Two Jersey Js: The Golden Age of Love

Summary

Podcast Summary: Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge Episode: Two Jersey Js: The Golden Age of Love
Release Date: January 22, 2025

---

Introduction

In the latest episode of Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge, hosted by iHeartPodcasts, Teddi and Tamra delve into the intricacies of aging, love, and the societal perceptions surrounding middle-aged women. The episode features a heartfelt conversation with Joan Vasos, the Golden Bachelorette, who shares her unique journey of finding love later in life.

---

Personal Updates

Teddi Mellencamp (00:01:23):
Teddi opens the episode by updating listeners on her son Aiden's recovery from a broken leg and shoulder, highlighting his return to competitive basketball.

Tamra Judge (00:03:00):
Tamra discusses her recent trip to Florida and shares anecdotes about a friend's 50th birthday celebration, emphasizing the challenges and humor in aging gracefully.

---

Hair Journeys and Treatments

Teddi Mellencamp (00:04:23):
Teddi candidly talks about her struggle with thinning hair, recounting her attempts with low-dose minoxidil (Rogaine) and the side effects she experienced, such as significant bloating.

Tamra Judge (00:05:07):
She listens empathetically and suggests biotin as a potential supplement, leading to a deeper discussion about effective hair solutions for middle-aged women.

Teddi Mellencamp (00:06:35):
Teddi shares her experience with PRP (Platelet-Rich Plasma) therapy, explaining the process and its effectiveness in promoting hair growth, and expresses excitement about the results.

---

Introducing Joan Vasos

Teddi Mellencamp (00:11:38):
The hosts introduce Joan Vasos, the Golden Bachelorette, praising her beauty and elegance. She joins the conversation, bringing a wealth of experience from her time on The Golden Bachelor.

---

Joan's Experience on Golden Bachelor/Bachelorette

Joan Vasos (00:14:01):
Joan discusses her decision to participate in The Golden Bachelor, highlighting the challenges she faced as a widow seeking love again. She emphasizes the differences in casting and portrayal between older participants and their younger counterparts.

Teddi Mellencamp (00:15:53):
She narrates her journey of applying to the show after struggling with traditional dating methods, ultimately finding success and love with her fiancé, Chuck.

---

Challenges of Dating Later in Life

Joan Vasos (00:26:20):
Joan reflects on the disparities in how aging men and women are treated on reality TV, noting that men often receive more positive attention while women face undue criticism.

Tamra Judge (00:28:07):
She agrees, pointing out the gender biases inherent in such shows and the importance of representing older adults authentically.

---

Social Media Pressures and Ageism

Joan Vasos (00:43:48):
Joan shares her experiences with social media backlash following her appearance on the show, detailing the vitriol aimed at her physical appearance and behavior.

Teddi Mellencamp (00:48:35):
She relates her own struggles with negative comments post-show, underscoring the harsh realities of public scrutiny for middle-aged women in the spotlight.

Joan Vasos (00:51:14):
Discussing Danny and other challenging behaviors on reality TV, Joan emphasizes the need for a reset in how participants are portrayed, advocating for more inclusive and authentic representations.

---

Love After Loss and Relationships

Joan Vasos (00:52:47):
Joan opens up about her heartfelt connections formed during the show, particularly with Chuck. She describes their deep conversations and the emotional journey of reconciling her past love with her new relationship.

Tamra Judge (00:53:18):
She commends Joan's ability to navigate love after loss, highlighting the importance of self-acceptance and emotional readiness in forming new relationships.

---

Future Plans and Career Opportunities

Joan Vasos (00:53:55):
Looking ahead, Joan expresses her desire to continue advocating for older adults seeking love, considering avenues like podcasts, TV appearances, or writing to inspire and represent others in similar situations.

Teddi Mellencamp (00:54:41):
She shares her optimism about future opportunities and the fulfillment she has found through the show, regardless of external outcomes.

---

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Joan expressing gratitude for the supportive families and the bond she shares with Chuck. Teddi and Tamra commend her resilience and serve as role models for embracing love and life at any age. They close with plans to strengthen their friendship and continue advocating for positive representations of middle-aged women.

---

Notable Quotes

• Joan Vasos (00:35:02):
  "Picture it like this. Picture that John is a balloon in this hand and this other person is a balloon in this hand, and you don't have to let go of this one to hold onto this one."

• Joan Vasos (00:36:25):
  "They were very, very, very. Their intentions were very good, obviously, or I wouldn't have gone on the Golden Bachelorette."

• Joan Vasos (00:48:52):
  "I have a super strong pain threshold, by the way, but it wasn't so bad."

• Joan Vasos (00:59:14):
  "It's not gross if you kiss somebody."

• Joan Vasos (01:11:38):
  "What I really wanted was to find someone to share the next chapter of my life with, and Chuck has been wonderful."

---

Key Takeaways

• Embracing Love at Any Age: Joan Vasos exemplifies that love and companionship are attainable and fulfilling, regardless of age or past losses.

• Navigating Social Media: Middle-aged women in the public eye face unique challenges with online harassment and ageism, highlighting the need for greater empathy and support.

• Authentic Representation: Reality TV shows like The Golden Bachelor play a crucial role in reshaping societal perceptions of aging, promoting inclusivity and diverse representations.

• Personal Growth and Acceptance: The journey of finding love later in life involves deep personal reflection, overcoming guilt, and embracing new beginnings while honoring past relationships.

---

This episode offers insightful discussions on aging, love, and the societal pressures faced by middle-aged women, providing hope and inspiration for listeners navigating similar life stages.

Transcript

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

If you love your phone but not your carrier, just switch to T Mobile. You can keep your phone, keep your number and we'll help pay it off up to $800 per line. You can also use our savings calculator to compare our plans and streaming benefits against Verizon and AT&T. So switch and keep your phone, keep your number and keep more of your moolah. @t mobile.com up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device credit service port in 90 plus days with device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Join late night legend Jon Stewart and the best news team for today's biggest headlines, exclusive extended interviews and more. Now this is a second term we can all get behind. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[NPR Life Kit Host]

Here at Life Kit, NPR's Self Help podcast, we love the idea of helping you make meaningful lifestyle changes. Our policy is to never be too punishing on yourself or too grand in your goals, which is why we've got shows on how to make little nudges to your behavior and create habits that stick. Listen to the Life Kit podcast on iheartradio.

[Jackie]

Hey guys, it's Jackie and Jen and we are two Jersey Jays. I feel like we haven't recorded an episode in a little while.

[Jen]

We haven't. Right?

[Jackie]

I know. Our last episode was on New Year's Day and what.

[Jen]

Which feels like a million years ago.

[Jackie]

What a year January has been. I mean, it is there more has happened in January of 25 than I think happened in all of 24April. It's wild.

[Jen]

It is. It is. Tell me what, tell me what's going on with you.

[Jackie]

Tell me about your journey personally. Everything is fine. The kids are good. Aiden finally got back. I know. If you haven't followed the journey of my injured son. He broke his leg a year ago this week. He broke his leg that night. We were at the Madonna concert.

[Jen]

Madonna concert. Right.

[Jackie]

And he's a very competitive basketball player. Got back in in May and then broke his shoulder in July. And so he just went back in last week to the games. And so it's like a whole new world. I love watching him play.

[Jen]

So you always said that you love watching really sports.

[Jackie]

Great. But I have a. An infection on my Toe. So I gotta go to the podiatrist today and get it cut open. Seeing your friend. Your friend. Jill.

[Jen]

Jill. Oh, nice. Yeah, very nice.

[Jackie]

What's going on with you?

[Jen]

I just got back from Florida. The weather was crappy there, but it's certainly crappier here. So one of my very dear friends turned 50, which. It's hard to imagine that I'm friends with a 50 year old because that just seemed. Well, I'm friends with you and you're 47, but you're not that far past 50. 56. Believe me, you will see. 56. Okay, 47 still, right, Jack?

[Jackie]

48. 48.

[Jen]

48. 48 to 56.

[Joan]

All right.

[Jen]

You'll tell me when you turn 56. But it's. It is. There's a spread there and there's. And my. So my dear friend, we all. There are a bunch of us from here. She's living up Prisado River. We all went there. She lives in Boke now. And she made a ton of new friends and a lot of them are younger. And so we're there and we're all dolled up and the whole thing. I'm looking around, looking to the left, looking to the right. There are these beautiful, to me, young women. And I'm like, almost like pointing my finger at her. I'm like, what have you. What have you got me into? Why am I here? Cannot stand here with these young, gorgeous. Whatever. I was just being. I was just kidding around. But it's funny.

[Jackie]

So did she move to Boca because she was empty nesting and she just wanted.

[Jen]

No, no, no. Kids were actually going into like their senior year of high school.

[Jackie]

Oh, she has three. Moved to Boca there.

[Jen]

So one year. Yes. And maybe it was. Maybe it was Jane and Jesse's junior year. Right. Which you would think it was the best move she ever made. There are a ton of reasons why she did it. She's an unbelievable mother and I have to say, it just. It could not have worked out better for them. The kids love it, loved it. They acclimated very easily, made a ton of friends, and she absolutely loves being there, so.

[Jackie]

Oh, great. Love that. Okay, cool. You know, I thought of a. Another topic that we should tackle another time because I went on this little hair journey and so my hair is getting. This is a middle age woman. My hair is getting so thin. You don't have that problem.

[Jen]

But I do have that problem.

[Jackie]

Well, your hair looks so. So like thick.

[Jen]

And why extensions?

[Jackie]

No, I know, I never thought.

[Jen]

But like, I never thought I Would need extensions.

[Jackie]

Well, like, even in the front, though, you see, like, I'm so thin. So anyway, so I tried this medication. My. My colorist, who I've been with for over 20 years, I love him so much. And he said to me, have you ever tried low dose minoxidil?

[Jen]

And I said, that's like Rogaine, isn't it?

[Jackie]

Yeah, well, it's like, it's a medication. And so I called my dermatologist, who I love, and she said, yeah, it works great. I said, any side effects? She said, you could get some bloating. So, of course, I'm one of the few percent. I got so freaking bloated. Most people do not. I got so bloated, like, my rings wouldn't go on my fingers. So after two weeks, I went off of it. But I was upset because at that point I was like, you know, for two weeks, I was like, oh, I'm gonna have Blake Lively hair, you know.

[Jen]

And maybe not Blake Lively. Oh, well, maybe not right now.

[Jackie]

And so I went off and I was like, you know what? I want to do something, but I have no idea what I can do for you.

[Joan]

What about.

[Jen]

So I started. What about neutrophil?

[Jackie]

Yes. No, no, no. I've been on neutrophil for seven years, and it's fabulous, but I think at a certain point, it just turns into a vitamin and, like, it stops. I don't know. I could be wrong. Don't sue me. Biotin.

[Jen]

Do you take biotin?

[Jackie]

Well, that's part of neutrophil. So I. But I wanted something stronger. I don't want a vitamin. I don't want to mess around. I want, like, I want to do something real. So I was thinking to myself, God, there's so many women who have this problem and who don't know what the hell they can do about it. So I think we should do an episode on all. There are so many things you can do for thinning hair. So I actually, it's funny, I called this one place, and they were just so hungry to sell me, like, everything they were selling. They convinced me over the phone that I needed a hair transplant. I.

[Jen]

Over the phone without seeing you? Without seeing you?

[Joan]

No.

[Jackie]

I had to send them pictures of my head. But I, I, I literally, for. For a few hours, was like, okay, I'm going to get a hair transplant. And then I was like, wait a second. Really don't need a hair transplant.

[Jen]

I got news for you. I have a friend who did do that. A woman.

[Jackie]

A woman they they.

[Jen]

When they did, they put the. The needles into your scalp.

[Jackie]

That's. That's something different. That's different. That's what I ended up doing.

[Jen]

Oh, you did that? Very.

[Jackie]

Yeah. So I went somewhere local. I went for a consult. It's called prp. Yes, and yes. And they said I was the perfect candidate because it's really interesting. I know our guest is coming on in a few minutes, but I'll just tell you. So they. They took 3D images of my head and they showed me that a healthy follicle. So your follicles have to be, like, alive and active in order for PRP to work, because what they do is they draw your blood and they inject your blood back into the follicle to get it, like, really growing again. But they took 3D images of my head and they showed me that each follicle should have two pieces of hair growing out of it. And mine have one. A lot of mine have one. So I had my first round of PRP eight days ago, and it was fantastic. You go for four months, one treatment a month, and. And then your hair starts really growing back in.

[Jen]

Did it hurt? My hurt. My friend said it was very painful.

[Jackie]

It was not. It was only five minutes. I have a super strong pain threshold, by the way, but it was. It wasn't so bad. And the next few days, your heads are like, a tiny bit sore. But I'm really, really excited about it. But we should do an episode about so many people reached out to me because I put it on my. My Instagram right about this exact, like, oh, my God, I'm dying to know if it works because I have such thinning hair.

[Jen]

All of this ties in beautifully to our topic and in terms of talking to our guest today, because it's all about the aging process and it's all about, you know, what happens, and it's all about, you know, the things that are great about it, the things that are difficult about it. Um, you know, we started this podcast, as you, of course, know, with the idea that we would talk about what happens as you get older as a woman, you know, reaching 48, reaching 56. Our guest is a little bit older than that. But how to handle all those changes is not easy. It is so challenging.

[Jana Kramer]

This is Jana Kramer from Wine down with Jana Kramer. This podcast is brought to you by Kim Crawford Wines. As the holiday season brings us together, Kim Crawford invites you to add a touch of elegance to your gatherings. Whether you're hosting a festive dinner, a cozy get together with friends or a new year celebration. Make every moment amazing with a chilled glass of New Zealand's finest. Celebrate the joy of the season and create unforgettable memories with Kim Crawford Sauvignon Blanc, known for its vibrant blend of citrus, tropical fruit and crushed herbs. For a sparkling touch, enjoy Kim Crawford Prosecco, and for those looking to celebrate in a lighter and brighter way, try Kim Crawford Illuminate Sparkling, a lower alcohol sparkling wine that lets you savor amazing moments without compromise. Visit kimcrawfordwines.com to learn more and find Kim Crawford wines near you. Savor Amazing for those 21 and over, please savor responsibly. Constellation Imports, Rutherford, California Kim Crawford Illuminate sparkling wine at 7% alcohol by volume compared to Kim Crawford Prosecco at 11%.

[T-Mobile Advertiser]

Alcohol by volume Taxes Was waiting around for your taxes to be done, which led to worrying about not getting any money back. Now taxes is matching with a TurboTax expert who can do your taxes in a day to get you up to $4,000 fast with a Refund advance loan. Now this is taxes intuit turbotax get an expert now on turbotax.com expert filing only available with TurboTax lifeful service refund advance has $0 loan fees and 0% APR. Refund advance loans may be issued by First Century Bank, NA or Web bank terms apply. Subject to approval.

[NPR Life Kit Host]

Here at Life Kit, NPR's Self Help podcast, we love the idea of helping you make meaningful lifestyle changes. Our policy is to never be too punishing on yourself or too grand in your goals, which is why we've got shows on how to make little nudges to your behavior and create habits that stick. Listen to the Life Kit podcast on iHeartRadio.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition Podcast. The Daily Show Podcast has everything you need to stay on top of today's news and pop culture. You get hilarious satirical takes on entertainment, politics, sports, and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else, like extended interviews and a roundup of the weekly headlines. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jackie]

So we have Joan Vasos, who was the Golden Bachelorette, and it's not so much today. I mean, we'll ask some questions about the Bachelorette, of course, but I'm really interested in the whole process of dating in your 60s of finding love again as a widow when you still, you know, there's one thing about, you know, getting divorced that's not easy, but you are almost ready for. To move on and to, you know, reclaim your life. I imagine being a widow, it's different. It feels different because you never fell out of love, you know?

[Jen]

Yeah. I mean, I. My mom has gone through divorce and she was widowed and think both, you know, she was actually very open, having had been through both those experiences. I think she, you know, my mom is woman who wants to spend her life with someone and wants to be married. So, you know, I don't know. Yeah, I'm sure it is very different. I'm sure there are people that get divorced and they're like, I will never get married again, you know, or even more, who knows? Well, Joan is going to be able tell us a little bit more about what that felt like. But we have so many questions for her, and she is such a. A rock star. She is, you know, also, she's so beautiful. Really, just gorgeous in terms of, like, you know, we're talking about hair thinning. Like, she. This is a woman who is on top of whatever her beauty secrets are.

[Jackie]

Like, she, you know, I was, like, staring at her hair. I do this thing where I stare at people's hair, like, because I'm so entranced by, like, how it's so different from person to person. Even when off the topic, like, all the. That's going on with Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. Every time there's a headline, like, I read the headline and then I stare at her hair. It's crazy. I, like, I can't get over her hair.

[Jen]

Justin does. He was fed in the womb, so.

[Jackie]

I am super excited. You're right. She's beautiful. She's elegant, well spoken, and I can't wait to talk to her, so.

[Jen]

Me too. Let's.

[Jackie]

Let's bring her in.

[Joan]

Hi.

[Jen]

Hello. Hi.

[Joan]

How's it going?

[Jen]

It's going. How is it going for you, lady?

[Joan]

It's all the Js here.

[Jackie]

Yes. See Jersey. Oh, yeah. You're J2.

[Jana Kramer]

You want to be our third?

[Joan]

I'm in.

[Jackie]

We're so excited to have you here. Thank you for coming.

[Jen]

Certainly are.

[Joan]

Thank you for wanting to talk to me.

[Jen]

We were just talking about how beautiful you are. So we're going to be superficial for the first part of this and just because you just are. But also, you know, we talk a lot about women of a certain age, and Jackie was just talking about her hair and her hair thinning as she's noticed that she's getting older. But anyway, the point is, you are so gorgeous. Just give us. Before we even start, we need a couple of your secrets, lady. Like, what are you doing?

[Joan]

I'm going to be totally honest. Botox.

[Jen]

Yes.

[Joan]

Good makeup. I think I finally, after a lot of years, in the last maybe five years, actually paying attention to like the face regimen, you know. You know, for years I just put whatever moisturizer was in my cabinet on and now I kind of, I do the vitamin A and vitamin C and the retinol. So now I'm just trying to maintain. I know, I know I'm not going to get any better, but I'm just trying to not look any worse.

[Jen]

Well, so basically it's genetic for you. You just got lucky. Yes.

[Joan]

Gorgeous chemicals. Yeah.

[Jen]

Yes, of course.

[Jackie]

So we are a podcast about middle aged women and all the life issues that we encounter as middle aged women. And of course one of those is dating in middle age and finding love again and what that feels like because it's different than when you are younger and dating. There's a lot of, there's a lot of other things to consider, you know, your children, your families, your lifestyle, you know, you're, you're used to a certain lifestyle. So we're going to ask about all of those things. But first we just want to ask about the show, about the Bachelorette a little bit. Of course. So did you want to go on it? Did somebody push you towards it? How'd you get cast on that show?

[Joan]

I actually self applied, which is not normally. Well, actually seems to be the story more for women and then men all seem to be applied by their daughters. It seems to be like a thing.

[Jackie]

Oh, that's so interesting.

[Joan]

Yeah, that was definitely the story I hear from almost all men. Like they don't self apply generally they, their daughters do it or some woman friend of theirs does it for them. But for me and for a lot of women on my show, like when I was on Golden Bachelor, we applied ourselves so I think maybe we are more conscious of like meeting somebody. Meeting somebody is harder. And you know, dating apps don't always work out and you know, for some reason maybe it's easier for men or maybe they just don't care as much. And so I felt like in general the women applied themselves, which is what I did, but I did it after a little while. So I had been a widow for about two years, which was also a little on the soon side. But I kept thinking Like, I didn't want to go through the second half of my life alone. And I. I felt like I was 60, I was 58 when I was widowed, and I. I kept thinking, like, I could have a whole nother life. I could have a whole nother 30 years with somebody like I have with John. So I had 32 years with John. So I kept thinking I could have a bunch of time, but it could take me some time to find somebody because the pool is not very big, and especially if you want to stay, like, close to where you live. And I did because I have my kids and my grandkids live here, and I didn't want to leave. So then the pool was really small. So I was out to dinner one night with a friend, and we were sitting at a bar at a local restaurant eating dinner, and I was like, I don't know how I'm ever going to meet somebody I've know. I. I kept thinking somebody would introduce me to this great guy, you know, that they work with or a friend of the families or whatever. That never happened. Everybody said, oh, you don't want any of the guys I know, or, you know, I just don't know anybody. And then I thought, well, I'll just meet somebody organically. Like, sitting at a bar, at a restaurant, as opposed to sitting at a table, makes you more open for people to talk to you. Well, certainly people talk to us. I was always there, like, with a girlfriend, but they were never single, so. And then I looked around and I said, look, everybody at this restaurant is a couple. And even if I saw, like, let's say across the bar, I saw a man, I thought he was handsome. If he was my age, I would assume he was married. So I would never, like, send a drink over or wave or, you know, make any, any, you know, advance, because I would have assumed that he was already married. Which is very different from the younger generation. They go everywhere and they think everybody here is single. And it's very different for when you're older. So then I tried dating App one and it was like a job. All. I felt like I had spent all the time on my phone, you know, being witty and being flirty. And at the time I would meet the guy and he wasn't anything that he said he was. They lied about their ages. They didn't look like their pictures. So that wasn't like a really positive experience. So I came home after being out that night with a friend, and I turned on the TV and they were doing a casting call for this Golden Bachelor. So I filled out the form because I thought it was like the universe talking to me.

[Jen]

Yeah, well, I will tell you, I was my sister, so I'm 56. My sister is 55. But a few years ago, maybe even like five years ago, but I remember she wrote an open letter to the Bachelor, the producers and whatever their corporate. She was so angry that there was not. She couldn't find herself represented on the Bachelor. And she's like, when are you going to do a show for women? And it has. I think it has a lot to do with what you talked about on the show, which is that feeling when you get older as a woman that you're invisible. And she felt really invisible and.

[Joan]

Yeah.

[Jen]

You know, so they never even responded to her. But, you know, she wrote this sort of. I don't know how angry it was, but it was. She was angry. Like, I don't want to only watch 23 year olds, you know. Yeah, look for love. Let's watch women our age.

[Jackie]

So what did your family think of it when you were, when you were cast? Were they happy about it? Upset? You know, not everybody likes to be thrust into the spotlight.

[Joan]

Very true. And like, that was my choice, not theirs to be in the spotlight. And they didn't particularly want to be in the spotlight, to be honest. And they also kind of like me. So when I was cast on the Golden Bachelor, like, it was the first ever of a golden series and you didn't really, like, know what it was going to look like. Like, are we going to look undignified? Are we going to look foolish? What are they going to make us do? Or what are they going to ask us to do? Is it going to be the same stuff that they ask the, you know, younger people to do, or is it going to be something different? Are they going to, you know, tailor it to us? So I was a little nervous going on the show. I actually had thoughts of not doing it. It took me, I came down to about the last day that they needed to know to say that I was going to do it because I was nervous. And then the first few days I was there, I kind of hung in the background. I didn't really jump to the front. I didn't be like, look at me, look at me. I hung way back because I still was kind of feeling it out. I didn't know. I didn't know the producers hardly at all other than the interaction I had, you know, prior to going on the show. You have a little interaction with them, but not a Lot. So I didn't really know. I wasn't confident that their intentions were completely good. They were making a TV show. I didn't know if they were really wanting us to find love or they just wanted to, you know, show old people dating. So it took me a little while to trust them, and when I did, I mean, it certainly was. I was completely wrong about that. They were very, very, very. Their intentions were very good, obviously, or I wouldn't have gone on the Golden Bachelorette, but, you know, it did take a little while. And same for my kids. You know, they. They weren't there. They didn't meet everybody. So when it finally came to it actually airing on tv, they all kind of stood back a little bit and hoping I didn't, you know, make myself look foolish. Yeah.

[Jen]

And we. I'm curious if. Did you want to be. I mean, Jackie and I, I. I went on to Jersey Housewives. I was, you know, 53. Jackie was way younger than that.

[Jackie]

But also 41.

[Jen]

Yeah, 41. But at 53, you know, it. It. What an adventure. And as I know, it has been for you as well. But did you want to be on tv? Was it. Were you somebody that had always. Because for us. Well, I mean, I don't want to speak for Jackie, but for me, yeah, I had kind of dreams of always being on.

[Jackie]

Yeah, I kind of wanted to. To see how it felt to be famous.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Joan]

Yeah.

[Jen]

You didn't have that.

[Joan]

Not really. So I was. Up till being on the show, I was kind of a shy person. I was a computer science major in college. I wrote code for a living, so I wasn't like an out there. I had a huge phobia of being on stage, which you saw on the Golden Bachelor. When I had to do the talent show, I was terrified getting up there, so. And it took me a little while to come into, like. Like where I am today with this whole thing, which I'm very comfortable with it. But I wasn't a person seeking, like, fame and wasn't. Wasn't dying to be on tv. I just didn't see another way of doing this. So, like, if. If I was stalled out at. On a dating app and meeting somebody organically and I still wanted to meet somebody, like, I had to do something different. And that just is what popped in on my TV that night. So I did it very brave. But it was uncomfortable. Riding over in the limo the first night, getting out, you know, at the Golden Bachelor, I was terrified. I almost, like, quit while I was on. While I was in the limo and, and I was the last person out of the limo. So of the 22 people, I was number 22. So I had this entire day and evening of this angst building up the whole day. I didn't get out of that limo until like 11:00 at night. I was, by the time I got out of there, I could hardly speak. So I was definitely not a natural. I was definitely not dying to be on tv.

[Jen]

And you knew nothing about him? There was no, nobody had given you any information at all?

[Joan]

She did. So he got introduced on, I think Good Morning America like a month before. Yeah, so he had been introduced. So we all knew a little, but he knew nothing about us. He had never, you know, our names don't get released so much later till actually we finish all the taping is when they finally, you know, say who we all are. But no. Yeah, so I did know who he was and a little bit about him.

[Jana Kramer]

This is Jana Kramer from Wind down with Jana Kramer. This podcast is brought to you by Kim Crawford Wines. As the holiday season brings us together, Kim Crawford invites you to add a touch of elegance to your gatherings. Whether you're hosting a festive dinner, a cozy get together with friends, or a new year celebration, make every moment amazing with a chilled glass of New Zealand's finest. Celebrate the joy of the season and create unforgettable memories with Kim Crawford Sauvignon Blanc, known for its vibrant blend of citrus, tropical fruit and crushed herbs. For a sparkling touch, enjoy Kim Crawford Prosecco. And for those looking to celebrate in a lighter and brighter way, try Kim Crawford Illuminate Sparkling, a lower alcohol sparkling wine that lets you savor amazing moments without compromise. Visit kimcrawerdwines.com to learn more and find Kim Crawford Wines near you. Savor Amazing for those 21 and over, please savor responsibly. Constellation Imports Rutherford, California Kim Crawford Illuminate sparkling wine is 7% alcohol by volume compared to Kim Crawford Prosecco at 11% alcohol by volume.

[NPR Life Kit Host]

Here at Life Kit NPR Self Help Podcast, we love the idea of helping you make meaningful lifestyle changes. Our policy is to never be too punishing on yourself or too grand in your goals, which is why we've got shows on how to make little nudges to your behavior and create habits that stick. Listen to the Life Kit podcast on iHeartRadio.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. The Daily show podcast has everything you need to stay on top of today's news and pop culture. You get hilarious satirical takes on entertainment, politics, sports, and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else, like extended interviews and a roundup of the weekly headlines. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jackie]

Joan, do you feel like, in a comparison of the two shows, so first you were part of a group of 22 women on the batch, the Golden Bachelor, and then you were the Golden Bachelorette with a group of around the same number of men. Do you feel like aging men and aging women were treated differently? Like the women that were in the first round, the 22 women. Do you feel like there was a sense of, well, the men are sexy, the women are just aging? I know you weren't treated like that on the show, but in social media. Do you get what I'm asking?

[Joan]

I definitely do, now that you've mentioned it. Like, I've had that feeling. And you verbalize it really well because you do, like, you know, they want to show the women as, like, they're active and they are, you know, they're vibrant still. But our, our season. So the 22 women skewed much older than the men from my Golden Bachelorette season. So the golden bachelor, he was 70 when he, you know, when our show aired, I was the youngest person on there. I was 60. And there were other 60 year olds, but then there were also people in well into their 70s. The oldest person was 75. Sandra was 75. So they skewed a lot older and we acted a little older or they didn't expect us to be as, you know, active or as vibrant. The men I felt like they depicted as, like, in fact, they didn't even talk about most of the women's professions very much or didn't talk about, like, their careers or, you know, we didn't really even talk about how we raised our families, partially because it was a much shorter season. There was only four weeks of the Golden Bachelor and my, my season was seven and a half weeks. So you got a lot more opportunity to meet the men. But I did feel like the men, they wanted to show them as being really fun, like, as having sense of humor and like walking around the mansion and commenting.

[Jen]

Yeah. I mean, again, I didn't really think about it then, but that was part of what was. Besides, of course, the fact that it was you. And that was, you know, Amazing in and of itself. But the men were so adorable and they were so connected. And you're right. Even though I. I felt like the women were connecting on the Bachelor, Golden Bachelor. But it definitely was different. And I didn't like. It's funny just to hear you say that out loud. I didn't really think. Yeah, but that's interesting.

[Joan]

But they had more time to, you know, introduce the man and get you. Allow you to get to know them more, which I think helped immensely. People, like, really connected to that with the men, and they really felt like their stories because they got to know them a little better. That wasn't true with the women. And the women. We've all talked about this. We have a big group chat. There's all 22 of us are on a group chat and. Oh, every once in a while. Yeah. And everyone's an opportunity to see, you know, a chunk of each other at a time. And we have that conversation. We said, you know, it was a little different because we. There was just so limited time. So there was only so much time. And also the episodes were only an hour long. The first, like, four episodes of the golden batch threat were an hour and a half or two hours.

[Jen]

Was it that on a technicality? Why did it happen like that?

[Joan]

I think it's because they weren't really sure if the show was going to be successful, so they weren't investing as much in it. Like, they didn't travel as much. They didn't. They didn't do a lot. They just wasn't as long.

[Jackie]

Yeah, you left early from the first season for a family emergency. Did you let the producers know that you wanted to come back in some capacity or how did they know that you were open to it?

[Joan]

So when I was leaving, it was proposed to me. They said, you know, a lot of times in these situations, I guess this has happened before. You know, people try to come back, or we'd like for you to have to come back, you know, to be able to come back. So I said I was open to it. I just had to see how things kind of went at home. And so I was in contact with them a lot between the time that I left and the time when it would been, like, logical for me to come back, which was I left on a Thursday. Maybe if I could get things better by that next Monday, which I wasn't able to. But then there was another chunk of time. So at that point, since it was such a quick season, the. They were already starting to go on hometowns. So as Gary was on Hometowns. I was still in contact with the producers to see if maybe I could come back after that. At that point, he had connected with somebody. Obviously it was with Teresa, but he had connected and maybe more, but he connected with somebody. And we kind of collectively decided that it wouldn't be good for me to come back at this point.

[Jen]

Did you have that feeling when you left? Like, I don't know. I only know what I saw. But where you were attached to Gary in that way, did you have that sort of heartbreaky feeling or. Because I look at you now with chalk, and I can't imagine if it had been you and Gary. You just seem to see it, you know, and I don't know if I even saw it. Then it was. But how. How hard was that to separate. Forget from the show, but. But from him.

[Joan]

Yeah, from here, personally. So it kind of was like a. A revelation moment up until that point. It had been about. At this point, about two and a half years since John had passed away, and I had never had any strong feelings about another man. I'd gone on many dates, none of them great, and he never had a feeling. I never had the idea that, okay, I actually see myself moving on. I was just kind of going through the motions with those other dates. So when I had that date with Gary that night, um, first of all, like, it felt very special because I won this talent competition, which was crazy, right? And. And it was just because I think I wrote this heartfelt poem, and then I got up there. I had the courage to get up there and actually say it. And I think that he just, you know, took pity on me a little bit. But I felt very flattered that. Yeah, and I felt very flattered that he picked me. So that kind of already made the date, like, a little more special. And then we really had great conversations because he was really good at that. He understood that, you know, the time that he gets to spend with each person is really important. And you have to have kind of important conversations. You can't just talk about, you know, you know, what's your dog's name, or, like, you know, what do you like to eat for dinner? Whatever You. You kind of move on, like, to family, you know, to your family and to, like, your dreams and what you look. Your future is going to look like and things like that. So we had these important conversations, and for the first time, I saw myself, like, in. As a couple. And even if it wasn't with him, I started realizing that I was going to be able to do that, like, my heart was going to be able to get there, because up until then, my head was the only part that was there. I knew I wanted it, but my heart hadn't followed yet. And at that point, my heart followed. And I don't know if it was with him at the time. You know, it was like. It just felt good. And when I said goodbye the next morning, it was painful. It really was. I felt like we had had a connection, you know, at this point, it's like a really good friendship. We are a really good friend still.

[Jen]

Really? You stay in touch?

[Joan]

Yeah. Yeah, we stay in touch. Yeah.

[Jen]

I can't help but think that he wanted you. He wanted to give it a try after him and Teresa broke up. I'm guessing.

[Joan]

I'm not gonna comment.

[Jen]

If I were him, I would have wanted to give it a try. Yeah. Okay. That's fine.

[Jackie]

So I. I know a lot of people who are getting divorced. I feel like at my age, I'm almost 50, a lot of marriages are dropping like flies around me. And I. And some of the people in the divorce mindset, like, you're looking for a clean slate. It's definitely hard, but, like, you're ready to try again and ready to have love again. I imagine it might be a little bit different when you lose someone that you're still in love with. So dating after becoming a widow might feel different. Did you have any kind of guilt or any kind of. Was it hard to.

[Joan]

To.

[Jackie]

To allow yourself to be in love again?

[Joan]

Yeah. So what? Great question. Because I didn't realize I had that guilt until I started having feelings for Chalk. So I thought, like, everything was good. My heart and my head had now finally figured out that they wanted the same thing and that I was moving forward. And I'm here now. I'm the golden Bachelorette. I'm totally committed. You know, I went on the show, like, feeling like I was really, really ready. And first, you know, couple of weeks, all good, you know, cruising along, and then I started feeling this terrible guilt. And. And I was like, how. And I felt like I was being not genuine to the men. I thought that I was now not being honest to them, because suddenly I felt like I wasn't ready. Like I wasn't ready for a relationship because I realized I was still and would always be in love with John. And I didn't know how to reconcile that. So I almost quit. So I had a conversation really like, you were.

[Jen]

You almost quit? How far were you into it when you felt like that week Three.

[Jackie]

And they must have been fre.

[Jen]

Do you tell the producers? They must have freaked out.

[Joan]

I did not. I talked to the psychiatrist.

[Jackie]

Jen quit our show four times the first season.

[Jen]

Yes, exactly.

[Joan]

You go, girl. I. I talked to the psychiatrist. So I. First of all, I was really tired. So we had been filming for about three weeks, and I go on a bunch of dates and, you know, it's all really emotional. And you also are getting very tired. You know, you're not sleeping in the regular place. You're dating a lot of men. It's a lot of work. And I was just getting really, really tired at this point. Like, it all kind of hit one day. And so I asked to speak to the psychiatrist. There's two of them that's always available or on set with the contestants. And then they are also available to the, you know, the main. So they came into my room and I was like, I don't know if I can keep doing this. I'm still in love with like. Like, how do you do this? And they go, well, why do you think you have to not be in love with John? And I go, because how do you. Like, I. These are men. They expect me to fall in love with them. You know, one of them does. And they said, well, you can still do that. They said, picture it like this. Picture that John is a balloon in this hand and this other person is a balloon in this hand, and you don't have to let go of this one to hold onto this one. That there's room for both of them in your heart. And it was like the free pass. I needed, like, all. That's all they needed to say to me. I was like, oh, so I don't have to be in love with John because I don't think I can ever not be in love with them. And they said, no, you're fine. That doesn't have to happen. And in fact, it would be weird if it did.

[Jackie]

I love that.

[Jen]

Do you have discussions with John when he was sick?

[Joan]

Yeah. Well, I didn't want to because I was in denial, total denial that he was going to die. In fact, I thought he was the one person that survives pancreatic cancer. Um, and I was just being naive and I just wasn't watching what was happening around me. He had gone from being about 220 pounds to 120 pounds and he was just, you know, wasting away in front before my eyes. And he knew he was dying, but I just wasn't going to accept it. I wasn't going to talk about It. I was picking him to appointments, and we were flying to MD Anderson to get him care down, you know, in Texas. And we were doing everything we could do to help him, you know, survive this, but one day he was really sick, and he was laying on the sofa and he was sleeping on and off all day, and he called me over and he's like, sit down next to me. Pat's right next to him. And he takes my hand and he said, you were the best wife ever. And we had a great life together, and I don't want you to be alone. I want you to find somebody when I'm gone. And I said, I am not having this conversation with you. I said, you are not going anywhere. And I was mad that he was saying that to me, and I was like, I was just ignoring it and. But I. And I kind of forgot about that conversation for a little while. And it came back to me one day when I was so really, really in a morning, you know, stage. And I remember him saying that, and I was like, what a gift. That was. What a gift that I. I didn't know he was giving me such a gift because I'm not sure if I could have done this whole thing if he hadn't given me that. That gift, but he did, and. And I really, really, really, like, leaned on that a lot as I was moving through this whole thing, you know, as I was on the show and falling in love.

[Jackie]

Right. So that's really. Yeah, I'm like crying, you know, you.

[Jen]

Think if it was you. If it was, God forbid, you. I mean, you think about the person.

[Jackie]

I would love, I would do that.

[Jen]

Think about them alone. And it's heartbreaking, right? You don't want them alone.

[Joan]

No, it's.

[Jackie]

After you and Chalk fell in love and got engaged. How did you hide that relationship? Do they give you, like, parameters for what you're allowed to do?

[Joan]

Yeah, they pretty much say, you cannot tell anybody, you know, because we want. And we didn't want to tell anybody. We want, like, we want everybody to watch the show, obviously, so if it leaks out, you know, that kind of spoils the ending. So we certainly were really careful about who we told to. Obviously, our families knew, and I had a couple close friends, but after that, you don't tell anybody. But Batcher is really, really good about making sure you have time to, you know, spend time together because, you know, you still. You've been, you know, living this kind of, you know, life in a bubble when you're filming. And so it's Kind of a false reality. So. And even though, you know, until you actually get announced at the finale, you're still living in a little bit of false reality, they give you time away from cameras. So we got. They call them happy couple visits, and we got five of them. And so they.

[Jackie]

My husband loves happy couple visits.

[Joan]

So that's what you call them. Got it. So they fly. They flew us to la and they put you up in like, an Airbnb for four or five days at a time. You can't leave. You go into disguise. You fly to different airports and they just put you up in a house. And so. And you get to know each other. So they bring you groceries. You can rent.

[Jackie]

Amazing. I had no idea.

[Joan]

It's so fun.

[Jen]

You have an adventure.

[Joan]

It's so fun. It's like going on vacation like, every other week. It's so fun. And we had, like, a pool. We had a tennis court at one of the places we played tennis. We did puzzles. We had a chance.

[Jen]

Was it weird to transition from having so much chaos to just you? I would have been nervous just like, now. What is this going to look like? Right? Is it going to translate?

[Joan]

The first happy couple visit I was super nervous about. So we hadn't. So the first one didn't happen until September, and we had gotten engaged in early August, and we had a whole month of just kind of talking on the phone. So that first day, he got to. Did I get to the house? Oh, I got to the house first and he came about a couple hours later. And I was so nervous. I'm like, what does it.

[Jen]

Nervous even hearing you say it? Yeah. Scary.

[Joan]

It was. So I. I had a bottle of wine open already, and he pulls it simple in the driveway in his car. And all these places have gates, so you like you when you get out, nobody can see who's getting out, whatever. So they close the gate and then he gets out of the car and I meet him at the door and I have a glass of wine for him. I have my glass of wine and it's like early evening. And we immediately were back to where we were before. So that month was like nothing. It was like we were right back and we had a great dinner and we talked, we laughed, and we started watching our Netflix series. And, like, everything was perfect.

[Jackie]

And it must have felt so good to be able to finally tell the world and get back out there and. And be open about everything.

[Joan]

It was so good.

[Jana Kramer]

This is Jana Kramer from Wine down with Jana Kramer. This podcast is brought to you by Kim Crawford Wines as the holiday season brings us together, Kim Crawford invites you to add a touch of of elegance to your gatherings. Whether you're hosting a festive dinner, a cozy get together with friends, or a new year celebration, make every moment amazing with a chilled glass of New Zealand's finest. Celebrate the joy of the season and create unforgettable memories with Kim Crawford Sauvignon Blanc, known for its vibrant blend of citrus, tropical fruit and crushed herbs. For a sparkling touch, enjoy Kim Crawford Prosecco, and for those looking to celebrate in a lighter and brighter way, try Kim Crawford Illuminate Sparkling, a lower alcohol sparkling wine that lets you savor amazing moments while without compromise. Visit Kim Crawford wines.com to learn more and find Kim Crawford Wines near you. Savor Amazing for those 21 and over, please savor responsibly. Constellation Imports, Rutherford, California Kim Crawford Illuminate sparkling wine is 7% alcohol by volume compared to Kim Crawford Prosecco at 11% alcohol by volume.

[NPR Life Kit Host]

Here at Life Kit, NPR's self help podcast, we love the idea of helping you make meaningful lifestyle changes. Our policy is to never be too punishing on yourself or too grand in your goals, which is why we've got shows on how to make little nudges to your behavior and create habits that stick. Listen to the Life Kit podcast on iHeartRadio.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. The Daily Show Show Podcast has everything you need to stay on top of today's news and pop culture. You get hilarious satirical takes on entertainment, politics, sports, and more from John and the team of correspondents and contributors. The podcast also has content you can't get anywhere else, like extended interviews and a roundup of the weekly headlines. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jackie]

I know that on our show social media can sometimes be really, really tough.

[Jen]

On you, so always be.

[Jackie]

I want to know how it's been not only for you in terms of being an aging woman. Like we both get a lot of comments about our looks as aging women, but I want to know about that part. But also protecting chalk from you know, you chose him out of the 22, I assume men and and you know, you really can't protect him, this person that you love now from what comes what comes at him because you chose him. And I know that's really hard. I've dealt with that on our show as well. So how has the social media been for you? How do you handle it?

[Joan]

So social media, the day I got announced was at these things called the upfronts in New York City. And sitting next to me was Lisa Vanderpump. And she says, I have a piece of advice for you. She said, do not listen to social media. She said, it will destroy you. She said, it took me years to take my own advice. She goes, and I'm so much happier now.

[Jen]

Do you know who she was? By the way, did you watch Housewives?

[Joan]

Yes, exactly. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I love Lisa.

[Jen]

I love her.

[Joan]

She's so cool. I want to be here when I grow.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Joan]

So that was, like, great advice, except for I didn't really listen to it because I was like, oh, yeah, yeah. You're, like, really popular. You have a lot of people that know you. I'm not going to be that person. But sure enough, like, the minute I came off the show, as the show aired, so when you're first, like, kind of cast, like, a lot of people don't have opinions about it. I didn't get a lot of. A lot of responses to things. But eventually, once the show started airing, that's when all the mean people kind of came out. So if I had a hundred comments on a post or something, 95 would be really nice, 5 would be awful. And the awful ones are so much meaner than the nice ones that those.

[Jackie]

And they're the ones you remember, too.

[Joan]

Remember that word for word. And, like, why, you know, and saying things like you treated the men so poorly and you didn't give them a chance to talk, and you know how ugly I am and why do use so much filler? And you can't move your lip and all this, like, mean stuff. So. And you, your hair extensions are terrible. And like, they attack you, like, the way you look, they attack you, the way you act. They. Luckily, they never really brought my family into it. So if they brought my family into it, I would have been like, mama bear. And I would have, like, I don't know what I would have done, but they were really nice. Chalk didn't get attacked until about mid season when he started looking a bit like a villain. Although nobody really on my season looked like a villain, but he was becoming, you know, like, we had a kind of a thing by mid season and we were spending a lot more time with each other, and I think some of the men were like, hey, give us a chance. So he kind of looked like maybe he was being a Little possessive. And so a lot of that has to do with editing also, as you probably know. So he kind of started getting attacked then. And I feel bad about that because although he signed up to the show just like I did, so unlike your families, because you were in the Housewives, they didn't sign up for it. And so you probably felt a little more protective. I knew that he knew what he was getting into and that we all signed up for this. And I knew in the end, as the season progresses, he was going to be, you know, end up looking like a really good guy, like the guy he really is. But there were just some, you know, some editing that happened that made him look not, you know, maybe gave him a bad edit at points.

[Jen]

I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you.

[Joan]

No, go ahead.

[Jen]

No, go to being younger and having to handle that. Like, I think. Yeah, you know, just like. Just like you. I. At the beginning and then I only did two seasons of Jersey Housewives, but the second season, I certainly got a lot more the negative comments than I did the first season. But again, I started. I was 53. I'm 56 now. And I think that if I had been younger like most women are when they start out on the Housewives, I think I would have had a much harder time. You never want to hear nasty things about yourself, but at a certain age, and I think that's why I love the Golden Bachelor and the Golden Bachelorette so much. You are. One great thing about aging is you know who you are, and you've been through stuff. You've been through real stuff. And in my mind, you have even more to offer the world in terms of being on television. I'm a little, you know, I'm a little biased in this area, but I think that I am too.

[Joan]

Now.

[Jen]

People have. Have more almost sometimes to offer, but, you know, dealing with it when you're 20 something or even early 30s, and I, it's. I can't even imagine. You have to have a very strong sense of self to be able to handle all of that.

[Joan]

Totally agree with you.

[Jackie]

Did any of the social comments make you feel like, well, maybe I should do this, or maybe I should do this to fix, you know, what they were talking about. I think you're stunning and perfect. But, you know, I got off my show and I was like, oh, God, I need a nose job and a facelift and hair transplants and, you know.

[Joan]

Yeah, all those things. Yeah, I think all of those. I, like, I stand in my. In my mirror and I go like this and go, I could look a lot better. And you know, I'm the same. And like you said for a young person, like how destroying that would be. Like, I, like, I can accept like my aging. Okay, so this is what I'm going to look like. I'm going to, you know, fight this as hard as I can, but eventually, you know, it's going to. It's going to win. When you're young and you're feeling like that, you don't, you know, I can do this gracefully. I feel like when you're young, you don't have. You don't give yourself that kind of break. You're like, oh, my God, this look like I got to do something a lot of years. Like I live with the space or whatever or this body. I can't imagine. Which is why I feel like social media is so damaging to like, think about a 13 or 14 year old.

[Jen]

I know.

[Joan]

And right. They're not on TV. They're just going to school every day and they're getting attacked. So, like, when we put ourselves on tv, we know what we're signing up for and we can choose to look at the stuff or not choose to look at this stuff. And, you know, we could just go off the show. These kids are just out there living. They're just going to school every day and they're just trying to make friends and they're trying to figure out who they are in the world and they are not, like, prepared for it like we are. They don't. They're not signing up for this. It's just being the rest of them.

[Jen]

Did you watch the Bachelor and the Bachelorette? The. You did. You did.

[Joan]

Interesting.

[Jen]

Yeah.

[Joan]

And I do see that that mean girl behavior is like so disappointing. And I feel like, so I feel like many years ago when the Bachelor started, that wasn't part of it. People were nice to each other and it gradually over the years became more of a problem. And it came a problem with the first with the girls and then with the guys. And that happened over several seasons. And I think it reset. Yeah. Little kind of housewife. And I feel like it needs a reset and I don't know how to make that happen. I was hoping that maybe golden, give it a little reset. People would start looking at and say, it can look like this, but it never hasn't got one. It just. It almost escalates every year or every.

[Jen]

That's why everyone loved Golden Bachelor and Bachelorettes. It was not like that. I mean, there was some. Some Little petty, funny things on the Bachelor and then the Bachelorette. I just saw these men. It was, it was, and it was, it was more fun to watch. At least that's how I feel about it than watching, you know, the nastiness.

[Jackie]

So now you're engaged, you're in love with chalk, and then comes in like public scrutiny of your relationship. Has that affected you guys?

[Joan]

Yeah, I look at like this, I look at the kind of publications every day to see like what's out. And it's funny, it changes from day to day. Like I'll get screen rant and like one day it'll say, oh, they're solid and they're good. They're going to get married and the next day to say they're on the road to separating and they're not together anymore and whatever. Well, by the way, I'm here in Maryland. Chuck is right in the other room. He's working and it is working. It's fine. But like, they just take little hints from stupid things, you know, like we weren't together on my birthday. Well, we'd seen each other the week before. We were seeing each other the week after. Just we. He needed to work. I had things I needed to do. You know, I'm 62. Like my birthday isn't, like, I'm not a four year old where birthdays, you know, you got to be together that day. So, you know, they took that and ran with it. So, you know, the public scrutiny is ridiculous and it's, it's not true. And we do feel a little bit of an obligation to post now together whenever we're together just to validate that we are still together. But I know it's, you know, people invested in this journey and so to leave them at the curb and say we're not going to, you know, show you how we're doing is not the right thing to do. But for you, for like the, you know, the publications to assume that we're not good because we're not posting every other day is ridiculous. We were just not together every other day. We're together like every other week or every three weeks. And we're. But we're still. Just because we're not posting doesn't mean we're not together.

[Jen]

Love, right?

[Jackie]

No, I love, I love that you guys seem very good at not letting it affect your relationship and what you know is real.

[Joan]

Yeah.

[Jen]

What do you guys see yourself doing now with all of this? I mean, everyone always asks Jackie and I, not just us, but, but anybody that's Been on reality tv. Like, now you have this platform. Where do you see this going from here? And I don't mean in terms of your relationship. I mean just in terms of, do you, you know, has this opened up doors for you? Do you want it to open doors for you? Do you want this to translate into other potentially career opportunities?

[Joan]

Yeah, I, I, I never expected this. So I hadn't put any thought into any of this until after kind of the season ended. And I thought, well, you know, there, you know, we. I was asked to do a lot of interviews, and people want to hear this story, and it's different than a younger dating story. And that was kind of part of my goal when I went on the show, was to not, like, I knew it was about me finding love, but I felt like there were all these other people that were my age and maybe a little younger and a little older, but in the same weird boat of finding themselves, being single at this, you know, kind of second half of their life. And I wanted to represent that whole group. Not it just be about me, but it'd be about all these people and give people hope and, like, show that it's possible and it can be fun, it can be dignified, and you shouldn't feel guilty. And all those things, all those feelings that I was feeling, I just, like, put them right, right out so I could, you know, actually maybe, like, be an example to people that are thinking about doing it. So I, I'd love to continue that, like, you know, whatever that looks like. If it's podcast or if it's TV or if it's a book or if it's none of those things, it is what it is. I got, honestly, exactly what I wanted from this. I found my fiance. I found the second love of my life. So if nothing comes of it, I got exactly why I went on the show. But if something, you know, more comes of it, I, you know, I would welcome the opportunity.

[Jackie]

Yeah, I love it. Do you think you guys will get married? I know everyone has to do that, but yeah, yeah.

[Joan]

You know, when I went on the show, I was not actually looking necessarily to get married. I don't feel like I don't have a biological clock. I'm having kids, you know, we're not merging. I don't know. We're just. I didn't see a need to get married, and I actually didn't even see a need to get engaged. I said when I went on the show, I wanted to find a person that I wanted to explore being together with. But not necessarily needing to get engaged that maybe that would have been too quick. I figured out as I was going through this that Chuck and I matched up in pretty amazing ways, and I felt like I really knew him. So getting engaged didn't feel weird, even though it was really, really quick. And getting married now doesn't feel weird either. Like, you know, I was married for 32 years and I loved it. And so, like, why would I not want to get married? Like, what's the point of not getting married? It's.

[Jackie]

Right. The show approached you about doing it on tv.

[Joan]

They have. No.

[Jen]

No yet.

[Joan]

No. No.

[Jen]

I think that.

[Joan]

I also think that we all kind of maybe learned a lesson from Gary and Theresa that maybe that was too quick and they probably don't want to make that mistake again. And I certainly not in any rush to get married. I am actually really happy right now. Just not have anything to do. You know, he and I were doing, you know, some press. Stop. We're going to go on Drew Barrymore on Thursday. We get to do really fun things. Yeah. So we get to do really fun things. We're going to go to a golf tournament in LA. I mean, out in Carmel. IHeartRadio is treating us, and so we get to do some really, really fun things. Like planning a wedding right now seems like it would be, like, a lot of work. So I'm just going to. We're just having fun right now, and I will plan a wedding and we will get married, and it will be for the world to see if they want to see it, or it'll just be our private little thing with our families. However it works out, we will get married, but I'm just not sure when.

[Jackie]

And are you guys still getting a place together in New York?

[Joan]

Mm, we were there last week and actually going tomorrow again. We keep looking. The inventory is pretty low, and it'll apparently loosen up some in the spring. So.

[Jackie]

Okay. So once you're settled in, me and Jen are only like 15 minutes away. We're right over the border in Jersey. So we'll come in, we'll sit at a bar with you and have dinner.

[Jen]

Yeah, I would love.

[Joan]

That would be so funny. I have no friends there. Very few friends in New York.

[Jackie]

Now you have two more. Here are your friends. Thank you. Okay, this is really, really fun. Anything else you would want people to know about you or your experience? Experience or chalk.

[Joan]

So I probably should, like, finish up. The family ended up actually loving this for me and actually for them, and they love chalk. And my grandkids My granddaughter, who's only 14 months old, says, where's Chalk? Where? Chalk. Wherever she's. Whenever, like, I FaceTime her.

[Jackie]

So cute.

[Joan]

I know. And last time Chalk was leaving, my grandson said, I don't want that guy to go. So everybody loves Chalk, and the families are all good. His kids are amazing. They came and spent Thanksgiving here, and I got to spend New Year's Eve with his son in Kansas. So all is good. All is good with families.

[Jen]

I think that what I. I love about this the most is that you really did do what Jackie and I talk about all the time, which is, you know, bring not only visibility to women and men of a certain age. So. Right. So that feeling of being invisible to really sort of challenge that, but also to show that after a certain age, you're not done. You are. And not just not done with life. You're not done with feeling sexy or wanting to connect or feel good about yourself. Like, you know, the idea that sort of. I think there's so much ageism in our world and in our country, and I absolutely love that the folks at the Bachelor, you know, knew that this was important. I mean, I think there are lots of areas that they can even expand it into.

[Joan]

Whatever.

[Jen]

I won't go. I won't go off on a tangent, but I think that it's such a great thing that I think women and men of all ages want to watch you. I want to watch these guys. I want to watch these gals. You know, it's like. And see. And still get that feeling of excitement watching two people of a certain age connect in that way. It's such a breakthrough.

[Joan]

So. I know. So, like, people would be like, oh, it's not gross.

[Jen]

Exactly.

[Joan]

Exactly. It's like. It does. It's not gross if you kiss somebody.

[Jen]

Thank you.

[Joan]

Yeah. And it's. And it's not icky seeing, like, the guys in me in a bathing suit.

[Jen]

So, you know, thank you.

[Joan]

It doesn't have to be a gross thing. Like, the stereotypes, it's time. They're broken. We're not our grandparents. We are way different.

[Jen]

Amen, sister.

[Jackie]

And I feel like it's chipping. I feel like we're chipping away at that. You know?

[Joan]

I agree with you. Yeah.

[Jackie]

But this.

[Jen]

I'd like to see the next one be more inclusive in terms of sizes. That always kind of bugged me with the Bachelor. Not necessarily Golden Bachelor, but, like, I was always like, you know, they're. They were cookie cutter. It looked very cookie cutter to me in terms of Body size anyway.

[Joan]

Said that to me. Someone said that to me. I'm golden. They said, why is everybody size two and wealthy? And I'm like, you have no. I went back at her. I usually don't answer those. I just let them go. And I went back at this girl. I said, you have no idea what you're talking about. Look at the body types on golden voucher. Not everybody was a size 2. Not everybody did Botox. Not everybody was wealthy. I said, you have no idea the backgrounds of these women. I mean, we had teachers there. We had women who didn't work. We had stay at home moms. We had a fitness instructor. Multi women. We were wealthy. Size 2 women carry Birkin bags. It's not true.

[Jen]

Yeah, more. I mean, more the Bachelor, not the golden one. That just all these. Everybody is. Just has this rock and body and they're always in bikinis and that's fine. And I love it too. And I love watching and you know, it's. Let's say it's aspirational, but I would love to see, I don't know, some more differently. Agree. Yeah, I totally agree.

[Joan]

They'd have one on Gen season, a guy on Gen season that everybody fell in love with. He was a, like, maybe a little heavier. He was just. He was absolutely adorable. And he. He was real popular. But she let him go kind of early in the journey, which I felt bad because he was like a fan favorite.

[Jen]

Right, right. Yeah, just. And more women like that. But anyway, sorry, I'm getting off on a little moving in the.

[Jackie]

Right.

[Jen]

Yes, yes.

[Joan]

We could talk all day about what they should do.

[Jen]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jackie]

Joan, thank you so much for coming. We love talking to you and this was really inspirational and. And wishing you and chalk, you know, just a lifetime of happiness together.

[Joan]

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. And I look forward to our dinner in New York City, the six of.

[Jen]

Us, maybe just the three of us. I don't know. We'll decide. We'll figure it out.

[Joan]

The more the merrier.

[Jen]

Thank you so much talking to you guys.

[Joan]

Thank you.

[Jen]

Be well.

[Jackie]

Bye to amazing. I'm in love with her. That was amazing.

[Jen]

You know, I do feel like she is so beautiful and I don't know, there's something that always. I just. I want them. I'm hoping that they'll do not even a golden Bachelor, but because I think they are inclusive, but like a Bachelor where not everyone is so gorgeous.

[Jackie]

Well, I mean, you could still be gorgeous and look different, but I don't hear what you're saying. But.

[Jen]

But it wasn't like that for the Golden Bachelor or Bachelor. They had people of all different shapes and sizes, which I love.

[Jackie]

Right.

[Jen]

More like on the Bachelor. But she is.

[Jackie]

I loved. I love what she said about the balloon. Like holding the balloon in each hand. That makes so much sense. And you know, that I imagine it must be so hard. I lost two family members to pancreatic cancer. One was my mother's mother. And like, it's such a painful. With painful journey. I mean, it doesn't feel quick when you're going through it, but it's. You just watch someone go so quickly, and I. I can't imagine how hard that would be. So I'm so. I'm so happy that she feels like she has permission from. From her husband, from the universe to try again and to be in love again, you know, because you get one life more complicated.

[Jen]

Like when you have young kids, right? Like I picture, God forbid, but. Well, there are people there and they know they're dying. And then you have to picture your partner with someone else, and then you picture your kids with another parent. Is getting very morbid very quickly. But it's all very, very complicated.

[Jackie]

I feel like, listen, it's part of getting older and it's.

[Jen]

But you'd want your kids also to have another loving parent, right? You'd want your kids, but your kids.

[Jackie]

Also want their parent to be happy. You know, it's not something you realize when you are a child. But now that I'm older, I mean, my parents, they're still married. They haven't lived together in 25 years. But when I was a kid, they fought all the time. And as much as I never wanted them to separate, I. I wished that they were happier, you know, and they're happy now. They're actually, I think, happily. More happily married now than they were when I was younger.

[Jen]

Maybe that's the answer.

[Jackie]

Maybe it's just living separately.

[Jen]

Exactly.

[Jackie]

Evan, get the hell out. Okay.

[Jen]

Right.

[Jackie]

So this was fabulous. I miss your face. I haven't seen you in a little bit, so we'll plan something when we get off of here. But this was great. She was the perfect guest and I loved it.

[Jen]

Me too. Thanks, you guys. Thank you so much for listening.

[Jackie]

Thanks, guys. See you next time.

[Jen]

Bye.

[Ashley Iaconetti]

This is Ashley Akonetti from the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast. This podcast is brought to you by Kim Crawford Wines. This time of year is perfect to enjoy surrounded by loved ones. Make it special with a chilled glass of New Zealand's finest Kim Crawford Sauvignon Blanc or Kim Crawford Illuminate Sauvignon Blanc, a lower alcohol wine that's perfect for any occasion. Visit kimcrawerdwines.com to learn more. For those 21 and over, savor responsibly. Constellation Imports, Rutherford, California Kim Crawford Illuminate Sauvignon Blanc wine is 7% alcohol by volume compared to Kim Crawford sauvignon blanc at 12.5 alcohol by volume. Visit kim crawfordwines.com to learn more.

[Jon Stewart]

Jon Stewart is back in the host chair at the Daily show, which means he's also back in our ears on the Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Join late night legend Jon Stewart and the best news team for today's biggest headlines, exclusive extended interviews and more. Now this is a second term we can all get behind. Listen to the Daily Show Ears edition on the ice iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[NPR Life Kit Host]

Here at Life Kit, NPR's Self Help podcast, we love the idea of helping you make meaningful lifestyle changes. Our policy is to never be too punishing on yourself or too grand in your goals, which is why we've got shows on how to make little nudges to your behavior and create habits that stick. Listen to the Life kit podcast on iHeartradio.