← Ukraine: The Latest
Ukraine: The Latest
Exclusive: Russian commanders charging up to $30,000 to spare soldiers from the frontlines in Ukraine & ‘You’re not evil’: Trump unveils Board of Peace
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- [00:04]
Francis Durnley
The telegraph.
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Dominic Nicholls
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That's why you Rack
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Rosina Sabor
I'm Francis Durnley and this is Ukraine. The latest today amid reports Russian forces loss of Starlink is reducing the intensity of drone attacks along the front line. We examine claims that Russian commanders are charging soldiers up to £30,000 to avoid deployment in the most dangerous sectors. We then bring you the latest from the first meeting of Donald Trump's so called Board of Peace. And finally hear the view from Belarus as Putin seeks to place more nuclear warheads there.
- [02:54]
Dominic Nicholls
Bravery takes you through the most unimaginable hardships to finally reward you with victory.
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Rosina Sabor
Russia does not want feast.
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Dominic Nicholls
If I'm president, I will have that
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Francis Durnley
war settled in one day.
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Dominic Nicholls
24 hours. We are with you. Not just today or tomorrow, but for 100 years.
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Rosina Sabor
Nobody's going to break us.
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Francis Durnley
We are strong. We are Ukrainians.
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Rosina Sabor
It's Friday the 20th of February, three years and 362 days since the full scale invasion began. And today I'm joined by our associate editor of Defence, Dominic Nicholls. And later you'll hear our National Security editor Rosina Sabor's final interview from the Munich security Conference with the exiled Belarusian leader Svetlana Sikhanouskaya. But first, over to Dom for the latest in the military realm.
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Dominic Nicholls
Well, thanks Francis. Before we go to the military realm, a word of thanks, if I may, to everyone who heard our announcement that from next week the podcast will be available on video on YouTube where you'll be able to see our faces. Lucky you. Our guests, our maps and battlefield footage. Many of you already started subscribing to our new YouTube channel, although in some countries the hyperlink in yesterday's episode proved troublesome. So here it is manually www.YouTube.com forward/at Ukraine the latest. We'll also relink to it in today's episode. Notes to be clear, the video pod doesn't start until next week, but the link is live to subscribe and to see content that we've already exported over to that site. To reiterate, if you currently listen to us on YouTube via the Telegr main channel, you will not automatically receive the new video episode. So please do subscribe to Crane the latest on YouTube. Okay, now for the military updates. Not a huge amount of movement on the ground continuing the pattern of recent weeks. In Kupiansk in the northeast of the country, there are said to be final mopping up operations of Russian forces in the center of the city. Russia is trying to push against the edges. Basically from the north of the city through the east to the southeast. There are attempts by Russia to get into the city. They are unsuccessful at the moment and there are small numbers of Russians in the center that Ukrainian forces are eliminating now. An Institute for the Study of War report says that a Ukrainian officer operating in the Kupyansk area said yesterday that the Starlink switch off has decreased the number of Russian drone attacks and that warmer weather at last has flooded Russian positions, melting snow and made the Oskil river impassable. Ukrainian Joint Forces Task Force spokesperson Colonel Viktor Trebov he said yesterday that Russian forces had about 30 to 40 people remaining in Kupyansk as of Wednesday this week. Colonel Trebov said the remaining Russian troops are unable to conduct effective offensive operations and lack the combat power to defend their positions elsewhere. Go down into the Donbass in the city of Lyman, that is still under pressure. We've been reporting that for weeks now. Colonel Drebovgen, he said that Russia has been unable to break into the city there. They have taken to, well, hitting the surrounding villages either to cut off, well, they think they're trying to cut off depth reinforcements or routes into the city by Ukrainian forces or just because they can't get in. But it is still very violent around the Lyman area. But the city is not yet held by Russia, so not a huge amount of movement on the ground. But Ukraine's General Staff said that several targets, including a command post, a Russian logistic base, a repair facility and a concentration of Russian troops were hit in in occupied parts of Zaporizhzhia Oblast yesterday. Also in occupied parts of Kherson Oblast. Ukrainian forces say they hit a command, an observation post and a troop concentration area in Lyubymivka and also on the island of Tendra. That last one, that's the spit of land in the Black Sea that extends out from Crimea and it sort of is about 60k southeast of Odessa. There are also sites in Russian occupied Crimea that were hit yesterday, according to the General Staff. Now, Russian forces attack Ukraine overnight using an Iskand M ballistic missile that was fired from Russia's Rostov Oblast, as well as 128 Shahed Gerbera Itelmas and other drones. Ukrainian air defence destroyed or jammed 107 of the drones. They were launched from the Russian cities of Bryansk, Kursk, Oryol, Shatylovo and Primorsko Aktarsk, as well as from the temporarily occupied parts of Donetsk Oblast. About 80 of those drones were a shahed loitering munitions. Russian MOD, for what it's worth, say that they destroyed 149 Ukrainian drones over the country last night, but they didn't give any further details. They didn't say where or when. Now then, a story today in the Telegraph. Russian commanders are charging up to £30,000 to spare soldiers from the front lines in Ukraine, a number of military experts have been saying. Telegraph colleagues here have uncovered multiple cases in which soldiers are offered the chance to pay extortionate sums in exchange for their safety. A practice experts say is systemic throughout the Russian forces. Video footage recorded by a Russian soldier shows his junior sergeant revealing a corrupt network within the military involving widespread extortion and the illicit trafficking of weapons. This individual, Denis Koliznikov, claimed commanders would reset soldiers. That's a euphemism for sending them to their deaths, reset them if they refused to pay sums demanded of them, which could range up to 30,000 pounds. Mr. Kalisnikov said, More than half of our unit were reset by the commanders. Everyone has to pay the commanders. If someone doesn't pay, they're considered unnecessary, sent to the front and reset. I personally saw several people killed. Now the video footage has been verified by the Ukrainian Security and Cooperation Center. That's a Kyiv based independent, non governmental think tank or analytical center. Alistia Horinova, who's the deputy head of the USCC speaking to the Telegraph, said such abuses are indeed widespread and systemic, systematic in the Russian army, mainly among frontline units. Russian military personnel are willing to pay money to avoid going to the front, indicating a serious problem with the motivation of the Russian army against the backdrop of the bloody tactics of the Russian command. Now soldiers are also said to be coerced into surrendering part of their pay for supposed unit support, with commanders frequently pocketing the funds. The USCC noted widespread cases of commanders stealing equipment and then forcing soldiers to purchase these items at their own expense. Now those reports have been supported by separate and independent reporting by the isw. The Institute for the Study of War. Katerina Stepanenko, who's a Russian research fellow at the isw, said that they have observed several instances of Russian military commanders committing Russian service personnel to suicidal assaults in Ukraine if they refused to provide a bribe or if they attempted to complain about the corruption in their units. She said these instances suggest that corruption and hazing will likely only continue to intensify, especially as the Kremlin continues to deprioritize efforts to professionalize the Russian military in order to maintain Russia's war effort in Ukraine. We will put a link in the episode notes now. So just on individuals fighting for Russia, there's a story in the BBC that says a total of a thousand Kenyans have been recruited to fight for Russia. According to Kenyan to a Kenyan intelligence report that details a network of rogue officials allegedly colluding with human trafficking syndicates. So the report that was submitted to the Kenyan Parliament on Wednesday of this week by the country's National Intelligence Service said that 89 Kenyans were on the front lines in Ukraine and as of February this year, and they say at least one Kenyan has died while several Others have returned home injured or traumatized. Now, the Kenyan government, which previously estimated that only about 200 of its nationals had been recruited to fight for Russia, wants Moscow to bar the conscription of Kenyan soldiers. The National Intelligence Service detailed how recruitment agencies have allegedly been colluding with rogue Kenyan airport staff, immigration officers, officers at the Director of Criminal Investigations, as well as anti narcotics officers and National Employment Authority officers to facilitate the travel of these recruits. Parliamentary Majority Leader Kamani Echungwa alleged that the agencies had also been colluding with staff at the Russian Embassy in Nairobi and the Kenyan Embassy in Moscow to help recruits get Russian visas. As you would imagine, the Russian Embassy in Nairobi has denied all of this. They said in the statement, at no point in time you're like this, Francis. At no point in time. Throughout the ongoing crisis in Ukraine has the embassy ever issued visas to Kenyan citizens who sought to travel to Russia with the stated purpose of participating in the special military operation in Ukraine. Nor has the embassy been encouraging any Kenyan citizen to do so. We'll put a link to the BBC story in the episode notes as well. I mean, they could have just flat out denied it and we'd all have no, they're fibbing, but you know, we haven't issued any visas to people who sought to travel with the stated purpose of participating. Okay, fine, whatever. Now then, a couple more for me. Ministry of Foreign affairs in South Korea has confirmed that it is in continued discussions, they say, with NATO on various ways to support Ukraine. This was in response to reports suggesting South Korea is considering joining the Pearl Initiative. Member Pearl prioritized Ukraine requirements list a pot of money with which to go to the US to buy buy US weapons. So the United States no longer supports Ukraine by pledging weapons, gifting weapons, but they do allow people to buy their stuff, which is jolly nice of them. Now an official from the South Korean Ministry of Foreign affairs confirmed that NATO had approached South Korea with a request to join Pearl. However, they highlighted that Seoul's focus in assisting Ukraine remains on humanitarian aid and other non lethal military equipment. They didn't specifically say if they're leaning towards joining Pearl, but that was clearly the direction of travel and that was the, the context for the conversation. And then just finally an announcement, a press release popped up in my inbox this morning that says that UK and European allies are going to develop low cost air defence weapons to protect NATO skies. So there's an E5 meeting today, the European Group of Five meeting, that's in Krakow. So it's Britain, France, Germany, Italy, And Poland, they've launched the. Try and work this round. See if you can work this right. The Low Cost Effectors and Autonomous Platforms Initiative.
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Rosina Sabor
You said that very quickly, Dom.
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Dominic Nicholls
Low Cost Effectors and Autonomous Platforms initiative.
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Rosina Sabor
So it's lc, what could this be as an algorithm? Go and tell me. Put me out my misery.
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Dominic Nicholls
Leap, leap, leap.
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Rosina Sabor
How they, how do they do that with this, when the C is the second letter?
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Dominic Nicholls
I don't know, you know, anyway, I think, I just don't think they're taking
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Rosina Sabor
a leap of faith that anyone.
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Dominic Nicholls
Well again, say it's not particularly helpful, is it? Because it just leads to headlines like that, let alone, you know, the seas. So MOD here says that LEAP is going to see the development of advanced low cost.
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Rosina Sabor
Take that seriously. Sorry, carry on, leap.
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Dominic Nicholls
Yeah. Okay, well, so leap's going to see the development of advanced low cost air defense systems such as autonomous drones or missiles. And they say the first project out of LEAP is going to be delivered by 2027. So to me, by 2027 means December 31, 2026, which isn't that far away. So question, when in 2027 are you going to see the first things out of leap? But a more pressing concern, when I read this, you know, would you want to buy? I mean it might be brilliant. I don't, Yeah, I don't mean to disparage this, but someone tries to sell me an advanced low cost air defense system, I counter by saying, yeah, yeah, well, I've got some half price shark cages you could buy if you're interested. So I, we will see what these advanced low cost air defense systems are and quite how good they are. I'm thinking sort of some sort of sling with a, you know, bow and arrow or elastic type catapult. Anyway, that's the military updates, Francis.
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Rosina Sabor
Well, thanks very much, Dom. Have you ever been in with sharks? I can imagine that being the sort of thing that you do on holiday.
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Dominic Nicholls
Well, I suppose dogfish is technically a shark, isn't it?
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Rosina Sabor
Yeah. I think most people would say if you're going in with sharks, you have to. It's great white or nothing, isn't it?
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Dominic Nicholls
Right, well in that case, no, no, I've not been swimming with a great white.
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Rosina Sabor
Neither have I, by the way. That's not something that I tend to get up to at the weekends. Let's go over to Washington, shall we? And the inaugural meeting of President Trump's Board of Peace. Another one of a title that I think is somewhat unfortunate because it does make it sound like he's bored of peace, which I think he is. Some two dozen member countries have signed up to this new venture. Of course, originally it was all around the Israel, Gaza conflict and trying to ostensibly solve that. But it's now seemingly been expanded as a great instrument of global peacemaking efforts, according to Trump. Others, others would say that it's more really of a. Of a rogues gallery of people who are willing to work with Trump on business deals. There are very, very few democratic countries on it. Italy, Greece, South Korea and the EU will attend as observers. But really the only leader from Europe to attend was. Do you want to guess?
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Dominic Nicholls
Viktor Orban.
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Rosina Sabor
Yes. Well done. Yeah. Viktor Orban of Hungary. Was there? More on Hungary in a moment. So Trump claimed the group had offered $6.5 billion in financial pledges so far. And Trump gave a 47 minute monologue lavishing praise on the group of world leaders in the room, saying, was there
- [16:42]
Dominic Nicholls
enough oxygen in the room?
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Rosina Sabor
He said they weren't evil, which is always a good way to start a good speech. And insisting his effort will work with and not against the U.N. although he did have a few disparaging remarks about the UN in the speech. He also claimed that Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, the uae, Morocco, Bahrain, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan and Kuwait had committed 7 billion more on top for Gaza relief. Now, just to give you a flavor dom of the proceedings, Trump said it was the most prestigious board ever put together. He said he wanted to thank every nation that helped us achieve this monumental breakthrough which will save countless lives. We have peace in the Middle East. The war in Gaza is over. Rather tellingly, though, the president of the world football governing body, FIFA, was there. Do you want to guess why?
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Dominic Nicholls
Because he's. Because the gold paint has come off the thing he gave Trump a couple of weeks ago.
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Rosina Sabor
Yeah. He said, I want to thank FIFA. They gave me their first peace prize. They saw that I got screwed by Norway and they said, let's give him a peace prize. So that's enough to get and a
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Dominic Nicholls
Congressional Medal of Honor.
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Rosina Sabor
Yeah. And that's enough to get you an invitation to the new Board of peace. Some other select quotes from Trump. His Majesty the King of Bahrain. He's so rich, he can sit there. He can sit wherever the hell he wants. He might take a piece of this building. Marco referencing Marco Rubio take 25% of the building for about $6 billion. The building was built for peace. Nobody knew what to name it. And then Marco named it after me. I had nothing to do with it, I swear. They said there's a Surprise coming. I thought they were going to give me a lot of money or something, maybe cash. I can always have some extra cash. I've had a good relationship with the un other than my last speech where they didn't turn on my teleprompter. I got up there, my teleprompter didn't work. First I had an escalator that stopped. I was lucky. My movie star first lady was in front of me because I put my hand on a certain part of her body and I was able to stop my fall.
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Dominic Nicholls
A movie star. I remind you, the greatest review I saw of Melania was that if they showed it on airplanes, there would still be walkouts.
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Rosina Sabor
Very good on Steve Witkoff. He had this to say. Everybody likes him, Ukraine loves him, Russia loves him, Europe loves him. Now, I think it's fair to say that probably none of those love him particularly well.
- [19:00]
Dominic Nicholls
The satirists don't love him because he's putting them out of a job.
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Rosina Sabor
That's very true. Wyckov had this to say. Mr. President, it is my greatest honour to work for you. It's the blessing of my life. I've had many blessings, but this is my greatest blessing, to be honest, I could go on, there's so many more quotes here I've got in front of me, but I think, to be honest, you get the picture. Rather amusingly, representatives from Belarus government, sometimes called Europe's last dictatorship, were unable to obtain visas to travel to the US for the inaugural meeting, despite having received the official invitation to attend. So they had this to say, visas for our delegation to the Peace Council meeting were not issued despite all the documents being submitted on time and the procedures followed. This came from the Foreign Ministry of Belarus, so they weren't too chuffed about that and have been saying basically that why is it called the Board of Peace if you then don't invite people on who you supposedly said that you want to be members of it?
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Dominic Nicholls
The Department of Homeland Security just saw Bell and thought it was Belgium or something.
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Rosina Sabor
Who knows? But regardless, it's got them all in a tears. The meeting finally adjourned after three hours as Trump ended by stating, these are the richest people in the world through their countries. He then banged a golden gavel as YMCA started playing. Now, in different times, this would be one of the most extraordinary summits. Well, probably in living memory, but the fact is it's just gone more or less. It's been in the news cycle. Few people have talked about it today and I think it's already tomorrow's. Chip paper. Quite an extraordinary state of affairs really. But there have been some donations apparently given, particularly in relation to Gaza. We'll see if they actually come to pass. But anyway, I thought you'd enjoy a little bit of an overview of some of the shenanigans that took place.
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Dominic Nicholls
So hang on a sec. So he is the governor or whatever you call it, of Border Peace under their terms and conditions, the board. So he gets to decide where the money goes?
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Rosina Sabor
In theory, yes.
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Dominic Nicholls
Well, he's in practice, isn't it? I mean, what's to stop him just deciding?
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Rosina Sabor
I think it's been thought through. I don't think there is actually a proper protocol.
- [21:03]
Dominic Nicholls
Where's the money going? Show. Show us the money, Follow the money. As Deep Throat said.
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Rosina Sabor
I think the other one, Francis, the other God, I've never seen that film. I saw other last weekend and that was pretty close. Anyway, the other thing to ponder in relation to the Board of Peace is the fact that Trump says he wants to be its perennial president. So you can imagine in a situation in a few years time where you've got other US Presidents trying to do things and this Board of Peace supposedly is also having its own initiatives at the same time, not necessarily going to be a welcome contribution to dialogue. One can imagine, particularly if the Democrats were to assume power. But even if it was another Republican president, I can imagine this being a real thorn in their side, potentially. So anyway, interesting bit of news that. Let's go on then to other news. Out of the U.S. trump has rubber stamped a year extension of the national emergency and related sanctions first introduced following Russia's occupation of Crimea. The decree was first introduced that year, expanded in 2018 and 2022, including Asset Freez and restrictions targeting individuals linked to Russia's occupation. The document states that Russia's actions continue to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to national security and the foreign policy of the United States. Now, as I say, I don't think Trump necessarily is aware of the fact that this has been rubber stamped in his name, but nonetheless something that is quite welcome, particularly when you consider it in relation to the next piece of news, which is Politico understands that the US Is pressing allies not to invite Ukraine to formal meetings at the next NATO summit in Ankara on July 7th 8th. This has happened before, of course, but nonetheless I think it's worthy of note that they're still trying to do that. And the real question is to why is this something that's been demanded by the Russians as part of the ongoing peace talks or so called peace talks, or is this them offering an olive branch, or is this a genuine attempt to really harm Ukraine and Europe's interests? We don't know, but we can speculate, I think. But regardless, one that I think is worth us commenting on. A couple more I mentioned Orban. The row between Ukraine, Hungary and Slovakia over energy continues with the latter two countries saying they're now halting diesel exports to Ukraine, citing the suspension of Russian oil transit by the Druzhba pipeline as the trigger for that move. So no sign of this issue going away. And I think as I mentioned a couple of days ago, this is something that's quite helpful for Budapest at the moment and Viktor Orban's government because it basically means that they can keep saying that, you know, we're being strong on the Ukrainians, we're being critical of the Ukrainians, it's not their war and they're using this as a key aspect of their electoral campaign. So I expect this to rumble on. Lastly, Moldovan police said yesterday they've launched a joint investigation with Ukrainian authorities into an alleged plot to assassinate several public figures in Ukraine. Claiming the operation was directed by Russian special services adds to a series of investigations across Europe into alleged Russian linked operations. We've spoken about many of them, the agency said. We will return with further details after the completion of procedural actions. I think it's just worth underscoring here that this would make sense, it being something that's being initiated from Moldova because as we've talked about many times, Russia, rather than using its own field agents, is recruiting from third party countries and is then using them partly for plausible deniability, partly because it's just cheaper to do it that way. And these individuals are usually more. What's the word to use?
- [24:32]
Dominic Nicholls
Expendable.
- [24:33]
Rosina Sabor
Expendable. Thank you, Dom. Expendable. And so yes, an interesting story and one we'll continue to monitor, but that's us up to date in the political realm.
- [24:44]
Dominic Nicholls
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Rosina Sabor
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Rosina Sabor
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Dominic Nicholls
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Rosina Sabor
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Francis Durnley
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- [26:19]
Rosina Sabor
In the week where we heard more fears about Russian transfers of atomic warheads to Belarus, the Telegraph's national security editor Rosina Sabor spoke to exiled Belarusian leader Svetlana Sikhanouskaya at the Munich Security Conference. Interviewed her before. But this is a deeper dive on many of the subjects relevant to the country. Four years on into the full scale invasion, this is their conversation.
- [26:42]
Francis Durnley
So thank you for doing this interview. It's very nice to meet you. I wonder if you can start by just reflecting a little on what your life is like.
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Rosina Sabor
It's been over five years since you
- [26:57]
Francis Durnley
were forced to leave Belarus. What is it like living in exile? Can you give us a flavor of
- [27:03]
Rosina Sabor
what your day to day looks like?
- [27:06]
Francis Durnley
So actually my life is very dynamic all these five years. You know, the one thing is to live in exile, you know, trying to settle your life, you know, to take care of your children. But the other thing is that you constantly have to be very active on promoting your course. You have to be very active on building structures, alternative institutions of power in exile. You have to be reactive on keeping attention on Belarus and building relationship with the democratic world. You know, promoting why Belarus strategically important. So fighting for attention. Honestly speaking simultaneously we have to stay in contact with the people on the ground with our military test in Ukraine. So really over busy with the different issues. Five years I was without my husband. It's like additional challenge because more than two years he was in communicado. I didn't know if he is alive. So half a year ago he was released and relocated. You know, now personally of course it's easier for me knowing that, you know, he's, he can hug our children. But still thousands of people behind bars. And we have to work very hard to release all of them and to stop repressive machines. So, you know, every person who had to flee their motherland, forcefully flee, of course they have a lot of challenges in their lives. We are going through transitional repressions. We cannot feel safe because we are still fighting. But I'm so proud that we managed to build what we have built, that we keep unity, that people are not giving up. So of course it gives me a lot of energy to continue. I was going to ask what keeps you going? Because when you first started on your current mission, your husband was in prison. Now that he's been released, what gives
- [28:55]
Rosina Sabor
you the momentum to keep going?
- [28:58]
Francis Durnley
You know, of course my husband is like my personal story, my personal pain. But I always felt this pain for everybody who is in jail. So knowing that still thousands families are separated, thousands children waiting for their daddy's mothers, you know, from prison, seeing that regime is selling our sovereignty of our country to Russia means to save our national identity. And of course, all these challenges don't let me not to give up because I took this responsibility. On the other hand, I feel tremendous support of Belarusian people every day. Communicating with the Belarusians from inside the country, from outside, seeing how again, having like difficult lives. Actually they are also trying to invest and contribute into our fight. So many volunteers who have just resulted, relocated, lost everything, you know, the properties confiscated in Belarus, they're trying to do small things, you know, to support others. So this solidarity, this unity of people really doesn't let me just to stop. And of course I see how having very little space, very little resources and capacity, we manage to keep Belarus high on agenda to mobilize international partners, just not forget about Belarus to contribute. So it's really, you know, this small or big achievements or successes, you know, shows that all our work is not in vain. And that challenge of keeping Belarus in the spotlight is a challenge that President
- [30:33]
Rosina Sabor
Zelensky, Zelensky of Ukraine shares with you. I know you have met with him recently. Was he able to give you some advice?
- [30:42]
Francis Durnley
What did he have any wisdom to share in terms of how to keep up the momentum, how to keep the international agenda focused on Belarus? Actually, of course, President Zelensky is a hero for me personally and for Belarusian nations. Seeing how he's defending the interest of Ukraine despite all the problems and challenges and lack of support, lack of military equipment, just to defeat Russia, you know, he's going on and, you know, looking on this person, very tired, but very dedicated. You know, Ukraine inspires me a Lot of course, you know, all the attention of President Zelensky in Ukraine. Ukrainians are concentrated around Ukraine. It's fully understanded. And our task as builders and just to help as much as we can. We cannot give billions, we cannot give, you know, military equipment. But we can show our solidarity, our military volunteers defending Ukraine. On international arena. We promote and like Ukrainian victory. Because Ukrainian victory connects to fate of Belarus. And President Zelensky understand this fully. So I think that just maybe about half a year ago presidency started to say clearly about European future Belarus about the importance of independency of our country. Because Ukraine also understand that, you know, Lukashenko is not trustworthy, that he can betray at any moment. And we see how on Belarusian territory, Luxanka's regime intensifies presence of Russia. You know, they about to deploy nuclear weapon Russian missiles. They are about 300 Belarusian enterprises are producing military stuff for Russia. They are building new enterprise for constructing drones. So it looks like they're preparing for escalation. And of course President Zensky is very sensitive about this because this escalation might affect not only Ukraine, but also European countries. So we have to put more attention what is happening in Belarus. But simultaneously, of course, I try to help Belarusians live in who live in Ukraine with localization, with different bank issues. So now we about organizing my visit to Ukraine. And I think that we can discuss all these issues more thoroughly.
- [33:00]
Rosina Sabor
When do you plan to go to Ukraine?
- [33:02]
Francis Durnley
So there are no still dates, but I think in nearest month or two.
- [33:07]
Rosina Sabor
Okay.
- [33:07]
Francis Durnley
And you touched there on the fact
- [33:10]
Rosina Sabor
that the fate of Belarus and its democratic future is tied to Ukraine.
- [33:18]
Francis Durnley
Can you explain a little more about what you think the impact of the war in Ukraine is on Belarus role in regional security? I'm certainly sure that the outcome of the war in Ukraine will influence regional order at all. If democratic world will not help Ukrainians enough for them to win this war, it will embolden Putin and he will not stop where he is. You know, we know that Moldova, Armenia, that's right, Georgia. So all the borders will become negotiable, you know, and that's why if Ukraine will not win this war, we can forget about changes in Belarus, you know, for decades. Because it will settle status quo in our country, of course, serving to Putin's interest, who will continue to sell our independency to Russia. So our fights can become very, very tough. But when, hopefully when Ukraine wins this war, it will be huge moment of opportunity for us as well. Because Russia will be distracted with the personal problems, internal Problems like lack of resources, so on and so forth. It will be rather weakened. Hence Lukashenko will be weak and so is his so called power is based only on fear. But when Lukashenko will lose his biggest lie, you know, the system might crumble because you know, in turbulent moments, Putin not always like safe allies. We can very vividly see the example of Syria. So that's why we already preparing our society, preparing our movement for possible wind opportunity. We are trying to work with the Nukotora explaining that we have to prepare for post Lukashenko period. Lukashenko is not immortal, you know, he someone, he will disappear and we have to save our country. And this is our common value. So that's. We just, you know, trying to organize our fight. Not against somebody, not against like Lukashenko personally, because he's just person, but for something for better future for Belarus, you know, for democratization, for rule of law. This is also we educate and Belarus says that it's everybody's obligation or responsibility to fight for it.
- [35:39]
Rosina Sabor
I wanted to just finally ask you
- [35:41]
Francis Durnley
about what role President Trump has played in helping with his engagement in Belarus. And also what impact do you think having a First lady in the White House who is from Eastern Europe and understands the complexities of the relationships there, what impact has that had? So first of all, of course we are really grateful to President Trump administration, John Cole personally, who are engaged within this humanitarian track on releasing political prisoners. More than 300 lives already saved. Still thousands are behind bars. And I hope that very soon we can hug our friends, our beloved who will be released. Of course it's not how to say perfect like releases because people have no choice either to stay in the country or to leave. So they are forcefully deported. And of course our American partners, they put these questions in front of Lukashenko that you know, if people want, they have right to stay in Belarus. Or for example people who are deported out of the country, they have new criminal cases in Belarus they might be accused of used in prison escape. So it's like something mad is happening. And Americans of course feel this, understand this. But our priority is to save people. First of all, the important is that we have to divide humanitarian track from political 1. These actions, this release of political prisoners shouldn't legitimize Lukashenko. So that's why it's important not to overcome play, you know, with, with the Lukashenko, you know, with the, as we say, with the every like strong man there was a strong woman who can wisely influence human, either politician or business businessman. And usually women have very kind hearts, you know, they care about humans. You know, they care about freedom. So that's why I hope that maybe mildly in only first ladies, gentlemen and known manner, she knows how to proceed or influence President Trump to pay more attention to political prisons. And we've seen that she has had an impact in terms of the return of children held captive by Russia to Ukraine. So this is also very important that women usually more sensitive about children, about separating children from the families and of course, encouragement the first lady to continue, first of all, trick of returning children home, but also maybe raise the issue of accountability for these crimes for abduction of Ukrainian children from occupied territories. Because when dictators feel impunity in such actions against children, so again, embolden them, they can think that they might stay unpunished. And we have to to make justice institutions to work more effective, especially on children issues. Thank you very much.
- [38:47]
Rosina Sabor
Well, let's go to our final thoughts then, the final week before we turn into video next week. More on that in a moment. Where do you want to leave listeners, Dom?
- [38:57]
Dominic Nicholls
Well, today, Francis, February 20th is the date that Ukraine marks honors the Heavenly Hundred. So the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry put out a tweet earlier on today marking the one hundred and seven people who were killed during the 2013-14 Revolution of Dignity. And they said the events of February 20, 2014, when the largest number of protesters were killed in Kyiv, marked the culmination of the Maidan, the Maidan Revolution. The Heavenly Hundred, as well as Maidan activists who died in the spring of 2014 due to Russia's aggression in the east of Ukraine, were people of different ages and professions united by shared commitment to protect dignity and the people's right to determine their own future. Today, as Russia continues its aggression against our country, we honor their courage. We remember their sacrifice. So that was from the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry honoring the Heavenly Hundred.
- [39:46]
Rosina Sabor
Thank you very much, Dom. And just a final reminder from me, as Dom said at the top of the episode, to subscribe to our YouTube channel, you'll find the link in the show notes for that. And it means that from next week you'll be able to watch the video launch and you don't want to miss it next week, of course, it's the fourth anniversary, so we're going to have some special guests on and as well as some very, I think, interesting contributions. But I'll say no more for now. You'll see it all and hear it all next week from us here in London. For now, goodbye, Ukraine. The latest is an original podcast from the Telegraph created by David Knowles to support our work and stay on top of all of our Ukraine news, analysis and dispatches from the ground, please subscribe to the Telegraph. You can get one month free, then two months for just one pound at www.telegraph.co.uk UkraineTest deploying cutting edge technology, we also release Ukrainian and Russian versions of this podcast. These translations retain our voices and delivery so that it can reach listeners in every region of Ukraine and those parts of Eastern Europe where Russian is still widely spoken. Links to those can be found in the podcast description to this episode. You can also now sign up to the New Ukraine, the latest weekly newsletter. Each week Dom Nichols and I answer your questions, provide recommended reading and give exclusive analysis and behind the scenes insights plus maps of the front lines and diagrams of weapons to complement our daily reporting. It's free for everyone including non subscribers. You can find the link to sign up in the descriptions for this episode. We regularly have a Ukraine Live blog on our website where you can follow updates as they come in throughout the day, including insights from regular contributors to this podcast. We also do the same for other breaking international stories. If you appreciate our work, please consider following Ukraine the latest on your preferred podcast app and leave us a review as it really helps others find the show. Please also share it with those who may not be aware we exist. You can listen to this conversation live at 1pm London time each weekday on X Spaces. Follow the Telegraph so that you don't miss it. You can also get in touch directly to ask questions or give comments by emailing ukrainepodelegraph.co.uk we continue to read every message. You can also contact us directly on X. You'll find our handles in the description for this episode. As ever, we're especially interested to hear where you're listening from around the world. Ukraine the latest was Today, produced by Phil Atkins. Executive producers are Francis Durnley, Louisa Wells and David Knowles.
- [42:27]
Dominic Nicholls
My name is David Knowles.
- [42:28]
Rosina Sabor
Thank you all for listening.
- [42:29]
Dominic Nicholls
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