked by a family dog during the party, suggesting alternative causes for his injuries. They also accuse the lead investigator, Trooper Michael Proctor, of bias and a conflict of interest due to his relationship with the homeowner, Brian Albert.

Notable Quotes:

• Emily Simpson (04:00): "They have a hearing coming up on March 20th and the 21st."
• Shane Simpson (05:07): "They're gonna wear their prison uniform to avoid jury prejudice."

Retrial Concerns:

• Double Jeopardy Argument: Karen Reed's attorney, Martin Weinberg, argues that retrying her on charges where the jury was unanimous on her innocence constitutes double jeopardy. However, the court ruled she can be retried on all charges.

Notable Quotes:

• Emily Simpson (61:18): "She's going to go back to trial again on April 1."
• Shane Simpson (61:05): "If they found her guilty on certain charges and not guilty on others, they would throw it all out and have to start all over."

Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni Legal Dispute

The podcast extensively covers the defamation lawsuit between Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, detailing the ongoing legal maneuvers and public relations battles.

Key Developments:

• Subpoenas Issued: Blake Lively's lawyers have sent subpoenas to Justin Baldoni's phone carriers, including AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile, seeking records related to alleged smear campaigns against her.
• Public Relations Warfare: Both parties are engaged in a battle to sway public opinion, with Baldoni's team releasing a website showcasing text messages that they claim exonerate him and expose Lively's actions.

Notable Discussion Points:

• Transparency vs. Defamation: Baldoni's attorney, Brian Friedman, emphasizes transparency, releasing communication logs to demonstrate his innocence, while Lively's side counters by seeking more detailed records to uncover potential misconduct.
• Potential Witnesses: Discussions speculate on the possibility of deposing high-profile individuals like Taylor Swift, who was allegedly present during key events related to the case.

Notable Quotes:

• Shane Simpson (09:35): "Team Baldoni."
• Emily Simpson (23:38): "Our hands are clean. Here's everything, we're not hiding anything."

Menendez Case Brief Update

A brief update is provided on the Menendez case, where two prosecutors, Brock Lunsford and Nancy Hebron, have filed notices of claim alleging retaliation, defamation, and discrimination by DA Hawkman and Deputy District Attorney John Lewin. They sought the resentencing of Eric and Lyall Menendez for their 1989 murders, which has led to internal conflicts within the LA County prosecution team.

Notable Quotes:

• Emily Simpson (02:51): "If you guys have not heard, they will be attending this hearing in person, which will be the first time in 30 years that they've been seen in public."
• Shane Simpson (06:11): "My gut feeling is that he's not going to be very pro resentencing."

Legal Procedures and Insights

The hosts explore various legal procedures relevant to the cases discussed:

• Depositions: Detailed explanations of how depositions work, their significance in building a case, and the strategic maneuvers lawyers employ during these processes.

Notable Quotes:

• Shane Simpson (32:56): "They can ask all kinds of questions about her relationship with Taylor Swift and then if she says the wrong thing, they might be able to subpoena her phone records."
• Emily Simpson (34:19): "It would be on camera, knowing Brian Friedman and his concept of transparency."

Final Thoughts and Future Episodes

Emily Simpson and Shane Simpson conclude the episode by highlighting the complexity and high stakes of the cases discussed. They express their commitment to providing ongoing coverage and updates, especially as the Karen Reed retrial approaches.

Notable Quotes:

• Emily Simpson (63:58): "We will follow the Karen Reed trial, which I think will be really interesting."
• Shane Simpson (60:43): "I know that it's all or nothing, but it's so flippant, and I don't like that."

Conclusion

This episode offers a comprehensive analysis of significant legal battles involving celebrities, focusing on the Karen Reed retrial and the Blake Lively-Justin Baldoni dispute. Teddi and Tamra provide insightful commentary, backed by detailed case information and strategic legal discussions, making it a valuable listen for those interested in the intersection of fame and the legal system.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Emily Simpson (04:00): "They have a hearing coming up on March 20th and the 21st."
• Shane Simpson (05:07): "They're gonna wear their prison uniform to avoid jury prejudice."
• Emily Simpson (61:18): "She's going to go back to trial again on April 1."
• Shane Simpson (61:05): "If they found her guilty on certain charges and not guilty on others, they would throw it all out and have to start all over."
• Shane Simpson (09:35): "Team Baldoni."
• Emily Simpson (23:38): "Our hands are clean. Here's everything, we're not hiding anything."
• Emily Simpson (02:51): "If you guys have not heard, they will be attending this hearing in person, which will be the first time in 30 years that they've been seen in public."
• Shane Simpson (06:11): "My gut feeling is that he's not going to be very pro resentencing."
• Shane Simpson (32:56): "They can ask all kinds of questions about her relationship with Taylor Swift and then if she says the wrong thing, they might be able to subpoena her phone records."
• Emily Simpson (34:19): "It would be on camera, knowing Brian Friedman and his concept of transparency."
• Emily Simpson (63:58): "We will follow the Karen Reed trial, which I think will be really interesting."
• Shane Simpson (60:43): "I know that it's all or nothing, but it's so flippant, and I don't like that."

Transcript

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[Shane Simpson]

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[Arturo Castro]

Hi, I'm Arturo Castro and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and Narcos and Roadhouse. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly guys, I don't feel the space is crowded. Get ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians. People like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, and Joseph Gordon Levitt.

[Shane Simpson]

I love storytelling and I love you. So I can't wait.

[Arturo Castro]

Listen and subscribe to Greatest escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Cameron Mitchell]

This is John Cameron Mitchell and my new fiction podcast series, Cancell island stars Holly Hunter as Karen, a wellness influencer who launches a rehab for the recently cancelled in the future we will all be canceled for 15 minutes, but don't worry, we'll take you from broke to woke or your money back. Cancellation Island's revolutionary rehab therapies like bad touch football, anti racism spin class, and mandatory Ayahuasca ceremonies are designed to force the council to confront their worst impulses. But everything starts to fall apart when people start disappearing.

[Shane Simpson]

Karen, where have you brought us?

[John Cameron Mitchell]

Cancellation island, where a second chance might just be your last. Listen to Cancellation island on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Emily Simpson]

Hi guys. Welcome to Legally Brunette. I will be your host today, Emily Simpson and my co host, Shane Simpson. All right, so first of all, we're gonna go to just a little bit of a brief update on the Menendez case. So there were two prosecutors, Brock Lunsford and Nancy the, who filed notices of claim on Monday that they intend to sue DA Hawkman and the Deputy District Attorney John Lewin for retaliation, defamation and discrimination. So these two prosecutors said that they made a presentation last October arguing that Eric and Lyall Menendez should be re sentenced in their 1989 murders of their parents, Jose and Kitty, because their imprisonment no longer served the interest of justice. Some high ranking LA county prosecutors disagreed with the move, including their supervisor. So that's, this is according to their notice of claim. Hawkman announced his intention to review the decision after handily defeating Gascon last November. So as we know, they have, they have a hearing coming up on March 20th and the 21st.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

So these two DAs have been big supporters of them being re sentenced and they're saying that now Hawkman has come in and that they've been demoted. So one of them says that he's now been moved to like a calendar clerk or something like that. And then the other one claims that she received high regards in her position, but now she's been moved to something else. So they're saying that they've been retaliated against because they've been supporting the resentencing of the Menendez brothers. Also what's interesting is their hearing on March 20th and 21st. If you guys have not heard, they will be, they're supposed to be attending this hearing in person, which will be the first time in 30 years that they've been seen in public. So that, that will be a media storm. Absolutely. And also, are you going to be there? I would love to be there if I can get a ticket. And also I heard that they cannot wear regular clothing. Like if you remember when Luigi made his first. Luigi Mangione, he made his, his appearance. He was like decked and designer.

[Shane Simpson]

I mean, he's gonna wear his prison uniform.

[Emily Simpson]

They're gonna, they're gonna wear their prison.

[Shane Simpson]

Well, the reason is because he's already sentenced. He's are, they're already in jail. So when they have someone on trial, innocent before proven guilty. Right. So they don't, sometimes they don't want the jury to prejudge by seeing them in like, you know, a red Orange jumpsuit.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane Simpson]

So they have them dress and then come into the court and then change back into their jumpsuit or whatever the uniform is, go back to prison while they're in custody. So I'm guessing this time it just doesn't matter because the judge already knows they're in jail and it's just a resentment hearing. It's not a. Guilty. Not guilty.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. And just a reminder that it's not the DA Hawkman who makes the decision for them to be resent. All he does is make a recommendation to the judge and then the judge ultimately decides.

[Shane Simpson]

Right. But important nevertheless because he's still presenting evidence to the judge.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane Simpson]

And making the case.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. Exactly. Based upon everything that we've heard about Hawkman so far, my gut feeling is that he's not going to be very pro recent.

[Shane Simpson]

No, I saw, I saw him on TV like a couple months ago. I don't know why, because I wasn't following the case as close as you, but he, he made a good point. He goes, I'm not just going to just throw it in front of the judge because it's popular and because it's all over media. He goes, I'm now in, you know, in my position where I have to review like, he's kind of like, okay, now it's, it's on my desk. I gotta review it. I gotta, like, I can't just go off of everyone's word and. Because it's on Netflix and that was true, but you know, only to come to this point where it sounds like it's a little power trip for him maybe.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. All right, so we're gonna move on. And we've already done two podcasts on the Blake Lively Justin Baldoni mess. That's what I call it. It is a, it is a PR Juicy mess. It is a juicy mess. If you haven't listened to our first two podcast back and listen, we go through up until today where we're going to start. First of all, the last thing we have not spoken about, they did have a hearing. It was a pre trial conference. And basically what happened was there was a gag order that was requested. They really wanted Brian Friedman to shut up and stop talking. Brian Friedman, he's out there a lot defending yourself. Yeah, he's out there on tmz. He's, he's doing podcasts. He's, he, he's talking a lot. And I find it really ironic that they're telling him that he needs to stop talking, considering that when they filed that initial complaint with The California Civil Rights department that they, I mean, it looks to me, allegedly, it looks like they just colluded with the New York.

[Shane Simpson]

Times and Ryan Reynolds wants it to continue to be one sided.

[Emily Simpson]

It was very, it was very one sided. The article was very one sided. It was not a balanced article. And again, if you recall, we've talked about this in our first podcast. They gave Justin Baldoni's side very, very little time to respond. I think they got an email the night before basically saying, hey, do you want to respond to this? So anyway, what happened was in the hearing, the judge basically said, let's just follow the, you know, the professional rules of responsibility, which is Rule 3.6, which says, which basically bars lawyers from making statements publicly that could sway the outcome of the trial. First of all, to me, that is a very generalized, broad statement. I mean, clearly any attorney talking on behalf of their client is going to advocate.

[Shane Simpson]

Well, I think, I know, I know, but I think the ide is because you see them making press conferences all the time.

[Emily Simpson]

Right, right.

[Shane Simpson]

From big profile, high profile cases. So I think the idea is they can, they're supposed to only go on there and say things like, my client's innocent. We're going to argue zealously, blah, blah, blah, but not giving specific facts. Like they can deny things, but you don't want them to come in there and, you know, give the, you know, taint the jury with evidence that may not be admissible in court, but they're throwing it out there in public.

[Emily Simpson]

But what also is interesting is that Brian Freedman and Justin Baldon's team released the website two days before that pre trial conference where they were going to discuss a gag order. So I, I call him the FAFO attorney because he knew that that was going to be discussed. They went ahead and threw that website out there anyway, if you have the chance to look at it. What he did was he put the amended complaint on there and also the whole text message email chain between him. There's text with him and Ryan Reynolds, there's all the texts with him and, and Blake Lively. I think that was just the point they were making was that they're, they're the side that's being transparent. They're just putting it all out there.

[Shane Simpson]

And they're probably arguing two cases, one in court and one with the public.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, that's absolutely. And I would say at this point he's winning in the public. It's a, if this is a, if this is the, the court of PR and publicity, Baldoni is On top at this point.

[Shane Simpson]

Team Baldoni.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. So also in this hearing, Justin Baldoni's attorney, Brian Freeman claims that his client is devastated financially and emotionally. And he also wants to depose Blake Lively quickly and get right into discovery. Then I also saw he did. Brian Freeman did a podcast the other day. There's a new podcast called Two Angry Men, which is Mark Garagos and Harvey Levin, who is the TMZ guy. And on that podcast, Brian Freeman was making reference to Justin Baldoni basically losing four projects because of these accusations against him. So when people are like, wow, $400 million. Well, that's because they're going to argue potential earnings. They're going to argue that those are the damages and that's what's been lost. So BL's attorney claimed during this hearing that they're going to file an amended complaint. The amended complaint was supposed to be filed by February 14th. So I really thought when we recorded this podcast today, that we would be able to discuss her amended complaint.

[Shane Simpson]

Wait, and who is. Okay, Lively's amending her complaint. Do we have any idea what she's trying to amend?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, here's my thoughts. First of all, if she's amending the content, like, I have more allegations against him, I find that to be suspect because if you were originally going to file a complaint about someone, you had months and months to prepare it, you're working with the New York Times on it. You would have thrown everything out there in the beginning. You wouldn't have held stuff.

[Shane Simpson]

So it's not, it's not an amendment to add evidence. It's just an, like, cause of action. Well, because evidence is for trial. Right? So, I mean, it's probably. Yeah, you're right. It's probably more causes of action.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know what those are. I assume they would have been originally. I do think that she's probably going to add Jed Wallace. He is the guy that is in Texas, that he was named in the original complaint that Blake Lively filed where he has some kind of PR type of business where, I don't know, he does like astroturfing or bots or something like that. So Blake Lively wanted to depose him in Texas. Then he filed a seven million dollar lawsuit against her for, I think for some type of defamation because she named him in the complaint. She didn't name him as a defendant. She just named him in the complaint and talked about how he was, you know, colluding with all this information.

[Shane Simpson]

When it's in court, you have that immunity quasi Immunity, which, you know, you're allowed to say things in court, make those accusations.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know.

[Shane Simpson]

Anyway, maybe publicly she also threw it out there or something. I don't know.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I mean, he's named in this complaint, and everybody's talking about all these PR people that are all involved in these smear campaigns. And so he got pulled into this smear campaign against her.

[Shane Simpson]

I want the deposition of Taylor Swift.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes. Well, that's interesting you bring that up, because when Brian Friedman did this podcast recently, Harvey said to him, you're. You're clearly going to depose Taylor Swift. Right. And he said, you know, I don't know. We'll figure that out at game time. And Harvey's like, are you kidding me? Of course you're going to depose Taylor Swift. She was. She was at their home on that January 4th meeting when supposedly Ryan Reynolds berated Justin Baltony.

[Shane Simpson]

Part of the balcony scene or whatever.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. And apparently, you know, she was there when they were having that conversation about this balcony scene scene. And they were all, you know, gung ho about Blake's, you know, writing and.

[Shane Simpson]

Everything, using Taylor's thing. And why. What the heck? Why did I become friends with her?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I. I mean, I have read some things. This is just alleged. I don't know exactly what Taylor Swift is thinking, but clearly there. There's people, you know, close to Taylor that are saying she's distancing herself from Blake Lively and that she doesn't want to be involved in this lawsuit and she doesn't want to have anything to do with it.

[Shane Simpson]

Taylor Swift should give Blake Lively some advice. And you know what that would be.

[Emily Simpson]

Shake it off.

[Shane Simpson]

Shake it off.

[Emily Simpson]

That was a good one, Shane. I didn't even know you knew Taylor Swift songs.

[Shane Simpson]

I didn't know that one.

[Emily Simpson]

That was the only one. So there we go. Hopefully, when the amended complaint gets filed, we will do another podcast. We will talk about it. We will figure out, did she add in new causes of action, did she add in new defendants, what's going on there?

[Shane Simpson]

When she amends the complaint, then there can be allowed a response to those. To the new amended.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane Simpson]

Causes of action or whatever. Okay, just to be clear for the listeners.

[Opill Sponsor]

This episode is brought to you by opill, the first over the counter daily birth control pill available in the U.S. well, let me introduce Opill. Opill is a daily birth control pill that's FDA approved, full prescription, strength and estrogen free, plus there's no prescription needed.

[Emily Simpson]

Finally, the days of needing a prescription for birth control are over.

[Opill Sponsor]

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[Emily Simpson]

Opill is available online at most major retailers.

[Opill Sponsor]

Use code O P I L L O T c. That's O P I L L O T C for 25% off your first month of [e-mail].

[Arturo Castro]

Hi, I'm Arturo Castro, and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and narcos and roadh and so many commercials about back pain. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly, guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough. Get ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week, I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians to tell them a buckwild tale from across history and time. People like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, Joseph Gordon Levitt and Zoe Chao.

[Shane Simpson]

Titanic, Charles Manson, Alcatraz, Assata Shakur, the sketchy guy named Steve.

[Arturo Castro]

It's giving funny true crime.

[Shane Simpson]

I love storytelling and I love you, so I can't wait.

[Arturo Castro]

Listen and subscribe to Greatest escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Santi Damian]

Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here?

[John Cameron Mitchell]

Ow.

[Santi Damian]

Go slower. I met Santi at a luau party in October.

[Emily Simpson]

I'm Santi Damian. Oh, it was bizarre.

[Santi Damian]

The guy just disappeared one day. Santi has been missing ever since the hookup. What is that? I'm solving a mystery through sex and haven't made a private dick joke until now. Like, no matter how hard I try, all roads lead to the hookup.

[Arturo Castro]

You think it's causing people to turn aggro?

[Shane Simpson]

I'm gonna rip your arms off and use them to.

[Santi Damian]

Yeah, that's a word for it. This is such terrible representation. I'm so sorry. Poppers.

[Shane Simpson]

These aren't just any poppers.

[Santi Damian]

Mama always used to say, God gave me gumption in place of a gag reflex. No, but my psychiatrist didn't laugh at that one either. Listen to the hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[John Cameron Mitchell]

This is John Cameron Mitchell and my new fiction podcast series, Cancellation island stars Holly Hunter as Karen, a wellness influencer who launches a rehab for the recently cancelled. In the future, we will all be canceled for 15 minutes. But don't worry, we'll take you from broke to woke or your money back. Cancellation Island's revolutionary rehab therapies, like Bad touch football, anti racism spin class, and mandatory ayahuasca ceremonies are designed to force the cancel to confront their worst impulses. But everything starts to fall apart when people start disappearing.

[Shane Simpson]

Karen, where have you brought us?

[John Cameron Mitchell]

Cancellation island, where a second chance might just be your last. Listen to Cancellation island on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Emily Simpson]

All right, so here's some things that have been going on in the media with this Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni situation. First of all, I don't know if you saw this, but Colleen Hoover is back on Instagram. She deactivated her Instagram, I'm sure, because she was just getting hit with. She went on pause. Yes, she did. She is now back. But she should be.

[Shane Simpson]

She shouldn't let people.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, something.

[Shane Simpson]

Million followers. She's a successful author. You know, it's a.

[Emily Simpson]

It's.

[Shane Simpson]

It would be a waste for her to throw it away because she made a mistake or because people had opinions.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. So she's back on Instagram. We'll see what happens there. I did read in an article that she had removed anything that really had to do with Justin or Blake or. Or it ends with us. I mean, I'm sure she doesn't want to give people an avenue where they can comment. Now if they. A comment, they have to find, you know, a picture of.

[Shane Simpson]

Could write a book on. Inspired by Lively Valon.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, that would be. That would be a. That would be a series. So Blake Lively, right, litigates with us. That's a good one. So Blake Lively is now seeking Justin Baldon's phone records to show that there was a smear effort against her. This was in a Variety article. It came out last night. Blake Lively's lawyers sent a subpoena on Wednesday, February 13, for Justin Baldoni's phone records. Lively's attorneys sent subpoenas to three phone carriers, AT T, Verizon, and T Mobile, seeking phone records. Oh, what's his mint. No, that. That one has a protective order, probably. I'm just kidding. Yeah, yeah, exactly. He's like, he gets the penis. He's like, denied that be hilarious.

[Shane Simpson]

Of Baldoni sent a Sabina to, like, other carriers for Lively. And it's like, why aren't you using Ryan Reynolds?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, I don't know who her cell carrier is. That's interesting. They're seeking records pertaining to Baldoni, the producer Jamie Heath, who is one of the Wayfarer founders, and billionaire Wayfair Studios co founder Steve Saroit. The subpoenas also seek the phone records of Abel.

[Shane Simpson]

Who is she?

[Emily Simpson]

She is Wayfarers and Baldon's publicist. She is the one who. Her phone was confiscated by Stephanie Jones, who is. Who is another PR person. There's so much PR people.

[Shane Simpson]

Is that the supposed subpoena and releasing.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know about that subpoena. But anyway, Jennifer Abel, her phone was confiscated by Stephanie, and then that's how they propagated all those text messages that Blake Lively used in her complaint and that the New York also used. And allegedly, that's kind of a little sneaky.

[Shane Simpson]

There was something going on there, right?

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, yeah. Of. I mean, and if you. In. In Justin's complaint, he lays out that she went to the. To work one day, and then she got put into a room, and there was a security guard there, and they confiscated her phone and they made her sign all these documents, and it was her personal cell phone, her personal cell phone number. Then Blake Lively gets a hold of all these text messages that she uses in her complaints.

[Shane Simpson]

I would. Don't ever give up your cell phone.

[Emily Simpson]

No. Right.

[Shane Simpson]

Places like that.

[Emily Simpson]

No, you just throw it. If anything, they'd start to go for you. Throw it out.

[Shane Simpson]

No, it has a passcode. You don't have to give them the cascade.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, that's true. The subpoenas seek the phone records of Abel and publicist Melissa Nathan. Melissa Nathan is the publicist who is the crisis PR publicist that Justin Baldoni hired, you know, when the movie came out, and he's hearing that he's been referred to as a sexual predator. He hires the same PR crisis management team that represented Johnny Depp. So not. So he has a regular publicist, and then he hired this crisis management team, so there are so many PR people involved.

[Shane Simpson]

I know that's deviating, but do you know how much money is being made off of everyone outside of this? All the, like, social media stuff, articles written, you know, TV shows or whatever. Newscasting. Then you have all these PR crisis people that are hired. Who knows how many therapists are hired. Lawyers are hired. Right. Tons of investigators. It creates so much, like, money. Yeah, but to be made.

[Emily Simpson]

But these PR people are all being sued, and they're all suing each other. So they also have to.

[Shane Simpson]

They're also PR people are hiring PR people.

[Emily Simpson]

No, they're hiring attorneys to defend them. I mean, they're all. They're all suing each other. It's just. It's a mess.

[Shane Simpson]

Send them all to an island.

[Emily Simpson]

So where are we at? Lively's lawyers also sent subpoenas to two Internet providers, Cloudfare and aol, as well as to Jed Wallace, who we talked about earlier. He's the crisis consultant who is accused of launching a digital army against Lively on Baldoni's behalf. I anticipate that when she files her Amit. When Blakely. Blakely. Blake Lively. See, I have to say her name so many times, I just made it Blakely. When Blake Lively files her amended complaint, she's probably going to add Jed Wallace in as. As a new defendant. Brian Friedman, Baldoni's attorney, said that Lively is seeking calls, texts and location data stretching back more than two years. And he calls it a massive fishing expedition. And it demonstrates that they are desperately seeking any factual basis for their provably false claims and that they will find none. And I know he is working on a platform. We're talking about Brian Friedman, we're talking about Justin's attorney. He is working on a platform of transparency. So that's been their thing the whole time.

[Shane Simpson]

Means I got nothing to hide. Let's. Let's put it all out there on the table, right?

[Emily Simpson]

And that was the whole point of their website, was to say, look, our hands are clean. Here's everything, right? We're not hiding anything.

[Shane Simpson]

Here's all the messages on the other end. Here's all the crap that Blake is doing. So have at it.

[Emily Simpson]

So Justin Baldon, there was a recent podcast. He was actually. The podcast was actually taped before the Blake Lively court filing. It was taped back in November. I don't know why they held on to it so long, but it just got released a couple days ago, so I'm not sure. I don't know if they recorded it. And they always had the intent of holding on to it this long or it just worked out that way. But anyway, he appeared on an episode of the Gents Talk podcast. It was released on Monday, February 10th. The installment was filmed back in November of 2024, which is a month before Lively filed a lawsuit against her. Ends with us co star and director. He says, quote, this morning I sent a text message to my best friend Jamie. Jamie is involved in Wayfarer. He was a producer on the movie and the president of my company, Tara. And I told them that I wasn't in the best place. Baldoni said on the podcast, I told them that I was exhausted and that I haven't given myself time to recover or time to heal. Clearly, on this podcast, he doesn't go into any details about what's going on in his life. And at that time, I'M sure the interviewer doesn't know to ask more questions because they don't know exactly what he's making reference to. But now we know. I'm sure he's making reference to the year and a half of hell that he had to deal with.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay, let's talk about the regular stuff. Have they been in court yet together? They haven't, have they?

[Emily Simpson]

No, they haven't made an appearance when.

[Shane Simpson]

They both have to go.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, here's my thought on that.

[Shane Simpson]

I want to see stuff like that.

[Emily Simpson]

And you know what?

[Shane Simpson]

The Amber Heard Johnny Depp stuff, I.

[Emily Simpson]

Don'T think it's going to get that far.

[Shane Simpson]

It may not. But you think it'll settle? I think someone will drop it.

[Emily Simpson]

I think it has to settle because. Do you think that Blake Lively wants to be deposed by Brian Friedman? I know she doesn't want to take.

[Shane Simpson]

Two parties, so she can offer all she wants. He'd have to accept. And I'm. I'm speculating. I don't know. I. I would think that he might be like, hell with this. No, we're going to court like Johnny Depp did. Yeah, Johnny Depp wasn't trying to get 2 million bucks or whatever. He was trying to say, I'm clean, she's nasty, she pooped on my pillow, and I was. I was making a movie or whatever he does.

[Emily Simpson]

Right, right. Well, you know, that's interesting, because they also, in that podcast that Brian Friedman just did, they said, you know, would you be. Would you be willing to settle? Well, and he. He doesn't say yes or no. He's very smart in his wording, of course, but he says, look, this is about a man's reputation. He's been referred to as a sexual predator. And does the settlement mean, hey, let's just figure this all out and let's back out? But does it also mean. Are you gonna publicly say, right, because.

[Shane Simpson]

If they settle and the terms are kept private, then everyone's gonna think, oh, everyone's dirty or whatever. No one want anything exposed like Johnny Depp. But if he says, no, let's go to court, let's expose it all, let's clear my name. Plus, if his reputation and his business is suffering, then he may need the money to offset his losses. And if he's suing for 400 or whatever, you think they're going to cough up anywhere near that?

[Emily Simpson]

I mean, he's suing the New York Times, too, for defamation. So, I mean, he's. He's asking for a lot of money out There he's suing Blake.

[Shane Simpson]

Or. A settlement always included a written statement, too.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. Which I don't know if that's enough. There's a written statement. Is that enough to. To cure the fact that, you know.

[Shane Simpson]

Someone provided facts, like, you know, clarification of them? But no. So I. I'm. I hope he takes it all the way, because I want some good court tv.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. Well, you want to see. Well, it's in federal court, so I don't know. Do they film? I know state courts. I don't know if they're. If it's going to end up on television. Like. Like Johnny Depp. He was in state court. That's the difference.

[Shane Simpson]

Are they all federal courts, all the. All these cases?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, they're all in. They've all been. They're all in New York now. So he dismissed his action against the California. That's why he amended the complaint. And now in the New York filing, he added New York Times into that amended complaint. So it's all in the same court now. We're not on.

[Shane Simpson]

Another thing I want to bring up, which I'm probably throwing you off. That video that came out where she says she just does whatever to get the job, and she's acts like an actor, and then I get in and I infiltrate.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes. That's my.

[Shane Simpson]

Oh, my gosh, she is terrible. She is nasty. She's an idiot for saying that. She is an idiot. What year was that?

[Emily Simpson]

That was in 2022. So that was prior to her email.

[Shane Simpson]

She thought she smart, like, she's clever, like. And then I get in and I just do whatever I want.

[Emily Simpson]

I know. Let me get into that. And.

[Shane Simpson]

And I don't think I could finish that video.

[Emily Simpson]

All right, and here, this next on my. In a resurfaced interview from the 2022 Forbes Power Women Summit, Lively said just following direction as an actress was not fulfilling for her and that she's received.

[Shane Simpson]

To be nasty on top of it. That is fulfilling for me.

[Emily Simpson]

And that she has received backlash for stepping in and trying to be a part of costume design, writing, and other ASP aspects of a project.

[Shane Simpson]

Why would you want to do that? I get paid $20 million to act. I'm not gonna go above and beyond.

[Emily Simpson]

I'm just gonna act because at that point, it's an ego. It's not about actually doing your job and staying within the scope of your employment.

[Shane Simpson]

You want to be bigger in Hollywood, right? You want to be like, I'm a big executive producer. I'm this. I'm that now I'm going to do another movie, and I don't know.

[Emily Simpson]

She said she has had writers, producers, and directors welcome that and invite that, but she's also had others who resented her for stepping on toes. She also said she hasn't always been upfront with her plans to step into other parts of a project where she has. Where she was just hired as the actress, and that she wouldn't reveal that. I actually need to have authorship in order to feel fulfilled. Sometimes that might have felt like a rug being pulled out from under, you know, and she admits that. She says, I'll just. I. I'll just pretend like I'm gonna look cute, and I'll just stand here on this mark because I'm the actress, and I'm just doing that. But really, her intent is she wants to be involved in the writing and she wants to be involved in the costume. And all I could think about when I watched that video was, that is exactly what she did with this movie. Her first step was she took over costumes, which was not a great step. That is where they should have immediately been like, you don't know what you're doing with this movie. You need to get your hands out of the cookie jar. This wardrobe is a disaster. No one reading this book pictured this woman dressing like this or looking like this. And that's really where she should have been roped back in. But you know what, people? From this whole scenario, from beginning to end, and all the text messages and all the complaints and everything I've read, it tells a story. And the story is, this is a woman. And along with Ryan Reynolds. And I've said this before, they are surrounded by yes people. And that is the problem with them. There is no one. Like, you're a no person.

[Shane Simpson]

Right.

[Emily Simpson]

You are like. I would say, when people are like, oh, you've been on TV for a long time, but you really haven't changed.

[Shane Simpson]

I have.

[Emily Simpson]

I can't. Because my husband tells me every day that I am not star, that I am not famous, that I am not special, that I am a mom. I need to go make some chicken nuggets in the kitchen.

[Shane Simpson]

You are a civilian regular person.

[Emily Simpson]

I am a regular person. He tells me that daily. And I have remained humble.

[Shane Simpson]

I'm the star.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes, I know. You are the star. I got it. But the problem with Blake Lively and Ryan Reynolds is they. Everyone walks on eggshells around them, and everyone is a yes person around them.

[Shane Simpson]

Her attorneys are yes people.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes.

[Shane Simpson]

Her attorneys are like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We got this. We got this. Okay. You know, give us a blank check, right? And then when those attorneys go in public and they do the little, you know, press conference and they say, we will fight this to the end. No, we will fight this so long as she keeps paying us. And until they. Those checks stop coming, then we will not fight it anymore. And that's all that. That means they don't really. Whether she's guilty or not. I mean, they. They should. If she hires them, they should defend her, obviously, but they're. It's all about the money.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, yeah, they're getting paid regardless of whether she has a great case or whether she has a crappy case. I mean, it makes no difference.

[Shane Simpson]

An hour.

[Emily Simpson]

Exactly.

[Shane Simpson]

You know, how much her bills are. Because, you know, they call, like Lively and Reynolds are like, constantly, like, here's another email. Here's this. Now I want to amend it. When can we do this? And you know, they're just taking. It's going to be seven figures, like, big time.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. But here's the thing. I don't think she wants to go to trial. So how do they get out of this?

[Shane Simpson]

Well, if. If you say she has this ego, she may not settle.

[Emily Simpson]

But she's already. I have read, and I. I'm sure it's true, but allegedly she does not want Brian Friedman to depose her. She wants. If she has to be deposed, she wants someone else. It doesn't work like that. Brian Friedman's going to depose her. And let's talk about depositions just really quickly.

[Shane Simpson]

Her ego is going to be the death of her. If it's as you say and as Kenny Rogers says, you gotta know when to fold them and you gotta know when to hold them.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane Simpson]

And she's gotta fold. But when your ego is there, you hold out. Maybe, just maybe, maybe, maybe I'll win. Maybe I'll win. And then you don't.

[Emily Simpson]

I just want to talk about, just quickly, like, depositions. She does not want to be deposed.

[Shane Simpson]

No. Well, explain what a deposition is, the basic structure of it.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, okay, so basic structure would be Brian Friedman. He can't wait to do Discovery. This man is like, chomping at the bit. He wants to do Discovery right now. And he wants. Wants to. He wants to depose everyone and anyone that's on set that has anything to say. The actors, Taylor Swift, Ryan Reynolds. I mean, this guy's chopping deposition.

[Shane Simpson]

They sit down and they get. Do Q A. They get asked all kinds of questions, right? And the questions can Be, they don't have to just be about direct evidence, because it could be a question that might lead to evidence.

[Emily Simpson]

Right?

[Shane Simpson]

So they can ask all kinds of questions about her relationship with Taylor Swift gift. And then if she says the wrong thing, then, like, she starts to open up the door to certain text messages, then they might be able to subpoena Taylor Swift's cell phone carriers and blah, blah, blah. So it can get really bad. And then in work comp, when we do depositions, sometimes, like, they'll claim, like, erectile dysfunction, right? And then you're like, that's good, because now in the deposition, I get to ask about all their sex life. And then usually people are like, I don't want to talk about this. Really, because you made a complaint, you filed and said you had ed. So I got to figure out, you know, what gets you off and what doesn't and why it's not happening. And I'm telling you, I've seen people, they ask them really deep because then the person's like, forget it, forget it, forget it. And they'll either drop it or be quick to settle.

[Emily Simpson]

Right? And also, in a deposition, there isn't a judge there where you're. Where your side can object. The only thing really that you can object to is anything has to do with privilege.

[Shane Simpson]

Well, you can object. No, you can. You can object to hearsay and all the regular ones, but they still have to answer the question. So you object in a deposition to preserve it for when it goes to court to be inadmissible. But so a lot of times when we've done depositions, like, their attorney will be like, objection. And then the person's like, thinking, oh, I don't have to answer the question. Their attorney looks at me, goes, no, you still got to answer the question.

[Emily Simpson]

They're like, what?

[Shane Simpson]

They're like, no, that's just preserving my objection for court. Right. So anyway, I can get really deep.

[Emily Simpson]

I would want to be a fly on the wall if Brian Friedman has.

[Shane Simpson]

The opportunity and they might try to video it.

[Emily Simpson]

That is true. It would be on camera. Yes, absolutely.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

And I. I don't know about media rules with depositions and recording it, but knowing Brian Friedman and his. His concept of transparency.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah, it'll be on. It'll be, like, live streamed on the website.

[Emily Simpson]

It'll be on tmz.

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[Arturo Castro]

I'm Arturo Castro and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and Narcos and Roadhouse and so many commercials about back pain. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough. Get ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians to tell them a buck wild tale from across history and time. People like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, Joseph Gordon Levitt and Zoe Chao.

[Shane Simpson]

Titanic, Charles Manson, Alcatraz, Assata Shakur, the sketchy guy named Steve.

[Arturo Castro]

It's giving funny true crime.

[Shane Simpson]

I love storytelling and I love you. So I can't wait.

[Arturo Castro]

Listen and subscribe to Greatest escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Santi Damian]

Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here?

[John Cameron Mitchell]

Ow.

[Santi Damian]

Go slower. I met Santi at a luau party in October.

[Emily Simpson]

I'm Santi Damian. Oh, it was bizarre.

[Santi Damian]

The guy just disappeared one day. Santi has been missing ever since. The hookup? What is that? I'm solving a mystery through sex and haven't made a private dick joke until now. Like no matter how hard I try, all roads lead to the hookup.

[Arturo Castro]

You think it's causing people to turn aggro?

[Shane Simpson]

I'm gonna rip your arms off and use them to.

[Santi Damian]

Yeah, that's a word for it. This is such terrible representation. I'm so sorry. Poppers.

[Shane Simpson]

These aren't just any poppers.

[Santi Damian]

Mama always used to say God gave me gumption in place of a gag reflex. No, but my psychiatrist didn't laugh at that one either. Listen to the hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[John Cameron Mitchell]

This is John Cameron Mitchell and my new fiction podcast series, Cancellation island stars Holly Hunter as Karen, a wellness influencer who launches a rehab for the recently cancelled in the future, we will all be canceled for 15 minutes, but don't worry, we'll take you from broke to woke or your money back. Cancellation Island's revolutionary rehab therapies like bad touch football, anti racism spin class and mandatory ayahuasca ceremonies are designed to, to force the council to confront their worst impulses. But everything starts to fall apart when people start disappearing.

[Shane Simpson]

Karen, where have you brought us?

[John Cameron Mitchell]

Cancellation island, where a second chance might just be your last. Listen to Cancellation island on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Emily Simpson]

Foreign. We're gonna move on and we're going to talk about a new case because this is a very interesting case. A lot of people have been invested in this. It is the Karen Reed case. Now, Karen Reed is going to go on trial again on April 1. So I wanted to do a quick just synopsis background. Her first trial was a hung jury. So she is now being retried and she goes to trial on April 1st. So I know that there's going to be a media storm around this trial and everybody's going to be invested in it. So I wanted to take this time that we can do kind of a background into the case, the facts, where we're at, so we can all be on the same page so that when it start, the trial starts April 1st and we can follow it.

[Shane Simpson]

All right, so what are the charges? It's criminal, right?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. So John O'Keefe had been an officer with the Boston Police Department for 16 years when he died January 29th on 2022, he had been dating Reed. This is Karen Reed, and she was an equity analysis at Fidelity Investments for two years. According to the Norfolk County Assistant District Attorney Adam Lawley, troubles in the couple's relationship appeared to intensify in the months before O Keefe's death, which included during a New Year's trip to Aruba. Apparently there's text messages and voicemails that start to show that they, that their relationship was deteriorating.

[Shane Simpson]

Who are these people? Are they just regular people?

[Emily Simpson]

They're just regular people. But he's a, he's a police officer and this is his girlfriend, Karen Reed. And I'll tell you, this case is. People are very invested in this case. And I'll tell you why this is.

[Shane Simpson]

I.

[Emily Simpson]

Let me go through it and then.

[Shane Simpson]

I just need to know what's the crime?

[Emily Simpson]

I'm getting there.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay, just start with the crime.

[Emily Simpson]

I'm just giving you a background of who the people are. He's an officer. This is the girlfriend. On January 28th in 2022, Reed's defense lawyer David Yannetti claims that the couple seemed fine while they were out at a bar in a Boston suburb. They're at out at a bar with other current and former law enforcement officers. After leaving the bar, Reed later told first responders that she had argued with O'Keefe before dropping him off at an afterparty at the home of Brian Albert, who is a now retired Boston sergeant, who had also been at the bar the next morning. Reed's lawyers have said that she went out looking for her boyfriend. She couldn't find him. She wakes up at, like, 4 in the morning, and she realizes he's not home.

[Shane Simpson]

So he spent the night.

[Emily Simpson]

I know. I. No, he did not spend the night. He got dropped off at a party. This is what she claims.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay, okay.

[Emily Simpson]

She claims that she dropped him off at a party. They went to a bar. They're inebriated. They're drinking. She drops him off. She's driving. Clearly, she's drove him to a house.

[Shane Simpson]

I'm already not believing this story. They went to a party or bar or whatever.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes.

[Shane Simpson]

Had a bunch of drinks, their girlfriend, boyfriend, and then she drops them off somewhere. They don't go home together? They don't spend more time together?

[Emily Simpson]

No. Apparently, she drops him off at a home that was having an after party, and the home is owned by a former police officer.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay. And she doesn't go to the party.

[Emily Simpson]

No. She leaves and goes home.

[Shane Simpson]

Sure.

[Emily Simpson]

And passes out or whatever. Then she wakes up at, like, 4 in the morning.

[Shane Simpson]

She's already. Not believable.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, well, I can already tell what side you're on. I haven't even got through the facts of the case yet.

[Shane Simpson]

Guilty. Okay, go ahead. Sorry.

[Emily Simpson]

Anyway, she wakes up, she realizes that she can't find him. He never came home that morning. She fi. She has some friend that goes with her. They drive around, they go back to the house, and she spots his body outside of the home on the morning of January 29th. And then one of the women dialed 91 1. Oh, Keith. This is the office.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay, wait a minute. I know. I gotta ask these questions, though. So she gets her friend, says, let's go look for my boyfriend.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay. Why is she suspicious the boyfriend's missing? Because she texts him and he doesn't.

[Emily Simpson]

Respond because he never came home.

[Shane Simpson]

So he. He didn't fall through whatever his routine was. And he's missing.

[Emily Simpson]

He's missing. Okay, so he's not there. So she gets up, it's early in the morning. They drive.

[Shane Simpson]

She's like, I need to go get an alibi. So she's like, hey, come with me to find my boyfriend. He's on this lawn over there. Sorry, it's just pretty obvious. Okay, keep going on. I don't know why it was on jury. Okay, go ahead. Sorry.

[Emily Simpson]

You are.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay, go ahead. Karen Reed.

[Emily Simpson]

All right, so, okay, you got me all confused.

[Shane Simpson]

She grabbed her friend. She went and found him on the lawn or something.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes. At like 6am they call 911, the police come. He's pronounced dead. They take him to the hospital. He's pronounced dead at 7:50am at the hospital. The medical examiner attributed his cause of death to blunt force trauma to the head. Blunt force trauma to the head.

[Shane Simpson]

It's never Blunt force trauma to the wrist. Yeah, it's always to the head.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes, it could be to, like, your. Your chest and your.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah, you know, if she wants to kill him, she's gonna hit him in the head.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay. And hypothermia. So Reed was charged with manslaughter, motor vehicle homicide, and leaving the scene of a deadly crash. The prosecution alleges that Reed backed her Lexus SUV into O'Keefe outside of the home, causing a skull fracture and brain bleeding. And that she left him there to die. Yeah, that's the prosecution, right?

[Shane Simpson]

That's a different story.

[Emily Simpson]

Basically, they got into a fight, and she's a knee breed, and he's inebriate, and she's in the car and she's pissed off, and she backs over him and then leaves him there.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

That's the prosecution story. Even though Reed said she dropped o'keefe off at Albert's home, the assistant d. A. Said that no one at the after party recalled seeing o'keefe inside. See, that was interesting to me, because she claims that she dropped him off at this house. House. There's all these people at a party.

[Shane Simpson]

That was one of my first questions, except you kept telling me not to ask questions was she drops off at a. She claims to drop them off at a party where there's all these witnesses. Right. Ridiculous. She was an idiot. She should have said, I dropped him off, like, on the corner where he wanted to. To walk or something. Okay, but there's no witnesses.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, so this is where it gets muddy for me because I don't understand why, if he went inside the house, there's witnesses that can't confirm that he's ever inside this house.

[Shane Simpson]

But of course he didn't go inside the house.

[Emily Simpson]

You don't think he ever went inside?

[Shane Simpson]

Sorry. News flash. No no, she dumped him on the lawn. At what time? I don't know. After she ran him over or whatever she did. She puts him on the lawn at the party. Everyone, the party's probably over by now. Or she put him on the lawn hoping someone from the party would see him. They had. They clearly didn't. And then she grabbed her friend as a witness so the friend could testify. Like, oh, I don't know. We were driving around, we found him. She didn't touch him.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, let's get back to the facts. I like how you figured figured this whole case out. Before I even get through anything that.

[Shane Simpson]

Happened, I need to be on the jury.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, they was.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay. They claim. So people in this home claim that they saw the SUV pull up to the house, then leave. And they assume no one from the vehicle was joining them. But vehicle Data from Reed's SUV showed that at 12:45am While outside of Albert's. This is the of other police officer at home. The Lexus traveled. Traveled backward for 60ft at 24 miles per hour.

[Shane Simpson]

This is what the prosecution people don't realize. Your car documents a lot. It's called an OBD2 sensor.

[Emily Simpson]

I it. It does not surprise me that you.

[Shane Simpson]

Know this regulated and all cars have them.

[Emily Simpson]

Does my car know how many times I've been through McDonald's drive thru? That's what I want to know.

[Shane Simpson]

Yes, it senses the egg McMuffins and it reports it to me. I have an app. No, really that it has an OBD2 sensor and it documents. So if you hard brakes, airbags and a miles per hour it can. I don't think GPS so much. That might be some. But that's not required.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, let me go on with the prosecution side and then we'll get into the defense. The SUV's tail light was broken and pieces of the light from the tail light were later found outside of Albert's home.

[Shane Simpson]

And tail lights can be very distinctive. Like sometimes they have fins on them and stuff. So they can really know which tail light like which car it goes to.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, again, this is just the prosecution, so we're going to get to the defense. The forensic testing showed that O'Keefe's hair was found on the vehicle's bumper and his DNA was found on the tail light. Investigators also found the remnants of a cocktail that appears to have been spilled on the bumper. The prosecutor said she spilled her cocktail.

[Shane Simpson]

Oh, or it was probably his. Huh?

[Emily Simpson]

O'Keefe was captured on video leaving the bar with a cocktail in his Hand and bits of what the prosecutor described as a drinking glass were found in the SUV's bumper. All right, let's get to the defense.

[Shane Simpson]

There is no defense.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, there's always a defense. There was a hung jury. There's clearly a defense. Reed's lawyers developed a theory that Karen Reed did drop off O'Keefe at the party, after which O'Keefe got into a fight with someone at the party and was attacked by the family dog because apparently there were scratches all over his arms that aren't consistent with someone running over him. Reed's defense brought in experts to say that O'Keefe's wounds were consistent with a dog bite from a dog the size of the one that lived at that home who had a history of biting people. And even if the police didn't engage in a cover up, that's what they claim. They claim because these people at this home were all. A lot of them were officers or it was at an officer's home that this was a police cover up, that maybe he got inside the house. He was there. Everybody's drunk. He's drunk. He gets in a fight. He has blunt force trauma to the head because he got in a fight with somebody.

[Shane Simpson]

Is someone else beat him up and killed him at the party.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane Simpson]

And they all wanted to cover up because they're like, they're all men in blue.

[Emily Simpson]

They're all conspiring because they're protecting each other. And that's her theory.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah, good luck with that one. This phone doesn't have a ring camera or something, man. That would solve a lot of problems.

[Emily Simpson]

Right at the house.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

Aren't there neighbors that have a ring camera? Like someone's got. We've got cameras on this house. Like someone's got to have cameras somewhere these days.

[Opill Sponsor]

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[Emily Simpson]

Plus there's no prescription needed. Finally, the days of need and a prescription for birth control are over.

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[Emily Simpson]

Control, Opill, is available online at most major retailers.

[Opill Sponsor]

Use code O P I L L O T c. That's O P I L L O T C for 25% off your first month of [e-mail].

[Arturo Castro]

Hi, I'm Arturo Castro, and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and narcos and Roadhouse and so many commercials about back pain. And now I'm starting a podcast because, honestly, guys, I don't feel the space is crowded enough. Get ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week, I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians to tell them a buckwild tale from across history and time. People like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, Joseph Gordon Levitt and Zoe Chao.

[Shane Simpson]

Titanic, Charles Manson, Alcatraz, Assata Shakur, a sketchy guy named Steve.

[Arturo Castro]

It's giving funny true crime.

[Shane Simpson]

I love storytelling and I love you. So I can't wait.

[Arturo Castro]

Listen and subscribe to Greatest escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Santi Damian]

Do you remember what you said the first night I came over here?

[Emily Simpson]

Ow.

[Santi Damian]

Go slower. I met Santi at a luau party in October.

[Emily Simpson]

I'm Santi Damian. Oh, it was bizarre.

[Santi Damian]

The guy just disappeared one day. Santi has been missing ever since the hookup. What is that? I'm solving a mystery through sex and haven't made a private dick joke until now. Like, no matter how hard I try, all roads lead to the hookup.

[Arturo Castro]

You think it's causing people to turn aggro?

[Shane Simpson]

I'm gonna rip your arms off and use them to.

[Santi Damian]

Yeah, that's a word for it. This is such terrible representation. I'm so sorry. Poppers.

[Shane Simpson]

These aren't just any poppers.

[Santi Damian]

Mama always used to say God gave me gumption in place of a gag reflex. No, my psychiatrist didn't laugh at that one either. Listen to the hookup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[John Cameron Mitchell]

This is John Cameron Mitchell. And my new fiction podcast series, Cancellation island stars Holly Hunter as Karen, a wellness influencer who launches a rehab for the recently cancelled. In the future, we will all be canceled for 15 minutes. But don't worry, we'll take you from broke to woke or your money back. Cancellation Island's revolutionary rehab therapies, like bad touch football, anti racism spin class, and mandatory ayahuasca ceremonies are designed to force the council to confront their worst impulses. But everything starts to fall apart when people start disappearing.

[Emily Simpson]

Karen, where have you brought us?

[John Cameron Mitchell]

Cancellation island, where a second chance might just be your last. Listen to Cancellation island on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Emily Simpson]

So this is interesting. So the lead investigator in this case texted Inappropriate comments about Karen Reed to others to, like, his high school friends, his sister. Three different prosecution witnesses testified that at crucial times, including the night of the killing, their calls back and forth to each other were inadvertent butt dials. So basically, there's these calls between these officers the night that this happened, but they're saying, oh, we. These were just accidental calls. Like, they weren't conspiring. They weren't saying, you know, hey, we've gotta come up with this story to say that, you know, she ran over him.

[Shane Simpson]

They don't have the content of the call. They just have phone logs.

[Emily Simpson]

They just have phone logs and, like, one calls a couple seconds, the other one's like, 22 seconds. So, you know, that's. The defense saying that they're.

[Shane Simpson]

The calls are probably. Did you hear that car crash? It sounded like he. She ran over someone. What's that tail light over there?

[Emily Simpson]

All right, so the lead investigator in this case, he's State Trooper Michael Proctor. He's a Massachusetts State Police trooper that led the investigation in this Caribbean. No, his name's Proctor. Michael Proctor. He's the lead investigator.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

He's a trooper. A police. State police trooper. Karen Reed's lawyers said that Proctor's investigation was biased, and they accused him of failing to pursue other potential suspects and not disclosing his relationship with the family, the Albert family, which is where this occurred. So he has a relationship with the guy that owns the house, and he's the lead investigator.

[Shane Simpson]

That's a fair. That's a fair concern.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. So the defense is saying, look, not only is he sending inappropriate, you know, texts that have to do with this case. Right. He called her a. Like a whack job. And he said. He texted, like.

[Shane Simpson]

Sure. He called her all kinds of things.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. And he also said, like, when he was going through a killer, he might.

[Shane Simpson]

Have called her that.

[Emily Simpson]

That. Well, he called her a whack job. He also made reference to, like, going through her phone and saying, oh, I couldn't find any news.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah, you know, I. I agree with the argument. Biased. And it's a conflict of interest. That doesn't negate my findings. She's guilty. You're so convinced she's guilty, but they definitely. You definitely need someone more neutral.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane Simpson]

And that's a shame.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, so in her first trial. So during this is Michael Proctor again.

[Shane Simpson]

Wait, when was the first trial? Trial.

[Emily Simpson]

So this trial. Her first trial took place in 2024. So Michael Proctor, again, he is the lead investigator. And during his testimony, during the trial, Proctor read through a text conversation that he had with a group of friends he'd known since childhood. On the evening of January 29, which is the day O'Keefe died. After some discussion, a friend wrote back in this text, this group text. I'm sure the owner of the house will receive some. It. Proctor responded, nope, the homeowner is a Boston cop, too. So he's saying in this text message, this guy doesn't have anything to worry about because he's a Boston cop. Basically implying that he's going to be protected. So this came out during the trial. He also told his friend that Reed waffled O'Keefe. Waffled. I guess that means just. Is that like, literal? Like, like. It looked like a waffle. I don't know.

[Shane Simpson]

What I didn't know was a verb.

[Emily Simpson]

It is now. A waffle is a verb. He waffled or she waffled O'Keefe's body, who was banged up when he saw it at the hospital. When a friend asked, is she hot? At least Proctor replied, from all accounts, he didn't do anything wrong. She's a whack job. Then spelled out a vulgar word for a woman, which we can all guess what that vulgar word is. It starts with a circle. Insanity.

[Shane Simpson]

Cat.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes, Cat, I love that you're my. Reed's attorney objected and said, these are your words. And then the judge said, these are your words, Trooper Proctor. And he had him say the C word out loud, which it's not Cat. It's the C u n T word. Proctor continued, she's a babe. Weird Fall river accent, though. Then added a disparaging comment about her rear. So, clearly, this is the lead investigator he's making. He's. There's these text messages where he's completely inappropriate. He's talking about how. Because the guy who owned the house where this. Where this death occurred, that he won't be in any trouble because he's a Boston police officer. So basically, that's enough for now. This guy has to go to these disciplinary hearings.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

And he's removed from the case. He's been to two disciplinary hearings. He has another hearing on March 13th. So we'll see what happens.

[Shane Simpson]

I have a quick question. So, as a hung jury, do we know how many voted or how they casted their.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know. But what came out later was that the jury was unanimous on two of the counts, but that was not made public, and I don't think the judge knew that.

[Shane Simpson]

So what his.

[Emily Simpson]

What her defense is trying to do now Currently is to get those two charges dismissed, because during that original trial.

[Shane Simpson]

He'S saying, throw it all out.

[Emily Simpson]

He's saying, throw those two charges out because the jury was unanimous that she wasn't guilty on those two charges.

[Shane Simpson]

So when they have a second trial, because this, this, there's a little bit of tainting on this investigation. I do agree that it's unfortunately biased whether, whether it affected the investigation or not. It's still not a good look. Do they have a new investigator? Do they do anything different or do they present the same evidence?

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know, but that is a very good question, and that is something that we'll have to talk about again when this trial starts April 1st. Just how they're going to proceed forward.

[Shane Simpson]

I always think I, I don't, I don't have the experience, but I certainly a second trial after Hungary is always a little weird because they, they do. It's a different delivery.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane Simpson]

Well, when you almost should just get a new jury and just have them watch the trial, the original trial, and see if they can come up with a different response. I don't know, because it, sometimes that happens. I've read in cases. I can't recall the top of my head. But the second case. Well, the second trial law will not have this evidence, this. Oh, it was the Menendez ones.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. I was like, I kept.

[Shane Simpson]

That was you that I was talking about.

[Emily Simpson]

That was me. I was trying to say Menendez. I was like, yes, the second trial in Menendez was completely different.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah, that's terrible.

[Emily Simpson]

It's completely different.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

They didn't allow like, 90 of the evidence or, or the testimony that had to do with the alleged abuse and all that.

[Shane Simpson]

Well, that's one reason why. Well, yeah, that's, that's the risk you take with the jury, but with a judge, you'll never have.

[Emily Simpson]

Have a hung jury.

[Shane Simpson]

Hung judge.

[Emily Simpson]

No, you won't have. No.

[Shane Simpson]

Not to be taken out of context.

[Emily Simpson]

Right, exactly.

[Shane Simpson]

But. Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

All right. So on June 28, 2024, this is during their first. Her first trial, juror sent a note to Judge Canoni telling her that they are deadlocked. The judge responded that she did not believe that they had deliberated long enough and asked them to continue trying to reach a verdict. Then on July 1, 2024, the jury sent another note to the judge for a second time, telling her that they are unable to reach a unanimous verdict. The jury said they are deeply divided, and the judge asked them to return for one final round of deliberations. Later in the day a mistrial was declared due to the hung jury. Hours after the mistrial was declared, Massachusetts state police announced that trooper Michael Proctor, the lead investigator in the case, has been relieved of duty. So he's removed.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

Now we're going to get to the retrial. So the state's top court ruled that Karen Reed can be retried on all the same charges in the death of her Boston police officer boyfriend. Prosecutors have sought to retry Reed this year on charges of second degree murder, manslaughter, and leaving the scene of a crime. So Karen Reed's attorney, Martin Weinberg, argued that five jurors later said that they were deadlocked only on the manslaughter count and that they had unanimously agreed in the jury room that she was not guilty of the charges of second degree murder and leaving the scene. But they had never. They had never divulged that to the judge.

[Shane Simpson]

I don't have the experience, but the whole hung jury and a second trial, second jury, it just. It never sat right with me. It's like. And then when the judges and I get that they. They're not doing the wrong thing, but when they're like, no, go back in there and figure it out. Because it's kind of like, oh, your honor, six of us, you know, think he's guilty and the other six don't. Oh, we'll go back in there until you change your minds. I mean, it's. It's just.

[Emily Simpson]

I. I know.

[Shane Simpson]

And then you get a second jury. And then in this case, I get the argument, which, look, you know, a jury of his peer, her peers, has found out that she's not guilty on these two things, so they shouldn't be retried. I totally get that. But then now you're gonna have a different jury talking about different. It's just so flippant. It is flippant, and I don't like that. But I. I know that, you know, I don't know what the answer would be. So.

[Emily Simpson]

So Weinberg argued in the appeal that trying her again would amount to double jeopardy and urged the court to allow an evidentiary hearing where jurors could be asked whether they had reached final not guilty verdicts on any of the charges.

[Shane Simpson]

That's right. Double jeopardy. Because if they're found, if a jury found them not guilt, found her not guilty on two things, and they. They say, okay, yeah, but we're gonna go have a nut. We're gonna charge you again.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane Simpson]

We're gonna prosecute you again. Right on the same. Because double jeopardy is on the same set of facts. And the same crime. Not just the same crime, the same set of facts. And in this case case, there are no new real facts as to the alleged crime.

[Emily Simpson]

So she's going to go back to trial again on April 1. I don't think they've determined whether she's going to be retried on all three charges or just on the one. I think that that is still.

[Shane Simpson]

And the one being manslaughter.

[Emily Simpson]

The one being manslaughter.

[Shane Simpson]

Find out in due time.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes.

[Shane Simpson]

How old is Karen Reed, by the way? How old are these people?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, do you want to know if she's hot and what her.

[Shane Simpson]

I just want to know, like, you know, but I, I also, I just want to know what they're like. Like, do they have kids, how long they've been together. This is a crime of passion.

[Emily Simpson]

It is.

[Shane Simpson]

Right.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, it's a crime of alcohol, too. That's what happens when everybody.

[Shane Simpson]

I don't know if it's crime passion, but it was between two lovers.

[Emily Simpson]

Two lovers, yes. Okay. So she's gonna go back to, to trial April 1, but the judges ruled that she's going to go back and they're going to deliberate all three charges, even though there was evidence that jurors came forward and said that there was a unanimous.

[Shane Simpson]

Right. So the argument of double jeopardy was overridden by the judge.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. So.

[Shane Simpson]

Which is interesting. I, I, that's interesting. So what we learned, we think we learned is it's all or nothing. If we're going to retry the case, we're going to try it all. But it would go the other way around, too. If they found her guilty on certain charges and not guilty or and hung on other charges again, they would throw it all out and have to start all over.

[Emily Simpson]

The problem is, is that I don't.

[Shane Simpson]

Think the jury that might get appealed.

[Emily Simpson]

The jury did not. I guess the jury wasn't forthcoming. And what the, what they were unanimous on, they just basically were like, we just can't come to a decision on all three. And then was determined that they did actually come to a decision on two, but I guess at this point in time, it doesn't retroactively apply. And she has to be retried on all three counts again starting April 1st, which we will follow. So make sure that you continue to listen to the podcast because we're going to follow the Karen Reed trial, which I think will be really. Yes.

[Shane Simpson]

During all this time, is she in custody or is she out on bail. That's what I want to know.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, so she's out on bail.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

And they were dating for two years and she is 44. So those are your. And you can Google an image of her so that you can see what she looks like. All right, so there you go. That's a little brief. I know that if a lot of you followed the Karen Reed trial, I know that there was a lot more involved. There were like 70 witnesses or something.

[Shane Simpson]

I just looked her up guilty.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay. So I understand that there's a lot more details. However, we wanted to do a brief overview just so that we could all kind of be on the same page, that we all have a basic understanding of what happened and where we're at so that we can follow this starting on April 1st. So, again, thank you guys so much for all the amazing feedback. So many of you have reached out and said that you enjoy listening. Also, you find Shane funny. I appreciate that Shane appreciates that I do all the work and Shane is the sidekick that ask the questions, but a lot of you say that you enjoy it because he ask the questions that you thinking. So we appreciate the positive feedback. And just to let you know, we're going to release episodes every two weeks. So that is the plan going forward. So again, thank you so much for listening and we will see you next time.

[Shane Simpson]

Thank you. Bye.

[Arturo Castro]

Hi, I'm Arturo Castro, and I've been lucky enough to do stuff like Broad City and Narcos and Roadhouse. And now I'm starting a podcast because honestly, guys, I don't feel the space is crowded. And get ready for Greatest Escapes, a new comedy podcast about the wildest true escape stories in history. Each week, I'll be sitting down with some of the most hilarious actors and writers and comedians, people like Ed Helms, Diane Guerrero, and Joseph Gordon Levitt.

[Shane Simpson]

I love storytelling and I love you. So I can't wait.

[Arturo Castro]

Listen and subscribe to Greatest escapes on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[John Cameron Mitchell]

This is John Cameron Mitchell and my new fiction podcast series, Cancell island stars Holly Hunter as Karen, a wellness influencer who launches a rehab for the recently cancelled. In the future, we will all be cancelled for 15 minutes, but don't worry, we'll take you from broke to woke or your money back. Cancellation Island's revolutionary rehab therapies like bad touch football, anti racism, spin class, and mandatory ayahuasca ceremony are designed to force the council to confront their worst impulses. But everything starts to fall apart. When people start disappearing. Karen, where have you brought us Cancellation island, where a second chance might just be your last. Listen to Cancellation island on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Emily Simpson]

The OGs of Uncensored Motherhood are back and badder than ever. I'm Erica.

[Shane Simpson]

And I'm Mila.

[Emily Simpson]

And we're the hosts of the Good Moms Bad Choices podcast brought to you by the Black Effect Podcast Network every Wednesday. Yeah, we're moms, but not your mommy. Historically, men talk too much and women have quietly listened. And all that stops here. If you like witty women, then this is your choice.

[Shane Simpson]

Listen to the Good Mom's Bad Choices.

[Emily Simpson]

Podcast every Wednesday on the Black and Effect podcast network, the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you go to find your podcast. I'm Emila, host of the podcast Crumbs. For years, I had to rely on other people to tell me my story.

[Arturo Castro]

And what I heard wasn't good.

[Shane Simpson]

You?

[Emily Simpson]

Really? Last night, it felt like I lived.

[Arturo Castro]

Most of my life in a blackout.

[Emily Simpson]

I was trapped in addiction. I had to grab the lamp and smashed it against the walls. And then I decided I wanted to tell my own story. Listen to crumbs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.