← Ukraine: The Latest
Ukraine: The Latest
Exclusive: 72 hours dodging Russia’s ‘drone safari’ in Kherson & Did NATO sink a Russian ship carrying nuclear reactors to North Korea?
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- [00:04]
Taryn
The telegraph.
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David Knowles
ACAST powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend.
- [00:19]
Taryn
Do you want to know the best part about being married to a woman? That there's no man involved. I mean, true, but I was going to say that it's a sleepover every single night with your best friend. Oh, yeah, that part's cute too. I'm Taryn, she's Cami. We're married. And staying up is our weekly pillow talk out loud with you. We're giggling, we're gossiping, we're arguing. Classic marriage stuff. Just having fun, being wives while we navigate growing up and building a family together. Then our sleepover grows. Our listeners call the pee hotline with their own gossip, burning questions, late night spirals, all the stuff they'd only tell their best friends. So it's a private sleepover, but you are invited. Staying up with Taryn and Cammie. New episodes weekly follow wherever you listen.
- [00:58]
David Knowles
ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.
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Francis Dernley
I'm Francis Dernley and this is Ukraine. The latest today as Russia unleashes another huge aerial assault across Ukraine as President Trump insists the war could end soon. We examine Kyiv's race to develop a new weapon and report on a deadly strike that the UN says hit one of its trucks. Then we bring you the latest from the NATO eastern flank summit in Romania as allies confront mounting fears over regional security. And later, in a special report from Kherson, a Telegraph journalist is forced to flee for cover as Russian drones hunt targets above the city.
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David Knowles
Bravery takes you through the most unimaginable hardships to finally reward you with victory.
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Francis Dernley
Russia does not want peace.
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David Knowles
If I'm president, I will have that war settled in one day. 24 hours. We are with you. Not just today or tomorrow, but for 100 years.
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Adrian Blomfield
On Ukraine.
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Francis Dernley
Nobody's going to break us.
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David Knowles
We are strong. We are Ukrainians.
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Francis Dernley
It's Wednesday 13 May, four years and 78 days since the full scale invasion began. And today I'm joined by our associate editor of Defense here at the Telegraph, Dom Nichols. And later our senior foreign correspondent, Adrian Blomfield in Ukraine. But first, over to Dom, as ever, for the latest in the military realm.
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David Knowles
Well, hi, Francis. Hi, everybody. So, as you say, there is currently a huge aerial attack on Ukraine, mainly in the centre, south and west of the country. This is the live air alert app. That is the live picture right now. What are we? Half two. Half two ish. Wednesday afternoon London time. So that is live In Ukraine right now. The red area is where the strikes are happening right now. As I say, mainly in the in the center or from the center to the west of the country. The first air raid sirens sounded around at 11 o' clock local this morning. It's thought there were 200 drones in the first wave. And as of around midday local Ukraine time, the Ukrainian Air Force said that eight groups of shahed type drones were still in the air, including a fresh wave coming in from the Black Sea. A Ukrainian channel called Monitor published data shortly after that showing groups of long range drones entering Ukrainian airspace from Belarus, flying over the Chernobyl area towards the country's northwest. That group says that more drones then entered Ukraine from the Black Sea area, headed west towards Ivano, Frankivsk, Chernivsky and Ternopil oblasts. They're all in the west. Look, Lutsk, the city over there is reported to have been hit by at least one shahed drone. There's some footage of that that I've seen. Ukrainian authorities say Russia has launched a quote combined prolonged airstrike on critical infrastructure across the whole country. The last I checked a few moments ago, three people reported dead, killed by a drone strike on a residential building in western Rivney Oblast. That's right in the northwest of the country. Five reported injured so far. I mean staggering that the numbers are so low. Daytime attack of this scale. It's reported that a lot of the drones came in from Belarus in a sort of 5 to 10 kilometer corridor along the border. It's thought that Russia was trying to mass drones in that area to overwhelm air defence so that follow on waves could get through. But as I say this is a breaking story just showing you the live air alert app so we'll keep an eye on that as we record and we will update later if we can and certainly tomorrow. Now Ukraine also was firing drones at Russia in the last 24 hours. They've hit the Krasnodar Krai region again overnight, striking all oil shipping infrastructure in the village of Volna. That's according to Russian telegram media channels reporting by the Kyiv independent here. So NASA's fire monitoring system, the firms system that we refer to quite a lot, shows a fire near the port at an oil storage facility which transfers oil and gas from Russian pipelines onto tankers that then head out through the Black Sea. Ukraine's unmanned systems forces put out a statement this morning saying they'd hit the Tamaftigas oil terminal and that as a result of that strike a series of Explosions were recorded, although results of the strike still being clarified. Now, all this comes just after President Zelenskyy said in his nightly address last night that Ukrainian drones had attacked a gas industry facility in Russia's Orenburg Oblast Yesterday. This is 1500 kilometers inside Russia. He didn't say whether the drones had hit the target. And I mentioned that because if you remember, yesterday we reported Russian independent outlet Astra saying that a drone had been brought down 4km short of the Strela production plant. That's a manufacturer of cruise missiles and components for fighter jets. But the Ukrainian telegram channel Supernova plus said that one of Russia's largest refineries in the southern Urals had been hit during the wider attack yesterday on the Orenburg oblast. And that might be the strike that President Zelensky is referring to. Now, sticking in Russia, there's a massive fire brain broke out last night at a tourist complex in Moscow, the Ismalova Kremlin complex in eastern Moscow. It's a cultural and entertainment complex that seeks to mimic the architectural style of the Kremlin. Hence it's got Kremlin in the title. So if you see things saying Kremlin's been hit, that's not correct. It's this sort of, I know, Disney type effort. Now, the cause of the fire is unclear. No comment from, from Kiev. That won't do anything to calm nerves in Russia, as I'm sure you'll agree, especially after that Ukrainian strike on May 4, that, that hit in Moscow just three kilomet from the Kremlin. Now there are also reports not corroborated, but I've seen it in a couple of places of an attack in Ufa. This is 1,000 kilometers northeast of Ukraine, inside Russia. The telegram channel Batash, citing workers at an oil plant there, says that one of the tanks was exploded or exploded after being hit at a production station near ufa. Now, according to them, the workers. This is two people were injured. As I say, there's no official confirmation of this or any other, any other news I've seen. They report this is the workers at the site report that the Ministry of Emergency Situations saying that the explosion occurred due to a violation of the technological process. Now, you know, might have been a drone, might have been a violation of the technological process.
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Francis Dernley
Might have been drone debris.
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David Knowles
You mean might have been drone debris. Yeah, I don't, I don't actually care to be perfectly honest, because, well, as you'll hear from this next story. So in Ukraine yesterday, six people were killed across the country or six People killed in Dnipro, Petrovsk, Oblask, I should say, after hundreds of Russian drones launched across the country overnight Monday, Tuesday, Thursday. The Guardian, citing the regional governor in Dnipropetrovsk, says that a drone attack on an apartment building in President Zelensky's hometown of Krivy? Re, which is in Dnipropatros Oblast, killed two people and injured four. The two people dead were, well, two grandparents and one of the injured was their nine month old granddaughter whose leg was severed. So yeah, I don't care if there's violation of the technological process that brings Russian oil and gas infrastructure down. Now some technical and tactical news if I may. First, a couple of things I want to talk about and show you if you're watching this. Ukraine's MOD released a bit of PR film yesterday for their new Trizub, I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. Trizub laser system. They say it can bring down drones, glide bombs crews and ballistic missiles of ranges up to 3km and helicopters and other aircraft at 5km. They're claiming this is a new era of air defence technology that is taking shape in Ukraine. Now such systems, these kind of laser systems have been in development and limited employment for some time now. The UK has got Dragonfire, the Israelis have their Iron Beam, generally these kind of things. So lasers are designed to basically burn through the skin of an incoming munition to either cause it to detonate or destroy the control surface such that the thing tumbles out of the sky or just burn through any of the optics on whatever the munition is that's heading towards them. So the point is that the laser beam has to be held on this thing for an amount of time, which, bearing in mind that the munition coming in might be spinning.
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Francis Dernley
So it's not like Star Wars.
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David Knowles
Not yet. Not exactly like Star wars just yet. But it has to be held on a place it can burn through the skin. As I say, although some weapons nowadays have special coatings, thermal coatings, so they can't. But that's the idea. Plus the laser, the laser beam is affected by atmospheric conditions like dust, water, smoke, all that kind of stuff. So my question is, if Ukraine is saying that this thing can take down ballistic missiles at 3 km, so is that, is 3 km the range at which the system can detect the thing coming in, or is that when it can start hitting it with the beam? Because 3 km away, the speed a ballistic missile goes, that doesn't leave you a lot of time. So I Don't quite know what they're saying here, you know, I mean an aircraft at that kind of distance, 5km in a helicopter. Yes, you've got time to do something, although are generally moving about. So I just wonder how much of this is PR blurb and how much of this is demonstrated operational capability. But you know, I will keep my eye on that and let you know when I find an answer. Now some more technology news footage also released today purporting to show a Ukrainian remote control ground drone UGV unmanned ground vehicle moving into a building where a group of Russian soldiers were said to have been hiding. It then detonated the massive bomb it was carrying, collapsing the building. So far. So new old world of combat then. Other footage issued today of a Ukrainian Mirage jet, French Mirage jet that's been gifted to Ukraine using the French guided ASM Hammer, hitting a Russian base whilst we're here. So AASM is Armament Airsol Modulare Modular Air Ground Armament, better known as Hammer, which somewhat clunkily is the highly agile modular Munition Extended range. They just wanted to call it Hammer so they got there. I have no idea what that is in French. If anywhere someone around here who speaks French, we could anyway.
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Francis Dernley
Yeah, if only, if only.
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David Knowles
Now the point I raise is both these things achieve the same effect. This Hammer missile from a Mirage and the, the ground drone both had a similar sized blast. We're not seeing much of either of these things yet, mainly because ground drones are just kind of coming online, but also because jets, the capability is well known, but they're much more expensive, they've got much more complicated lines of development because you need the training, you need the logistics, you need the infrastructure, all that kind of stuff. So what I wonder is greater risk to humans from the jets, no risk to the friendly forces with the ground drone. I wonder if literally the same bang, whether or not we're seeing a tipping point now whereby in certainly in contested airspace like this, where the ground drones are going to really come to the fore. That's the message that we've been hearing from a number of areas when we've been in Ukraine and elsewhere, people saying that the next big leap or the potential for great development is in the ground drone area. And I just thought that was an interesting juxtaposition today that sort of highlights what these things can do. I wonder if that's where we are at the moment. And then finally on tactics, footage from Ukraine's 24th Mechanized Brigade footage, we don't know when it was taken, but they, they say it's reported to be from the approaches to Chasiv Yar saying that there was a column of 20 Russians moving openly just outside Bakhmut. They say reconnaissance detected them and then artillery and drones took them apart. And I just say against all this news of new innovative technology coming online, we're still seeing really old tactics. I'm amazed that in year five of this thing, the Russians have not learned not to bunch 20 people together walking down a road. On the one hand we see great leaps from Russia as well, we have to say huge advances in technology, reacting to the other side, which does speak of an organization capable of learning. And then we see this 20 blokes walking down the road, then just get wiped out by drones and artillery, which speaks of an organization not able to learn. So I think it's the schizophrenia of the Russian military machine. But I thought that was rather telling. Against all the glitz and glamour of lasers and ground drones and all the rest of it. We still see bunches of blokes walking along and then running away when the drones come in and they all get wiped out.
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Francis Dernley
That's really interesting. And I know you've got some more updates done, but I just want to ask. It's been a while since we've talked about Bakhmut and I remember, of course, we were reporting on it all at the time. So called massive significance of Bakhmut. If it fell, it would leave an open door for Russia to move through and take other places. We argued, I remember at the time that in a sense Bakhmut had lost its strategic utility because it had basically been destroyed. I just wonder when you hear that name again at a very important time, probably the most, in some respects, one of the most important battles of the war. What do you think it means that we see it referenced again today?
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David Knowles
Yeah, interesting. So I'd say two things. Firstly, it does actually put into focus this phrase strategic. How many times have we heard of strategic towns, strategic villages, which is almost an oxymoron, you know, something to be strategic, it means it's going to affect the strategy that you have to employ if it's happened to you. Or it means that your strategy is winning. So, you know, it's very, very few things in a war are actually strategic. And this idea that Bakhmut was strategic at the time was always questioned. We questioned it. I mean, it was supposed to be a big rail crossroads and a major logistic route and it's like, okay, fine, but you know, there's a lot of logistic routes in Ukraine, a lot of rail crossings, they can't all be strategic. So we questioned at the time that if would its loss be strategic, that is that the war is going to be lost. And turns out, no, it wasn't. The other thing I'd say about it is if you remember Alexander Syrsky, who's now the head of Ukraine's armed forces, he was in charge of the land forces, I think. I can't remember the title, but he's basically in charge of the land forces. At the time, he was very heavily criticized for holding a Bakhmut for a long time. A lot of people said he sacrificed too many lives holding what many people came to view as an unnecessary bit of.
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Francis Dernley
Compared to Stalingrad, wasn't it?
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David Knowles
Yeah, yeah. I mean, there are all sorts of comparisons there. He was saying that at the time. He says that that effort bought. Allowed the rest of the line to firm up. It may well have bought time for other technology to come online. If we look where we are now, and obviously this is qu. Some time away when we, when we moved, end of 23, yeah. God, it's going to get my days all wrong. But I mean, we are significant, significant amount of time away now. But if you look at what's happening at the front line, Ukraine is able to have a less dense human front line because of the technology that they're able to employ ground drones, but more importantly aerial drones, first person view, the fiber optic control drones. So, you know, I've not heard him make this argument, but perhaps General Syrsky would say those kind of efforts. And it wasn't just Bakhmut. You know, a lot of people lost their lives in Bakhmut. But up and down the line, those efforts to hold the Russian effort, hold the Russian push combined, meant they were in the position they are now, that they've had time to develop these systems, time to dig the fortifications, which are much better in the east. It's a little bit ropey in the south, I'm told. But, you know, it all bought time and maybe Ukraine's in the position it's in now, where the most reasonable accurate assessment I've heard is that both sides are losing, but Ukraine is losing more slowly, seems to be reasonably accurate. And the line's going nowhere. There's no movement again in the last 24 hours. So maybe what happened in Bakhmut and elsewhere, the sacrifices that were made there, has bought Ukraine the time to be in the position they are now, albeit some year, 18 months later.
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Francis Dernley
And of course there's the other aspect of Bakhmut, which I don't think is talked about enough, which is that that was where Wagner was and it had played a massive role on them. Their anger. Krasimov, you know, it pent up the frustration that then triggered the mutiny. No bounty. And we obviously it didn't succeed, but it was an important moment of the war and would it have happened without Bakhmut? Almost certainly not. And the bloodbath of that battle. So yeah, as we always say, one for future historians to unpack the true significance of, I think. But Jo, I interrupted you. There's more updates. I know.
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David Knowles
Yeah, a couple more for me. United nations says a truck of their World Food Program was hit yesterday by an FPV drone while carrying out a humanitarian mission to deliver 800 food boxes to civilians in two locations near the front line in Dnipro region. They said the driver was injured. Richard Reagan, who's the World Food Program country director in Ukraine, said it is shocking and shameful that civilians and humanitarians must risk their own safety to deliver life saving assistance to frontline communities facing desperate conditions. These repeated attacks on humanitarian convoys and distribution sites threaten the people we support and risk cutting them off from the assistance they depend on. Now, in a statement, the UN says that in the last two years the World Food Program has recorded more than 80 attacks on its vehicles, warehouses, distribution points and the vehicles and assets of local humanitarian partners that they work with in Ukraine. Their statement says despite increased security risks, World Food Program continues to support nearly 600,000 people with critical food and cash assistance every month in Ukraine's frontline regions. In the last month, World Food Program has distributed food boxes to 157,000 people in frontline locations. And the last one for me, an interesting, interesting social media post by the Russian Igor Gherkin. We've spoken about him occasionally, but a quick backgrounder, Igor Girkin, a former FSB officer, Russia's domestic security service. In 2014, he played a key role in the fighting in the Donbass region where he organized and commanded pro Russia militias across eastern Ukraine. He's been sentenced in the Hague in absentia for controlling the separatist forces fighting in eastern Ukraine that shot down Malaysian Airlines flight MH17, killing all 298 people on board. He was a prominent pro war blogger and became increasingly critical of the way that Russia was fighting the war. That is saying they weren't going hard enough, they weren't doing enough damage. He increasingly and more openly criticized Putin, eventually arrested. He's been banged up. I Think he's got four years. He must be a year or so into that. But anyway, he's behind bars now. He still does comments and his comments are seen as a sort of bit of a cheerleader for the Milblog community that we know are critical of the way Moscow is fighting the war. So we understand that he is highly critical of the way Putin's doing this thing. But he's just posted a very interesting comment here. So he says, the enemy is on the rise. That's Ukraine. The enemy is on the rise. The enemy has completed preparations for his strategic program of sidelining our economy through massive drone and missile strikes. The enemy currently has air superiority and is putting up the most active resistance on the ground. The latest attacks on Crimea, which continue every day, show that the enemy is taking out our air defense systems and our military facilities. And we, despite everything, cannot prevent this stream of drones, unmanned aerial vehicles, boats and everything else. That is, we turned out to be unprepared for the current situation. In such a situation, the enemy will not make peace with us at all. His demands will increase, his negotiating positions will harden. Now, I mean, he does say these things and he's known to be critical of Putin, but I think that is going to add to the frustration in the Russian Milblog community around the very obvious success in recent months of Ukraine's long range bombing campaign. I mean, look at Tapsi and Perm and these other places that are going up in smoke and playing out all over social media. So I think it's really interesting that Igor Gherkins says that. I mean, I think we would go, yep, that's what we, that's what we're seeing and what we're reporting. But if that acts as a cheerleader to rev up the Millblock community that we know are pretty, pretty frustrated at the moment that that might be an interesting little flank that, that Putin needs to attend to.
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Francis Dernley
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it flips the, the narrative, doesn't it? We've been talking about how some people have argued that this war has flipped more in Ukraine's favor. Not necessarily definitively so, but I mean the fact that you're seeing that kind of language would speak to there being a shift in the dynamic. At the very least quite remarkable.
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David Knowles
Well, because he's not, I mean you can't, if you're a Russian ultra nationalist, you can't write him off and go, ah, he's turned to the Ukrainian side because he's not, he's, he is very hard line. So the fact he's just sort of listing some of these things as, as we report them and suggest that they are real, that they've happened, these strikes have happened. You know, the fact he's not really referring to them, he's just using them as points to build his argument. I mean, that is very interesting because a lot of people in Russia haven't heard that. A lot of people in Russia don't see that reality that Ukraine has managed to get through that kind of zone, that sort of 50 to 200 kilometer crust, if you like. They've nibbled away at the air defense there for the last 18 months and they finally have got through. So there's increasing attacks on logistics sites. Well, behind the front lines. We see Mariupol hit by Ukrainian drones now 160 km away from the line. Crimea repeatedly. These oil and gas facilities. I mean, this is because they've got through that hard shell and that's because these air defense systems are just not there anymore.
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Francis Dernley
Well, it's great to be able to flesh out some of the issues related to the military updates there, Dom. Thanks for that. Let's turn to the diplomatic realm there. Obviously, I've been away for the last few days. Adelai was in Brussels yesterday seeing Kai Kallis, of which you'll hear more tomorrow. Not interviewing, but was there for a Brussels summit. I was in Venice reporting on La Biennale. Now, somewhere there's a dream getaway there, but sadly not at the same time in the same place. But let's start not with Europe, but with the United States first of all, where President Trump said yesterday. Do you want to guess what he said, Dom?
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David Knowles
He probably said something was the best thing ever. The American economy was about to go gangbusters. He would have solved 18 wars last week, if you want to think more military, more military. So more military. He's about to win the war. He's about to bring peace.
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Francis Dernley
He's about to be getting warmer.
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David Knowles
Yeah, he's about to start a war. He's gonna start another one.
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Francis Dernley
No, not quite. He said the end of the war in Ukraine. It's getting very close. Oh yeah, so we've heard, we've heard this argument countless times. Of course, he's also saying the same thing about Iran as well now. So it's kind of hard to, to keep touch on, on all of the things that he's saying in relation to these two wars at the moment.
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David Knowles
My advice is don't bother listening.
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Francis Dernley
Well, that's just me. Well, yes, but unfortunately this sort of thing grabs the headlines and so we're compelled to to report on it. I mean, I think it's interesting that clearly despite all of the events of recent weeks, he still thinks that there's going to be some sort of u turn and shift. And obviously what you were reporting on the three day ceasefire and Trump's language around that speaks to that point. I mean, I should say that in relation to the US at the moment, pressure is building up still in Congress that was obviously we saw vented somewhat with the King's visit a couple of weeks ago. But there was a reference in the Senate hearing yesterday on the Pentagon's fiscal year. So this is the 2027 budget. US Senator Jean Shaheen pressed Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, of course, he's now dubbed himself Secretary of War Hegseth over delayed funding for Kiev and the Trump administration's loosening of sanctions on Russia. She is the ranking Democrat in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and she's demanded an explanation, as we've been talking about, as to what exactly has happened to the $400 million that were unlocked. It seems to have in some ways began to trickle through in certain avenues. But because of the language that the congressmen and women were compelled to use when they wrote the bill, they were asked to take Ukraine out because they thought that would mean that certain Republicans wouldn't be able to vote for it. They believe it's being used by some Republicans in the administration to say, oh, that money, even though it was intended for Ukraine, theoretically doesn't actually have to go to Ukraine because the wording says it doesn't have to go to Ukraine. So lots of political jiggery pokery going on here. But I reference it just to say that there is still this tension, almost say volcano. We had enough volcanoes recently, still present in the congressional sphere at the moment. And it's also interesting to note, I think, and this is something I think very relevant to what you were just talking about, Dom, to note that defence ties being forged between companies in the US and Ukraine despite the administration's reluctance do continue. So we've already reported on the Pentagon apparently working with Kyiv on drone defenses following the beginning of the war in Iran. Yesterday, President Zelenskyy met the CEO of Palantir Technologies. That's Alex Karp. Now, just as a reminder, Palantir develops data analytics, artificial intelligence software that's used by militaries and other organizations to coordinate battlefield operations. It's really about the integrating of battlefield data. And Kyiv's launched a project with them called Brave 1 Data Room to develop AI using combat data collected throughout the conflict. So over the entirety of the last four years to work on operations involved in intercepting drones, they say. But I imagine more else besides. Now, I know that in the documentary that we released this week that you did, looking at the Hur, you were witnessing Delta, that pioneering use of data, and I was going to ask just quickly in relation to that, because I've not seen it yet, too busy in Harry's bar, whether that technology was all ingrown in Ukraine or whether large parts of it may have been foreign developed as well. And this is a sort of integratory software, as it were.
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David Knowles
I mean, I don't know is the short answer. I'd be surprised if it was all homegrown from, from scratch, because it was. It's so capable. I mean, yeah, I use Palantir stuff before in the, in the military. I mean, it was, it was quite early days back, back then.
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Francis Dernley
It's a reference to Return of the King, isn't it? I think the Palantir is the special thing that Sauron uses to communicate. I could say you're glazed over. I'm probably going to get some Lord of the Rings hobbit buffs coming at me. But anyway, carry on.
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David Knowles
Yeah, I have no idea, I have no idea. But I mean, so the system, it makes sense of, it's the signal in the noise. So amongst a massive data, it's able to then pull out what may or may not be relevant to you as a human, if you ask intelligent question. So it presents options to your, presents things that may be of interest to you from a sea of, of ones and zeros. So what Delta was, was all that. And so I'd be surprised. It's quite complicated. So I guess I'm guessing that it's not homegrown. I saw Alex Carpier in Ukraine yesterday with President Zelensky and I thought that was quite, quite an interesting move. As we've said before, the amount of data that's being generated from any war, but there's now being able, you can capture it because this is a digital war. That data, those data, because data is plural, obviously have a value. And so, you know, if Ukraine were able to leverage that and sell it or, you know, provide access to companies such as Palantir or to other countries who would want to train systems on it. I mean, that has a. Has immense, immense value. Maybe that's what was happening yesterday. Or maybe they were going to sell, you know, Delta 2.0 from Palantir. I generally don't know if Palantir have anything to do with Delta, but I'd be surprised if it's. But completely homegrown from, you know, from. From Ukrainian software engineers.
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Francis Dernley
Well, interesting. Hold that thought because I'll come back to that moment in relation to Germany, but just staying on Europe's security architecture. Zelenskyy is in Bucharest, Romania today for the Bucharest 9 summit. Romania is a fascinating country. I'd love to do more on it at some point. This summit is sometimes known as NATO's eastern flank, so its members are Bulgaria, Czechia, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Slovakia. Though this year, tellingly, I think the Scandinavian countries are also taking part. Now, Zelenskyy posted this. Important meetings are planned on the sidelines of this summit. We will be shoring up additional resources for our defence and expanding the drone deals format. My wife will meet with the first lady of Romania, take part in the signing of memoranda on the accession of Romanian universities to the Global Coalition of Ukrainian Studies. We thank everybody who stands with Ukraine. Now, what's interesting here, I think, at the timing of this summit, is that many of those same countries are reportedly scrambling to bid for some of those American troops which are supposedly going to be pulled out of Germany, about 5,000 of them, as we were reporting a week or so ago. So apparently, according to Politico, Poland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and Romania have all expressed an interest in pinching basically some of those troops. The Romanian Deputy Defense Minister said this. I firmly believe a stronger U.S. presence on the eastern flank is necessary. Necessary, and we would welcome a permanent US presence on our territory. Romania has consistently demonstrated its commitment to the country's strategic partnership with the US and it's proven itself a reliable partner. Interesting developments there in the East, I think it's fair to say. Now, I mentioned Germany a moment ago, and Berlin's Defense Minister, Boris Pistorius, a man we've spoken about many times, has visited the frontline regions of Ukraine this week. He's one of the very few foreign ministers to do so, I have to say. And so credit to him for that. In a video that's been released by Kyiv's Defence Minister Fedorov, one can see him being shown Delta. And of course, I think this has a dual purpose. On the one hand, you're showing important dignitaries the reality of this modern war in all of its horror, but you're also saying, look at the technology we bring to bear here, look at the way that we're advanced. You need us to be part of Your security architecture. And that shift is what we, of course, by doing this as a daily podcast, have been able to see in real time with President Zelensky's visit to Westminster. Remember, what did he do? Showing off the data to parliamentarians, showing off the technology, working in real time. It's fascinating seeing how Ukraine is pivoting its position of course in the Middle east as well. And Iran putting itself as being a country you need to have on your side for the future of security. It's very, very clever politics and it does seem to be paying dividends in the way in which it's been able to sign all these defence contracts. Now, our Berlin correspondent of course, James Rothwell, he's just written a piece about two German soldiers that were attacked by masked individuals shouting anti NATO slogans outside of a military base in the Netherlands in recent days. Apparently they suffered minor injuries. This is on the border with Germany. Before the attackers fled, a Defence Ministry spokesman told James that the soldiers were subjected to verbal and physical assault and were in good health despite their injuries. Now we don't know anything more than that at this stage, but given the Russian hybrid warfare strategy that we've talked about now for the last couple of years or so that has involved the hiring of usually spies, but also people to act on sabotage in all forms of violence, I imagine that some will be speculating that there may well be some potential Russian involvement there. We have no evidence for that to be clear, but I've already seen some people pondering that and always interesting in relation to Germany in this issue. But one last story, Dom, in this section before we go to Adrian's report. And I know you've got some views on this as well. So this is a special CNN investigation into a Russian cargo ship that suffered mysterious explosions before eventually sinking off the southeast coast of Spain 17 months ago. Now I think we did report on this at the time, it was around Christmas Day 2023 and they are now reporting CNN, that they may have been carrying aboard that vessel nuclear submarine reactors destined for North Korea. So an interesting story. So this was the ERSA major, 142 meter long Russian flagged ship purportedly sailing from St. Petersburg to Vladivostok, which I think I'm right in saying is Russia's only ice free port in the Far east. When it sank 62 nautical miles off the coast of Murcia a little before midnight on 23rd December 2024. Spanish attempts to assist the vessel were curtailed when a Russian warship arrived, took over the Operations and ordered the two boats to withdraw. CNN claim four seismic signatures, the pattern of which resembled underwater mines or overground quarry blasts, pretty big, were heard that night. Two crew members are thought to have died in the initial explosions, while 14 were rescued. Now investigators have also noticed two huge blue containers, each estimated to weigh about 65 tons, on the stern of the ship in satellite photos. These would therefore be loads almost impossible to transport along the winding roads of Russia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Afghanistan between the two cities served by the ersa. Major said a report that mysterious undeclared cargo would certainly justify a voyage of more than 15,000 km by sea between St. Petersburg and Vladivostok, if indeed it was these reactors.
- [33:17]
David Knowles
And it's also pretty hard to get a ship into Afghanistan.
- [33:20]
Francis Dernley
Well, just noting, just important caveat. Yeah, indeed. Now they found apparently a 50 centimeter by 50 centimeter hole in the vessel's hull and they're saying, CNN, that this could only have been made by a super fast weapon known as a super captivating. Not super captivating. That's what I've been described on a night out before. No, that's a super cavitating, a super cavitating torpedo. Apologies. Only the us, a few NATO allies, Russia and Iran are believed to have that kind of torpedo. So obviously lots of speculation of some NATO involvement in that operation, if true. So John, what was your reaction to that big investigation and hat tip to cnn?
- [34:01]
David Knowles
Yeah, I mean it was, I saw the investigation done by my mate Nick, who's a good chap. So there's a lot of moving parts to it as you've, as you've just described. And it is quite, quite outlandish as in we just don't normally hear these kind of things, underwater explosions and nuclear reactors and all the rest of it. But you know, I, I know Nick, I trust Nick, I trust his reporting. So yeah, fair play. Hat tip to cnn. I think it's a good, a good report. I mean it does seem extraordinary. We know that obviously North Korea sent We think 12,000 ISH soldiers to help Putin, of which about 6,000 haven't returned or have returned on crutches. So yeah, we were kind of wondering what's going back the other way. Maybe two nuclear reactors for a nuclear submarine, which Kim Jong Un was it last December, made great hay of saying, here we go, we're building one of these things. There was some sort of model behind him. It didn't, didn't seem very, didn't seem very complete anyway. So, yeah, maybe, I mean the CNN report isn't saying this definitely happened, that definitely happened. They're just, they're just putting evidence in front of the, in front of the public, well sourced with some sensible analysis. So, yeah, I think it's a good report by Nick. Nick's actually one of the very few people who made it into Kursk. Remember with when in August 24, when Ukraine invaded Russia in the area of Kursk. So Nick got in there, as did my pal Jerome Starkey at the Sun. They managed to get in. So not only have they been sanctioned like us on the Russian Foreign Ministry list, they've also Russia's tried to take some international legal action against them, which again, you kind of think, well, I'm never going to go to Russia. How important is that? But in years to come, I mean, Russian ties with. I know, invent a country that I don't want to, I don't want to malign now. But, you know, if you flew over that country or went on holiday in that country, would there be some outstanding warrant? Anyway, I point to the fact that Nick is a good seasoned journalist. He knows what he's doing and if he's put together this report with as a sensible analysis, then it's well worth a watch.
- [35:58]
Francis Dernley
I seem to recall somebody who was arrested on some kind of charges. Was it over Belarus? This is maybe about three or four years ago now. I need to look it up. But that exact scenario where they had some very dubious claim against it was either by Russia or by Minsk and, and they. A plane was actually landed because they claimed there was a criminal abroad that they wanted to arrest. So, yeah, it's a serious thing. But speaking of extraordinary reports, let's go to her Zon. Now this is from a few weeks ago and we've just released because obviously it was. Requires a lot of editing work here at the Telegraph, a report that Adrian Blomfield has done, of course, senior foreign correspondent. He's often on the pod here. He spent 72 hours in Kherson, well known of course for the human safari, a horrific term of Russia using drones to target basically anything that moves. Partially to practice, it seems, but also to intimidate the civilian population. He was out there and you can actually see him experiencing what one of these raids from drones is like. So let's play you an extended clip from that. Now
- [37:06]
Adrian Blomfield
we have another drone signal coming
- [37:08]
David Knowles
in,
- [37:15]
Adrian Blomfield
So we're having to move out fairly quickly because obviously the threat spectrum has just changed. That is the view from the Russian drone that is circling somewhere in the sky above our heads. And it's up to these guys possibly to shoot it down. We've just arrived in Kherson. It's very much on the front line. The Russians are just on the other side of the Dnieper River. They've been there since the city was liberated on Armistice Day 2022. Approaching the city, you have to drive under 20km of drone netting because this city has become synonymous with the infamous Russian drone safari where drones have been picking off cars and people almost for sport to practice their tanks.
- [38:13]
David Knowles
Ticks.
- [38:18]
Adrian Blomfield
Here the rules are different. Traffic lights coming into the city don't mean stop or go. Green means there are no drones spotted ahead. Red means there are drones. Don't go any further. And you can't wear seat belts here because you may need to make a quick escape. As Russia attacks, Ukraine adapts. Take this detector which has become a lifeline.
- [38:45]
David Knowles
It's a drone detector which can catch the signal of the Russian drones and intercept also the video picture that Russian drone operators see in their goggles. So you can see the three antennas here, which means it cover three types of different frequencies. This thing can intercept the signal. Only FPV drones, not the drones with the digital communication or drones with the optic fiber.
- [39:18]
Adrian Blomfield
If you see yourself in here, if you see your car in here, for example, then you kind of know you're in trouble. Is that the case?
- [39:26]
David Knowles
Yeah, it's a worst scenarios.
- [39:28]
Adrian Blomfield
And that's what's happened to these soldiers who captured the exact moment they squarely entered the Russian crosshairs. The detector is also used by this anti drone unit which is part of the 34th Marine Brigade. We are with Yeheni, who's going to lead us in an attempt to intercept or shoot down some of these drones. We can't move quite yet because radio intelligence says there's a Russian reconnaissance drone above us trying to identify target. Okay, we're moving across, so we're having to move out fairly quickly because obviously the threat spectrum has just changed. Are you recording? Are you recording?
- [40:31]
David Knowles
Yeah.
- [40:31]
Adrian Blomfield
So we've just been told to move here, I think. Let's keep up chats. Actually, on our drone detector we've just picked up a signal, started beeping to the llama to tell us that there is a drain around. This is showing us exactly what the drone is seeing. You see we're losing signal, but that is the view from the Russian drone that is circling somewhere in the sky above our heads. And it's up to these guys possibly to shoot it down. So the reality of the situation is that we're with a unit that has just gone on alert to try and take out a drone. And at the same time, ordinary life is continuing around us. We've got people coming by with shopping bags, returning from getting their essentials, picking up humanitarian aid deliveries. So in the middle of a battlefield, you have civilians going about their daily lives. This drone was intercepted. We could see it in the drone view. It was probably just a little bit above this park where we were. And it was intercepted by electronically. It was electronically jammed. So we're now standing down, awaiting the next alert
- [42:10]
Francis Dernley
and happy to report that Adrian is now safely back here in London. We'll add a link to the full video in the show notes. An amazing piece of work, but let's go to our final thoughts. Now then, Dom, where do you want to leave listeners today?
- [42:24]
David Knowles
Well, I've been checking throughout the hour or so we've been on. On air. There's been no change to the air alert in Ukraine. That is still the live, Live picture. The live air alert from Ukraine showing extensive areas from. In the west of the country, basically from Kyiv Oblast west, still showing an air alert. So this daytime attack by Russia is. Is continuing. And I will. I'll track that one through the day, but I've also been trying to find out if there's any. Any casualties from it. There's no update on the casualties, so we think three dead, five injured, which is a strikingly low number, not to be welcomed, of course, but. But very, very low. Oh, literally just then, one of the oblasts, which is the oblast just northwest of Kyiv, above Zhytimir, that's just. Oh, and Jitemir Oblast is now going black, as in the air alert is being cancelled. So a couple of areas there that are now said to be free of an air threat. Yeah, Jitimir Oblast is now clear. It's literally happening as I'm watching.
- [43:18]
Francis Dernley
Right.
- [43:19]
David Knowles
But we'll have an update tomorrow.
- [43:21]
Francis Dernley
Yeah, thanks, Tom. Well, a bit of a strange one, perhaps, in which to end, but it was a thought that occurred to me as I was flying over Venice last night. And for anyone who's been to the city, you can walk across it in about an hour. It's one of my favorite cities in the world. And you'll see some of the reporting that I was doing there relating, say, to the controversy of the Biennale. A lot of very, very angry people in the city because of the Russian pavilion being allowed to open this year, which was the focus of the reporting. But as I was looking out of the aircraft window, could see how small this. This little world that you come to know for the days that you're there was. And all of the people, all of the places, all of that history, it's just a small smudge on the glass. And we flew right over. And I thought to myself, because I've been reading obviously a lot over the last few years, really, on aerial campaigns, Bomber command, particularly in the Second World War, and Venice was spared in the Second World War. It was a British marshal, I believe. Pussy, his name was. I don't know why I remember that. But anyway, who spared the city of Venice. So the fact the city exists at all has him to thank in many respects. But anyway, being so high above and being able to, in a sense, not see any human beings, not see any really any sign of life beyond the lights, it just made you think, like, is this how it was possible for people to carry out some of the devastating raids that we've seen obviously in past wars, but also in this war when, as it were, just so easy from on high to drop bombs, drum munitions, fire munitions, and think, well, because you never see the human consequences of that. You never see the human cost. You never see the destruction from. From high up that in some way you yourself are distant from it in a moral sense. And I don't know, it just was a strange, sobering and rather melancholy thought as I was flying away. Maybe I was just sad to be. To be leaving the city, but it really. It really stuck with me as we were flying at that height, thinking about how many cities are no more, in essence, as a consequence of that distance afforded by modern technology.
- [45:30]
David Knowles
And that's why we do this, because we have to mark each one of these moral outrages. A couple of days ago, somebody took the decision or pressed a button yesterday which resulted in a drone strike in Crevirie from which a child, if they survive this war, is now going to grow up without a leg and without a set of grandparents. That was. That was someone's choice. Someone needs to be held morally and legally responsible for that.
- [45:58]
Francis Dernley
And the worst thing is they may not even be aware that that happened.
- [46:01]
David Knowles
Yeah, well, they. There's enough evidence now, they should know that something happens when they press the button.
- [46:06]
Francis Dernley
Yeah, well, that's all we've got time for, everybody. We'll be back, same time, same place, tomorrow. Until then, all the very best from us here in London. Goodbye for now.
- [46:14]
David Knowles
Thanks, everyone.
- [46:18]
Francis Dernley
Ukraine. The latest is an original podcast from the Telegraph, created by David Knowles. Every episode featuring us in the studio, maps and Battlefield footage is now available to watch on our YouTube channel. You can subscribe at www.YouTube.com ukrainethelatest. There's a link in the description. If you appreciate our work, please consider following Ukraine the Latest on your preferred podcast app and leave us a review as it helps others find the show. Please also share it with those who may not be aware we exist. You can also get in touch directly to ask questions or give comments by emailing ukrainepodelegraph.co.uk we continue to read every message even if we can't reply to all of them. You can also contact us on X. You'll find our handles in the description. As ever, we're especially interested to hear where you're listening from around the world. And finally, to support our work and stay on top of all of our Ukraine news, analysis and dispatches from the ground, please subscribe to the Telegraph. You can get one month for free, then two months for just one pound at www.telegraph.co.uk Ukraine the latest Ukraine the Latest was Today, produced by Alexis in Audio and Sophie o' Sullivan in Video. The Executive Editor is me, Francis Dernley. The series creator is David Knowles.
- [47:43]
David Knowles
My name is David Knowles. Thank you all for listening. Goodbye.
- [47:49]
Adrian Blomfield
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Francis Dernley
I thought it was safe.
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Adrian Blomfield
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David Knowles
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David Knowles
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