Seasonal Liars (RHOC Recap)

Summary

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Two Ts In A Pod: “Seasonal Liars” (RHOC Recap)

Hosts: Teddi Mellencamp & Tamra Judge
Date: August 25, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge—two Real Housewives alums themselves—dive deep into Season 19, Episode 7 of The Real Housewives of Orange County (RHOC). With producer Matt Meegan joining the conversation, the team unpacks the episode’s mounting conflicts, shifting alliances, and the season’s central scandal: accusations and denials swirling around cast members’ honesty. The theme of “Who’s lying?” drives a layered and often chaotic breakdown of RHOC’s latest drama, especially focusing on the tangled web between Katie, Gretchen, and Tamra.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Blogger vs. Journalist” Confusion

[04:49 - 05:55]

• Matt and Sophie clarify the show's misuse of the word "blogger." On-screen, RHOC cast members refer to bloggers and journalists interchangeably, blurring the line between professional journalism and Bravo content creators.
• Quote:
  • Matt: “A journalist, a podcaster, a blogger, a Bravo content creator. There’s a vast difference between all of these people. So Gina calling a journalist is not the same thing as talking to a ‘blogger.’” (05:02)
• Rebuke of calling Tamra a “blogger” as she’s a podcaster and housewife, not a gossip blogger.

2. Katie & Gretchen’s Truthfulness Under Fire

[05:53 - 06:35]

• Sophie and Matt both cast heavy suspicion on Katie and Gretchen, arguing that both are “so obviously” lying about the “who said what” drama.
• Matt points out a classic “tell”—when Jen says, “even if she did say it,” it basically confirms Katie did.
  • Quote:
    • Matt: “If you’re saying even if she did say it, she said it.” (06:31)

3. Recapping RHOC: Airboat Adventure, Anxiety, and Lateness

[06:35 - 08:13]

• Shannon arrives late to the airboat outing, visibly anxious and demanding her coat, which prompts playful banter about whether she keeps Xanax in her pockets.
  • Quote:
    • Matt: “Are there Xanax in the coat? Because then maybe they should get the coat.” (06:57)
• Gina calls Shannon out on her chronic lateness—a recurring theme in Housewives this week.
• The conversation shifts to headbands and questionable confessional looks, leading to a memorable insult:
  • Quote:
    • Matt: “That look was like Jackie Kennedy Onassis but, like, bought it on Teemu.” (08:59)

4. The “Naked Wasted” Accusations—Origins and Motives

[14:10 - 16:49]

• Gina confronts Katie about conversations with a journalist, confirming Katie retold a story about Gretchen and Slade's hospital visit and the toxicology drama after “Naked Wasted.” The hosts dissect whether Gretchen and Slade weaponized Katie to get back onto the show or to target Tamra.
• Sophie expresses that the story’s more about Gretchen & Slade’s motives than Katie’s delivery.
  • Quote:
    • Sophie: “I don’t care about Katie. I care about Gretchen and Slade telling this to Katie.” (16:15)

5. Jen’s Consistency (Or Lack Thereof)

[16:49 - 18:03]

• Matt vents about Jen chronically dodging accountability: “She’s been lying since the beginning of the season and… no one calls her out.”
  • Quote:
    • Matt: “No one presses her on anything… People are saying all these things and you’re always—I would never do that.” (17:29)

6. Tamra’s Loneliness & Therapy Scene

[18:03 - 21:32]

• Tamra’s therapy session is highlighted—for both emotional vulnerability and comic callback to Teddi’s infamous voicemail:
  • Quote:
    • Matt: “Can we just please talk about the fact that your voicemail we hear is, ‘I forgot, don’t leave me a voicemail’?” (18:21)
• Tamra confesses to taking half a Xanax and feeling isolated, lamenting that none of her friends called her afterward. Lunch with Heather reveals further fractures—Heather claims she did call, and Tamra hung up.
  • Quote:
    • Matt: “I know Tamra just wanted somebody to say, like, hey, are you okay? And she’s not getting that.” (21:32)

7. Emily & Shane’s Parenting Struggles

[19:04 - 21:00]

• The hosts empathize with Emily’s emotional candor about parenting challenges, noting Shane’s discomfort talking about issues publicly.
• Matt: “It’s probably really affecting their marriage because she’s taking what’s happening with the son and kind of putting it on her.” (20:41)

8. “The Gretchen Lie” Grows

[23:01 - 26:45]

• The group reviews Gretchen’s version of events about the hospital story, catching her in contradictions between what she tells Tamra in the car and what she says in her confessional.
  • Quote:
    • Matt: “She says to Tamra in the car, she did go the hospital. And then, cut to, right, her confessional: ‘I did not go to the hospital but I should have.’ That immediately should tell you Gretchen said it to some effect.” (23:40)
• The possibility of a “Phaedra situation” (referencing RHONY Season 9’s infamous false accusations) is floated.

9. Katie’s Loyalty & Producer Pressure

[27:05 - 28:09]

• Katie, in her confessional, debates whether to expose Gretchen or protect her. The hosts note the telltale sign that even the producers know Gretchen is lying.
  • Quote:
    • Sophie: “Katie, in her confessional, asks the producer if she should tell the real story or if she should be protecting Gretchen. To me, that’s it.” (27:54)

10. Final Takeaway: “Blow It Up, Katie!”

[29:26 - 29:42]

• Sophie and Matt end with a direct plea for Katie to stop protecting the liars and “blow it up” at the reunion.
  • Quote:
    • Sophie: “We’re going to end this episode with one piece of advice: Blow it up.” (29:35)

---

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Housewife Anxiety:
  • Matt: “That’s Shannon’s perpetual state, is an anxiety attack.” (07:23)
• On Gina’s Role:
  • Matt: “Gina’s doing her job, this season. I feel like she’s playing the middle. The middle person. The middle orange.” (08:11)
• On Drama Loyalty & Housewife Tactics:
  • Matt: “I wish Katie would actually play up the campiness of, like, yeah, I lie about it… I wish she would have just threw Gretchen under the bus at that Tamra Xanax table.” (29:01)

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Noteworthy Timestamps

• 04:49-05:55 – Blogger vs. journalist debate
• 06:15-06:35 – Katie and Gretchen called out for lying
• 07:23 – Shannon's anxiety is a recurring gag
• 14:10-16:49 – Breakdown of Gretchen and Slade's motives
• 18:03-21:32 – Tamra’s therapy and the loneliness narrative
• 23:01-24:03 – Gretchen caught contradicting herself
• 27:54-28:09 – Katie agonizes over outing Gretchen
• 29:26-29:42 – Sophie and Matt’s advice: “Blow it up, Katie!”

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Overall Summary

This episode is a spirited, unfiltered recap where Teddi, Tamra, and Matt scrutinize RHOC’s web of lies, shifting friendships, and tactical truth-bending. The hosts blend sarcasm, keen insight, and plenty of Bravo inside baseball—never shying away from calling out cast members (or each other) for avoidance, duplicity, or just terrible headbands.

If you want a play-by-play of “who said what and why,” theories on cast motivations, and encouragement to just “blow it up” when the truth needs to come out, this episode delivers. The analysis is sharp, the banter fun, and the opinions refreshingly unvarnished—the perfect companion for anyone following RHOC’s latest drama.

Transcript

[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Sophie Cunningham]

Make their holiday unforgettable with a gift that says it all from Pandora Jewelry, a gift that tells a story and shows you know theirs, that doesn't just sparkle but speaks from New festive charms to forever rings and personal engravings. This season, give a gift that's perfectly theirs. Whether you're shopping for a shiny surprise for your significant other, matching bracelets to celebrate your friendship, or a heartfelt gift for a family member. Say more this holiday season with Pandora. Shop [e-mail] or visit your closest Pandora store. Hi, guys. Welcome to another episode of Diamonds in the Rough. We are recapping Real Housewives of Orange County, Season 19, Episode 7. Right now, I am here with one of my besties and producer, hey, Matt Meegan. It's who you normally hear laughing in the back going, stupid.

[Matt Meegan]

Well, I got to do this with Erica once, and now I get to do it with you.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Yeah. So Erica was out of town, and we didn't want to be too backed up on episodes, so here we go. We are gonna be recapping this episode. It should be titled. You can't do the show without Tamra. No, you can't. I mean, they're even on the freaking trip, and they're having to pan to Tamra in therapy.

[Matt Meegan]

They couldn't get through a full day of New Orleans without Tamra Judge. They were like, let's cut the chip short. Let's go. Sorry. Get off the boat, ladies.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Sorry. We gotta keep it going. So the episode starts out. The girls are heading to the airboat adventures. Emily, Heather, and Gina are in one car. The other car has Katie, Gretchen, and Jen. Shannon's running late. Both cars are discussing what happened with Tamara last night. Not shocked here. Gina tells Emily that Heather said that she called the journalist and confirmed what Tamara said was true and that Katie was lying. Here's where I'm confused.

[Matt Meegan]

Okay, well, you know what we should clear up real quick. That bothers me. People are saying about they call basically you and Tamara bloggers, because this word blogger, I think, has gotten so out of context. A journalist, a podcaster, a blogger, a Bravo content creator. There's a vast difference between all of these people. So Gina calling a journalist is not the same thing as talking to a quote unquote blogger. With the blogger they're using in the context of the show are basically Bravo content creators, right?

[Sophie Cunningham]

Well, I wouldn't say that Kiki Monique is a Bravo content creator.

[Matt Meegan]

Well, she has an actual radio show.

[Sophie Cunningham]

That's not saying she has a radio show.

[Matt Meegan]

But you wouldn't call her a blogger.

[Sophie Cunningham]

No.

[Matt Meegan]

Right. That's. That's what I'm saying. I think we're getting the things all conflated with what? With the word blogger. We're Lumping it all in one. Because people are calling out Tamara, saying Tamara is a blogger. Like, she's not. She's a podcaster. She's a housewife who runs a very successful podcast. That's not the same thing as being a blogger.

[Sophie Cunningham]

But also, if you are a blogger, fine. But that's not who we're talking about in this instance.

[Matt Meegan]

Correct? Yes, that's the point I wanted to make.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Yeah, but also, this is where I'm confused. Okay, so Katie's lying, but what else is new? Yeah, but. Okay, Katie's line. But also. So it's so obvious to me that so is Gretchen.

[Matt Meegan]

Oh, 100%. And I think Jen gives the tell at the end of the episode, which we can talk about now if you want. But this. It was a big moment for me because Jen says in her talking head eventually, even if she did say it, and to me, that's an immediately. Oh, she said it.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Matt Meegan]

If you're saying even if she did say it, she said it.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Yeah. So the girls arrive at the airboat adventures to see some alligators. Shannon is having a panic attack.

[Matt Meegan]

What else is new?

[Sophie Cunningham]

The hair is askew. She's having a panic attack. So she's late. They decide they want to leave her, but she still needs her coat.

[Matt Meegan]

Okay, Shannon, come on.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Once you're late, then you can't ask production to go get your code.

[Matt Meegan]

Well, are there Xanax in the code? Because then maybe they should get the coat. Can I have the coat, please? Are there some Zannies in the pocket are terrible.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Xanax from the night before in the coat.

[Matt Meegan]

I think she took them all.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Then Gina explains that she's having a lot of anxiety and being late does not help. And Shan starts crying and saying, well, I had a panic attack or anxiety attack.

[Matt Meegan]

That's Shannon's perpetual state is an anxiety attack.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Well, mine too.

[Matt Meegan]

Well, yeah, but you handle it a little bit better than she does, I think.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Are you giving me a compliment?

[Matt Meegan]

You know, you look really good today. The hair is giving me. I'm telling you, stop the insanity.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Obsessed with me.

[Matt Meegan]

You look so beautiful, too.

[Sophie Cunningham]

So creepy. Scoot over. But the girls arrive at Bourbon House for dinner. They try fried oysters at the bar, and Emily makes fun of Heather. Heather and Emily started arguing and didn't even notice that Gina was honestly choking.

[Matt Meegan]

She. Yes, she was, but I don't.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Also don't think Gina needs to be off the show.

[Matt Meegan]

That's fine. I had this conversation with Erica, too. You both enjoy Gina. That's great.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Well, then why are you getting mad about it?

[Matt Meegan]

I.

[Sophie Cunningham]

There's no reason. Like, why are you all wrapped up?

[Matt Meegan]

I think I said it's the vocal fry. But also, you know, Gina's doing her job this season. I feel like she's playing the middle. The middle person. The middle orange. I don't know. Something about it just doesn't. I did like that she called Shannon out on being late.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Matt Meegan]

Which is a through line. I feel like on Housewives this week, because we've dealt with Lisa being late and then Shannon being late.

[Sophie Cunningham]

So I get between the lateness and the headbands. Enough is enough.

[Matt Meegan]

Oh, the headband's gotta go. That Gretchen look.

[Sophie Cunningham]

The confessional with the.

[Matt Meegan]

With the.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Did you see the drunk drawn picture of.

[Matt Meegan]

No.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Oh, he did one. It's so good.

[Matt Meegan]

Oh, I gotta look it up. Drunk. Look up drunk Tron. If you guys don't follow him on Instagram. Or him or her. I don't know, whatever the pronouns are. But drunk Tron is amazing.

[Sophie Cunningham]

So good.

[Matt Meegan]

No, but that look was like. It was like Jackie Kennedy Onassis but, like, bought it on Teemu. Do you know what I mean? Like, it.

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[Matt Meegan]

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[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Sophie Cunningham]

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[Sophie Cunningham]

Then at dinner, Gina brings up that she called the journalists and they confirmed that Katie did say that to Kiki. Gretchen wonders why they're talking about it if it wasn't published. She says she doesn't have proof, so why would she believe Kiki? The girls want to call Kiki, and Jen says that if she were Katie, she would be dialing Kiki right now. In Katie's confessional, she explains the last fall, she went to dinner with Jen, Gretchen, and all of their significant others. And she says that's when Gretchen and Slade told them at the night of Naked Wasted, she felt sick and they went to the hospital and she did a toxicology report, and they found drugs in her system.

[Matt Meegan]

So at this point, are we believing Katie?

[Sophie Cunningham]

At this point, I believe that Katie told Kiki Monique. At this point, I also believe she told Kiki Monique because Slade and Gretchen told her that story.

[Matt Meegan]

Gretchen, I feel, at this point had not been asked back yet. If we're going back to when this conversation happened at that dinner.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Oh, okay.

[Matt Meegan]

Right.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Oh, I think the unfilmed conversation.

[Matt Meegan]

So I don't think if. I don't know if this was Gretchen and Slade trying to get back on the show, if it was them not being on the show and wanting to get at Tamra, and they thought Katie was the vehicle to do it. They knew. They knew by last season. Katie obviously is gonna take things like she did with the paparazzi with Heather last season and just use them to her advant. She's. She should, on paper, be an amazing housewife.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Matt Meegan]

And something isn't working with the way.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Because I don't think she wants to be the shit talk. The same way Jen's doing it is what Katie's doing.

[Matt Meegan]

Well, Jen is a different level of disingenuous to me. I think what Katie's problem is is that she hasn't given herself enough time to make real relationships.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Well, not like anyone's trying.

[Matt Meegan]

Right. But don't you think that if she had built at least a connection with these women, maybe last season, going like, you don't care enough because she doesn't. There aren't high enough stakes with her, with the women.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Yeah. Whether she's there or not, it's like there's no real relationship. And we're hearing the same thing over and over and over again. But to me now, this story isn't about Katie. I don't care about Katie. I care about Gretchen and Slade telling this to Katie.

[Matt Meegan]

Correct. And what their purpose and reason was.

[Sophie Cunningham]

And was it to talk shit about Tamara because they're. Or was it because they're truly upset by it? Is it because they wanted it to come out on the show? Is it because they wanted to be back on the show? I mean, there's a million different reasons why it could have happened.

[Matt Meegan]

Yeah. And I mean, obviously they wanted back on the show no matter what.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Well, why is Jen pretending she doesn't remember this conversation?

[Matt Meegan]

That's it. The problem with goddamn Jen, she has been lying since the beginning of the season. And no, she gets away with it. No one calls her out. Do you remember at the beginning of the season, Gina said, jen, you said that Katie's a con artist. And Jen pulled her whole innocence act. I would never say. And it got dropped. And no one presses her on anything. It was the same with the video that Katie took of Shannon that she originally said she let Jen and Alexis listen to it. And Jen vehemently denied it and it just was let go. It's like, oh, okay, Jen, you're. People are saying all these things and you're always. I would never do that.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Do you think that nobody goes against Jen because Jen got a good. Had a good season last year?

[Matt Meegan]

I think that a factor for sure. I mean, Jen is. I don't. I think she is interesting to watch. I think there's a lot of story there that we're missing out on. And I. Hopefully they start digging into it and. And she gets, you know, more of.

[Sophie Cunningham]

A.

[Matt Meegan]

Combative people about what she's saying. She's just. They just let her slide with things. It's crazy. I. I think at this point you should be able to tell that Jen is lying.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Yeah. Then they pan to Tamara going to see her therapist. She tells her what happened in New Orleans. Tamara explains that she tried to call me before dinner, but I didn't answer. It's not a shock. I never. And this is not just a Tamara thing. I don't ever answer the phone.

[Matt Meegan]

Can we Just please talk about the fact that your voicemail we hear is, I forgot. Don't leave me a voicemail.

[Sophie Cunningham]

And Tamara goes, hey, babe, I forgot about that part. My voicemail does say, hi, it's Teddy. Please don't leave a message. And then they pan to, hi, babe.

[Commercial Announcer]

It'S T.

[Sophie Cunningham]

I forgot about that. But she said she knew it was gonna be hard on her going into dinner. And she admits that she took half a Xanax and had two drinks. And since she got home, none of them called her. Is what she says to the therapist correct?

[Matt Meegan]

We do get into that later with the scene with Heather.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Yeah. And then we get. They're all home now. Emily and Shane send Luke off on his playdate. Emily says Luke was calling her over and over again in New Orleans. She tells Shane that since she got back, Luke is talking to her like a B. And Shane says, it doesn't happen with me. It only happens with you. But that's common with all kids, that they will act one way with their mom and one way with their dad. 100.

[Matt Meegan]

Especially boys. I feel like I've watched Cruise with you and then Cruise with Edwin and I. There's a distinct difference in the way he acts.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Yeah, Cruise with me.

[Commercial Announcer]

He's like, yeah, mommy and this.

[Sophie Cunningham]

And then with Edwin, he's gonna love this. Later, it's like, what's up?

[Matt Meegan]

Yes. So bro. He's so bro with me. And I'm like, cruz, you don't have to be bro with me, boy.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Oh, it's so good. But Emily does end up getting emotional. And I think what's happening here is they're having a disconnect. Emily and Shane, because Shane's, you know, part of it. This is airing on television. I think Shane's trying to protect the kids a little bit where Emily's trying to be completely transparent with what they're going through.

[Matt Meegan]

Do you're saying you feel like Shane would have rather not talked about the son's issue on camera? Okay. I think what Emily's doing is good, though.

[Sophie Cunningham]

I think it's good. I think it's helpful. I think it'll change a lot of lives. But I think Shane, it makes him kind of close up. And then it makes Emily feel like, you know, when you're having a conversation and it feels one sided and. But it's something you're really passionate about. It hurts you.

[Matt Meegan]

Yeah.

[Sophie Cunningham]

I think that's why she ended up getting emotional.

[Matt Meegan]

I do. I do too. And I think it's, you know, it's probably. Is if really affecting their marriage because she's taking what's happening with the sun and kind of putting it on her.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Matt Meegan]

And I know maybe Shane doesn't know how to bring her down from that in a way that's conducive to not then leading to a fight.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Correct. Then Heather and Tamara meet for lunch. Heather asks what happened that night, and Tamara admits that she had a Xanax. And then she tells Heather she feels like she's on an island by herself. Tamara tells Heather she didn't get a call from her. And then Heather says she called her that night and Tamara hung up on her.

[Matt Meegan]

Right. Which, you know, Tamara probably doesn't remember, so we have to let that slide.

[Sophie Cunningham]

But the one that was only one call the night of, does that count?

[Matt Meegan]

Uh, it. I think it. I mean, I. I know that Tamara really just wanted somebody to say, like, hey, are you okay? And she's not getting that.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Yeah, she hasn't gotten it all season.

[Matt Meegan]

Right. And so, you know, should she have acted the way she did at that dinner? Obviously she could have handled it a different way. But I get why Tamara is upset with Heather. Cause Heather is probably her best friend on the show.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Yeah, for sure.

[Matt Meegan]

And so she just wants someone to be like, are you okay?

[Sophie Cunningham]

Which Heather does a little bit at this lunch.

[Matt Meegan]

Right. Until Cody walks into the scene.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Just because you know Cody by name, because you think he's the hot waiter.

[Matt Meegan]

It's the hot waiter. It's a thing. Cody is going to be on Watch what Happens live as a bartender, we can call it right now. I guarantee you Andy Cohen will have that man as a bartender on Watch what Happens.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Like, oh, my gosh. I really hope that happens.

[Matt Meegan]

I hope it does for him too.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Well, and for us, there's a little funny meme too that was made. And it's like Tamara's face asking, like, was the sparkling water. Do you recommend it?

[Matt Meegan]

Oh, right. So obviously Teddi also noticed Cody. She's trying to pretend like she didn't. Teddy, I found him on Instagram already. I can guarantee it. You follow him.

[Commercial Announcer]

I'm going to.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Slid into his DMs. Hey, Cody.

[Matt Meegan]

To be another gay bestie. I got a feeling. We'll see. Reach out to us Codes.

[Sophie Cunningham]

I'm busy. I'm busy, Cody. Don't worry about that. Then Emily, Jen and Gretchen meet at the bar. Gretchen doesn't know if she's being naive about Katie. And Katie had said she had no issue with calling Kiki at dinner. But then why didn't she Jen wonders that if Gretchen did say this to Katie. Katie. Why Katie would tell the bloggers. Okay, some things to break down here. The reason Gretchen isn't upset about this in general is because she doesn't want it to come out that she did it, that she told a group of people about this. Also, she changed her story.

[Matt Meegan]

No, I was just going to say we missed. Well, we missed. Yes. But she says to Tamara in the car, she did go to the hospital. And then cut to right to her confessional where she says, I did not go to the hospital, but I should have. Yeah, that immediately should tell you. Gretchen said it to some effect.

[Sophie Cunningham]

To some effect. Gretchen said it. And Gretchen can't even keep track of what she did say.

[Matt Meegan]

Right. And why is Slade calling Matt? They. So they went on Juicy Scoop. Did you see this?

[Sophie Cunningham]

No, I didn't see this.

[Matt Meegan]

Okay, so Gretchen and Slade went on Juicy Scoop, and they broke it down and said Slade called Matt just to be like, hey, why is your wife doing this? But that doesn't make sense either, because why.

[Sophie Cunningham]

But even if so, okay, maybe they did tell Katie in confidence, but they still told Katie 100%.

[Matt Meegan]

That's what I'm saying. Gretchen is. She's lying, saying that she never said it. But I think what happened is they're worried that if this were to be brought up on camera, that it could either a lead to, I don't know, like a lawsuit for defamation on Tamara's end, if they're saying that Tamara drugged her, or like a Phaedra situation on In Atlanta season nine where Phaedra lied about Candy trying to drug Portia. And. And she was immediately let go from the show. And if they're like, oh, crap, Gretchen did get back on the show and is this gonna blow up her spot now by Katie revealing this, that could possibly be it.

[Sophie Cunningham]

But that's where I'm having the problems. I don't. At this point, Katie is a non discussion to me in regards to this issue.

[Matt Meegan]

Well, but the. Yeah, I mean, I.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Something is still bugging you about Katie telling Kiki. To me this doesn't shock me.

[Matt Meegan]

Well, I just don't understand what the point was. I think Katie just wants to be liked almost. Is that why she's just telling random people things like.

[Sophie Cunningham]

But I don't think. I think she probably have hung out with Kiki Monique a couple times. They became pals by pals. Like, you know, the type where you go to, you know, drinks and you see each other and you hang out. And I think she was Gossiping with her, Right?

[Matt Meegan]

No, that's what I'm 100%. But Keke's obviously in this world in a way that's like, kind of like off to the side radio Andy. But, like, you have to assume if you're gonna mention something that severe, that it's gonna come out at some point, but it can't.

[Sophie Cunningham]

I don't think that Katie expected it to come out through Tamra.

[Matt Meegan]

I don't think Tamara. I think Tamara was going through. When Gretchen got back on the show, it was. Is naked wasted gonna come back up? Right? It was. That was probably in the back of her mind because obviously it's one of the things people still talk about to this day. And it was, do I get ahead of what's about to happen because she knew this information, or do I not mention it because it's something so kind of dark and devastating? Like. Because once something's said, even if it's not true, there are some people who are going to be like, yeah, but.

[Sophie Cunningham]

That'S what's bothering me, because it. Gretchen and Slade doing this back and forth thing really down. I don't even have the word for it, but for me, it just. It makes me feel like they're liars.

[Matt Meegan]

No, they. Why? I agree with you. I think that they're obviously lying. I think there's so many instances that point out that they're lying and they're trying to cover their tracks and. But what I don't understand about Katie is why she is trying to protect Gretchen so much in this situation.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Because she sold her out.

[Matt Meegan]

And now look what happened that she. They. She throw. Jen and Gretchen are making ridiculous Instagram reels that they're swearing aren't what they are. And Katie should have never have trusted those two.

[Sophie Cunningham]

No, I don't think Katie had a chance to really connect with anybody. And so I think she started connecting with people in the Bravo sphere.

[Matt Meegan]

Yeah.

[Sophie Cunningham]

To have conversation and try and figure out what it is that she was going through. And this is what happened.

[Matt Meegan]

I want Katie to be a good housewife.

[Sophie Cunningham]

So Katie, in her confessional, asks the producer if she should tell the real story or if she should be protecting Gretchen. To me, that's it.

[Matt Meegan]

Well, that shows the producers know that Gretchen's lying.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Yeah. I mean, I think that they know that she's lying. And we have Matt saying he knows that she. Matt doesn't completely reiterate the story, but he does say she did not say that. They did not say that.

[Matt Meegan]

Why do you think that he chooses to be kind of vague because I.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Think he's trying to stay out of the drama, even though he's in the drama.

[Matt Meegan]

Does Matt try to stay out of the drama?

[Sophie Cunningham]

No, but I think he wants to and I think so. I think when it's happening in real time, like when it's not like a sit down scene between them, I think he accidentally lets himself get involved. But when it's them sitting there, he knows he's already prepped himself. I think he's trying to stay out of the drama and just make a martini and look like the perfect husband. Yeah, well, you're holding back, I don't think.

[Matt Meegan]

I think Matt loves the drama. I mean, we saw what last season with Shannon and then we saw him going off on Tamra when Katie was walking out of the Heather's birthday party. I think he enjoys it. I think that. I think they kind of. I wish that Katie would actually play up the campiness of like, yeah, I lie about it. Like I'm, I'm just lying and causing chaos and I wish she would just blow shit up. I wish she would have just threw Gretchen under the bus at that Tamara Xanax table.

[Sophie Cunningham]

That's what I'm saying. That's what I want. Katie, just blow it up.

[Matt Meegan]

The reunion. Katie, we need you to blow it up.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Blow it up. We're going to end this episode with one piece of advice. Blow it up.

[Matt Meegan]

You got it in you, Katie.

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[Matt Meegan]

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A GLP1 helped you lose weight, but now you're noticing unwanted facial changes. The weight came off, but facial volume loss and dull, sagging skin are making you look older. That's where the next phase of your weight loss journey comes in. There's before weight loss, after weight loss, and the after. After help restore and refresh your facial skin and reclaim your natural looking youthful glow. To learn more, visit faceafterweightloss.com that's face.

[Sophie Cunningham]

Afterweightloss.Com this is Sophie Cunningham from Show Me Something. Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea, or osa, in adults with obesity? They may be happening to you without you knowing. If anyone has ever said you snore loudly, or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness, irritability and concentration issues, it may be due to osa. OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation. Learn more at don'tsleep on OSA.com this information is provided by Lily, a medicine company. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.