Legally Brunette: The Gilgo Beach Murders

Summary

Two Ts in a Pod: Legally Brunette – The Gilgo Beach Murders

iHeartPodcasts | August 12, 2025
Hosts: Emily Simpson and Shane Simpson

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Episode Overview

In this true-crime-focused episode, Emily and Shane Simpson (substituting for Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge) take an in-depth look at the Gilgo Beach murders, also known as the Long Island Serial Killer case. The discussion navigates through the origins of the case, the botched police investigation mired in corruption, and the eventual arrest of Rex Heuermann. The hosts bring a blend of fascination, skepticism, and dark humor to the topic while emphasizing the tragic mishandling of one of the most notorious serial murder cases in recent American history.

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Key Discussion Points & Deep Dives

1. Initial Case Updates & News Items

• Update on Diddy Case (03:05 – 09:51)

  • Emily offers a rehash of the Diddy case, including the controversial Man Act and defense arguments around racial motivation.
  • Gina, a previously missing victim/witness, reemerges to write a letter supporting Diddy’s bail, leading the hosts to speculate about witness manipulation.

  “I don't know. I mean, I can guess what happened… I assume that he had some kind of contact with her. Either she's scared, or... check her bank account. Or she's gained something substantial.”
  – Emily Simpson (09:28)

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2. Introduction to the Gilgo Beach Murders / Long Island Serial Killer

(16:14 – 24:25)

• Emily clarifies the case's nomenclature: Gilgo Beach Murders are the same as the Long Island Serial Killer (LISK) case.
• The murders largely target sex workers, whose remains are discovered between 2010–2011 along a remote stretch of Ocean Parkway.

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3. Shannan Gilbert: The Catalyst

(18:10 – 24:25)

• The case begins with sex worker Shannan Gilbert’s disappearance after a panicked 911 call.

• Multiple witnesses, failed rescue attempts, and questionable police action set the investigation in motion.

• Emily details the tragic sequence: Shannan’s frantic flight, ignored pleas for help, and eventual disappearance.

  “So terrible. The man who she met with, the client—wish she stayed in that house... there are so many opportunities for her to save herself. And I don't understand what happened. It is such a mystery to me.”
  – Emily Simpson (20:30)

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4. Discovery of the Bodies & Victim Profiles

(21:24 – 36:01)

• While searching for Shannan, police discover four bodies wrapped in burlap along Gilgo Beach—the "Gilgo Four": Melissa Barthelemy, Amber Costello, Megan Waterman, Maureen Brainard Barnes.

• The hosts outline a timeline of disappearances, highlighting the victims' similarities: young, petite, sex workers.

• Amber Costello’s prior encounter and her roommates’ crucial witness accounts—especially a description of the suspect—later prove pivotal.

  “Supposedly the fee, this is what I've learned, was fifteen hundred dollars, six times her hourly rate… That's a flag if I ever saw one.”
  – Shane Simpson (35:30)

  “I mean, there's so many times when you read these stories and these decisions that these women made—you're just so sad… they're in dire straits, trying to survive.”
  – Emily Simpson (36:02)

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5. New Victims, Crime Scene Patterns & Serial Killer Evolution

(41:11 – 44:22; 49:19 – 51:19)

• Further remains are uncovered along Long Island, including a toddler, an Asian male, and dismembered corpses—suggesting the killer’s evolving methods.

• The hosts discuss changes in modus operandi over time: “serial killers evolve, they get bored, they change, they hone in their skills” (42:55).

• Discussion on victimology and theories around the disparate findings, such as the reason for wrapping victims in burlap versus dismemberment.

  “I guess from my perspective, watching it… he is involved with sex workers. There was a woman that came forward that said that he had hired her for sex… I don’t think James Burke is involved in the actual serial killer part…”
  – Emily Simpson (64:36)

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6. Police Corruption and the 11-Year Delay

(54:57 – 70:31)

• Emily and Shane recount the extraordinary corruption within the Suffolk County Police Department that allowed the killer to remain free for over a decade.

• Police Chief James Burke actively blocks the FBI, fearing exposure of his illicit behavior, and enforces a "blue wall" of silence.

• Burke and DA Thomas Spota’s eventual downfall, ties to the case through patronage, and their later unrelated arrests are explored.

  "He blocked the FBI. He delayed key forensic progress… He basically was just like, no one is allowed to have anything to do with this case."
  – Emily Simpson (64:36)

  “The corruption is unreal in this police department.”
  – Emily Simpson (70:31)

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7. The Turning Point: Task Force & Technology

(75:18 – 81:29)

• A new, uncorrupt police commissioner creates a task force, digitizes old files, and closely re-examines the Amber Costello witness interview that leads them to Rex Heuermann.

• Profiling based on descriptions (height, vehicle, glasses), and phone data analytics are crucial.

• Within six weeks, they zero in on Heuermann by matching cell movement/geography and uncovering DNA evidence from pizza crust he discarded.

  "They digitize all the documents and evidence that has to do with this case so it can be easily searchable… as they're searching through this, they come across the interview that had to do with Amber Costello and her roommate Dave..."
  – Emily Simpson (78:00)

  "They grab the pizza. They take the crust. It has DNA on it. They run the DNA, and it comes back that the DNA matches the hairs that they found on the bodies. So now they've got it all."
  – Emily Simpson (81:29)

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8. The Arrest & Evidence Against Rex Heuermann

(81:30 – 85:18)

• Rex Heuermann, a successful architect with an unkempt, "serial killer-esque" home, is arrested in July 2023.

• Indictments expand over time as more bodies are linked to him; his blueprint for killing is found on a computer file.

• Defense challenges DNA sequencing and seeks to split charges in court; as of the episode, there is no set trial date.

  "The document was a carefully structured blueprint of serial murder planning… It detailed specific steps and lessons for future offenses..."
  – Emily Simpson (85:18)

  "Imagine if that someone comes knocking on the door and they're like, ‘Your husband's a murderer. We're here to arrest him.’"
  – Shane Simpson (83:14)

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9. Systemic Problems & Prevention

(68:26 – 70:13)

• Emily points out that proactive engagement with sex workers—guaranteed immunity—could have solved the case years earlier.

• The lack of institutional will and prioritization of marginalized victims led to prolonged tragedy.

  "If the police department wasn't so corrupt… and they just issued something that said, look, there is a serial killer… We just want to get information without any repercussions of being arrested… This could have been solved years ago."
  – Emily Simpson (69:40)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Shane on witness letters:
  "You've been nice for a couple years… I don't know why someone would get a lesser sentence. Because they've been nice for a couple years." (08:18)
• Emily on the tragedy of ignored victims:
  "There are so many times when you read these stories… you're just so sad because they're in dire straits, trying to survive and just stay alive with a roof over their head." (36:01)
• Shane on serial killer evolution:
  "You get older and he started to get lazy… I mean, this dismembering thing, it's really tolling." (50:44)
• Emily on evidence preservation:
  "What if that chief of police, like, threw away that interview? … That would have been a huge different outcome. And I never thought of that." (87:06)
• Shane on solution speed:
  "If you don't have a corrupt police chief… you could have solved this murder 12 years ago." (86:53)
• Dark Humor:
  "He has these 70s style glasses on… the serial killer glasses—you get them at the serial killer store, right?"
  – Emily Simpson (37:39)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Diddy Case & Man Act: 03:05 – 09:51
• Shannan Gilbert & Case Genesis: 16:14 – 24:25
• Finding the Gilgo Four: 21:24 – 32:36
• Victimology & Witness Accounts: 35:30 – 41:11
• Dismemberment & Killer Evolution: 41:11 – 44:22; 49:19 – 51:19
• Shannan Gilbert’s Discovery & Police Dismissal: 53:23 – 56:34
• Suffolk County Corruption Overview: 54:57 – 70:31
• Task Force, File Digitization, and Heuermann's Arrest: 75:18 – 81:29
• Trial Status & Defense Strategy: 81:30 – 86:22
• Reflections & Takeaways: 86:53 – 87:52

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Final Thoughts & Reflections

Emily and Shane emphasize that systemic corruption, disregard for sex workers, and insular police politics left a killer at large for more than a decade—a tragedy that may have claimed more lives. The piece concludes on a note of hope that, going forward, law enforcement will prioritize both technological progress and community engagement, echoing the importance of every victim’s life.

"If you have any other cases that you would like us to talk about, I'm always happy to take your suggestions. So thank you guys for listening. We appreciate it."
– Emily Simpson (87:52)

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This episode stands out for its thorough narrative, relatable hosts, and clear advocacy for investigative reform—woven seamlessly with gripping true crime detail and just enough courtroom banter.

Transcript

[Emily Simpson]

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[Shane Simpson]

No. Is he, is he still a dirt bag, right?

[Emily Simpson]

Yes. That did not change that.

[Shane Simpson]

I don't need to update.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay. Well, what's going on right now is that Diddy's defense team is arguing that the man act, which is how he was convicted now you do remember that the large charges against him like the racket, racketeering, conspiracy and the trafficking all went away and then all that was left that he's going to be because he's still in jail, he has to be sentenced, but he's just going to be sentenced under the smaller charges anyway. His defense team is arguing that the man act is unconstitutional and that was what he was convicted under as far as transporting. Remember, he was just convicted of transporting prostitutes or sex acts whatever whatever. The man act, also known as the White Slave Traffic act, is a law that prohibits the transportation of individuals across state lines or international borders with intent that such individual engage in prostitution or any sexual activity. So the law has a very broad wording and subsequent Supreme Court interpretation has allowed prosecutors to bring cases against this is in the past unlawful, premarital, extramarital and interracial couples. So basically they are arguing, his defense team is arguing that this is basically an outdated, you know, act that has roots in racism that was really had Broad language so that you could target interracial couples. And it was used with R. Kelly. That's how he was convicted. He was convicted under the Man Act. Okay, so Combs defense team is arguing. So they argued back in February that the man act has a racist history, claiming that he was targeted for being a powerful black man. And what was racist in its inception has often been racist in its operation. That's what they. The legal team claims. His attorney said this in a court filing, claiming that no white person had faced a similar prosecution with the Man Act. Now the question is, what if it is deemed to be unconstitutional?

[Shane Simpson]

Well, I don't know. Does age have anything? Age alone doesn't make it like to eliminate it because it's like, well, murder's been illegal for thousand years. Throw that out.

[Emily Simpson]

I guess when you look back at the intent of the law when it was enacted, the purpose was to possibly target interracial couples. And are we now using it to prosecute a black man? And that is what they're.

[Shane Simpson]

I'm not.

[Emily Simpson]

No, no. But I'm. When I say we, I mean the prosecution. Is that.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

Is that the intent there? If it's deemed to be unconstitutional, what are the after effects? I mean, R. Kelly was convicted under it.

[Shane Simpson]

Does he get out?

[Emily Simpson]

Also, just a little other update on the Diddy case. Do you remember when we were talking about Diddy earlier and there was another victim? She was. She was named victim number three in the indictment and that she was supposed to testify. She was subpoenaed to testify, and then.

[Shane Simpson]

She then backed down or disappeared?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, the prosecution was like, they. They couldn't get a hold of her. She quit responding. Her attorney quit responding on her behalf. So basically, she ended up MIA a no show. So victim number three in the indictment, her name is Gina, and she previously identified in court documents as victim number three. However, Gina has now submitted a letter to a New York judge in support of Diddy, asking that he be granted bail. She's asking the judge to consider Combs's role as a family man and allow him to remain free while under court supervision. In the letter, which was filed by Combs's defense team back on August 3, Gina described Diddy as someone who had worked to better himself, noting that although. Although their relationship had had its challenges, Combs has shown growth over time. She wrote, quote, he was willing to acknowledge his mistakes and make a better decisions in the future, adding that by the end of our relationship, he had developed an energy of love, patience, and gentleness. And do you remember we also talked about this in an earlier episode, how he had. And I'm sure this is in response to all the lawsuits that were coming out against him. But remember, you know, he's changed his name multiple times. He was like Puff Daddy, and then he became P. Diddy. And then I think his most recent name change was he changed his name to, like, Love Sean Love Combs, or something like that. So Gina goes on to emphasize that Combs had not been violent in years and called him cooperative and respectful throughout the legal process, allowing him.

[Shane Simpson]

I'm sorry to interrupt.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, wow.

[Shane Simpson]

You've been nice for a couple years.

[Emily Simpson]

You were. He was very well behaved.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah. So why he still committed all that he did? That's ridiculous. I don't know why someone would get a lesser sentence. Because they've been nice for a couple years.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. Like, when you're Can. Like when you're going to court and convicting someone, and then they're like. But you know what, your honor, I. I was nice this week.

[Shane Simpson]

Geez.

[Emily Simpson]

I'm gonna say that at the reunion. I'm gonna be like, look, I was nice today.

[Shane Simpson]

Off camera. I was very nice.

[Emily Simpson]

Despite being referenced in the indictment, Gina never testified during Combs trial because prosecutors told the court that they had lost contact with her and her attorney. Well, now that we know, I mean, she's writing a letter on his behalf and sending it to the judge that his defense team is submitting it. She's saying that he's, you know, this changed man, and he's all full of love and, you know, warmth and cuddliness. Now, clearly, she didn't have. I. I don't know. I mean, I can. I can guess what happened.

[Shane Simpson]

What happened?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I mean, this is just a legend. It's just my opinion, but I assume that he had some kind of contact with her.

[Shane Simpson]

Oh, yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

Either she's scared, or we should.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah, we either check her bank account.

[Emily Simpson]

Or she's gaining something substantial. So. And that's just my opinion. I don't know that for a fact, but I would assume anyone who doesn't show up to court to testify and then writes a letter on his behalf talking about what a wonderful person he is, has been affected.

[Shane Simpson]

The witness that went on the stand and said, you know, no, your honor, Mr. Gotti is a wonderful man, and I hope my children are inspired by him, and he's such a kind father.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane Simpson]

I don't know what you're talking about, because that's what they did on the stand.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, yeah.

[Shane Simpson]

For John Gotti. They would literally be like, no. Yeah. No, he's a great guy. I don't know. Yeah, I saw him in the alley the other day. He was great.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. Because they had visits.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

Prior to.

[Shane Simpson]

Absolutely. Yeah. And I would have done the same thing.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. You're gonna protect your family. You're gonna protect yourself.

[Shane Simpson]

At the end of the day, Myself.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh, well, right. We already discussed this when we were Talking about the Idaho 4 murders where I was saying, please do not sleep in the bed while I'm getting attacked.

[Shane Simpson]

I promise.

[Emily Simpson]

That's it. That's all I want you to say. All right.

[Shane Simpson]

It wasn't in our marriage vows, was it?

[Emily Simpson]

Well, it is now. We're gonna. We're gonna amend our marriage vows, and I would like include self defense. I an amendment that Shane has to. If I am attacked in the middle of the night, that he has to intervene.

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[Emily Simpson]

All right, let's move on to this is such an interesting case. I found myself obsessed again and just researching constantly. Shane says I researched too much, but do I do maybe? Anyway, let's move on to and it took me a while to figure this out, but the Gilgo beach murders is the same as the Long Island Serial killer. So if you see anything on Netflix or Hulu about the Gilgo beach murders, it is the same as long as the Long Island Serial killer. It just took a long time to.

[Shane Simpson]

Put the two together.

[Emily Simpson]

To put the two together. And now obviously here we are and we've put the two together and they're all connected. So let's go through the Gilgo beach murders and the Long Island Serial killer. All right, let's do a little background of the case and just get through some facts.

[Shane Simpson]

Gilgo beach is the name of the location. The beach. Right. It's not the name of the serial killer?

[Emily Simpson]

No. Okay.

[Shane Simpson]

I just wanted to make sure that was clear.

[Emily Simpson]

The Gilgo beach serial killings involve a string of unsolved murders, primarily targeting women, many of whom were sex workers, whose remains were discovered along a remote stretch of ocean parkway near Gilgo Beach, Long Island. And this happened. These were discovered between 2010 and 2011. Now, the catalyst of finding these four bodies on Gilgo beach was a woman named Shannon Gilbert. And so I feel like this story really has to start with Shannon and how this whole investigation and how all of these bodies became known. Okay, so Shannon Gilbert has an appointment to meet with a client in Long Island. And when I say client, she's a sex worker. Yeah. Is that what they're called? John. So to meet with John? I don't know.

[Shane Simpson]

Don't act like you don't know. I don't know.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know. But okay, a John. So she has a driver named Michael Pack, who I assume is just a friend or something, and obviously, you know, you don't want to go alone. She drives to Long island to meet with her client. Michael Pack is her driver. And he's like sitting in the driveway at this house, this home, it's in Oak Beach. And she's inside with the client. Then she, for some reason, we don't know this is where the mystery unfolds. But something happens inside this house. We don't know what it is, but she calls 911 and she's freaking out. And it's actually like a 20 minute phone call to 91 1. They actually released the entire, you know, phone call at some point in time. But when she calls, she says things like, they are trying to kill me. They're going to kill me. They're after me. Things like that.

[Shane Simpson]

She says they.

[Emily Simpson]

She says they. As far as the investigation goes, she was just meeting with the one man in the house. Apparently, she runs out of the house and she runs by her driver, Michael Pack. He sees her running around and I think he tries to get her to get into the car, and she won't get into the car.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

Then she runs to a neighbor's house who is an elderly man. She knocks on the door. He lets her in. He says that she, like, jumps in the house and she's in the hallway inside his house, and he's. And she's like, they're gonna get me all these things. And he's like, stay here. And I think he turns around for a second to maybe pick up a phone or something. And she runs out of the house. And then he's looking out of his window and he sees her and she's darting behind his car and she's hiding under his. A boat, you know, because this is Long Island. You know, there's beach and he has a boat. She's hiding behind it. He sees her crouching. He calls the police. Then she runs to another woman's house, an elderly woman. And she knocks on the door. The Elderly woman won't let her in, which I understand.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah, yeah. She doesn't know what's going on.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. You don't know if that's a ruse or what to get some, you know, someone to open your door. But that woman calls the police as well. So you've got like three phone calls going to the police at this time. Then Michael pack her driver, I guess he looks for her for a little bit and then he, he's just like, he can't find her. So he leaves and drives back to Manhattan or wherever.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

And leaves her behind. And then eventually the police show up, they can't find her. And so this woman.

[Shane Simpson]

Oh, that's the end of it. That's.

[Emily Simpson]

Well at that time.

[Shane Simpson]

That's her disappearance.

[Emily Simpson]

That's her disappearance. So terrible. The man who she met with the client.

[Shane Simpson]

Wish she stayed in that house.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know. You know, that is what is so sad about the whole Shannon Gilbert case is that there are so many opportunities for her to save herself. And I don't understand what happened. It is such a mystery to me because one Michael Pax sees her and tries to get her in the car and she doesn't jump in the car, she's inside of the neighbor's home and he tells her to wait here as he calls the police and she runs out the front door again.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

And there's just these opportunities for her to have.

[Shane Simpson]

Clearly she was panicky, panicky, panicky.

[Emily Simpson]

So Shannon Gilbert disappears. So the, the investigation begins with a search for missing escort Shannon Gilbert, leading police to uncover at least 11 sets of human remains, including the so called Gilgo 4, who were all found wrapped in burlap and exhibited similar patterns of disposal. So what happens is the police go, they search around and they can't find her.

[Shane Simpson]

Right.

[Emily Simpson]

And then they kind of just drop it and let it go.

[Shane Simpson]

Well, and the fact that she was just running around, she was running around. It's not like they said she was bloody or we heard gunshots. It was just she was running around and then she left.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. So then her mother's name is Mary and her mother is a huge advocate and she is just constantly out there saying, where is my daughter? Where is my daughter? She won't let it go. Which I give her credit for that she kept it alive and she kept it in the media. So the media is constantly, you know, talking about where Shannon Gilbert, what happened to her, what's going on. So the police do investigate again and do a very thorough search with dogs. And this is when they find the four bodies on Gilgo Beach. So they're out walking around with dog. You know, dog.

[Shane Simpson]

Cadaver dogs.

[Emily Simpson]

Cadaver dogs, yes. Thank you. And a dog signals and they find a body, and they find a body wrapped in burlap. And then they're searching around and they find another body.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah, I think the four bodies. Four, Four. And I think I read that they were half a mile apart from each other.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. So they're all along this stretch of beach. They're all similar as far as they're all. They were disposed the way of their disposed, the way they're wrapped in burlap, the way they look, and the fact.

[Shane Simpson]

That known sex workers are believed to be. Well, were they? I don't know.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes, they all were.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

I mean, once they ID them and they know that, but at the time, they just find four sets of remains that are in a similar area. And this is all because they were looking for Shannon Gilbert. Now, once those four bodies are ID'd, not one of those women is Shannon Gilbert. However, they do discover that they're all sex workers. They're all women, they're all in their 20s, and they're all petite. So now it's like, okay, now we have a serial killer because.

[Shane Simpson]

Right. Because there's too many similarities.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane Simpson]

So now, was Shannon Gilbert also described as. They were like, petite and whatnot?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. So that's.

[Shane Simpson]

So does she fit that same profile?

[Emily Simpson]

The same profile. So Shannon Gilbert was also a sex worker. She had. She had postings on Craigslist that men would respond to. She was Also in her 20s, she was young, she was petite. So she fit that description. However, she was not one of those four. But the search for Shannon, which was really dictated by her mom because I don't think this police. Suffolk county police would probably not interested in looking for her at all.

[Shane Simpson]

If not, they're probably upset. They're like, damn, now we have to get.

[Emily Simpson]

My mom won't stop talking about it. We have to, like, go out here.

[Shane Simpson]

A lot of paperwork now.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. The names of the Go Go four are Melissa Bartholomew, Amber Costello, Megan Waterman, and Maureen Brainard Barnes. All of these women, like Shannon, worked as online escorts and went missing between 2007 and 2010. Let's just go through a timeline, because a timeline is really important in this case because there are large gaps of time where nothing happens at all, which.

[Shane Simpson]

Is kind of one of the main issues.

[Emily Simpson]

Which is a. Which is a main issue. Exactly. And then I. To talk about why nothing was happening at all. And then finally, in the end, how they ended up catching this guy, which is all very interesting. So in May 1, 2010, Shannon Gilbert disappears. She's traveling to Oak Beach. Now, one other thing about this client, when they were investigating and searching for her, they did give him a polygraph.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay, so the John is known.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, they know who he is. They went to his house, they questioned him. Apparently they gave him a lie detector test.

[Shane Simpson]

What was his story? What was his. His version of the events?

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know. I couldn't. There. There wasn't a lot of detail about that, at least in what I've read and what I saw. It was more of like, he doesn't know what happened. And she just kind of like freaked out. And he was trying to get her out of the house. He actually went to Michael Pack, the driver, and said, can you get this girl out of my house?

[Shane Simpson]

Really?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane Simpson]

So Michael Pack says, well, I, that's.

[Emily Simpson]

I believe that's what Michael Pack says. And the guy they questioned, it was basically like he was saying, get her out, she won't leave. Get her out of my house.

[Shane Simpson]

But, but earlier you described as she ran out.

[Emily Simpson]

She did.

[Shane Simpson]

So did Michael Pax here run out of the house?

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know. Those. The whole situation that night is very convoluted and blurry for me. I don't know if there's a clear picture of what actually happened with Shannon Gilbert. It was just, you've got these players. You've got Michael Pack who drove her. You've got Shannon Gilbert who went to Oak beach for a client. And then you've got the client, you've got the client saying that she freaked out in the house and that she was acting weird and that he just wanted her to leave. And you've got Michael Pax saying, she's running around everywhere. I couldn't catch her, I couldn't find her, so I just left. And then you've got a 20 minute, 911 call of her saying, they're going to kill me. So I don't know. It's. I mean, it's a mystery.

[Shane Simpson]

I don't know what happened in that unsolved crime.

[Emily Simpson]

I have no idea.

[Shane Simpson]

What if Michael Pack and Mr. John were in cahoot boots together and they are the they?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane Simpson]

You know, not that we have any facts to support that.

[Emily Simpson]

We don't. But I don't know.

[Shane Simpson]

Just throwing that out.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. Now, this is May 1st of 2010. May through November of 2010. Little progress is made in finding Shannon, despite some Searching by police and private investigators which were hired by her own family. Gilbert remains missing for months now. December 11, 2010, the first body is found. That's while searching for Gilbert's body along Ocean Parkway. A Suffolk county police officer and his cadaver dog discover human remains near Gilgo beach. And then the remains. The first remains are later identified as Melissa Bartholomew. Melissa Bartholomew went missing on July 10, 2009. She was a 24 year old sex worker and was last seen at her apartment in the Bronx in New York City. She told her friend she was going to see a man and that she will be back in the morning. Cell phone data from her phone puts her last known location somewhere on Long Island. Days later, a man begins using her cell phone to make taunting phone calls to her relatives. That was another thing that this serial killer did was there were a couple instances where he would use the girl's cell phone after the fact to call their friends and family.

[Shane Simpson]

To say. To get more recruitment or no, to.

[Emily Simpson]

Say, like to taunt them to. He's sadistic. I mean, he would say things like, do you know where your sister is? And this is what I did to her and I saw your friend in a whorehouse and you know, Long island and wow.

[Honey German]

Hola. It's honey German here. Let's be honest. In our comunida, especially us mujeres, we do it all. We work, we take care of la familia, we hustle. Nada. But even the strongest need a break. That's why I love talking about real stuff on my podcast. Gracias. Come again. Because we're all out here doing our best and sometimes having aligning into esquina. Eso ac toda la diferencia. Like a State Farm agent, they're the kind of gente that shows up, listens and helps you get the coverage you need. It's not about needing help. It's about knowing. Knowing you deserve to feel supported. Comon buen besino State Farm esta I. State Farm proudly supports Michael Dura podcast network Escucha to shows favorito wherever you listen to your podcasts. Before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more, well, fun. But here's a confession. Dirty rush listeners. You can find that fun feeling again on ebay. It's not mindless scrolling. It's a fashion pursuit. I love using filters for condition and price saving searches and spotting verified listings. It makes shopping feel smart and exciting again. And when you score that rare Adidas collab or that dior saddlebag you've been manifesting. It's a rush. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by ebay's Authenticity Guarantee. EBAY Things People Love Support for the.

[Public Podcast Sponsor]

Show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures if you haven't.

[Groons Podcast Sponsor]

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[Emily Simpson]

So after they discover Melissa, who is the first person, they discover three more bodies in Gilgo Beach. It's Marine Brainerd Barnes, Megan Waterman, and Amber Lynn Costello. Their remains were located within a short distance of each other in the brush just off the highway and had all been wrapped in burlap sacks. Then there were other remains found in a different part of Long Island. And they did not initially think that.

[Shane Simpson]

They did not make a connection initially.

[Emily Simpson]

Not initially because they were not wrapped in burlap. It was different. They were dismembered. They found dismembered parts. So it was like, you know, normally, I'm just speaking from a serial killer perspective. I'm trying to put with all your experience, my experience as a serial killer, they do the same things, right?

[Shane Simpson]

I would think so.

[Emily Simpson]

So when you find four bodies that.

[Shane Simpson]

Are wrapped in burlap, that's significantly different. One's kind of neatly wrapped, using only the word neatly, loosely.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane Simpson]

And the other one's clearly gruesome.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. So they were thinking these are two different.

[Shane Simpson]

I would have thought so things.

[Emily Simpson]

Maureen Brainard Barnes, who is one of the Go Go 4, was last heard from by a friend on July 9, 2007. She was 25 and had traveled to New York City from her home in Norwich, Connecticut, for sex work. She said she was leaving her hotel to meet a client. Investigators later say cell phone records showed her phone was last used on Long Island.

[Shane Simpson]

So it's kind of interesting. We're going backwards. They're finding these. They were looking for Shannon.

[Emily Simpson]

They're looking for Shannon.

[Shane Simpson]

Shannon initially.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane Simpson]

In 2010.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane Simpson]

Because she goes missing in 2010.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane Simpson]

But then as a result, they found four bodies that went back further as far as their missing dates.

[Emily Simpson]

Exactly.

[Shane Simpson]

And then the Long island bodies they find that were dismembered are even further back.

[Emily Simpson]

Are even further back into the 90s. Right.

[Shane Simpson]

Wow.

[Emily Simpson]

So Maureen was a single mother of two. Her sister named Missy received a call from Maureen the night of July 9th from Penn Station in midtown Manhattan. In an interview in 2020, the sister told 48 Hours. Maureen said she was going to take the train at midnight. And then her sister never saw or heard from Maureen again. Another victim is named Megan Waterman. Megan Waterman was 22 and had traveled to Long island from Maine for sexual sex work. She was last seen at a motel in Hoppage, New York on June 6, 2010. Liliana Waterman was just three years old when her mother disappeared. In her first televised interview in 2020, the daughter told 48 Hours that if she could talk to her mom, she would tell her how much she loves her. Now Amber Costello ends up being the reason that they catch the serial killer. So she just, it's her, her story is just, just more in depth because 27 year old Amberlynn Costello was last seen leaving her home in West Babylon to meet with a client on September 2, 2010. The client asked her to leave her phone and purse at home in return for a very hefty fee.

[Shane Simpson]

Supposedly that's a flag if I ever saw one.

[Emily Simpson]

Supposedly the fee, this is what I've learned, was fifteen hundred dollars, but it was six times her hourly rate.

[Shane Simpson]

So.

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know why, like under.

[Shane Simpson]

What scenario would the, would she think that that's a, like a, like he's kinky, he doesn't want cell phones around.

[Emily Simpson]

Like, I don't know, I just, there's.

[Shane Simpson]

I'd be like money up front. Dude.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, there's.

[Shane Simpson]

He probably didn't even have the 1500.

[Emily Simpson]

There's so many times when you read these stories and this, this, these decisions that these women made that you're just so sad because, well, they're in dire.

[Shane Simpson]

Straits, trying to survive and just, you know.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane Simpson]

Stay alive with so roof over her head.

[Emily Simpson]

What's interesting about Amberlynn Costello, her story is that she had met with this same client a couple weeks prior and he had come to her house. Now Amberlynn Costello lives with roomies. And one of them, his name is Dave Schaller and the other one is named Bear Brodski. Two males she meets with the same client, the same one who offered her the hefty fee. She had met with him weeks prior to that and he had come to the house and Dave and Bear were not there. She was home alone. Apparently the arrangement was she was only supposed to dance for this client. She was not supposed to have sex with him that evening. However, he wanted to have sex with her and I guess he was getting handsy with her instead of just doing like a lap dance or whatever. And she locked herself in the bathroom and she calls her Roommate. They come home and they encounter this guy inside the house. And they say he's like a six foot four, ogre looking guy. He's huge. He's tall. He's got these 70s style glasses on. He's got bushy hair, he's got beady eyes. They have a kind of an altercation with them where they're like, get out of the house. And they're like pushing him out.

[Shane Simpson]

Glasses on.

[Emily Simpson]

No, like 70 style glasses. Like he had a very distinct look.

[Shane Simpson]

Like Jeffrey Dahmer glasses.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, like that.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, the serial killer glasses. You get them at the serial killer store, right?

[Shane Simpson]

Yes.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. So they see him, they have an altercation with him, and these two roommates of hers are physically pushing him out. And they say that like he was freaky, they got bad vibes from him. He.

[Shane Simpson]

I saw that part. So you were watching this in bed? Because that's what you do at night. You watch.

[Emily Simpson]

I watch.

[Shane Simpson]

She watched true crime in bed. Then she falls asleep to it and leaves it on all night long.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane Simpson]

And then she wonders why she has anxiety throughout the day.

[Emily Simpson]

No.

[Shane Simpson]

Anyway, I did, and I remember they were saying how he, he almost covered the whole, like filled the whole door frame.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane Simpson]

And they said like, I guess they were trying to make contact with them or tell them to leave or whatever they were doing. But they said he would never make eye contact with them. Like he was looking through them or past them. And never took his eyes off of her.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane Simpson]

Like he was. He had a target.

[Emily Simpson]

They get him out of the house and he gets into an avalanche. Which by the way, is a very. It's. What were you saying earlier? If you're going to be a serial killer, what kind of car should you drive? Not an avalanche.

[Shane Simpson]

No, you should drive like a, like a gray bluish medium sized suv.

[Emily Simpson]

Because it's just. Because then it's like generic.

[Shane Simpson]

And what was he driving? What color was it? Well, it was like a black or dark or gray. What kind of car was it? I don't know. It's like a minivan suv. Like you can't.

[Emily Simpson]

So you're saying that's the most generic?

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah, no one's gonna be like, it was a charcoal gray RAV4, right? Yeah, no one's gonna say that.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, this guy gets into an avalanche and it's. They. They called a first generation avalanche. But is there a second generation avalanche? I don't.

[Shane Simpson]

I don't think think so.

[Emily Simpson]

I feel like they ended it with the first generation avalanche. Then after this occurs, the Same guy, the same client that they had kicked out that night reaches back out to Amber Costello again and this is when he pays her a hefty fee to come and meet him.

[Shane Simpson]

Wait, wait, this same John reaches out to her and wants a second. A follow up, like.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes, session.

[Shane Simpson]

Yes, but this time without. Oh yeah, and. And remove the locks from the bathroom doors, please, for an extra fifteen hundred dollars.

[Emily Simpson]

And make sure your roommates aren't home.

[Shane Simpson]

No kidding.

[Emily Simpson]

So that's when she leaves. And.

[Shane Simpson]

And I'm not faulting her, but she agreed to this.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. So the roommate Dave knows that she meets this client. She know he knows that he drives an Avalanche.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

That's the last time she's ever seen or heard from again.

[Shane Simpson]

Wow.

[Emily Simpson]

So.

[Shane Simpson]

And did she leave her cell phone at home?

[Emily Simpson]

She did, yeah. So now Dave interviews with the police and he tells the police this is when. When she disappears in 2010. Right. He tells the police exactly what happened. The guy was creep me out. He's 6 foot 4, he drives the Avalanche, it's dark green. Like he gives specific details as to the last person that he saw her with.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

However, nothing happens for like 12 years or something. Anyway, let's go on through this timeline. So March to April of 2011, there's further remains that are found. So authorities widen their search and find additional remains, including a toddler, an Asian male, and skulls and limbs linked to partial remains found years earlier. The scope of the case grows now involving multiple victims with varying backgrounds, the male and female.

[Shane Simpson]

Cloth feeling too, or something I thought I saw.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, and that is true. And that's what makes me. Because when you say, okay, well, one's a male, that doesn't make sense. That doesn't fit the profile. But allegedly, or apparently according to what I've read and what they've revealed was that he was dressed in women's clothing. The toddler though, doesn't make sense. Other than all I could think was maybe she brought her kid with her for some reason. Yeah, because her profile fits as far as like age and you know, height and like all those. But there was. But her daughter ended up being a victim as well.

[Shane Simpson]

Collateral damage, Right?

[Emily Simpson]

So there's a Jane Doe number five who later is identified as Jessica Taylor. First partial skeletal remains of Jessica Taylor were discovered in a wooded area of Manorville, New York back on July 26, 2003. Then on March 29th of 2011, more of Taylor's remains were discovered along Ocean Parkway. She was 20 when she vanished and had been an escort working in New York City. She was found dismembered with identifying tattoos, mutilated in an apparent attempt to obscure her identity. So the question is, are these, are these body parts that are found later in a different area? It's called Manorville, but it's still on Long Island. You know, initially they thought it was two different serial killers. However, the argument can be made, and I, I think this was said that serial killers evolve like, like they get bored, they change, they, you know, they hone in their skills or they, they.

[Shane Simpson]

Venture out into new. Yeah, they ways of killing.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. So there you go, Jane Doe number six.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

Who.

[Shane Simpson]

Because a lot of time has passed, right?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. So Jane Doe number six, who is later identified as Valerie Mack. First, the partial skeletal remains of Valerie Mack are found, who had been working as an escort in Philadelphia, and her remains were found in a wooded area in Manorville, New York. This is in September of 2000. The 24 year old was last seen by her family in the spring or summer of the year 2000 in Port Republic, New Jersey. Then on April 4, 2011, additional remains of Valerie Mack were found along Ocean Parkway. Okay, so these bodies that were actually found after the Gilgo 4, they were actually murdered before. They just, they're, they were discovered, the remains were discovered after, however, they were murdered first. So the question is, because now we know that it was all the same person. In the beginning when he was murdering people, he was dismembering them. Then when you find the Gilgo Four who were murdered later, he's wrapping them in burlap. So that's the evolution. And you were saying that maybe it was just too, it was too much work. Yeah, I would think of this.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah, maybe it was gruesome, maybe real. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe. Who knows? Who knows what goes on in these people's heads? Yeah, because I don't know, why would you even wrap them in burlap? Like, why would you, if you have no, you know, regard for human life, you're just going to kill these people? Why would you even bother wrapping them up?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, I don't know. That's a question for us here.

[Shane Simpson]

What is there. Obviously they had some reason. What is their thinking?

[Emily Simpson]

I don't, I don't know. And you know what else? I don't know. And I don't know if this was ever figured out because I didn't see it or read it or hear it anywhere, but I don't know where the actual killings took place because he discards their body throughout Long Island. But where is he actually killing them?

[Shane Simpson]

We're trying to make sense out of psychos.

[Emily Simpson]

That's very true.

[Shane Simpson]

It's kind of tough.

[Freddie Prinze Jr.]

Hey, I'm Freddie Prinze Jr. And I talk a lot about twists, turns and the unexpected moments that happen inside the ring on Wrestling with Freddy. But the one thing I've learned Never turn your back on your opponents in the ring unless you have your tag partner with you. It helps to have backup, like real life backup, the kind you can call when life throws you something unexpected. That's when I recommend you reach out to your State Farm agent. They can help you choose the coverage you need before anything happens, and they're ready to help you file a claim when it does. When it's something out of the ordinary or just part of everyday life, it's good to know someone's in your corner. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. And thanks to State Farm's support of Michael Tura Podcast Network, you can catch new episodes of Wrestling with Freddy wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Honey German]

Before all the algorithm fed blah and the endless sea of dupes, shopping used to feel more, well, fun. But here's a confession Dirty Rush listeners, you can find that fun feeling again on ebay. It's not mindless scrolling, it's a fashion pursuit. I love using filters for condition and price saving searches and spotting verified listings. It makes shopping feel smart and exciting again. And when you score that rare Adidas Collab or that Dior saddlebag you've been manifesting in, it's a rush. Ebay has millions of pre loved finds from hundreds of brands backed by eBay's authenticity guarantee. EBay Things People Love Support for the.

[Public Podcast Sponsor]

Show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your profile prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures if you haven't.

[Groons Podcast Sponsor]

Heard us talk about Groons yet, get ready. These are not your basic vitamins. Groons is a daily nutrition game changer. It's not just a multivitamin, not just grains, not just a prebiotic. It's all of that in one delicious routine. You get a daily snack pack of gummies because honestly, you can't fit all that goodness into just one. Inside each pack is 6 grams of prebiotic fiber, 20 plus vitamins and minerals, and 60 plus ingredients which include nutrient dense and whole foods to support gut health, beauty, energy, immunity, recovery and cognition. They're vegan, gluten free, low sugar or sugar free and the ingredients are backed by over 35,000 research publications. No powders, no mixing, no weird aftertaste, just a grab and go wellness routine you'll actually stick to. Whether you're on the go, on a fitness kick or just trying to stay balanced between coffee and chaos, Groons keeps it simple and delicious. Get up to 52% off with the code TEAPOT at Groons co. That's code TEAPOT@G R U N S.CO.

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[Emily Simpson]

So then there was another victim that was killed earlier than the Gilgo 4, but found later than the Gilgo 4 was. First they called her Peaches because she had an identifying tattoo of Peaches on her. She was later identified as Tanya Jackson. She was an army veteran. The thing is she doesn't fit the sex worker scenario. But this was also in 1997, so.

[Shane Simpson]

Again but the male didn't either. So maybe this guy just calls him up and whatever, you know he has a certain like but if they send someone else or ends up being a little bit he's not going to be like, never mind, I'm not going to kill you because you're not petite.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, the way, the way it looks to me as we go through these, these earlier murders that happened where these body parts were dismembered and they were found in a different area of Long island, it seems to me that's when maybe he didn't know exactly what he was doing. He didn't have like. He wasn't systematic.

[Shane Simpson]

He didn't have a plan.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. Because it's later when the Gilgo 4 are discovered that it's systematic. It's like very similar. He has it, he has it down. He like contacts a sex worker from an anonymous email. He meets them. They all look the same. They're all young, they're all petite. He wraps them in burlap. It's like in the beginning, maybe, maybe it's chaotic.

[Shane Simpson]

You know, you get older and he started to get lazy.

[Emily Simpson]

He's lazy.

[Shane Simpson]

So he's like, I'm this dismembering thing. It's really tolling.

[Emily Simpson]

One, it might be sex workers because it's easy to contact them. And they come to me.

[Shane Simpson]

Absolutely.

[Emily Simpson]

And two, a lot of these women.

[Shane Simpson]

That are already off the grid.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. That are sex workers are probably sex workers because they might have had a falling out with family and like they're.

[Shane Simpson]

On the streets, for lack of better words. Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

And then they're petite. So it's easy for me to over, you know, to overtake them very easily and, you know, anyway.

[Shane Simpson]

And, and was burlap a bag, like a potato sack?

[Emily Simpson]

That's what burlap is. Yeah.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay. So they maybe to fit in the burlap.

[Emily Simpson]

Maybe. All right. Baby Doe is another body that's found. That's the toddler that was found. And it's later identified as Tanya Jackson's daughter. Near, so near the remains of Valerie Mack. Investigators also find the remains of a two year old girl, later identified through DNA as Tatiana Dykes, who is Tanya Jackson's daughter. She was found wrapped in a blanket and showed no signs of trauma.

[Shane Simpson]

She probably brought her child. Yes, she needed to. She was watching over them.

[Honey German]

Her.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane Simpson]

And then unfortunately, the child madman just killed her too.

[Emily Simpson]

John Doe, who is still unidentified up to right now in present time. His body was found on April 4, 2011 along Ocean Parkway in. He is believed to be an Asian male, possibly in his late teens or early 20s. And he was found wearing women's clothes. And the cause of death was blunt force trauma. And then there is another Unidentified body, Jane Doe number seven. Her skull was found on April 11, 2011, off of Ocean Parkway. It matched a pair of legs which were found in April of 1996 on Fire island, which is east of Gilgo Beach.

[Shane Simpson]

Okay, so is it fair to say that. But in simple terms, they find the four bodies as a result of Shannon's mother pressing for.

[Emily Simpson]

For looking for Shannon, for her search. Right.

[Shane Simpson]

They find four bodies that are all similar.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane Simpson]

Then they search even further, and sometime later, they find older murdered bodies.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane Simpson]

That were completely in a different. In a different fashion.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane Simpson]

Murdered and dismembered and spread out. And so they didn't make the connection between the two.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, originally, the police chief comes out and does, like, a press conference and says, we don't think that they're related.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

So. But they end up figuring out later that. That they are. So finally we get to the point where we have found. They find Shannon Gilbert, finally.

[Shane Simpson]

Oh, okay, good.

[Emily Simpson]

So after she's dead. Well, she's. She is dead. So in December 13th of 2011, Shannon Gilbert's body is finally found. Long after. After a year and a half of searching, police locate Shannon Gilbert's remains in a marsh about a half mile from where she was last seen in Oak Beach. Her body is found near her belongings, which had been discovered earlier. Police were reluctant to search the marsh for a long time, claiming that it was a difficult task. Ultimately, Suffolk county police declared Gilbert's death accidental, suggesting that she died from drowning or exposure after a mental health episode.

[Shane Simpson]

So in a marsh?

[Emily Simpson]

Yes.

[Shane Simpson]

No one's out there in a marsh, like, just chilling and then they drown.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, they. They claim that her death was accidental and not part of this, you know, serial killer, because she was found in the marsh. And they. They refused to search the marsh in the beginning because they said it was, too.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah, I imagine.

[Emily Simpson]

And they. The mercy. And they didn't want to take, you know, people and. And equipment and things out there. Well, the mother. Good for her. Being relentless. They actually did finally search this marsh, which was right in the area where she disappeared. Right. It's right next to the house where she was. They find her, and she has no pants on. So they find her jeans. They find, I think, a purse or a wallet, and then they find the body. But then they declare it as an accidental death. Like she just got hypothermia or something. And then they also say something. It's just like, that's ridiculous.

[Shane Simpson]

Why? Like she had her pants off and it was an accidental death.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. And that, you Know, they said, you know, sometimes when you have hypothermia, you get hot. You feel like you're hot. So she probably took her pants off because she was hot. And I'm like, yeah, well, this girl.

[Shane Simpson]

Why someone's in a marsh to begin with?

[Emily Simpson]

This girl's not out running around scared for her life, like, knocking on doors and screaming, and then just. And takes her pants off in a marsh. Like, clearly, to me, it looks like foul play. The medical examiner said that she died. I. I don't know. I think they might have even said inconclusive, but they did not say that there was foul play or homicide. So Shannon Gilbert's mom, Mary Gilbert, has her own independent counsel, and then they have their own medical examiner examine the body. So an independent autopsy. This is done later, suggested that possible homicidal strangulation had occurred, further fueling speculation that she was a victim of the same killer. Here's the thing. So she's in that house with the john, who is not the serial killer that killed all of these other women. Or allegedly, he's. He's going on trial soon, but allegedly killed all these other people. It is not the same person. And he has not been known to work in cahoots with anyone else. So it is such a mystery as to what happened in that house that night that she freaks out, calls 91 1, says, they're trying to kill me, runs around in the same area where all these other women have been murdered who are sex workers. She's a sex worker, and she fits the profile. They find her dead in a marsh, and then they claim it was an accidental death.

[Shane Simpson]

It's just, oh, this is sloppy police work, apparently.

[Emily Simpson]

So Mary Gilbert, the mother of Shannon Gilbert, who was pressing the entire time for the police to find her daughter, was murdered in 2016 by her other daughter, who stabbed her, like, 250 times.

[Shane Simpson]

Wow.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes. And they did not bring that up in the documentary. They. I think there was some little blurb that, like, Mary had died before they had found the serial killer, so she never knew. So I looked it up. I was like, how did this woman die? Because I feel like they just kind of. They made Mary in this documentary.

[Shane Simpson]

Did they make it seem like she just passed?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. So in this documentary I watched, that's significant. Yeah. And I was thinking to myself, what is the reason that they didn't bring that up in this documentary? Because Mary was heavily a part of this documentary, and there was a whole movie, like a. Like a docu series made about her and Shannon and all I could think was maybe they didn't want to highlight.

[Shane Simpson]

They didn't want to take away from the. What they investigate or what the show was originally covering, the investigation of these murdered bodies and then kind of have all these side murders going on.

[Emily Simpson]

Or they didn't want to take away like from the family because Mary presented like that. She was just like really, you know, they were all really concerned about the, the daughter and they were looking for her and they were like this unit. And then to find out that she was murdered by her other daughter, like maybe that just took away from this.

[Shane Simpson]

Where is this Sarah Gilbert now?

[Emily Simpson]

She's in prison. She got like, she got second degree murder and fourth degree something. She, her defense claims she had schizophrenia. So I think there was some lesser charge because she had mental health issues or something. But anyway, that was not in the documentary and, and I don't. So anyway, I thought that was, I thought that was a. Something that.

[Shane Simpson]

Well, it kind of paints a little bit more of a picture of the family, you know, what's going on and the troubles they're having.

[Emily Simpson]

The question is why did it take until 2022 to figure out who the Long Island Killer was?

[Shane Simpson]

So we got from basically 2010, well.

[Emily Simpson]

They were found 2010, 2011, and then it goes all the way to 2022.

[Shane Simpson]

11 years.

[Emily Simpson]

So there's 11 years where apparently maybe there's some investigation going on, but no one.

[Shane Simpson]

Well, there couldn't have been much investigation going on because 10 years, nothing really happens.

[Emily Simpson]

Right? So here's what people think. And this was in the documentary, and this makes a lot of sense that there was so much corruption within the Suffolk County Police Department. That is the reason why the, that these murders were not investigated. So the chief of police at the time was James Burke and he was actively blocking the FBI from assisting in the Gilgo beach case. So when the bodies of the Gilgo Four and other victims were discovered, there was clear potential for a multi jurisdictional serial killer investigation. And what that means is this is when you collaborate, right? You have a serial killer on Long island, so what do you do? You need to collaborate. You bring in the FBI, you bring in, in the state police, you bring in per private investigators, you, you work together. But James Burke, who was the chief of police at the time, was actively shutting everyone out, right? He's like, we don't need the FBI, we don't need the state police. We don't need.

[Shane Simpson]

Stop taking fingerprints.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes. We don't, we don't need anything else. We don't need any help. So the FBI offered assistance early on in this case, including a behavioral analysis, advanced forensics, a missing persons report, which is all standard and very complex serial killer cases. However, Burke flatly rejected any federal involvement. There was also, you know, they. They also talk about how there was just a blanket, you know, memo that went around to the entire Suffolk County Police Department that basically forbid anyone to. To speak about the case with the FBI, with other departments. That's.

[Shane Simpson]

And what. What's the basis for that? Doesn't anyone question that?

[Emily Simpson]

I think there was so much corruption, and the DA Was corrupt as well. So I think you've got these higher ups, and in the chain of command, you got the top dogs at the very top, and they're making all the calls, and no one's questioning it because.

[Shane Simpson]

They don't want to be on their radar investigating. And DA Is prosecuting.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. According to multiple law enforcement sources and later investigations, Burke personally ensured that the FBI was pushed out of the case. When he became chief in 2012, he reportedly feared that the FBI agents would uncover his own misconduct and that they would gain access to sensitive files. This is where it all starts to come out. Let's get to the good stuff. Christopher Loeb broke into Burke's car in 2012 and stole a duffel bag. That cont.

[Shane Simpson]

He stills this unrelated crime. Right. Just a guy. Opportunity sees a bag, and he wants it.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. He's a drug addict, so he's going.

[Shane Simpson]

Around, you know, is there anyone sober.

[Emily Simpson]

In this Long Island?

[Shane Simpson]

Yes.

[Emily Simpson]

So Christopher Loeb is a drug addict.

[Shane Simpson]

Gina from Long Island.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, she's from. She is from Long Island.

[Shane Simpson]

What years was she there?

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know. But anyway, back to Christopher Low. He is a drug addict, and he is looking for. He's breaking into cars because he's, you know, looking for stuff to sell to get money for drugs.

[Shane Simpson]

Whatever better place to look than cars.

[Emily Simpson]

He breaks into the Suffolk county police chief's vehicle. It's an suv.

[Shane Simpson]

He's an Avalanche.

[Emily Simpson]

He. It's not. It's a green Avalanche. No, it's not. He steals a duffel bag, he takes it home. He's, like, going through it, and it has sex toys and porn, but then it has, like, you know, does it.

[Shane Simpson]

Have ID or anything?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, it has something that identifies that, like, he's the chief app.

[Shane Simpson]

Like his badge.

[Emily Simpson]

It's not his badge, but he does have. There's like. Like. Like business cards in it that are like, chief of police, you know, so when the bag is recovered, because obviously this guy's like, my car got broken into. And, you know, the police are investigating. They find the guy, they bring him in. The bag gets recovered. Burke has him in the. You know, what is that? The witness room or whatever?

[Shane Simpson]

You know, interrogation room.

[Emily Simpson]

The interrogation room. And he beats the crap out of him. He busts him up. Bust, you know, punches him in the face. I, apparently stomps on him.

[Shane Simpson]

You know, it's funny is how he. He's like, murders. Nah, we don't have to get that. That duffel bag.

[Emily Simpson]

We're gonna find it.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah, and spare no expense. Get the FBI involved. That's right.

[Emily Simpson]

Get that back. So Burke assaulted Christopher. Christopher loeb during questioning and then orchestrated a cover up, instructing officers to lie to the FBI and alter official reports. So the FBI actually did come in and investigate this. This. And they. They said they got. It was like, called a blue wall. I guess that's when police all kind of band together and refused to speak. So that's what they were up against. They couldn't get anyone to come.

[Shane Simpson]

They called it like a blue wall.

[Emily Simpson]

Like a blue wall. Like, that was what they were up against. They're trying to, you know, they're integrating people like what happened, you know, and they just. They. A blue wall. Like no one was speaking. So basically, what happened with Burke making all these decisions? He blocked the FBI. He delayed key forensic progress, particularly in the DNA analysis, Data tracking from the cell phones. You know, they're working on putting all this stuff together and geographic profiling. But federal resources that could have identified pattern behavior, a suspect profile, or putting together evidence were not allowed. So he basically was just like, no one is allowed to have anything to do with this case. We don't want. Want. We don't want cell phone data. We don't want forensics. We don't want a profile. Like, we don't need any of this. I guess from my perspective watching it, he is involved with sex workers. There was a woman that came forward that said that he had hired her for sex, for oral sex or something in the car. And I think. I don't think that James Burke is involved in the actual serial killer part.

[Shane Simpson]

Of this story, Nobody is involved in the sex worker.

[Emily Simpson]

He's involved in the sex worker industry. So this went on from 2011 until 2022. What is sad about this corruption and how deep it goes. The d. A. Was involved in it, too. I mean, Burke ends up being prosecuted, and he goes to jail. The d. A. Ends up being prosecuted because he's involved in all of this corruption, he goes to jail. But there is a 12 year time period where they could have been investigating the serial killer and they don't. Oh yeah, because he's done everything possible to block anyone from having anything to do with this case. This guy gets police chief just because they, they have a long history of corruption. I don't want to go into it, but Burke and the D. A have a history that goes back to when burke was like 16 years old. And it has to do with another case and another murder.

[Shane Simpson]

And that's when you go in, he's got to fire everyone and start all over.

[Honey German]

Right?

[Emily Simpson]

So as we were saying, James Burke was the police chief. The D. A was Thomas Spoda. They worked closely together. Spota was a longtime political ally and mentor to Burke. They have a long history together. He supported Burke's rise to police chief. By the way, his rise to police chief was like ridiculously fast. Spoda was the d A. I think he helped him rise up to police chief. Spoda aided in Burke's 2012 cover up and worked to intimidate witnesses, suppress evidence, encourage officers to lie to federal investigators, and to also coordinate the COVID up. James Burke and Thomas spodo were later arrested. So James Burke was indicted in 2015 and pleaded guilty to civil rights violations and conspiracy to obstruct justice. On November 2, 2016, he was sentenced to 46 months in prison and three years of supervised release. Now, Thomas Spoda, who was the D A was indicted in 2017 on federal charges including obstruction of justice, conspiracy to tamper with witnesses, accessories after the fact to civil rights violations. And on August 10, 2021, Spoda was sentenced to five years in federal prison and fined a hundred thousand dollars. James Burke was arrested again in 2023 at a park in farmingville, Long island, as part of a prostitution sting conducted by Suffolk county park park rangers. I think he tried to get a park ranger to, I don't know, perform oral sex or something. And he then when the officer called police or whatever, he was like, he kept reportedly trying to use his status by saying, don't you know who I am? And he claimed that the arrest would be public humiliation for him. But they he was arrested anyway. He was charged with public lewdness, indecent exposure, and initially also criminal solicitation and offering a sex act. So basically what this comes down to is there's 11 year gap where no one's doing anything on a serial murder case in long island because all that's going on in this Suffolk County Police department is corruption. And clearly, again, I don't think James Burke has anything to do with the murders. And neither does the DA Murders these murders, and neither does the D. A. It has to do with his behavior.

[Shane Simpson]

That was a conflict of interest.

[Emily Simpson]

It was a conflict of interest.

[Shane Simpson]

Like, I don't want to destroy the sex worker.

[Emily Simpson]

Doesn't need the FBI investigating sex workers when he is involved with the sex workers. So he does everything possible for 11 years to keep the FBI and any other federal agency out of Suffolk County. He doesn't investigate it. Nothing happens for all these years. The thing that is sad is not only is he corrupt and he's just a horrible person, and so is the D. A. But. But do we know. Do you think that the serial killer during these 11 years did not have any other victims?

[Shane Simpson]

Right. And what other murders and mishaps and, you know, issues are happening in the sex work with all these sex workers?

[Emily Simpson]

Right. And you know what else?

[Shane Simpson]

Cracking down on it.

[Emily Simpson]

I thought this was really interesting. This case could have been solved sooner because they. They interview another sex worker that ended up having a dinner date with Rex Hewerman, who ends up being the alleged serial killer that we're going to talk about in a little bit how they found him. But she has dinner with him, and he's so creepy. Creeps her out so much that she texts a friend and says, meet me in the parking lot. I'm leaving this dinner date. Because he was obsessed with talking about the Gilgo murders. And she said to her friend, I think I just had dinner with the gil. Go, you know, serial killer. Now, the problem was when they asked her in the interview, if you thought that that was him and you were. Were creeped out by this guy, why did you not go to the police? And she's like, how can I go to the police? I'm a sex worker.

[Shane Simpson]

Right, right, right.

[Emily Simpson]

But here's the thing that was interesting to me when they posed the question. They said, well, if the police would have reached out to sex workers, like some type of invitation and said, we're not going to prosecute any of you. We just want to get information about this serial killer, could you come forward and there'll be no repercussions, would you have done that? And she said, absolutely. The reason I never said anything was because I'm. I'm on probation.

[Shane Simpson]

Right, right. No, I get that. I get that.

[Emily Simpson]

So to me, I was like, what a simple solution. That if the police department wasn't so corrupt and they just issued something that said, look, there is a serial killer. He is targeting sex workers. We can find him if these sex workers will come forward and tell us what they know without any repercussions of being arrested or shamed or humiliated or identified.

[Shane Simpson]

We're not going to investigate you.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. Just.

[Shane Simpson]

Right. We're gonna go for the bigger come forward.

[Emily Simpson]

This could have been solved years ago.

[Shane Simpson]

Who knows what other crimes and what other crap this police officer, you know, allowed the police department to overlook and ignore and let happen and continue. And this guy's, you know, he's getting taxpayer money and then he's using it on sex workers and. Yeah, I mean, and, you know, he's not being respectful towards them.

[Emily Simpson]

The corruption is unreal in this police department.

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[Emily Simpson]

All right, anyway, let's get to the final piece of this puzzle. How do we finally. How do they finally find Rex Heuerman who is allegedly the serial killer? How do they. How do they get to this point?

[Shane Simpson]

He found God and came forward and confessed to all his crimes.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. But that is not what happened. So Rex Heuerman is a 59 year old husband and father of two who was arrested on July 13, 2023. This is recent. Like this, this serial killer. This is what is so interesting about this case is it's. I mean, this guy's been killing since then.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah, the Coburger murders. Was. Was before he got arrested.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. And he gets arrested in 2023. So a little background on him. Heman was an architect who founded the New York City firm RH Consultants & Associates. He spent his time working in the city while living in his childhood home in New Jersey with his wife. This house that he grew up in in Long island is the house that he has now, like with his wife, Asa. She's from Iceland. And then he's got two weird kids. And this house on Long island in Massapequa park area is dilapidated. The guy is an architect, so you would think he would have some type of pride in like the abode that he lives in. But this house is completely dilapidated. It has not.

[Shane Simpson]

Been. Well, yeah, but he's also married and he's not faithful to her. I mean, you're acting like, you know, he's an upstand, like he's not.

[Emily Simpson]

Gonna. I know, but he doesn't have any morals. Yeah, but I'm saying that get rid of the ethics and the morals and the values. Like he's a psychopath. Like that's a given. I'm just saying the dude's an architect. At least have some pride in your home. I mean, his house hasn't been updated or fixed or any in 60 years. It's like the eyesore of the community. It's just this ugly, dilapidated, falling.

[Shane Simpson]

Down, dark, dirty, ugly house where the neighbors homes like.

[Emily Simpson]

Nice. Yes, all the neighbors homes are nice and their yards are nice. And then there's Just so he.

[Shane Simpson]

Looks like a serial.

[Emily Simpson]

Killer. Yes. And people even, like the neighborhoods would even, you know, thought he was creepy and weird. I mean, he lives. I mean, he takes his identity as a serial serial killer very. I mean, all the way to his house. All right, so anyway, how does Rex Hman finally get caught? What happens is a new commissioner comes in to the Suffolk county, And it's been 12 years since the Gilgo Four were found. The new commissioner's name is Rodney Harrison, and he creates a task force source to find the serial killer. First. The thing that they do, which is brilliant, no one else did this because they were too busy, you know, James Burke and the D. A are too busy being corrupt. They digitize all of the documents and evidence that has to do with this case so it can be easily searchable. And they had never done that.

[Shane Simpson]

Spread around among various investigators.

[Emily Simpson]

Right? So they have. They have a task force. They start collaborating, right, because they know in order to find the serial killer, they actually do need to work with the FBI and they do do need to work with investigators, and they do need to work with state police. So they digitize all the documents. They start searching through it because now it's easily searchable. And what do they come across as they're searching through this? They come across the interview that had to do with Amber Costello and her roommate Dave back in. What was it when she disappeared in 2010 or 11, whatever it was, where he says, the last person I saw her with, with this was this big, tall dude with beady eyes that was six foot four that had the. The, you know, serial killer glasses on that drove the avalanche, and it was dark green. So what do they do? Search for someone that fits that physical description that drives an avalanche. And where do they come up with Rex Heuerman's.

[Shane Simpson]

Name? There you.

[Emily Simpson]

Go. You know how long it took.

[Shane Simpson]

Them? Oh, a matter of.

[Emily Simpson]

Weeks. Six.

[Shane Simpson]

Weeks.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. Six weeks to come up with Rex Hewerman's name. Once they came up with Rex's name, what do they do? They start, you know, the DA Is issuing, like, subpoenas everywhere.

[Jenna Kim Jones]

Right?

[Emily Simpson]

They're. They're. But this is all secret. He doesn't know that they're investigating them, and nobody knows that they have his name. This is all secret. This is all under wraps. But they're looking at his emails, and he still, you know, has all these anonymous emails where he's reaching out to sex workers. They get. They know he has burner phones. He has like, seven different burner phones. So what they do is they're. They're creating a chart on a map where his burner phones are active the same time his regular cell phone is active. So we know he has burner phones, and we know that's how he contacts the workers, using a burner phone. Then they create, you know, what they call a box where these burner phones are only in this Massapequa area. And then the burner phones are always only in this midtown area. So now they know that it's this person, this killer, is going back and forth between Massapequa and midtown Manhattan.

[Shane Simpson]

And then they're making connections.

[Emily Simpson]

Right? And then, lo and behold, Rex Heuerman works in midtown Manhattan and also lives in Massapequa. So, like, everything's just lining up. Once they have this guy's name, it's like all the boxes are checking, right? The burner phones, his phone, you know, when the murders took place, his family was on vacation. They can do a timeline and figure out that, like, he. That his family isn't involved in any of these murders because he's murdering. When they're gone on. And they can figure all of that out. So everything's lining up anyway. Then they're like, okay, we want to. We. We got to get this guy, right? But we have to make sure we have all the evidence against him. And they want to get him quickly because they got to get this guy off the street. So they need DNA evidence. Okay, so what do they say? You can get his DNA as long as it's something that he discards. Right? Because there's no expectation of privacy. If you take a drink and you discard something, you throw it away, you're allowed to search it. That was the same thing they did with CO Burger. They followed him, tailed him until they threw the trash out. And then they took his trash, and they tested the DNA. So they tail Rex Hewerman. He's walking around. He's eating pizza. He throws away a box of pizza. They grab the pizza. They take the crust. It has DNA on it. They run the DNA, and it comes back that the DNA matches the hairs that they found on the bodies. So now they've got it.

[Shane Simpson]

All.

[Emily Simpson]

They've. And then they send a force in to arrest him, and they. That's how they find him. They found him in six weeks. I think the first meeting of that task force, that new task force in 2022, was February 1st. And by March 14th, they had had his name and. And all the, you know, evidence and DNA and everything, so. And they also found which is disturbing. But they also found that, you know, he did a lot of Google searches that had to do with very sadistic things and. And keeping track of the.

[Shane Simpson]

Case. And now he's in. He's locked.

[Emily Simpson]

Up. He is locked up. He does not have a trial date at this time. He was initially charged with the murders of three of the Gilgo four. So he was initially charged with the murder of Melissa, Megan and Amber. However, over the following year, prosecutors and expanded that indictment. And In January of 2024, he was charged also in the death of Maureen Brainard Barnes. In June of 2024, he was indicted concerning the murders of Jessica Taylor and Sandra Costillo, which was a very early murder back in the 90s. And then in December of 2024, he was charged in connection with the death of Valerie Mack. So at this point in time, I believe that he is charged with seven murders. He maintains his innocence, and he's entered a not guilty plea. So that's where we're at. We're waiting for a trial date on him. The prosecution has DNA evidence. Notably, we talked about a hair found on. The hair was found on Megan Waterman. They also searched his home, and I'm sure. And they also dug up his backyard because I'm sure they're looking for more bodies. Right. And they're searching his home, probably looking for DNA evidence of these women to see if he killed anyone inside the.

[Shane Simpson]

House. Imagine if that someone could comes knocking the door and they're like, your husband's a murder. We're here to arrest.

[Emily Simpson]

Him. No, and they. I mean. I mean, if they did, you would like, what? Yeah, and they tell me I need to leave because they have to search the house, and then they're gonna dig up the backyard because they're looking for.

[Shane Simpson]

Bodies. I mean, like, who did I. Who is this.

[Emily Simpson]

Man? Well.

[Shane Simpson]

That'S. I mean, I knew he was weird, but this is a whole different.

[Emily Simpson]

Level. I mean, as far as his wife is concerned, I think her first statement was something like, it can't be my husband. There's no way he could have done things like this. Like she.

[Shane Simpson]

Was. I know, but I'm asking.

[Emily Simpson]

You.

[Shane Simpson]

Me? What would you.

[Emily Simpson]

Do? Well, I would divorce you. I mean, there's that. Let's just go there. I would leave you if you were divorced, babe. No, I'm sorry. I feel like there's a serial killer clause that just kind of, you know, nullifies that. But. So when investigators, they took like 300 firearms from his house.

[Shane Simpson]

So.

[Emily Simpson]

Geez. Yeah. So he did not update his house at all. No new carpet, no remodeling. It's a completely dilapidated house house. But he had over 300 firearms in the basement. They dug up the backyard, but they didn't find any bodies or anything. And I'm not sure if they found any kind of DNA evidence that linked him to any of these women. I don't think. I don't think he was murdering the women in his house. When they searched his home, they also recovered a deleted Microsoft Word file from a hard drive that was seized from his home. The document was a carefully structured blueprint of serial murder planning with sections labeled Problems, Supplies and dump sites and Targets. It detailed specific steps and lessons for future offenses, including remove head and hands. Hit harder, Use heavier rope next time. You know, this is what we talked about earlier where when they. The. The older bodies that were found were different, they were killed differently and they were dismembered than the newer bodies. And then that makes sense that he was. Was actually keeping track of better ways to murder people. He was. I mean, he was making a list like his serial killer to do.

[Shane Simpson]

List.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. So the defense says that they have challenged the admissibility of his DNA evidence, arguing that the methods used are not yet widely accepted in court. I think I read that this court in New York that would be trying him, that they've never used this type of DNA sequencing before and therefore it's not reliable. Like, that's what the d. That's what the defense is going with. His legal team has also asked the court to separate the charges into multiple trials instead of combining all counts into one serial killer case. Citing concerns of jury prejudice, prosecutors are opposed to this, arguing the cases share common evidence and methodology. The judge has yet to issue final rulings and no trial date has been set, though it is tentatively expected that he will go to trial in late 2025 or early 2026. So obviously, we will continue to follow the trial. I mean, it's been. It's so interesting to. I mean, to see a trial of a serial killer. I mean, the Karen Reed trial was interesting. And then I thought Coburger was going to go on trial and that was interesting. And now we just have a psychopath that's going to go on.

[Shane Simpson]

Trial. I like the cases, the true crime cases, where it's just like one and done like one incident, like the. The one. The Karen Reed.

[Emily Simpson]

One. You mean, you like just one point of contact and then you just analyze that instead of like, so this.

[Shane Simpson]

Guy is leaving people and body parts all over the Place. And. And then it took 10 years. And this police officer is corrupt and all.

[Emily Simpson]

That. Yeah. All right, well, I. It's. But it's an interesting thing.

[Shane Simpson]

Too. It was. Well, I'll tell you what we.

[Emily Simpson]

Learned. What'd we.

[Shane Simpson]

Learn? That if you don't have a corrupt police of chief or chief of.

[Emily Simpson]

Police, that you could have solved this.

[Shane Simpson]

Murder 12 years ago crime within a matter of.

[Emily Simpson]

Months. Well, six.

[Shane Simpson]

Weeks. Well. Well, it took a while to gather all the evidence first and then six weeks to review the.

[Emily Simpson]

Evidence. That's true. That's true. But I. But what if.

[Shane Simpson]

That. What if that chief of police, like, threw away that interview? That was.

[Emily Simpson]

Key.

[Shane Simpson]

Yeah. I mean, what if he destroyed that, though? I don't want this on there and threw it.

[Emily Simpson]

Out. Out. That. That.

[Shane Simpson]

Is. That. That would have been a huge different.

[Emily Simpson]

Outcome. And I never thought of that. I mean, I guess. I guess we. The only good outcome is that he didn't destroy.

[Shane Simpson]

Evidence. Yeah. That's where he draws the.

[Emily Simpson]

Line. Yeah. He's like, I. I have morals. I'm not gonna. I'm.

[Shane Simpson]

Gonna. It's unethical to destroy.

[Emily Simpson]

Evidence. All right, well, thank you for listening to the Gilgo serial murder. You can watch. There's a lot of documentaries on it, so if you want more information, you can watch all of those. It's very convoluted, very complex, very.

[Shane Simpson]

Interesting. A lot of interviews and a lot of. A lot of info.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. A lot of interviews with family members, talking about the girls, a. A more insight into their lives and who they were and, you know, so if you have any information or you know, other things or you have questions. I love that you guys always DM about the podcast and you like to add an out, ask questions. It's great. We really, really appreciate it. And if you have any other cases that you would like us to talk about, I'm always happy to take your suggestions. So thank you guys for listening. We appreciate.

[Wilmer Valderrama]

It. Thank.

[Freddie Prinze Jr.]

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[Emily Simpson]

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[Shane Simpson]

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[Emily Simpson]

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