← Ukraine: The Latest
Ukraine: The Latest
Pentagon 'asks Ukraine for help' to shoot down Iranian weapons & Putin swells regular Russian army to 2.4 million men
00:55:53
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David Knowles
The telegraph.
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Podcast Host / Announcer
Boost Mobile is now sending experts nationwide to deliver and set up customers new phones.
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David Knowles
Wait, we're going on tour?
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Podcast Host / Announcer
We're delivering and setting up customers phones. It's not a tour.
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Hayden (Fantasy Fan Fellas Producer)
Not with that attitude.
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Podcast Host / Announcer
Introducing store to door switch and get a new device with expert setup and delivery.
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David Knowles
Delivery available for select devices purchased@boostmobile.com Ryan
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Francis Durnley
Reynolds here from Mint Mobile with a message for everyone. Paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good
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David Knowles
in this world, stop with Mint.
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Francis Durnley
You can get premium wireless for just $15 a month.
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David Knowles
Of course, if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments. But that's weird. Okay, one judgment anyway. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment
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Podcast Host / Announcer
of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full terms@mintmobile.com Big news. Boost Mobile is now sending experts nationwide to deliver and set up customers new phones at home or work.
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David Knowles
Wait, we're going on tour?
- [01:01]
Podcast Host / Announcer
Not a tour. We're delivering and setting up customers.
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David Knowles
Easier to upgrade. Let's get in the tour bus and hit the road.
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Podcast Host / Announcer
No, not a tour bus. It's a regular car we use to deliver and set up customers phones at home or work.
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David Knowles
Are you a groupie on this tour?
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Podcast Host / Announcer
We deliver and set up phones. It's not a tour.
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Hayden (Fantasy Fan Fellas Producer)
Oh, you're definitely a groupie.
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Podcast Host / Announcer
Introducing store to door switch and get a new device with expert setup and delivery wherever you're at.
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David Knowles
Delivery available for select devices purchased@boostmobile.com.
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Francis Durnley
I'm Francis Durnley and this is Ukraine. The latest today as the Pentagon and at least one gold state are revealed to be in talks with Kyiv to buy Ukrainian made interceptors to fend off attacks by Iranian drones. We look at the latest expansion of the Russian armed forces before assessing what Moscow is telling its population about war in the Middle East. Then we bring you an exclusive interview with the French ambassador to Ukraine to hear how prepared France is for boots on the ground.
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Hayden (Fantasy Fan Fellas Producer)
Bravery takes you through the most unimaginable hardships to finally reward you with victory.
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David Knowles
Russia does not want Feeschen Werther. If I'm president, I will have that war settled in one day. 24 hours.
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Hayden (Fantasy Fan Fellas Producer)
We are with you. Not just today or tomorrow, but for 100 years.
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James Kilner
Nobody's going to break us. We're strong. We're Ukrainians.
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Francis Durnley
It's Thursday the 5th of March. Four years and nine days since the full scale invasion began. And today I'm Joined by my co hosts, Dominic Nichols and Natalie Pojman Ponte in Ukraine and our Russia analyst, James Kilner. First over to Dom for the latest in the military realm.
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Hayden (Fantasy Fan Fellas Producer)
All right, Francis. Hello, James. So let's start on Monday. Let's go back in time. You may remember we were talking about that Ukrainian strike on Novorossiysk, Russia's Black Sea port. Now they've been kicked out of Crimea. Well, last night a source in the sbu speaking to our friends over at the Kyiv Independent, said that as of that strike they'd hit four Russian ships, including the frigate Admiral Essen, which carries Kalibr cruise missiles. Also the Russian minesweeper the Valentin Picol. And they said they severely damaged another two anti submarine ships, the Yesk and the Kazimov. They said they killed three sailors in the attack and injured 14 others. Now the frigate Admiral Essen carries caliber cruise missiles, was said to have been hit in its midsection. There was a load of technical mumbo jumbo, didn't really understand about radars and all the rest of it that they're damaged, but basically they say this was the source in the SBU speaking to the Kyiv Independent said the ship sustained critical damage, significantly limiting its ability to deploy caliber cruise missiles. At present, the frigate cannot strike targets in Ukraine. They say the strike also damaged six of the seven oil landing berths at the Shescaris oil terminal in Novorossiysk, as well as other port infrastructure, air defense systems and a guidance radar. Now, the source said there are no protected areas for Russian military facilities. As long as Russia rages war against Ukraine, it will have no peace anywhere, neither at sea, nor on land, nor in the rear. Now, across the country in Ukraine in the last 24 hours, 136 of 155 drones were brought down, according to Ukraine's air force. Now that's shot down electronic warfare or just piled in. Seven people were killed across the country, 25 injured, two women, one age 27, the other 64 were killed in Kharkiv oblast. There were other deaths in Donetsk and Kherson oblast. Regional Governor Ole Kiepa said that Russian drone had hit a Panamanian flagged vessel carrying corn in the Black Sea last night, injuring some of the crew. That's thought to have been in the port of Chonomorsk, which is just south of Odessa city itself. Now, freelance journalist Tim White, who's always worth a follow, he's been reporting in the last couple of hours another attack on a moving train in Ukraine this week. Remember, there were three in the space of two days earlier this week. While he's suggesting there's been another one in Dnipro Petrov, he said a drone has hit the electric locomotive of a freight train, injuring the driver and his assistant. He said the exact location has not yet been confirmed, but he thinks it's near Kamiansk now. A couple more for me. You may remember September 2024, going back a little bit now, but Putin signed a decree increasing the size of the Russian army. Not the whole Russian armed forces, just the Russian army. Well, he's done it again. Yesterday he signed another decree expanding the Russian regular Army to nearly 2.4 million personnel. As we've said before, he's desperate to increase the number of people in the army without full mobilization and the political backlash that that may invite. Earlier this year, you'll remember, as we reported, he moved from seasonal conscription, the normal spring and autumn conscription models, to a year round conscription model. He continues to rely now on contracts, recruitment and financial rewards to try and keep people in and encourage others to join, although we know that those financial inducements have been drying up. And as we've been reporting recently, Ukraine is saying that they are now killing more people or taking more Russian soldiers off the battlefield than they are able to replace. And just break in this morning, there's been another prison of war exchange. That's 200 Ukrainians and Russians equal number swapped both sides. This deal brokered by the United States and the United Arab Emirates. The ages of the 200 return to Ukraine vary from 27 to 59. President Zelenskyy has said every time our people return home, it proves that Ukraine is working to return each and every one. We do not forget anyone. And that is a very quick update, Francis.
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Francis Durnley
Well, thanks very much, Dom. Now, all week, given the chaos sown by Iranian drones and ballistic missiles hitting targets across the Middle east, we've underscored Ukraine's expertise in air defence and how President Zelensky has offered that expertise to multiple countries in exchange for support in his war against Russia. Well, today in a twist no one could have seen coming after the Trump administration halted weapons donations to Kyiv, forcing European allies to buy them and ship them instead and repeatedly defaming Ukraine. It is now Washington turning to Kyiv for assistance. The Financial Times reports that the Pentagon and at least one Gulf government are in talks to buy Ukrainian made interceptors to fend off attacks by Iranian drones. As we've discussed, Gulf states had been using expensive Patriot missiles which cost millions of dollars to defend themselves from waves of shahed Drones that cost around $30,000. Not only is that exceedingly expensive, but their stocks are declining and they are looking, we understand, to Ukraine's expertise for cheaper defense against drone barrages. Now, we reported how Zelenskyy said he'd been in touch with several Gulf states about the use of Ukrainian anti Dr. Earlier in the week. But it seems that the Americans are also behind the scenes seeking to learn from Kyiv as more of their ships arrive in the Middle East. Zelenskyy said Ukraine's expertise in countering shahed drones is currently the most advanced in the world. However, any such cooperation aimed at protecting our partners can only proceed without diminishing our own defence capabilities. But I have tasked Ukraine's Minister of Foreign affairs, together with our intelligence agencies, the Ministry of Defence and our military command, to present options for assisting the relevant countries and to provide aid in a way that does not weaken our own defence. Here in Ukraine, our military possesses the necessary capabilities. Ukrainian experts will operate on site so in the Middle east, and teams are already coordinating these efforts. Now, despite this offer, the White House isn't showing any contrition publicly. Caroline Levitt, the White House secretary, had this to say yesterday.
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Podcast Host / Announcer
Unfortunately, we had a very stupid and incompetent leader in this White House for four years who gave away many of our best weapons for nothing, for free,
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James Kilner
to another country very far away by
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Podcast Host / Announcer
the name of Ukraine. So the president was pointing out how
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David Knowles
that was an unwise decision.
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Podcast Host / Announcer
But nevertheless, don't doubt the strength and the might of the American military now,
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Francis Durnley
even if one doesn't consider Ukraine's survival as a strategic imperative for the free world. Many of those weapons were defensive to save the lives of men, women and children in Ukrainian cities during winter. Even with American support. Shortages last year were extremely serious, as we reported at the time, at almost every level, and we're only learning now just how serious it was. As Reuters report, Ukraine's F16 fighter jets didn't have enough missiles to shoot down drones and missiles for more than three weeks, from late November to mid December after supplies from Kyiv's partners dried up, just as Moscow was preparing that massive winter air campaign. Now, that's not previously been reported, the authors say Reuters could not establish the cause of the shortages, nor whether the delays were down to the US or European foot dragging, only that Ukraine's foreign partners had told Kyiv that they had no available stocks without specifying which partners. Now, this continues to be a pivotal issue and will likely become even more so as countries seek to hold on to more of their Weapons, given events in the Gulf. And just turning to another consequence of events there. Yesterday, Putin floated the idea of cutting off gas supplies to Europe, telling reporters that a shortage triggered by the war in Iran could give Moscow other export opportunities. It might be more profitable for us to stop supplies to the European market right now, he said, to move to those markets that are opening up and gain a foothold there. Customers have emerged who are willing to buy the same natural gas at higher prices, in this case due to events in the Middle east, the closure of the Strait of Hormuz and so on. This is natural. There's nothing here. There's no political agenda. It is just business. It's not personal, sonny. But for more on the impact, positive and negative for Moscow, I would point you to yesterday's episode where we talk about the closing of the strait in far more detail, but staying with energy. And just to wrap up, there's been a further escalation in the row between Ukraine, Slovakia and Hungary, with Slovak Prime Minister Robert Fico claiming he has satellite imagery proving that the Druzhba oil pipeline, which previously transited Russian oil, isn't damaged after all. So President Zelenskyy is demonstratively lying, Fico claimed, though he said he couldn't provide the imagery because the photos are actually classified. Now, because of this, Slovakia's grid operator says it will terminate a deal with K, cut electricity exports. But Ukraine is bullish. In response, we can only congratulate Bratislava for preparing to shoot itself in the foot, a spokesman said. Ukraine purchases the electricity and does not receive it for free. So the FICO government will simply deprive Slovak companies of earnings while Ukraine will receive this electricity from other sources. Now, there's been no word of any progress in the EU meetings we spoke about yesterday, either on that pipeline issue or or More crucially, the 90 billion euro loan to Kyiv currently blocked by Hungary. And just one final word on energy. Our pals at the Kyiv Independent have drawn attention to a report by Dixie Group claiming that Rosatom, Russia's state nuclear cooperation, operates 21 entities that are directly involved in weapons production but currently face no EU sanctions. Rosatom became the plant operator at Zaporizhzhia, you may recall, after the occupation, and also oversees what the report calls an ecosystem of subsidiaries and affiliates that support Russia's military industrial complex, producing, among other things, drone components and dual use equipment. We'll link to that story too in the show notes to those especially interested in the sanctions loopholes. But let's go now to our Russia analyst in well, I'm guessing it's sunny Yorkshire, James, but if I'm wrong, do correct me. You've been working your way through the Kremlin propaganda and media so that we can save a few brain cells here in London. London and around the world. But I think, to be serious for a moment, this is a major, major week and I'd be fascinated to hear how the Kremlin is reporting the events in the Middle East.
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James Kilner
I'm actually enjoy Rich spot, Francis, so let's put that one to bed. Anyway, the way the Russian media is reported, what's going on in the Middle East, Iran is, to say the least, bifurcated. You've got the Kremlin propaganda machines, the mainstream propaganda machines, the newspapers broadcasting on TV that we've spoken about so much. And then you've got the freewheeling bloggers, military bloggers, commentators on Telegram who in many ways reflect more accurately the attitudes and opinions of ordinary Russians. It's the escape valve that we've been talking about. They've been allowed to freestyle it on Telegram for four years of this war. We know that the Kremlin is going to shut down Telegram on Eckberg first. The military bloggers have been using this as an excuse. They're very much pre war, but they've been very much using various parts of the war to criticize a Kremlin and the way it persecutes and prosecutes its war. And it's again saying, this is another example of the Kremlin being weak and feeble in the face of strength. A channel called Combat Reserve, saying that Russia's allies will start deserting it because we haven't provided the assistance we promise. So direct criticism there. Now he's on the Dugin. He's the nationalist far right philosopher sometimes linked to the Kremlin. But that link's actually very tangential, saying that Trump and Netanyahu are just allowed to posture with total impunity on the world stage, do what they want. You've got another military blogger who likens the whole Iran conflict from the Russian point of view to a robbery going on next door. And he says that you may pretend you've never heard what's going on next door, but, quote, there's a catch, you'll be next. So they're very much framing this as a Russian weakness. One commentator who really sums it up nicely, says, so far, the main conclusion from all these events, the leaders of various countries is that being allies of China and Russia is dangerous. Maduro was kidnapped, Khamenei was killed. What's going to happen to Kiba? That's been the take on the influential and important commentators on Telegram. The state media has been quite disciplined in the way it's approached it. It's taken its line and basically said that prior to this war, it's been fairly pro Trump and pro the US over the eu. Now it seems to have decided that this is the departure point. And they're very much framing Washington, the US as warmongers. The main line is that they were using the talks last week in Geneva between Iran and the US to prepare for war. They had no intention, the US had no intention of actually finding a solution. It was to prepare the ground for war. They're openly saying, what is the point in having negotiations with the US Anymore? They will just do exactly the same to us as they've done to Iran. You know, we shouldn't be doing this. Vladimir Solovyov, he's one of the mainstream commentators on tv, he says it's now clear to us in the negotiation process appears to be no more than part of their military operation, a redeployment against a peaceful opponent. The technique will be used against us. So the framing has changed utterly in the Russian media, mainstream media, since the strikes on Iran, saying the US can't be trusted, there's no point in having any more negotiations. And I think from that standpoint, you know, it's talking about the US as being a war, you know, committing war crimes without bombing Tehran and allegedly hitting the school and killing 170 people, many children. But it's very much framing it as us are the bad guys. There is no point in having the negotiations, which, if you continue down that frame of thought, really plays into the Kremlin's strategy of lip service and negotiations, if at all continuing in the war. It's an opportunistic framing of the war by the Russian media to twist the Ukraine negotiations against the usa.
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Francis Durnley
Fascinating. Well, that's, as you say, going to have major ramifications that follows through to what we might expect eventually to see, which is another trilateral meeting, but that has been deliberately postponed as a consequence of everything that's going on. And I think we can expect that to last for some time. But, James, let's look then closer at the domestic context in Russia at the moment in terms of civic society and an interesting story about a plaque.
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James Kilner
So this is just an insight into the psychology of the Russian state and the Russian people. Alan Polokovskaya, Russian, high profile, intelligent journalist, was murdered on 10-7-2006, in a building off well streets called Lesnolita, across the way from Belarusko Bags well, the one of the major train stations in Moscow. She was shot dead on a sunny Saturday lunchtime. I remember I was there as a young, younger Reuters correspondent and this was one of my first major stories having been posted to Moscow. And I watched the hospital, the medical teams pull her body out of the building. The reverberations of that murder were felt all around. Russia in 2006 was a much more enlightened Russia. Society was active and she was at the apex of challenging Putin and his strategy, especially in the North Caucus of Chechnya, Dagestan, Ingusheta, places like that. They sent a few, a handful of Chechen guys to prison for shooting her dead. And the feeling was that Ramzan Kadydov, he's the president of Chechnya, may have ordered her murder as some sort of sick birthday present for Putin. He wasn't president of Chechnya at this point. He was trying to impress Putin to become president of Chechnya. So that's the, the background there. The point is here, I think this is the 25th or 26th time that this plaque has been desecrated or torn off this building. The plaque is perfectly legal. It's not the authorities who've been pulling it off. It's far right activist groups who have basically been allowed to do this by the police. And they see it as weak, liberal minded Russians trying to celebrate one of their own. And it's very much the context of, you know, Russia having traveled so far to the right and not putting up with any diversification of the discourse. I think in this year, so in the last two months or so, it's been ripped off about 12 times and it keeps getting put back up. So, you know, it just shows, it encapsulates the craziness of where Russia is.
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Francis Durnley
Yeah, as you say, a revealing story. And for those of you who are watching this, you'll have just seen that footage of the plaque being installed. But if you're listening to this, then that's an advantage of checking out the video version on YouTube. I know that when you're collecting your stories, James, they don't always fit under clear brackets. So what other stories have caught your eye and assembly for us?
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James Kilner
One story I think is actually very important. Breaking story this morning through the morning, Azerbaijan has reported that an Iranian drone has crashed near Natchkevan airport. Natchez, exclaved between Armenia and Turkey, apparently injured two people, was identified as a Shahed drone in the last couple of hours, Azerbaijani President Ilham Aliyev has come out and directly accused Iran of a terrorist act. Iran has denied this. The Azerbaijani foreign minister has since said that it reserves the right to respond. So we have a potential escalation here of the war in Iran. Very quickly, the context is Azerbaijan is actually an ally of Israel. It has been for 15, 20 years. Buys Israeli military kit and sells energy, gas and oil to Israel. At one point it was flanked up that Azerbaijan might be used as a forward operating base by Israeli forces to fly sorties against Iran. That has not been happening. Aliyev has been president of Azerbaijan. To be very clear, that's not happening. But Iran will look at Azerbaijan as a potential Israeli ally. You know, this is the potential bridge between the war going on in Iran and the war in Ukraine. So if Azerbaijan does get pulled into this war in Iran, it will potentially bring Russia closer to the war as Bazhon is a former Soviet state and then that will obviously have ramifications for Ukraine. Now, how an Iranian drone ends up in Nashkivan is another question. It's a long way from Iran. There's no US bases around there. There's no reason for that drone to be there. It could of course have been an accident. Could be a long way, of course, a lack of command and control at a local unit level by Iran. We know that they've been empowered somehow to fire a will sort of thing or it could be a deliberate attempt to expand the war. And I think that is the real concern here and very important for our listeners to watch out for really quickly. On the economic side, the main story here is that Moscow city government said it might have to lay off 3,000 subservients because of slowdown in the city's economy. Sobyanin, the mayor who said we might have to cut the city's budget. This will be the first time since 2013 that Moscow City has had to cut its budget. An indication of just how serious the economic conditions are in Russia.
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Francis Durnley
Well, thanks very much James, as ever, for your update. Now over to Adli in Kyiv for a special interview with the French Ambassador to Ukraine. In the week when President Macron declared the biggest shift to its nuclear policy in 30 years, we bring you one of the deepest dives we've done on Paris's approach to the war. The weapons provided, how far along French British plans are for boots on the ground and why France's approach to defence is so different to many other countries. They also discussed the echoes of the French Resistance in the Second World War with resistance by Ukrainians in the occupied territories today. Over to Adelaide.
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Podcast Host / Announcer
I'm here in the French Embassy in Kyiv. It's a beautiful morning in the capital after a quiet night as well. And I'm about to go and speak with Mr. Gael Vessier, the French Ambassador. Monsieur Ambassador.
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Francis Durnley
Bonjour. Bonjour.
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Podcast Host / Announcer
So, first of all, I want to start by asking you what is it like to be ambassador in a country at war? Is it very different from the previous postings that you've had?
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David Knowles
Thank you for having me in the program first. But yeah, actually it's very different. Before being ambassador to Ukraine, I was ambassador to Croatia, so it was a very different setting, obviously. But at the same time, this war in Ukraine is not easy because war is everywhere. We discuss about war all the time, we see war all the time. But during many moments, actually, life is nearly normal. So sometimes you could even forget about war, but sooner or later, war will catch you and will impose its own rhythm to you. So it's unsettling. But I think. I think the important thing for us is to stand with Ukraine, to stand with Ukrainian people. And they are magnificent people with an incredible resilience. So it's often honor our duty to try to be up to this task.
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Podcast Host / Announcer
How did that change your role as an ambassador? Because obviously you represent French interests to Ukraine, but to what extent do you also become not an ambassador for Ukraine, of course, but also helping the Ukrainians maybe get their point across to the French government?
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David Knowles
Well, actually, this is in the very nature of the ambassador role or the diplomatic role. So of course you represent your country's interests and values. And actually we have lots of interests and values in common with Ukraine as other countries in Europe, including uk. But at the same time, it's also to explain to Paris what's the position of Ukrainian government authorities, what's happening inside the Ukrainian population so that it could be understood better. And sometimes, yes, we have an advocacy role, but in any case, we are here to apply the instructions which are given to us by our capital. It's not difficult in Ukraine because we are friends and partners and allies, and we try to support them in this difficult war.
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Podcast Host / Announcer
We're in the week of the fourth year anniversary of the war. What is your assessment of the situation now and how has Ukraine changed as a country in those last four years? Obviously, war is a catalyst for change. So what is your assessment?
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David Knowles
Well, I've been there for two years and a half now, and even in two years and a half I've seen things change a lot, but I think it started in 2014 in reality, and this country changed dramatically. It is more united than it ever was in its history. And it's united, of course, against the Russian migration. So there is this very strong national pride and national determination, which is of course very good. And the other thing which is striking and it goes on and it's even stronger with years is the determination of Ukraine to rejoin Europe, which in their view is both the eu, European Union and when it will be possible, NATO. So they feel themselves as Europeans and this is very impressive. In reality, Europeans are talking war. So it's even more important for us to stand with them in this, of course, difficult situation. But I think that as you said, war is a catalyst, usually catalyst into a bad direction, but not in Ukraine, but many other peace. War is also a catalyst of other things. Look at NATO, for example. NATO's role is definitely not the same now because of the war in Ukraine. So it's also a global thing and it is a direct consequence of this war led by Russia.
- [27:18]
Podcast Host / Announcer
Let's go a bit deeper on military and on military support, especially from France to Ukraine. So France and Ukraine have had a long standing military partnership since the beginning of the war. Can you talk more about the different types of support, the different types of weapons? We know that False has delivered Mirage. There is also a plan to deliver Rafael in the future. If there's anything you can share about that. There's also talks of. There's also a drone partnership. What does that look like four years into the war?
- [27:48]
David Knowles
Okay, so there was a first phase basically after the invasion where the main Ukrainian army would need nearly anything. And we tried to provide what we had in stock. Okay, so this is things that we did. So now of course, things have changed because there are many things that the Ukrainian, Ukrainians actually do produce themselves. So they don't need anything. They need some specific items. So we try to be focused and to try to help them in what is very influential and that what would make a difference. I think that this is what we managed to do historically. For example, we were the first country to provide some tanks, the AMX10LC. And because we did this, it was considered because some of the countries were afraid that it would be escalatory in nature towards Russia. But being able to do this as France actually on the decision by French president, it actually demonstrated that, no, it was not escalatory. It was a good way for Ukraine to defend itself. And then it opened the door for others for German tanks or US tanks. And I think that this is an important. It's also a kind of catalyst broadcast. So the idea is to bring both materials. We do contribute also for the air defense, which is very important in this country with Santi Systems, which is a kind of patriot, same kind of material, we don't have many of them. So actually it's difficult to provide enough. Of course we have this cooperation, including with UK by providing Ukraine the deep strikes capabilities, Storm Shadows and. And scalps. Scalps being the French version and Storm Shadows the British version. And yes, as you mentioned it rightly, the next step is to deliver some much more substantial materials, equipments. So there was this agreement signed in November in Paris with President Zelensky and President Macron. The idea is to go towards direction of providing some half hour plates, but of course it takes some time. It takes some time. So we are on this process of the discussion with the Ukrainians and it takes some efforts and financing. So that's quite an important step ahead. But we are discussing that right now. The difficult thing is that Ukraine needs of course to do two things at the same time. They need to get what is immediately necessary for war, for the military operations here and now, but they also need to plan for what will happen in six months, in one year, in two years. And in any case their needs would be huge because even after a cease of peace plan, the first security guarantee will be a strong Ukrainian army. So they would definitely need a lot of things. But they have to strike the balance between those two needs. And actually it's obviously pretty difficult, but we are committed into discussing that with them, but also with, with other friends and partners. And yes, we mentioned drones. So the next step is of course to co produce drones such as other countries are actually doing, Germany or UK and others. So we are going to do this too. And actually it's the next phase which is not giving or providing equipment, but building together, which is of course much more advanced. And this is the meaning of an agreement that Madame Vautro, the French Minister for Defence, signed when she was here on the 7th of September with Minister Fedorov.
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Podcast Host / Announcer
I'm intrigued considering how advanced Ukraine has become in terms of drone warfare and drone developed industrial development. That partnership, what does it look like? Is it Ukrainians bringing the expertise and then France bringing the industrial capabilities? How, what does that look like?
- [31:39]
David Knowles
Well, this kind of partnership, basically we can provide, be it France, uk, whatever European country, country in Europe, we can provide of course the investment. So in financial amounts we can provide some technological capabilities that we have and by Ukraine may not have, but there are also technical technological capabilities that Ukraine has and that nobody else in the world hub, because basically they have this incredible agility and this. And then Ukraine also provides some industrial property and also, which is very important combat data. So what happens with these drones, for example, that we produce? And this has got a lot of value, including economic value, of course, because it's not the same thing to test a drone in an airfield somewhere in France or in uk, and to have something which is deployed on the battlefield. So that's fairly the balance. And all in all, the important thing is that everybody would need those productions. Actually, Ukraine definitely need them. They were aiming at some point to have at least 4 million drones produced in Ukraine for this year. But our old armies in Europe will need a much, far greater number of drones than we have now, obviously. So war is changing, so we have to adapt. So we have a joint interest.
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Podcast Host / Announcer
The intelligence situation has massively changed over the last year, since the beginning of President Trump's second presidency. Obviously they cut intelligence to Ukraine last year around this time, and I've read that now France provides two thirds of intelligence to Ukraine. Can you tell us how has that change been able to happen so fast? And what does that mean for Ukraine and for France in terms of intelligence sharing?
- [33:32]
David Knowles
Well, I'm sure you understand there is not much I'm allowed to say in this regard, but yes, we provide a lot. We are not the only ones, including for images, for example, but we are not the only ones. Obviously, UK is doing a lot, Germany, others. But the important thing is that, that Ukraine would be assured that they have what they need. So certainly we don't have the same capabilities as the Americans, that's for sure. We'd be going to provide the same kind of value of things, but we do have some capabilities and it's important. And this war, and in this war, intelligence gathering is very important, actually. The American authorities provide some of this intelligence to Ukraine, which is very good and very useful. But the more they have, actually, the more efficient they can get. And I think it's a survival issue for Ukraine, definitely. So we are happy, we are doing a lot. We are including cooperation with France and partners such as uk and we are happy to continue in this because I think it's really key.
- [34:32]
Podcast Host / Announcer
Is it part also of France thinking in terms of strategic autonomy to be providing more intelligence to Ukraine and to try to take as much space where the Americans are maybe less of a reliable partner?
- [34:47]
David Knowles
Well, the idea is that at some point, every country does what it feels, right? So we do think that's very important. So we do our share. And if this share would need to be more important, then of course we would try to see how much more we could do. So this is what we are doing. But again, for the time being, the US do provide many things to Ukraine and actually that's useful. That's very good. So we hope it's going to stay like this. About strategic autonomy. It's a long standing French vision, actually for Europe. We think that this war truly demonstrates how important that is at the end of the day. And we also think that this is definitely not something which would be presented as it is sometimes against the U.S. on the contrary, this is going precisely in the sense that President Trump would request the Europeans, including inside NATO, so that we would spend together much more, we in Europe for our own defense, that we would take the lead in what conceals directly Europe, and that actually we would invest for the future. I think this is what we are doing in France. The budget of the armed forces forces will double in five years, which is a huge effort. But many countries in Europe are actually trying to follow this kind of reasoning. At the end of the day, the important thing is that we in Europe, we would be partners, able to weigh in in any kind of situation like this by ourselves. And it's also a way to be better partners together with the US Both sides.
- [36:31]
Podcast Host / Announcer
And is that why, for example, France isn't participating in mechanisms such as pearl or interflex, for example? It seems that France always does a little bit of its own thing. Is that a sense of French exceptionalism? How would you explain that to a foreign audience?
- [36:50]
David Knowles
Okay. They are very different things. And your question, if I may. So to begin by broad picture, you know, I've been in this diplomatic world for some years now and I remember timing, let's say 10 years ago, where actually there were very strong differences of views between EU and NATO about security, for example. And we would spearhead the efforts for the EU to be much more autonomous and active and be accused in NATO by others not to be such a good potha. This time is completely up. When you look at what happened during since the beginning of this war in 2022, actually, the EU and NATO do work hand in hand in an extremely positive, constructive way. And this is definitely what we need. We are major in both organizations. So for us, obviously it's key. So we are working together. And for example, we do think this is what I tried to explain earlier but we do think that there is lots of value to have a stronger European part inside NATO, to take responsibility for more things, to be more active, to have more financial commitments inside our own budget. At the end of the day, the strength of troops is an asset both for the eu, for NATO and Nichollin. So all this is going hand in hand. Then your specific question on pearl. It's true that we don't participate into the pearl program because we do think that we. Well, because there are other ways to support and to provide equipment for Ukraine, for example, when we provide Mirage airplanes to Ukraine, it's not going to be financed by pearl by definition. So I mean, okay, so we are doing other things in our own way. And I do think that we don't have anything against the mechanism in reality. Okay. And we do appreciate, and that's an important thing, we do appreciate also that inside the EU programs and when there is some EU financing, it's a huge tool, a huge leverage for us together to build a stronger industrial basis, defense industrial bases in Europe. So for Europeans, so for EU members. But there are some equipments that we know that Ukraine actually need and they need it now, such as, I don't know, PAC3 for Patriots, for example, and this nobody else can provide but the United States of America. So there is no problem on principle for us. So that this one A could also be used for these urgent needs when there is no European alternative which would be available right now. So we don't see a contradiction here. We'd rather see diversification of efforts, but
- [39:37]
Podcast Host / Announcer
getting into the same, having several mechanisms in place that can fill the different need and the different gaps.
- [39:43]
David Knowles
Exactly. And in a different way. Ultimately what is important is that we would talk to each other so that we would not duplicate. But I think this is now being done very effectively and also try to fill in in what Ukraine really needs. Right. Because okay, it must be combat driven, driven by a situation frontline and what the needs of Ukraine are to protect its army, but also its own population.
- [40:09]
Podcast Host / Announcer
I want to talk about boots on the ground and the coalition of the willing. Is France ready to deploy? Should there be a ceasefire in the next few months, in the next few weeks? And what does that look like from where you sit as ambassador?
- [40:21]
David Knowles
Well, In January, on the 6th of January precisely, there was a coalition of the willing meeting physically in Paris. Prime Minister Stormer was there. President Macron, of course, was hosting the event. President Zelenskyy was there. And at some point there was a signature with the UK Prime Minister, French President and President Zelenskyy about precisely this. So the framework is very clear, as you said, it's only in the framework of a ceasefire. So we are not going to be co belligerent. It's something different. It's in the framework of a ceasefire. And yes, the intention is that if there would be a request for Ukraine, purposely, the intention is that there would be a multinational force representing the coalition of the willing, which could be deployed in Ukraine, both in the air, on land and in the sea, and with different aims. But the main aim would be, the first aim would be to support the regeneration of the Ukrainian army, because the first security guarantee is for you create a strong Ukrainian army. So it means equipment, it means drilling, it means training, it means your always. But the second aim is also, as far as the land forces are concerned, to exert a kind of deterrence so that Russia, Russia would know that if they would start a big invasion again, well, that would mean a clash with those troops. So this is what we call France destruction in the classic term, of course. And I think that it's an important tool because it's a very strong reassurance for Ukraine. In this country where I lean now, you have this feeling that in the past there were lots of commitments which were made to support Ukrainian independence and Ukrainian security. In particular, the Budapest memorandum, when Ukraine gave up all the nuclear weapons that were on its territory in exchange for security guarantees, we knew what happened. Right. In 2014, in 2022. And sometimes Worlds are not completely enough. So having boots on the ground is precisely a reassurance. And the security guarantee of a completely different nature for Ukraine.
- [42:45]
Podcast Host / Announcer
Is France ready to deploy?
- [42:47]
David Knowles
Well, that's. But of course, it's a decision by the French president in the conditions I explain it. Yes. And the idea is that, well, not only us, actually, so there will be other countries deploying, but yes, definitely that's the intention of this whole scheme.
- [43:06]
Podcast Host / Announcer
The British and French relationship, therefore, is more important than ever. What does that look like on the ground in Kyiv with your colleagues from the British Embassy, and what sort of preparations are necessary for that deployment to be implemented?
- [43:22]
David Knowles
From what you said, okay, There is an intense cooperation with the British Embassy, with my extremely good friend and colleague Neeb, actually, and all his team. They're wonderful people, and actually, we have lots of work to do together. So this is precisely what we are doing precisely about. More precisely about your question, of course, if you want to be ready to deploy troops, including land troops, you need lots of preparation. So this process is being done it has started for a few months now. So we have a huge number of visitors from both the ministers, Armenia in France and the Department of Defense in UK and coming in. So sometimes I receive them when I could be of added value. Sometimes it's purely technical military. But there is a huge influx of people preparing all this so that all will be. All the plants would be ready. It's a huge operation, but of course it's said to be fully prepared. As you know, we have what is called an OHQ for this, which is now in France. The agreement is that it will be in a few months in UK and then we'll come back for the purification of this operation in all its dimensions. Not only force, of course, but the other dimensions.
- [44:41]
Podcast Host / Announcer
And yet within that extended cooperation with the UK and the coalition of the willing France has put some conditions into the SAFE mechanism and created some difficulties for the UK to join the SAFE mechanism. How do you explain that? Is that a dichotomy? How do you explain how does that work with the extended British French collaboration?
- [45:04]
David Knowles
So an agreement has been filed on unsafe attributes. So now, now it's. It works and the UK does have its role in this.
- [45:11]
Podcast Host / Announcer
One thing I've been thinking a lot since I've been covering this war, in terms of also historical parallels is when I think of the temporarily occupied territories and we report on this show very often on the Ukrainian resistance in the otter by territories, but also stories of collaboration. And you know, as a French citizen, having grown up in France, these are stories I've heard about World War II a lot and we all have. And these still infants are very much part of the French psyche and of the French national identity. These ideas of resistance collaborations, how they were dealt with from a French perspective, what is going to mean for Ukrainian society when peace does come in terms of dealing with that inheritance, how is it going to shape the Ukrainian psyche? Is there any parallels to be drawn with what happened in France? Also in terms of what happened with collaborators? I often think about that. I'm just really curious what your insights are.
- [46:16]
David Knowles
It's a very good question and a very difficult one because it depends on the psyche of the people at the end of the day. And you don't know, and I don't think they know either because situation is very different now. It's a peacetime discussion in reality. But definitely there are a few things we should be aware of. One of these things is that I think that sometimes in Ukraine, including in the low, the legal instruments they have, they're a bit blunt so they don't make the distinction between real political collaboration of somebody who chose actually Russia against Ukraine and people who under occupied territory would just continue to do their job because they think it's their duty. Teachers, for example, with children. And of course situations are very different, right. If you auto proclaim, become mayor representative of a Russian authorities in occupied territory or if you're just a teacher doing school. So there would be some very sensitive political, political and core issues which have to be addressed. We are not there yet because the country is completely united against the aggression, against the war that Russia imposes. But definitely these questions will reopen. There will be inevitably a difficult moment as we saw in France after the duration, definitely it was not so long in the French case. Even though the impact of this, our history is definitely very significant and strong. But it will have to be dealt with to be dealt with adequately. I'm sure that the Ukrainian authorities have this in mind. And for example, the signals they send towards Ukrainian people abroad is that they will be welcomed back in Ukraine, including those those who may not be in a regular situation, main men, for example, towards their military obligations in Ukraine. So I mean, it's a political issue, it's a sensitive one. But the message which is sent to them is actually, well, when it is on our, please come back and help us reconstruct this country which is openness and giving hell. And that's good obviously. But at the end of the day it would be very political issues with which have to be addressed by Ukrainians themselves. We can certainly share some story for experience and knowledge, but the world was very different in 1925, as it would be hopefully 2026 if there was a peace in 2026.
- [48:58]
Podcast Host / Announcer
I want to talk a little bit about your personal experience of the war. What's the worst raid you've experienced? And is there an anecdote or a particular story that you seen in your time as ambassador and that sticks with you on a day to day basis?
- [49:12]
David Knowles
Okay, well, there have been a huge number of air raids and missiles attacks and some of them of course stronger than others. But you know, we try to be resilient and in any case we are prepared. Last year in 2025 and all the 365 days, there was 361 days with strikes somewhere on Ukrainian territory. So it means only four days without. So, you know, you have to get used to it. Maybe one anecdote it is that sometimes you, you know, there are these strikes, we have to go to shelter. So you worry for Your team, your work or people you know. Okay. And this is obvious, but sometimes you have normal diplomatic moments. I remember a visit to Venezia with mayor of Nancy and the mayor of Karlsruhe because they have. In Germany because they have together a cooperation with Venezia. And we were together in the city hall and with a German embassy. And then we went out and in the street, there was. In the center of town, you have small monuments for the fallen soldiers of Ukraine. And of course, we pay tribute to those fallen soldiers. And then suddenly one member of the. Well, an interpreter would cry because it's her brother. He's been killed two weeks ago. And. And suddenly, in a very normal moment, you realize what war is. Actually, there is a poll saying that actually two thirds of Ukrainian lost or had wounded somebody from their inner family circle or somebody close to them. Two thirds. I mean, it's huge. And regularly you forget both, or you want to forget both world. It's a human thing, but. But then it. It blows up to your face because this is the severity of this terrible situation.
- [51:23]
Podcast Host / Announcer
I also want to ask, do you have a favorite French, Ukrainian anecdote? The UK is a country of pub quizzes, so is there a fun fact that would help me win a pub quiz about France and Ukraine?
- [51:34]
David Knowles
Oh, that's an unsettling question. Actually, I. Okay, actually there is. There is a great Ukrainian author which is called Andrei Kurkov. You may know him. Okay. He's a great author, but he's also a great person and he's a great advocate for Ukraine in France. He speaks wonderful French, and I think he himself is a kind of answer to your pop for. Because he has this wonderful understanding. Both France and of not many other countries, but also of Ukraine and his nose are a bridge towards our two countries. So I think that this kind of persons actually, which make you realize all the value of this bond between the different countries. So, yeah, that would be my answer.
- [52:27]
Podcast Host / Announcer
Okay, Ambassador, thank you very much for your time.
- [52:29]
David Knowles
Thank you so much.
- [52:32]
Francis Durnley
Foreign. From the Athletic FC podcast. Ever feel your workload is out of control? Like you're wearing every hat and you're expected to be everywhere at once? Running a business means juggling books, payments, leads, payroll, basically everything. But with Intuit, QuickBooks, your workload gets unloaded. QuickBooks gives you access to Intuit's powerful AI agents and trusted experts. They work together to handle the tedious stuff so you can get back to what actually grows your business. And because everything's streamlined on one platform, your customer management, accounting, expenses and payroll, all work seamlessly in just one place. So go ahead, outdo it with Intuit QuickBooks and get 50% off QuickBooks online for three months. Terms and conditions apply. Feature availability may vary by product. Visit QuickBooks.com for details.
- [53:32]
Hayden (Fantasy Fan Fellas Producer)
Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [53:40]
David Knowles
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball. But you can call me the Smash Daddy. And we are currently deep diving Brandon
- [53:46]
Hayden (Fantasy Fan Fellas Producer)
Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [53:53]
David Knowles
That's right. Hey hey. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to everything, single chapter.
- [53:58]
Hayden (Fantasy Fan Fellas Producer)
And along the way we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next.
- [54:04]
David Knowles
Spoiler alert.
- [54:04]
Hayden (Fantasy Fan Fellas Producer)
He'll be wrong.
- [54:05]
David Knowles
News flash, I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday and you can find Fantasy Fan fellows wherever you get your podcasts. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium
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Francis Durnley
Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying.
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David Knowles
It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did it and have one of your assistant's assistants switch
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Francis Durnley
you to Mint Mobile today.
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David Knowles
I'm told it's super easy to do@mintmobile.com
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Podcast Host / Announcer
Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month required intro rate first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra fee, full terms@mintmobile.com
- [54:45]
David Knowles
well
- [54:46]
Francis Durnley
thanks very much Adley. Let's go to our final thoughts now then Dom, over to you First a
- [54:50]
Hayden (Fantasy Fan Fellas Producer)
couple if I may. Just saw an interesting comment this morning. Kemi Badenot, the Conservative leader, the opposition interviewed on the Today program on Radio 4. They were talking in the context of Iran and Britain's seeming unwillingness to preemptively put some military assets in the area to defend British interests and allied interests. And she said, why should Russia believe there is a coalition of the willing if we're not willing to do this? Which I thought was quite a telling comment. I mean, easy to say that when you're in opposition. But yeah, it is an interesting point about what lessons Putin will be taking from this. And just the second one, if I may hat tip to our colleague Steve Rosenberg berg over the BBC who won the Royal Television Society's special award for 2026. Yeah amazing journalism. We we cite him regularly. If you've not checked out his the Special Panorama, an hour long Panorama on the BBC iPlayer called Our man in Moscow well worth a look. But yeah, nice one, Steve.
- [55:43]
Francis Durnley
Yeah, congratulations Steve. Thanks very, very much for all of your reporting. Just a quick shout out to our listeners involved in a new series of plays about the war by Ukrainian and British writers currently showing here in London. London. They reached out and even sent us a program. So thanks very much for that. The plays cover themes from the annexation of Crimea in 2014, the March on Kyiv in 22, and of course the war that follows. And apparently it features some Ukrainian music too. They're running until the 28th of March at the Arcola Theater in Dalston. And of course we'll add a link in the episode description. James, over to you for the final thoughts today.
- [56:17]
James Kilner
Very quickly, Francis, you asked me last week whether Russia will get its way over blocking the Telegram social media system in Russia. There was a protest against the blockage in Novosibirsk. Police turned up. This was at a park which has actually been set aside as a legal space for people to have a protest. Police turn up, detained 15 people and then cordon off the area for tree inspections. So I think we have our answer there. They're definitely going to get their way and they're going to use brute force, as usual. The other thing I want to bring up pulls it back around to the economic side of things. Russian tax officials are going to use AI to scour people's social media feeds in Russia. They're looking to bolster tax receipts and they're looking, quote, this is from their press release, to find discrepancies between expenses and official income, I. E. People hiding their income. That's got one wag on Telegram to say it might be time now to delete selfies with cucumbers off our social media feed. As we've discussed at some Land Frances, cucumbers have become something of a luxury item in Russia and can fix go for about 20 quid a cucumber in parts of Siberia.
- [57:26]
Francis Durnley
I knew we had to get a cucumber update in there somewhere and I'm glad it was at the very end. Thank you very much, James. Thanks, Dom, as ever for your time. We'll be back same time, same place tomorrow, Ukraine. The latest is an original podcast from the Telegraph created by David Knowles. Every episode featuring us in the studio maps and battlefield footage is now available to watch on our YouTube channel. Subscribe@www.YouTube.com Crainethelatest There's a link in the description. You can also sign up to the Ukraine the Latest Newsletter each week we answer your questions, provide recommended reading and give exclusive analysis and behind the scenes insights plus diagrams of the front lines and weaponry to complement our reporting. It's free for everyone including non subscribers. You can find the link to sign up in the episode description. If you appreciate our work, please consider following Ukraine the latest on your preferred podcast app and leave us a review as it helps others find the show. Please also share it with those who may not be aware we exist. You can also also get in touch directly to ask questions or give comments by emailing ukrainepodelegraph.co.uk we continue to read every message. You can also contact us directly on X. You'll find our handles in the description. As ever, we're especially interested to hear where you're listening from around the world. And finally, to support our work and stay on top of all of our Ukraine news, analysis and dispatches from the ground. Please please subscribe to the Telegraph. You can get one month for free, then two months for just one pound at www.telegraph.co.uk Ukraine the latest Ukraine the Latest was Today produced by Phil Atkins. Executive producers are Francis Durnley, Louisa Wells and David Knowles.
- [59:18]
David Knowles
My name is David Knowles. Thank you all for listening.
- [59:21]
Podcast Host / Announcer
Goodbye foreign.
- [59:33]
Hayden (Fantasy Fan Fellas Producer)
Howdy, howdy ho and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [59:41]
David Knowles
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball. But you can call me the Smash Daddy. And we are currently deep diving Brandon
- [59:47]
Hayden (Fantasy Fan Fellas Producer)
Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [59:54]
David Knowles
That's right. Hei hei. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.
- [59:59]
Hayden (Fantasy Fan Fellas Producer)
And along the way we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next.
- [60:04]
David Knowles
Spoiler alert.
- [60:05]
Hayden (Fantasy Fan Fellas Producer)
He'll be wrong.
- [60:06]
David Knowles
News flash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday and you can find Fantasy Fanfellas wherever you get your podcasts. Over 90 of the top 100 US accounting firms trust Bill to handle bill pay processes. Why? Because our tools are built on over a trillion dollars of secure payments. We're not just moving money, we're powering financial workflows for half a million customers. That's a level of expertise you just can't fake. Ready to talk with an expert? Visit bill.comproven to get started and grab a $250 gift card as a thank you. Terms and conditions apply. See Offer page for details.
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