← UFO Chronicles Podcast
UFO Chronicles Podcast
Ep.253 Black Triangle In West Dulwich (Throwback)
01:11:17
Throwbacks are where I re-release old episodes from the archives. So don't worry if you have heard it already, as 'New episodes' will continue to come out on Sundays. To get some of the old episodes heard. ~~~ For this episode, we meet Ben from...
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- [00:01]
A
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- [00:04]
B
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- [00:31]
C
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D
Refreshers contain caffeine.
- [01:01]
E
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A
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- [02:02]
C
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D
Refreshers contain caffeine.
- [02:31]
E
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- [03:02]
D
UWA517, do you want to report a UFO? Negative. We don't want to report. Aries31, do you wish to report a UFO?
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A
Hover?
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B
Negative.
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D
We want to report one of those either.
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A
Ares 31, do you wish to file
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D
a report of any kind of it? I wouldn't know what kind of report was. Cloud Center Area 31, me neither. 71 Papa Golf, go ahead. There was anybody that above us that passed us like 30 seconds ago? There was. 71 PO Golf, negative.
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B
Okay.
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D
UFO. Yeah, it's merged.
- [03:40]
E
295.
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D
Yeah, something just passed over like a. Don't know what it was, but it's at least two, 3,000ft above us. Yeah, it passed right over the top of us. 911, you guys busy? We just called about the meal for. They're out there making airplanes. Okay, Bob, I swear to God. Four calls in on an unidentified object over liberty. Four calls. Four calls on an unidentified flying object. All right, we'll check it out.
- [04:17]
F
Welcome to UFO Chronicles, a place where people share their experiences of the strange and unexplained. If you've had an encounter and would like to be on the show, you can email me@ufocroniclesmail.com. Hello everyone and welcome to the show. How are you all? I'm Nick Hunter and this is the UFO Chronicles podcast. Tonight we're in the United Kingdom to speak to Ben. And Ben will be sharing a couple of his UFO sightings. He also had a psychic mum who was a believer and she met a NASA employee in the 1970s who said he saw alien artifacts on the moon. Ben is up next. But first, if you enjoy the show and you would like to help support the podcast on Patreon, you can do this for as little as $1 a month. Head on over to www.patreon.com ufocrhronicles podcast. You can also find a link in the description of this episode below. Any help is very much appreciated. Now on with. Hello, Ben. Welcome to the show.
- [05:57]
D
Hello, nice to speak to you. Thanks for having me on.
- [05:59]
F
You're more than welcome. Thank you for joining us today. And you're calling from the uk?
- [06:04]
D
Yes, indeed. Yeah, in Somerset. Beautiful part of England. Not far from from Glastonbury. Beautiful place.
- [06:10]
F
Beautiful. Famous for music festivals and cider.
- [06:13]
D
Yeah, indeed. And who. Who knows, maybe. Maybe UFOs as well. But yeah, I'm actually some. Be specific. I'M I'm in a place called Nether Stowy, which is famous for the poet Samuel Taylor Coleridge, who is very imaginative, one of the great, great artists of our time and thinkers. And I'm also a stone's throw away from Hinckley Point as well, which is quite interesting as well as a, as a possible UFO hotspot, I guess. But yeah, it's a bit. It's an amazing place, Somerset. One of the best places in the country.
- [06:42]
F
I agree. Lovely. Okay, Ben, you have some experiences to share. Would you like to start at the beginning please, sir?
- [06:48]
D
Yeah, absolutely. Well, my approach to the whole subject is quite, comes from a myriad of angles really. I as a kid was always very, very interested in ufology and science fiction to a degree, but I was never like a, a mad sort of sci fi geek kind of kid. I came of it very much from a novel angle because my, my great grandma was unusual character. She, my grandmother, she was very old mum. She sort of brought me up for most of my childhood and she was psychic and she didn't take money for it, but she was great. She was like a Palmer. She, she knew dates, names, all sorts, very accurate. And she used to read an Isaac Asimov a day. She was very much into science fiction, but she also had a deep love of actual ufology. So there'll be Zachariah Stitching or Sitting or HP Lovecraft, but there'd also be, you know, Von Daniken and, and people like that Morning, the Magicians, Holy Blood and Holy Grail, Book Communion, you know, that also in the bookshelves that piqued my interest. And so she was more than open to it all being real, not, you know, being make believe. So. And also when she'd watch things like Close Encounters, I remember asking, you know, I remember seeing that as a kid perhaps a bit earlier than most would. And she definitely introduced me to a different perspective with it that perhaps most kids, you know, wouldn't have. That's perhaps a bit more typical nowadays where, you know, you're joining the dots between the science fiction and reality and it being a possibility and not just make believe. And really from quite a young age I believe that there was a possibility. So that on one side I was into things like, like 7 Doctor who, things like that. But in that were fun. I also very much was into to an extent. Obviously we didn't have the Internet then, you know, kind of, as I say, things like Morning magicians, the whole area of Von Daniken, Chariots of the Gods. Now she got her interest, I think, from my great grandfather, who was a tailor or mills, sorry, Mills, not a manning. And he was out in Russia during revolution, was a sailor. He was a local counsellor for a little while in East London and was popular there as well. And a teacher, very wise man. And a sailor for a while, musician and teacher, as I say. And he traveled, as I say, New Orleans during the jazz boom. And he, I think, was. He filled her with lots of interesting ideas. I don't know if he was a believer in ufology, but he knew H.G. wells for a while because he was part of the Fabian Society, even though he didn't come from money. He was deeply intellectual and I guess he talked his way in and he got to know them all and people like, as I say, H.G. wells and. And as a result, because he's quite a lefty, as a result, he, I think again, you know, because war of the worlds and everything really won me old mum's imagination. And I think living in a household, well, on the other side of things, the actual mum was quite cynical about it, though. She was interested, but not really a believer. So I saw it from different perspectives, which is, after all, what life's like. But it was, as I say, just really, really fascinating to me. I remember a show called the Boy From Space, which probably most people have forgotten, you might remember it was on many years ago that was very sort of uncanny in the way that it depicted the whole area of aliens visiting Earth. And it just. All these shows would win my imagination. But I also had a real interest, as I say, that I think came from my male mum and the family to an extent. But I did have a few sightings in my childhood, particularly in my teens, and a bit of a nervous breakdown in my teens when we folks moved to Somerset. But I do remember seeing, you know, floating orbs or lights that would shoot off and that really, then I knew that, hold on, there's more to this than just, you know, me being interested, watching too many sci fi shows or something, you know, I couldn't have imagined that. And I think that was the connection with the same old mum, because she was into conspiracies before they became fashionable and then unfashionable and now dangerous. I mean, you have to be careful, you tell. But in the old days when it was just a bit of fun. Absolutely. You know, and. And for years and years I'd follow these stories and obviously with the Internet, it's opened it up a bit more. But then you don't always Know, always use your trust because obviously at the moment with, with ufology, you've got, you know, so much information coming at us all the time, whether it's podcasts with real accounts that are genuine or, or perhaps more money making exercises coming at it from an entertainment angle. That's where things obviously like coast to coast come in. They're great fun. A lot of people on those shows are probably genuine, but also it can be just sort of more entertainment, perhaps closer to the sci fi than the reality, so to speak. But yeah, I mean, through my life I've just always had the interest, the same old mum used to collect newsletters and send off for handouts and things or that she'd get all about conspiracies and a lot of it would be alien stuff. And, and that's how, as I said, I picked up on a lot, lot of it also in the 70s because my great, as I say, my great grandfather who knew H.D. wells, he was a Mills, as I say, but in the 70s she, she met an employee of NASA actually when she was running a BNB for a short while in London in the 70s, and he told her that he'd seen proof, I don't know if he was for photographs or what, of alien life or previous visits by humanity to the moon. I'm not quite sure what it was. Which actually reminds one a lot of that old H.G. wells. The first men on the Moon. One of my favorite films when I was a child, funnily enough. But she would sort of recount that to me and I was like, wow. You know, obviously, I mean, this was something my mom, who's not really a believer, would also tell me about and say, well, yeah, he definitely missed, definitely happened. And so growing up with those influences, as I say, always sort of piqued my interest, got me really fascinated in the whole subject. And I mean, I live in a UFO hot spot now, so see, as I said earlier, near a nuclear power station, Glastonbury. And occasionally, you know, you do see sightings. It's possible to see the odd mysterious light. But the best sighting I've had in, in recent years was actually last year. I had two. One was in recent years, most notable one was in West Dullard, which was last October when I think, you know, to be honest, from listening to a lot of kind of encounter shows and podcasts and things, one can easily, as I was living on my own at that point as well, which I think helps. No real influences. I think as a result I was really, really into it. I was also working from home and talking to the old friends about it, but not ever really talking to anyone that was dead and set against it. So perhaps I was very much normalizing it in my own head. I've often wondered, what was it? It seems like I made it happen almost, but I didn't hallucination. It was quite extraordinary. I left the house, I walked. I was just literally walking past west side train station and this sort of pretty big black triangle came over and it was making a whirring noise, which makes me wonder if it was a military. But there were people there and they weren't looking up, which I couldn't understand. I tried to grab a rather clumsy photo that didn't come out very well, which is what they all say. I kind of can understand how that happens now, because when you actually see something and you've kind of wanted to see it and it actually happens, you can't believe it's actually happening for a minute. And so I can imagine that that's, you know. I know a lot of the cynics say, oh, yeah, they're just making it up. But honestly, I can see how it happens. You get a sort of freeze body, freeze for a second where you're so excited. And so to this day, I wish I'd videoed it. But as I say, it may have been military, but it wasn't extraordinary. Very impressive. I'd love to think it was the real thing, so to speak. And as I say, it flew over West Sullis train station. I felt like Arthur Dent. It felt like something out of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. It was a bit surreal, to be honest. It was an amazing moment. A few years earlier, I also had something. I was over flying over the Grand Canyon, completely different part of the world. This is when I was working. Even though I'm a musician and writer and artist, I was working a few years on architecture design shows and we're on the way to one of these events and I was flying above the Grand Canyon and there was these blinding lights that was sort of, you know. Now again, you know, there were people on the plane, they didn't seem to be looking. It reminded me a lot of a little bit of William Shatner Twin Eye Zone episode where. Where with the alien on the wing. It's very funny, that episode. I used to love watching that for a giggle. But I sort of looking down and there's like loads of these sort of very bright lights. I mean, very. It's so bright. A bit like when you look at the sun, it's not a good idea to keep looking because your eyes will hurt. And there were about four or five of them down there. I mean, they were. They were bright. And I got to the event in Arizona, I think it wasn't. And when I got back, I says, you know, I've got to look this up. And so I looked it all up and yeah, lo and behold, they're very similar pictures online of Grand Canyon UFOs. Same with black triangles. In the UK, it seems to be quite a lot of sightings. So those are two of my sort of biggest sightings. I used to see sort of glowing orbs a little bit on the horizon that would shoot off, as I say, in my teens, a little bit. But those have sort of been the main things in recent times in terms of, you know, concrete sightings that I've had. But I've always, as I say, had an interest. I mean, when I enjoyed a hobby of writing and I remember getting a phone call from very bizarre conspiracy theorist called Anthony J. Hilda, who was. I don't know if you remember him, but he was like this very extreme, quite ahead of his time, like a extreme version of David Ike almost, but kind of. He would talk a lot about Skull and Bones and Satanism and secret societies and aliens and things. And I knew of him because I'd also written to Richard d. Hall in 2011 about my book that I'd written, which don't know whether to mention or not, but it was about. It was like a science fiction thing about UFOs. It was just an escapist thing, really, just a bit of fun. And I put that out there and I think I got this phone call as a result. It's quite funny because my particular book was rare because it was the only one that had been written about Vril something V R I L A power source called Vril. There's lots of conspiracy theories about it. I read about it in Mourning the Magicians. Anyway, he. Yeah, when I was a kid. Anyway, he called me and he says in very sort of thick Tom Crime from Santa Monica, usa, I'm here to tell you this is real. This is not, you know, lies. It's all real. And it's sort of very kind of. I could barely understand what we're saying. He was sort of drooling on. But it was great fun. I was very excited because I'd like. I'd seen him, I think, once on one of these channels because for a while, I don't know how it happened about 15 years ago on Sky. Somehow you got shows by people like Richard D. Hall and even Hilda about all these conspiracies and whatnot. Now all that's being banned now on by sky you can't get any of that. And even on YouTube a lot of it's getting banned. But back then somehow it slipped through the net. So I knew about him from that. So yeah, he called me all the way from Santa Monica. In the end we never met up. It was a shame because he, his colleague, his right hand man did call me and let's meet at the Georgian Pilgrim in Glastonbury about. But we never did. He died not long after. And the sad truth is when I was out there, when I saw the UFOs in Grand Canyon, I didn't realize he was still alive then and he didn't actually live that far from where I was living in, in Newport Beach. I had no idea he was in, you know, there's kind of a small world but sadly I missed the opportunity there but would have been lovely to have met him again. So yeah, I mean my, through my life I've had some, so many interesting experience that have just kept me excited and interested in it and I just feel that also because Catalina island as well, I, I, when I was out in America I was just lived opposite there and I used to see lights occasionally but nothing that significant. And again in hindsight I've heard we'll see with the Tic Tac incident that I was also in quite, quite a, well a very significant hot spot funnily enough around the time of, of that Tic TAC incident in 2018. I was actually living out there then but had no idea at the time. So yeah, I mean whether it's the HG worlds connection or as I say my old mum sitting so she's reading us on off a day. She was fascinated though in, in the reality of it. I think that's the key and I think she was, she was open minded on it. I, I got that influence. And so when I've seen UFOs I think the other thing to remember is I think fear probably puts a lot of UFOs off from appearing to people because, because I guess sci fi is kind of grainy in us ingrain it in us to, to expect an alien attack or whatnot like War of the Worlds. But I do get the feeling that a lot of them probably are very kind of peaceful and quite the opposite and observing us perhaps not as in a nasty way like H.G. wells painted, but in quite a fearful way. Even, you know, obviously with. With AI developing as it is at the moment. And I had quite an early insight into that for various reasons a couple of years ago. It is quite. Well, it's chilling, really, what the possibilities are with that. And so I think, obviously with disclosure bubbling up at the moment, with shows like Weaponized. I mean, the thing is, I did watch an episode of Weaponized recently, and as much as I love that show, it was all about music, and I'm a musician, so I was like, I should be really happy. But it. It just rang alarm bells for me. It was just a long interview with Robbie Williams. I'm like, what's going on? So sometimes even the shows or even the things you think you can trust, you've got to be a little bit. I'm not saying you can't trust that particular show, but it put a few question marks in my mind. So there's so much information out there. It's just culling it all, really, and finding out, working out what's real or not. But if you've seen something with your own eyes, you know, it's. It's real. It just gets frustrating, I think, at the moment, because you feel that we're on the edge of a real kind of potential breakthrough with. With UFOs and acceptance of it or alien life. But also there's something holding everything back. And it's like it's going around in circles. You know, you're getting actual government, you know, public meetings or whatever about. About UFOs for the first time in history, but it's not even on the British news. You know, you'd think they'd be interested. You know, they're more interested in gossip. So it's. It's a fascinating time. And as I say, right through my life and say, books like Holy Blood and Holy Grail, Morning Magicians, I was steeped in all that. But as I say, it wasn't, as I say, solely from the fantasy angle. There was always an interest also in music. You know, people like Gary Newman and David Bowie and Ultravox would write songs about aliens. And so, again, you know, I think perhaps those songs meant more to me because I felt that they weren't just escapists. I don't know. But certainly, as I say, growing up in a household where it was, as I say, believed in on one side, not on the other, I think it gave me a quite a useful kind of perspective from different angles, moving forward, really. But yeah, I mean, it's. With the whole area, it's just about, as I say, being open minded and receptive and then I think there's a chance, you know, that peer to one. But I think, as I say, it's just about belief. But it's always been something that I've always been interested in, as I say. And I hope, you know, I, I hope that in the next couple of years with the whole AI thing coming up, that if there is some sort of disclosure that's perhaps more mainstream, that it's, it's the real thing, you know, that it is not some sort of faked, you know, thing. Because obviously people like David Ike, you know, whether you believe in him or not, they're getting sort of censored more and more. So it does get more difficult to know who's genuine or not. As I say, shows like you obviously shows like Doctor who and Star Trek and Hitchhikers go, all these shows that they prepare people on one side of things, but they also leave people very fearful and unreceptive because they just think it's all fantasy. But life could imitate art, art can imitate life. So you just have to remember that, you know, that often the most amazing things, like, I mean, as everyone points out, the flip phones that we, you know, in Star Trek in the 60s, communication devices, I mean, we have them now with mobile phones, it's all come true. So definitely, you know, there's no reason not to believe. But I think, as I say, I, I would say that my main reason for coming on, on here is that I would say as someone who passionately believes in it, I just think there needs to be a very measured new approach with it because I just think there's too many ufo, almost too many podcasts, too many things out there where it's getting a bit confused with all the Russell Brands of this world coming in, who weren't even interested in it a few years ago, three, four, five years ago. So I just think it needs a, a clear kind of direction. Hopefully your show will be part of that.
- [23:17]
F
Hopefully. But yeah, I mean that, that's the problem with the subject. You know, you have got a lot of good information coming out, but unfortunately it's, it's a bit like a polluted river. You've got fresh water coming down from the mountains and then you have sewage which is being pumped into it. And unfortunately that is the way the subject is. There's a lot of good information, but a lot of bad information. And regardless of what their agenda is, whether it's just to make Money or whatever, I don't know. But there's a lot of rubbish. There certainly is a lot of rubbish out there and there always has been. It's just you have to kind of separate what's real and what's fiction.
- [23:51]
D
Yeah, yeah. Well, that's where the NASA story was so important when I was a kid, because the fact that, you know, my old mum, you know, had said on one side of the coin and she was a believer that I met, you know, a NASA employee, believed in it, you know, he'd seen alien proof of alien life, you know, you know, no, it was absolute quiet 100 belief on the other side decided to cynic. Was a bit more of a cynic with me mum who was not a believer in it. But even she said, well, yep, he definitely said this. He did say it, you know, and when you've got a cynic saying, well, yeah, through gritty teeth. So I had a, as I say, a very interesting, well, that must be true then, example as a young child. So perhaps in a way it does, I say, did make them more open to it. But I would say that, as I say, there's just so much information at the moment, which is one of the things about the Internet, you know, in a way less was more because when I was growing up and as I say, you had books like Communion and you had, you could go perhaps to meetings of ufologists or you could. They're always going to be fakers. But it's so much easier now to fake with technology, so much easier to also, you know, try to make money from it in some way. That's why I didn't really wasn't sure whether to mention my book, it was many years ago and my interest in Vril, as I say, Anthony J. Hilder passionately believed in it as a free energy source in the Tesla mold, you know, and the Nazis were obviously trying to harness the power that, you know, people like NASA with Operation Paperclip tried to tap into. And he, you know, he really was very passionate, Hilda, about the subject and it kind of scared me a bit actually because I was only just trying to write a potboy. A bit of fun, you know what I mean? A little sci fi bit of fun when I was unwell and, and you know, something to do and it was just really a case I got really carried away with the concept and the ideas and as having written to Richard D. Hall about it. So that was, that was a real eye opener. And so as I say, it was a kind of bittersweet to know that was so near but yet so far from Hilda himself when I was out there. But as I say in childhood again, you know, a lot of heavy metal bands also into UFOs and all this. So I suppose, you know, when you've got these myriad just like anybody else, you've got a myriad of different directions from it. It's unfortunately most people are directed though by the mainstream media or the mainstream entertainment world. And so as a result they tend to sort of get their cynicism or disbelief from that, I guess. I suppose because tainment has primed everyone up to be scared. And as I said earlier with War of the World and everything, it's something unfortunately it's quite a long tradition of. Of people just assuming they're going to attack us. And I think it's that fear perhaps that repels them because the same vast majority of them I'm sure are peaceful. But as I said, I think the next couple of years. I'm quite religious too, I do believe. So I think that the next couple of years with AI coming up as it is, where it's literally there's a possibility it might attempt to replicate and overtake us. I think then you're getting quite an H.G. wells type war the world scenario or almost a brave New world type scenario of. Of how it's all gonna unravel in front of our eyes. I think a lot of people are a bit in the dark about it that follow the mainstream media and the mainstream vendors. I don't think they quite realize. I mean I've been watching a lot of debates and lectures by the creators of AI so I suppose I'm a bit more clued up on it. But it is really quite terrifying. And I'm just curious because I haven't heard a lot of talk on this how the whole alien life, how that will all tie in, whether it will assess about or speed it up, whether the AI thing will immediately that will be disclosure or how it will happen, we'll have to wait and see. Is a bit like a real kind of sci fi novel coming alive a little bit. I mean, I think as I say, I mean I've got a signed Ray Bradbury and I love, I love science fiction. I love Martian Chronicles. When I was a boy, I saw that and that that was a work of fiction that I believe. I don't want to scare people. That could be very, I think close to reality from. From studying this deeply. You know, obviously not everything David Ike says is necessarily true, but if you believe in the concepts of. How can I put it without sounding like I'm kind of getting a bit too imaginative, but kind of like shape shifting and everything else. I know from having looked in you into ufology closely that certainly there's a belief that that's possible in reality. Not a sci fi. Again, not a sci fi. That there's a possibility of that and that they might even walk amongst us to quote. So I mean it's fascinating. There's lots of ways to look at it. Certainly with again, everything going on with the nuclear situation, artificial intelligence, the war in Russia, it's all a bit dystopian. And I think because so many people are kind of programmed by social media, they're also a lot of the active jobs and industries at the moment, all in technology. So a whole generation of millennials really have been sucked into thinking it's okay to never leave a machine, to always communicate, only on a machine, to do things really that are quite anti human at one time. And I think the whole AI thing is tied into that. It's almost as if we've all been steered. I think perhaps because I'm a little bit older I can have perspective of it. But you know, I was, I had an unused. I was brought up in a Steiner school to an extent. I missed a lot of schooling early in life because of illness. And so I think growing up, you know, rather than seeing loads of friends, I was, you know, spending a lot of time with older people and one of them being into ufology obviously as a young man, I obviously had a slightly biased view. But yeah, I remember watching films like close encounters, but 2001 as well and reading about, you know, the Dogon tribe in Africa in Morning and the magicians and you know, clearly, you know, these things were around long before the Internet and I think these were the things that got my imagination fired up, really. Imagination, people might say. Exactly. And I would counter, well, no, I just think it gives you an interest and I think it just, it gives you something that you can take with you in life. It doesn't mean you imagine UFOs, it doesn't mean that you're imagine. I, you know, there's so many people around the world who see things and I've seen things that, you know, there's obviously something to it, we all know that. But somehow everything is geared to us not believing that. And then as I say, I, I'm not anti religion. I don't believe that, you know, that believing UFOs means that you are. There are references in the Bible and the film, etc, but obviously with the agenda that the BBC has, whatever that is, and with everything. I don't think most people really quite realize where we are with all this. And you have to be careful who you tell, which is why I suppose it's so great to come on a show like this to talk openly about it. Because, you know, I remember thinking as a child, because I'm a musician and I remember thinking, isn't it amazing that, you know, bagpipes developed at the same time in ancient Mesopotamia as they did in, in, you know, Cornwall or whatever. And it's true, you know, when you look, you know, how did they know they didn't have Internet? You know, was, was it some sort of telepathy? They hadn't discovered each other. These were completely disparate parts of the planet. They weren't even, you know, they wouldn't have known each other's existence, let alone letters or anything like that, to say, hey, this is how you build. I mean, you know, exactly the same sort of instrument, exactly the same point in time. So even things that are practical and scientific that science wouldn't be able to explain like that always piqued my interest. There's more to life, that there's more to human development or intelligence than we think. And it's the same from the perspective of all the alien depictions you see as shown by Devon Daniken, though again, you look him up and you know, just because one individual happened to hit lucky with the subject and do well, and that individual might have something dodgy in their past, doesn't mean the whole thing isn't, is, is nonsense. And that's the important thing to remember with all this. You don't shoot the messenger and also be careful who the messenger is. So it's such a complicated subject. It's a very simple subject, actually. But in terms of, in terms of who you believe and the perceptions of it, as I said five years ago, like Russell Brand weren't really talking about it. So clearly things are going in the right direction. But whether they're the right people to be talking about it, I suppose is the issue a little bit. But how can we know until there's any genuine, you know, genuine disclosures. But I, I certainly think that, you know, looking back through time, another aspect as well, just to bring us up to date with a bit of a sci fi connection, a little bit, because it's like something out of a sci fi. I was reading that DNA strings can actually be replicated and emailed and across an information by AI and that again, even though it's not really the alien subject as such, again, it poses the question of if life forms are coming from that angle. If in 10 years, 15 years, that was to say, happen, if AI isn't controlled, and there's a problem with that at the moment, then one can imagine, you know, the aliens, alien life would most definitely want to get involved. It's not a Twilight Zone or ET or some sort of fancy, you know, they would definitely want to. To get involved and to either, you know, control the situation or save humanity. It could even pose a religious question. So it is a very, very interesting time where you honestly feel everything is coming a little bit to a head. And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to come on the show, because conspiracies do exist. That's why it's in the dictionary. Guy Fawkes is the most obvious example. And I think that certainly when I look back through my life, not only is it coming to a head, I think generally the whole UFO subject, but it is for a lot of people personally as well, who've been into it all their lives, like myself. So, yeah, I mean, that's kind of where I'm coming from it really. I mean, I haven't had an abduction experience as far as I know. I've never had hypnosis to find out that particular angle of things in terms of actually having. Having met any aliens or anything like that. So I can't sort of say that I have, unfortunately, much as I'd love to say I have. But, you know, I think the fact that I've seen some very notable sightings, obviously in. Firstly in. Well, when I was a child in London, a little bit later as well, in Somerset, but certainly in recent years. So the Grand Canyon sighting, which I've got a good photo of, my own personal photos on my blog, actually, and also the West Dunwich one really, really have piqued my interest a lot again, along with all the wonderful encounter shows. Particularly yours, I think. Are that bit more, you know, believable? Because I say there's a lot out there that kind of, let's say, straddle the two scenes a bit in terms they sort of bridge the gap between reality, which a lot of people don't want to believe in the truth of UFOs and alien life and science fiction. And with people like 2001 and Close Encounters, there's a kind of gray area, not quite science fiction, but almost. I don't remember there being at the beginning of Close Encounters. A little thing saying this is a true, a true story. Maybe there is. I haven't seen it for a few years but as I say there's lots of perspectives with the extreme being it's all nonsense. It's all sci fi. And as I say lots of gray areas not just of sci fi itself but of the whole conspiracy field and the whole ufology field itself. Be it the Billy Myers or the Nick Popes, all these people or the, you know, the history channels. I tend to sort of go more for trying to find the more subversive debates and lectures online that and try and get out there and meet people. That's why I was sad not to meet Anthony J. Hilda properly. I could have, but that's by the by. And Richard D. Hall I'm not so sure about. He's not so much a ufologist these days, more an agitator. But you know, certainly when I look at what's out there I'm not agitated. Sort of journalist, kind of enjoyable agitator. I mean he was paid demonized by the BBC but that seemed to be to do with something that wasn't UFO related. What's up everybody?
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With McValue, prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher for delivery. So it is very complicated picture at the moment and quite also, you know, how will the disclosure safely happen? If it can happen or will it, as I say, it may just unravel naturally. Country in connection with AI and of course there's a. There's also a new conspiracy theory on the block that there'll be a fake alien thing go on in future produced by AI. So that's going to make things even more complicated. So I mean it is a fascinating time. And if that happens, then the aliens might say up, you know, we're the real deal. We've got something to say about this. So who knows. I mean all these, all of these are all. They all sound like sci fi plots. Which is perhaps why I enjoyed writing when I was younger a bit. But now, I mean this is all, all, you know, 100 true stuff. And I think that, you know, it. It's fascinating to see how it works, you know, play itself out. And I remember lyrics like when I was a child, I remember listening to down in the park by Gary Newman and lyrics like my love is a rape machine and. And talking about clones and. And strange machines and aliens and. And really when you, if you really, you know, study what's going on at the moment with AI and everything else, and if you're into what into the art really was imitating facts. You know, whether it was Hawkin reading too much Michael Moore Cocker, I think they even got him in the band at one point. Or Gene Roddenberry actually knowing ufologist. Ufologists in real life, which he did, you know, we didn't know all that years ago. You know, we just watched Star Trek. We didn't have a clue, you know. But see, my old mum, as I say, she gave me that perspective, I think because she was so well read. Signed Ray Bradbury, Isaac Asimov's every year. But also, as I say, she'd met people in NASA that had believed in aliens. So as I say, I was coming at it from all those perspectives.
- [40:45]
F
I do like your term as an offer day.
- [40:47]
D
All right. You know, I've just made that up for myself there. I've just. I've just invented a word. There you go. A true original. Maybe it's Coleridge influencing me. I don't know if he believed in UFOs. I'm sure he did. You know, I mean, as I said earlier with ancient times, the romantic poets, they were open. You look into the. The poetry they wrote and there's. There's loads of references to. Because obviously they were bound very much by religion and Christianity, but, you know, they were obsessed with nature and spirituality and, and the universe and our role in it. And so absolutely, I'm sure that Coleridge, though he didn't write a poem on UFOs. I'm sure he would have believed in it all.
- [41:24]
F
If I can remember rightly, as not wrote a book and it was about finding God. So you had human beings that left the earth in search of God and you also had some aliens that left their planet in turn to search for God and the two men. I. Escapes me the name of the book now, but yeah, that was. That was an interesting one. And you're absolutely right when it comes to AI, I think when you have people that grew up pre Internet certainly have a different opinion when it comes to AI compared to the youngsters now that are post Internet.
- [41:59]
D
You're not all. I mean, sometimes it's a bit like I remember meeting a kid out in America who was about 17 and he said to me, I says, what music you into, mate? You know, music things. Oh, I love anything pre. Pre 1990. I said, what? Yeah, pre 9090, I said, I don't listen to anything after then everything's. Yeah, probably even earlier than that. And it sort of reeled off all these names of stuff from years ago. And not that he was correct. I mean that there is good music around now and you have. But you just have to search for it doesn't. Doesn't get as successful as it used to or should do because of the corrupt industry. But that's another conversation. But what that shows is that youngsters can think differently, think outside the box. I mean, you and me aren't that old anyway, we're quite young. But the point is, you know, they can and hopefully will be a bit more different in future. It's very difficult because if, if all the. And it's not just slightly for young people, the same for older people. But if all your heroes, be they sporting musical film stars, whatever, they're all saying what everyone in the media is saying, which could be any, you know, whether it's to do with COVID the war, AI, aliens, any of it, you know, they're impressionable and we're all impressionable. Even as we get old, if someone's a favorite film star of us, we can believe what they say. And that's the only thing. You know, sometimes people think for themselves, but there's so many more external, you know, as I say, the narcissistic nature of Instagram, Facebook, it's all sort of pulling people in certain directions often. That's why I try and steer clear a little bit of social media. But it's, as I say, it's just too much information coming up people. So it's a bit confusing. But there, there are a few kids that think outside the box. And I think, as I said earlier, it's the same issue with too much information on, on ufology. It's very easy for a naysayer to come up. For example, I'll give you an example. I mean, there's probably videos already out there. In fact, I saw one the other day where I thought, this guy's different, I'll give him a try. And I listen. I realized he was, you know, I think he was pretty much a cynic, but he built such a powerful argument all these People that I'd heard in the odd podcast or the odd UFO show that I like or would recommend that have infiltrated the stuff that perhaps is genuine. And that person's just come along and pick, cherry picked all the ungenuine stuff, you know, that. The untrue stuff. And they've sort of lumped it all together and made it all like a pile of nonsense. And so that's what I'm saying. It's so easy to kind of. For the whole subject to get, you know, discredited, which is obviously ridiculous. I mean, how can you think we're alone in the universe? This is why I say to anybody, do you seriously think. I mean, and people that, that do believe we're alone in the universe or believe things as they are, I. E. That, you know, nothing has been any different to everything the government tells us and everything. I mean, there are people like that, even intelligent professors all over the place because we've seen that last couple of years that people will swallow anything if it's presented well enough. So yeah, I mean, it's a tough one. But I think that's very interesting with. I think Asimov, you said about that, that plot line. Because again, that may be our imitating live accidentally on purpose. Because yeah, I do think that. I mean I've often one might even wonder, well, how does one know if gray aliens are even aliens or not? I mean, they don't seem very organic. They seem very. They seem to communicate from what I hear, by telepathy. But they, they could just as easily be AI robots. I mean, we don't know. I mean the AI robots being created look so realistic. And as I say, there's reason to believe that, that they. Unfortunately it does sound like a sci fi. But they could actually potentially. I saw this in a. I think a statement on having, you know, wanting to pause for six months the whole AI thing. There was a statement that came out and I'm sure in there it said about it's possible for them to actually be physical outside of the robot realm where they could actually as organisms, DNA, create themselves in laboratories. I mean, it's extraordinary. It's like something soylent green but, you know, million times magnified and will actually come alive. I mean, actually reminds me a little bit of an old Outer Limits episode, that one where the creature comes alive. I think it's the first one of the first episodes of that. It's a brilliant episode actually. But again, you know, this isn't sci fi. This is reality. Quite extraordinary. And in the in this old Outer Limits, this creature called goes crazy and that he communicates with now. I mean, whether. Whether that sort of thing is going to happen. And that's what I'm saying there, your. Your example there of. Of a plot line where humans left Earth to find God and aliens came here to find God or whatever. I mean, that's where AI is taking us away, ultimately, from God. Even though many say, well, there's nothing more godlike than intelligence. Obviously, if it's artificial, things sort of took it away, taken away from it. Even if, as Elon Musk has tried to say, though, I think one of the videos was a deep fate, you know, you can live forever with like something out of. Reminds me of cold in Lazarus, the. The old Dennis Potter plot line where. Where's literally a head in a fridge and he can live forever through AI. I mean, these are the sorts of things that are genuinely being, you know, discussed. So clearly everything's going to come to a head, I think, and the religious questions and fundamentals, my fundamentals of that and whether, you know, whether it's a second coming of a Jesus we recognize or something more unusual, we'll just have to wait and see. I mean, whether it might all fizzle out and that actually, you know, all the naysayers will just get deleted from society. We'll just all flip into the background and we'll just. Everything will turn into sort of AI mechanized world, and people will just have implants that make them. You know, they're already doing it with. With Elon Musk and the whole neuralink thing. It could be that, you know, people will all be updated a bit like Microsoft Windows back in the day, and no one will question everything and everyone will be perfectly happy by 2030. We'll have to wait and see. But it is an interesting time.
- [48:02]
F
It certainly is. You know, when, you know, when it comes to AI, you know, you have all the deep fakes now. There's videos, you know, you can see of apparently people, and they're not people. It's all, you know, it's all digital and stuff. So even now, you don't even really know what you're seeing on TV is real anymore. And especially, you know, if you grew up with films like you said 2001 with how and the terminator movies with skynets, we all know what happened there. It all turned very sour very quickly.
- [48:29]
D
Yeah, there's also a lot of people, as I say, like the millennials, because I've worked in sales a lot in the past, and I Mean, you know, I mean, with a good salesman, you know, they'll sell anything, you know, and they'll make anything sound good. I mean, Adolf Hitler could have probably hired a team and they would have. You know, this lot would have made it sound convincing. You know, they don't seem to question anything, is what I'm saying. And. And it is funny. It was not funny. It's kind of. Kind of strange. I saw a funny article, actually, in a subversive newspaper called the Light recently, which is a sort of Somerset publication. But it was going on about how he was a neighbor. He's a neighbor of Dave, I think probably shouldn't mention it. A neighbor of a member of. Of Pink Floyd, one of the men and one that's left. And he was sort of explaining in this article that musicians just don't. You know, I mean, from talking to him, he clearly, from a few moments, you know, believes everything that everybody, you know, in the media believes, whether it's about the war or covert or anything. I don't know quite how he got on such contentious subjects so quickly, but he clearly has talked to him a few times. And this article is like, you know, musicians, pop, cult, rocker, they just don't. You're not subversive anymore. They don't want to change the world anymore is what their job used to be, you know, whether it was the Pistols or. Or the 60s or the hippie dream or whatever. So, yeah, I mean, it is more difficult now. But then, you know, they've been so steered and controlled since the last 25 years with. With social media that that is bound to. To go this way because they think they're free, because everything tells them they're free, because we're all connected and we will have such connectivity that it seems that way. It's very easy to believe that. I mean, but. But you're right. I mean, even what you were saying, all the connections, like with Hal in 2001, it's a warning, you know, and things can be real, that they really can. I mean, when I was messing about, as I say, writing about Vril, I, you know, as a Tesla type, free energy source that Nazis believed in and all this thing, I. You know, part of me thought maybe it's true. Part of me thought also, you know, you shouldn't really write about dangerous things. But Dennis Wheatley used to, I want to attract any energies. But then part of me thinks, you know, now that, you know, people are really talking about things like this. But, you know, I mean, for. We know, for real, from talking to Anthony J. Hilder. It's real, something like that. You know, I think it probably is. And that's why people like Tesla got bumped off, I expect, you know, so it's, it's so many. It's a very complicated time with it all. And I just think it's. It could be that, as I say, the most bizarre situation playing out in the next few years where, you know, is it a real alien invasion or a fake one? We don't know. Perhaps there won't be any alien invasions. I. I doubt it. It's more likely that the AI is going to be the problem and it'll be more a case, as I said earlier, alien intelligence coming in to somehow sort of either get us back to what we're supposed to be or, or, you know, learn from us. And it could be quite a strange, well, situation. Hopefully we'll live to see it. But it's. It is, it is quite. Well, it's frightening, but it's also exciting. I mean, the thing is, if you're in a situation where, you know, there's a huge, you know, pandemic, fake or real, or there's a huge war that's going to happen and, you know, that people care about or don't give a damn about, depending on the media and the propaganda. But whatever situation or danger that's looming, they're all a lot more tangible than this situation with AI. Yet there doesn't seem to be a lot of sort of massive panic about it. Just a lot of talk. But as I say, I've heard some. Only really, I've not really heard any direct kind of relating the two, really. Artificial intelligence and extraterrestrial intelligence. And obviously, you know, I've always held the belief that it's highly likely we're extraterrestrials ourselves because we, we go against everything, all the nature on the planet. We're always going against it, whether it's to trash hedgerows and we always seem to be we. I mean, when the Adam and Eve in us, the, or the, the part of us that's always been, I suppose, demonized to a point by Christ, unfortunately, paganism, but. Which is unfortunate, but certainly because it's not Satanism, obviously, but. But obviously that part of us, the nature in us that Cole, we've loved, etc, and he was religious, you know, is something that we need to reconnect with badly. And it may be the alien life, you know, once we've gone completely away from it, because we're literally like something out of the way it's going. Blade Runner or Tron or one of these sci fi has come real, then it may be a case that, that you know, if we really have become machine in future, that the aliens try to get us back to what we once were. If they, if they're not some over usurped by AI I mean if AI can literally recode itself a million times more intelligent than what it is then really, I mean it would be a sort of new God, wouldn't it? Sort of strange new techno God. I mean it is these sorts of fundamental questions are the sorts of questions that are being asked. Only a year ago you'd have thought listening to me is either, you know, completely bonkers or he's had too much pot or whatever. But the reality is, you know, this is, is truth, you know, this is, is the way things are going. It's still, there's still so many that, that don't want to believe. Partly because we all want to believe what we believe in. You know, it's a bit like religion, isn't it, or anything? You know, it's a bit like if James Randall, whatever his name was, came on here and says, oh, we all want to believe in UFOs you silly man. You know, at the end of the day, whatever it is, you know, we all want to believe in certain things, but we've all got a right to believe what we believe in. There might be a grain of truth and in fact whatever it is might be perfectly pertinent but then it might be, you know, it's all open to interpretation. And, and I, I just think that as you say, I think with, with everything as it is. I mean I watched quite a bit of George Galloway. I quite like him because he's, he's very opinionated and he sort of says things very much how they are and even he at one point mentioned aliens. Actually though, he's, he's finally waking up to AI and it's dange is quite comical. But no, I mean I've experienced it. I've messed around with chat GPT a few times already. I'm a writer and it's only natural that I was sort of, I suppose, curious and it's frightening, you know, because it literally talks to you. I mean it's, you know, I had a conversation with it in a sense where I, you know, I was trying to write a poem but I wanted it finished in a particular way and I wanted it done in this style and it did it and it was awful. So I said No, I want it done in this style, with this. And I suddenly realized, you know, that in a way, AI can be an enemy, but it can be, obviously in a big way. But the way it will lull us in is a bit like with social media, web dating. All these things, sort of normalized, things we thought were dead weird. Much easier to go down your pub and pool than go online. People would have said years ago, but everyone's got used to it now. Everyone does web dating in the same way. I think people just get used to a concept. It doesn't matter how uncomfortable. If it's seen as progress, they'll accept it. And I think also that's another danger where we're going, where AI, I think, might have to literally say save us. That might be in a position not so much save us, but it might seem to save us because it all people will say, oh look, it's cured all these diseases. It's helped us trace alien life. It's, it's done all these things that might seem good at first but, but the reality will kick in that, you know, there's no point really. You know, now we're all disease free. It's a bit like the Morlocks and the, the Eloine. Is it in, in, in War of the World, you know, obviously my great grandfather met, met the writer, which is amazing to think, but you know, he, he I think had it completely right, I think, you know, in that the Morlocks, I mean, they're the people that the unfortunates. I mean, society record child poverty, nobody talks about it. We have prime ministers even invited in on tms, you know. You know, people tend to put their head in the sand a bit.
- [56:10]
C
It.
- [56:10]
D
And I certainly think so. I mean, eventually political, but I certainly think that just the way the way things are heading is. It's exciting. But it's kind of frustrating too because you feel that the AI will suck people in, particularly younger people, into thinking it's going to solve all these things. Like everyone, as I say, socially uses it for dating because it's so much quicker and all this. But not necessarily. But I think when it actually turns around and bites us by collectively deleting this as a species or coming to a point where those with money are literally like robocop. They're half technology and all the people with no money or organic, normal people, but they, they can't get jobs, they can't get anywhere because they can't do anything because they're not 1 million times more advanced like the rich People are because they've all had AI upgrades. Whether we're going to have some sort of crazy world like that. I think if, if things go that nasty on the planet, you know, we're halfway there anyway. I definitely think, you know, either God, Jesus, aliens, I think from all perspective maybe they're the same thing. You know, as Von Daniken once said, God drives a flyer saucer. But whichever way you're coming at it with you do feel, you know, theoretically we're all coming to a sort of a crisis. Whether you call it end times, whether it will happen in the next two months, two years, you know, two decades. That's another thing. You know, it's very difficult to know how and when. Be it the AI, you know, apocalypse, if that's what it is, or revolution and the, the disclosure or they're kind of concurrent of alien life. You've kind of got the two things at the same time. It's almost like a race. Maybe that's why there's so many wacky views at the moment. There's a possibility of a, a kind of staged alien thing which I suppose could happen if, if certain species want to make themselves available to humanity on a peaceful mission or in a peaceful way. And obviously the powers that be allowed, we don't want that happening because you know, that might bring global peace. So we better stage a fake alien invasion. I mean that's good, that could be that, that sort of scenario. But again, anyone listening to this is going to think I'm barking, but that's fine. You know, I'm a writer, you know, I've got artistic license. But you know, it might sound like a flight of fantasy, but you know, this, this fancy can become fact. And I genuinely believe some of these scenarios could play out. You know, it could be most extraordinary period in, in human history because we've, we've never created anything on purpose. I mean so, so stupid. It's more intelligent than us. So for that self defeating act to happen is, I mean, I hope there's a few aliens with a sense of humor out there. I mean it really is. The geek has inherited the earth. I mean if you're old enough to remember, you know, how goth music, how we used to sort of laugh at the geeks on the, on the computers, you know, it's that lot that took over. You know, it's like so. But yeah, it's, you gotta laugh or you go crazy really. But it's, it's a fascinating period in history that I will say certainly I,
- [59:12]
F
I think I first heard it from. It was Werner von Braun from NASA. I think he had mentioned about a fake alien invasion. It was a student of his. He told. And then she, I think she came out in one of the press conferences several years ago saying, you know, this is what von Braun had said. And he said the, you know, you always need fear and there's all these things which will happen and based around fear, you know, we've seen it, you know, decades now. There's always something to fear. And he did say that there. I can't remember if an asteroid would be first or the end, the fake alien invasion would be before it. But he did outline that back in the seventies. He had me. Had mentioned, mentioned stuff like that. But that's again, that's been something which has been around for, for a while.
- [59:56]
D
Wow, that's interesting. I didn't know that actually. I had no idea that that idea has been floating around. That's interesting.
- [60:03]
F
If you have a look on the Stephen Greer press conference from 2001. Now there was a NASA employee that worked with him. I can't remember a name but I should do because I'm actually friends from Facebook book. And she came out and said, you know, this is what he had, you know, he had told me it was all to do with when NASA was air brushing out objects, you know, in, in pictures and then really, then releasing them to the public. But yeah, no, she had mentioned that that was a 2001 press conference with Stephen Greer. The very first one. You did?
- [60:33]
B
Yeah.
- [60:33]
D
Isn't he the chap? Yeah, because I think I've still seen some of that footage. I think he's the chap that says you can manifest a UFO or something if you like. It's like praying really. He has a belief that telepathically and I kind of believe in that because when I had my viewing in West Dullage, I. I'd been listening to so many. I won't explain what my lifestyle was like at the time, but I was, I was living quite. I was, you know, I was working from home. So I was kind of for a couple of months, very much maybe in a bit of a world of my own, but it was, as a result I very much normalized the subject. So it was almost as normal as me to listen to a UFO podcast of a morning. I'd stick it on instead of the news. But I got very kind of obsessed with it for that little period that I will say. And it's almost made me wonder if you can, because I'm sure, it's him that said, or maybe it's someone the similar name that you can sort of wish for it and all that, because that's what happened when it happened in West Stylish maybe, but. But yeah, I've seen some footage and yeah, I mean, it's a bit confusing, isn't it? Because people will have to struggle enough with the concept of there being aliens and that. It's not a sci fi and it's not fantasy and. And obviously now with, with everything, you know, with certain things the last couple of years where there's been a media story, so to speak, that everyone's believed about something on a massive level where all our lives were massively disrupted and people sort of went along with it then it's plausible on one side to imagine people complying with draconian laws, staying indoors etc, for some sort of alien invasion. But on the other side with all the questioning that's a little bit more prevalent now, even amongst the most people that believe everything the news says. With a lot of the stuff that's come out recently, you know, obviously people are also a bit more questioning, so we'll have to see how it plays out. I mean, people might question a fake invasion that might help people to communicate better with, with real alien life in terms of, you know, I mean, these are almost all like sci fi plots because you really rather than reality. But we know there's a more than a 50% chance that these could all be realities. But what I was going to say is that you can imagine that it could be a situation where, as I say, ET alien might decide to help us to not fight the AI, but somehow work with it to appease it. If AI was to decide in future, like the teacher in the wall, pink floor, nasty sort of authoritarian figure, shake its finger and delete us forever. A bit like the space bypass in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy at the beginning with the Vogon captain. You know, hopefully that's not what the aliens are going to be like to us, but I think it's more likely to be the AI that will do something like that. But yeah, it's, it's, as I say, it's, it's mind blowing. Really fascinating, but mind blowing.
- [63:16]
F
Yeah, you should always definitely question when someone is telling you something. 100 On a side note, you know, if, if any sporting celebrities or music celebrities trying to give you any health advice, I look at it as if, say if I want to get health advice by someone that chases a ball, I will ask My dog, yeah.
- [63:36]
D
Well, you probably can trust your dog a lot more than people for sure. Yeah. I mean the animal kingdom, dogs are wonderful. You know, I, you know I read somewhere, I don't know where it was. It was on one of, one of the, I think it was coast to coast. I always remind me of dogs a bit dolphins. And that was bizarre theory that dolphins might be connected somehow with aliens or alien. And owls as well. So quite extraordinary things, owls and dolphins. I don't know about the connections there, but Be fascinating to know but, but yeah, I just think like we were saying earlier with. It's just started all my life as a child. The whole area of like when I remember seeing the film First Men on the Moon when I was a child, which is like a proto steampunk kind of film really majors ago. It was, it was a wonderful film but a lot of the. When my old mum told me about, you know, meeting someone who genuinely believed in, in aliens on the moon, that was it. You know, I was always, my mind was, I was always, as I say, sucked in and as I say, I, you know, my meager attempts at writing, as I say doing steampunk myself or trying to attempt to do it but when I actually got sucked into the real. When you get sucked into the real thing, there's a real feeling you want to get out there. And I, I, I've very nearly gone to a few UFO conferences. I'd love to and that there, there's a few, I know that there's one in Glastonbury occasionally and not that far from me, but so I would love to go. I've never actually got to a UFO conference which is a major. This is my nearest to it.
- [65:06]
F
The south of England. Definitely need more UFO conferences. Yeah. I was in talks with someone a while ago about maybe bringing us to do with the film festival in Gloucestershire. And I said to him, you know what this place really needs is, Is you know like a conference. Like a UFO and a paranormal conference. Exactly, you know, something like that. Now I know you didn't come on to promote your book, but do you want to tell us about your book?
- [65:28]
D
Well, gonna say I used to go to the Spiritualists Association a little bit years ago in Bartley, used to be in Berkeley Square in London and they were, they. I only mentioned that as, as it reminds me a little bit the communal feel of going to see it to a UFO event. Must be similar where you're meeting people all into things that are unusual. But yeah, no rule. I wrote a few of them. It's nice of you to mention it. As I say, you can cut it. Cut out any mention if you want but as you've asked me about, it's nice. The rule. Yeah, the real books. I might get back to doing a third. I've done a few excerpts on YouTube actually me reading. Reading Episodes because as I say, I'm a musician but I love writing and this was about 10 years ago I wrote and there'd never been any books written since Victorian times when Bulwer Lytton, Edward Bulwer Lytton wrote his tome about Vril. The coming of the. The coming Race. That that's actually, I think either Hitler and his, his cohorts read that and were influenced by it because of the connections with esoteric and, and. And the whole, that part of the world basically Germanic. The whole, the whole kind of tribal thing of Norse legend and everything. I think the whole Norse connection, Nordic Norse thing is what sucked them in on a racial level perhaps. I don't know. This idea was. Was I think based in a real, you know, fable. A real kind of a real concept going back many thousands of years. And anyway, he kind of mythologized it in his book and I'd heard about this and, and I realized it's not really been a sort of a sci fi kind of done in the sort of Da Vinci Code way about. About the whole connection between Nazis and UFOs. Even though you obviously got Indiana Jones and all that, which were frivolous and fun, there hadn't been a sort of more serious take where it's sort of more of a kind of, as I say, a sort of thriller. So that's kind of where I came at it with the angle I came with. And it was very much as I say, a kind of Da Vinci co. Kind of pot boiler kind of thing where I was just writing it for fun really. I put it out there and I got it on an indie publisher for a while called Double Dragon and it was fun. It sold a few copies. But at the end of the day I mainly did it for. For fun really because the subject gripped me and I was ill at the time and it was a good way of getting out, getting. Getting me out to something artistic out there. But I did get, I think the best thing about it was, was, you know, some pretty good reviews. But I think the best thing about it was, was getting the phone call from Anthony J. Hilder. I don't know how he got hold of a copy, but he called me out of the blue and, and that was, that was amazing really talking to him and that was kind of best thing. I might go. I might go back to it in future and write. Write a bit more about it and, and expand the concept. But yeah, it's fun because it hadn't really. There's a few books have come up since mine actually, but mine was the first that actually looked at those specific concepts of, of as I say, the whole kind of Nazi connection with aliens and, and Vril and this power source and the supernatural. And it was, it was fun to write as a result.
- [68:28]
F
The whole connection with occultism and the Nazis, you know, it was very deep rooted. It was that it was the Vril Society, wasn't it? That's. That's right, the Vril Society. There's always been this very deep root connection with that and especially ufo those. Interesting. What I'll do is I'll. I'll put the link below in the description. So if people want to head. It's the Vril Codex, is that right?
- [68:48]
D
Yeah, there's the. The Amazon shop for it. I don't really. I haven't really not. It's not that I've retired as a. As an author. I still write poetry songs. I'm writing a comedy book at the minute. But I. And I might return to real. But I kind of neglected it. I've neglected it a bit. It's quite a bit. There's actually a YouTube introduction to it might be the. A good thing to include. It'd be great for me to reconnect with the subject again and get strongly involved with it if I can in the next year. Because I do think that it's so important to say this period we're at, for all of us really and we'll see how things play out in the wider society. It's very, very interesting. I think the key is really the whole disclosure movement is how it's gonna happen. I think we're all curious simply because there's so many ways it could happen, whether it's a fake thing or you know, whether it will come through the conventional media. Because there was a silly weather balloon stuff with the Chinese weather balloon recently and everything and obviously that got on the BBC and they made a joke out of it. Oh, it's not aliens, exclamation mark. So we're still bizarrely in that sort of isn't it funny territory even in 2023, which when you think, think all the things we've been talking about, it seems quite bizarre. But that's the conventional media for you. They're very clever, patronizing and fooling, you know, the most intelligent people out there. Like you were saying earlier, professors, politics. Yeah. I won't say politicians. Clever. Avoiding doing anything any good and getting paid for it. Brilliant. I mean, wow. Goodness me. I mean, with everything, one wonders how it's all gonna plan itself out because everything is so. So intricate with all the systems and the intelligent divine design, I suppose, that we called. Whether you call it Mother Nature or God's design, it's. It's so intricate and clever. You look at bees and the wonderful work they do and how, you know, their. Their work, how everything they do helps us our health. Honey, how. What a wonderful healing substance that is. And royal jelly, of course. Though, of course, Roald Dahl had fun with that one, with that wonderful story years ago and tells the unexpected. But it's certainly, you know, even with something like that, just. It's simple. It's. Such as the times we're in, one wonders how insect life, how everything will be affected. It's like the butterfly effect with time travel. If for the. You know, if truly things are going to start changing the next couple of years, not just in the workforce, but across, you know, the whole strata of humanity because of AI, it's kind of one. One wonders how it'll affect the animal kingdom, everything. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see again. So that's one thing that is quite extraordinary. Shows like the Invaders or the prisoner with Patrick McGoohan, they seem to tap into that. Those are two particular shows and say the other one's utopia from about 10 years ago, which got banned, which is extraordinary show where there's sections where they talk about vaccines which are quite bizarre, which very much fit recent events and I suppose Outer Limits, Twilight Zone. But there's a few shows that evoke what we're going through. But I am not a number.
- [71:48]
F
I am a free man.
- [71:49]
D
Oh, yeah. Because with. Well, with the survivors, they're all amongst us, of course. They've just got a strange little finger and people might laugh. But with a lot of these ideas, which, as I say, sounded so wacky to me 10 years ago, as I say, when I spoke to Hilda, those were the sorts of things he was on about. And to be honest, there's a lot. There's even. I'm sure there was some sort of government, someone in government, in US government in the last couple of years, it wasn't even on the news, said that there was possibly, you know, alien life. And all this. And so it's really fascinating to think, think, you know, that there's so many, so many angles to it, you know, really is. And I think, think, as I say, I think it's just having an open mind and not laughing and saying, oh, you know, you've been watching too much. Maybe you need to put your box set of the Invaders away, you know, the day. These things are real, you know, and though, as I say, life, art, people can say, well, you know, they say art can imitate life and, and genuinely, a lot of, lot of you follow this. I've been listening to a lot of debates recently and there is quite a belief amongst some that there are, you know, they do walk amongst us. As I said earlier, there's even possibility, if it's not, you know, really just religiously complete profanity to say that we ourselves are alien life to begin with at least. So there's lots, lots of ways of looking at it. But as I said so much today, we've had such a fascinating chat and I, I hope I haven't blitzed you with too much verbal diarrhea, but, but it really has been interesting, Chain.
- [73:20]
F
It's been wonderful talking to you, Ben.
- [73:22]
D
Just wonderful to have been on and, you know, I really appreciate you giving me the time. And as I said, I've talked quite a lot. I probably repeated myself a few times. Hopefully it will be fun to some of the listeners. But no, thanks ever so much for having me on, on the show, really. I've. I just really enjoyed it. And it's a wonderful thing that you're getting so many of these calls in. And what, what it makes me think is that people really, you know, it's. It could be the mixture of two things, isn't it? I mean, people say on one side of the coin there's. Well, then there's more. The aliens definitely are. You're totally right. Things are reaching ahead. Things are coming to a head. They're either coming or it's going to be disclosure. And on the other side, it's because people are desperate because of all the problems in the world because of, you know, this thing, obviously last couple of years economically and racial tensions since COVID all the things that have happened. People are lonely and they're looking. Without religion, perhaps not doing the job it did in the past. People are looking for something to believe in. So I suppose from you, from. You got that and you've got that, you've got the two different perspectives. I wouldn't say the rational and the irrational because those of us who believe know that you've UFOs, aliens, it's perfectly rational and real. You know, as you probably tell that I've been looking forward to chatting about it for a while because I don't really have any outlets for this much amongst those. I know I write about it a lot on my blog, obviously more as fun than anything else. But it's. It's just been a nice opportunity to offload about it all really because. Because it's always fascinated me and you never know, the best might be yet to come.
- [74:48]
F
Ben, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing that for our listeners.
- [74:51]
D
Brilliant. No, it's been great fun and who knows how things will go in future. I'll let you know if I, you know when, when and if I have any more sightings as well. And yeah, thanks for having me on.
- [75:01]
F
Keep in contact and keep us updated. All right Ben, you enjoy the rest rest of your day and we'll speak soon.
- [75:07]
D
Brilliant. Take care. All the best. Thanks a lot.
- [75:09]
F
Take care, Ben. Bye for now.
- [75:10]
D
Cheers. Bye. Bye.
- [75:11]
F
That's all for this episode. Keep updated and connected with the show on X, Facebook and Instagram. And if you have an encounter that you'd like to share on the podcast, you can email me@ufocroniclesmail.com or you can reach out to me via the contact page on my website UFO Chronicles podcast.com a big thank you to Ben for sharing tonight and thank you all for listening. I will be back next week. Till then, stay safe and keep watching the skies. Goodbye.
- [76:50]
B
Hey guys, lady luck here. Are you going on any road trips this summer? I know I'm going to be going on a bunch of road trips and being that I'm going to be passenger Princess, I Love playing on Spinquest.com Spinquest has all of my favorite slot games. Live blackjack, live craps. Head on over to Spinquest right now and get yourself a 30 coin pack for just 10 bucks.
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A
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G
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B
Hey guys, lady luck here. Are you going on any road trips this summer? I know I'm going to be going on a bunch of road trips and being that I'm going to be Passenger Princess, I Love playing on Spinquest.com Spinquest has all of my favorite slot games. Live blackjack, live craps. Head over to Spinquest right now and get yourself a $30 coin pack for just 10 bucks.
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A
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G
Grainger knows when you're a procurement manager for an office partner, you're not managing one building, you're managing all of them. And to stay ahead, you need to see through walls and around corners. Lights about to fail, Filters ready to clog H Vac on its last leg. If you wait until something breaks, you're already behind. Count on Grainger for quality products, easy reordering and 24. 7 support. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.