The Cousins Hit a Nerve (RHOSLC Recap)

Summary

Two Ts In A Pod: "The Cousins Hit a Nerve" (RHOSLC Recap)

Podcast: Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge
Date: January 8, 2026
Hosts for This Episode: Dolores and Tamra Judge
Episode Focus: Recap and analysis of Real Housewives of Salt Lake City (RHOSLC) episodes 15 and 16—the season finale, with a preview of the upcoming reunion and deep dives into cast dynamics.

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Episode Overview

Dolores and Tamra tackle the last two episodes of RHOSLC’s current season, dissecting the drama, cast confrontations, and lingering mysteries (notably, rumors and accusations around substance abuse and cheating). The episode is filled with personal anecdotes, sharp commentary, and playful banter, keeping the Housewives’ spirit alive while addressing the authenticity and emotional undertones behind the cast’s interactions. The hosts also look ahead with anticipation to the reunion, particularly a moment where Andy Cohen reportedly walks offstage.

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Major Discussion Points

1. RHOSLC Season Finale & Reunion Trailer (03:40 – 05:08)

• Both hosts agree the season finale "got under my skin just a little bit" (Dolores, 03:44), particularly regarding certain cast members—hints aimed at Heather ("Does it start with an H?" – Tamra, 03:49).
• Notable Moment: Andy Cohen’s walk-off during the reunion is discussed as "a first," highlighting the cast’s chaotic dynamic.
  • “They would not shut the fuck up... He said, ‘Find a new host.’” (Dolores, 04:34)

2. Physical Comedy & Klutzie Housewives (05:12 – 07:55)

• Rehash of Angie’s accident (the ketchup/"blood" incident), with commentary about Housewives being accident-prone.
• Anecdote: Vicki’s infamous BravoCon faceplant post-breast surgery (“She face planted into the ground with no hands stopping her…” – Dolores, 06:22).
• The hosts playful banter about “Ultimate Girls Trip: Klutzes Edition.”

3. Social Isolation & Substance Abuse Accusations (07:55 – 10:35)

• The group is "gunning" for Meredith, with allegations stacked against her.
  • “I don’t think Meredith can win with this group... just leave her alone.” (Dolores, 07:55)
• Discussion about rumors regarding Meredith’s possible substance abuse following the airplane incident.
  • “If the plane was so bad, why did no one stop it?” (Tamra, 08:59)
• Questions about cast authenticity and off-camera truths.

4. Whitney, Bronwyn, and Mary on Meredith & Substance Abuse (09:18 – 10:35)

• Lunch scene where Whitney compares Meredith to her own father, and Mary notes her own experience with substance abuse in her family.
  • "She’s been like this as long as I’ve known her." (Dolores, 09:53)
• Tamra suggests, “If I was getting accused, I'd be like, I'll take a drug test right now.” (Tamra, 10:16)

5. Infidelity Rumor: Seth Spotted in NYC (16:17 – 19:08)

• Bronwyn claims to spot Seth (Meredith’s husband) with another woman at an Italian restaurant, speculating infidelity but not immediately telling Meredith.
  • "That's a phone call you make to a friend immediately." (Tamra, 16:48)
• Dolores questions Bronwyn’s delay in sharing this, adding skepticism to the claim.

6. Housewife Loyalty Rules (17:46 – 18:28)

• Banter about the “unwritten law”: If it’s not your good friend, “leave it alone.”
• Personal anecdotes highlight how cast members handle real-life loyalty and secrets.

7. Brittany and Family Drama—“Pick Me” Mentality (20:32 – 22:44)

• Critique of Brittany’s emotional outbursts surrounding her estranged family, particularly the issue of not receiving a Mother's Day text.
  • “She just needed attention.” (Dolores, 22:50)
• Observation of "no-tears" crying becoming common on Housewives.
• Memorable Quote: “There’s like, she has a pick me mentality sometimes.” (Dolores, 21:14)

8. Meredith vs. The Group & Storming Out (22:52 – 23:40)

• Meredith’s frequent storm-outs are dissected; Tamra criticizes the optics for a Housewife.
  • “Meredith left a lot in these scenes. A lot in this season. Storming out. You can't do it. It's not a good look for a housewife.” (Tamra, 23:40)

9. Drinking Accusations—Who Crosses the Line? (25:04 – 28:13)

• Scene on the yacht: Was Brittany seasick or drunk? Bronwyn says it was from drinking, leading Lisa to ask if Brittany is an alcoholic.
  • “I don’t think at all that she’s an alcoholic. I think she was just having a good time on the trip.” (Tamra, 26:10)
• Broader reflection on substance abuse accusations throughout Housewives history.

10. Are Accusations Real or for the Cameras? (29:05 – 30:54)

• Dolores suspects some accusations are for show, as RHOSLC members “do things just for the cameras.”
• Both hosts agree the series is still entertaining, but question the authenticity of the drama.

11. Bronwyn vs. Meredith: Off-Camera Confrontations (43:05 – 45:55; 51:43 – 53:16)

• Bronwyn claims Meredith grilled her about the lunch, leading to a heated confrontation, accusations of "gaslighting," and debates about off-camera versus on-camera exchanges.

12. The Greek Play & Emotional Catharsis (53:49 – 55:21)

• The cast’s group experience at the Greek play is analyzed; Bronwyn in particular is moved, leading to self-reflection and admissions about loyalty and group dynamics.
  • “Bronwyn, it was like cathartic for her... She’s so well spoken.” (Tamra, 55:15)

13. Closing Thoughts on the Season (63:54 – 64:38)

• Overall praise for the season despite limited "real" drama.
  • “It was a lot of bickering... it was the plane, and then it was the damn Meredith has substance abuse. And that was it.” (Dolores, 64:24)
• Reunion anticipation—hopes for answers, particularly regarding Andy Cohen’s walk-off.

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• Andy Cohen Walks Out (04:32):
  "They would not shut the fuck up. So he's like, you know what? I'm out of here. And they're like, no, Andy, don't go." (Dolores)

• Tamra on Substance Abuse Drama (10:16):
  “If I was me and I was getting accused, I’d be like, I’ll take a drug test right now.”

• Dolores on Housewife Loyalty (16:59):
  “That’s what you do... That’s what you do.”

• Tamra on Brittany’s Drama (22:44):
  “Or she can't be mad that somebody is not ask. It's more like she was mad that someone didn't ask her. All right, I get it.”

• Dolores on Accusations (26:22):
  “There’s a lot of substance abuse accusations going on here on every show.”

• On Meredith’s Consistency (62:10):
  “Maybe that’s just the way she speaks.” (Dolores)
  “A person who has a problem is banged up. I feel like at these events that I've seen her at, and she's just the same.” (Tamra)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | |-----------|--------------| | 03:40–05:08 | Recap of finale, reunion trailer, Andy Cohen walk-off | | 05:12–07:55 | Klutzy Housewives, Vicki’s BravoCon fall | | 07:55–10:35 | Ganging up on Meredith, substance abuse allegations | | 16:17–19:08 | Seth infidelity rumor, handling friend loyalty | | 20:32–22:44 | Brittany’s family drama, “Pick me” critique | | 22:52–23:40 | Meredith storming out analyzed | | 25:04–28:13 | Brittany’s drinking, accusations, and 'camera courage' | | 29:05–30:54 | Are the fights authentic or for show? | | 43:05–45:55 | Behind-the-scenes info, off-camera drama | | 51:43–53:16 | Bronwyn vs. Meredith confrontation, accusation of 'gaslighting' | | 53:49–55:21 | Greek play, cast’s emotional experience | | 63:54–64:38 | Season wrap-up; preview of the reunion |

---

Tone and Style

The conversation is candid, sarcastic, and unfiltered—true to the Housewives recapping tradition. Tamra and Dolores blend humor, personal experience, and empathy with sharp judgments, creating a space that feels both supportive and gossipy.

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Conclusion & Looking Ahead

• Dolores and Tamra recognize the season may have lacked depth in drama or resolution.
• Substance abuse and loyalty accusations continue to drive plotlines.
• The hosts are excited for the upcoming reunion, voicing hopes for real answers and noting that Andy Cohen’s dramatic walk-off sets the stage for must-see TV.

Final Words:
“We will be recapping the reunion. I'm very excited. I hope we get some answers.” (Dolores, 64:38)

Transcript

[Tamara Judge]

This is an I heart podcast.

[Jill Winterstein]

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[Jill Winterstein]

Hi, it's Jill Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast where we talk about astrology, natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend Krista Williams. It can change you in the best way possible.

[Dolores]

Dance with the change, dance with the breakdowns.

[Jill Winterstein]

The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves.

[Dolores]

So I'm like delusionally proud of my chart.

[Jill Winterstein]

Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple PODC, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

[Special Agent Riegel]

This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.

[Narrator (Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

[Special Agent Riegel]

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nancy Glass]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession Changed everything.

[Narrator (Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

I was a monster.

[Nancy Glass]

Listen to Burden of guilt, Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app and Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tamara Judge]

Two Teas in a Pod with Teddy Mellencamp and Tamara Judge.

[Dolores]

Hi, guys. Welcome back to another episode of Two Teas in a Pod with myself and Dolores and her little dog.

[Tamara Judge]

This dog's breath smells so bad. I love you. Only a mother could love this. Oh, she's not eating. It's just a big problem.

[Dolores]

Oh, man. Now, today we're going to cover two episodes of Salt Lake City because we were off last week.

[Tamara Judge]

Salt Lake City. So good.

[Dolores]

We got a lot to talk about because I don't think it was.

[Tamara Judge]

I was.

[Dolores]

It was good, but the season finale, it got under my skin just a little bit.

[Tamara Judge]

It did. Oh, well, look at somebody specific get under your skin. Yes. Does it start with an H?

[Dolores]

Yes.

[Tamara Judge]

I know you were gonna say that. I, I, I. Okay.

[Dolores]

The cousins. The cousins, yeah. Okay, we'll talk, we'll talk, we'll talk. That's what we're here for.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Dolores]

So Salt Lake City, episode 15 and 16. We say goodbye to the Salt Lake City girls until the.

[Tamara Judge]

The reunion. Did you see the reunion trailer?

[Dolores]

Yeah. Can we talk about the reunion trailer right now, just a little bit?

[Tamara Judge]

Sure, why not? Why don't we start with that?

[Dolores]

Is that the very first time Andy's ever walked off stage?

[Tamara Judge]

Oh, I didn't see that part.

[Dolores]

Yes, he walked off stage. They would not shut the fuck up. So he's like, you know what? I'm out of here. And they're like, no, Andy, don't go. They were all talking over each other and calling each other names, and Andy's trying to shut them up, and he's like, I'm out.

[Tamara Judge]

Find a new host. He said, find a new host.

[Dolores]

No, I'm just kidding.

[Tamara Judge]

You added this,

[Dolores]

but that was the very first time I think that's ever happened. Epic. Well, it starts out they're not disappointing us.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. I'd love to see somebody else get in trouble.

[Dolores]

Angie being a klutz again and getting hurt and colliding member and I don't know exactly what hit her in the mouth, but there was shit everywhere. And at first I thought that was blood on the.

[Tamara Judge]

So did I. But I'm like, no, that's ketchup. Because if that was blood, she would be getting stitches. But they did, like, make it like it was.

[Dolores]

Yeah, it looked like blood. And then I'm, like, looking at her like, where's she bleeding from? And then I'm like, ah, it's ketchup.

[Tamara Judge]

It's ketchup. It was ketchup. And.

[Dolores]

But it did swell up the next day.

[Tamara Judge]

Angie, honey, you know you have the malarkia, as we say in Italian. You need to get the oil and the lady to do the prayer over the thing. Yeah, they should do it where the evil eye. Is she wearing the evil eye like every good Greek?

[Dolores]

She probably is.

[Tamara Judge]

I don't see it. I looked for it.

[Dolores]

They need to get all the housewives that are Klutzes and do, like an ultimate girls trip with them. Vicki, there's a ton of them. Just put them all in on a

[Tamara Judge]

trip a lot of people don't know about. Vicky's fall at BravoCon.

[Dolores]

I was there. I watched it.

[Tamara Judge]

She talk about that for a second.

[Dolores]

She face planted into the ground with no hands stopping her because she had just had her boobs done. She had her arms to her side. She just. Her toes got. She was like toes stuck under a pole.

[Tamara Judge]

And boom. Let's explain what it is. So there's a studio, guys, and you've seen it on our Instagrams, where we do, like this free dancing and a sparkly wall, and you do emotional or singles and motion and music. But there's a camera on a track and the camera, like, you've seen it before on TV and shows. Yes. And there's going across from room.

[Dolores]

And how many times, how many times they say, be careful, watch your step, Be careful, watch your steps.

[Tamara Judge]

Every person that walked in there was told at least five times, be careful of the track. Well, Vicki seemed to get her toes caught underneath the track and fell flat on her face, arms at her side, with none other than who was with her. You.

[Dolores]

I was with her. Her boyfriend Eddie.

[Tamara Judge]

Her brother.

[Dolores]

Her brother was there and he starts yelling, becky.

[Tamara Judge]

Becky. A doctor had to be called.

[Dolores]

Heather and Terry were there too.

[Tamara Judge]

Thank God we had a doctor in the house. Heather and Terry were there stripping her clothes.

[Dolores]

She starts, like, taking her clothes.

[Tamara Judge]

She thought that she could have injured herself. She just. She's a week out from. From breast surgery.

[Dolores]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, she had an issue they had to go in and. And fix. So.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, yeah, they had literally taken out her drains to go to Bravo Con.

[Dolores]

She's a klutz.

[Tamara Judge]

Yes.

[Dolores]

But, you know, back to Salt Lake City at this point, I don't think Meredith can win with this group. They have, you know, a boner for her and they were going after her for everything. And again, what happens in housewife world when somebody does that, we feel sorry for the person that's being singled out.

[Tamara Judge]

Right. Yeah.

[Dolores]

Right. And I don't, I don't know, it's just like, just leave her alone at this point. Leave her alone. What are you doing to her? Because the fact, this is all because of the airplane. And now they want to make a point with no evidence that she was intoxicated, maybe taking something. And now they're going to follow it through for the rest of the season to say that she has a substance abuse. Possibly.

[Tamara Judge]

I think it's her, I mean even. Okay, so we'll get to what Mary says. And yeah, this is what they're saying. But I'm still stuck on, if the plane was so bad, why did no one stop it?

[Dolores]

Yeah, it just falls flat for most people. I believe it really does.

[Tamara Judge]

Well, I'm just not, I need, there's, there's pieces missing. What do they say? The math isn't mass math. Right?

[Dolores]

Correct. Yeah. And then Whitney Bronwen and Mary go to lunch and that whole conversation when Whitney compares Meredith's actions to her dad's.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. And, and, and Mary compares it, she goes, I live with someone who's, who has a substance abuse problem. I live with it. This is very familiar to me. And it, you know, this whole time I, I, I say to myself, is this Meredith's affect? Is this just the way she talks? Because she's been like this as long as I've known her.

[Dolores]

Meredith has not changed since the day she stepped on to the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City.

[Tamara Judge]

No. And I have asked, I've asked at one time when I first met her. I'm like, is she on something? Because like is she talks kind of slow and your husband, everyone drinks.

[Dolores]

She has the Joan Crawford wire hanger. Yeah. And so it's kind of like

[Tamara Judge]

listen, after Traders, I'm not going to say anything about anyone who isn't something like, you know, but if I was me and I was getting accused, I'd be like, let me, I'll take a drug test right now.

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[Jill Winterstein]

Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast where we talk about astrology, natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a

[Dolores]

mini driver, the Irish traveler said when I was 16. You're gonna have a terrible time with men.

[Jill Winterstein]

Actor, storyteller and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives and I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like Are Misunderstood A Sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

[Dolores]

He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all.

[Jill Winterstein]

If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity and real life, this episode is a must. Listen Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your podcast.

[Amanda Knox]

What if mind control is real?

[Dolores]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[Amanda Knox]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[Dolores]

When you look at your car, you're

[Ben Higgins]

going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

[Amanda Knox]

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

[Special Agent Riegel]

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

[Amanda Knox]

Can you get someone to join your cult?

[Jill Winterstein]

NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.

[Amanda Knox]

Nlp, AKA Neuro Linguistic Programming is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

[Special Agent Riegel]

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[Amanda Knox]

the story of nlp, its crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, NLP might actually work.

[Tamara Judge]

This is wild.

[Amanda Knox]

Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you you get your podcasts.

[Ben Higgins]

What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me is where culture meets the soul. A place for real conversation. Each episode I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks. And we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore. Loss that changes you Purpose when success isn't enough. Peace when your mind won't slow down. Faith when it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if youf Can Hear me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Special Agent Riegel]

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.

[Tamara Judge]

This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

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No one had ever seen anything like that.

[Dolores]

It was unbelievable.

[Special Agent Riegel]

This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

[Narrator (Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dolores]

So then Bronwyn says that she ran into Seth.

[Tamara Judge]

This.

[Dolores]

This later on gets very confusing to me because she. She insinuates, okay, that she saw him with another woman.

[Tamara Judge]

It was insinuate she saw him with another woman. She said, I was at an Italian restaurant with Todd and I saw him and he said it was an investor and the woman. It was just a very weird vibe.

[Dolores]

What I should have said. She was insinuating that maybe something else was going on.

[Tamara Judge]

Yes, that's true. She Was. But, you know, that's a. That's a phone call you make to a friend immediately.

[Dolores]

That's. Yes. If I'm out and I see. This actually did happen to me once. I saw a friend's husband out. He's walking. He's got a girl next to him walking. And I'm like, what is going on? And I called my friend and told

[Tamara Judge]

her, well, that's what you do.

[Dolores]

That's what you do.

[Tamara Judge]

I got a video going on. I got like, if it's my good friend, if it's not my good friend, leave it alone.

[Dolores]

Right.

[Tamara Judge]

Leave it alone.

[Dolores]

If it's not your good friend.

[Tamara Judge]

There's an unwritten law you make believe you don't see the person.

[Dolores]

Yeah. Just leave it alone.

[Tamara Judge]

That. Don't. Don't come up to me if you're with your gamada. Because if I. I don't see you, you don't see me, and that's. We're good to go.

[Dolores]

But what if it's a good friend? If it's a good friend, It's a good friend.

[Tamara Judge]

Then you're getting confronted.

[Dolores]

Yeah. Yeah, that's.

[Tamara Judge]

That's what happened. My cousin confronted Frank when he was with his girlfriend at the time. My cousin went right up to him and said, go home and

[Dolores]

wait.

[Tamara Judge]

I have a question.

[Dolores]

Did Frank's girlfriend ever come out or do anything publicly? The one that he cheated on? Because you talked about it.

[Narrator (Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

You've talked.

[Tamara Judge]

It Never. No, it was 27 years ago. You know, she don't want to come out, but. But, yeah, that.

[Dolores]

So some people do.

[Tamara Judge]

Oh, 27 years ago. Stay home. Who cares?

[Dolores]

Yeah. So I. I think. I think at this lunch, you know, I think that Mary was being sincere with her concerns about Meredith. I don't. But I don't think I can say the same for Whitney and Bronwyn.

[Tamara Judge]

Okay, so again, let's get back to the friend that Bronwyn is saying that she is. She's like, I saw Seth with a woman. And what. Why did she not tell her? And why is she saying it on camera?

[Dolores]

She waited five months. And that's another thing. I don't think Bronwyn would wait five seconds to repeat that. Oh, they do.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, I wish. I want mine done now. Do you have a different bra?

[Dolores]

I have a sports bra on because I'm gonna go work out after this. I already did my 100 sit ups today, girl. Wait. I just started using. I bought it a while ago, but I. It's just been sitting in my room. The vibration Plate.

[Tamara Judge]

Oh, everyone's using that. Is it good? What's it supposed to do?

[Dolores]

I don't know. Well, it's supposed to, like, lymphatic drainage and toning. I don't know. Like, I'm not really into, like, giving.

[Tamara Judge]

They'll be getting sold at Garage Sal sales by next.

[Dolores]

Well, I'm just using it to see if I like it, and so far I like it. I think it's cool. I don't know. It kind of just feels like everything's bouncing, jiggling around. Ten minutes. I do.

[Tamara Judge]

Ten minutes. I'm not so sure. Like, I think that's. That's a lazy replacement for the treadmill.

[Dolores]

Well, I don't think it replaces anything. I will never use it to replace working out cardio, anything like that. I think it's just something you can add. Okay, we'll see. I do have to say, like, I was doing planks on it, so that is definitely a workout because you have on it.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dolores]

So are doing squats. I just don't stand on it. I try to do, like, bent knees and hold a pose. But I think so far, I think I like it. We'll see. We'll see how long I can keep it up.

[Tamara Judge]

Okay. I'd rather head off to the spa like these girls.

[Blue Apron Advertiser]

Right.

[Tamara Judge]

Instead of working out. I'm such a big. When it comes to working out.

[Dolores]

Oh, my God.

[Tamara Judge]

But you know, at the spa, I think that it was a little off for Britney to say. No one brought up the fact or asked me if Olivia texted me yesterday. Like, she.

[Dolores]

Enough, enough with Olivia.

[Tamara Judge]

She's made it very clear that she chose her kids several times in their life over men.

[Dolores]

Her kids chose men over her kids.

[Tamara Judge]

That's what I meant. Men over her kids. Her kids have said, mom, I've done this. Why would anybody think you're getting a text on Mother's Day and you didn't. She doesn't seem like there. I feel like Britney has, like, a detachment.

[Dolores]

There's like, she has a pick me mentality sometimes. And it's kind of like if she's not in the mix of things, she just creates things to talk about. And I don't like that she does that. She's. It's already been been talked about that in her daughter's even filmed. Like, things are better now. They've moved on the daughter. Her and her daughter have hashed things out. It was early in the morning. They're in a different country. What is it, like, eight hours ahead? So, like, somebody said like, it's early at home. It's early.

[Tamara Judge]

They wouldn't be asking her anyway. It's not the topic. It's not. She. It's not her thing. You know, she has an estranged relationship with her kids and. And that's just the way it is. So they wouldn't be on their mind. I wouldn't. I would feel awkward to ask somebody like her. Did you hear from your daughter? Because chances are she didn't. So why would I bring it up? If she wanted to bring it up, that's on her.

[Dolores]

Did you think that Brittany was fake crying in the van?

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. A lot of no tears crying these days. Have you noticed?

[Dolores]

It's sometimes it's.

[Tamara Judge]

Well, I wouldn't know. I'm not a big crier, so.

[Dolores]

You're not a big crier, but sometimes it's hard to see on camera unless you are bawling. So like a lot of girls on Housewives, when they do start crying, they'll start to pat them away because of the makeup. The makeup. But you know, Britney said herself she chose men over her daughters. So she can't be mad when somebody brings that up.

[Tamara Judge]

Or she can't be mad that somebody is not ask. It's more like she was mad that someone didn't ask her. All right, I get it.

[Dolores]

But then she just needed attention.

[Tamara Judge]

I'm right. But then Meredith cannot stomach her. Like, she. I think she hates of all the franchises and everybody that doesn't get along. I think this is the most hateful relationship. This is.

[Dolores]

I think Mary too. I think Mary has a problem with her too.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. But Meredith. No one can stand this girl as much as Meredith. So then Meredith starts going after about. Well, you didn't validate my feelings with Brooke, but I don't think that was the place for that. Let's drop that. Like, we could leave that where it is. We got enough going on. We don't need to drag up the phone call with Brooks again. You know, we're good. And. And then, you know, and then again merit Meredith storming out because she just can't stand her. Meredith left a lot in these scenes. A lot in this season. Storming out. You can't do it. You got it. You cannot do it. It's not a good look for a housewife.

[Dolores]

Thoughts on Britney splashing the girls?

[Tamara Judge]

No big deal. Also, very childlike. Yeah, very child.

[Dolores]

Very immature. Very childlike. It's kind of like she is a lot of child.

[Tamara Judge]

I' around unicorn.

[Dolores]

I'm not in the mix.

[Tamara Judge]

True, True. Sleeps With a. A pack of stuffed animals. I won't even show you my room in the other room. Okay. I don't want to be a hypocrite. I like stuff that I like. Squishy pillows, but she's got. I'm not bringing them on vacation. I buy them when I'm.

[Dolores]

The hell do you do? What do you do with them? How many do you have?

[Tamara Judge]

A lot. Like seven or eight or ten.

[Dolores]

Those big old. The big old really soft ones or like.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, I just had one on the plane. I wore.

[Dolores]

What the hell?

[Tamara Judge]

You just put them in.

[Dolores]

They have their own room?

[Tamara Judge]

No, I throw them on the bed. And then, like, when the kids. Nieces and nephews come, maybe I'll. Maybe I'll part with them.

[Dolores]

Ava has some of those. Yeah, it was for a while. Every Christmas or birthday holiday. She wanted a new one. And Sarah's like, don't. Please don't. I need a new.

[Tamara Judge]

They're very cumbersome.

[Dolores]

I need a bigger house for them.

[Tamara Judge]

After I make believe, I buy them for the dog. But you get them on sale at CVS sometimes. Like, you know, whatever. They're cute. They're cute and they're comfortable. I like a good pillow. Okay. It makes for a good pillow. Anyway, so Meredith storms out again. Again. Yeah.

[Dolores]

Now, when Lisa and Brittany. When Lisa asked Brittany why she was drinking and throwing up on the yacht,

[Tamara Judge]

I thought she was more seasick than she was drunk. Drunk. But then. But then Bronwyn confirmed that it was from drink, and she kept, like, reloading. You know, some people feel they need to get drunk to film.

[Dolores]

I've. I've been like that sometimes. I call it liquid courage, camera, balls, whatever you want to call it. It's definitely easier if you are somebody that is not extremely outgoing. And I think that people would be shocked to know that in situation, I'm not exactly the most outgoing person, but if I have a future. No, I'm not in the room. I'm usually pretty quiet. And I know with my friends, it's a different story, but with, like, people. I don't know, maybe. Or could have fooled me. I know, I know, I know. But Lisa asked Brittany if she's an alcoholic.

[Tamara Judge]

I think they're just picking on her again. They're really just busting her chops again. And I don't. I don't think at all that she's an alcoholic. And I think she was just having really a good time on the. On the.

[Dolores]

I don't see those signs of her being.

[Tamara Judge]

I don't see it. I don't see it. There's a lot of. A lot of substance abuse accusations going

[Dolores]

on here on every show.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. What other one? What other one? Not on Potomac.

[Dolores]

We've had a few housewives arrested for DUIs.

[Tamara Judge]

Quite a few.

[Dolores]

Quite a few.

[Tamara Judge]

But here's the thing. It's. I think it's just a common thing. You know, it's very, like. I don't know what the statistics are, but they're really high. So.

[Dolores]

Yeah, I think that when you film, you, especially on trips, you spend so much time with people, your cast, you start seeing things that you probably wouldn't normally see. And that's where it comes out. When you see somebody that drinks a lot more or always has a drink in their hand or starts the day out or changes total personalities.

[Tamara Judge]

Like.

[Dolores]

I don't know.

[Tamara Judge]

I don't really see Meredith drinking a lot. Do you? Nope, I don't. So you know Brittany. Then, like, all of a sudden, it triggers Brittany to look.

[Dolores]

But that doesn't mean anything. That doesn't mean anything.

[Tamara Judge]

That's true. Yep. Yeah.

[Dolores]

That doesn't mean anything. And usually people. Sometimes people that do have drinking problems don't want.

[Tamara Judge]

You won't see it. Right. If it's a real.

[Dolores]

Because it's private. It's in the bedroom. It's in the bathroom. It's other places.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Dolores]

So people don't know. It's hiding.

[Tamara Judge]

It's hard for me to relate since it's. That's not my thing. Eating, for me is a different thing. Like. Yeah, but that's my thing. That's my vice. Eating a lot at one time is a thing, but whatever. We all have our vices. I just. Listen, we don't see it now. Maybe something will come out about it. But there's no proof. There's been no proof. No.

[Dolores]

So Brittany actually asked where Lisa heard this from?

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Dolores]

Like, she wants that out. She doesn't remember. She doesn't remember. And we see a clip of Meredith and Lisa talking about it in the bathtub. Do you think.

[Tamara Judge]

Oh, good old bathtub talk. Right.

[Dolores]

Do you think that Bronwyn said that to Meredith or Meredith is twisting her words?

[Tamara Judge]

No, I think that Bronwyn said it, but I think that Meredith. Well, I believe exactly. It went down exactly the way Bronwyn said. She said, meredith asked me if I heard it. And I said, well, I'm living with it. Yes, I've seen her drinking in the bathroom and whatever else and then. But I don't believe that Bronwyn Used the words alcoholic or whatever. She just confirmed it. That's all she said. Yeah. I do see her drinking a lot on the trip.

[Dolores]

Do you think that Meredith is doing this, Saying this to throw it in Britney's face? Because Brittany accused Meredith last season of crying and throwing up in the other room. Do you remember that? She had rooms. They had rooms next to each other, and she came out and said, oh, yeah, she was throwing up and crying. I don't know. Maybe it was just like a tit for tat. Like, oh, well, I'm gonna throw this in your face because you told everybody I was doing that last year.

[Tamara Judge]

They do do that. They do carry grudges from season to season. Like, they don't let up. It makes for a good tv. I don't mind it.

[Dolores]

I've seen a lot of things on social media where they said that Salt Lake City really started off strong, and it was a very slow decline.

[Tamara Judge]

What do you mean? The season?

[Dolores]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

I think it's so good. I don't.

[Dolores]

I think it's good. I think it's good. I think a little bit of it is performative. And they do things just for the cameras. And that's where I get. I think because I've been around for so long, I could see it. That's where I get, like, I can

[Tamara Judge]

see it, but I'm enjoying it so much, I don't want to see it. But I'll tell you what. What did surprise me this during this dinner is when Bronwyn gets up to take a call from Todd. So all these fights are not surprising to me. The accusations of who's being an alcoholic and who's fighting. Nothing right here is a big shocker to me. But when Bronwyn gets up and she's kind of off, she seems a little bit pissed off that Meredith repeated what she said. Or she figured, like, is this gonna come back to me? Because I think it's getting on her nerves that Meredith repeats what she says, and we'll see that in a little while. But she gets a call from Todd, and. And Todd is helping the mom move. That's not a bad person.

[Dolores]

No, that. That's actually. I thought, like, wow, that's really nice,

[Tamara Judge]

and there's some redemption there.

[Dolores]

And then I started thinking about it. Could you imagine, like, being in a house for 40 years and having to say goodbye? One of the reasons, like, me and Eddie talk about moving all the time. I have been in this house longer than I've been in any house, probably, other than my Childhood house in my life. Really in my life. And where this exact house that I am in right now.

[Tamara Judge]

We have.

[Dolores]

We've moved and then we rented it out and then we moved right back. And like we talk about it because we're like, we can go anywhere now because Sophia's an adult and going to be moving out soon and. And I'm attached to this damn house.

[Tamara Judge]

You do get attached. This woman raised her children 40 years.

[Dolores]

That's only been like, I don't know, 15 years for me. Could you imagine 40 years in the same house?

[Tamara Judge]

So they moved in when Bronwyn was six months old. She's only in her 30s, by the way. Yeah, so say 37 years. 40 years. I'll call it 40 years, whatever. But you know, I just think that the mother's really going. That can't be an easy time. And she's watching her mom go through this. But you know, it's funny to say who's there? The daughter. I mean, that they turn their back on. I don't. You know, if Todd's there. She has siblings. I guess they couldn't make it. I'm not judging anyone but the person.

[Dolores]

Are you talking about Bronwyn's siblings?

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Dolores]

Oh, she has. Did they talk about that?

[Tamara Judge]

Did I miss that? She has two sisters who were both pregnant when she was pregnant, I believe. And the mom only gave them showers, baby showers. Oh, that's right.

[Dolores]

That's right.

[Tamara Judge]

They were shopping in the Gap and for baby clothes. The mom was and said that Bronwyn didn't deserve them. And it hurts me to even repeat that. I need to repeat it. But look at the daughter who's taking care of you in the end, the one you were the hardest on. Yeah. And the husband who we all call so shitty, took them in and is there helping not his mom move, her mom move. Who isn't always that nice to her.

[Dolores]

Yeah, I mean, that's a good guy. Honestly.

[Tamara Judge]

Listen, I could see why you love him now. Bronwyn. I am not. You know, there he.

[Dolores]

Until he does powerful guy.

[Tamara Judge]

Then he talks. You know, he is shitty. He has an attitude. But there's things that she loves and we have to respect that.

[Dolores]

Yeah, well, Meredith stood up and was basically admitted that she was the one that told Lisa that someone told her. Britney is an alcoholic.

[Tamara Judge]

You don't care. She has no loss with love loss with Britney. She wants to be take the credit

[Dolores]

for it is is saying somebody's an alky less serious than calling someone an alcoholic. You know, I learned My lesson.

[Tamara Judge]

What's the difference?

[Dolores]

There is no difference. I learned my lesson last year when I called Shannon out for her drinking. I mean, what you didn't see is that I did try to help for months. And, you know, it was difficult for me to see somebody go through that and then continue to drink. Right. So I. I will never make that mistake again. You know, somebody has a problem, if she does or not, whatever, allegedly just try to help. And if you can't help. And that's one thing that I was thinking, like, if Meredith truly has a problem and they really think she has a problem, then why aren't they pulling her aside and saying something to her? Even if it's Mary off camera saying something, I'd rather it be on camera.

[Tamara Judge]

But even if it's talking, they're all not. Well, number one, I mean, I do have a theory with that. Tamara. Not everybody's receptive to number one, that type of criticism. True or question I get. Like, I would be really pissed off. I'm not gonna lie. I got very skinny one time. My family came over with a drug test and I took it, but it was just because I was not eating and I was dieting and I was working out. And my family thinks that's unhealthy.

[Dolores]

Right.

[Tamara Judge]

So. So to them, there was something wrong with me. And my brother and sister showed up at the house and made me take a freaking drug test.

[Dolores]

But that's a good family. They're going to have to. I think that. I think that's good. Yeah. To come up to you and say, listen, we think there's a problem. I mean, it depends on how they set it to you. But if they're like, instead of just talking behind your back, which they probably

[Tamara Judge]

did for a long time till they probably.

[Dolores]

Yeah, that's how my family. Be the fucking bitch. Look at her. She's so skinny.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. Once my mom gets involved and cries, then somebody, everybody jumps up. Because you're my mom. God, she's the saint of the family. But so, you know, I. I just. As a friend, that's really not. But here's the other thing. Are we not seeing something because we're seeing the same Meredith we've seen?

[Dolores]

That's what I'm saying. Me and Kaden actually had a conversation about it last night, a late night conversation, because I'm like, am I not seeing this? Am I not getting it? Is somebody seeing something I don't get? And I get it because I film a reality show and I know things that about certain People that the general public does not even see. It goes right over their head. And if they knew, they'd be like, oh, my God. Right. Like, no wonder you say these things. But. So all I can think of is that. That they know more or they see more or it's being cut out or. You know what I mean? It's. It's difficult. It's difficult to judge somebody as a viewer.

[Tamara Judge]

Exactly. So we can only speak on what we're seeing and what everyone else is seeing. But I have to go on. Go by, how is she being any different than she ever was? Yeah. But marrying. I'm gonna go with. Mary's very realistic. She might seem kooky sometimes, but that's

[Dolores]

why we love her.

[Tamara Judge]

But that's why we love her. And she might. But. But, you know, and coming from Mary, who's living with it and going through it with her son, I have to look at say and say what we're saying now. And.

[Dolores]

Well, she's very close to the situation, you know, with her son right now. So she can. Now. She even said, you know, I know the signs. I might not have known.

[Tamara Judge]

That's what I'm saying.

[Dolores]

I might not known him before, but I know him now. But, you know. And then Whitney calls out Lisa for being okay with calling Brittany an alcoholic, but getting upset when Whitney called Meredith one.

[Tamara Judge]

Right. Yeah. I mean, it's just crazy. And then Heather jumps in. Now Heather jumps in and tries to stick up for Brittany. Mm. But so Heather. Heather jumps in and. And tries to stick up for. For Brittany. And that's when I realized how little Mary likes her. Remember when Mary called her an inbreed, told her she looked inbred?

[Dolores]

She said that to Heather. Right. Was it Heather that she said your

[Tamara Judge]

eyes were too close together or something? And she said she smells like hospital.

[Dolores]

She seriously has truth serum just running through her veins.

[Tamara Judge]

Which she doesn't say. She really looks like that.

[Dolores]

No, I'm just saying she's that type of person.

[Tamara Judge]

That filter.

[Dolores]

Yeah. I mean, if somebody's eyes are close together, I mean, that's something that people will say. You're in, Brad.

[Tamara Judge]

So Mary gets very nasty with her. Like, Mary says stuff, and she's just saying stuff. But she said it with I. I had to read through Mary speaking to Heather. She don't like Heather. That's what I sing. She doesn't like her.

[Dolores]

Really? You think so, huh? Well, I can't wait for the reunion to see how they interact. But Heather is trying to lift Britney's spirits. By listing off all the amazing acting jobs that Britney has done and then throwing in there, she's more accomplished than a lot of us. I think what she was trying to say in the TV industry, not in life in general. I think, you know, just like, oh,

[Tamara Judge]

yeah, she was trying to give her credibility to something.

[Dolores]

Yes, she was for tv.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. I guess maybe she felt like, let me make up for not sticking up for her on the plane. Maybe I'm not letting that go. Yeah.

[Dolores]

But the girls were pissed, you know. Would have you been offended by Heather's comment?

[Tamara Judge]

Why? Because she said, well, let's give her her attributes of what she's accomplished.

[Dolores]

Well, the rest of the girls were pissed off. They're like, well, wait a minute. You know, that's really harsh to say. Who was it? Who. Who stepped up and said, was it Bronwyn that came out and was like, more accomplished than a lot of us? Like, are you serious?

[Tamara Judge]

Okay, so she used the wrong choice of words. Well, I think the choice of words,

[Dolores]

how I took it, because they were talking about our acting career. It was about tv. More accomplished in tv. That's like saying, you know, I've been. I've been on the show longer than anybody on our. Our show. I've been on Orange county longer than any one of my cast members. But if I was talking about accomplished TV stuff, I'd say, yeah, Heather's way more accomplished. She's done sitcom. She's done commercials.

[Tamara Judge]

She's done it.

[Dolores]

She's done a lot.

[Tamara Judge]

They got mad because they don't like Britney.

[Dolores]

Correct, Correct.

[Tamara Judge]

She said it about someone else. They wouldn't have read into it and picked it apart. They just wanted to knock it down because of who she said it about.

[Dolores]

Well, Britney being talented doesn't equal to being the sharpest tool in the shed.

[Tamara Judge]

She is talented, though. When me and Paul, we were walking down the. The hall at BravoCon, behind the. You know, when we walked through, behind all the stages, we heard her singing. And, you know, Paul being from Ireland is a big sink country of singers. Right. Even kids sing. People sing. You could be at a bar and people's. He's like, wow, what? Whose voice is that?

[Dolores]

She sang for us in the.

[Tamara Judge]

I don't know.

[Dolores]

I don't think you were there at that time. But at BravoCon, in the suite, the podcast suite, she sang for us. And me and Teddy both were blown away.

[Tamara Judge]

She's good.

[Dolores]

She's good. She's talented. Like, she can go places with that voice.

[Tamara Judge]

The Fredo Osmond were singing Together. And I think it was kind of nice.

[Dolores]

It's been kind of nice. We haven't heard her talk about Jared.

[Tamara Judge]

Jared.

[Dolores]

I know Jared. Now Mary, you're right. Mary calls Heather Britney's mouthpiece. She's getting annoyed with Heather.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Dolores]

Or you say she don't like Heather.

[Tamara Judge]

She don't like her. She don't like her. She really doesn't like her.

[Dolores]

Yeah. And then Heather's like, I don't like the.

[Tamara Judge]

And that comes through when she. I don't think she speaks to her too much. I don't think Mary addresses Heather often. Do you ever see them talking? Really?

[Dolores]

I don't now that you mentioned it. I really don't.

[Tamara Judge]

She stays clear from her.

[Dolores]

Yeah, you're right.

[Tamara Judge]

She's in film with her together. Really? They've had a few. But it's only to talk, hash out things.

[Dolores]

Well then Angie points out that Lisa does the same thing for Meredith. Now Heather goes, I don't like the pylons with Britney, but she sure likes the pylons with Meredith and Lisa.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, it's all. It's the world of double standard. We've said this a million times. We'll say it again.

[Dolores]

But when does defending somebody cross the line into becoming their mouthpiece? If somebody was coming after you and we're filming. Yeah, game on. I would come to your defense in two seconds.

[Tamara Judge]

I know that you would, but that's what people want to say. They say you're an ass kisser, mouthpiece.

[Dolores]

They can off

[Tamara Judge]

well. And if you don't say anything but then you're supposed to say something, then if you don't say something, you're something else. It's just always something.

[Dolores]

Well, let's get into the season finale. They've had 16 episodes. I thought they would have 17, but they had 16 episodes and three reunions.

[Tamara Judge]

And it's two great trips though, Tamara.

[Dolores]

Like they did.

[Tamara Judge]

They had really two. You know, we get the Jersey shore. Not to hash things up.

[Dolores]

Well, you're gonna move to Orange county and you're just gonna come over here

[Tamara Judge]

or you're gonna move to Jersey if we come back on.

[Dolores]

Please, I'll move to Jersey.

[Tamara Judge]

It's time to move out of your house. You've been there long enough.

[Dolores]

I know, I know. I'm scared. Bronwyn tells Mary that after they went to bed, Meredith text her to come to her room and asked her about their lunch.

[Tamara Judge]

I couldn't wait to get to this part. Think about this for a second.

[Dolores]

Yeah, go ahead. I mean, Mary thinks That Meredith is paranoid.

[Tamara Judge]

No. Someone told Meredith what was said at lunch. Yes. Who do you think?

[Dolores]

Now this whole conversation confuses me later on because Meredith is like, no, I didn't. And Bronwyn's reaction was so over the top.

[Tamara Judge]

I'm like, I think Meredith, who's the truth. Bronwyn. Bronwyn. Because somebody. No, Brian was telling the Bronwyn. Meredith wanted to know what was said at lunch because somebody told her. Maybe a little person that wears an earpiece.

[Dolores]

Well, if Ron feels that worried about Meredith, she should have told her exactly what was said.

[Tamara Judge]

Well, but she didn't. But. But guess what, Bronwyn? If Meredith didn't already know, she wouldn't have been calling you. Or somebody said to her, maybe you should ask Bronwyn off camera. But nothing's off camera when you're on a girls trip, FYI. And Bronwyn is the first one to tell people what happens off camera through the whole season, by the way. Right. And that's been on.

[Dolores]

And that's why I don't believe that this whole five months ago she saw Seth out with somebody. Because Bronwyn just says everything she sees and hears. She doesn't hold back. So I'm like, really? You waited five months to tell everybody about Seth?

[Tamara Judge]

So you don't think she saw Seth at all?

[Dolores]

I don't think so.

[Tamara Judge]

You have like, a blatant liar that I. You think she blatantly.

[Dolores]

Let me rephrase that. I think maybe she might have seen Seth. And it's very possible that he would, you know. Very, very possible. He goes to New York for business. He has a business meeting. I'll tell you right now. We owned a gym for 10 years. Every single time that Eddie would go to lunch with one of our trainers. Girl, whatever. And they go to lunch. Our manager of the gym was a girl. They would go to lunch, do talk business. I would get a dm. I see your husband out with a

[Tamara Judge]

girl, I never get that lucky.

[Dolores]

I see her husband out with a girl. I've never gotten that lucky when she's our trainer.

[Tamara Judge]

But wait, but here's the thing. We. Why wouldn't Seth come home and say, hey, Meredith, I ran into Bronwyn and Todd.

[Dolores]

Exactly. Well, I think that we're going to find out more at the reunion. I'm assuming the guys are going to go.

[Tamara Judge]

If they don't get to the bottom of this, then production's not doing their job.

[Dolores]

Sorry we never got to the bottom of the black eye. Well, I feel like we don't get to the bottom. I know, I know, I know.

[Tamara Judge]

So you will see in New Jersey you're not allowed,

[Dolores]

right? I don't know.

[Tamara Judge]

Things don't like get let go here. Really?

[Dolores]

Yeah.

[Jill Winterstein]

Hi, this is Joe Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast where we talk about astrology and natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver.

[Dolores]

The Irish traveler said when I was 16. You're going to have a terrible time with men.

[Jill Winterstein]

Actor, storyteller and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives and I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are Misunderstood a Sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house Spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

[Dolores]

He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all.

[Jill Winterstein]

If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity and real life, this episode is a must. Listen Listen to Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your podcast.

[Amanda Knox]

What if mind control is real?

[Dolores]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[Amanda Knox]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[Dolores]

When you look at your car, you're

[Ben Higgins]

gonna become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

[Amanda Knox]

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

[Special Agent Riegel]

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

[Amanda Knox]

Can you get someone to join your cult?

[Jill Winterstein]

NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.

[Amanda Knox]

Nlp, AKA Neuro linguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

[Tamara Judge]

It's about engineering consciousness.

[Amanda Knox]

Mind Games is the story of nlp, its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, nlp, might actually work.

[Tamara Judge]

This is wild.

[Amanda Knox]

Listen to mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Higgins]

What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me is where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation. Each episode I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers and everyday folks. And we go deeper than the polished story we talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore. Loss that changes your you purpose when success isn't enough Peace when your mind won't slow down. Faith when it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if you can hear me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Special Agent Riegel]

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.

[Tamara Judge]

This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[Narrator (Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

This MSS officer has no idea the US Government is onto him, but the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast?

[Special Agent Riegel]

I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer. No doubt, no question of his life. And that's a unicorn.

[Ben Higgins]

No one had ever seen anything like that.

[Dolores]

It was unbelievable.

[Special Agent Riegel]

This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

[Narrator (Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amanda Knox]

In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief.

[Dolores]

The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.

[Amanda Knox]

Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict. A villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby.

[Dolores]

Lucy Letby has been found guilty.

[Amanda Knox]

But what if we didn't get the whole story?

[Tamara Judge]

The moment you look at the whole

[Dolores]

picture, the case collapses.

[Amanda Knox]

I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast the Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was.

[Jill Winterstein]

No voicing of any skepticism or doubt.

[Dolores]

It'll cause so much harm at every

[Special Agent Riegel]

single level of the British establishment of this is wrong.

[Amanda Knox]

Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dolores]

Okay, then we go on to Heather asks Bronwyn what's wrong. In the car, Bronwin tells her the girls. Bronwyn tells the girls about her conversation with Meredith. She gets upset and tells Meredith that she was gaslighting her.

[Tamara Judge]

Wait a second. Merit like Bronwyn's out Of control. Mad. Like she's so. I mean, I don't know what I. I mean, you know who's not mad?

[Dolores]

Meredith. She's like, no, that's not what happened. No. And they very well could have had a conversation. And they very well could have said, like, yeah, at lunch, this happened. It doesn't necessari really mean that Mar is like, so tell me. Tell me. I need to know. I need to know.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, well, I would need to know if my husband was out with somebody else. Else.

[Dolores]

Yeah. Schematics. Schematics. How do you say that word?

[Tamara Judge]

Semantics.

[Dolores]

Semantics. That's it. Semantics. I think that that's what this is. I think that they did have a conversation, but it wasn't necessarily her begging for information. I don't know. It's another thing that we don't know. So why are we talking?

[Tamara Judge]

She was begging for Meredith called her into the room. 1:30am Come downstairs or come into my room. Can we talk? What was said at lunchtime? Because Meredith was told. Maybe not what was said, but you need to get to the bottom of what was said at that lunch. I'm telling you.

[Dolores]

Do you kind of feel like Robin so badly wants to be with the cool girls that she's willing to start the pylon with Meredith again?

[Tamara Judge]

Well, until the end, I didn't realize that Bronwyn, she was accusing Meredith of doing the same thing she's been doing the whole time. Like she's being a hypocrite. And the end, after the play, Bronwyn said, I've been accusing people of not being loyal to me when I haven't been loyal to them. She's the only one. Unless she's a great actress and should be in the Greek play.

[Dolores]

What did you think about that play?

[Tamara Judge]

I couldn't stop what I was like, glued to the tv.

[Dolores]

It was very different. And then it got a little drawn out, a little long, right?

[Tamara Judge]

No, I loved it all.

[Dolores]

You loved it? Yeah. I mean, it was very different. Something we haven't really seen.

[Tamara Judge]

I think it was deep. I loved it. It was something we haven't seen. First of all, I want to go to Greece so bad. Let's go.

[Dolores]

Oh, I love it there.

[Tamara Judge]

And I think they had an amazing trip. It was super, super entertaining to me. The stuff that went on, the fights that they had. I think it was just great from beginning to end. Also, because I love the beach. I love the water, I love the blue. I love Greece, all that stuff. So I was just super interested. Let's go. You Know, Paul should take me and that long dress picture that everybody takes.

[Dolores]

Yes. So what? So they just have like somebody that brings you dresses and you do these. Is there one.

[Tamara Judge]

And done it. A lot of people have done it in Bali.

[Dolores]

They wear the dresses and they go on the swing. And Greece, they do like in the white area up the stairs.

[Tamara Judge]

It's so cool.

[Dolores]

Yeah, it is very cool.

[Tamara Judge]

It's so cool. But. But, you know, until the end of the play, everybody was just sitting there. Some people were affected, some people weren't. But Bronwyn, it was like cathartic for her.

[Dolores]

Well, she's like, how can you not get emotional? Here I am. That's what I'm saying. And she's like, the rest of you are just like, whatever.

[Tamara Judge]

She's so well spoken.

[Dolores]

She is.

[Tamara Judge]

Speaks better than Meredith. She speaks better than everybody. Oh, she's.

[Dolores]

Yeah, the best.

[Tamara Judge]

I mean, Heather's super intelligent. Super, you know, emotionally intelligent, which is. Doesn't always go hand in hand. They say. They say, I've read the book. But she's like, I'll listen to her. And I like the way she. I'll probably never be able to speak like that, but that is impressive to me. And the way she. I agree, broke it down and spoke of herself. And she's like, I don't know how any of you aren't feeling the way that I do right now, but not only do I feel like I need to work on myself and. And I feel like I've been disloyal to people and that's what I've gotten back. But how could you not feel something from this? And not only that, I now realize what I'm thought about in this group. Like, seriously, like, aren't you take. And. And you know what Mary said? Mary was like, basically you for saying that about me. Fuck you, Heather.

[Dolores]

Well, after that, then Lisa came out. She was sad by how she was portrayed when talking about hiding behind her things. Meredith breaks down. Yeah, Meredith broke down, which is great. I think the girls needed to see that finally. They've been asking for Meredith to be a little bit more open and. But as soon as she does, they cut her off and start pounding.

[Tamara Judge]

Heather did. Heather did. Heather went right out, right out in honor. She was getting to open up. They were getting somewhere. That would have been a great arc.

[Dolores]

Yes.

[Tamara Judge]

That would have been a great reconciliation to move forward for next season.

[Dolores]

I don't understand. At that point, Heather was slurring. Heather was. Seemed a little intoxicated. No shade. It's what we do on these trips, we drink. But she. It's. She was tanked. She was tanked.

[Tamara Judge]

Okay. So I don't understand. Wasn't her.

[Dolores]

She didn't seem like it. Well, I don't understand why nobody in the cast throws the black eye out ever. Oh, I would have shut any conversation down. I would have.

[Tamara Judge]

I do. But I don't want to fight with Heather because I happen to like her, and I think she looks.

[Dolores]

I don't want to fight with anybody, but it's just. It's a conversation to be had.

[Tamara Judge]

But that's what happened. And, you know, the girls were really starting to get Meredith to open up in that point. Like, Angie was holding her hand. Lisa was there. Let me tell you, Lisa Barlow is a ride or die for Meredith. She's a good friend.

[Dolores]

That made me very happy to see Lisa follow Meredith and to be by her side. And I think that you can also see in Angie's eyes, like, she wanted to go over there, too. Like, I just. I don't know.

[Tamara Judge]

But then Heather calls them out for them against the world. Like, go ahead. Run. Run. Come back. So Lisa's like, why should she come back? You just dissed her marriage. You just accused her of all these things. Why should she sit there? She was getting to open up, and you guys just attacked her. Mary didn't. Mary spoke to her the way a friend should speak to her. She finally came out and said, meredith, we think you have a problem. And then there's.

[Dolores]

We're worried. Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

It shouldn't come from Whitney. Whitney, go sit down. Go sit down.

[Dolores]

A hundred percent. That's where I got annoyed. I got annoyed with Heather. Go and get out of here. Just go. Whatever she was saying. And then, you know, Mary was talking to Meredith in a concern. We're worried she's spiraling. Meredith says she's fine and her time is done here. I don't know if she's talking about the trip or her time with these girls. I don't want to be around them anymore. And then what does Bronwyn do? What does she do? She goes and tells Meredith about seeing Seth in New York with. But she doesn't really say another woman. She saw him at dinner. She saw him at dinner. And I'm like, okay. And everybody's like, are you insinu. Like, tell the rest of the story. She never once said he was with a woman, did she? Only to the girls.

[Tamara Judge]

So, you know, Bronwyn now brings up Seth. Brought up Seth at the lunch. Him being with another Woman at dinner and seemed weird. It didn't seem like an investor. And then. But Bronwyn, again, being a hypocrite, was the one that said on the boat that husbands should be left out of it when they're talking about Todd. Yeah. So Ron plays dirty sometimes. I like her, you know, I just said the most beautiful things about her. I wouldn't trust her.

[Dolores]

Well, she can't keep a secret for five seconds. I don't know.

[Tamara Judge]

She kept this one for six months. Saving it for the finale.

[Dolores]

I don't know that I.

[Tamara Judge]

Maybe even it for the finale.

[Dolores]

Saving it for the trip.

[Tamara Judge]

You got to save the good things for the good times.

[Dolores]

That's true. That's true, too. I didn't think about that.

[Tamara Judge]

But she's. She's a businesswoman.

[Dolores]

Maybe. I just feel so bad for Meredith right now with the gang up that I just can't believe anything. I don't want to believe anything because I just feel bad for you.

[Tamara Judge]

I'm not saying it's not true. I'm not saying there was any malice in it. Could be a perfectly innocent thing. I think that the reason it hasn't been said before was because it was being saved. I think that Bronwyn plays the good housewife. And, you know, when I. When I had, like, felt a certain kind of way about Bronwyn, when Britney was changing in the dressing room and she was telling Bronwyn things, I was on camera. But she went and repeated what she said. And many times Bronwyn repeats what people say. I feel like off camera, too.

[Dolores]

Yeah. I mean, that's the nature of the show pretty much.

[Tamara Judge]

Angie did it to Lisa this year with Meredith. Angie did it. She's like, well, when me and you were fighting, Lisa told me about people in your family.

[Dolores]

Well, other than the plane ride, which we still don't have any evidence come

[Tamara Judge]

out at the reunion.

[Dolores]

When has Meredith acted out of normal? When has she's been spiraling? When has she acted totally wasted? She's the same Meredith. Like we said earlier, she's the same Meredith we've seen for the past six seasons.

[Tamara Judge]

When I first met her, I asked someone very close to her the same question. Does she do pills? It's just the way she speaks. And that was it. I left it there and that was it.

[Dolores]

Maybe that's just the way she speaks.

[Tamara Judge]

I've been to all of her parties. I've been to her first premiere. I have been to her caviar tastings. I have been. I show up for Meredith and she's always lovely. Always speaks the same way. A person who has a problem is banged up. I feel like at these events that I've seen her at, and she's just the same. So I don't know. I think. I think she could be moody. Maybe it's a chemical thing internally. I don't know. What. How old she is. Maybe she's going through menopause. Maybe she's in the thick of it.

[Dolores]

Not the menopause.

[Tamara Judge]

We could blame it on the menopause. Why does it have to be a substance? Can it just be menopause?

[Dolores]

Can it just be. That's her voice, and that's how she talks.

[Tamara Judge]

But they say, you know, she. She gets worked up and. But they also work her up.

[Dolores]

Is that her personality? Maybe. I don't know.

[Tamara Judge]

But they also bust her balls. They get her to that point.

[Dolores]

I know.

[Tamara Judge]

See, Lisa just handles things differently. They pounced on Lisa a million times this season. From the beginning. She didn't get crazy like that. She cries sometimes. She's just sitting there not bothering anybody. Like on the boat, on Captain Jason's boat when they were sitting there. I remember she was sitting there not bothering anybody. And they started with her.

[Dolores]

I love the fact that Meredith will sit there and just not say a word. And you see her drinking or sipping or eating, and you hear people talking, and then she doesn't really say anything. And then she'll just chime in, like, just one sentence with her nasally voice. And it's just her words are always so elongated.

[Tamara Judge]

Yes. Direct your husband.

[Dolores]

But overall, it was a great season. Salt Lake City has been on top

[Tamara Judge]

since they started finale. Thank you to all of you girls. We love you all.

[Dolores]

Yeah, I mean, I don't feel like there was a lot of. And this happens. There wasn't a lot of drama this season. There wasn't a lot of. I mean, if it wasn't for that damn plane, what would.

[Tamara Judge]

It was a lot of bickering.

[Dolores]

It was the plane, and then it was the damn. Meredith has substance abuse. And that was it. That was really it. So there wasn't a whole lot cheating

[Tamara Judge]

and farting and making out.

[Dolores]

Yeah, but. Okay, so that's it. So that's a wrap, and we will be recapping the reunion. I'm very excited. I hope we get some answers. I'm wondering if Andy's the only one that walks off stage or do we.

[Tamara Judge]

Is Whitney too?

[Dolores]

Whitney?

[Tamara Judge]

No comment. Okay.

[Dolores]

Thank you, guys.

[Tamara Judge]

Thank you.

[Ben Higgins]

Everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now T mobile is in US cellular stores.

[Special Agent Riegel]

Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the

[Tamara Judge]

cost of optional benefits plan features in

[Ben Higgins]

Texas and fees vary.

[Special Agent Riegel]

Savings with three plus lines include third

[Ben Higgins]

line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you cancel any lines.

[Dolores]

Qualifying credit required.

[Special Agent Riegel]

This is Special Agent Regal Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.

[Narrator (Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

[Special Agent Riegel]

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jill Winterstein]

Hi, it's Jill Interestein, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast where we talk about astrology, natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend Krista Williams. It can change you in the best way possible.

[Dolores]

Dance with the change, Dance with the breakdowns.

[Jill Winterstein]

The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves just so.

[Dolores]

I'm like delusionally proud of my chart.

[Jill Winterstein]

Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your podcast.

[Nancy Glass]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.

[Narrator (Sixth Bureau Podcast)]

I was a monster.

[Nancy Glass]

Listen to Burden of guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts on the

[Tamara Judge]

Adventures of Curiosity Cove podcast. When Peanut Butter disappears from school, Ella, Scout and Layla launch a full detective mission. Their search leads them back in time to meet a brilliant inventor whose curiosity changed the world in this Black History Month adventure.

[Amanda Knox]

Asking questions, thinking creatively can lead to amazing discoveries.

[Tamara Judge]

Listen to Adventures of a Curiosity Cove every Monday from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.