Legally Brunette: “The Menendez Brothers: The Prison Interview” Recap

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Legally Brunette: 'The Menendez Brothers: The Prison Interview' Recap"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Episode: Legally Brunette: “The Menendez Brothers: The Prison Interview” Recap
• Release Date: April 8, 2025

---

Introduction and Case Updates

Timestamp: [03:24]

Emily Simpson welcomes listeners to another episode of Legally Brunette, introducing her co-host Shane. The episode begins with updates on ongoing legal cases discussed in previous episodes. Emily references their last discussion on the Idaho college murders and the upcoming trial of the alleged suspect, Brian Coburger. Additionally, Emily addresses listener inquiries about a DoorDash driver linked to the case, highlighting discrepancies in the delivery timeline that raise questions about the events leading up to the murders.

Notable Quote:

"After I released some of the social media clips, I had a lot of people asking about the DoorDash driver. So I just wanted to do a quick little update on the timeline and then ask you guys a question because this whole DoorDash driver kind of has me in a, in a, in a conundrum."
— Emily Simpson [04:00]

Gene Hackman Case and Public Health Concerns

Timestamp: [08:15]

The discussion shifts to the tragic deaths caused by the hantavirus in Mammoth Lakes, California. Shane and Emily delve into the details of the outbreak, emphasizing the emotional toll on the community and the possible connections between the victims. They express concern over the implications of multiple fatalities early in the year and reflect on the lack of evidence linking the cases beyond the first individual's numerous mice infestations.

Notable Quote:

"The county's public health officer described this as tragic and alarming. Clearly, one person had numerous mice in their home, but no evidence of mice was found in the other two homes."
— Emily Simpson [09:13]

Gene Hackman and Betsy Arakawa's Estate Battle

Timestamp: [10:27]

Emily provides an update on the estate of Gene Hackman and Betsy Arakawa, highlighting the legal battles over the release of body cam footage and the subsequent removal of their names from the Office of the Medical Investigator’s unclaimed decedent list. The discussion touches on the family's reluctance to expose disturbing images and the speculated family feud over the unclaimed bodies.

Notable Quote:

"A New Mexico judge ruled that video, audio, and photos that fall under New Mexico public records law can be released in connection to the deaths of Gene and Betsy, but that their bodies cannot be shown. The bodies must be blurred or edited out."
— Emily Simpson [13:25]

Main Segment: The Menendez Brothers' Prison Interview

Timestamp: [22:42]

The core of the episode revolves around the recent TMZ special featuring the Menendez brothers, Lyle and Eric, during their prison interview. Emily recounts her experience watching the special, expressing initial frustration over its repetitive nature but later finding depth in the brothers' reflections.

Resentencing and Parole Hearings

Timestamp: [25:00]

Emily and Shane discuss the legal developments regarding the Menendez brothers, including Governor Gavin Newsom's involvement in ordering a parole board review scheduled for June 13, 2025. They explore the possibility of resentencing and the current stance of District Attorney Hawkman, who opposes their release, labeling them as "liars."

Notable Quote:

"Gene Hackman had a pretty large estate when he died. He lived on 12 acres. The house was worth around 3.8 million. According to a will, he had an estate of around 80 million."
— Emily Simpson [16:02]

Reflections on Rehabilitation and Future Aspirations

Timestamp: [29:33]

The hosts delve into the rehabilitation efforts of Lyle and Eric within the prison system. They highlight the brothers' initiatives, such as painting murals and planting greenery, underscoring their commitment to personal growth and aiding others. The conversation extends to the broader topic of prisoner rehabilitation, comparing it to physical therapy in its intent to prepare individuals for reintegration into society.

Notable Quote:

"If you want people to be rehabilitated, then rehabilitate them."
— Emily Simpson [30:06]

Impact of Media and Public Perception

Timestamp: [37:30]

Emily discusses the influence of media portrayals on public perception of the Menendez brothers. She critiques the initial negative depiction by media personalities like Harvey Levin, who once viewed them as "spoiled brats" and "monsters." However, she acknowledges a shift in perception following their prison interviews, where the brothers exhibited remorse and introspection.

Notable Quote:

"Harvey Levin is stunned by the changes in the Menendez brothers. He says, 'I covered the trials when I was a local reporter here in LA and my impressions of them were spoiled brats, monsters who deserve their sentence 35 years later. I spoke with two entirely different people. They're introspective, they're thoughtful, they are remorseful.'"
— Emily Simpson [38:14]

Public Poll and Listener Opinions

Timestamp: [34:06]

The episode covers a public poll conducted by TMZ regarding whether the Menendez brothers should be released. The results were surprisingly split, with 47% supporting their release and 53% opposing it. Emily and Shane debate the validity of the poll, questioning the informality and potential biases of such surveys.

Notable Quote:

"It's actually very close. It's 47% voted that absolutely they've served enough time. 53% voted no way they murdered their parents. They should stay in prison."
— Emily Simpson [34:22]

Personal Reflections and Final Thoughts

Timestamp: [35:01]

Shane and Emily share their personal stances on the case, weighing the brothers' rehabilitation against the severity of their crimes. Emily expresses conflicted feelings, recognizing both the brothers' personal growth and the brutal nature of their actions. They conclude by emphasizing the importance of informed opinions over sensationalist media portrayals.

Notable Quote:

"Eric admits to being a spoiled brat. He calls his younger self a spoiled brat, saying back then he, he could mask his insecurities with expensive clothes and fancy cars. He went on to say, 'Measuring success by the stuff I acquired was ridiculous. I'm so ashamed and embarrassed. But I now like myself and be proud of myself.'"
— Emily Simpson [37:18]

---

Conclusion

The episode provides a comprehensive recap of the Menendez brothers' current legal battles, their efforts towards rehabilitation, and the evolving public perception influenced by media portrayals. Emily and Shane offer thoughtful insights into the complexities of justice, rehabilitation, and media influence, encouraging listeners to form informed opinions based on the multifaceted nature of the case.

Notable Quote:

"I think if I had to pick a side, I think they've been rehabilitated. I think they should be released. They've served their time. It's been 35 years that they've spent in prison, and they've been model prisoners."
— Emily Simpson [36:08]

Final Remarks:

Emily concludes by inviting listeners to share their thoughts and information through direct messages, fostering an interactive and community-driven dialogue around the case.

---

Disclaimer: This summary is based on the provided transcript and is intended for informational purposes only. For full context and detailed discussions, listeners are encouraged to tune into the original podcast episode.

Transcript

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[Emily Simpson]

Welcome to another episode of Legally Brunette. I will be your host today, Emily Simpson with my sidekick over here, Shane. Just Shane. All right, first of all, so last night there was the TMZ presentation of like this interview from prison for the Menendez brothers. So I stayed up later than normal to watch it. But before we get into that, I wanted to do just a couple updates on some other cases that we've talked about previously. First of all, last episode, if you guys haven't listened to it yet, we went into the Idaho college murders, which is really an interesting case. Also, the alleged suspect Brian Coburger goes on trial soon. So that's why we wanted to get into this case. But after I released some of the social media clips, I had a lot of people asking about the door dash driver. So I just wanted to do a quick little update on the timeline and then ask you guys a question because this whole doordash driver kind of has me in a, in a, in a.

[Shane]

I don't know, what is the doordash driver? Okay, so I have questions about it too. What is it?

[Emily Simpson]

So on the night of the murders, Zanna Kernodle received a doordash Delivery less than 20 minutes before she was stabbed to death inside her home. This was, according to the arrest affidavit, the 20 year old's final meal, likely from Jackson Jack in the box. And we have a photo of it. It was, the photo was taken inside the house and it was dropped off by the doordash driver at the house on King Road in Moscow, Idaho at 4:00am According to the probable cause affidavit. Now the timeline is she was active on her. So the doordash delivery gets dropped off at 4am she's active on her phone at 4:12, but she had been murdered alongside her boyfriend Ethan in her bedroom by 4:25. So there is a picture of the doordash delivery, but it's in the kitchen. So here's where I'm confused by this conundrum. If the doordash driver delivers the DoorDash at 4am she's on her phone at 4:12 on social media or active on her phone and she is dead by 4:25.

[Shane]

Did she or someone was active on her phone?

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, well maybe that's another theory. But my question is the photo of the doordash delivery is in the kitchen of the house. So did the doordash driver come into the house and deliver it in the kitchen?

[Shane]

Maybe that's what I was saying earlier last week was is it like a fourplex? Is it like an apartment style building? Even if it's not officially an apartment and maybe there's a common area, like there's a hallway that they can walk in and then. You know what I mean, Like I don't know what the layout is.

[Emily Simpson]

I've seen pictures of the layout of the house and it's three. As far as I know it's three levels. So there's like a main level, then there's a second level and then there's a third level. I don't know exactly where the kitchen is. And I understand this isn't relevant to the murders because the doordash driver has been cleared. He was not a suspect. But I'm just confused when I try to imagine what happened that evening before she was murdered. She gets a DoorDash delivery at 4. Why is the food not in her room? Why did she not pick up the food from the DoorDash delivery at 4 and take it in her room with her?

[Shane]

Well, how many times you order doordash? Almost every night. And how long?

[Emily Simpson]

First of all, that is an inaccurate statement.

[Shane]

Did you order it last night for the kids?

[Emily Simpson]

Not for me.

[Shane]

Okay. Anyway, sometimes it's out there on the front door for a while.

[Emily Simpson]

I know, but this is.

[Shane]

Especially if you're dead. It's going to stay out there for quite a while.

[Emily Simpson]

I understand that, but the picture of the food is in the kitchen. So I'm just confused.

[Shane]

I don't know.

[Emily Simpson]

Did the doordash driver drop it off and bring it inside?

[Shane]

That would be a question for the doordash driver. Did they ask him?

[Emily Simpson]

I Actually Googled it. Googled it because I was trying to find more articles about it, but everything I read just broke down the timeline of probably.

[Shane]

Because it's probably nothing.

[Emily Simpson]

It's probably, but I need to know. So if anybody knows that, can you please DM Me and let me know? Also, I do believe that the door dash driver would probably testify during trial in order to establish a timeline of events.

[Shane]

Right.

[Emily Simpson]

So maybe we can figure that out once.

[Shane]

But the food was not eaten. Eaten. Eaten. It was not consumed. It was not consumed.

[Emily Simpson]

I believe it was not consumed. It's Jack in the Box. It has Zanna's name on the bag. It's sitting in the kitchen. There's a photo of it.

[Shane]

Was it meat?

[Emily Simpson]

Meat? What do you mean?

[Shane]

Because Kohlberger is a vegan, and maybe he ordered.

[Emily Simpson]

He didn't order doordash.

[Shane]

I don't know. Have you ever heard of, like, the murders? Eating, like, their. Their leftover food and stuff?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, that is true. I've seen that on Forensic. Exactly. After they commit murder, they go through the kitchen and make themselves see.

[Shane]

Cut me some slack. I might have had something.

[Emily Simpson]

All right, anyway, we're gonna move on. That was just a question I had about the doordash delivery. So if anybody has more information about that, feel free to DM me. I love to hear your guys.

[Shane]

Or if the doordash delivery guy is listening.

[Emily Simpson]

Yes, or Mr. DoorDash driver. If you listen to Legally Brunette, could you please let me know what happened that evening, even though there's a. A gag order on everyone in this case?

[Shane]

But underestimate your audience.

[Emily Simpson]

That's true. All right, let's do a little update on Gene Hackman. So the. I think it's called Han. Is it hantavirus or Hantavirus? I think someone told me I was pronouncing.

[Shane]

It's called the. The rat poo poo virus.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, the rat.

[Shane]

Street name for it.

[Emily Simpson]

All right, all right, we'll just go with rat poo poo virus kills three people in California. So the Mono County Public Health has confirmed a total of three deaths due to the rat poo poo virus in Mammoth Lakes, a town in California, Sierra Nevada mountains. All three of the recent California cases have been fatal. Oh, my gosh. Which Dr. Tom. His last name is Boo. Dr. Tom Boo.

[Shane]

What's. What's that supposed to mean?

[Emily Simpson]

Because you just said it was called the rat poo poo virus, and now.

[Shane]

Dr. Dr. Boo is a rat poo poo expert.

[Emily Simpson]

I can't with you. Dr. Tom Boo. The county's public health officer described this as tragic and alarming. Clearly one person had numerous mice in their home, but no evidence of mice was found in the other two homes. This is what the, the release stated. The occurrence of three cases in a short period has me worried, especially this early in the year. Dr. Boo said, you know, I saw.

[Shane]

A video of the groundskeeper or whomever it was that found them and then reported it and called 911 for welfare check.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane]

And they were very emotional in, in the actual reporting of it.

[Emily Simpson]

Oh yeah, I did read that.

[Shane]

And to me, I don't know if I'm right, but it just seemed like they had a connection. And probably the Hackmans were very nice and good clients and probably were kind and they always. They probably kind of like my parents have these groundskeeper that have been for. Yeah, you're 10 plus years. Yeah, 10 plus years.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

And like they kind of know them and if they found my parents unfortunately dead, they would probably too. So anyway, it just made me think that the Hackmans are probably, they were probably good to them. They probably had a connection with them. And so it just made it even more of a sad, you know, loss.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

That's all. As opposed to, you know, it was, it just didn't seem so cold. It seemed very unfortunate.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. So a little bit more with the Hackman case. Gene Hackman's mother in law, so this is his wife's mother, asked the court to block the release of footage of the actual bodies. This was a People article. So Betsy Arakawa, which was the, the wife, her mother is opposing the release of police body cam footage that would show her daughter and Gene Hackman's dead bodies. In court documents which were attained by people on Monday, March 31, the mother in law's name is Yoshi Feaster. She shared in a statement that since the death of her daughter and son in law, the significant media coverage surrounding the circumstances of her passing have forced me to relive the experience of her untimely death repeatedly. The mother in law or the mother. The mother of. Anyway, Gene Hackman's mother in law continued that media outlets have been seeking to access photographs and videos of her daughter's body from the New Mexico's Office of the Medical Investigator. What do you think about that? I mean, what do you think about the public right to information as opposed to someone's.

[Shane]

Like the videos. Like the videos. Yeah, I don't think it should be. Am I curious? Would I watch it? Would I click on it if it was made Available to me.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah.

[Shane]

Yes.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

Do I think it should be released as a matter of rights? No, I don't think so.

[Emily Simpson]

So you think a person, a family's privacy as to their. Their dead relatives is a higher standard or regard as opposed to the public's need to consume salacious material on a daily basis.

[Shane]

Right. Other than these dumb podcasts trying to, like, get all that they can. I know, but also, I mean, I. That's not. That's a. That's a general answer. I mean, but there might be specifics. Sometimes if there's criminality involved and they want to release it to maybe get inside information or people to give tips. There are reasons, but generally speaking, if there's no foul play and someone's just. Just because they're a celebrity, everyone wants to see Gene Hackman on the floor. I mean, that's kind of sad. Especially after Gene Hackman go watch Crimson Tide.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. I. Especially after he had apparently been laying there for a week.

[Shane]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

So we can imagine what the body looks like at that point. So Betsy's mother expressed concerns over how releasing the images of her late daughter could end up online on television and be discussed on the radio and on these annoying podcasts. So on March 31, a New Mexico judge ruled that video, audio, and photos that fall under New Mexico public records law can be released in connection to the deaths of Gene and Betsy, but that their bodies cannot be shown. The bodies must be blurred or edited out. This is what the judge ruled. So basically, you can look up probably the crime scene, you can look up the house, you can look up everything. You just can't see the images of.

[Shane]

Yeah, the bodies. Yeah. I mean, don't they always blur out, like, faces and bodies when they're dead anyway, when they. Re, like, if there's a news reporting or, you know, you watch those video, like, well, maybe body cam videos. And when there's a dead body, they always blur it out.

[Emily Simpson]

I think maybe with reputable news sources. Sources, because they try to have some integrity. But if you Google something online, I mean, you can usually find the crime scene photo. Yeah, I mean, I've seen the Menendez crime scene photos. Like, those are pretty brutal. All right, Gene Hackman and Betsy Arakawa. Bodies are left unclaimed for over a month. This was in the mirror. This was an article. So the names of Gene Hackman and a spouse, Betsy, have been quietly scrubbed from New Mexico's Office of the Medical Investigator list of unclaimed descendants amidst rumors suggesting a bitter family division at play over the Bodies left unattended. According to the current protocol, an unclaimed decedent implies individuals have been id'd, but the next of kin haven't been tracked down. This comes after mounting speculation that their loved ones had yet to lay claim to the bodies, igniting talks of a family feud. Up until March 27, the Hackmans were still marked on the Office of Medical Investigators website. But by Friday morning, people observed that they'd vanished from the record. So I think there was some reporting that they were listed as unclaimed. And then I think once it was reported in the media, it looks like it was scrubbed from the website. So I don't know if someone claimed the bodies or if. Or if they just didn't want the attention on that website and maybe they just took them off. So I don't really know what happened with that.

[Shane]

I don't know. But it's. I mean, it's not really a public value.

[Emily Simpson]

No. But I think it goes to the heart of. There were the two daughters, and remember, they hadn't checked on them for months or had any contact with them. And then apparently the bodies were left and not claimed by next of kin for a while. So speculating that, you know, there's this type of family feud. And where is this? I mean, he had a pretty large estate. I think that was maybe surprising to people because it seemed like he lived a very simple life. But just because someone lives a simple life doesn't mean that they don't have a lot.

[Shane]

And just because someone lives a flashy life doesn't mean they have a lot of money either.

[Emily Simpson]

Exactly. So where do you fall?

[Shane]

I'm a simple man.

[Emily Simpson]

You're a simple man?

[Shane]

I am.

[Emily Simpson]

Shane is a simple man. I will tell you, when Shane and I were first married, this was like 16 years ago. He lived in Utah. And this man, he would never have bought furniture or anything if it wasn't for me. This is.

[Shane]

My kids have furniture.

[Emily Simpson]

The kids have furniture.

[Shane]

And I had a couch and a tv.

[Emily Simpson]

A couch and a tv. You are.

[Shane]

And there was a lot of toys in the house.

[Emily Simpson]

A lot of toys, no furniture. And, you know, I remember when my.

[Shane]

Dad and I had no debt.

[Emily Simpson]

I know. I just. I remember when my dad got divorced when I was, like, 18. Well, he wasn't divorced, but he had a girlfriend for a long time. She moved out. My dad had outdoor lawn furniture as his furniture inside his home? Yeah, for like a year.

[Shane]

Was he an unhappy man?

[Emily Simpson]

No. He had a big TV and cable, and then he had outdoor furniture as his living room furniture. And I was like, men are so simple. If Shane was not married to me, this house would never be remodeled. It would not have furniture. He would have it. The biggest TV you could buy, and a couch, and it would still look like 1993 in this house. Yeah, Right. I'm right. Yeah. Okay, so apparently Gene Hackman had a pretty large estate when he died. He lived on 12 acres. The house was worth around 3.8 million. This is in New Mexico. And according to a will, he had an estate of around 80 million.

[Shane]

Okay. And we don't know who's. Who's gonna be the beneficiary.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, no, I don't think that's been made public yet.

[Shane]

It'll likely be whoever she chose.

[Emily Simpson]

Whoever the wife chose.

[Shane]

Yes. Yeah, because wasn't she the gatekeeper?

[Emily Simpson]

She was the gatekeeper. But, I mean, that was just my speculation because it said. I believe earlier when we talked about this case, it was that he didn't have a cell phone. Like, everyone had to go through her. He was estranged, I think, from the daughters. And so I called her the gatekeeper. So I, I. If she would not have died at the same time as him, she would have inherited.

[Shane]

Well, yeah. Well, no, not necessarily. Unless he had a will that excluded her.

[Emily Simpson]

Well, I can't imagine, but, like, the.

[Shane]

Likelihood was they just had joint accounts or whatnot, and he might have had some prenup for his kids or something. We'll find out.

[Emily Simpson]

We'll find out when the. When the will.

[Shane]

I'd rather. I'd rather see the will than the. The crime scene.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. Shane wants the finances. He does not want to gets what?

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[Emily Simpson]

So last night there was a special on the Menendez brothers, and I feel slightly bamboozled because it was like TMZ presents, you know, prison interviews of Lyle and Eric Menendez. So I stayed up past my bedtime to watch this, and when I was watching it, I was like, this sounds so familiar to me. So basically what it was Harvey Levin, who is tmz, and Mark Garagos, who represents the Menendez brothers post conviction. They together, the two of them have a podcast called Two Angry Men. And weeks ago, I think it was weeks ago, maybe a month or so ago, they had an episode on.

[Shane]

Is it spelled T W O or T O O?

[Emily Simpson]

It's T W. Okay. Yeah, that's. You're the T O O. Angry Man.

[Shane]

I was just wondering how they spelled it.

[Emily Simpson]

So two.

[Shane]

Two teas in a pod. But it's Two Angry Men.

[Emily Simpson]

It's Two Angry.

[Shane]

Should have been Two Angry Men in a pod.

[Emily Simpson]

Two Angry Men in a pod.

[Shane]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, but it's tw. Okay, not to. Anyway, they had an episode that I listened to and it was Lyall and Eric calling in from prison and Harvey was asking them questions and they did an interview. I listened to the whole podcast. They talked about what they want to do if they get released. And anyway, what they did for the special that was on last night, this whole TMZ presents, was that they took the audio from this podcast and they used that same audio as the interview, and then they added some clips and some photos. And so basically it was just taking what they'd already recorded on a podcast and trying to make it into a special.

[Shane]

So is that why you were angry watching It.

[Emily Simpson]

I was angry. I was.

[Shane]

I couldn't ask any questions or say anything without Emily snapping.

[Emily Simpson]

I was like, stop talking to me.

[Shane]

And I asked a couple weeks ago, I said, well, what's different? I already did an interview. He said, no, this is the first interview. I'm like, no, they already did the first interview. So what's different? You said and you got all angry.

[Emily Simpson]

I did not get.

[Shane]

And then last night you watched it and then you feel now bamboozled like.

[Emily Simpson]

That'S what I said.

[Shane]

I said, it's the same thing.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. So TMZ special was called the Menendez Brothers the prison Interview. It aired last night on Fox and it will air today on Hulu.

[Shane]

But they did add like video and visuals and. And some narration. It wasn't just an audio player.

[Emily Simpson]

No, that's what I said.

[Shane]

So for those that want to watch it, there was some more value to it.

[Emily Simpson]

So in the exclusive interview, Lyle and Eric Menendez spoke with Harvey Levin over the phone from their correctional facility and discussed their experiences in prison and their hopes for the future. They expressed optimism about their upcoming parole hearing scheduled for June 13, 2025 and their aspirations to continue advocacy work for abuse victims if they are released. So let's just go back and just do a little summary of where they're at in the legal system. They're really on a two track way right now. There is the June 13th. They have a parole hearing which that came down from what's his name? Gavin Newsom himself. When he said when he did, I think it was his first podcast.

[Shane]

He of his revamped podcast.

[Emily Simpson]

His first podcast of his revamped podcast. He talked about how he was now getting involved into the case.

[Shane]

He doesn't need to get involved. He wants to get involved is commune their sentence. Instead. He's like, oh, this is popular. I let me get involved, let me.

[Emily Simpson]

Get involved because I don't after the fire situation. So let me hop on the Menendez train. So anyway, he now has ordered that the parole board do this risk assessment type of research to put together what some type of opinion as to whether they should be paroled or not. And that is scheduled for June 13th. Also they still have the resentencing hearing possibility even though the D.A. hockman is not. He's not behind the resentencing. He came out and said that they shouldn't be released, they shouldn't be re sentenced. There is a hearing this Friday in front of Judge Jessic and it's basically the D A trying to withdraw their Invite to be re sentenced. So the judge has to decide whether he's going to continue with the hearing going forward or whether the D A gets to withdraw.

[Shane]

So they filed like a motion to withdraw or whatever?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

[Shane]

And now it's up to the judge to review everything and decide if he's going to agree, grant it.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

Or continue.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. Because if you do, remember that the whole resentencing started with the prior D A who was a much more progressive D A. Now we have Hawkman and he's like, no, they should stay in prison forever. And he called him liars and said they needed to admit to all these lies and things like that.

[Shane]

Was that the guy that said they're the greatest liars of all time or something like that?

[Emily Simpson]

That wasn't Hawk, or is that just some commentator that was a reporter that had been during. That had been present during the trials. And so if you watch the special, the TMZ special, there is a reporter that called them the greatest liars that he'd ever witnessed. So. So there's that. All right, so let's talk about what Eric and Lyle will do if they are released again. They have a two track system. It could either be their sentence can be commuted by Gavin Newsom, or there's still the possibility of a resentencing. It's not dead yet, they said. We have pretty much a shared purpose. This is what Lyle told TMZ in terms of the victims community we have for decades been involved with and a lot our joy and a lot of our grief has come from that community. Lyle spoke about the work he and his brother have done in prison, including speaking about trauma in order to help healing. He hopes to do more of that if released. Lyall told tmz, which is actually Harvey, that after testifying about the abuse he and his brothers said they suffered at the hands of their father, he received a lot of support and also hopes to keep up his work with helping survivors of trauma. Eric also expressed similar sentiments to tmz, saying that if he's released, he wants to be an advocate for people who have survived childhood trauma. There are people that the system is failing and I want to help the people that the system is failing. Eric said, Lyle and I aren't talking about leaving prison. Should we be able to get out and not looking back. Our lives will be spent working with the prison and doing the work we're we're doing in here, but doing it out there. Basically they're saying we've spent the last, you know, 35 years in prison helping other survivors of trauma. I know they do. I know they have groups that they. They speak in. I know Eric paints and Lyle does these groups. I know Lyle has painted. Like, he was. He started some initiative that was called, like, a green space initiative, where they painted murals and they planted some trees and greenery. I actually thought that was interesting because I remember in the original. If you listen to the original podcast, which had more interview than this actual special did, Lyle talks about how in prison, it's not really rehabilitating.

[Shane]

No.

[Emily Simpson]

If you're just within these walls that are white, you know, and you're stuck in these rooms. Like, how are you supposed to rehabilitate someone if they don't see trees or animals or grass or anything that keeps people happy and grounded? And so I believe he started, like, this green space initiative where they planted some trees, they brought in some. There's some grass and flowers planted. I think they painted this huge mural on the wall in order to have more color and life in the prison system. And I. I actually agree with that. Like, if we want people to be rehabilitated, then rehabilitate. Then rehabilitate them.

[Shane]

It's like going to physical therapy. And they go, just sit here and I'll be back in an hour. They come like, okay, you're done. Go back out there.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. So, you know, maybe that's something that will catch on in other prisons as far as rehabilitating prisoners. I do. Like, a lot of times, when you see the therapy dogs that come in and the prisoners train them to be. They get them as puppies, they train them to be therapy dogs. Things like that are just such cool. And the firefighters, that's another one. We were going to do a podcast about that. Do you remember during the LA fires, a lot of the fire teams that were brought in were the prisoners?

[Shane]

Yeah. I was very curious how that's organized. That's very interesting.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. So someone actually reached out to me. It was an attorney, she was a defense attorney. And she said a lot of times with these young guys, when they go into prison, you can request from the judge that they be put into the fire program. And I don't remember exactly what all the requirements were, but it was like, you know, good health and young and not violent.

[Shane]

Not convicted of arson.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. Not convicted of arson. Probably not convicted of murder, but maybe some of the lesser sentences that they could go into the. Into the fire program within the prison and learn this. These skills. Anyway, the brothers are Hopeful at this point. In the interview, Lyle shared. Our hope for the future is really kind of a new thing for us. I think Eric would probably agree with that. It's not something we've spent a lot of time on. And, you know, if you think about it, they were convicted 35 years ago, life without parole. So all these good things that they've done in prison. Right.

[Shane]

Are not in the hopes of getting.

[Emily Simpson]

Out, are not because they're trying to.

[Shane]

For show.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. It's not for show. It's not because. Because they're trying to create, you know, a legacy so that when they are up for parole, they can talk, they can list all these great things that they've done. They're actually doing it because they were in.

[Shane]

Well, that was the one thing I got out of the this quote, unquote special last night. Was the. The rapper named X rated?

[Emily Simpson]

Yes. X rated was on there with a.

[Shane]

D. He X rated. Yeah. He said he was with them for 18 years. And he said, and I'm paraphrasing, he said that those guys helped him to kind of be motivated to get himself together for when he got out. Yeah, like, they educated him, they worked with him, they supported him. And he said those guys were never getting out, but they were focused on me and becoming a better person for when I got out.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, I thought that was interesting. That did say a lot. And I thought that was really interesting. And I'm glad they did include that in the special. I mean, I guess I was slightly bamboozled. But they did add in some other people into the special that spoke on their behalf. I mean, they also had the detective. You know, you have to keep it balanced. Right. So they had the detective that said they should never get out of. I mean, he was the detective that.

[Shane]

The detective didn't live with him in jail this whole time.

[Emily Simpson]

No, he still, as far as. I mean, they interviewed the detective.

[Shane]

It's not a matter of, oh, they're not guilty. Let them out. It's a matter of given the circumstances, given the trauma that they supposedly went through and all these things coupled with them for 35 years having already served prison time and all the good that they're doing, that they might actually be contributing citizens when they come out.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

It's all those things put together.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

And probably more.

[Emily Simpson]

But here's a quote from Eric that was in the special. I'm striving to be a better person every day, and I want to be a person that my family can be proud of, who I've Evolved into who I've seen Lyle evolve into. I'm finally beginning to like myself and be proud of myself, and I find it's okay to like myself. Yourself also. I thought it was interesting that TMZ included a poll in this special. They asked. I don't remember what their. How many people. Look, I can't remember the exact number of people they pulled. I think it was like 68, 000 or something that voted.

[Shane]

This is an online poll, though.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. They asked the public if the Menendez brothers should go free. What do you. What are your guess. What do you guess? What do you think it was?

[Shane]

I don't know. I don't know who the 68, 000 people are.

[Emily Simpson]

That doesn't matter.

[Shane]

Are they people in the prisons voted? I don't know.

[Emily Simpson]

No, it's just tmz, like you. You follow tmz?

[Shane]

Oh, you mean like, maybe they did it on X, they just put it?

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah, probably. So what do you think? I don't know.

[Shane]

I bet you it's a toss up. I bet you it's like any. It's like 50, 50.

[Emily Simpson]

It's actually very close. It's 47% voted that absolutely they've served enough time. 53% voted no way they murdered their parents. They should stay in prison. I actually was surprised by that because I thought it would be flipped. I thought it would be higher that people think that they should be released.

[Shane]

Yeah. But I think I. I just guess it's a toss up. 50, 50, which it pretty much is because no one. You have facts to really know. I mean, how many people just vote just because it's in front of them and they don't really know, so they think, oh, murder their parents, stay in prison like no one's.

[Emily Simpson]

You mean.

[Shane]

That's why that. That poll isn't really.

[Emily Simpson]

So you're saying. Yeah. Well, okay, well, let me ask you.

[Shane]

Were they informed votes? Probably not.

[Emily Simpson]

Probably not. I don't think anyone's informed when they vote.

[Shane]

No.

[Emily Simpson]

Okay, let me ask you, because you're an informed voter, how would you vote?

[Shane]

I didn't vote.

[Emily Simpson]

I'm talking about the poll. I'm saying you're an informed voter because you know about.

[Shane]

If it's just a thought, I would say they should be released.

[Emily Simpson]

You think so? Okay.

[Shane]

I mean, based on all the things you've talked to me, and if I voted no, they should stay in prison, you'd probably be very mad with me.

[Emily Simpson]

No, that's not even true. I go back and forth. Honestly, people have Asked me do I think they should be released or do I think they should stay in prison? And I go back and forth. I tell you, when I listen to them speak now as adults, and they sound so poignant and poised and like they've been rehabilitated. I don't think that they're a risk to society, which is a factor. Right. At all. Rehabilitation and whether they should be released all comes down to are they a risk to society? Do I think they're a risk? Absolutely not. Would I want them as neighbors? I wouldn't be worried if they were my neighbors. I think the brutality of what they did was a specific isolated event to that family and the trauma that was going on in that family. And I think that's what that was about. I don't think they're the kind of people that would be released.

[Shane]

It doesn't sound like you go back and forth.

[Emily Simpson]

No, I do, though. I do. But then when I see crime scene photos and you go back to that night and the brutality of it, I'm like, wow, that was, I mean, they were 18 and 21, and that was a pretty brutal evening. And Lyle Reloaded.

[Shane]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

I mean, then I, then I kind of think about that, But I guess if I had to, if I had to, if I had to pick a side, I think they've been rehabilitated. I think they should be released. I think they've served their time. It's been 35 years that they've spent in prison, and they've been model prisoners. So I, I, I think they should.

[Shane]

You know, and they might very well continue work outside. They might, I imagine, I don't imagine that they would just leave the prison and never return. They probably would come back to help with programs. Well, that's what follow up on the. Oh, okay, so I was right.

[Emily Simpson]

Did you not watch this special?

[Shane]

Well, I wasn't allowed to ask questions.

[Emily Simpson]

That's right.

[Shane]

You were getting mad.

[Emily Simpson]

So they do talk about how they still want to continue with the work that they've done inside the prison, but outside. So I think they would still be involved with victims and, and, and children and inmates and whatever. So that's what they say. Eric admits to being a spoiled brat. He calls his younger self a spoiled brat, saying back then he, he could mask his insecurities with expensive clothes and fancy cars. He went on to say, measuring success by the stuff he acquired was ridiculous. He goes on to admit, I'm so ashamed and embarrassed. But he admits he now likes himself and his goal is to be he.

[Shane]

Was admitting why he did that. He looked back and reflected on his life and realized he wanted all those things because he was missing his, his self identity or whatever you want to call his independence.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

You know, real happiness. So he was masking it or trying to get all these things to fill that void.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

I mean, that's quite a bit of growth. That's more growth than most people get.

[Emily Simpson]

You know, I also thought it was interesting that Harvey, when he did the interview, he said that he was at the trial 35 years ago and that he thought that they were just horrible, you know, cold blooded killer, spoiled rotten brats.

[Shane]

I'm sorry, who said this?

[Emily Simpson]

Harvey, the TMC guy. He did the interview at the time, he said 30.

[Shane]

At the time he was with the.

[Emily Simpson]

Public at the time. He was there during the trials. Right.

[Shane]

But I mean he was like the public where everyone thinks, oh my gosh, these brats that wanted money and killed their parents.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. But my question is how much of that was just perpetuated by the media? Because we talked about before the way that they were just made fun of relentlessly. They were called spoiled brats.

[Shane]

They were on daily, like it was referenced on David Letterman all the time. And I watched Letterman, it was all the time. And as a kid, I'm watching high school and you just know like, oh, these two guys killed their parents for money and they got caught. That's all, that's all I knew. Of course, I was only a high schooler, but that's all. That's the impression I got. And I. That was all the comedians and that was all the news references, right? And so publicly, yeah, they were screwed.

[Emily Simpson]

Right? Here's his actual quote. So Harvey Levin is stunned. He says he's stunned by the changes in the Menendez brothers. He says, I covered the trials when I was a local reporter here in la and my impressions of them were spoiled brats, monsters who deserve their sentence 35 years later. I spoke with two entirely different people. They're introspective, they're thoughtful, they are remorseful.

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[Emily Simpson]

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[Emily Simpson]

You had mentioned X Rated before, but let's talk a little bit more about that. So an array. His stage name is X Rated Brown, a rapper who spent 26 years in prison for murder, found unexpected allies in Ly and Eric Menendez, who helped him rise above his past and discover his own worth. X Rated met Lyle Menendez first in 2001 at Mule Creek State Prison in Ione. Is it Ione, California? Is that how you say it?

[Shane]

I don't know, but he's. He was only in prison for 26 years.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. And he got out. Right.

[Shane]

And what's his murder like?

[Emily Simpson]

I don't know the details of what happened, but he spent 26 years in prison for murder and he was released.

[Shane]

Right.

[Emily Simpson]

So I don't know the circumstances of that. I mean, maybe that's something interesting to look up.

[Shane]

You bet it is. I'm gonna look it up right now.

[Emily Simpson]

So he says, meeting Lyle, he struck me as sturdy. He was a strong man. He wasn't a weakling or someone who couldn't hold his own. He said Lyle taught him to see himself in a new light and recognize his own worth, despite his challenging upbringing. In 2008, the rapper then met Eric. When I got there, he came looking for me and brought a letter that Lyle had written to him, essentially telling him, hey, this is X Rated. He's our little brother. I love him. So you love him too. He took me under his wing from there. X Rated continued. Eric could stand on his own. He wasn't a coward. He was very intelligent. And his emotional intelligence was probably higher than anyone I had ever met before. He helped me a lot with that. So after spending 26 years in prison, X Rated was released on parole in 2018 with the help of Lyle and Eric. So, I don't know. I thought that was interesting. I mean, I guess I wasn't completely bamboozled because they did leave. They did have the interview with X Rated, which added another element to their. Their prison life. One last thing. I thought it was interesting that Harvey asked Lyle what his thoughts were on the monsters drama series.

[Shane]

Did they watch it?

[Emily Simpson]

He. He said that they did. He said. He said he saw bits and pieces.

[Shane]

Oh, yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

That's what he wasn't able to sit and watch the whole thing, but he.

[Shane]

Saw enough of it.

[Emily Simpson]

He saw enough of it to piece it together. He said he saw parts of it.

[Shane]

Online and that he kind of basically felt he saw the movie.

[Emily Simpson]

Right. Lyle Menendez revealed on the podcast that he felt grateful for the Netflix series, expressing how he thinks it helped people understand the childhood trauma he and his brother experienced. I feel a lot of people were educated about what can happen in rich and affluent homes behind walls. I think it opened a lot of people's eyes, and that's always a good thing. The brothers initially criticized the show's portrayal of their lives, crime and trial, calling it a disheartening slander. I do know initially that they were upset by it. There's also the. They allude to an incestuous relationship between the two brothers, which I'm sure that wasn't something that they were happy about. I also know the family spoke against it, saying that it wasn't factually correct and they weren't happy with it. No one asked them their thoughts or anything like that. However, I think, Lyle, now, when you step back from it and you look at it, you recognize the fact that so many people watched it and were invested in it, and then probably, like me, went back and did more research and watched their original trials. These are the people that are rallying around them and are saying that they should be released and their. Their time has been served. And let's be honest for a moment, these two men are getting privileges that other men in prison aren't getting because of their notoriety. Like, you can't deny that. No one else. I. I'm saying they're famous.

[Shane]

Yeah, but what privileges?

[Emily Simpson]

They're. They have a resentencing hearing, and. And Governor Gavin Newsome has personally said that. That he's ordering a parole board to review their case and possibly commute their sentence.

[Shane]

Right.

[Emily Simpson]

I'm saying those are privileges that those two are getting because of who they are and the notoriety surrounding their.

[Shane]

Yeah, we talk. We mentioned that before. Right. But for their popularity.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

I mean, no one would be. You know, TMZ wouldn't have a vote out there with 68, 000 people. I wouldn't do any polls or anything.

[Emily Simpson]

Right.

[Shane]

We wouldn't be talking about it right now. And you wouldn't have driven by their house to look at it.

[Emily Simpson]

I did drive. I. Yeah, I didn't just drive by. I actually parked.

[Shane]

I took selfies.

[Emily Simpson]

I got out.

[Shane]

Yeah.

[Emily Simpson]

I made a video of it. I don't know. It's just it's.

[Shane]

I mean, even Millie Vanilli is getting some comeback opportunities here because you're listening to it every day. Everyone's listening to it.

[Emily Simpson]

Yeah. I would say that the Monsters series did more good than harm for the brothers. And I think now looking back on it, they recognize that. So, yeah. All right. Anyway, we are finished with this episode. Thank you again so much for listening to Legally Brunette. We truly appreciate it. And if you have any other information or you have thoughts, please DM me. I read them and I and I like to respond if I can. So any thoughts you have or if you know any more information that we didn't cover, please feel free to let me know. So thanks guys. We appreciate it.

[Shane]

Bye.

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