The Grand Dame Returns (RHOP Recap)

Summary

Two Ts In A Pod: "The Grand Dame Returns" (RHOP Recap)

Podcast: Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge
Episode Date: February 3, 2026
Hosts: Teddi Mellencamp, Tamra Judge
Main Focus: RHOP Season Finale & Karen's Post-Prison Sit-Down with Andy Cohen

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Teddi and Tamra break down the buzzworthy post-finale sit-down between Andy Cohen and Karen Huger from The Real Housewives of Potomac (RHOP). The discussion centers around Karen’s recent prison stint, her on-camera interview, family dynamics, addiction issues, and the fallout among the cast—particularly her tension with Wendy. The hosts also touch on RHONY OGs jumping networks and the wider implications for the Housewives franchise. This is a candid, in-depth chat full of both shade and compassion, giving listeners both the tea and some heartfelt perspective.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Catching Up & Housewives News

[02:40 – 08:04]

• Hosts’ Personal Catch-Up: Teddi and Tamra share updates about life post-partying and new supplement/diet trends, with jokes about weight gain and “GLP1” meds like retatrutide.
  • “I’m not happy, Tamara; I’m not happy.” — Teddi [03:02]
• RHONY OGs Head to E!: Shock and speculation over Luann, Sonja, Jill, Kelly, and Ramona signing with E!, and what this means for cross-network Housewife careers.
  • "That's like a huge move... we don't really cross over to other networks because then how do you come back, right?" — Teddi [05:39]
• Missing Old New York: The hosts lament that “New New York made us miss old New York a lot.” [07:55]

Reality TV Review Bombing & Fan Craziness

[08:30 – 10:09]

• The hosts discuss the backlash to Angel’s Colorado trip (RHOC) and fan review-bombing of cast businesses.
  • “You don’t go after somebody’s business… it pisses me off as somebody that’s had businesses.” — Tamra [09:38]
• They agree the trip was “poorly executed”—especially for a new, unaccepted Housewife hosting the finale.

RHOP Special: Andy Cohen’s Sit-Down with Karen

[10:17 – 54:08]

The Setup & Family Dynamics

[10:17 – 12:34]

• Karen’s Son on Camera: Karen’s son appears; both hosts are surprised as he’s avoided filming. Teddi notes how many Housewives’ kids avoid the spotlight out of career concerns. [11:04]
  • “They just didn’t sign up for this. We did.” — Teddi [11:10]

Was the Sit-Down Necessary?

[16:19 – 17:24]

• Both hosts agree the special was needed despite a lackluster regular finale.
  • “This had to be done because she’s going to be able to talk about it at the reunion.” — Teddi [17:13]

Karen’s Prison Experience

[17:30 – 20:31]

• Karen’s Isolation: Karen says she was kept from general population but requested to be around others—to learn her lesson (Teddi commends this [17:46], Tamra questions).
• Helping Others in Jail: Karen claims she started “helping young women.” Tamra thinks it sounded performative; Teddi finds it understandable as a way to heal. [18:24]

The DUI, Accountability & Rumors

[20:31 – 23:32]

• Discussion about plea deals, accountability, and the infamous “man in the car” rumor.
  • “She also admitted that she was Thomas Jefferson’s concubine. How are we going to go off what…she’s delusional.” — Teddi [23:05]
• Hosts critique how stories spiral in the blogosphere but agree this rumor had little ground.

Admitting Addiction: Denial & Semantics

[24:16 – 42:31]

• Karen’s Language: She avoids words like “alcoholic,” calling it “the drink,” and leans more on prescription drug abuse.
  • “She’s using her words very carefully…” — Tamra [24:39]
• Andy’s Interrogation: Andy pushes her to label her addiction; Karen wavers, prefers terms like “lifetime recovery.” [42:10]
• Special Guest Input: Tamra’s partner Paul weighs in, explaining distinctions between “drunk” and “alcoholic,” agreeing that Karen is likely in denial. [30:02 – 31:52]
  • "She's denying that she's in denial herself about what's going on." — Paul [31:45]
• Both hosts and Paul agree admitting alcoholism is the first recovery step.

Trauma & Mental Health

[27:26 – 28:33, 39:47 – 40:03]

• Karen opens up about being sexually assaulted at 19 and how trauma and feeling “emotionally shut down” factored into her addiction.
  • “So brave to talk about that.” — Teddi [39:57]

Family Enabling & Relationship Dynamics

[25:53 – 27:26]

• Teddi speculates Ray enabled Karen’s drinking out of fear she’d leave him if sober. The hosts discuss the complicated bonds in long marriages affected by addiction.

Karen’s Rawness—or Lack Thereof

[37:33 – 39:19]

• Tamra wishes for a more vulnerable, less “word salad” approach from Karen, echoing fan critiques on Instagram.

Substance Details & Prison Routine

[35:26 – 45:27]

• Karen claims she can’t name her abused prescriptions out of fear of being sued—hosts are deeply skeptical.
  • “If I’m addicted to Xanax or opioids… the only person to blame is me.” — Tamra [36:31]
• On prison life: Karen talks about using maxi pads to make toilets more comfortable and wearing black lace panties. Teddi, drawing on her background, debunks much of this. [43:43 – 44:41]
  • “Sorry, Karen. I don’t know what jail… but I don’t think that’s how it went.” — Teddi [44:41]

Reunion Anticipation & Karen vs. Wendy

[45:27 – 53:48]

• Both are eager to see Karen confront Wendy and get clarity on their beef.
• Tamra highlights Karen’s boldness in telling Wendy: “Shut the eff up.” [45:39]

Lessons & Lasting Impressions

[47:00 – 54:08]

• They discuss whether the show “saved” Karen, and how seeing herself from the outside may force change.
• Debate on whether Karen has really changed or just adapted for TV.
• Support for Karen’s recovery journey, hoping she goes forward as an inspiration—but with the caveat that she needs more time and therapy before helping others.
  • “I wish her well… all the luck and love and absolutely all the success in her recovery.” — Teddi [54:00]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I wanted to see a little bit more rawness…maybe it’s just her personality.” — Tamra [19:22]
• “She never made the change by seeing herself on tv because she’s never showing up drunk.” — Teddi [47:09]
• “Sometimes it takes…I guess it could take time.” — Teddi [38:58]
• “Well, I find it hard to believe that Ray didn’t know anything.” — Tamra [22:29]
• “I think Andy is asking all the right questions, but often he looked confused and lost with her answers.” — Tamra [28:33]
• “That’s the Karen that I missed right there.” — Tamra, on Karen telling Wendy off [45:42]
• "Maybe she just needs time to physically say it, verbalize it." — Teddi [49:50]
• “She still plays semantics…some accountability but being wishy-washy.” — Instagram feedback read by Tamra [50:56]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:40] Show begins, catch-up & NYC OGs/E! move
• [08:30] Fan review bombing/Angel’s Colorado trip
• [10:17] Start of RHOP finale & Andy/Karen segment
• [11:04] On kids avoiding Housewives cameras
• [16:19] Debate: Was the Karen/Andy sit-down necessary?
• [17:46] Karen’s prison experience & not wanting special treatment
• [18:24] Karen “helping” others in prison—hosts debate sincerity
• [23:05] Addressing rumors and the “man in the car” story
• [24:16] Addiction denial/language (“the drink”)
• [30:02 – 31:52] Paul explains alcoholic vs. drunk
• [39:47] Karen’s admission of 19-year-old sexual assault
• [43:43] Maxi pads on prison toilets & reality of jail routine
• [45:39] Karen tells Wendy to “shut the eff up”
• [47:00] Discussion on the show “saving” Karen
• [54:00] Closing thoughts—wishes for Karen’s recovery

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Final Thoughts

The episode offered a deep, sometimes emotional, sometimes critical look at Karen Huger’s post-prison journey and the RHOP finale, with Tamra and Teddi balancing sympathy with their desire for more transparency. The hosts expect Karen to return for Season 11 and are eager for more revelations in the upcoming reunion episodes. Both ultimately commend Karen’s courage for speaking out (however cautiously) and hope she continues her road to healing.

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For fans of Housewives recaps, inside scoop, and honest, empathetic analysis—this is a must-listen episode.

Transcript

[Teddi Mellencamp]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

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[Tamara Judge]

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[Special Agent Riegel]

This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[Narrator/Reporter]

In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.

[Podcast Narrator]

The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jill Winterstein]

Hi, it's Jill Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And today I'm talking with my dear friend Christa Williams. It can change you in the best way possible.

[Tamara Judge]

Dance with the change, Dance with the breakdowns.

[Jill Winterstein]

The embodiment of Pisces intuition with Capricorn power moves.

[Tamara Judge]

Just so. I'm like delusionally proud of my chart.

[Jill Winterstein]

Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your podcast.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Two T's in a Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamara Judge.

[Tamara Judge]

Welcome back to another episode of Two T's and a Pod with myself and Dolores. Good morning, Dolores. Good morning.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

How are you?

[Tamara Judge]

I'm good. You recovered from the party?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Not recovered from the party. The two parties I'm dead. I'm up £4. And I don't know why, because I haven't. I didn't really eat.

[Tamara Judge]

Oh, really? It's probably just water.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I'm not happy, Tamara. I'm not happy.

[Tamara Judge]

I'm never happy if I step on the scale and it's up £1.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

All right, I'm exaggerating. I'm up £3.

[Tamara Judge]

Three whole pounds.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

And I feel it. And I just feel, like, shitty and puffy. So I am probably gonna try the new GLP1. Re. Attitude. Reattitude or reattitude?

[Tamara Judge]

Now you got me screwed up.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Whatever, girl. How do you know that?

[Tamara Judge]

Because it's all. It's all over social media. They're talking about. What did they say, Red? A true tide. I don't know. One person will say it's great for you. It's not just GLP1. It's three different things. I don't know what they are. Some say it's like, helps you look youthful and helps with your metabolism and your sugar levels. And another one says it's horrible. It's horrible for your thyroid. I mean, it's you.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Well, I have a thyroid issue. And then there's the other thing that says. So the difference is with the other GLP ones, the tirzepatite, the Oz, epic, whatever else, you lose muscle mass. This is supposed to make you lose weight without losing the muscle mass.

[Tamara Judge]

So that's a positive.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

It's a total positive. So I don't know. But we told Kristen we were going to bring her on to clear up the nonsense about this.

[Tamara Judge]

Have you talked to her about the reticrutide? Because it's. I mean, it's crazy to even say this because a lot of things are not FDA approved, but it's not FDA approved. And that's what people are saying.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

But I haven't spoke to her.

[Tamara Judge]

Most supplements, most stuff is not FDA approved.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I'm looking at 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 supplements sitting next to me. Nine, that Paul, that Kristin has Paul on right now. The vitamins and things like that. And he is. He wants to be £190 by in the next eight weeks. So let's see. So that means I got to get on my game because, you know when your man starts doing all this, like, you don't want to look like.

[Tamara Judge]

I know. Trust me, I know.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Because then I'll just be pissed off.

[Tamara Judge]

Being married to Eddie, it's like, just gain weight. Just gain some weight. We have a couple of headlines now. This One was pretty shocking. Queens of Bravo announced it. Breaking news according to Page or maybe Page six announcement. Luann De La Sonja Morgan, Jill Zarin, Kelly Bensimon and Ramona Singer have signed a deal with E. And expect a new show by the end of the year.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Wow, that's like a huge move. That's like monumental because we don't really cross over to other networks because then how do you come back? Right. Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

He is no longer.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

But you know what? These OGs have been off the air for a long time.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah. What are they supposed to do for

[Tamara Judge]

them to come back if they got the opportunity, I definitely would take it for sure. I'm sure there was conversations had, like, people call Nandy. Hey, I got this offer, like, just letting you know, like, that's what I would do first.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Right of refusal. So.

[Tamara Judge]

Right.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

You know, it was funny because Bethany was talking about. Of course.

[Tamara Judge]

Of course she was.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

So she was saying that she's like, you know, Ramona is going to be coming out like a hibernated bear. And she credits Jill Zarin to putting this together, being the business sense of, I guess.

[Tamara Judge]

Well, Jill Sarin makes shit happen. That is for sure. She really does. She makes happen. And she's got a lot of connections. So I wonder what.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

How Sonia, she's so pretty.

[Tamara Judge]

Is this going to be a housewife like show? I did hear, I don't know if it's true, that it's going to be based out of Florida. A lot of them have houses in Florida. So it wouldn't be like New York Housewives. It wouldn't be that similar. But I'm assuming it's going to be right. Like the housewife model. Right.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

You can't take. I mean, they need Dorinda, but, well, Dorinda's not in this. I would think maybe Dorinda would come back when this show comes back. They need Dorinda here, trust me.

[Tamara Judge]

But also Dorinda is. She works for Radio Andy. So I don't know if it's maybe a conflict of interest or wasn't allowed to. I don't know.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Well, I can tell you this. It is. These girls are so missed because clearly new New York did not fill the toe right of old New York. Sorry, guys, if you don't like what I said. I do not apologize for saying this. You know, you only miss it when you break up with someone. Like, you know, you miss the old boyfriend because maybe the new boyfriend doesn't cut it. You know what I'm saying?

[Tamara Judge]

Right, right, right. Right.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

It's just an analogy, but so, yeah, yeah. New New York made us miss old New York a lot.

[Tamara Judge]

I'm gonna have to call Dorinda and ask her if she's got any information on this, because I want to know more.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

You do. You're very invested. I'm like, whatever.

[Tamara Judge]

I just. This is the first time anything like this has happened where a cast has gone to another network.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Right.

[Tamara Judge]

Which opens doors, I would imagine, for other housewives that have been let go.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

This is case law.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. So Chadwick on X posted this. And this is about bad reviews. After Angel's Colorado trip, it's gotten a little bit out of control. We talked about it a little bit, but he says reality TV is supposed to be fun, not a digital firing squad. Housewife fans review. Bombing.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Review.

[Tamara Judge]

Bombing. Wonderland Outdoors over Angels Colorado trip. It's unhinged behavior. Every single one of these miserable people need to touch grass. And there's like some, you know, just reviews from people. Emma McGrath. Host. That doesn't host like, really that. You've never been to this location or through this experience, and you're going to write something like that after what you saw on reality tv? Get a life, Emma.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

What's. What's this one, though? Cult. I can't. I. It's too small. I.

[Tamara Judge]

Well, I can't pronounce it.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Cole.

[Tamara Judge]

Kenneth. Sanctuary, I think.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Okay, whatever. Yeah, I got lost trying to find the activities. Took me days to get back to civilization. What does that even mean? Were you lost for days?

[Tamara Judge]

You don't go after somebody's business. What? It takes time, energy, money to put together a business, and you've never been there and you're going to make it. Just. It just pisses me off as somebody that's had. I think the mistake was businesses.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

It was poorly executed. Sorry. It was. And given the nature of her being a new housewife who no one really was accepting anyway, it was a bad choice to host the finale.

[Tamara Judge]

I agree with that. I agree. Well, we're going to get into the. The actual season finale, which is a sit down. Andy Cohen and Karen got about that.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I didn't forget about this. I forgot that wasn't the season finale. This was.

[Tamara Judge]

Right, Right, Exactly. So Andy sits down with Karen. She comes. He knocks on the door. Her son is there. I don't know that I've ever seen the son before. Have you. Has he ever filmed before? Does anybody know?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I don't remember seeing him.

[Tamara Judge]

Okay.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

No, he's a lovely guy.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Seems very nice. Very soft. Spoken like his dad.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. And he said that, you know, he expressed how difficult it was to see his mom in prison. And he said like, where have you been? Why are you hiding from the cameras? And he's like, I'm a busy guy. He's like, it's like my son. Like, I can bribe him with a million dollars. He's like, mom, I'm good. I'm good.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Frankie gets always scared to be on camera. Like his job. He loves his job so much that he never wants it to go into his job. Yeah. And I get that. You know, they work really hard to get to where they are and they just, they didn't sign up for this. We did.

[Tamara Judge]

Exactly. And sometimes the backlash is so bad that, you know, if you're not on it full time and you're not reaping the rewards of the money that's coming to you, it's not worth it.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah.

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[Jill Winterstein]

Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast where we talk about astrology, natal charts, and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver.

[Mini Driver]

The Irish traveler said when I was 16. You're going to have a terrible time

[Jill Winterstein]

with men, actor, storyteller and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives and I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are Misunderstood A Sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

[Mini Driver]

He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all.

[Jill Winterstein]

If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creatures, creativity and real life, this episode is a must Listen Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcast.

[Mind Games Narrator]

What if mind control is real?

[Special Agent Riegel]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[Mind Games Narrator]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[Ben Higgins]

When you look at your car, you're gonna become overwhelmed with such a good feelings.

[Mind Games Narrator]

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

[Tamara Judge]

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

[Mind Games Narrator]

Can you get someone to join your cult?

[Jill Winterstein]

NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.

[Mind Games Narrator]

Nlp, AKA Neuro Linguistic Programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

[Tamara Judge]

It's about engineering consciousness.

[Mind Games Narrator]

Mind Games is the story of nlp, its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, nlp, might actually work.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

This is wild.

[Mind Games Narrator]

Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Higgins]

What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me is where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation. Each episode I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers and everyday folks, and we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity when you don't recognize yourself anymore. Loss that changes you Purpose when success isn't enough. Peace when your mind won't slow down. Faith when it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if youf Can Hear me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tamara Judge]

Okay. So Andy's at the house. He's talking with her children. Karen looks great. She looks good. Glad she got released. And I really want to dive into this because I have mixed feelings about how she came off and I know that you're going to have a lot of opinions. So, first of all, do you think this sit down was necessary or should have? They saved it for the reunion?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

No, I think it was necessary. Yeah. And I think there was space for it after the finale. The other finale, the pre finale. There was space for this.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. Considering their finale wasn't the best finale they've ever had, I think this was a good addition to it. I hope that we're going to get a little bit more clarity at the reunion. And I feel like maybe if she did do this at the reunion, it would have taken up so much time.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah. No, this had to be done. This had to be done because then there's going to be just like we're talking. There's going to be. She's going to be able to talk about it at the reunion.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Right. So they. Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

So Karen.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

It's relevant now. That's what I'm saying.

[Tamara Judge]

Karen had said a few things that are just kind of confusing to me, and one of them was is they kept her away from the general population and she asked to be around others because she need to learn her lesson. What are your thoughts on that?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I commend that she did not want special treatment.

[Tamara Judge]

You've worked a prison, right?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah. Why? I worked in a holding cell and I transported prisoners.

[Tamara Judge]

Okay. I was just wondering, why would they keep her from the general population?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Why would they? Well, I think it's the preference of the jail because she's coming on as somebody who people may have mixed feelings about because of her role on tv. It's only because the only reason it takes somebody at a general population is to protect them from something that could be harmful.

[Tamara Judge]

She went on to say, and I quote, I started doing what I do, helping young women. But so she. She went on to kind of explain how she's out there helping other people, hyping herself up, in my opinion. I didn't think that was necessary. I feel like that's something she can be doing on next season. You know, the Chrisleys are doing kind of the same thing. When they got out, they're talking about how they want to help people that are in jail and all.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

They did say that. Yeah. They did say when they got out that's something that they wanted to do. They felt the need. I see. That's. I understand Karen wanting to. To be like a mentor for younger people and talk about the mistakes she made in her life because she's older. I think that was really. And sometimes I think you heal by helping other people.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

You don't agree with that?

[Tamara Judge]

I don't know. I just. I wanted to see a little bit more rawness. I wanted to see her. I don't know. I felt like there was a lot of. I don't want to say performative, a lot of things said, because I felt like it needed. She felt like it needed to be said. I. I don't know. Maybe it's just her personality.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I think it's her personality.

[Tamara Judge]

Maybe.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

To be honest, I. I really think it's her personality. But anyway, go ahead. Go ahead.

[Tamara Judge]

And by the way, interesting that she wore beige. What she called it was blush. It was beige. And that's what she wore in prison. Like, I would never wear beige again. It kind of reminded me of when Teresa went on watch what Happens Live and wore an orange jumpsuit.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

She did not mean to.

[Tamara Judge]

I know.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

By her glam.

[Tamara Judge]

I'm like, it was kind of given that type of energy.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah. No, a lot of people that do come out never want to wear that color again. And I've seen that, and I've heard that. And then here you have the two housewives. The first thing they put on. Oh, my God.

[Tamara Judge]

Karen wanted to address the film that broke the Internet.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah, I want to, too, because. And it's. I don't want to say it was the most entertaining thing I've ever seen, but I did watch it more than once.

[Tamara Judge]

Right. I mean, if you were Karen, would you have watched the tape? She's claiming she didn't watch it until her therapist and rehab made her.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

What? No, I wouldn't have watched it until I was made to. I would not. No. I don't even want to rewatch the podcast after I see my face.

[Tamara Judge]

I mean, I agree. I hate watching myself, but when it comes to them. And this is another thing that I'm really confused about. Like, there was talk about a plea bargain. Right.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

It was false.

[Tamara Judge]

But then she said it. She said, like, they were going to give her a plea deal, you know, and then Andy goes, oh, you know, you would have gotten house arrest. And she said, no, that's not true. So what would have her plea deal been? I mean, she was in jail for only six months. Like, what would it have been, two months?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I don't know. But after four incidents, two being DUIs, I don't think it was. Who wouldn't take home arrest over anything? I'd be like, even if I was innocent, I'd be like, yeah, I did it. I did it. Give me home arrest. I'll take it.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. It was just really kind of confusing to me.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

And you don't really. Many times I'd be outside the courthouse and I would hear them say, if you don't plead guilty. And they'd be like, but I'm innocent. If you don't plead guilty, you're going to go to trial and you're probably going to lose.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

So just plead guilty and get it over with. And most people do, but some don't. Some with bigger egos think they're going

[Tamara Judge]

to get away with it.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Did not. And you know, I remember one case in particular. They could have gotten six months. Instead they got like seven years. Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

Well, she said when she did watch it, she realized that she deserved the sentence that was coming to her. So she did take accountability on that. Definitely. I find it hard to believe that Ray didn't know anything. Like, he was there with her when she got the. When she. Was she in an accident? Is that what happened? Or she just pulled over. I can't remember.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

She had a tree.

[Tamara Judge]

She had a tree. Okay. That's right. She called him and he was there. And then the other confusing part was where she admits that. Didn't she admit that somebody was in the car with her at the time of.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

She also admitted that she was Thomas Jefferson's concubine. How are we going to go off? What saying she's delusional. She has no idea what she's saying. She. That what she said to him was, he ran. The guy ran that you hired. And then the man. And then her husband goes, was he here? There's no. Nobody Was there? No one.

[Tamara Judge]

Well, the only reason I even bring it up is because Ashley. Was it Ashley or Giselle or somebody said that Ashley. Rumor was that there was a guy in the car and he took off.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

It was Ashley.

[Tamara Judge]

I mean, she was going home. So I couldn't imagine she was driving the guy to her house the four minutes away.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

The rumor.

[Special Agent Riegel]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

Came from. Add up. That doesn't.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

The rumor came from her when she was talking. And like, of course, you know, in our world, in any world, in any of this world of bloggers and journalists and things, they take what you say and they elaborate on it. Or they make a story out of it.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

It doesn't mean there was any truth to it. I wouldn't have believed anything she said, even if she got her name right.

[Tamara Judge]

Well, you can tell that Karen is carefully using her words when she talks. In the very beginning, she wouldn't say alcohol. She called it the drink. She didn't talk about or say alcoholism or alcoholic. But at the end of the interview, she did address that. Now, which we'll get to.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. She's using her words very carefully. I think Andy is.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Because she doesn't want to give it up.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, I. I think once you admit that you're an alcoholic, like, you are going to be held accountable for every time you. You know. And she's on a TV show and

[Teddi Mellencamp]

she's gonna never drink again.

[Tamara Judge]

Right.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I don't care if she admits it or not.

[Tamara Judge]

Well, you heard her say that she'd rather go to Narcotics Anonymous than aa. So she's really kind of leaning into the fact that a doctor prescribed her medication that she was abusing and Andy. But Andy even asked her, like, well, what are you using? And she. She wouldn't answer and said something about it being, I don't know, afraid of getting sued or. Which. I didn't understand that either. If you are abusing narcotics, let's say.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Just saying it's Xanax. Use a word. I'm not saying. It's not the first one to know

[Tamara Judge]

that Xanax and alcohol do not mix. Now, if it's something like Xanax, where is she getting it from? Is she saying, like, the doctor's gonna sue her? Like, I don't under.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

She didn't make prescription drugs and alcohol for 20 years. 20 years ago was when it was first prescribed. Here's what I'm gonna say to you, which of all the things that's going on here in my mind, I am saying, this is going on like this for 20 years. I feel her husband is an enabler, and I feel that he loves her so much that he never wants to tell her no. I think she's. I think there's a part of him that felt that if he told her no, he'd lose her. Because he doesn't want to lose her. He's even saying at this point, he's saying that if you tell me when you're completely sober you don't want me, then I'll let you go. He's never. And you know, to his credit, he could never keep her. He couldn't stop her from drinking Right. I think if he felt that she ever got sober, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm only speculating. He felt if she ever got sober and he was afraid that she would still look at him and say, I don't want to be here, and leave.

[Tamara Judge]

Do you think that if she continues to be sober that it's. They're going to end up in divorce? Because she said over and over she's not happy at home. Almost to the point where I felt like maybe she was saying that that's the reason why she drinks.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

She was almost saying that she was running from that. But then she got to the bottom of what it is, and that was because she was sexually assaulted at the age of 18.

[Tamara Judge]

19.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

19. So at 19, she was sexually assaulted and it manifested later on, which is

[Tamara Judge]

very sad because you know what? That, that, that does happen. It does happen.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

And there's no denying that is there's plaza. Like, that's just Right. Certainly manifests itself to all of us. Trauma. Childhood trauma.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Later, teenage. You know, I was thinking when she said that, I'm like, I tried to think of who. Who do I know that's 18. I have a niece. I have a couple nieces that are at that age. And I said, thought to myself, to me, they're babies. So if that happened to them, it's horrible. Like, you know, yeah, she wasn't a minor, but she was still a young girl.

[Tamara Judge]

Right, Right. She's violated. Violated.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

She was a woman who was violated at any age. It's horrible.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. Well, I think that Andy, like I was saying, is asking all the right questions, but often he looked confused and lost with her answers.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yes.

[Tamara Judge]

Like, yes. Okay, I agree.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Because he had a. Like, he's an amazing. He's a amazing, amazing interviewer.

[Tamara Judge]

He.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

He's unbelievable.

[Tamara Judge]

But I think that she.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

All the time.

[Tamara Judge]

Some of the things she said were confusing even as the viewers watch predicting.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Like, it was contradicting.

[Tamara Judge]

Yes. Like, well, for example, she does not seem to accept the word alcoholic. She called it the drink. She blamed prescription drugs more than alcohol, yet admitted to sitting in a bar drinking during the day for more than 20 years. Like, that's a drinking problem. But I think towards the end, she did kind of open up a little bit more.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Is she a drunk or an alcoholic? What is the difference? Is there a difference? I don't think so.

[Tamara Judge]

I don't know. I don't know that there is a difference. Like, she can be. She can be a bad drunk, but we don't see that we're not seeing a bad drunk. Like, I'm a bad drunk. Like, if I drank, I'm an idiot. Am I an alcoholic?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

No.

[Tamara Judge]

I hardly ever drink. However, I have a question.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Hold on. Because I know someone who may know very well the answer to that. Paul, would you mind coming here for a second? We have a question we're talking about. Karen. He actually just watched it with me. Is there a difference between a drunk, alcoholic.

[Special Agent Riegel]

Is there a difference between a drunk and an alcoholic? Very big difference.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

What's the difference?

[Special Agent Riegel]

Well, just because someone gets drunk doesn't mean they're an alcoholic.

[Podcast Narrator]

Right?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah, but if I'm calling you, oh, he's a drunk.

[Special Agent Riegel]

Well, it's just someone that can't handle their liquor.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Got it.

[Podcast Narrator]

That.

[Tamara Judge]

That's me.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Okay.

[Special Agent Riegel]

What's the reason for the question?

[Tamara Judge]

We were just wondering, like, is there a difference? Is there a difference between, like, somebody that's, like, a drunk? Is she, like, a drunk or she and alcoholic, like, still makes you an alcoholic? Now, me, I'm a bad drunk. I drink and I lose control.

[Special Agent Riegel]

But that's okay.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, I just don't do it very often. I just don't do it very often. Try not to. Yeah.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

He likes. Paul likes that.

[Special Agent Riegel]

A functional alcoholic. Yeah. They say that if you have more than one or two drinks a week, you're an alcoholic, so.

[Tamara Judge]

Really?

[Special Agent Riegel]

That's what they say?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah. That's the gauge.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah.

[Special Agent Riegel]

Oh, yeah. But they always say if you're not, and it's a kind of cool thing, well, don't drink. If someone says you just don't drink for two weeks, they're like, well, I have no problem. I don't care. They're like, well, don't drink for three weeks. It's the fact that you are going to drink ever again. That's how they qualify, whether you have a problem or not.

[Tamara Judge]

Well, I think also when somebody says, like to someone, like, just don't drink for a month. And they'll be like, why? Why would I do that?

[Special Agent Riegel]

Nothing wrong with me. What's wrong?

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, like, if somebody said, like, I. I can go months without having a sip of alcohol. Months.

[Special Agent Riegel]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

And then if somebody said, like, okay, whatever, not that big of a job, like, it's not that hard to do.

[Special Agent Riegel]

Right.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

We were saying was she wasn't admitting to being an alcoholic.

[Special Agent Riegel]

In denial. She's denying that she's in denial herself about what's going on.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Is that what you took from it?

[Special Agent Riegel]

A million percent?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Okay.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yeah.

[Special Agent Riegel]

From sitting in. Sitting in the room a bunch of alcoholics myself talking to them. It's the first thing you notice. You have to admit it to get pasta.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. Yeah. All right, thank you. Bye.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

You can ask me about food any day.

[Tamara Judge]

Addicted to food.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

If someone's addicted to food, I'll tell you.

[Jill Winterstein]

Hi, this is Jo Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter Podcast where we talk about astrology and natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life. And I just sat down with a mini driver.

[Mini Driver]

The Irish traveler said when I was 16. You're going to have a terrible time with men.

[Jill Winterstein]

Actor, storyteller, and unapologetic Aquarian visionary. Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives. And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are Misunderstood a Sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house Spark her unconventional approach to partnership.

[Mini Driver]

He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all.

[Jill Winterstein]

If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chart side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity and real life, this episode is a must. Listen Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast.

[Mind Games Narrator]

What if mind control is real?

[Special Agent Riegel]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[Mind Games Narrator]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[Ben Higgins]

When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

[Mind Games Narrator]

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

[Narrator/Reporter]

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

[Mind Games Narrator]

Can you get someone to join your cult?

[Jill Winterstein]

NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.

[Mind Games Narrator]

Nlp, AKA Neuro Linguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

It's about engineering consciousness.

[Mind Games Narrator]

Mind Games is the story of nlp, its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a new Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, NLP might actually work.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

This is wild.

[Mind Games Narrator]

Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ben Higgins]

What do you do when the headlines don't explain what's happening inside of you? I'm Ben Higgins, and if you can hear me is where culture meets the soul, a place for real conversation. Each episode I sit down with people from all walks of life, celebrities, thinkers, and everyday folks. And we go deeper than the polished story. We talk about what drives us, what shapes us, and what gives us hope. We get honest about the big stuff. Identity. When you don't recognize yourself anymore. Loss that changes you Purpose when success isn't enough. Peace When. When your mind won't slow down. Fake when it's complicated. Some guests have answers. Most are still figuring it out. If you've ever felt like there has to be more to the story, this show is for you. Listen to if you can hear me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Narrator/Reporter]

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.

[Special Agent Riegel]

This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[Podcast Narrator]

This MSS officer has no idea the US Government is onto him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast.

[Tamara Judge]

I now have several terabytes of an

[Narrator/Reporter]

MSS officer, no doubt, no question of his life. And that's a unicorn.

[Ben Higgins]

No one had ever seen anything like that.

[Tamara Judge]

It was unbelievable.

[Narrator/Reporter]

This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

[Podcast Narrator]

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Tamara Judge]

So what Karen basically said was she can't name the pills that she's taking or she could get sued, which, I'm sorry, I'm just not buying that. If I'm addicted to Xanax or opioids or I don't even know opiate is pain pills or whatever, that's not me. If a doctor's prescribing it to me and I am abusing it, the only person to blame is me. And I kind of got the feeling like she was kind of pushing off the narcotic part of it as they were prescribed. It's a doctor's fault. It's not mine.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Well, yeah, yeah. My, my biggest thing, my biggest takeaway is she has family, she has children who are lovely, yes, wonderful. They love her. Her husband is crazy about her, but no one ever was able to stop her.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, I mean, she's come a long way from, you know, from those four alcohol, alcohol related incidents to being a dui. She has gone to jail, she has paid her dues, and she is coming out of it. And, you know, I, I'm not discrediting her for being open and talking with Andy. But I felt like I was left with wanting a more raw.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

She's. I'm going to give her some time. I'm going to give her a lot of grace.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

And I'm going to give her some time. She's just been through a lot. She hasn't been home in six months. Her worst nightmare happened, which could have been worse. And she said I could have killed someone. So that would have been her worst.

[Tamara Judge]

When she said that. Yes.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

She.

[Tamara Judge]

When she said that, like, she said, thank God I didn't kill anybody. That made me feel like, yes, thank God.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I'm gonna give Karen. I'm not gonna judge her on this. I. I'm really not. I'm sorry. I'm not gonna judge her on the. On this interview.

[Tamara Judge]

I'm not. I mean we're just trying to break down this. This interview. I'm not judging in the sense that, oh God, you did a horrible job. Da, da, da. I think she was open about certain things and not open about other things.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Sometimes it takes. I guess it could take time.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I've seen people more. More. I'm not going to use the word humble. She just spent six months in jail. She's humbled. I've seen people definitely more open about things or. Or I thought I've heard them speak differently is what I want to say.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. Well, the one thing that she was absolutely transparent about is about being 19 years old and being sexually assaulted and she feels emotionally shut down from the incident. Like that to me is like, that's like. Not that that I wanted her to go through that, but that like, was like, oh my gosh. Like, it was like one of those moments like, oh my. That I understand better. You know, like, wow. I didn't know that happened. I don't know that she's ever talked about it on the show before.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

You never addressed it because when she went home, people didn't believe her.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. I mean that part breaks my heart. It really does commend her for even talking about.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

So brave to talk about that.

[Tamara Judge]

Well, they always say like people that are. Do have substance abuse.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

It.

[Tamara Judge]

There's a lot of times there's underlying underlining problem and. And that to me was like, I hope that she is getting therapy for that and being able to deal with that because it will definitely make life a lot easier.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I, I listen, I wish her the best moving forward.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

But I hope that she's okay with never being able. Never being able to ever have Another drink. What did you.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, me too.

[Podcast Narrator]

What did you.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

That's what I know from being from. From my family, you know?

[Tamara Judge]

Then Karen explains how it was difficult for her to accept that she was abusing alcohol. And that was, like, really the first time in the interview that we heard her say she's abusing it. She didn't call it the drink, you know, just like back in the day. What was it to last season? She would say, the accident. It wasn't the dui. It was the accident. And I think that's maybe her way in her mind of coping with things.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Well, you have to label these things, too, except the culpability. No, you can't. You can't cushion it. You have to be really hard about it.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. Well, she said she could accept that she was abusing prescription drugs because the doctor wrote her a prescription for it, but would go. She would go over her dose, like she said, but alcohol was completely by choice and that she chose to numb.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Well, she said that the night that she went out. The night she went out, she was unhappy in her marriage, and she went out to numb that.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. And I think that this is the part of the interview where, you know, I was like, okay, there she is. She's actually being more open. I felt like in the earlier part of the interview, she was not. She was kind of dancing around, saying

[Teddi Mellencamp]

maybe she needs to. She. These are all things she's admitting for the, like, kind of the first time ever. So maybe it's going to take a little time for her to be really even honest with herself about it.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Before she could articulate it well, Andy

[Tamara Judge]

comes right out and says, do you believe you have a drinking problem? She's. Her response was, she's a woman in lifetime recovery, and she doesn't want to put a label on herself like an alcoholic.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I think you have to. I think it's part of the 12 step program. You have to admit I am an alcoholic.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. I mean that right there when she said that, I just kind of felt like, oh, I just felt a little bit in denial. And I'm not trying to be negative about it, but it just kind of

[Teddi Mellencamp]

felt like, oh, it's not what we're used to hearing from somebody in recovery. That's not what I'm used to hearing in recovery.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Maybe it's different for her.

[Tamara Judge]

The one thing that she was talking about, which I. I could totally relate to this, is she likes because I'm a very disciplined person. She loved the discipline in prison, and it's Maybe something she doesn't normally practice in life at home. But waking up at a certain time. That time was 4:30 in the morning. Having breakfast at 5 afternoon. She would work out. She would go out and mingle. Dinner was at 4:30, lights out at 9:45.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Doesn't sound so bad to me right now the way she's describing.

[Tamara Judge]

That's exactly how I live my life. But I'm in bed by 8 up at 4:30 today. You know I haven't had breakfast yet but what did you think about her saying that she lied to the officer? That she was having her cycle so she could line the toilet with maxi pads?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

That was really funny.

[Tamara Judge]

That's more unsanitary than just having like a clean stainless steel toilet.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Why? You want to put your ass on a stainless steel toilet? No thank you.

[Tamara Judge]

I don't know.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I mean did she change out those comfortable.

[Tamara Judge]

Well, I've never sat on one but does she change those? Did she change her maxi pads often?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I'm sure.

[Tamara Judge]

Or was she only allowed to change them once a month?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

No. Well then probably once a month. Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

She said she might have been stripped down like Andy's. Like how did it feel to be stripped down? I don't think she really question. No. She said she had black lace panties on.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

No.

[Tamara Judge]

So you're allowed to wear your own underwear in prison or you don't get like tan colored underwear?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Not true. Not true. Nope. And you are stripped down. You are strip searched. You have to squat and cough to make sure you're not hiding anything anywhere where the sun don't shine.

[Tamara Judge]

That's humiliating.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Human cavities are known to be. You hide things in there. Sorry, Karen. I don't know what gel. Maybe it's a different gel than I know of. But I don't think that's how it went.

[Tamara Judge]

How. How does it work in jail? Do you do your own laundry? Do they just bring you like clean clothes every day? Like the same uniform? Do you have to wear them for a certain amount of time?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

You wear other people's underwear?

[Tamara Judge]

That's what I was wondering.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

These are kind of the questions underwear they give you.

[Tamara Judge]

No thank you. I would go commando. No, just saying I wanted to hear more about what happened in jail and things like that. Maybe we'll get it at the reunion.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I don't think she's going to talk about it because she's not really.

[Tamara Judge]

I heard. I saw. Did you see the clip where she is telling Wendy to say less and to shut her effing mouth?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Professor I loved it. Well, here you go.

[Tamara Judge]

That. That's the Karen that I missed right there.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

But I also want to know what the conversation. Don't you want to know what the conversation is between her and Wendy and why she didn't thank her in the end? Yes. Oh, did she say. Because she's the only one that didn't call.

[Tamara Judge]

I don't. I. I don't know that we got clarity on that. And I'm hoping that we do get that information. And I'm sure, like, Karen's sitting there going, I might have a, you know, an addiction problem, but what you're going through is not good. Not good.

[Podcast Narrator]

No.

[Tamara Judge]

Stop talking. Shut the F up. Who are you most excited for to see Karen confronted the reunion? I would say Wendy.

[Blue Apron Advertiser]

Right.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah. I want. I want closure on that. I've been waiting all this time to see why she didn't thank her. And Wendy had no idea where it was coming from. She was like, why me? Like, I've been there for her. I've spoke to her. I've done this, this, and this. And now what? Nothing.

[Tamara Judge]

Andy had said something about, some viewers think that you should not be coming back. You don't deserve to come back to Potomac. And, you know, she says she has to earn a second chance, and the show saved her. And I.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Do.

[Tamara Judge]

You know what? I do think the show can save you in situations like this. You can see yourself from the outside, and you can see what's going on, and it's up to you to make those changes.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Well, I feel I'm looking at it differently because she never made the change by seeing herself on tv because she's never showing up drunk.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, but she's going to see the, you know, this part of it where she, you know, the. The body cam footage. And, you know, I think she was in denial before. You can't be in denial anymore.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I took it like, the thing that saved her was not being able to go to legal Seafood all day.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Every day. Because she had to show up to work. She had to. I don't know that she wasn't drinking every day, but she certainly had to show up cognizant. So how was she able to not, you know, to take those drugs every day and then not drink for that time? I mean, was she like that every day? Was she only like that eight months out of the year? Because we filmed four. Like, how was she able to shut it off and turn it back on? Because she turned it up when she did.

[Tamara Judge]

Well, her own husband said, like, she's different now. And maybe he's so used to her under the influence that now she's like a totally different person.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I think he was afraid of her being sober and still not wanting to be with him.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

So he kept her drunk.

[Tamara Judge]

I mean, there's no doubt in my mind that Karen will be back next season. She'll reclaim her champagne flute for season 11. We are going to be able to see her at. With the third part of the reunion. I think she has admitted another thing she did own up to is that, you know, we talked about earlier about her and Ray working through her, their problems, and he said that he would let her go. And I'll be curious to see what happens with that relationship if she remains sober. Like, I hope that they can work it out.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

He's a good man. But you, the heart wants what the heart wants and the heart doesn't want what the heart doesn't want. Like, I look at her and I say, this man loves you. You have a beautiful family, you have a beautiful home. You have everything you could want.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

You just. Are you not in love? Like, what are the. What are the issues with her and Ray?

[Tamara Judge]

Maybe they felt she fell out of love. I don't know.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

This has been going on for 20 years. So what's, what's the core? This man seems like the sweetest guy. Okay. I mean, is something we don't know, Are we not seeing something? Are you just not into him? What is it?

[Tamara Judge]

I don't know. Don't know. I don't know. But finally, at the very end of the interview, she did admit to alcoholism.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

That's what I'm saying.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Maybe she just needs time to physically say it, verbalize it.

[Tamara Judge]

Now, Instagram was not very. I mean, it was split. I would say more so people saying, you know, they're not buying it. Andrew Prancer said it's all a word salad. Amanda Grimshaw, 69, not buying it. Arrogant and still making excuses. Mimi Paron, she still plays semantics. Often it feels like some accountability. But being, you know, wishy washy, I

[Teddi Mellencamp]

could see where everybody. I could see everybody's side of that.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah. Farm boy didn't go into as much depth as what we needed. And that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying, like, you know, she did a horrible job. I just wish she would have gone much deeper.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

And then other people, Like Amy Jordan, 6904. Very raw. Sounds like Karen is trying to get it together. I hope it works.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I agree with her.

[Tamara Judge]

Right. Karen Stoneman, 83, said, Love the interview. Can't wait for Karen to rip into Wendy. So it's a little bit mixed. You know, we can't expect everything, I guess, from one interview.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

No, I'm giving her grace.

[Tamara Judge]

Time was gonna tell. And she was.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Was that the same day she came home?

[Tamara Judge]

No, it was a few days later. I think it was one. After she came home, she allowed the cameras to pick her up from jail. And, you know, she was released on the. September 2nd, on my birthday. That's why I remember. And the interview was on September 9th. So, you know, the cameras were in the car. You could tell she was a little bit uncomfortable going home and then getting home. Could you imagine what that was like?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Jumpy, like, you haven't been in a car in six.

[Tamara Judge]

Or outside.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Outside. Walking outside of those gates. You know, sometimes people get right out and they're like, oh, no, no. We just saw. There's a warrant. You got to come back.

[Tamara Judge]

Oh, geez. Geez.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

You're not out until you're in that car in your home.

[Tamara Judge]

Wait, can you explain to me, because I wasn't quite clear on this. She came home in braids, and she said it was hair extension from other inmates.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah. So they probably went in with their weaves. Okay.

[Tamara Judge]

Was it, like, a sentimental thing?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah, I think they. That was their. Yeah, I think that was very nice of them. I liked her, by the way. They did a great job.

[Tamara Judge]

I would love to see Karen next season helping other people going through the same situation. I think that'd be very inspiring.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Well, she's got to be really okay before she can do that.

[Tamara Judge]

Right, Right. She's at that.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

All these steps.

[Tamara Judge]

Capacity to do that. Well, that's it. Now we have three more episodes. The reunion. I am so looking forward to it because they're going to be addressing Wendy's legal issues, which not much has been said about that. And then we get to hear more from Karen. And I, you know, I. I do love the little shade that she gave to Wendy, saying she lived in. Where'd she say, Timbuktu?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah.

[Tamara Judge]

And I'm like, yes.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I mean, like. Because she's out of nowhere, like, you know. Well, like, you know, sometimes there's a few towns over where the house. You could get double the size of the house for the less the money. You know what I'm saying? Like, is, does she say she lives in Timbuktu? Because it's that kind of a situation. Like, does Wendy have this house? She has because she lives in outside of the more desirable place, you know, in real estate, it's location, location.

[Tamara Judge]

Right, right.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

So, yeah, she don't like when she just. I want to know. I want to know. What's the prop? What's the beef?

[Tamara Judge]

Well, we're going to see soon. We are going to see, and I can't wait.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to that. So, anyway, this was a good episode. It was enlightening, but I. I still need to see more.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, I look forward to seeing more.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Yeah. And I. And I look and I wish her well, and we both do wish her all the luck and love and absolutely all the success in her record.

[Tamara Judge]

And, Karen, you were so brave to do that. You really were to do that interview. I know it was hard, and it maybe wasn't what everybody wanted or expected, but you did it.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

You did it exactly, girl.

[Tamara Judge]

So.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

All right, good luck, Karen. We're rooting for you.

[Tamara Judge]

Yes. And by the way, she is beautiful.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

That's what I'm saying. She's so beautiful. You wouldn't know that. Yeah, he's gotten through. I didn't.

[Tamara Judge]

Did get a little confused with the eyebrows, though. Eyebrows are a little bit high on the forehead.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Aren't they always?

[Tamara Judge]

I don't know. Something didn't.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I'm like, listen, she's just gotten home out of being in jail for.

[Tamara Judge]

Did she get a jailhouse bra left?

[Teddi Mellencamp]

I don't know. Sign me up.

[Tamara Judge]

Yeah, but she looked really good. Really pretty. All right, guys, thank you so much for tuning in, and we'll see you next week.

[Teddi Mellencamp]

Thank you. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.