Putin 'running scared' with pared back V-Day parade plans

Summary

Podcast Summary: Ukraine: The Latest

Episode: Putin running scared with pared back V-Day parade plans

Date: May 8, 2026
Host: The Telegraph – David Knowles, with Adelie Pojman Ponte & Dr. Jade McGlynn

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Overview of the Episode

This episode focuses on the Kremlin’s drastically reduced Victory Day parade in Moscow amid escalating fears of Ukrainian strikes deep inside Russia, signs of Putin’s increasing isolation, major drone attacks on Russian infrastructure, and shifting international diplomatic dynamics. The discussion explores both high-level developments—such as ceasefire claims, absent world leaders, and parade security—as well as the realities of occupied Ukrainian territories, Russian disinformation campaigns, and signs of resistance from within. The episode is rich with battlefield updates, geopolitical analysis, commentary on propaganda, and human stories from the war’s front lines.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Pared-Back Victory Day Parade

• Security Fears and Absences
  • Russia’s traditional military spectacle in Red Square is notably scaled-down: no tanks, missiles, or heavy military equipment, just soldiers. (18:18)
  • Moscow reportedly canceled invitations to most foreign leaders; only a handful from unrecognized states and select heads of state (like Belarus’s Lukashenko and Malaysia’s Sultan) are expected. (10:10, 11:14)
  • No foreign journalists or media are accredited for the parade, with the government citing “current operational situation” and terror threats. (17:53)
  • Moscow airports face flight restrictions due to Ukrainian drone strikes, leaving thousands stranded. (06:55)

“It is indeed the shortest list of attendees in history, I believe, which obviously has been dwindling ever since the beginning of the full scale invasion in 2022.” – Adelie, (10:13)

• Putin’s Isolation and Safety Concerns
  • Putin is reportedly not venturing outside bunkers due to safety concerns.
  • “The parade is Russia’s national idea constructed under Putin. It’s become the most important national holiday… a year shorter than the current war.” – David Knowles, summarizing context (18:44)
  • “Putin’s military might is so shattered… his Victory Day show… is a shadow of its former glory.” – Quoting Svetlana Morenets, (19:36)

2. Escalation & Ceasefire Claims

• Reports of a Russian-declared unilateral ceasefire (from May 8–10) proved hollow: Russian forces continued heavy shelling past the stated start. (02:49)
• Ukraine continues to carry out long-range drone and missile strikes, with targets deep inside Russia such as Yaroslavl and Dubna. (03:00)
• Russia’s response has been both defensive and threatening, including State Duma threats to strike with ballistic missiles if Ukrainian attacks persist. (01:48)

3. International Reactions & Diplomatic Shifts

• Slovakia’s Diplomatic Position

  • Slovakia’s PM Fico is in Moscow but not attending the parade. Slovakia seems to be moving toward warmer Ukraine relations, possibly shifting away from a pro-Russian stance in the EU. (12:03)
  • Fico may act as a messenger between Zelensky and Putin.

• Armenia’s Break from Moscow

  • The Armenian PM avoids the parade and states Armenia is not “an ally” in Russia’s war against Ukraine, sparking Russian diplomatic outrage. (13:24)
  • Russia reportedly targeting Armenian elections with interference and disinformation. (14:18)

• EU’s Approach to Moscow

  • The EU is preparing for possible talks with Russia on Ukraine, having secured Zelensky’s blessing, though previous attempts at engagement were rebuffed by the Kremlin. (21:39)

4. Propaganda, Disinformation & Occupied Territories

• TV Propaganda in Occupied Regions

  • Dr. Jade McGlynn shares research on Russian-run TV in occupied Ukraine: narratives are more aggressively anti-Ukrainian than on federal Russian TV, painting Ukrainians as Nazis, the state as fascist, and positioning Russia as a besieged peacemaker. (25:54)
  • Occupied TV channels focus on “normalization,” heavy war coverage, and insist the newly “Russian” populations are grateful for “liberation.” (25:54)
  • Local and federal channels share core myths, but local stations are more aggressive in discouraging resistance and framing Ukrainian forces as demoralized. (29:44)
  • Discussion of disinformation, especially targeting Zelensky; occupied TV frames him as wasting Ukrainian lives, more so than the corruption angle pushed toward Western audiences. (31:21)

• Resistance Activities

  • Continued sabotage: blowing up telecom infrastructure, vehicles, and attacking logistical targets.
  • Hack-and-leak operations revealing lists of collaborators serve as deterrence. (40:55)
  • Evidence that resistance networks now increasingly coordinate actions inside Russia itself. (37:53)

5. Public Sentiment & Internal Russian Changes

• Notable increase in collective Russian anxiety; 47% report concerns about their livelihoods—up 11% YOY (according to Levada Center polling). (20:30)
• Signs of declining Russian public tolerance for a protracted war with no end in sight.

6. Human Stories from the War

• Highlight on underreported issue of surrogacy in Ukraine: economic hardship, displacement, and war drive young women to become surrogates, often for foreign clients. Parliament is considering tighter regulation amid exploitation concerns. (46:05)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Russia’s most important national holiday… It’s also worth noting that the war that it’s commemorating, the ‘Great Patriotic War’, was a year shorter than the current war Russia is waging against Ukraine.” – David Knowles (18:44)
• “How pathetic indeed that [Putin] has essentially been forced to beg for a truce so Ukrainian drones do not spoil his last illusion of success.” – Quoting Svetlana Morenets, Spectator (19:36)
• “There is a collective anxiety. No one can see how this ends.” – Western ambassador to Moscow, via NYT (20:30)
• “The propaganda also focuses on that… a huge amount of attention goes towards the idea that Ukrainian soldiers… are always on the verge of collapse, which they seem to have been according to occupation television for a good four years now.” – Dr. Jade McGlynn (25:54)
• “Much more vitriol [on occupied TV] towards Zelenskyy personally, that he is Nazi, that he is a fascist, that all of the Ukrainian leadership are Nazis and fascists…” – Dr. Jade McGlynn (28:44)
• “When there are assassinations or when things are set on fire, [occupier TV] tries to address it in their standard bullying way: ‘we will find everyone’.” – Dr. Jade McGlynn (34:20)
• “Resistance is happening; the strikes campaign has been ridiculously successful from the Ukrainian perspective.” – Dr. Jade McGlynn (37:53)

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Key Timestamps

• 02:49 – Russian claims of a unilateral ceasefire, continued shelling
• 06:55 – Strikes on Russian territory, airport shutdowns, drone attack impact
• 10:10 – Details about the meagre Victory Day parade guest list
• 13:24 – Armenia’s PM snubs Moscow parade, diplomatic fallout
• 18:18 – No military hardware in Red Square parade: symbolism and implications
• 19:36 – “Putin’s military might… is a shadow of former glory”—quotation from The Spectator
• 20:30 – Russian anxiety, poll data, and shifting public mood
• 25:47 – Dr. Jade McGlynn begins deep dive on TV propaganda in occupied areas
• 31:21 – Fake narratives about Zelensky, disinformation compared West/occupied TV
• 34:20 – Resistance narratives on occupation TV: show arrests and deterrence
• 37:53 – Resistance update: sabotage and operations, inside Russia and territories
• 46:05 – Surrogacy crisis and underreported social impacts of war

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Final Thoughts and Further Reading

• Ukrainian government is simplifying the residency process for foreign nationals fighting for Ukraine. (45:17)
• BBC article on surrogacy and war’s indirect impacts—recommended by Adelie. (46:05)
• Listeners invited to share feedback on the podcast and attend public events.

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Tone & Style

The episode maintains its hallmark blend of wit, deep expertise, and frank realism. There are moments of jest (“The tanks are busy right now”), insightful linguistic and historical asides (brief digression into French phrases and Balzac), and sharp critique of Russian propaganda and political theater.

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Conclusion

This episode underscores Putin’s growing vulnerability—symbolized by a subdued Victory Day parade—amid Ukraine’s resilient long-range strikes and the unfolding drama of Russia’s isolation. The team blends military, political, and social analysis with sobering human stories and expert commentary from the ground. For listeners seeking nuanced insights into the war in Ukraine, the cracks in Russian messaging, and the lived experience under occupation, this episode is essential.

Transcript

[Adelie]

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[David Knowles]

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[David Knowles]

I'm Dom Nicholls and this is Ukraine. The latest today, as President Zelenskyy says he doesn't recommend that foreign representatives attend tomorrow's Mayday parade in Moscow. We report on the Kremlin's cool and measured response to the threat of Ukrainian strikes, with Russian State Duma deputies threatening the use of Oreshnik intermediate range ballistic missiles against Kyiv, whilst for reasons known only to them, warning that these statements are Russia's last warning to Brussels and as the AZOV Corps say, they have returned to occupied Mariupol, albeit using strike drones. Somewhat fittingly, we have our regular update of resistance activity in the occupied areas. Bravery takes you through the most unimaginable hardships to finally reward you with victory.

[Adelie]

The Russia does not want peace.

[Dr. Jade McGlynn]

If I'm president, I will have that war settled in one day.

[David Knowles]

24 hours. We are with you. Not just today or tomorrow, but for 100 years. Nobody's going to break us. We're Strong. We're Ukrainians. It's Friday 8th May, 4 years and 73 days since the full scale invasion began. And today I'm joined by my co host Adli Pojman Ponte and Dr. Jade McGlynn of King's College, London. There is confusion today about whether or not Moscow has imposed and recognized a unilateral ceasefire. The Russian Defence Ministry said yesterday a ceasefire would be in place from 0000am on May 8th, that is first thing Friday morning through to May 10th. During this period they said all Russian forces engaged in the special military operation will halt hostilities and Russian military actions against Ukrainian deployment sites and military industrial facilities deep within Ukraine will be suspended. They then issued all their usual threats about what they'd do if Ukraine ignored their humanitarian gesture and then promptly carried on shooting past midnight last night and into today with more than 140 strikes on Ukrainian frontline positions recorded by 7am local time. More on this from Adelaide shortly. Anyway. Overnight, Ukraine launched more long range drone and missile strikes against Russia. The oil facilities at Yaroslavl were hit. That's more than 700 kilometers inside Russia. Russia President Zelensky, who's been visiting the 67th separate mechanized brigade at the front line today very clearly pointing out the difference between his trips to the front lines with Putin reportedly fearing for his safety if he leaves his bunkers, thanked the armed forces for this manifestation of justice, saying Ukraine's long range sanctions continue in response to Russian strikes on our cities and villages. Russia must choose genuine peace and only strong pressure on will ensure that. Explosions were also reported in Dubna in Moscow region. That's about 120 km north of Red Square where tomorrow's parade is going to take place. Dubna houses the Joint Institute for Nuclear Research. And there were more blasts in Rostov on Don where Ukraine's military also reportedly carried out an attack on the city's industrial area. Now go 1000 km northeast of Moscow and you get to Perm Krai. The governor there, Dmitry Makinin, said the city of Perm has cancelled its victory day parade tomorrow to ensure the safety of residents and not to distract law enforcement agencies from carrying out tasks to protect their fellow citizens. And Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobianin said that Ukraine had launched dozens of drones towards the Russian capital, adding that 26 had been shot down mathematically implying that some had got through. He didn't offer any information on that. But temporary flight restrictions were introduced at Moscow's Vinikovo and Domodidovo airport again. Now speaking of Russians stranded in airports. The Moscow Times is reported today that Russia is suspending all flights in the south of the country until May 12 following a drone strike on a control center. They say air traffic restrictions will be imposed in the southern regions following a drone strike on the Rostov on Don air traffic control center, which coordinates up to 2,000 civilian flights daily. The restrictions will also affect transit flights traveling through the restricted area to other countries. The that typically number an additional 1,000 flights. A total of 13 airports have been suspended and according to the association of tour operators of Russia, more than 80 flights have been delayed or cancelled so far, leaving at least 14,000 passengers stranded in total. Russia's Defense Ministry claimed that its air defences had shot down 264 Ukrainian drones overnight across 15 Russian regions, including Moscow oblast. Social media footage purportedly shows one Russian air defense missile malfunctioning and hitting Rostov shortly after launch. Now all this comes after a strike early yesterday in Dagestan where Ukrainian defence forces reportedly struck the Russian naval base in Kaspisk on the Caspian Sea closer to Tehran than Kyiv, hitting another Project 2 to 800 Karakurt missile ship, the kind of ships capable of launching Kalibr cruise missiles now into Ukraine. And 56 of 67 Russian drones got through air defense yesterday. But there's been no great move on the ground. There's been some suggestion Russia has been trying to take ground ahead of the May day parade, but whether this was a real effort for the parade or just the tail end of the failed spring offensive is hard to tell. Russian efforts to get back into Kupyansk in the northeast continue and continue to be unsuccessful. A Ukrainian brigade operating in the area said yesterday that Ukrainian forces had repelled a Russian Mechanized assault destroying one armored vehicle and 12 all terrain vehicles. Then a little further south in the Donbass, Ukrainian brigades there report movement in the vicinity of Lyman has been made more difficult in recent days due to the increased tempo of Russian drone activity. There are suggestions that Moscow has prioritized this area and maybe pushed specialist elements in recently from the Rubicon or the Rubicon center for advanced unmanned technologies to give its official title. It's had no significant effect. The Institute for the study of War, the U. S based think tank, citing a Ukrainian company commander, says that Russian forces have not changed their tactics but have reduced the frequency and intensity of infiltrations due to their low success rate of late or at all, I might add. The company commander said the line of contact has not moved more than a kilometer in either direction in the past three years, adding that Russian forces now prefer to use MINE equipped ground drones in their attacks alongside heavy bomber aerial drones now still in Ukraine. And the Azov Corps has said it has returned to Russian occupied Mariupol for now, they add through reconnaissance strike systems. In a social media post, they say Azov pilots have been patrolling roads up to 160km behind the lines, including around Mariupol, striking Russian military targets. They say they're establishing a sanitary zone for Russian logistics and that the strike depth will increase. AZOV is already patrolling its home city of Mariupol, they say from the skies for now. But more is coming. Finally for me. Russia's UN Ambassador Vasily Nabenzia left a diplomatic beer tasting event at the United nations early yesterday after seeing a Lviv craft beer label. The beer named Silja, fashioned here by Ukraine's ambassadors to the United Nations, Andrei Melnik, features a red silhouette of the Kremlin with its towers crumbling above, which flies the Ukrainian blue and yellow flag made by the Pravda Buri in Lviv. That's where Jack and I visited last week for important journalism reasons. Apparently Mr. Nabenzia saw the label and then walked out of the event. Now then, Adley, the attendees for tomorrow's parade is, to put it mildly, not exactly a listers. Among the nine expected guests are two leaders of the unrecognized quasi states of Khazia and South Ossetia, three representatives from the Republika Srpska, that's an entity within Bosnia, the scene of my first accidental invasion. But we don't need to talk about that now and then. Among the actual heads of state, there's only the Sultan of Malaysia, the President of Lao, and Alexander Lukashenko. As expected, Belarus. Slovakia's Robert Fico is expected to be in Moscow. I see. I think Germany has given overflight permissions for him to get there, but he's not expected to attend the parade, I think. Have you seen that? Is that correct?

[Adelie]

Yeah, that's correct. Accidental invasion.

[David Knowles]

We haven't got time to go into it.

[Adelie]

Okay, we'll need to hear that story later. But yes, you're right, it is indeed the shortest list of attendees in history, I believe, which obviously has been dwindling ever since the beginning of the full scale invasion in 2022. Like we would say in French. Interestingly, the Kremlin aide, Yuri Ushakov. Don't make that face when I speak French.

[David Knowles]

What does that mean?

[Adelie]

So literally it means. It's a bit odd. It's very old fashioned. It means the skin of Chagrin. Right, which chagrin is also a word in French. It comes from a novel by Balzac with the same title, La Pot Chagrin, where a talisman is made of the skin of a dead donkey. That's the chagrin. And you can make wishes and it will do your wishes, but every time you make a wish, it becomes smaller.

[David Knowles]

Right.

[Adelie]

So you only have a limited number of wishes. And I will leave you to read Balzac over the weekend and feedback on Monday.

[David Knowles]

Okay.

[Adelie]

But it's become a normal phrase in French to mean something that is dwindling slowly but surely.

[David Knowles]

Okay, so here you go.

[Adelie]

That's your linguistic lesson of the day. Back to Moscow. So here's what's interesting. The Kremlin aide Yuri Ushakov has claimed that Russia deliberately did not invite foreign leaders this time. So make of that what you will. Zelenskyy has told foreign representatives, as you said earlier in your report, that it doesn't recommend that they attend the parade tomorrow. And that's because Russia has threatened retaliation if its unilateral ceasef was violated. As you said, it's all very murky. Where is the ceasefire? Where did it start? Did it not unclear?

[David Knowles]

Well, it didn't. I think it's pretty clear there is no ceasefire. Russia wants to have a ceasefire on its terms only. Zelensky said, well, you know, surely human life is more valuable than any parade. So let's have a longer ceasefire. Let's have it starting from now. He said a couple of days ago. And Russia went, no, yeah, that was it.

[Adelie]

Quite right. As we were saying yesterday, and as you've just said for context, if we look at other truces and ceasefires, the Orthodox Easter truce in April, Russia violated it over 10,000 times in just 32 hours. So, you know, just to put things into a little bit perspective, but back to FICO and Slovakia. So, as you said, he will be in Moscow, not going to the parade. But what's interesting here is that, as we've reported on this podcast many, many, many times, Slovakia is one of the few European countries with the closest ties to Russia, has, up until this week, really very strained ties with Ukraine, notably over the Druzhba pipeline. Now, as we reported yesterday, it seems that that relationship with Ukraine is thawing a little bit, and that FICO does not seem to be wanting to take over from Hungary's former Prime Minister Orban, in voting against Ukraine in the European Union and pro Russia. It seems like he's not really going that way. And in that context, Slovakia's Deputy foreign minister said that FICO may use his visit as an opportun to pass along messages from Zelensky to Putin. So I'm not really sure how much the relationship between Slovakia and Ukraine has thawed for feet. So to be the go between between Ukraine.

[David Knowles]

Got a feeling Zelensky might pass along his own message to Putin tomorrow.

[Adelie]

Yeah, I'm sure he has other ways of doing that as well. Another foreign leader who will be skipping the parade is the Armenian Prime Minister, Nicole Pashinyan. And that is also interesting because he visited Russia at the beginning of April, April 1st. He met with Putin and. And yet he told reporters yesterday that his country is not an ally. That's a quote in Russia's war against Ukraine. And he also confirmed that he would be skipping the parade. And something else happened yesterday in relation to Armenia. The Armenian ambassador to Moscow was summoned by Russia's Foreign Ministry to express outrage over Zelenskyy's recent visit to Yerevan. So Zelenskyy was in Yerevan on May 4th. That's a few days ago for the European Political Community Summit. It was the first time that a Ukrainian President Armenia in 24 years. But that caused outrage. I'm afraid that was enough.

[David Knowles]

That was enough to do it. Fair enough. God, they're so thick skinned.

[Adelie]

Yeah. It's also interesting because on June 7, a few weeks from now, Armenia will be holding parliamentary elections. And as we mentioned yesterday with our guest Stephanie Baker, she's just published a long investigation into Russian disinformation. I urge you to go back to yesterday's episode and listen, if you haven't. Armenia is the latest target of Russia's election interference and disinformation campaign.

[David Knowles]

Yeah, James Kilner's great on this. We've had him on. We need to speak more to get the Kilner back. Get the Kilner back. Need to speak to him more as we run up to the. The Armenian election. Because it is. It just speaks of those. Another one of those stories. It just speaks of the deeper currents that we might not see with the crazy hectic pace of news these days.

[Adelie]

Absolutely. And also because Pashinian is not doing very well in the polls ahead of the elections right now it's about barely 30% of the voters that have his back. There's a lot of people who are undecided. But there's also a Russian party who could be making headways in recent weeks and in the election over the general frustration with Pashinian. So that's kind of the general context. Obviously the Disinformation is very much playing into that as well. I'm actually linking to an article from the Carnegie Endowment's Russian Eurasia Institute on that, specifically on the Armenian parliamentary election and the disinformation coming from Russia. So go and check that out if you want to read more about it.

[David Knowles]

That'd be why, I guess, the EU put such a big effort into getting their arms around Pashinyan earlier this week.

[Adelie]

Yeah, absolutely.

[David Knowles]

Do you see that extraordinary footage when. When he said goodbye to Macron, the steps of Macron's plane. I mean, they were hugging each other for about two minutes.

[Dr. Jade McGlynn]

Yeah.

[Adelie]

A very long time.

[David Knowles]

Macron bounded up the steps like the, you know, jaunty little rabbit that he is as la pau in French. And then Macron turns around and he sort of does this. He blows a kiss and does all this to push him. Who then did this kind of heart thing. Back at you. Back at you, big guy.

[Adelie]

Does he do. Does he do the Boomer heart or does the Gen X heart? Is that how they do it?

[David Knowles]

The kids now have no idea. What are you talking about? Oh, geez.

[Adelie]

Apparently, the youth makes hearts differently these days. Like this.

[David Knowles]

Really?

[Adelie]

Yeah.

[David Knowles]

Is that so? They can immediately flip to that if there's any oldies nearby. That'd be my experience of the youth.

[Adelie]

Ask some of the youngsters around you for that. I'm afraid of London age. No. But also, France has quite strong ties to Armenian for a long time because there's a huge Armenian community and diaspora in France. France was one of the very first countries to recognize the Armenian genocide, I believe in the 90s or the early 2000s. I would have to double check that. So, I mean, the ties between France and Armenia are quite strong, and there's a lot at stake there. I'm not surprised. Anyways, back to the parade tomorrow. Another thing worth noting is that Der Spiegel reports that Moscow has also revoked the accreditation of foreign journalists. No foreign journalists covering the parade because of the, I quote, current operational situation. The Russian government has warned of a terrorist threat. Bear in mind, terrorist. That's an important word. And an important word to frame what's going on. It will come back. They've cited additional security measures to protect President Vladimir Putin. So we'll have to see on Monday what exactly is going on. But interesting, no foreign media at the parade. And a couple of days ago, as we've talked about, the Russian Foreign Ministry said that foreign embassies in Kiev should withdraw personnel in case of a potential retaliatory strike. So we've talked about that. What's interesting is the language used coming from Moscow because just like for the foreign journalist, they characterized a potential Ukrainian strike as the implementation of criminal terrorist plans. Again, that language as usual, when characterizing what Ukraine could or could not do tomorrow. So far, the foreign embassies in Kyiv have shown no indication of leaving, and the European Commission has even confirmed that they would maintain their presence over the weekend. So I don't think it's carrying a lot of weight. So what is the parade going to look like? As we talked about yesterday, no big weapons, no tanks. That's my technical language for you. The Russian government said they are busy right now. That's a quote.

[David Knowles]

Busy.

[Adelie]

So busy.

[David Knowles]

Right. Okay. Even the T34 that hasn't been seen since the Second World War, that normally opens the parade, the little T34 that comes scuttling through, that's busy as well. Is it? Fair enough. Okay.

[Adelie]

Maybe they're down to that even on the battlefield.

[David Knowles]

Well, they're taking T55s out of museums, so why not the T34?

[Adelie]

Okay, you've lost me, though. Dominant. No more. No more tank number. You're confusing me with Hamish.

[David Knowles]

I could never confuse you with Hamish. Don't worry.

[Adelie]

But, yeah, the tanks are busy right now, so they're more needed on the battlefield than the Red Square, so there will be only soldiers. And it's a rare show of weakness coming from Moscow. As Stephen Rosenberg from the BBC puts it, the parade is the Russia's national idea that was constructed under Putin. It's become Russia's most important national holiday in the last 20 years. And it's also worth noting that the war that it's commemorating, the, quote, Great Patriotic War, the Second World War, and the victory of the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany, well, it was a year shorter than the current war that Russia is waging against Ukraine. So, you know, it's good to put these things into perspective, I think, and to remind oneself of World War II, which has such important place in our collective memory and the way we think about big conflicts like that. Just to put that into perspective with what has been going on on in Ukraine for the last four years. A couple more insights on the parade. One is from our friend Svetlana Morenets at the Spectator. Here's what she Putin's military might is now so shattered by the fifth year of war that his Victory Day show, once a symbol of Russia's global power, is a shadow of its former glory. It will proceed without heavy military equipment, missile system or Russian troops for the first time in two decades as they continue to be wasted on the Ukrainian frontline. How pathetic indeed that he has essentially been forced to beg for a truce so that Ukrainian drones do not spoil his last illusion of success. I thought she put it very well. And a last interesting point about the parade tomorrow, an interesting insight into the Russian psyche from our colleagues at the New York Times. They quote a Western ambassador to Moscow who speaks on condition of anonymity, and he says he sensed a shift in Russians willingness to put up with the war. Quote, there is a collective anxiety. No one can see how this ends. They also cite an independent pollster in Russia, which I thought was interesting, the Levada center, saying that 47% of Russians expressed anxiety in April about their lives. That's up 11 percentage points from a year ago. So, yeah, quite a notable change. A final few items for me on the diplomatic side of things. The Financial Time reports today that the EU is preparing for talks with Putin that was announced by Antonio Costa, the European Council president, who is not often very vocal on Ukraine. As I think you've pointed out many times on this podcast, Dom, he said he believed there was, quote, potential for the EU to negotiate with Putin and that the bloc had the backing of Zelensky to do so. It's interesting because the EU has for a long time opposed any discussions or decisions about Ukraine without Kyiv's involvement. So it seems like they've got the go ahead from Zelensky. There was a summit last month in Cyprus of EU leaders, and Zelensky invited us, the eu, to be prepared to contribute positively for negotiation. So we'll have to see what that leads to. Costa has also said that Brussels originally had avoided to disturb the process led by President Trump. But also, as we've mentioned before, the EU is also wanting a seat at the table and being part of these negotiations, not to be completely sidelined. It's not the first time in recent months that the EU or EU countries start bringing up the possibility of talking directly to Russia and reopening conversations in order to lead more powerfully some of the talks. It's not been very successful in recent months. France tried that without any success. I think the latest efforts came from the National Security adviser Emmanuel Bohn, and the adviser Bertrand Buschwalter, who visited Moscow in February saying that Europe deserved a seat at the negotiating table. However, their offer was bluntly rejected by the Kremlin, saying that Ukraine just needs to take one serious step so that combat actions, seas and serious discussions can open up for serious discussion. Of the chances of a long term settlement. I assume that's giving up the territory, as they've been saying repeatedly. So no real advance there.

[David Knowles]

When was that visit?

[Adelie]

I think in February.

[David Knowles]

February. So just before or around the time of U. S. Iran, Israel.

[Adelie]

Yep.

[David Knowles]

So before Donald Trump's total distraction. So I wonder if Putin made those comments or the Kremlin or whatever mouthpiece did, not anticipating or not not knowing the state of play now, which is the US Are just are in no position or don't seem inclined at all to, to lean on Ukraine as Putin would want. So I wonder if there is a chance here if Russia's thinking, you know what, we might at least have a chat, deploy the Maloney, that's what I say. Get Georgia Maloney out there. I think she could, I think she could unsettle Putin. I reckon should be my bet. That's where I was. If you're listening, Ms. Maloney, I'm backing you all the way. I reckon you're the person to go represent Europe.

[Adelie]

I'm going to Brussels on Monday. Do you want me to pass on the message? Yeah, shall I just. I'll come to that in a moment. But before we go to Brussels and my upcoming trip, just a word on Rustam Umarov, Kyiv's chief negotiator, who was in Miami yesterday for talks with Steve Witkoff. Zelenskyy said on X that the negotiation has been substantive. They focused on humanitarian issues, prisoner exchanges between Kyiv and Moscow and details of the Washington backed security guarantees for Ukraine. They also announced that US Envoys would be visiting Ukraine in late spring, early summer. I see you raise an eyebrow there, which is very notable considering that neither Witkoff nor Jared Kushner have visited Ukraine in any official capacity since Trump has taken office. They have, however, been to Russia eight times, so we'll have to see if, you know, those plans do materialize. And finally, very short last note from me. The European Union foreign ministers are expected to adopt new sanctions on Monday related to the deportation of Ukrainian children to Russia. The at least 20,000 children that have been missing since the beginning of the invasion, as we know here, probably way, way more than that. At least 35,000 children, if not in the hundred of thousand. That's an unofficial number. But from the people we've been speaking to here, there's a meeting of the International Coalition for the Return of Ukrainian Children that's on the diary for Monday afternoon. I will be in Brussels covering it, so you will hear about it firsthand either on Tuesday or Wednesday on the podcast.

[David Knowles]

Thanks, Dudley. Now time for our Regular update from Dr. J. McGlynn of King's College London about resistance activity in the occupied areas. Last time we spoke to Jade, two weeks ago, I think she was in Izium in the northeast of the country on a very cold and windy bridge, I seem to remember. Yeah, it didn't look. Didn't look a parallel office. How was she when you spoke to her?

[Adelie]

She was in the library where when she's not out on the fields, she's calling us from. So, you know, nothing that looked too uncomfortable this morning.

[David Knowles]

Right, good. Okay, great. Well, let's have a look at your conversation.

[Adelie]

Hi Jade, welcome back to the show. It's good to have you back.

[Dr. Jade McGlynn]

Thank you. Thanks for having me as always.

[Adelie]

So today I think you want to chat about TV in the occupied territory, something that you've been monitoring for some months now.

[Dr. Jade McGlynn]

Yes. And also I should say a big thanks to BBC monitoring who helped me realize I already had institutional access to BBC monitoring and then allowed me to check some of the data that we had. So big thank you to Bryn and the business team as well. Separately there. Yeah. So we've just been monitoring our telegram channels but interested in seeing what the television focused on and also comparing it to how Russian Federation television sort of focuses on the topic of what they call the new region. So the occupied territories, which in general is just nothing to see here. New regions are just really, really happy that they're part of Russia. And this has always been as it is clearly in the occupied territories there's a slightly different approach. I would say it's much more aggressive in terms of the propaganda. Uganda, there's a lot more focus on the war. Obviously they call it the special military operation. On occupied television channels. There's a huge amount of occupation normalization and the language is pretty much inverted. So talking about the liberation of Slovians, talking about the occupation of Ukraine by Ukraine and you know, a huge amount of attention goes towards the idea that Ukrainian soldiers in particular are demoralized, that they're always on the verge of collapse, which they seem to have been according to occupation television for good, good four years now. But that doesn't, that doesn't stop them from kind of making this argument naturally. Quite given that this is such an identity based war in the sense that, you know, this is about Russia being able to impose its ideology that Ukraine does not exist. There are no, you know, Ukrainians, they're just misled or manipulated by the West. A lot of what we see in the occupied territories. Is Russia trying to enforce that ideology and to make it reality by destroying everything that's Ukrainian, by insisting that everybody is Russian? And so clearly the propaganda also focuses on that most recently. So, for example, in the last week or so, there's also been a notable. They're never pro Western. It should be. I don't think listeners will be surprised here, but they've been really going for President Trump. So many in the US consider Trump to be out of his mind. A lot of criticism of Iran, using Iran's response or resistance to the US And Israel led attacks as an example of how to do resistance to the west more broadly. So there's some interesting, less careful than you might see on perhaps federal Russian television channels in terms of the approach to how they describe President Trump, who they assume perhaps incorrectly, but is probably not watching, you know, occupied Donetsk local television. So the other thing I suppose I would stress is just how much vitriol there is towards Zelensky personally, that he is a Nazi, that he's a fascist, that all of the Ukrainian leadership are Nazis and fascists, that this is just like World War II, especially now in the run up to Victory Day, which is of course tomorrow. And this idea, you know, like we're pushing back the neo Nazis kilometer by kilometer, the Kyiv regime, all of these elements. And of course, in terms of any potential ceasefires and so forth, it's always, you know, Russia is willing, Russia is a peacemaker, Russia is here to defend Russians and who live in Eastern Ukraine. And if only Ukraine was less neo Nazi and fascistic and hell bent on destroying everybody in their country, they wouldn't come to agree with that. So it's pretty much an inversion of what I would describe as the reality. But obviously that's my interpretation that's so interesting.

[Adelie]

And I imagine people in the occupied territories have. So there's local TV and there's. And then there's federal tv. Do they have access to both? And are they able to see the difference in the treatment that what they may be having access to and being broadcast in terms of what goes on on federal TV and in terms of language, for example?

[Dr. Jade McGlynn]

Yes, I mean, I would say that in general, I often differentiate between narratives and kind of myths. So what you will see are different narratives in terms of the way the myth, for example, if we say Russia is a besieged fortress that the west is constantly trying to destroy, that's a myth. And there are various narratives that are part of that myth. So I'd say the myths are actually pretty standard between the federal and let's say, the occupied television channels. It's perhaps just the narratives or the narrative framing that differs. I think in general, I'd have to go and double check my figures. But in general, people do prefer to follow local news, and that's something that we see in Russia as well. But again, it's quite difficult with viewing figures sometimes in the occupied territories. But that is just perhaps something to flag that's come up. Especially people who want to avoid politics tend to focus on local news. And a lot of people in the occupied territories for very same reasons, want to avoid politics.

[Adelie]

It's really interesting because yesterday in the studio we had a guest from Bloomberg, investigative journalist Stephanie Baker, and she just published a big piece about Russian disinformation and the sort of industrial scale and the fake news and the fake stories that they propagate via social media. And a lot of them, I think 40% of what she's been working on, she's been looking at for the past year, target Zelensky propagating completely fake stories about either his wife, money spending, buying luxury villas. Also some ties to, like the Epstein files, which are again, completely false. Is that the same stories that you see on Occupy Television, then?

[Dr. Jade McGlynn]

Those stories do come up, but I would say it's much more the idea of Zelensky wasting lives or the idea of repression in Ukraine. It's a bit more bloodthirsty than the narratives, I suppose, that are designed for the West. I mean, the focus on Zelenskyy in some ways is also a projection course, you know, the importance of Putin within the Russian system because clearly Zelensky just. He's important as a symbol, but he just doesn't have quite that, even during wartime. You know, I don't think many leaders, apart from in North Korea, have the same importance as Putin in their political system. Certainly Keir Starmer doesn't, for example, in the uk. But yes, I mean, those. The idea of corruption and these elements come up. But I would say it's a lot of the focus is on the idea of Zelensky and the Kyiv regime, as they call it. Obviously the key of government being occupiers and wasting people's life. Because of course, many people in the occupied territories do not, even if they might be accustomed now to. To the occupation or have come to terms of it, they don't hate Ukrainians because even if perhaps now some of them, it's very impossible to know how they might identify. So they use the people in the occupied territories fondness for their Fellow Ukrainians, against the Ukrainian government. Right, I see. I see. And then use that to discredit Zelenskyy, as you know, why does he keep on fighting? And why is he forcing everybody into this?

[Adelie]

Another thing I'm intrigued about is obviously in your segment, you tell us every other week about the resistance, updates coming from the occupied territories and all of these actions. Is that something occupied tv, local occupied tv, talks about? Do they report on it? Is there a blackout? And what is the language around it?

[Dr. Jade McGlynn]

So, yes, they do report on it, but often not in the sense obvious, certainly not in the sense that we sort of report on it or discuss it. So often what will happen is there will be kind of these almost staged or show arrests that are clearly set up for the cameras, often if somebody has already been arrested months before, and it will be, for example, oh, this person was giving coordinates or this person was talking to the sbu. And it's all very clearly for show. So it's. There's different ways that you can tell that it's for show and that features. It certainly used to feature quite prominently on Occupy television, maybe less prominently now, but certainly still there. And it's often essentially about trying to instill fear in people and trying to stop the resistance, because it's obvious that resistance is happening. I mean, particularly with the middle strikes campaign that's been, you know, ridiculously successful from the Ukrainian perspective over the last couple of months, especially, or of since the start of the year. Somebody ascending coordinates. They can see, everybody can see. So you have to address it. When there are assassinations or when things are set on fire, you have to address it. And they tried to address it in their standard bullying way of, well, you know, we will find everyone.

[Adelie]

Okay, so it's a deterrence mechanism.

[Dr. Jade McGlynn]

Yeah, I'd say so. I think as well, it's just, you know, I mean, it's part of the broader framing inside Russia of the idea of people who are pro Ukrainian as traitors to the Russian nation. And again, it kind of builds into what we describe as the myths rather than the narratives.

[Adelie]

And these occupied TV channels, are they new channels that were created by Russia when the occupation started? Did they take over local newsrooms, turned local reporters, convince them by force or by just persuasion to propagate that narrative? Or are they people that were sent in to run these news stations?

[Dr. Jade McGlynn]

So in a weird way, my answer is sort of like all of the above, because they did send people in, of course, and you had people like Malkovich, who was pretty much responsible for setting up like a lot of the propaganda in the occupied territory, the sort of state entrepreneur figure. And they did take over local media, particularly in Mariupol. Of course, Donetsk and Luhansk is a slightly different situation because they already had their sort of what we could very loosely describe as media agencies set up. So it's a bit of a combination in general. They used the kind of Crimea approach. They took over a lot of. Even if they didn't keep the same name, in some cases they did. But even if they didn't keep the same name, in a lot of cases they took over the kind of infrastructure of existing media that existed before. And some people were willing to collaborate, most people weren't. Then there was a big campaign very similar to how RT used to function essentially in the west in terms of recruiting very young journalists and offering them quite senior roles for good salaries. So like appealing to people's desire to get on in their career.

[Adelie]

It looks like a legitimate job, it looks like an exciting opportunity and you tap into that. And also would the branding have changed since the beginning of the occupation or for the viewer, would it have been like a more subtle transition to new hosts, new language that kind of slowly infuses in people's mind? Or would they have seen like a radical change in terms of how the news is presented and even the TV station itself?

[Dr. Jade McGlynn]

I mean there would have been a radical change in how the news is presented. But in order to answer your question, it's difficult because I've been doing a lot of interviews, my monograph of people who, who lived under occupation and it's just been such an important reminder of how differently different people experience occupation depending sometimes even on their location within Mariupol, let alone, you know, I mean in Mariup obviously there's this huge gap where you just don't have any connection. You have no connection to the outside world. You know, there was no media, there was just copies of so evening news like a so called DNR publication and loudspeakers. So you know, and I think then Internet connection depends where you were in the city. But it seemed to reappear around the end of May 2022. That's one specific example. Obviously places like maybe Melitoplo or Berchansk, where there was not something like the siege or places, you know, like Kupyansk, which fell very quickly without much fighting. They had a very different experience, let's say than Izum, even though they're similar areas. So it differs, it differs depending on where I can't kind of Give you a very high quality answer quickly.

[Adelie]

Yes, I'm sure you're still in the middle of your research, so I've not drawn all the conclusions from your research yet. Well, that's a fascinating look at what goes on in the occupied territories. And to some extent I really wish I spoke Russian to be able to listen to it myself and be able to tell the differences. I know you have to dash very soon. Do you want maybe to run us through the latest resistance updates?

[Dr. Jade McGlynn]

Sure, definitely. So there were 14 events between 27 April and 6 May. A lot more focus this time on things that were happening inside Russia, but often from groups that are associated with the occupied territory. So we're also seeing that sort of slight, I don't want to say borderlessness because you still have to go through filtration if you want to get to Russia from the occupied territory. But to a certain extent is that I also, and I can't prove this, but my hypothesis is that just the sheer success of the middle strike campaigns mean that within Zaporizhzhia, I mean, last night we saw Luhansk areas, in Luhansk burning, you know, against the air defence systems, against the logistics, against the command bases. I think that focus, that strategic shift towards the occupied territories and disrupting the kind of Russian command which is obviously very vertical, has probably then encouraged a shift in similar organizations attentions towards, okay, getting the coordinates, which was already a huge focus to the relevant parts of the Ukrainian armed forces for their middle strikes, and also towards, okay, well, let's see what we can do in Russia. And bluntly as well, it's quite a tense time at the minute in Russia. It wasn't a very resilient social fabric I would suggest, but it does feel to be fraying in certain areas. So that's my hypothesis, but I can't prove that. And if I could, then I couldn't talk about it publicly anyway. So it's sort of pointless. So it's just my opposite. But yes, in terms of the event, so four of the kind of key events that happened in the occupied territory of this period, there was one in Sievierodonetsk which was about kind of destroying some of the Russian agitational material as they're obviously looking to the occupied territories for greater recruitment and mobilization potential. Then around Enerhadar, somebody blew up the office of Novoross Telecom, so New Russia Telecoms, like a play on Novorossiya, and essentially the Internet operator for occupied Zaporizhzhia in particular. So again Disrupting, I suppose, the communication signals. There was the destruction of a Kamas vehicle. So there's kind of big trucks that you see in Luhansk. And then in Donetsk there was the destruction of a bus of Russian own military volunteers. And that's interesting because Russia does rely, obviously it's not to the scale that Ukraine is able to rely on, but Russia does have quite a developed ecosystem of military volunteers of ordinary Russians, basically, who are helping to bring cars, you know, to bring drones. It's very similar to the Ukrainian side. It's just not the same level, certainly relative to their population advantage. And, you know, tensions, particularly between the army and the army doing things, or like the senior, higher up people doing things, like the banning of telegram or the blocking of telegram is the most obvious one. But there have been others, for example, blocking volunteers from being able to deliver civilian cars to the front line, which really annoyed all the soldiers. And then you have this divide. So that's an interesting. It's quite a strategic attack, I would suggest, from Mariupol.

[Adelie]

Resistance.

[Dr. Jade McGlynn]

Mariupol Sprotip. And Mariupol Sprotip also did a very interesting example, which is because, of course, there are collaborators and Mariuposporativ does focus quite a lot, actually, on collaborators. And it basically hacked and then released a database of people who, around Pokrovsk, have been helping the Russians. And it plays quite an important kind of deterrent role, or that's how they would describe it. It's kind of not my place as a British person to have too strong a view either way. But their view is it plays an important deterrent role that these people think that, you know, they can't get away with it. And if they're comfortable doing that, they should be comfortable with people knowing that they're doing that. Yeah. And of course, we saw the very interesting example of a Ukrainian soldier masquerading as a Russian soldier and telling students, don't sign up because basically we'll kill you all, I think, made quite a lot of headlines. And also shows, I mean, there are still often people talk about Russia as if it's just not possible to send messages in there or get in there. But it's actually a lot easier than you would think.

[Adelie]

Troy is Victory Day and we've been reporting a lot on the parade, the pseudo ceasefire. Was it won? Was it not one? Was it violated? Is there anything from your perspective, that you want to leave us with ahead of tomorrow?

[Dr. Jade McGlynn]

Is it simply that Russia, and in particular the Russian Military Historical Society, has poured an incredible Budget into, you know, restoring World War II monuments and pretending that people weren't allowed to celebrate Victory Day when it's under Ukraine. So it's going to be a big propaganda mess. But I myself am heading further east in the Baltics to see victory parades. So obviously they're not allowed in the Baltics, but the Russians helpfully put them on on the other side of certain rivers. So you can see them from.

[Adelie]

From the other bank. Yes.

[Dr. Jade McGlynn]

So I'll let you know, I'll update you. But yeah, so that's. I'm heading off now.

[Adelie]

All right, thank you as ever, for these insights. It's so fascinating to be able to peek on the other side in the occupied territories and have a good trip to the Baltics then.

[Dr. Jade McGlynn]

Thank you. Bye bye.

[Adelie]

Yes, that's. That was Jade on her way to the Baltic countries, ready to watch tomorrow's parade from the other side of the river, which may be indeed cold. I don't know.

[David Knowles]

Yeah, Occupy tv. Wow, Fascinating stuff. Thanks, Jade. Brilliant. And we'll start with a suit soon.

[Adelie]

Another word from Jade, because she asked me to convey a message that she forgot during our conversation. She wanted to give a shout out to Jenny, a viewer and listener to the podcast who recognized her and approached her in a cafe in Kiev. So, hi, Jenny. It's always lovely to meet our listeners and our viewers now, and especially when it's completely out of the blue and when we get recognized, which is a very odd experience, I will say it

[David Knowles]

does feel a little bit odd, but no, thank you, Jennifer. Thanks, Jade. Thanks. Ads. Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's name your price tool for years now. With the name your price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit progressive.com find a rate that works for you with the name your price tool. Progressive Casualty Insurance company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Right, let's go to our final thoughts. I'll kick off Yulia Severodenko, Ukraine's private minister. She says that foreign nationals who are already fighting or planning to join Ukraine's defence forces to fight will now have a simpler process of obtaining temporary residence in Ukraine. She says the government is now refining the procedures for processing their documents. A temporary residence permit will be issued for the full duration of the contract, plus an additional six months after it ends. She says this decision is intended to remove unnecessary bureaucracy and create clearer, fairer conditions for all people who are defending Ukraine. Interesting move, that. And then just finally for me, Francis, you remember he. Well, you remember Francis.

[Adelie]

Do you remember Francis?

[David Knowles]

Of course we do. Francis, you'll remember he was at the Oxford Union last night at a debate there. He spoke for the proposition. It was the. This. This House says we would rather go to war with Russia than lose Ukraine. I think that was the title anyway. He spoke for the proposition alongside Ambassador Daniel Fried and Olesia Kremichuk of the Ukraine Institute of London against the former Slovak Prime Minister Janogorski, Scott Hurton and the journalist Peter Hitchens. Pleased to report that after a fierce debate, Franco's team won with a 2/3 majority. We hope to bring you some of that debate in a future episode. Well done. Well done, Francis.

[Adelie]

Yeah, I'm surprised he won.

[David Knowles]

Well, exactly. I wonder if the others got a word in edgeways, but we'll have to wait for the edit. Where are you going to leave folks this weekend?

[Adelie]

Yes, I'm linking to the show notes to a BBC article about a very underreported aspect of the war, something we don't really think about, which is the issue of surrogacy, pregnancy and actually the number of women becoming surrogate mothers. So carrying another couple's child in order to make money as a result of the war and displacement and the poverty that that leads to has been attracted trend for the last four years. So much so that Ukraine's parliament is considering a bill that would introduce stricter oversight of the surrogacy industry and ban access to foreigners. That's how much it's increased. They make up 95% of the intended parents. And that proposal has widespread support across Ukraine's parliament. And the BBC piece tells the story of this woman who is 22, carrying the child of a Chinese couple. She was displaced From Bakhmut at 17 after having house was completely shelled. She's now in Kiev with her partner. They've not been able to secure steady jobs. They've got a child, they haven't got a lot of means. It's been really hard to make end meets. And so she's become a surrogate mother. And she says literally the war has led her to surrogacy, which she gets a little bit over 12,000 pounds for each pregnancy that she does. That's double the average salary in Ukraine. So real financial incentive. And obviously the bill aims to regulate an industry that's accused of turning reproduction into a commodity, exploiting poor, vulnerable women. So very much an aspect of the war that we don't really think about. The other aspect to that is that often parents who have relied on surrogate mothers will change their minds and abandon the babies. And so that leads to many babies just being abandoned at birth in Ukraine. Ukraine. So more news from childhood in a country at war and its many, many fallout consequences. So that's my main final thought. But I've got two small things for the listeners. We are still conducting this survey about the future of the show and Ukraine. The latest. We want to hear your thoughts. I will put the link to the survey in the show notes. A lot of you have been writing to us saying you can't find the link. So the link is in the show notes. That's in the description to the episode that you can find on YouTube or wherever you listen to the audio version of the podcast. So usually you need to click on more. So you need to click on the description, click on more and you will see all of the links where we put all of the articles that we reference during the show as well as the link to the survey. If you have written to [e-mail] I will reply to you this afternoon sending you the link, but that's where you can find it. I won't be able to reply to every single listener if you all start emailing us asking for the link. So do click on more so we can hear your thoughts. We are very eager to see what you have to say. And finally, note from me, I will be moderating a conversation tonight at the Ukrainian Institute with Ukrainian Soldier who is also an acclaimed poet. His name is Artur Dron. It is at 6 tonight, so if you're in London and if you're there, come and say hello. It'll be a pleasure to meet you.

[David Knowles]

Your mission, Adelie, and I choose to accept it for you, is to get the phrase po de chagrin into your your talk tonight.

[Adelie]

Okay, challenge accepted. I shall report back next week.

[Dr. Jade McGlynn]

Week.

[David Knowles]

Very good. Right, that's us folks. So very quick chat about tomorrow. If it all goes noisy we will probably do an emergency podcast. So do keep your eye out for that. If it's just normal as this is not going to be normal because we don't think anything very impressive is going to happen on Red Square. We won't. But do keep your eye out. If it all goes big and bendy, we will see you tomorrow. Otherwise, if you're able to wherever you are, in whatever circumstances. I hope you can have a good weekend. We'll be back on Monday. Thanks for your company. I hope you can join us then. Thanks Adelie.

[Adelie]

Thanks Tom. Thanks everyone. Jack, will you. The latest is an original podcast from the Telegraph created by David Knowles. Every episode featuring us in the studio maps and battlefield footage is now available to watch on our YouTube channel. Subscribe at www.YouTube.com.crainethelatest. there's a link in the description. If you appreciate our work, please consider following Ukraine the Latest on your preferred podcast app. Leave us a review as it helps others find the show and please also share it with those who may not be aware we exist. You can also get in touch directly and ask questions or give comments by emailing ukrainepodelegraph.co.uk we promise we continue to read every message email even if we can't reply to you all. You can also contact us on X. You'll find our handles in the description. As ever, we're especially interested to hear where you're listening from around the world. And finally, to support our work and stay on top of all of our Ukraine news, analysis and dispatches from the ground, please subscribe to the Telegraph. You can get one month for free, then two months for just £1 at www.telegraph.com Ukraine the latest Ukraine the latest was today, produced by Rachel Porter in audio and Sophie O' Sullivan in video. The Executive Editor is Francis Dernley. The series creator is David Knowles.

[David Knowles]

My name is David Knowles. Thank you all for listening.

[Dr. Jade McGlynn]

Goodbye.

[David Knowles]

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