← Ukraine: The Latest
Ukraine: The Latest
Air defence defeats largest drone attack of the war & Boris Johnson joins live for third anniversary
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Adelie Pojman Ponte
The telegraph.
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Dom Nichols
Close your eyes.
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Colin Freeman
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Adelie Pojman Ponte
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Per month when network is busy. See Terms Foreign. I'm Adelie Pojman Ponte and this is Ukraine. The latest. Today we mark the third anniversary of the full scale invasion. We hear live from Kyiv where world leaders are gathering. We talk about Ukraine's announcement to produce missiles, including ballistic missiles. And we make sense of what the German election result means for Ukraine. We cast our minds back three years ago and we hear what it was like at number 10 on the day of the invasion from Boris Johnson's former speechwriter. And we hear an exclusive interview with the former prime minister also in Kyiv for the anniversary.
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Dom Nichols
Bravery takes you through the most unimaginable hardships to finally reward you with victory.
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Colin Freeman
It's the worst carnage that this world has seen since World War II.
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David Blair
Absolutely fascinating. We are with you not just today.
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Dom Nichols
Or tomorrow, but for 100 years.
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Adelie Pojman Ponte
Nobody's going to break us.
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David Blair
We're strong.
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Colin Freeman
We are Ukrainians.
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Adelie Pojman Ponte
It's Monday the 24th of February, three years to the day since the full scale invasion began. I'm joined by associate editor for Defence, Dom Nichols, executive editor for audio, Francis Dernley, our correspondent in Kyiv, Colin Freeman, Ed and David Blair, who's newly returned to the Telegraph as chief foreign affairs commentator. He was chief foreign correspondent at the paper for a long time. But more importantly for us here, he was Boris Johnson's foreign affairs speech writer three years ago on the day of the invasion. So he'll tell us all about the behind the scenes at number 10 on that fateful day. But let's start as usual with the news from the battlefield. Dom, we know Russia loves symbolic dates, so tell us about what's happened over the weekend.
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Dom Nichols
Well, hello Adelaide. Hello everybody. Hello David. Welcome back. And, and Colin, of course. So over the weekend, Russia chose to mark the start of year four of Putin's lightning three day offensive by launching its largest overnight drone attacks since the start of the full scale invasion. Air Force spokesperson Yuri Iniat said that overnight, Saturday, Sunday, Russia fired 267 drones at Ukraine with air defence shooting down 138 and a further 119 either decoys or brought down by electronic warfare. Those drone attacks were accompanied through the day by shelling and missile strikes with explosions heard across the country. But there were mercifully few deaths and injuries. President Zelenskyy tweeted on Sunday. In total, nearly 1,150 attack drones and more than 1,400 guided aerial bombs and 35 missiles of various types were launched this week. Then last night, 185 shahed type drones were launched at Ukraine. 113 brought down over 12 oblasts and another 71 lost to EW or decoys. Only one got through. So three years in and with barely any movement on the ground, although more on that in a moment. And with the Black Sea fleet still just a name on a wall chart rather than an actual significant maritime capability, it is simply incorrect to say Russia, I think is winning on the battlefield. Airstrikes and other attacks, however, did kill one and injure five across the country. So onto the front line then. And geolocated footage published on Friday shows Russian forces seized the town or the village of ulakli. That's about 5 km west of Khurukhov in the Donbass. That's also shown by deep state map and suggests that that pocket, that Ukrainian pocket to the west of Kurukov, the, that had been largely surrounded in recent weeks has now been taken by Russia. That's not a huge surprise given the weight of effort Russia has put into trying to level out that area of the front line in recent weeks. But that was the only real change in the area over the weekend. Still no change in the vicinity of Pokrovsk about 30km further north, as has been the case for a number of weeks now, and still no change in Kursk Oblast. Note it's being reported today that Moscow has said it has struck a deal with Kyiv and the Red Cross to evacuate Russian civilians from the Kursk region. We have yet to try and work out whether that's responsible statecraft, an admission that Moscow doesn't expect to regain the territory anytime soon, or perhaps a prelude to a massive bombardment. We will obviously find out soon. Now then, also on Friday, Ukrainian officials made a few announcements regarding efforts to significantly expand Ukraine's domestic defense industrial base. Ukraine's Prime Minister Denis Shmiel said Kyiv had tripled domestic artillery production, increased armored personnel carrier production fivefold, doubled the output of anti tank weapons, and increased Ukraine's ammunition, production by 2 and a half times. He said drone manufacturing had surged tenfold in the year, the year only to January 2025. Mr. Shmiel said Ukraine now produces about a third of its weapons domestically and is allocating an additional 7.9 billion hryvna. That's just short of US$190 million to boost drone production this year. Worth noting that at Yesterday's Ukraine Year 2025 forum in Kyiv, Ukrainian Defense Minister Rustam and merov said that 96% of Ukraine's drones are now either made or acquired in the country, making it the world's top drone producer. He said we're focused on staying number one in global drone and electronic warfare production. For stats last year Ukraine produced one and a half million drones and their plans are on course, we think to increase that to about 4 million this year. Staggering numbers. Anyway, back to Friday's announcements and the Institute for the Study of War, the US based think tank, reported that Ukraine's digital transformation Minister Mykhailo Fedorov said that 19 Ukrainian companies had joined the defence innovation platform Brave1 to support the production of short and medium range missiles as well as ballistic missiles. Now of course, ratios are one thing, the actual numbers are quite another. But I do think that speaks of a maturing and expanding domestic defence industry in Ukraine. Ukraine's Defence Minister Rustam Amirov last week also announced changes to the system whereby the feedback loop connecting the military's frontline combat experience and requirements are more efficiently communicated to industry seeking to reduce the time new or updated capabilities get into the hands of the men and women who need it most in British armed forces. A slight segue, we used to call that bit the valley of death getting from an idea to actually having something in your hands can sometimes prove too much for a procurement system that has dozens of other priorities. Leaping across that valley is always very hard. It is relatively stressed, relatively easy to come up with new ideas, to see how emerging technology can be blended with battlefield experience about how the enemy is operating, that kind of thing, to come up with innovative and exciting new ways to kill them. But leaping from that idea to the point where someone has invested in the materials and the factory lines, built the concept demonstrator, trialled that demonstrator in real world conditions and then mass produced it. And of course, if it's something for UK special forces, making sure it's then painted black, that often proves too much and that the brilliant idea often dies. So that value of death is very, very tricky to get across. In other news, at least, Sweden's Defence Minister, Paul Johnson announced yesterday that Sweden is to send new air defence systems to Ukraine with worth 1.2 billion Swedish krona, just over 110 million US dollars. That's the 18th package of military aid from Sweden. Earlier today, Spain announced a new military package worth a billion euros spread out over this year. And also today, the summit that Francis is going to be speaking of shortly, Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said that Canada will transfer 25 LAV3, that's the light armored vehicle, 8 by 8 wheeled armored personnel carriers. Bit old, but still pretty good, 25 LAV3s and 4 F16 jet simulators. I stress the simulators bit there, not the actual jets, to Ukraine. So Justin Power Trudeau said, we're also transferring the first part of $5 billion in aid financed by proceeds from frozen Russian assets. Now then yesterday also footage emerged of the execution of more incapacitated UK Ukrainian soldiers. There's footage on social media you can find if you want to. You really don't have to look at it. Don't, don't, don't seek it out. It's undated, but thought to be quite recent. Shows at least one murder and with other bodies that are probably dead but with no way of knowing, then also being repeatedly shot. Now, the Russians know this is a war crime. They do it to terrorize us, to terrorize Ukrainian society and Ukraine's armed forces. We do think here, we do question, we do talk amongst ourselves. We wonder if the act of us reporting it is helping them in that regard. I personally refuse to be terrorized by these weak and scared little boys. So it hasn't worked on me. And I think that we do owe it to the fallen to record these crimes for history. So for the time being we are going to continue to report Russian war crimes related to that and regarding prisons of war. President Zelenskyy said spoke this morning at the Support Ukraine summit and said Ukraine is ready for an all for all exchange of prisoners. It's a fair option, he said. Obviously the context here is sort of perhaps moving towards some form of negotiations. Now. It's very difficult to get any accuracy regarding prisoners and the authorities in Kyiv don't say how many Ukrainian prisoners of war are held in Russia. We do get the occasional glimpse into this world though. For example, you may remember three weeks ago 150 prisoners from each side were exchanged. However, Ukraine's Ombudsman Dmitry Lubinet did say Russia holds over 16,000 Ukrainian civilians and has deported or forcibly displaced nearly 20,000 Ukrainian children transporting them to Russia, Belarus or other Russian occupied territories of Ukraine. President Zelenskyy said this morning thousands of people are being held in Russia and some of them have been held not only since 2022 but much earlier since 2014. A few more for me Adeli Ambray, the global maritime risk management firm reported yesterday that Russian forces had conducted an airstrike on the port of Kherson. Multiple explosions were reported in the area surrounding the shipyard there. Russia aligned sources said those strikes targeted an outpost for first person view drone operators. Now no vessels were thought to be in the proximity of the explosions, but Ambres say they're aware that a number of vessels remained stranded at the port since it was closed on 2 May 2022, right at the start of the full scale invasion and some of those stranded vessels in the Dnipro maintained skeleton crews. Then separately but a little bit further west along the coast, Ambrae reporting in the last couple of hours a Russian drone attack on the Ukrainian Navy's logistics infrastructure at the port of ChickenMorsk. That's about 20k's south of of Odessa city. Air raid sirens were sounded just before 10pm local time last night and sources there reported five explosions with uncorroborated sources saying that drones had struck the berths at the entrance to the port bay. According to Russian affiliated media, the attack damaged naval infrastructure related to navigation, control and communication systems. A Guinea Bissau flagged general cargo ship was in the area. Her last AIs transmission, the Automated Identification System transmission pinged at 10:46 local time yesterday morning. Nothing after that Ambrose says so far no damage has been seen to merchant shipping. Governor Ole Keeper said that well, he only said that Russian drone attacks had damaged port infrastructure in Odessa oblast. No further details there. Then on to today. And the British government has gone sanctions bonkers. So first of all, the government is set to announce in the next few hours new sanctions against Kremlin linked elites. The Home Secretary, we are told, is going to lay out a number of new measures that will expand the criteria for exclusion to cover high rollers linked to the Russian state. Those who could be barred from Britain include anyone who provides significant support to the Kremlin, those who owe their significant status or wealth to the Russian state, or those who enjoy access to the very highest levels of the Russian authorities. Flagging these new rules, David Lammy, Britain's Foreign Secretary, speaking yesterday, said it was time to turn the screws on Putin's Russia. Local and federal politicians, as well as managers or directors of large Russian companies face exclusion under the rules. And these are on top of existing travel bans on high profile business figures such as Roman Abramovich. Now Security Minister Dan Jarvis is good bloke, former Patrick Regiment officer. He said the expanded criteria for sanctions would slam the door shut to oligarchs who have enriched themselves at the expense of Russian people whilst bankrolling the war. He added. My message to Putin's friends in Moscow is simple, you are not welcome in the uk. So then continuing the sanctions theme, early this morning, Australia and New Zealand also said they're going to announce new sanctions against Russia today. And then just in the last hour or so, Britain's Prime Minister Keir Starmer has said the UK is going to impose its largest ever package of sanctions against Moscow, targeting the shadow fleet of tankers and foreign based companies providing military spare parts to Russia. So in a video addressed to that Support Ukraine summit I mentioned, Keir Starmer said, later today I will be discussing further steps with the G7 and I'm clear that the G7 should take more risk. Interesting phrase that, including the oil price cap, sanctioning Russia's oil giants and going after banks that are enabling the evasion of sanctions. Now, just so we're clear, the oil price cap thing, that's a sort of twofold strategy. First, under the existing terms of the price cap, Western operators are permitted to insure and transport Russian oil only if it is sold below the established threshold. That's currently $60 a a barrel. So lowering that cap would mean it's harder to ensure the movement, tankers and so on. But second, by lowering the price cap, that would hit the revenue Russia gets from the trade but obviously that would also hit other suppliers as well. So any move like that would need a lot of ears stroking to get that idea through. Okay, a couple more for me, Adelie. Also this morning, the General Staff of Ukraine's armed forces said drones operated by their unmanned Systems forces hit an oil refinery in Russia's Ryazan oblast that's about 100 km southeast of Moscow, about 400 ks northeast of Kharkiv. The independent telegram channel Astra said it's the third time this year that the Ryazan Oil Refining Company's facility had been hit after strikes on January 24th and 26th. Ukraine's general staff said five explosions had occurred. Ryazan Oblast Governor Pavel Malkov confirmed only that falling drone debris had caused a fire at one of the enterprises in the region. Andrey Kovalenko, you'll remember, he's head of Ukraine's center for Countering Disinformation, said that the Ryazan oil refinery is one of Russia's five largest such facilities and is used to produce fuel for Russia's big strategic long range bombers, the Tupolev 95 and the jet powered Tu 160. They're regularly launched to fire cruise missiles into Ukraine. The Kyiv Indy doing the reporting there. Now just a couple more. A little while ago I mentioned the International Support Ukraine summit happening in Kyiv today. European Commission President Urschel von der Leyen has just announced that Ukraine is going to get a new tranche of three and a half billion euros. That's about US$3.7 billion from the European Union in March. She said Europe is here to strengthen Ukraine at this critical moment. And then as the Kyiv Independent says, this year the EU is expected to provide Ukraine with 35 billion euros in financial assistance under the G7 extraordinary revenue acceleration Credit Initiative. And another one called the Ukraine facility program. The EU and its member states have provided 134 billion euros, that's 140 billion US dollars in support to Ukraine since the start of the full scale invasion, more than any other single country member Ms. Von der Leyen said in a very pointed statement. She said, thanks to our Ukraine facility and the G7 loan, we've closed Ukraine's budgetary gap for the entire year of 2025. And then just finally, Adelie for me, also being reported this morning, two Molotov cocktails, basically petrol bombs, were thrown into the garden of the Russian consulate building in Marseille in Southern France about 8am local time this morning. The Foreign Ministry in Paris have said France condemns any attack on the security of diplomatic rights of way. The inviolability, protection and integrity of diplomatic and consular rights of way, as well as their staff, are fundamental principles of international law. Russia's Foreign Ministry spokesperson, Maria Zakharova demanded a swift investigation and said the incident has, quote, all the hallmarks of a terrorist attack. Well, she would know, Adelaide, and that's us up to date.
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Adelie Pojman Ponte
Thank you, Dom. That was quite a hefty update. Now over to you, Francis, for the politics and the diplomacy of which there's also a lot this week.
- [19:17]
Well, yes, thanks, Adelaide. The most significant political news for us to discuss today is the huge German election result. But before I summarize that and its implications for Ukraine, a word first of all about the support for the country on this historic date, one none of us will ever forget. Thousands of people attended rallies across Europe in support of Ukraine over the weekend, including here in London, Prague, Brussels and Paris, never to be outdone when it comes to protests. Explosions, as Dom said, were heard at the Russian consulate in the French city of Marseille this morning after those Molotov cocktails were thrown. But 13 world leaders have arrived in Kyiv this morning to air raid sirens, including the leaders of Finland, the Denmark, Iceland, Norway and Sweden. The outgoing Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is also there. As discussed last week, it has been noteworthy how many countries in the wider west, including Canada, but also New Zealand and Australia, have been particularly alarmed about the implications for their own security following the recent remarks of President Trump. Trudeau's attendance is an acknowledgment of those concerns. Now, the President of the European Commission, Ernest von der Leyen, has also disembarked the familiar blue night train, one we all know here too well, in Kyiv this morning telling reporters that, and I quote, this marks three years since Russia launched its full scale invasion, a day that will forever live in infamy. Today we're hoisting the Ukrainian flag at our headquarters in Brussels. It is flying high and proud at the heart of Europe where it belongs. Shortly afterwards, a major summit began in Kyiv where other leaders such as Keir Starmer are speaking to underscore their support. We are covering that summit on our live blog. And Colin Freeman is there with former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson. And you'll hear from Colin very shortly. But let's turn to the major news of this morning, one which will have major implications for Ukraine and for Europe more widely. Olaf Scholz, the German Chancellor throughout the entirety of the war, since the full scale invasion is out with 69 year old Friedrich Merz leader of the centre right Christian Democratic Union poised to succeed him. Merz, as we know, is a more hawkish man. He is a long standing critic of Scholz's policy towards Ukraine, which he's considered too cautious, and he has not held back in his first interviews since the exit poll last night put him ahead of his rivals. Indeed, he warned, NATO could be finished and Europe must prepare to build an alliance independent from the United States. The continent may have to quickly establish an independent European defence capability, he said, emphasizing he had absolutely no illusions about Donald Trump, who pretty much no longer cares about the fate of the eu. Now, these comments are by far the the most radical we've heard from any European leader following the most significant foreign policy shift in the US since 1945. And it matters. It's likely that Germany will now move rapidly to raise defence spending to 3% of GDP, which equates to about 130 billion euros, and that would make it the world's third largest defence spender after the USA and China. But and it's a big one, it is unlikely Berlin will be able to change direction immediately. While Merz CDU are set to win the most seats in the Bundestag, the nature of German politics means that he will need to forge a coalition to govern. Merz says he wants to form that government by Easter, but that's in eight weeks time. Many will argue that Europe doesn't have that long to forge a new defence stance. We will all have to monitor very closely whether he signals a willingness to take part in any European peacekeeping force in Ukraine or indeed make any strong remarks until that government is forged. The other major development in Germany is how well the Ukraine skeptic Alternative Ver Deutschland Party, known as the AfD, did. They will not enter the coalition, but their size means they will be the official opposition and a powerful voice in German politics. They are most known for being strongly opposed to immigration, and it is worth saying that this German election result is the ultimate repudiation of former Chancellor Angela Merkel's philosophy and legacy. She was once lauded, but her stance on Russia, on defence and on domestic issues like immigration has now been firmly rejected by the German population and arguably by history. We are now truly in a new era for Europe, and if that were in doubt, Trump has continued his critiques of Europe and Ukraine over the weekend. The US and Ukraine, of course, have been working intensely over the past few days to hammer out the details of a revised version of the resources agreement after Zelenskyy rejected that initial proposal on the grounds it didn't offer concrete security guarantees. Well, surprise, surprise, Trump has lashed out, telling a conference of conservatives that we're going to get our money back because it's just not fair. We better be close to a deal now. As we know, Trump sees this deal as compensatory for the billions of dollars of support that the US has given Ukraine. But officials from both countries have indicated that they believe an agreement of some kind will be reached soon. Kyiv wants the US to feel it has an economic stake in in the country's future, though a draft of the new proposal seen by the New York Times provides no specific security guarantees for Ukraine. I want them to give us something for all of the money that we've put up, trump said. We're asking for rare earth and oil, anything we can get. Now many in Europe remain appalled at that transactional attitude. There are also concerns that as part of these specific negotiations, not the ones that took place in Saudi Arabia between Washington and Moscow, but these specific ones that the US has threatened to shut off Elon Musk's Starlink in Ukraine unless Kyiv agrees to that deal, something that Musk has now denied. But interestingly, Kyiv's defense minister has felt obliged to say this morning that Ukraine does have alternatives to Starlink, which of course is widely used by frontline units. Now, on Friday, I spent two and a half hours one on one with Dmitry Kuluba, the former foreign minister of Ukraine at the time of the full scale invasion, until September last year. He said something quite interesting in this context. He said that the minerals Trump wants are already wrapped up in a deal that Ukraine did with the EU several years ago. So why is the EU not saying so? He asked. And it's a good point. He also said something else that was interesting, namely that when people lament the absence of a great leader in Western Europe at the moment, that we forget the whole system, which was built after the Second World War on the continent, was to escape that very idea. It transferred powers to institutions like the EU and NATO instead. But he posited, what does it mean if these institutions themselves prove weak and indecisive? That is one of the critical questions that this war has posed, and we're still no clearer on an answer. You'll hear my interview with him later this week. But just in terms of the peace talks between Washington and Moscow, we are seeing more signs of the kind of deal Washington wants to carve out. Trump envoy Steve Witkoff says that the spring 2022 Istanbul talks should be the guidepost of A peace deal to end the war in Ukraine. But those talks, which are the very earliest ones after the full scale invasion, included no NATO accession and for many suggested that Ukraine would not have control of over its own defence, as many of us have speculated. Trump now reportedly does want to join Putin in Moscow for victory day on May 9, and wants a deal by then, one which could be seen as being predicated on an easing of sanctions on Russia. That could be very impactful. But the EU controls key parts of the sanctions regime, like access to the Swift payment system, most of those frozen reserves, the oil import embargo and access to its car industry. But the fear will be that the next time sanctions are tabled in the EU Parliament, that Hungary's Viktor Orban decides now is the time to block them. He wouldn't be able to block Britain's, but he could block the EU's, and that would be a huge moment indeed in terms of the economic warfare against Moscow. But ultimately it will be what London does in terms of defence spending and defence posture which will really matter. Sunday newspaper reports that British Prime Minister Keir Starmer will tell Donald Trump he intends to raise the UK defence spending from 2.3% to 2.5% of GDP before 2030 when he visits the White House later this week. But as one critic over the weekend pointed out, if he thinks that's going to impress Trump, he better not go. It's a pathetic response, this person said, to the glaring need to rearm in an increasingly dangerous world. And Trump doesn't do decimal points. As we reported last week, Stalin will be going at the same time as French President Emmanuel Macron, who is likely going to stress that Ukraine must be at the heart of peace negotiations. Indeed, he said this morning, I'm going to tell Trump, you can't be weak against Putin. It's not you, it's not your trademark, and it's not in your interest. Which brings me finally to the extraordinary remark by President Zelenskyy over the weekend that he would be willing to step down from office for peace in exchange for NATO membership for Ukraine. That is clearly designed to stress to America that he is not the dictator Trump labeled him as, but also to underscore how for him it remains the security guarantees that are pivotal for the future. But what if the US is not prepared to give those guarantees? Will Europe stand up and offer them? The answer to that question will define the coming decades for Ukraine and for the entire continent. Germany now has an opportunity to fulfil the role many hoped it would this time three years ago. But will it seize the opportunity? Adelie?
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Thank you, Francis. And now we're joined by our correspondent in Kyiv, Colin Freeman. Colin, what can you tell us about the mood there as we mark the third anniversary? Is it quite somber?
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Colin Freeman
Yes. So I'm talking to you from Kiev and where I've been for about the last week. I'm actually in a hotel at a conference. More details of which later. I would sum up the mood as pretty much keep calm and carry on. I know that's an old cliched wartime saying from Britain during World War II, but it does pretty accurately sum it up here. Every time I come here, I make a point of asking people what the mood is. I usually do a little vox pop of 10, 15, 20 people. Whoever I'm speaking to. And to be honest, every time I've come here in the last three years, I've been there about 10 times. I would say the answer is nearly always the same. It's grim, it's tough, we're tired, but we keep going. And I don't really sense any difference in the. The mood music here. Now, that may be the sort of slightly trite comment that maybe people reserve for foreigners in this situation. You could say that. But I've been to other places in my reporting career where that is not the case, covering Iraq and other parts of the world where people do make it pretty clear if they're not happy and if they think that that particular country's foreign partners, I.e. the west, should be doing more. You, as a reporter are often a lightning rod for that. You get collared in the street, you get lectured during interviews. Why the hell isn't the west doing more? Da, da, da, da, da. And you can sometimes be a focus for anger, and never has that happened once while I've been here in Ukraine. Nonetheless, of course, today is a pretty somber moment. It's a time when people reflect on how things are. I'm always struck by a comment that people President Zelensky made two years ago to this day, when he had his anniversary press conference and he was asked how he would feel if Ukraine had not won the war by the second anniversary press conference that he would have to hold. And he said, I'm sorry, that's just not something I really want to think about at all. That is a ghastly reality. We will all be exhausted. Far more people will have died. I really don't want to think about it. And yet here we are, not just two years in, but three years in and also with the sense that Donald Trump may force the country into some sort of peace deal that it doesn't really want, that if nothing else, it will rob them of a kind of VE Day, a victory in Europe day where the fighting stops and everybody can come out and have a big party instead. It seems that if, if some sort of deal is reached, it's going to be in fairly sullen fashion sense that Ukraine has not been given the fruits of victory that it perhaps was looking forward to three years ago. Also just sort of draw a contrast with how things were when I was here three years ago. I first set foot in Kyiv on about March the first, about six or six days, no, four days into the war, five days into the war, and the city was absolutely deserted. There was lots of air raid sirens going off. You didn't see any fighting. You heard occasional missiles going off early in the mornings. But what you did notice was just the complete absence of people on the streets. The only people around were many street dwellers and so on. You saw lots of crashed cars on the roadsides, driven by people who were just panicking and had been driving at high speed and come unstuck. It was a very different atmosphere to how it is today. The sun is shining and, you know, it's, it's a beautiful, crisp win today. I would not say the, the mood is good. The mood is, is resigned, but, you know, relatively defined. I've certainly not sensed any big sea change or anybody talking about a need suddenly to have some kind of peace deal, to compromise on and on territory or anything like that.
- [34:17]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
Thank you, Colin. And last year when I was in Kyiv with the rest of the team, we saw a lot of civilian gatherings, protests, some calling for the liberation of the Azov battalion. And when we were in Irpin in November for the 1000 day of the, of the invasion, we saw a lot of, like, civilian commemorations for people who had died during the war. Have you seen similar things?
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Colin Freeman
I would imagine, yes, there will be a number of events. There are very few officially scheduled or officially sanctioned public events because they're deemed to present Russians with a, with a potential missile target. But certainly I went while I've been wandering around town, Independence Square, for example, where my hotel is near, nearly every day there is some sort of commemorative event going on there, whether it's honoring war dead or campaigning for the government to do more to locate prisoners, people, people either held prisoner by the Russians or missing in action. So there was lots of that sort of thing. To give you an example, what, what there's this little sort of video kiosk that I wanted parts yesterday that has three screens and each one shows the image of a fallen soldier and it changes every few seconds. And that screen is running all day. You know, you are confronted certainly with the. With the enormity of the cost of the war. There are pictures of fallen soldiers everywhere on every street corner. The war is certainly with you visually here all the time. In terms of those kind of wartime messages, I wouldn't call it propaganda quite, but that is ever present, even in the days of the tank traps and the soldiers standing nervously on guard at checkpoints and the sandbagged chicanes are perhaps no longer very evident here.
- [36:06]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
Do you want to tell us about your conversation with Boris Johnson?
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Dom Nichols
Yes.
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Colin Freeman
So he's here on what must be his umpteenth visit here. Of course, listeners to the podcast will remember that he was the first, I think, major Western leader to visit Kiev back in March of 2022. He's been here numerous times since. He seemed to be attempting to sort of try and play the role of peacemaker between Kiev and Washington. We didn't ask him whether he was going to be having any word with Mr. Trump or Mr. Zelensky, but he said he probably would be. And he might well have had conversations with them already, but they were staying confidential for now.
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Adelie Pojman Ponte
Thank you, Colin. I'm sure you have a long day of reporting still ahead of you. Let's actually cast our minds back to Downing street when Boris Johnson was Prime Minister. Joining us today is David Blair. David, you used to be the Telegraph chief foreign correspondent and you're now back as chief foreign affairs commentator. Today is actually your first day on the job, so welcome back. Three years ago you worked with Boris Johnson, the then Prime Minister, on foreign affairs. Can you please take us back to that day? How did you find out about the invasion and what was it like at number 10?
- [37:21]
David Blair
Thanks, Adeline. It's great to be back at the Daily Telegraph. I was woken up at 5 in the morning on this day three years ago by a call from the Prime Minister's military assistant in number 10. And he told me the invasion had begun and that the PM had just got off the phone from Zelensky and Zelenskyy had told him the Russians were attacking on multiple fronts and that cruise missiles were exploding all over Ukraine and all this was unfolding right now. And the military assistant then told me, the PM is going to deliver a statement in the House later today and you need to get on and write It. So I got out of bed and I started typing immediately.
- [38:01]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
So how did you approach writing this address that he gave to the house later that day?
- [38:07]
David Blair
Yeah, I should just add one detail, which is, on this day of all days, I couldn't actually get to my desk in 10 Downing street because the trains in my part of East Sussex were screwed up on that day. So everything I did, I did from home. And I really wanted the statement to go beyond ritual condemnation of Putin and try to capture the historic significance and the sheer horror of what was unfolding at that moment. And it struck me that now that Russian tanks were surging across the frontier of a European country, no one any longer had any excuse for doubting that Putin was an imperialist aggressor. And so I inserted the phrase, now we see him for what he is, a blood stained aggressor who believes in imperial conquest. And when I wrote that, I thought for a moment, you know, I'm going to have to send this draft speech to some of the most senior diplomats in the country, and they tend to be cautious, as they should be. Will that line actually get through? And to their great credit, no one objected. And that line appeared exactly in the statement and was delivered by Boris. I also wanted to drive home just how clear Boris's policy objective was. And he had already expressed this at the Munich Security Conference a few days earlier. And he had said, if this invasion happens, Putin must fail. And so I wrote that now we have a clear mission, diplomatically, politically, economically and eventually militarily. This hideous and barbaric venture of Vladimir Putin must end in failure. And my final objective was I wanted to try and communicate to Ukrainians who might be listening in Ukraine to the Prime Minister, just how much we supported them. And that was quite hard to do. But I had one advantage, which was eight years previously, back in 2014, I had been in Kiev covering the revolution for the Daily Telegraph alongside the great Roland Oliphant, friend of this podcast. And I had heard echoing across the Maidan, amid the sniper's bullets, the cry, slava, Ukrainian. And so I wrote as the peroration. And to our Ukrainian friends, in this moment of agony, I say, we are with you. We are on your side. Your right to choose your own destiny is a right the United Kingdom and our allies will always defend. And in that spirit, I join you in saying, Slava, Ukraini. And afterwards, every British politician started to say, slava, Ukraine in their speeches, but actually, Boris was the first to do it, but only because I had actually been in The Maidan eight years previously for the Daily Telegraph.
- [40:42]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
I can't believe southern trains and railways feature so importantly on account of the first day of the invasion. Three years on, what were the most pressing things that you worked on and what was the mood like at number 10 then the rest of that week?
- [40:56]
David Blair
Well, what followed was that Boris Johnson gave another speech in Warsaw a few weeks later. So I got to work on that pretty quickly. But at the time, it's well known, of course, that we had a very good idea that the invasion was going to happen. It's also true that our experts believed that the likelihood was that Russia would succeed, that Kiev was their Day Three objective and they may not achieve it quite that quickly. But our experts believe that the likelihood was that the Russians would capture Kyiv, that they would overrun all or most of Ukraine, and that Zelenskyy would probably either be overthrown or forced into exile. So from the perspective of three years later, I still find it extraordinary that Zelenskyy today is not only in his capital, he's welcoming world leaders to his capital. He's spoken to so many parliaments around the world, I've lost count, including our Parliament and the United States Congress, and he controls 80% of Ukraine. Now, from the perspective of where things stood three years ago, I still find that astonishing.
- [41:57]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
What are you able to tell us about the sort of conversations that Boris Johnson and Zelenskyy were having in those first few days? We know they spoke a lot.
- [42:06]
David Blair
Obviously they spoke frequently and just in general terms. When they spoke, Zelenskyy would, would describe the situation on the ground and he would specify the weapons that, that, that he needed from his friends. And the Prime Minister's attitude in general was whatever we can give you, we will give you. And I should say that a question that was raised was what effect are the weapons that we've already supplied? What effect are they having on the ground? One point that I felt very strongly when I wrote the statement that the PM delivered on this day was that we could speak with credibility because a few weeks earlier, Britain had sent 2,000 NLaw anti tank missiles to Ukraine. We weren't the first to supply weapons to Ukraine. Various countries in Europe have been doing that quietly for quite a long time, but we were the first to do it openly and overtly at the outset of this crisis. So we had actually acted. And as to the question of what effect those missiles were having, there was a crucial moment the following day, 25th February 2022, when Roland Oliphant filed a story in the Daily Telegraph from outside Kharkiv, where he was alongside a detachment of Ukrainian soldiers who had British supplied N LAW missiles and had just used them to knock out a bunch of Russian tanks. And Roland had the photographs to show it. So as soon as I saw that story, I sent it to the Prime Minister and I said, our N laws are being put to good use.
- [43:34]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
That's very vindicating. You mentioned the speech that you wrote for Bora Boris Johnson on that very first day. A lot of it still rings true three years later. But looking back, did you expect to be here commenting on the invasion three years down the line? And would you change any of what you wrote back then?
- [43:52]
David Blair
I'm not sure I would. And I do. If I think about what I was probably expecting three years ago, I don't think I would have expected that three years later Ukraine would still be fighting hard and that Zelenskyy's government would still be in control of the vast bulk of the country. That is an extraordinary performance. So when I see the statements recently from President Trump and his team, I sort of wonder whether they're like people who stumble upon a Netflix season and they've missed the first series. You know, did they notice the episodes at the beginning where the Ukrainians halted the Russian advance on Kiev, eviscerated Russian tank columns outside, outside Kiev, and then mounted these massive counteroffensives later in the year in 2022, recapturing Kherson pushing the Russians back from Kharkiv? I mean, these were astonishing military achievements. The moral of, in fact, the whole tragedy of the last three years is proof of a saying that I think is normally attributed to Napoleon, that the moral is to the material as 10 to 1. Domin Francis here, a great historian, Ukrainians will correct me if I've got that wrong, but the moral force that Ukrainians had fighting for their own country, fighting successfully, is a moral force that has not faded. And I don't think it will fade.
- [45:07]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
What do you think number 10 meant when the government said, we will support Ukraine for as long as it takes? And what does it say about, you know, Boris Johnson remains one of the most liked political figures to this day in Ukraine, and Starmer's stance has been criticized for being milder. What do you make of that? As long as it takes and the evolution of that British stance throughout the conflict?
- [45:28]
David Blair
Well, I think another remarkable and really very encouraging thing is that the cross party consensus in Britain behind support for Ukraine has held for the last three years and shows no sign whatever of weakening. And the current prime minister, Keir Starmer. His rhetorical style may be different from Boris Johnson's, but the substance of his policy is the same. And I don't think there's any prospects of that changing. And I remember being in number 10, it's a remarkable position to be in when you offer help to a country that's at war with the world's biggest nuclear power. The only political pressure that we were under was to do more. Whatever help we offered to Ukraine, you could be sure there would be a consensus behind it. And the only question we will be asked is, why aren't you doing more? So that gives the government much more freedom of action. It applied to the last government, and I think it applies to the current one as well.
- [46:21]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
And now, Dom Francis. We've all here been to Kyiv. We've all been to Kharkiv. So how is your Ukrainian and how is your Russian?
- [46:30]
Dom Nichols
Of dubious quality.
- [46:32]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
Unworthy.
- [46:33]
Well, you are in luck because using state of the art technology from today, each episode of Ukraine, the latest is also translated into Ukrainian and into Russian so that people on both sides of the battle lines and across the region, including Central Asia and the Caucasus, have access to our reporting.
- [46:57]
Dom Nichols
That's amazing.
- [46:57]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
Absolutely fascinating. Dom said in Ukrainian that a native speaker will be reviewing the translations for accuracy.
- [47:08]
Dom Nichols
Aletserv sestie experimentalno.
- [47:11]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
But it's still experimental.
- [47:12]
Dom Nichols
And just to be clear, this is AI helping to present our journalism, not produce it.
- [47:18]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
Well done, boys. In the show notes, you will find links to the Ukrainian and Russian translations. We need your help to spread the word. So if you know Ukrainians abroad or Russian speakers across Central Asia and the caucuses who might want access to our report reporting, please let them know.
- [47:36]
Yes, as Adelaide says, we're doing something really experimental here at the cutting edge of what is technologically possible. So we really need your help to make it a success.
- [47:47]
Dom Nichols
Thanks for helping us spread the word and let us know what you think.
- [47:56]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
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- [48:51]
12 month plan taxes and fees.
- [48:52]
Extra speeds may slow after 50 gigabytes.
- [48:54]
Per month when network is busy, see terms.
- [48:57]
Dom Nichols
We interrupt this program to bring you.
- [48:59]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
An important Wayfair message. Wayfair's got style tips for every home. This is Stiles Mackenzie helping you make those rooms sing. Today's style tip when it comes to making a statement, treat bold patterns like neutrals. Go wild like an untamed animal. Print area rug under a rustic farmhouse table. From wayfair.com fierce this has been your Wayfair style tip to keep those interiors superior.
- [49:24]
Colin Freeman
Wayfair Every style, every home.
- [49:29]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
Boris Johnson is currently in the Ukrainian capital. To mark the anniversary, our correspondent on the ground, Colin Freeman, that you heard earlier in this episode, sat down with the former PM for an exclusive interview. Here's their conversation.
- [49:44]
Colin Freeman
Thanks very much for doing this in the first place. Podcast listeners will be very pleased to hear from you. Perhaps you could just start by telling us you visited Kyiv many, many times before starting right at the beginning of the war. What is your sense of the mood here at the moment?
- [50:01]
Look, I think everybody's been very shocked by some of the language that has come out of Washington. And to be frank, I've been taken aback by the untruths that we're hearing about the war, the origins of the war. I think people are very phlegmatic, though, and they're very determined and they're going to win. People are fighting for their country. You know, they're going to receive many, many setbacks. And I think that they're also looking at what's underneath all this. And they kind of know with Donald Trump that he's trying to make a deal and he's pushing them. He's pushing Europeans, he's also trying to push the Russians, and it's difficult.
- [50:39]
You've been a supporter of Ukraine, obviously, you've also been a supporter of Mr. To Trump. You said last year you thought a Trump victory would be a good thing for Ukraine. Do you still think that?
- [50:50]
Well, I'm still hopeful. I'm still hopeful. Look what is a good thing? Peace is a good thing, but it can't be peace on Putin's terms.
- [50:59]
Are you worried he's going to betray Ukraine?
- [51:01]
I don't think he can. And this is really why I was. I think Trump is a change maker and a disruptor. And we were in a terrible logic of supporting Ukraine with just enough to keep them going, but never giving them enough to win. We were never saying what the ultimate future for Ukraine should be. Now, if you look at this minerals document, actually, that commits the United States under Donald Trump to a free, sovereign and secure Ukraine. It commits the United States to continue to support Ukraine financially. And, you know, whether you take. Take it literally or not, it commits the United States, at least in theory, to a gigantic economic partnership with Ukraine. Now, that is very significant because essentially what the Ukrainians are fighting for is the freedom not to be controlled by Putin. You've said this takes them a long way away from that.
- [51:51]
You've said, though, that Trump is a man of deeds, not words. But a lot of Ukrainians will be listening to his words. He's saying that they elect a dictator. He's saying that they started the war. These are people who fought and died for that country. It's downright offensive.
- [52:08]
It is offensive. And I said this morning and repeatedly over the last few, few days, I think it's the most egregious piece of victim blaming I've ever seen. And to say that Ukraine started the war is nauseating. It's pure Kremlin propaganda. I was there. I remember vividly when it started. You know, it's absolute bullshit, and it's a disgrace that we're hearing this kind of thing. It's like blaming the United States for brutally attacking Japan at Pearl Harbor. You know, it's rubbish and it is offensive to the soldiers. I think if we can, we have to keep cool and focus on what the President is actually saying and doing. As I say, I think if you look at the. The minerals agreement, there are. And people in Ukraine won't like it. All of it. There will be bits that they think are extortionate. But I think actually it's a good deal for Ukraine because not a penny piece of those profits will go to this joint investment fund unless there's a free, sovereign and secure Ukraine. And America is putting itself in the position where it's going to play a role in ensuring that it gets those proceeds. And to engage, as Winston Churchill discovered in the Second World War, to engage America in your future is a very, very important Thing for a European country.
- [53:34]
Talking of the way forward, Keir Starmer is off to Washington this week to meet with President Trump. What would be your advice to him? What is he not doing at the moment?
- [53:43]
Look, I think he said some good things. But what is needed now is action on the European side of the peace enforcement plan. So we need, so I think the two powers that were signatories to the Budapest memorandum in 94, Britain and France, the nuclear powers that then didn't honor that memorandum allowed Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons and then to be attacked. Those countries have a moral obligation to work together. You know, doesn't have to be under NATO umbrella. Of course not. But to set up a structure so that we are peace enforcing in not war fighting, but helping the Ukrainians, protecting them, training them, giving them munitions. And one thing I would say to UK people listening to what about the cost of, you know, going up to 3%, which we should do by the way. The other thing I would say he needs to go back to my, what we said at Madrid in 2022, we should get a 3% by 2030, not 2.5% of defense spending. It's, you know, 3, 2 point. It's not enough. And this can be good for the UK economy and for jobs and growth in the UK we are well beating in defense industries, drone technology, you know, many of the things that ways we're helping the Ukrainians. This can drive employment in Bristol, in Lancashire, across the country. You know, we want to get some growth out of the UK let's go for it. And it's a great, great cause. So I think what is needed, he needs a strategy with the French for the European Protection Security Force, whatever we're going to call it, that will make use of American intelligence and logistics and everything else. Because Tom is right that we'll need that as well. But I think that will be forthcoming if and only if he, the Prime Minister and other Europeans now take the initiative, go to the White House and say bang, flap it on the table and say that is the plan and all we want from you is what you've been doing anyway, which is your long distance support.
- [55:46]
What do you think about the fact that Tusk and Sholtz have ruled out.
- [55:50]
I think it's disappointing troops. Look, I understand the historic reasons why. I mean both countries, to be frank, have historic experiences of invading Ukraine. I mean let's be absolutely brutal about this. The poles in the 1920s under Marshal Pisudski and the Germans in the Second World War. I Think there's a bit of that, a bit of anxiety. But I think certainly Poland will be there in the end. Poland will be there and other countries will be there.
- [56:15]
Will you get an acceptable peace deal without the presence of those other big nations?
- [56:20]
No, because I think that everybody needs to be there, as many people as possible. And just for the reason. What is it that Putin wants? He wants to be able to tell Ukraine. No, Ukraine, you can't, you can't align yourselves with the West. I, Putin, I decide what type of troops you have in Ukraine. I, Putin, I decide whether you can aspire to NATO membership. You put British boots on the ground in any capacity. Large European force on the ground in Ukraine, you are annihilating Putin's claims to control of Ukraine. You do this minerals deal with the US you are plainly beginning a process of aligning Ukraine economically with the United States, not with Ukraine. Corrupt kleptocracy in Russia, that's a positive thing.
- [57:11]
Can I ask you about the nuclear issue? If America begins to take a back seat, you are left with France and Britain as the primary nuclear powers. Do you think there should be a European nuclear button of some sort?
- [57:25]
No, I can answer that very quickly. No, I don't. I never considered that a useful addition to global security. I think it would fail. I think it would probably fail the non proliferation test. Apart from anything else.
- [57:39]
I take it you feel the same about Ukraine getting one as they have hinted.
- [57:42]
Look, I think it's up to the Ukraine to make that case. I think they have an honest and reasonable case that they gave up their nuclear capabilities on the understanding that they would be protected. Those protections were not forthcoming. So they have a moral case to, to use nuclear weapons currently. However, if they simply advance to equip themselves with nuclear weapons, that would clearly be a breach of the npt.
- [58:08]
So would you back them? Would you stand with them if they, as you stood with Ukraine so far on other things, they have suddenly said, this is what we're doing.
- [58:16]
I think they need to make the case, but in a legal and transparent way. You know, I can see the strength of that case. I really, I really can. I don't like the idea of countries acquiring more nuclear weapons. I think one of the miracles of the last 85 years is that so few countries have actually acquired those weapons. But I can see Ukraine's moral case. They couldn't just do it illegally and they would need to explain and why they were doing it and they need to make a formal proposition. But they haven't done that so far and they can win without doing that. I would rather frankly that they won without doing that.
- [58:58]
Have you spoken to Mr. Zelensky or Mr. Trump in recent weeks or are you playing?
- [59:03]
I have, but I don't want to go into the conversations that I've had. I'm an active supporter of Ukraine. My positions are well known. I just got to try and keep making the case.
- [59:20]
You've made it very clear your thoughts about the language that's come out of Washington in the last couple of weeks. I think in some earlier comments you used the phrase clinical insanity.
- [59:30]
Did I?
- [59:30]
Yeah.
- [59:31]
I wouldn't disagree with that.
- [59:33]
I mean, in that event, I mean, is the world, is the west going to trust Mr. Trump? If there was a moment, a modern equivalent, a Cuban missile crisis, now some kind of triggering of Article 5, does Mr. Trump have the confidence of the Western world to handle that if it comes to a flare up with Mr. Putin?
- [59:51]
I think so. Look, I think the fundamental, the reason why I remain basically optimistic and my position hasn't changed despite all the stuff. I think that it's very, very difficult to see how don't Trump can allow himself to be beaten by Vladimir Putin and that the logic of that position entails continuing support for freedom and democracy in Ukraine.
- [60:17]
Do you think Article 5 still holds?
- [60:19]
Are you confident that I do? I was a bit worried about. I think it's very important that it should hold and it does.
- [60:27]
And the Ukrainians I've been speaking to some of the soldiers and quite a lot of the population as well that I've spoken to in the last few days here, a lot of them are saying, look, we will fight on regardless of whether I think they will. The Americans and anyone else supplies them with weapons. Do you think they're capable of doing that?
- [60:44]
Not only that, I think they are. I think they are. Look, Ukraine has chosen to be free. And by the way, you know, from. It's not for me to comment on domestic politics, but from Volodymyr Zelensky I would think has been probably politically strengthened, if anything, by attacks from outside governments on him and on his legitimacy. I don't have any evidence for that, but that's my instinct.
- [61:07]
And have you, you've been such a prominent supporter of Mr. Zelensky and Ukraine's cause. Would you consider taking on any extra role as a sort of go between if he, if he invited you?
- [61:19]
Of course, of course. But I mean, I think, you know, you can't be more Ukrainian than the Ukrainians. Only the Ukrainians know in Their hearts. I know what I want. I want a free, sovereign, independent Ukraine. I believe that America is committed to that. I know that that's what the Ukrainians want, but it's up to them to, to do it. I will, of course, continue to make the case in any way I can, but you can't be more Ukrainian than the Ukrainian. Are you remotely. Actually, my, my. I discovered that my, my Turkish great great grandmother was a Circassian slave. And the Circassian, as you know, is a Ukrainian.
- [61:55]
Yeah.
- [61:56]
So there you go. She was a Circassian slave woman. So I can, I can claim Ukrainian ancestry.
- [62:01]
I sense my next assignment coming up, which will be to try and find, you know, that she was.
- [62:08]
She was. Don't remember her name. Anyway, my great great grandfather literally bought her, as you did in those days.
- [62:18]
Do you ever get death threats? Have you ever had any serious death threats or plots against you as a result of your prominent support?
- [62:26]
Not that I know of. I'm sure there are, there are bits and pieces on the security side that, you know, occasionally they have to be tidied up, but it's fine.
- [62:34]
And have you ever considered taking any kind of job here in Ukraine in.
- [62:38]
The way that, Well, I mean, once Ukraine is free and prosperous and we've all done our jobs and everything's fine, I one day hope to come and give some talks on my forthcoming books. Something like that.
- [62:52]
And just finally, on this 300 billion, what is it that's unlocking people? Unlocking.
- [62:56]
I'm sorry, but you know, we listen to this nonsense about how we live in a post NATO age. You know, Europe can do it by itself. Donne moi a break. You know, where is the European army, where is the European logistical power, the air cover, whatever, to do all this? But on the 300 billion, we spent three years gassing on about it. We gas on about NATO membership here in the sort of safety of these conferences. When did you hear an important European government, Germans, campaign for NATO membership, campaign for the 300 billion to be released. Campaign for the proper European peacekeeping force in Ukraine. You know, we say these things, but then they're not actually official government policy.
- [63:45]
Who could it be who could sort of just sign off?
- [63:48]
The Prime Minister. The Prime Minister needs to tell the treasury doesn't like it.
- [63:51]
David Blair
Right.
- [63:52]
Colin Freeman
But you know, we did it with Saddam Hussein. We should distrain, take these assets, unfreeze them, set them off against the damage that's been done to Ukraine and use them to compensate all those who are supporting, use them to help the Ukrainians but also help them to pay for continuing military engagement. And we won't do it. We all say it. People, ministers come and say it in gatherings like this, but then they go home and the Treasurys, the finance ministries are saying, no, no, no, no, no, we couldn't possibly do that. So, you know, we're either serious or we aren't. And as a matter Trump can see that. Trump can see the fundamental lack of determination.
- [64:37]
Anything else to we haven't discussed.
- [64:40]
I think we've covered, we've covered the waterfront, Colin. I think we are poor. You know, readers, viewers have probably had acres from me now.
- [64:49]
Okay.
- [64:50]
Good luck.
- [64:50]
Thank you very much for your time.
- [64:55]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
On to our final thoughts. Dom, would you want to start?
- [64:59]
Dom Nichols
Yeah. Thanks, Adelie. A few if I, if I may, just come to me in the last, last hour or so. Fascinating to, to be here with David. Thank you so much for joining us today. It was actually three to one. The moral to the physical Napoleon, but I didn't want to, didn't want to say anything and please mention Napoleon. Well, exactly. I don't want to set you off as well. And I didn't know until you mentioned it that you penned the words that we've been running in the start of the intro to our podcast that those words about the hideous and barbaric venture that Prime Minister Boris Johnson said on the floor of the House didn't know that came from your pen pen of then a former Daily Telegraph journalist and now back with us. So if you want to know what's happening in the corridors of power, folks, he needs to listen to us. I was also thrilled to hear that on that first day, on that day of all days, you were actually working from home. Don't tell Jacob Rees Mock. Anyway, a couple for me, Adli. So today, an interesting tweet from Shashank Joshi, our friend and colleague at the Economist. He said he set forward, he set out a hypothesis. He says we're seeing a split in Europe between radicals, for example, Friedrich Merz warning NATO might vanish by June and engagers like the UK who think the priority is to engage Trump to shape Ukraine diplomacy, keeping the US Engaged, even if at a lower level of presence and commitment. Discuss, says Shashank. So discuss indeed. I'd be really interested in your thoughts. Are we seeing a split between the radicals and the engagers? What do you reckon? Folks, you know more about this than I do, so I'd be really interested in your thoughts. And finally, finally, Adli for me today is of course estonia's Independence Day. 107 years of independence today for Estonia, staunch supporter of Ukraine. Very happy Independence Day to Estonia. Thank you very much to the embassy here in London for sending me the celebratory video they put together. Although when it popped into my email inbox this morning, it was quite, quite early in the day. A bit early to watch Ambassador Villa Luby in a hot tub in the woods somewhere, wearing only his pants and a nice warm hat. But anyway, happy Independence Day, Estonia.
- [67:03]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
Happy Independence Day, Estonia, indeed. Francis, do you want to take it up?
- [67:07]
Well, thanks, Adlie, and thanks, Dom, for that rather horrifying thought. It's a surreal and, of course, sobering experience. Recording today. Three years feels like a lifetime ago and yet no time at all. I remember that day so vividly here at the Telegraph, and yet we passed 800 episodes of the podcast the other week. It's, as I say, just a very surreal day. We're, of course, really proud to bring you these translated versions of the podcast that retains our voices. If you're in Kyiv this week and are near Gulav Amal on Sportunievna Square, you will see billboards promoting the project, which ends with the phrase we are still with you in Ukrainian. And we are. We haven't actually seen what they look like yet, by the way, so if you're listening to this and can send us a quick snap, please do. We'd love to see them. I think they're also on the metro as well, so, yes, keep an eye out for those. I should also add that for Ukrainian speakers, if you listen to that version of the podcast, you'll hear a special recorded message by Veleiy Zaluzhny, the former commander in chief of the Ukrainian Armed forces, of course, and now British ambassador. He recorded that exclusively for us. We'll have a link in the show notes to that. Of course, he is speaking in Ukrainian. But just lastly, while we're of course excited to be able to expand our coverage and bring you this new project, it's also bittersweet for us that David can't be here to see is in his memory that the team here continues to expand its reporting. So please do help us spread the word about the new project to your friends and contacts. I know he would have appreciated it.
- [68:54]
Thank you, Francis. I think of David every time I turn the mic on when I host the podcast. David Blair, do you want to wrap up the episode with your final thoughts?
- [69:06]
David Blair
Just one thought, prompted by the fact that today is Estonia Independence Day, I'm reminded that Estonia fought a very brave and successful war against Russia a century ago with British support and won their independence. And that I hope is a precedent.
- [69:27]
Adelie Pojman Ponte
The latest is an original podcast from the Telegraph created by David Knowles to support our work and stay on top of all of our Ukraine news, analysis and dispatches from the ground. Please subscribe to the Telegraph. You can get your first three months for just one pound at telegraph.co.uk Ukraine the latest or sign up to Dispatches or Foreign Affairs Newsletter bringing stories from award winning foreign correspondents straight to your inbox. We also have a Ukraine Live blog on our website where you can follow updates as they come throughout the day, including insights from regular contributors to this podcast. We also do the same for other breaking international stories. You can listen to this conversation live at 1pm London time each weekday on Xspaces. Follow the Telegraph on X, formerly known as Twitter so that you don't miss it. To our listeners on YouTube, please note that due to issues beyond our control, there is sometimes a delay between broadcast and upload. So if you want to hear Ukraine the Latest as soon as it is released, do refer to the podcast apps. If you appreciated this podcast, please consider following Ukraine the Latest on your preferred podcast app and leave us a review. It really helps others find the show. Please also share it with those who may not be aware we exist. You can also get in touch directly with us to ask questions or give comments by emailing ukrainepodelegraph.co.uk we do continue to read every message. You can also contact us directly on X. You can find our handles in the description for this episode. As ever, we're especially interested to hear where you're listening from around the world. Ukraine the latest was today produced by Phil Atkins. Executive producers are Louisa Wells and David Knowles.
- [71:25]
The new year brings new health goals and wealth goals.
- [71:28]
David Blair
Protecting your identity is an important step.
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Colin Freeman
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Dom Nichols
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Colin Freeman
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Dom Nichols
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Adelie Pojman Ponte
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Dom Nichols
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Colin Freeman
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Dom Nichols
Acast Powers the World's Best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend.
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Adelie Pojman Ponte
The Real Housewives is a guilty pleasure for most, but if you're looking to not feel guilty about that pleasure, tune in to everything iconic with me, Danny Pellegrino, where I break down all the messy moments and behind the scenes antics of Bravo's popular franchise. And on Everything Iconic, I also interview celebrity guests like Kelly Ripa, Keke Palmer, Drew Barrymore, Cameron Diaz and more about their guilty pleasures, their past work, and so much more. So if you're pop culture obsessed and find yourself watching way too much reality TV like me, tune in to Everything Iconic with Danny Pellegrino. Wherever you listen to podcasts.
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Dom Nichols
ACAST helps.
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David Blair
Creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.
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Adelie Pojman Ponte
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