Putin prepares secret rolling conscription & exclusive: the British microchip powering Russia’s missiles

Summary

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Ukraine: The Latest – Putin’s Secret Conscription & British Microchips in Russian Missiles

Podcast: Ukraine: The Latest
Host: The Telegraph
Episode: Putin prepares secret rolling conscription & exclusive: the British microchip powering Russia’s missiles
Date: February 19, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode unpacks three major developments:

• The fallout from peace talks in Geneva and analysis of current diplomatic negotiations.
• An exclusive Telegraph investigation revealing how British-made microchips have ended up in Russian and North Korean missiles used in Ukraine.
• The formation of a new international volunteer air defence unit in Kyiv, open to experienced expats.

Through interviews with experts and frontline contributors, the Telegraph team scrutinizes Russia’s evolving tactics—including secret conscription laws and the exploitation of Western technology. They consider the international political context, including U.S. and European strategy, and examine the practical response on the ground.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Latest Military and Political Updates in Ukraine

[04:08–13:53] Dom Nicholls

• Russian oil depots struck deep within Russia—including Pskov Oblast and Belgorod—causing serious outages (“There are major damages… partial loss of electricity and heat.” — [06:14])
• President Zelenskyy, in a British interview, disclosed “dozens of thousands of Ukrainians had died fighting in the Donbas alone.”
  • “It’s not about the land, it’s about people.” — Zelesnkyy (paraphrased by Dom Nicholls, [07:01])
• Talks in Geneva: Some technical progress on ceasefire monitoring, but little hope on political settlement or security guarantees.
• New Russian drone tactics: “Mothership” drones (fixed-wing) delivering FPV first-person drones remotely operated over Ukrainian mobile networks.
• Ukraine may require passport verification to buy SIM cards, attempting to curb Russian drone operations. These restrictions are controversial and likely unpopular domestically.
  • “Restricting the sale of Ukrainian SIM cards… would be politically unpopular… but might curb an uncontrolled process.” — [09:18]
• Russian conscription laws evolving:
  • New laws for involuntary reserve call-ups.
  • Rolling conscription; reserve deployment abroad without formal mobilization or state of war.
  • Laws making evasion “socially unacceptable”—but with clear coercion behind the rhetoric.

2. Exclusive: British Microchips in Russian Missiles

[13:53–14:28] Dom Nicholls

• Joint investigation between Telegraph and Committee for Freedom in Hong Kong uncovers Hong Kong-based middlemen exporting dual-use Western components to Russia.
• Between 2022 and 2024, nearly 800 shipments worth ~$2.5M ended up in Russia, sometimes reaching North Korean missiles.
• Case study: A UK-manufactured microchip found in a North Korean missile that killed multiple civilians in Kyiv, including a 15-year-old girl’s family.
  • The British manufacturer maintains strict controls and claims shipments stopped post-invasion or products may have been counterfeit. “All our sales contracts now include clauses to specifically prohibit onward… to Russia.” — [13:24]

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3. Diplomacy Breakdown: Geneva Talks & Western Divisions

[14:28–24:57] Francis Dernley & Dom Nicholls

• Zelenskyy’s bluntness: “I don’t need historical shit to end this war and move to diplomacy because it’s just a delay tactic.” — Zelenskyy, quoted by Francis Dernley [14:38]
  • Open frustration about Russia’s parading of propagandists at talks, lack of seriousness.
  • Contrasts between military and political negotiation tracks—technical details progressing, political will lagging.
• U.S. delegation in Kyiv—pressing for harsher sanctions and highlighting internal debate about special envoy Steve Witkoff’s suitability (“…a property developer, is not equipped to handle these talks…” — [18:36])
• Congress hesitancy: Senators critical behind the scenes but wary to publicly oppose President Trump’s approach.
• Western intelligence consensus: Putin believes he is winning and has no incentive to compromise.
  • “He is convinced that even if it takes 18 months to two years to complete his hold on Donbas, each day of fighting… secures him more leverage.” — Western official, cited [21:04]

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4. Western Defence Readiness & Spending Debates

[22:43–25:47] Francis Dernley & Dom Nicholls

• UK’s underfunded military: Open letter from ex-military chiefs decries chronic underfunding, arguing recent spending increases are eaten up by inflation and mandatory pay raises.
  • “The Ministry of Defence is being forced… to make cuts despite the increase.” — [22:57]
• Persistent black hole in defence funding (between £14–28B shortfall). Government officials dodge specifics when pressed.
• Calls for an urgent recalibration of the UK’s and Europe’s defence posture.

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5. Expert Interview: U.S. Diplomat Kurt Volker on Geneva Talks

[25:48–38:49] Interview by Ross Saber

Geneva Talks: Outlook Grim

• “Nothing. I don’t think we’re going to see any movement at all… Russia is still maintaining its maximalist demands.” — Kurt Volker [25:55]
  • Only real pressure—financial or military—could change Russia's behavior.

Russia’s War Economy: Under Stress

• “You have double digit inflation, you have double digit interest rates… declining revenue from oil and gas… [Russia is] dipping into their national wealth funds to continue to both sustain the state and prosecute the war.” — Volker [27:09]
  • European energy purchases are still a critical funding source for Russia.

Western Leverage—And Its Absence

• Tougher sanctions and secondary sanctions, plus a fully committed Western supply of arms (including deep strikes), would pressure Russia to compromise.
  • “We have not done [enough] to create certainty about the supply of arms and ammunition to Ukraine…” — [28:53]

U.S. Policy Under Trump

• “You can’t really talk about a Trump administration. There is President Trump… he is the one making all the decisions.” — Volker [30:14]
  • Trump’s stated hope: settle the conflict quickly, seek a peace prize.
• Improvements: Shift from “support Ukraine as long as it takes” to “end the war”—aligning U.S., Ukraine, and Europe on negotiation points.
• Critique: “He has not put any pressure on Putin at all. And that’s the main reason there’s a war.” — [32:06]

NATO, Europe, and British Defence

• Trump has “gotten European allies to put real money into defense,” making NATO “better balanced and stronger.” But cohesion is damaged by threats and erratic U.S. leadership.
• On British defence: “There has been great under investment in the military itself… I think that people are beginning to wake up to that.” — [36:10]

On Ukraine’s Future and Russia’s Nuclear Posturing

• Outcome: “The only outcome… is that Ukraine is a sovereign, independent European democracy… part of the EU and have security guarantees from NATO members.” — [32:48]
• Russian nukes in Belarus: “It’s messaging, trying to get us… to be alarmed so that we back down. That’s the whole reason this is a topic for discussion.” — [38:21]

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6. Ground-Level Response: International Volunteer Air Defence in Kyiv

[38:57–44:10] Dom Nicholls & John Richardson

• John Richardson (Volunteer Air Defence Reserves unit founder): Launching a new formal unit open to Kyiv-based expats (5+ years), both with and without military experience.
  • “If you’re living, working in or around Kyiv… and you have a temporary resident permit… you can step forward and join the Territorial Defence Force.” — [39:34]
  • Roles range from manning static machine gun positions to mobile teams—two 24-hour shifts per month minimum.
  • Volunteers sign the same contracts as Ukrainians—with flexibility to leave and freedom from combat deployment elsewhere.
  • “Even if it’s just carrying cans of ammunition… you’ll all be making a difference.” — [43:31]

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7. Listener Q&A Highlights

[44:49–47:42]

• Are visitors welcome in Ukraine? Most locals are friendly and appreciative, not resentful of Western visitors.
  • “It’s a very warm and friendly country… you don’t have to dig too deep to find a very thick vein of goodwill.” — John Richardson [45:38]
• NATO’s 1.5%/3.5% GDP spending on infrastructure (e.g., bridges, transport corridors) is debated for defence effectiveness.
• Why was Russia able to access Starlink for so long?
• Should Ukraine consider extending conscription to all adults 18+?
• Are fiber optic drones immune to electronic interference?

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I don’t need historical shit to end this war and move to diplomacy because it’s just a delay tactic.”
  — President Zelenskyy (quoted at [14:38]), expressing exasperation with the Geneva talks' lack of substance

• “We have not done [enough] to create certainty about the supply of arms and ammunition to Ukraine…”
  — Kurt Volker ([28:53]), emphasizing the absence of a decisive Western push

• “He has not put any pressure on Putin at all. And that’s the main reason there’s a war.”
  — Kurt Volker ([32:06]), on Trump’s approach

• “If you’re living, working in or around Kyiv… you can step forward and join the Territorial Defence Force… you’ll all be making a difference.”
  — John Richardson ([39:34], [43:31]), launching the international volunteer air defence effort

• “There is President Trump, and he is the one making all of the decisions… The reality is [the Russians] are not negotiating in good faith at all.” — Kurt Volker ([30:14], [31:11]), on Trump-era U.S. policy and Russian intentions

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Key Timestamps

• 00:00–04:08 — [Intro, announcements skipped]
• 04:08–13:53 — Military & political update (strikes, casualties, Ukraine’s drone/SIM dilemma, Russian secret conscription, UK chip investigation)
• 13:53–14:28 — Details of the Telegraph investigation: British microchips in missiles
• 14:28–24:57 — Diplomatic fallout, U.S. congressional politics, Zelenskyy’s “F bomb,” analysis of talks’ prospects
• 25:48–38:49 — Kurt Volker interview: Geneva talks, Russia’s economy, U.S./NATO policies
• 38:57–44:10 — John Richardson: Air defence volunteer unit in Kyiv—how it works, who can join, why it matters
• 44:49–47:42 — Listener Q&A: Ukraine’s reception to visitors, NATO GDP spending, Starlink, conscription, drone tech
• 47:42–End — Closing messages [ad content skipped]

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Conclusion

This episode delivers hard analysis on the impasses in peace talks, exposes the convoluted global trade that enables Russian missile strikes on Ukrainian civilians, and highlights both high-level diplomatic tensions and local efforts for resilience. Above all, the hosts maintain a pragmatic, often blunt, tone, reflecting both the gravity and urgency of Ukraine’s fight—and the West’s responsibility.

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For further resources, interview links, and ways to support, see the episode’s show notes and The Telegraph’s Ukraine coverage.

Transcript

[David Knowles]

The telegraph.

[Dom Nicholls]

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[John Richardson]

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[Kurt Volker]

Let's get in the tour bus and hit the road.

[Dom Nicholls]

No, not a tour bus.

[Kurt Volker]

It's a regular car we use to

[Dom Nicholls]

deliver and set up customers phones at home or work.

[Kurt Volker]

Are you a groupie on this tour?

[Dom Nicholls]

We deliver and set up phones. It's not a tour.

[Kurt Volker]

Oh, you're definitely a groupie.

[Dom Nicholls]

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[Kurt Volker]

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[Dom Nicholls]

Delivery available for select devices [e-mail] the longer you stay alive, the longer you can enjoy Boost Mobile's unlimited plan with a price that never goes up. So here are some tips. Do not parallel park on a cliff if you want to enjoy an unlimited plan with a price that never goes up. Do not mistake a wasp nest for a pinata if you want to enjoy an unlimited plan with a price that never goes up. Do not microwave a hard boiled egg if you want to enjoy an unlimited plan with the price that never goes up. Stay alive and enjoy Unlimited Wireless for $25 a month. Forever with Boost Mobile. After 30 gigs, customers may experience lower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Mobile unlimited plan. I'm Dom Nicholls and this is Ukraine. The latest. Today, as the world digests what President Zelensky described as difficult negotiations in Geneva, we ask did the talks make any difference? And is there any more road left for Russia to kick the can down? We report an exclusive Telegraph investigation that has shown how British manufactured microelectronics have ended up in missiles used to kill civilians in Ukraine. And we interview the founder of a new volunteer air defence unit seeking members from the expat community of Ukraine. Bravery takes you through the most unimaginable hardships to finally reward you with victory.

[Francis Dernley]

The Russians does not want peace.

[Dom Nicholls]

If I'm president, I will have that

[Kurt Volker]

war settled in one day.

[John Richardson]

24 hours.

[Dom Nicholls]

We are with you. Not just today or tomorrow, but for 100 years.

[Kurt Volker]

On Ukraine, nobody's going to break us.

[Dom Nicholls]

We're strong. We're Ukrainians. It's Thursday the 19th of February, three years and 362 days since the full scale invasion began. And today I'm joined by our executive editor for audio, Francis Dernley, and founder of Ukraine's International Volunteer Air Defence Reserves unit, John Richardson. Before we start, a big announcement from us

[Francis Dernley]

elsewhere. Coverage of the war in Ukraine is

[Dom Nicholls]

slowing down, so we're ramping it up. Why do you stay?

[Francis Dernley]

With every inch of land that Ukraine loses, Russia becomes more of a global problem.

[Dom Nicholls]

The stakes couldn't be higher for Ukraine,

[Francis Dernley]

for democracy in the entire world. Ukraine, the latest is coming to your screens. Award winning analysis.

[Dom Nicholls]

The war he is conducting is brutal, it is illegal and it is genocidal.

[Francis Dernley]

Exclusive interviews. Give them the weapon.

[Dom Nicholls]

Give them the tools. Give them the money.

[Francis Dernley]

And on the ground reporting, there are

[Dom Nicholls]

said to be still bodies of dead Russian soldiers inside this building.

[Francis Dernley]

The beautiful Black Sea port city of Odessa is one of the most famous in Ukraine.

[Dom Nicholls]

So join us for the world's most listened to and trusted podcast on the war in Ukraine.

[David Knowles]

Listen every weekday wherever you get your

[Francis Dernley]

podcasts and on our new YouTube channel, Ukraine the Latest. Subscribe now.

[Dom Nicholls]

From next week, marking the fourth anniversary of the full scale invasion, we're going to be a video podcast that means you'll not only hear us, but you'll see us in the studio. Plus our regular correspondence and guests as they join us from around the world, along with maps, analysis and battlefield footage. Now first, these video episodes will be available exclusively on the Telegraph website and on YouTube. So, and this is the important bit, if you currently listen to us on YouTube via the Telegraph's main channel, you will not automatically receive the new video episodes. To watch them, you will need to subscribe to our new dedicated channel, ucrainethelatest. You'll find a direct link in the description of this episode. And now, this is a big step forward for us. I've already had at least one difficult conversation about makeup and Francis has been told not to wear his migraine inducing suits. But with your support, we'll make it work. So please take a moment now to subscribe to Crainethelatest on YouTube. The link is live. Thank you. Now for the updates. Let's start. In Russia, there have been more strikes inside the country. Last night an oil depot was hit about 400 km west of Moscow in Pskov Oblast. That's the one that borders Estonia, Latvia and Belarus. There were also strikes in Belgorod. So that's north of Kharkiv over the border, about 20K's inside Russia. Those strikes there cause outages in parts of the city. Local oblast governor Vasyslav Gladkov said unfortunately there's been another massive missile attack on energy facilities in, in the city of Belgorod. There are major damages. We can see that there's a partial loss of electricity and heat. So we are currently investigating now into Ukraine and we rarely get a glimpse of Ukrainian casualties for obvious reasons, morale and operational security. Western officials that I speak to say they don't keep a tally on Ukrainian casualties. They are focusing their time, efforts and assets on looking at Russia. But yesterday President Zelensky gave us a little bit of an insight. He was speaking to British broadcaster Piers Morgan. He said dozens of thousands of Ukrainians had died fighting in the Donbass alone. Now obviously the context they were talking about are the peace talks, so called peace talks, territorial concessions, the Donbas, etc. President Zelenskyy said thousands, dozens of thousands of Ukrainians have been killed on this direction defending this part of Ukraine. We have to understand that Donbas is a part of our independence, it's a part of our values. It's not about the land, it's not about the territories, it's about people. Now after those talks in Geneva, he said more progress had been made on the technical discussions about how a potential ceasefire could be monitored. More progress there than on the political issues. He said. When we speak about security guarantees, we mean strong guarantees that the rest of the world or some countries will be ready to respond to if or when Putin returns with his aggression. There'll be more on the Geneva fallout from Francis shortly. Elsewhere now, a relatively new tactic that we've seen in the last, well, weeks really maybe a couple of months or so, the emergence of so called Russian mothership drones. These are generally fixed wing drones, so they're longer range which then drop off. FPV drones, first person view drones. There were reports earlier this year of Russian Gerbera and Molnya fixed wing drones acting as mothership platforms. We've seen in this month as well shahed drones acting in this capacity. The fixed wing drones are thought to be on a pre programmed route, so they're going A to B. But then the FPV drones, the fiber optic controlled drones come off them and once launched they are controlled from Russia. So there's a comms link on the main drone on fixed wing drone. Fixed wing drone that speaks to the FPV via satellite, speaks back to Russia that extends the range of the FPV drones anyway to combat these. Serhiy Beskretsknov, who's the advisor to the new Defence Minister Mykhailo Fedorov, said yesterday that Ukraine is considering requiring passport verification for the purchase of local SIM cards because Russian forces are using the local Ukrainian mobile networks and Ukrainian sims to remotely control the FPV drones. He said the Russians had figured out they could deliver FPV drones on winged UAVs to areas with strong stable mobile coverage and then drop the drones on targets. Now this is was quite controversial. He accepted that restricting the sale of Ukrainian SIM cards, which is one possible solution, would be politically unpopular. In his words. He said it would require changes to national legislation. Plus it won't eliminate the threat entirely, but it could curb the scale of what he called an uncontrolled process of SIM card sales. Now, another potential way to limit the effectiveness of these kind of mothership FPV drone type things is to disable certain data transmission services. But again, Mr. Beskretznov warned that such steps would be painful for the country as well. So some difficult choices coming up I think for Ukraine. No doubt we will hear and report more on this in the future. So last night in Ukraine, eight of 37 Russian drones and possibly one ballistic missile. There's some confused reporting about whether or not a ballistic missile was used. But eight of 37 drones got through air defence last night. Only nine injured. Only nine injured across the country. Very little movement on the ground ground which corresponded with a relatively low Russian daily casualty figure of only 830 so casualties being killed, wounded, missing or taken prisoner, possibly because of heavy snowfalls in the east of the country. Now looking more on the sort of military strategic view. Russia is likely to start involuntary reserve call ups as they struggle to replace losses in Ukraine. So the Russian State Duma adopted a bill in its first reading yesterday that would include things that would outlaw the not at all Orwellian sounde distortion of historical truth. You'll remember that famous line from the book 1984 he who controls the present controls the past. He who controls the past controls the future. I think that's what's going on here. Now equally human rights compliant is the proposed law prohibiting evasion of the duty to defend the fatherland. Now, Russian State Duma Committee on Security and Anti Corruption Deputy Chairperson Anatoly Vybony, he said the bill's primary objective is to shape the Russian public consciousness to think of evading service as socially unacceptable. So that doesn't sound Too bad, does it if it's only socially unacceptable? Clearly it's not. We're going to jail you, confiscate your assets and probably send you to the front anyway if you don't do what we say anyway. That might be one of the reasons for the recent telegram shutdown. We spoke about this yesterday. I said it was perhaps a conspiracy theory too far. That telegram was being shut down because Putin doesn't want society self organizing in the face of these kind of actions. Maybe that theory isn't looking so bonkers now. Now this all builds on a law that was passed last October in Russia that would allow Russia to deploy reservists outside of the country's borders without an official Kremlin declaration or mobilization or a state of war. And there was another bill in November that allows the Russian military to conduct conscription processes all year round, not just the twice a year, which is the normal way of doing things. But yeah, Russia. Quite the socialist utopia they would have us believe. A couple more for me. Earlier today the Swedish government approved its 21st military aid package for Ukraine. This is worth nearly 13 billion Swedish kroner, just over 1 billion euros. So about 400 million euros of that is going to be allocated for the Trident Mark II air defence system. Another well, just over half a billion euro is going to be put towards supporting Ukrainian production of long range missiles and drones. And the rest, about 300 million is going to fund grenade launchers from the Swedish army stockpiles rather than very, very tactical that enlisting the grenade launchers as well as a few artillery shells, spare parts and training. Now then, finally for me, I'll put the link in the episode notes but there's a an exclusive investigation by the Telegraph and the Committee for Freedom in Hong Kong foundation, that's a human rights watchdog that's exposed how middlemen in Hong Kong have shipped thousands of dual use components worth millions of dollars from Western Europe to Russia. Now the investigation says that between 2022 and 2024 there were just under 800 shipments registered firm valued at around 2 and a half million US dollars, nearly 2 million quid that ended up in Russia arriving via a number of different routes. Now microchips manufactured by this company arriving by these securities routes have ended up in North Korean weapons that Russia has used to kill civilians in Ukraine. There is no suggestion that the company that we name in the piece, but I'm not going to name here, had any knowledge of where its components would go. The company claims that these are either remnants of pre war sales or the chips a counterfeit. However, evidence from Russian strikes In Ukraine using KN23 or 24 ballistic missiles, North Korean made missiles have shown the presence of chips manufactured by this UK company. The article then zooms in on one KN23 strike in Kyiv last April that badly injured 15 year old Yana Kudjo and killed her parents and killed her 17 year old brother. Nine other people also killed in that strike. Spokesperson for the company said we have stringent export controls in place and take our responsibilities under the various sanction regimes very seriously. After the invasion in February 2022, we immediately stopped all shipments to Russia. We take our obligations in this area very seriously and we will continue to work with others in the supply chain to ensure their controls are as tight as ours. All of our sales contracts now include clauses to specifically prohibit onward sale or re exporting to Russia. As I said, we'll put the link in the episode notes. You can go and have a look at that fascinating investigation. Now that's it from the military front. Let's have a look at the diplomatic side. Francis Beloved F bomb for reasons that you know some may remember, you've not dropped one for a little while. But Zelensky has very undiplomatic language. What's he been saying?

[Francis Dernley]

Yeah, so we were speaking about this earlier on in the week. The inclusion of Vladimir Medinsky at the talks, a man who loves to parrot historical distortions about Ukraine and his inclusion led many people to comment on the fact that Moscow is not taking these talks seriously. They would not send this individual if they were. And I think it's indicative of the strength of feeling in Kyiv and among the Ukrainian government that President Zelensky posted this this morning. He said I don't need historical shit to end this war and move to diplomacy because it's just a delay tactic. I read no less history books than Putin and I learned a lot. I know more about his country than he knows about Ukraine simply because I've to Russia, to many cities and I knew a lot of people there. He has never been to Ukraine this many times. He was only in big cities. I went to small cities from the northern part to the southern part. Everywhere I know their mentality now. I think the decision to post this is quite interesting. You could say it's a bid to try and win more support within the Ukrainian population when you articulate this anger so publicly. But also it could be an appeal to the kind of language that appeals to President Trump. Although if that is the case, of course it could also backfire as well. This kind of language sometimes does seem to upset the Donald when it comes from the Ukrainians, but less so when it comes from the Russians. I wonder why that might be. Only yesterday, the White House was saying that the war was very unfair, not just for the Russians and Ukrainians who've lost their lives, but also for the American taxpayer who were footing the bill for this war effort before President Trump put a stop to it. Now, Zelenskyy has also posted several other comments regarding the breakdown in talks we covered in detail yesterday. He said, we can see that some groundwork has been done, but for now, the positions differ because the negotiations were not easy. He went on, I think it is good that we had a trilateral meeting in Switzerland. We respect and appreciate the Middle east partners and the ones in other countries, but I think if the war is in Europe, we need to find a place in Europe. There were two groups, a military group and a political group. We are closer to complete negotiations on the military track than on the political one. Why? Because the military guys spoke in a trilateral format about how to develop a monitoring mission for the ceasefire when it is established. When political track opens these possibilities, they discussed the details, technical things and the capabilities of both sides, and first of all, of Americans, because they will play a leading role in the monitoring. There's a difficult discussion about the role of the Europeans. For us, their role is significant. It's great that we have Americans as our partners, but I underline time and again that I think we also need European representatives. Now, that would explain why the French and the British had representatives in the hotel, at least as Joe was talking about yesterday.

[Dom Nicholls]

But fundamentally, Germans there, weren't they? I think the Germans were there.

[Francis Dernley]

There were a few Germans as well.

[Dom Nicholls]

Saw reports of a Germans there.

[Francis Dernley]

So interesting developments, but obviously saying the same as he always does with regard to Europe needing to do more. Now, speaking to Axios, he also stressed that the Ukrainian Republic would reject any peace deal requiring Kyiv to unilaterally withdraw from Donbas. He said, emotionally, people will never forgive this. Never. They will not forgive me. They will not forgive the U.S. and that, of course, tallies with the remarks you were quoting earlier on about the losses that have been suffered to hold on to those territories, the Donbas. Now, as we speak, a delegation of US Senators has arrived in Ukraine, hoping to spur action in Congress about the series of sanctions that they're trying to stoke there meant to economically cripple Moscow. Senator Blumenthal of the bipartisan bill, which is still stuck in Congress he's there at the same time. Interestingly, as the Kyiv Independent reports, they struck a cautious tone when asked whether special envoy Steve Witkoff should remain at the center of negotiations. As the piece says, the remarks place Congress in a delicate position, aware of mounting controversy around the Trump envoy, yet reluctant to directly challenge the president's authority over diplomacy as US Mediated talks with Moscow and Kyiv continue. I think that is a revealing insight into the fear of upsetting the administration even in Congress. Despite what is obvious to many that Witkoff, after all, a property developer, is not equipped to handle these talks in a way that is likely to lead to profound change, that he doesn't have an understanding of the historical sensitivities of the political sensitivities. He confuses parts of Ukraine with others, that he is not the right man for the job. And yet, despite that being obvious to, as I say, most experts, most people following this closely, even in Congress, they can't actually say that publicly.

[Dom Nicholls]

I agree with all that. So what is the mounting controversy? Because, I mean, we've known this from the word go, that this guy's a real estate developer. He sees everything as a land deal. He'd never been to Ukraine, made all sorts of mistakes on the language and the locations and the geography. So what's the mounting criticism that kind of implies that this group of senators is actually going to and is empowered to do something about it? Where I don't, I don't see any indication that Trump is unhappy with the performance of Steve Wyckoff?

[Francis Dernley]

No, I agree with that. I don't think there is any indication of that either. I think this is just an attempt by some who are very strong pro Ukraine advocates in Congress to try and put pressure more on the issue by their presence in Ukraine and to draw attention to perhaps some of the deficiencies in the approaches being adopted by the White House. But as I say, they're pretty reluctant to speak very publicly critically about what Trump is doing on this issue. And that's what, of course, we've seen with Senator Graham as well, who is the co signatory of that bill. He has consistently said pro Trump things, despite it being obvious, again, that the direction of travel at the moment is not working. And we can all speculate as to why exactly that is. I think basically it boils down to fear and the thinking that this is still better than an alternative where Trump just immediately and completely withdraws. I think also many, obviously, just when it comes to the critiques of Steve Witkoff, question his belief about whether Putin is serious about a deal. And he has consistently said he believes that Putin is ready for that. But if you read the New York Times today, they say President Putin believes he is winning. Military intelligence officials from several Western countries have said this and told them in recent days he is convinced that even if it takes 18 months to two years to complete his hold on Donbas, each day of fighting and each night of missiles and drones raining down on energy infrastructure and apartment buildings secure him more leverage. Now, that tallies with what we've been saying now for almost years, really. And yet it seems that that mentality is still not one that has got into the negotiators on the US Side in these trilateral talks. It bears repeating. It's very easy to assume that Putin is seeing the same kind of intelligence that we talk about Western officials seeing on this podcast. It is quite likely when you have dictatorial regimes, history shows time and time again they are seeing different statistics in front of them, statistics that may be inaccurate. And so what can seem like a failing situation to us may seem like a more positive one for a dictator like Putin because of the fear that that kind of system installs.

[Dom Nicholls]

And we saw today that the Dmitriev plan has slightly been revealed. I mean, they clearly know what they're doing. Donald Trump. Shiny, shiny toy. They've dangled, what, $14 trillion potential business deals if we work together. This will all be fine, Donald. Just once you get this pesky Zelensky guy off our backs, blah, blah, blah, all this money can be yours. I mean, flying in the face of all experience that you invest in Russia and you might as well just burn your 50 pound notes to keep warm.

[Francis Dernley]

Yes. As we've been quoting Bill Browder as saying on the pod. One final story, if I may, Dom. At one Closer to home, heightened political row in Britain over defense spending. Sakir Starmer is not being hon honest with the British public over said spending. Former military chiefs have claimed in a damning open letter and I recommend people read it in full. We've got a link in the show. Notes. Retired heads of the army and Navy and an ex head of MI6 have warned the Prime Minister that the armed forces have been hollowed out by years of chronic underfunding. They've said that instead of receiving more money because of Labour's planned increase on defence spending, funding pressures such as pay rises for servicemen and high inflation mean that the Ministry of Defence is being forced instead to make cuts despite the increase. We understand that Rachel Reeves, the current Chancellor of the Exchequer, is locked in talks with the MoD, which is demanding more money to cover the estimated 28 billion pounds shortfall in the budget. So I think that explains some of the timing around this. But more of the same story. We've had defence reviews, we've had very, very punchy words from politicians, and yet still no substantial move in Britain on defence spending. Fundamentally done.

[Dom Nicholls]

Yes, indeed, yes. The old black hole. Every time I ask government ministers of this government, and the last one, about how big they see the black hole, I. E. Over the next 10 years, the plan for defense, over the next 10 years, all the things you want to fund, all the things you have to fund, and the shortfall, Regular public accounts committees, National Audit Office reports say that there's anywhere between sort of 14 and 28 billion pounds gap. So I keep asking government ministers, whenever they announce more money for defense, I say, that's great, you know, how much of that money is going into the black hole? How big do you. Do you see the black hole and how much is going on? New stuff. And they never answer. I mean, they say, well, you know, we don't recognize those figures because the way we would do it, there wouldn't be a black hole and therefore we can do whatever we like with the money. I mean, it's not. That's sort of slightly paraphrasing, but they never actually come up with a figure about how big the black hole is. And therefore, as in a pothole, how much of this money you're going to have to use to fill in that pothole before you can go and build a new road on top of it type thing. So, yeah, color me shocked that the government still haven't quite closed with the defense investment plan, which has been delayed again.

[Francis Dernley]

This letter is 4. 4 pages long. It's a weighty one with lots of granular detail as exactly what the failures have been over many, many years. And so this feels like a more significant intervention than some perhaps we have seen in the last couple of years or so.

[Dom Nicholls]

Let's see where it goes. I have a feeling it will go straight into final 13, but we will see. While at the Munich security conference last weekend, the Telegraph's national security editor, Ross Saber, spoke to Kurt Volker Volcker, an American diplomat who served as George w. Bush's last U.S. ambassador to NATO and later in a volunteer capacity as President Trump's special representative for Ukraine. During Trump's first term, until Mr. Volcker resigned in September 2019, he gives his perspective on how meaningful the talks in Geneva were, among other subjects. Here is their conversation.

[David Knowles]

Can we start off by talking about the fresh round of peace talks this week. What do you expect to come from that?

[Dom Nicholls]

Nothing.

[Kurt Volker]

I don't think we're going to see any movement at all. Because the issue in these talks is that Russia is still maintaining its maximalist demands and sees no reason to change. It, does not feel any pressure. So US Ukrainian and European negotiators have worked out what they believe is a reasonable deal. It's in this 20 point plan. They're very much in alignment and Putin rejects the whole thing. So I do not think we're going to see anything come out of these talks and I don't think we will see anything come out of talks unless Putin feels so much pressure on his state finances and on the military effort that he needs a ceasefire and then we can get a ceasefire. But until then, I don't think these talks are going anywhere.

[David Knowles]

Can we talk a little more about the state of the Russian finances, the economy? There's a difficult year coming up for Russia. That deficit is much larger than had been anticipated by the Russians themselves. Can you give me a little bit of insight into the statistics on the war economy and how it's starting to come to bear at home for us?

[Kurt Volker]

You have double digit inflation, you have double digit interest rates. You have sanctions that have resulted in some shortages, including especially in gasoline, partly by Ukrainian attacks on refineries, partly for imports. You have declining revenue from oil and gas, but still significant but declining revenue from oil and gas. This has left Gazprom in a deficit. Rosneft is now under sanctions. The state budget is in a deficit. So they're dipping into their national wealth funds to pull out resources forces to continue to both sustain the state and prosecute the war on Ukraine. They are going to run out of money if they keep this up.

[David Knowles]

How soon will they run out?

[Kurt Volker]

There are different estimates about that. And it all depends on the decisions that they make about how quickly they burn it and the decisions that we make about whether we continue to give them money, which right now Europe is still buying oil and gas from Russia. Some statistics show Europe has actually given more money to Russia than they have in assistance to Ukraine.

[David Knowles]

So that's a new one on me.

[Kurt Volker]

I didn't. Yeah, I have to find the statistics for you. But there are some articles that have argued that and that's significant culprits there countries, particularly in southern Europe, have not fully gotten rid of Russian oil and gas. And the timeline for Europe to do so is, is 2027. So a long time from now. So there is still money flowing there. And then you have the sanctions avoidance, which is countries that are not part of Europe and the United States that are engaging in trade with Russia, refining Russian oil, reselling it, like India, for example. Europe has replaced some Russian oil imports with, you know, purchases from India. So there's still a lot of money flow flowing to the Kremlin. So if we did the secondary sanctions and Europe fully got out of direct purchases of Russian oil and gas, we would have a bigger impact on Russia's finances and therefore shorten these timelines of when Putin feels the need to end the war. Another thing we have not done is create certainty about the supply of arms and ammunition to Ukraine and about Ukraine's ability to use that, including striking deep inside Russia to take out missile factories, drone factories, airfields platforms, and so forth. So I think if we did the two things, create that greater certainty and lack of restrictions on the military side and tighten up the sanctions and secondary sanctions so that there's not money flowing to the Kremlin, that is going to cause Putin to make some different choices.

[David Knowles]

And. And we heard from the Secretary of State yesterday there has been a bit of a tone shift. Marco Rubio signaled that he now thinks Putin is not serious about negotiating. What does that tell us about Washington's approach, about the Trump administration's approach to brokering a peace deal now?

[Dom Nicholls]

Right.

[Kurt Volker]

So I have to always tell people that you can't really talk about a Trump administration. There is President Trump, and he is the one making all of the decisions and directing where US Policy is going to go. He has Marco Rubio, he has Steve Witkoff, he has Jared Kushner, and he tells them what he wants them to do. President Trump believes, and he just said on Friday, that Putin wants a deal. Marco Rubio said yesterday Putin is not negotiating seriously. That's true. I think President Trump likes to talk up the idea of Putin wanting a deal to see whether he can get Putin to want a deal. But the reality is they're not negotiating in good faith at all. They are continuing the war and using these talks to deflect tougher pressure on Russia.

[David Knowles]

And do you think President Trump is still incentivized to secure a peace deal? Is that a priority for him?

[Kurt Volker]

Yes, it is. I think he cares about it a lot. He doesn't like seeing all the death and destruction. He wants the war to end, and he wants a peace prize at the end of that.

[David Knowles]

And how do you think that will come about? What is he prepared to do to get that peace deal.

[Kurt Volker]

Well, what he's done is actually significant. He's gotten everybody talking about an end to the war. So we're not no longer saying support Ukraine as long as it takes. We're saying we have to end the war. So that's positive. He's done these peace negotiations where the U.S. ukraine and Europe are now very much in alignment. He's done this minerals deal, which is now a US Ukraine Recovery Investment Fund. He's gotten Europe to commit to 5% of GDP for defense spending, which will support security in Europe, including Ukraine. He's got European countries willing to deploy a coalition of the willing deterrence force to Ukraine to deter future Russian attacks. So he has moved a lot of things that are now good positioning for a stable peace at the end of a ceasefire or at the end of a negotiation. The problem is that he has not put any pressure on Putin at all. And that's the main reason there's a war. It's the only reason there's war. War is because Putin wants a war, and we haven't put any pressure on him to stop that. That is the next thing that we must do.

[David Knowles]

And in terms of a time frame, do you see Trump pulling off a peace deal in the next six months? The next 12 months?

[Kurt Volker]

It depends on us. So let me put it this way. The only outcome of this conflict is that Ukraine is a sovereign, independent European democracy that will be part of the EU and have security guarantees from NATO members. That's what's going to happen. Now. We might get there in a few years, or we could get there in six months. And it all depends on how soon we put pressure on Russia to convince them that they need a ceasefire.

[David Knowles]

And when you say we and us, who are you referring to?

[Kurt Volker]

Everybody here at this meeting conference. There's this transatlantic community, NATO members mainly. But the European Union plays a big role as well. And some countries that are not in Europe also play a big role, such as Japan. So we need to collectively put the pressure on Russia. Finances are particularly important and squeeze the military as well, get a ceasefire and then lean in on strengthening Ukraine and deterring future attacks. Attacks.

[David Knowles]

And you mentioned NATO being a key player there. Just how strong is the NATO alliance in the wake of Donald Trump's comments on Greenland?

[Dom Nicholls]

Right.

[Kurt Volker]

So this is very interesting because Donald Trump would argue that NATO was stronger. He would say that he has gotten European allies to put real money into defense, something they were not doing before, to buy more defense articles and create new capabilities. So he'd say, look, NATO is better balanced and stronger than it was before. And on those measures, I think that's right. But a different measure of NATO is the degree of unity of purpose and the cohesion of the alliance. And here, as you say, threatening to steal territory from another NATO ally doesn't build cohesion, it builds distrust.

[David Knowles]

Understatement of the century.

[Kurt Volker]

So he, I think, think doesn't fully appreciate the importance of that unity within NATO. And that's been damaged. I think it can recover. And so hopefully we'll get back to a point where there is greater unity as well as greater capabilities.

[David Knowles]

Do you think that European nation states are now fundamentally rethinking their relationship with the US and their security and defense, defence independence in light of what's happened around?

[Kurt Volker]

They say they are doing that. I don't think they actually are. And I think in their heart of hearts, they know they really don't need to fundamentally rethink that. I think they realize that they've under invested in defence for a long time. They need to invest more. There needs to be greater European capability and they want that to be going partly to European industry as well, not just America industry. So I think they're realizing all of that, but they also know that they don't want a decoupling from the United States and neither does the US from Europe. And we're going to have a rebalanced alliance. It's not us going to zero, it is Europe doing more and us doing

[David Knowles]

a bit less and on Europe doing more. You've talked before about the fact that the UK has depleted its armed forces and hasn't invested enough in the scale of its military. What do you think about the current state of affairs?

[Kurt Volker]

I think that it's very tough for any British government to find the money. There has been great under investment in the military itself, also cuts in diplomacy and other things as well. And there have been demands on the budget, particularly coming out of the Brexit, where you have to adjust and accommodate for changes in the British economy. And that has led to, you know, basically not enough investment in British defence. And I think that people are beginning to wake up to that. The defense review that Lord Robertson did in the UK pointed this out in very stark terms. It is essential that Britain actually reinvest in its own defense system.

[David Knowles]

And what do you think of Keir Starmer's leadership on this and specifically how he's approached the relationship with Donald Trump? Do you think he's managed that in a deft way?

[Kurt Volker]

I know this is not the way it looks to people in the UK I think that Starmer has done a very good job. I think that it is difficult to deal with Donald Trump. The best way to do it is don't criticize, don't make assumptions, don't get emotional, be practical, be proactive, engage. And I think he has done all of that, and I think that that has helped the relationship compared to what could have happened.

[David Knowles]

And can I just ask you briefly about Putin deploying nuclear weapons to Belarus, because that will bring them within.

[Kurt Volker]

That's an interesting thing. First off, the command and control of Russian nuclear weapons remains Russian command and control. So if they're in Russia or if they're a few hundred kilometers further forward in Belarus, doesn't really matter. They're nuclear weapons and they're under Russian command and control, and they're pointed at all of us. So let's not get too alarmed about that. But even there, I'm not 100% convinced that they really have moved nuclear weapons to Belarus and that this is now some kind of new threat for NATO. I think they talk about it, I think they may have exercised it, but I think there's a lot more nuance in this than we really see.

[David Knowles]

Okay, so it's just posturing.

[John Richardson]

Fire.

[Kurt Volker]

It's messaging. It's messaging trying to get us, and this is a very important point, they are trying to, by raising these nuclear issues, talking about moving them around, talking about testing, talking about a new missile type. They raised this in order to get. Get us to be alarmed about the possibility of nuclear conflict so that we back down. That's the whole reason this is a topic for discussion.

[David Knowles]

Okay, interesting. Thank you very much for your time.

[Dom Nicholls]

So I'm delighted now to be joined by the founder of the international volunteer Air Defense Reserves Unit. This is part of the Territorial Defense Forces of Ukraine, John Richardson. You are appealing to expats in Kyiv, I think only at the moment, but possibly roll out wider in due course. But expats living in Kyiv, not just anyone who turns up, they've got to have established ties to Ukraine. We'll come on to that in a moment. But to act as air defenders, we've seen the. The recent attacks in Kyiv and across the country. And so everyone can help in some small way. So what is it? What is this unit? Why is it necessary? And who can join?

[John Richardson]

Hi, Dom. Hi, Francis. Thanks very much for having me on. If you're living, working in or around Kyiv and you have a temporary resident permit as a civilian, or rather with no military experience, if you've been in Ukraine for five years or more, then you can step forward and join the Territorial Defence Force. If you've got combat experience or if you're a veteran and you've been in Ukraine for a few than five years, then you can also step forward for this. What we're looking for is people who've got strong hearts, strong souls and an eye on the situation as it is right now. The air war is not getting any better right now. There is a great need for more manpower and a lot more materiel as well. So what we are doing is really reinforcing a Territorial Defence Force unit and hopefully therefore will be a lot more kinetic and will turn on more flows of materiel support coming into the country.

[Dom Nicholls]

So it's a formal part of Ukraine's mod, albeit attached to the Territorial Defence Forces. So what legal status do the people have that you're seeking to attract and what equipment do you envisage using?

[John Richardson]

We will be formal members of a Territorial Defence Force and we will sign the same contracts as Ukrainians. We'll be bound by the same rules. However, there are certain clause that will not apply to our. The contract, just like with Ukrainian volunteers, can be broken at any time. However, there are no restrictions on our movement in or out of the country and the contract cannot be converted into

[Dom Nicholls]

another military contract not about to be hoikd off.

[John Richardson]

You can't be sent off to the Donbas or anything like that. It's very, very flexible.

[Dom Nicholls]

And what's the model here? Are these people manning sort of 50 cal heavy machine guns on the top of tower blocks or going around in vehicles?

[John Richardson]

It's a mixture of static locations. So as you say, there'll be heavy machine guns on top of certain buildings for point defence. And there are also mobile air defence teams as well, so gun trucks, basically. And yeah, we're looking for a lot more manpower and we're looking for a lot more support. Territorial Defence Force is quite often at the lower end of the food chain when it comes to resupply, etc. So all the Gucci kit goes off to look after sort of strategic places like nuclear power stations, whatever, and they quite often end up with just a few machine guns. So we really do need to up the ante when it comes to supporting the Territorial Defence Force because they are looking after very large portions of many, many cities in Ukraine and training.

[Dom Nicholls]

And what kind of commitment is this? Is this. I'm thinking about the reserves here in the uk. Is this sort of like, you know, one weekend a month, two weeks A year something, or is it every Tuesday or whatever?

[John Richardson]

Yeah, a minimum of two 24 hour duties every month. You can pick and choose when you do this. If you don't have any military experience, then there's a two week course. So that's split into two five day periods where you're taught everything you need to know about doing air defense for Kyiv.

[Dom Nicholls]

And then. And this you launched what, a couple of weeks ago or recently?

[John Richardson]

This has all happened in the last few weeks. I mean, I pitched a proposal on the 4th of July last year, so it's taken a while to get it to where we are at the moment. But yeah, things are really moving now, so it's very encouraging.

[Dom Nicholls]

Good, good. And now you don't. For various reasons, you don't have a website or anything like that. But how do people get in touch if they want to?

[John Richardson]

Well, I'll give you the telephone number and you can put it in the show notes and people can get in touch with me directly on signal. Don't send me an attachment, don't send me a link. We won't be opening any of those things, but just normal written messages.

[Dom Nicholls]

Okay. Right. We will add that to the episode notes. Yeah. And I guess as you say, John, the people you're appealing to are those that have lives in Ukraine, businesses, families. So, you know, they are invested in society. So this is, it's not a favor the expat community is doing for the country. I mean, you're part of this, aren't you?

[John Richardson]

Absolutely. I mean, you know, we're defending the town that we've chosen to live in. Many people have gone there before the main invasion. Many of us went there after the main invasion. But we're stepping up to the plate and trying to do something that a lot of people rely on others to do for them. It takes an element of courage, probably an element of mettle. But if people do get involved, they'll literally be saving lives, protecting the city, protecting Ukraine's future. We're fighting against an enemy here that's trying to destroy democracy and freedom. And we will be contributing a little bit by joining this team.

[Francis Dernley]

John, thanks very much for your time. Do you have a goal in mind of how many people you would want to see?

[John Richardson]

Sign up as many as possible. I mean, as far as I'm concerned, there's no such thing as too much firepower. So as many people who can, as many people who can step forward and make a difference, even if it's just carrying cans of ammunition from one truck to another, you'll all be making a difference. And as I said, people who join this unit will be saving lives and it will be saving buildings etc in Kyiv and it all, it all adds up and it makes a difference.

[Francis Dernley]

So good, so good, so good.

[Dom Nicholls]

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[Dom Nicholls]

Let's turn to the final thoughts. Francis, what do you want to leave us?

[Francis Dernley]

So it's our weekly newsletter, of course, going out tomorrow and just wanted to give a heads up of some of the questions that we've had this week. Thanks as ever to everybody who writes in. So we've got three Australians again this week at the top. So we've got Jason in Australia asking, can I have some thoughts on if locals are happy to see visitors in Ukraine, given the precarious situation at the moment? Great question.

[Dom Nicholls]

Hang on, I answered that one, Jason. So I've answered your question in the newsletter, Jason, but I'd be keen to hear from somebody living in Ukraine. What's your view, John? What do you think of. Well, your view and from Ukrainians, if you're able to offer such a view of people from outside the country, are we viewed as sort of war tourists or would they welcome people from around the world coming and seeing? What?

[John Richardson]

There's a certain element of surprise, I guess, or suspicion in the worst cases. But yeah, I mean, some people come to visit and thinking, why have they left their comfortable existence in the west or whatever country they've come from? But yeah, they're always very, very pleased to see people. It's a very warm and friendly country. You don't have to dig too deep to find a very thick vein of goodwill.

[Dom Nicholls]

Sorry, I butted in.

[Francis Dernley]

No, no, that's right. Next question from Finn in Australia. Isn't forcing European countries to focus 1.5% of GDP on reinforcing bridges and revitalising transport corridors. Still valuable, of course. We've been sort of talking about how sometimes that is an aspect of the 1.5 which might not be seen as being as essential to other technologies, but a great question.

[Dom Nicholls]

No, I don't mean to butt in again, but I answered that one for you. Finn butting in didn't I answered Finn's question as well. I have some very strong views on the 3.5, 1.5. So, Finn, I answered your question as well, that I've been doing all the

[Francis Dernley]

heavy lifting so far. Hang on, we're getting to mine. So, Warren, in Australia, this is the last Australia. Is there an opening to explore why they were allowed, they being Russia, access to Starlink for so long? Was that one of yours as well, Dom? All right, that we see. There you go. Right, that one's for me to answer later then, Steve in Minnesota, at what point does Ukraine have to consider conscription of those 18 and older? And I just.

[Dom Nicholls]

I answered that one as well.

[Francis Dernley]

That was another one of Dom's. Right, the next two are mine. Just on that. By the way, we had an episode on Tuesday, I think it was. It was dedicated to the next generation in Ukraine and we did talk about the issue of conscription. So very much worth listening to that if you missed. Missed it. And then finally, last but certainly not least, from Mr. Thompson in Scotland, who sent this by postcard. Love that. Next up, a carrier pigeon after our pigeon special a couple of weeks ago. To what degree are optic fiber drones immune from electrical interference? Now, I know I've been given that one, Dom, so you can't say that that one's on you as well.

[Dom Nicholls]

Fiber optic drones.

[Francis Dernley]

Yeah.

[John Richardson]

Yeah.

[Dom Nicholls]

No, you take it. Yeah. I'll be keen to hear your.

[Francis Dernley]

Your answer, Francis, but thanks, everyone who writes in.

[Dom Nicholls]

John, as our guest, where would you like to leave our listeners?

[John Richardson]

Just with one final message, really. I've already jumped through a lot of the hoops that I'd be asking other people to go through as well. Get involved if you can do. If you do, you'll be joining several dozen expat volunteers who've already stepped forward and already contributing. If you can't, then just share this message with people who can. Doing so will be almost as useful. As I said, we're trying to raise the PR marketing bar, if you like, as well as be as kinetic as possible. And if you can step forward, then I look forward to standing next to you on a gun line soon. Thank you.

[Dom Nicholls]

Thanks, John. We will put your contact details in the episode notes and we will come and visit you next time we're in Kyiv.

[John Richardson]

Excellent. Look forward to it. Thanks, guys.

[Dom Nicholls]

Ukraine. The latest is an original podcast from the Telegraph created by David Knowles to support our work and stay on top of all of our Ukraine news, analysis and dispatches from the ground around. Please subscribe to the Telegraph. You can get one month free then two months for just one pound at www.telegraph.co.uk Ukraine the latest deploying cutting edge technology, we also release Ukrainian and Russian versions of this podcast. These translations retain our voices and delivery so that it can reach listeners in every region of Ukraine and those parts of Eastern Europe where Russian is still widely spoken. Spoken links to those can be found in the podcast description to this episode. You can also now sign up to the New Ukraine, the latest weekly newsletter. Each week Francis and I answer your questions, provide recommended reading and give exclusive analysis and behind the scenes insights plus maps of the front lines and diagrams of weapons to complement our daily reporting. It's free for everyone including non subscribers. You can find the link to sign sign up in the descriptions for this episode. We regularly have a Ukraine Life blog on our website where you can follow updates as they come in throughout the day, including insights from regular contributors to this podcast. We also do the same for other breaking international stories. If you appreciate our work, please consider following Ukraine the latest on your preferred podcast app and leave us a review as it really helps others find the show. Please also share it with those who may not be aware we exist exist. You can also get in touch directly to ask questions or give comments by emailing ukrainepod telegraph.co.uk we continue to read every message. You can also contact us directly on X. You'll find our handles in the description for this episode. As ever, we're especially interested to hear where you're listening from around the world. Ukraine the latest was Today produced by Rachel Porter. Executive producers are Francis Dern, Louisa Wells and David Knowles. My name is David Knowles. Thank you all for listening. Goodbye.

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